Dr. Conspiracy
Is Obama Citizenship Denial a delusion?
The DSM defines a delusion as:
A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person’s culture or subculture.
Canadian journalist Robert Sibley has said that conspiracy theory is “a nihilistic vortex of delusion and superstition that negates reality itself.”
I invested some time the last couple of nights over at Politico.com hacking and slashing the onslaught of birthers (an investment that was about as profitable as the shares of Charter Communications I bought). There was this one person, that was really odd. I would post a citation with the words “natural born citizen” in it and he would reply that what I said had nothing to do with “natural born citizen”. We went back and forth on this several times. He just couldn’t see the words. This is an example of a belief “firmly sustained despite…incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.” Was the guy delusional?
Those of us who study birthers and other citizenship deniers know that some of the arguments against Obama’s eligibility to be president sound plausible on the surface. “Obama’s COLB is a forgery because two digital document experts have sworn under oath that it is.” One has to dig a little to know that neither has even given a real name, much less sworn anything. Nevertheless, when web sites like this provide “obvious proof or evidence to the contrary,” we don’t convert anyone (that I know of).
So are the birthers delusional? Perhaps some are, but not in general. The reason is that there is a birther subculture that they live in, consisting of web sites that provide alternative views of reality, that supply skilled propaganda, that tie OCD to patriotism, that create a sense of urgency, and most important provide a sense of community.
Belief that the earth is only 6,000 years old or that Houdini will speak from the dead or that Barack Obama was born in Kenya are not delusions. They are just wrong.
[I am not a medical doctor or a psychiatrist. My doctorate in conspiracy theories is self conferred.]
Thanks forall the work you do (sounds like one of those birther letters) on this issue. However having spent severals months following this back & forth i just cant believe this is not delusional !!
Yes i accept that most pple that believe these theories do so because they want to believe something, anything bad against POTUS Obama & this helps them along those lines. But it still borders on delusions– when you cant beleive the most reasonable explanation but prefer to believe far fetched theories.
Like the believe that a black African in 1961 would return home with a white woman (the very object of the oppression) & have her have achild in an hospital there !!!! its so out of this world i cant even imagine where it comes from except that most pple that believe this wherent born or where too young to know what travelling was like then.
Also what would be Obama snr’s reason for taking his pregnant wife back to Africa in 1961 ?? To show her off or what ?? Remember he was a stuent who was sponored by others to US for his studies ??
I think its hatred of POTUS Obama (not necessarily related to his colour) that is driving the delusion.
I guess the birthers think he was anxious for introduce his new wife to his first wife, since his American bride would be so happy to learn that she was wife #2.
I still can’t figure out how she ends up in giving birth in Mombasa, given that the best hospitals and the only international airport (at the time) were in Nairobi, and Grandma Sarah lived in Nyongoma Kogelo.
its because you get it: he used African juju to transport everyone down to Mombasa & back home. you know African juju is very powerful, it can turn a white woman into a black man & vice versa. all this teleporting would have been a simple case of killing 29 white goats, 13 black sheep, 8 grey doves, 2 lions & 1800 ants & wala everyone is beside the bed in Mobamsa.
Though there was a problem as its said African juju cant travel over water so Hawaiian juju must have been mixed in to effect the flight
Don’t let Orly see this!
This story might be a place to add some comments about the “delusional” things I see from time to time. This morning I was prompted to visit a blog called Actions by T and an article there titled: Obamas Real Birth Certificate. The information supposedly came from a “password protected” area of the Texas Darlin web site.
This article from October 2008 says:
But if Republicans had this document, whey didn’t they use it? If Obama were adopted in Indonesia, it wouldn’t result in the sealing of his records in the United States, and of course they aren’t sealed because Obama obtained and published a birth certificate.
The article is full of other fanciful, but false ideas.
We did it !!! we (Africans) used our juju to blind all the R from seeing what they had in there hands. !!!!
You know like when some pple wanted to catch Jesus & had him surrounded but he just slipped through there hands & they didnt know how !!!! (we did that too)
That why we’re not worried, our juju is strong & the force is with us (just like with Luke skywalker, we did that too)
Here’s a blog for you. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-me-google.html
I had never seen or heard of this blog until someone promoted it on Plains Radio.com Now, I’ve seen it all.
Lame Cherry is on our list of blogs (see the bookmarks tab up top). Try Rosettasister if you’re interested in that sort of thing.
I must say, that was a totally confusing article.
I try not to read too much of this stuff, but the insanity oozing from this one was nearly palpable. I’ll check out Rosettasister as well.
Well, I don’t believe Obama was born in Kenya, I don’t believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, I don’t believe Houdini will speak from the grave, I don’t believe the COLB was a forgery, and for the most part, I don’t believe that I belong to any subculture, subgroup, or community that are called ‘birthers’.
I do believe, as Obama believes, that he was born with dual-citizenship. Therefore, IN MY OPINION, that precludes him from being a Natural Born Citizen at the time of his birth. Now – I could be wrong. I know you are all gasping at that statement. But by the same token, you all could be wrong in your assumption that his US Citizen mother and US soil birth makes him a Natural Born Citizen. What does the fact that I question the legal meaning of Natural Born Citizen make me a ‘birther’?
I do believe there is no clear cut meaning of what the Constitution is referring to as Natural Born Citizen; therefore, it needs to be clarified one way or another.
If you believe the Constitution is fully on his side and he is truly a Natural Born Citizen, why wouldn’t the ‘non-Birthers’ want this issue put to rest? For that matter, why wouldn’t Obama want it put to rest?
Again, I could be wrong, but the only reason I can see for Obama followers to fight this tooth and nail, as I see happening on this blog, would be because you have some question as to what side the Constitution will come down on. And if you have questions – it needs to be resolved. If you don’t have any questions – why give it any credence by discussing it?
I know – I’m just whackadoo!
“If you believe the Constitution is fully on his side and he is truly a Natural Born Citizen, why wouldn’t the non-Birthers’ want this issue put to rest? For that matter, why wouldn’t Obama want it put to rest?”
Considering that people on the Obamacrimes site are already claiming the Hawai’i archives have probably been broken into and a forged vault copy inserted, how would one put it to rest?
Your opinion on the definition is as valid as anyone else’s – except for the twelve SCOTUS justices who’ve chosen not to get involved.
Chester A Arthur’s parents were still British citizens at the time of his birth. The mother of Herbert Hoover’s VP (I forget his name) was a citizen of a Native American nation which meant she wasn’t a US citizen under the laws of the day.
Charles Curtis. However, his mother was only part Indian and she may well have been a citizen. I asked some reference sources about this and have not gotten an answer that satisfies me as to the rigor of the answer. The answer was that she was a citizen.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/little-known-natural-born-citizens/
Hoover’s VP was Charles Curtis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Curtis
He was born in the Kansas Territory in 1860 (8 years before the ratification of the 14th Amendment).
I would make a clear distinction, as you do, between “birthers” — those who believe impossible or highly implausible things about where Barack Obama was born, and those who have an opinion about the definition of “natural born citizen” that makes Obama ineligible under the Constitution.
The latter is not an irrational opinion. I strongly feel that it is “fringe” (minority) opinion, at least among lawmakers and the courts. I strongly feel that is an opinion that would not prevail, should it ever be adjudicated. I believe some “made up facts” are cited by some of its proponents, but a cogent argument can be made (as Leo C. Donofrio has done). I do think this position gets a little nutty when its proponents say Chester A. Arthur tried to “cover up” his father’s emigration status (Arthur’s father was a British citizen when Chester was born).
Sally, thank you for your clear comment.
The reason that this issue was not “put to rest” before the election is this you are expressing a minority view; historically it has been assumed that “natural born” means “born in the USA” and that the citizenship status of the parents or possibility of dual citizenship is irrelevant. Obama wasn’t the only candidate with this issue — for example, Bill Richardson’s mother is a Mexican citizen; Ralph Nader is the son of Lebanese immigrants. The Constitution uses the phrase “natural-born” without any reservation or proviso.
That there is potential ambiguity in a law does not mean that the courts are required to rule on it. IF there had been a pre-existing Supreme Court ruling that said that individuals in Obama’s circumstances were not “natural born citizens” — then Obama would have been bound by that ruling.
But in the absence of any ruling by an American court, then the presumption is that Obama is eligible. The issue could have been litigated by someone with standing to raise it at an appropriate time, but it wasn’t.
I think that rival candidates would have had standing to seek a determination BEFORE the election — the time to do so would have been before the nomination. Hillary Clinton could have gone to court before the Democratic Convention seeking to enjoin Nancy Pelosi from certifying Obama as eligible — and the case probably would have been heard.
But I think Clinton would have lost that case, and since she and her husband are Yale law grads I think they clearly knew that.
The reason that it is a loser of a case is that there is no case law in American jurisprudence that supports that argument. Donofrio’s arguments, citing back to de Vattel, may look appealing to a lay person — but any lawyer would know that they have zero value as legal precedent — he might as well be arguing based on his interpretation nursery rhymes or ancient Sumerian law.
In the absence of legal precedent, the “natural born citizen” clause is going to be interpreted broadly, rather than restrictively, by any court that ever considers a relevant claim. There is just no good reason to do otherwise, because the words themselves do not apply any limitation. So there simply would be no legal grounding to read in additional requirements that are not stated in the words used in the Constitution.
There simply isn’t any way around this. Again, I understand the appeal to lay people, but you’ll note that no reputable or established lawyer or scholar has argued or advanced anything along the lines of Donofrio’s argument.
The US Supreme Court did cite de Vattel in Dred Scott v Sandford and the dissenting opinion in US v. Wong Kim Ark did also.
Actually I believe de Vattel is quoted only in a concurring opinion and a dissent in Dred Scott.
But my point is that the quotation of a source like de Vattel not constitute legal authority. There is a difference in jurisprudence between “quoting” a source and “citing” a source.
Again, this a mistake that lay people often make, because they don’t understand the hierarchy that courts work under. It is permissible to quote from any literary source for rhetorical purposes — for example, from time to time the Justices of the Court quote Shakespeare., as do lawyers in their briefs… but Shakespeare is not precedent nor authority.
It is no accident that quotes from de Vattel or Shakespeare or other rhetorical flourishes are more likely to crop up in concurring opinions or dissents, as the Justices feel more free to wax poetic when they know they are not themselves writing an opinion that can be cited as precedent for anything else.
(A dissent or concurring opinion can be useful for gaining insight into an opinion, but those opinions also have no precedential value — only the majority opinion of the court can be cited as precedent in future cases).
Can Denofrio quote from de Vattel in his briefs? Certainly. He can recite poetry if he wants. Or quote from the Bible. Whatever.
Can the Supreme Court rely on de Vattel to deviate from the implications of Wong Kim Ark or Perkins v. Elg? Absolutely not. It has no value whatsoever as precedent and because it does not reflect the decision of a court it is not proper legal authority.
Even Vattel acknowledges British common law which assigns citizenship based on place of birth (Jus Soli). He just, without more argument, seems to consider such an approach inferior. Sadly enough for him the founders and the courts since then disagreed.
For that matter, why wouldn’t Obama want it put to rest?”
This seems to be much better. Let the detractors waste their efforts on something that isn’t there. Then expose them for their silliness. Obama is a great strategist. Just look at Rush Limbaugh and the RNC who predictably were nudged by Obama into a no-win situation.
And even if Obama were to show another certificate, the doubters will just make up yet another reason why he should be removed as legitimate president. See, this is not really about the constitution, it’s all about Obama’s policies and some people’s dislikes. However that hardly gives them legal standing. It certainly does not give them much public respect.
Nothing would “put it to rest”.
If Obama obtained and produced a so-called “vault copy” of his birth certificate, the birthers would label that a forgery as well.
If his attorneys agreed to allow a court to render a decision, that would be used as a justification for depositions and discovery, and the minute that Obama’s lawyers objected to anything, no matter how far-afield, his detractors would loudly denounce him for a “cover up”.
(Already you see this happening in California, with attempts to subpena his records for Occidental –the next thing would be to go after high school records, records at Columbia U & Harvard, property records for all the places Obama or members of the Dunham family ever lived, attempts to get Obama’s passport file opened, depositions and interrogatories seeking his entire travel history, etc.)
It’s not going to stop. These cases are fueled by people who are out to destroy him and they don’t fight fair.
It’s been pointed out her previously that EVERY President is sued hundreds of times by lunatics and by bored Federal prisoners who figure that gettign a day trip to a Federal court for a hearing beats another day in general population.
Bush 43 for example was sued by a woman who claimed he was repeatedly breaking into her house at night and raping her.
I think I already saw a case where Obama’s being sued for “falsely” claiming to be African-American when he’s actually biracial. I think Beyonce Knowles is named as a co-defendant in that suit.
As I understand the general policy is not to respond to any frivolous lawsuits because it simply encourages more.
The birther suits are being treated exactly like the ones demanding Obama turn over the alien autopsy records.
It is being used in the interpretation of “original intent”. Essentially all of the arguments (at least the ones that avoid plain misreading or logical fallacy) put forward against Obama’s eligibility on account of his dual citizenship at birth are about original intent of the Constitution (or in the case of Wong, original intent of the 14th amendment).
When I did my historical investigation in to the genesis of the “born in Kenya” story, I read many comments on blogs just prior to June, 2008. Many were then saying that the release of a birth certificate would settle everything. In June Obama released a birth certificate, and the rest is history.
“original intent” wouldn’t be in issue as to anything that was already resolved by the majority in the Wong Kim Ark case. The Court doesn’t go fishing for “original intent” in every single case — they get to that AFTER evaluating precedent if the question is still unresolved for them. And then they are going to look first to the writings of the framers -de Vattel wasn’t one of them, he’s just one of many writers they would have been familiar with. So Donofrio’s argument is that the framers were influenced by de Vattel — but they were influenced by a lot of things. British common law and Blackstone’s Commentary would be given more weight.
But Wong Kim really looked rather exhaustively at the question, and there is a very practical limit as to how far you can go down the “original intent” path when applying the law to an African American President. (For a real stomach-turning experience, try actually reading the Dred Scott opinion). Obviously the framers of the Constitution were thinking “citizen” meant “white male” — and just as clearly we have to read that provision in light of the 14th Amendment and contemporary standards.
As far as I know, Donofrio could not come up with a single US court decision to bootstrap a dual citizen or foreign-born father exception onto the phrase “natural born citizen” — and de Vattel’s comments are focused on jurisdictions that followed a jus sanguinis approach to citizenship, when it is clear that the US has followed the British jus soli approach, so de Vattel is inapt to begin with.
And, logically, it is just a dumb idea: It gives foreign powers a veto over who Americans can choose to be president.
If Monaco passes a law saying all U.S. citizens (and their offspring) are automatically citizens of Monaco, under Donofrio’s theory, who can become president of the U.S.?
And even if Obama were to show another certificate, the doubters will just make up yet another reason why he should be removed as legitimate president.
Exactly. Let us not forget that a great many of the people devoted to the COLB conspiracy have simply moved from one conspiracy to the next: from closet Muslim to Sinclair (remember the CAACR ad?), From Rezko plots to Odinga plots, from “Whitey” tape to API tape…and on and on. C Wells, Rosetta’s Sister, and Lame Cherry, for example, began their Obama witchhunts early last year.
Doc et al,
Would the Framers have deemed a child born on US soil to visiting foreign parents (be they legal or illegal aliens) a ‘natural born citizen’? Did the 14th Amendment alter or merely confirm that child’s status?
Curious,
Hitandrun
Just a happy little note: Hollisrer vs Soetoro has been dismissed, court orders Hemenway to show cause as to why he should not being sanctioned!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13033216/Dismissed
we need more sanctions!
“Therefore, IN MY OPINION, that precludes him from being a Natural Born Citizen at the time of his birth.”
Part of living under the rule of law is accepting that one’s opinion will not always prevail.
“If you believe the Constitution is fully on his side and he is truly a Natural Born Citizen, why wouldn’t the non-Birthers’ want this issue put to rest?”
The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently denied the birthers’ petitions and the Chief Justice swore Obama into office (twice!). The issue has been put to rest.
Obama Birth Announcement Forged
http://home.att.net/~south.tower/ForgedObama1.htm
I can’t tell. Is that article supposed to be a joke or is it serious?
Some of Mr. Carlson’s other work:
http://home.att.net/~south.tower/911TrickObama1.htm
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Got a question for the “Doc”: do you now or have you ever been in the employ of the US gov’t? Who pays for this website? Just askin’…
I know that the Pentagon spends BILLIONS (with a B) each year paying off distractionary bloggers to smoke and mirror truth seekers. How do I know? I READ THE PENTAGON’S OWN WHITE PAPERS NOT SOME HACK ON A BLOG. They list an ever growing list of keywords and phrases that this site is FRAUGHT WITH to include the title!
Why doesn’t the ‘Good Doctor’ show Barry’s book where he admits to being in Pakistan when it was ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS FOR ANY US CITIZEN TO BE THERE.
Debunk THAT!
Or why don’t you ‘debunk’ how Indonesia in the 1960’s DID NOT ALLOW DUAL CITIZENSHIP for students?
Debunk Saetoro’s own handwriting where he lists his religion as Muslim when in school.
Now YOU bring the comments…
How silly.
First Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship for anyone, whether a student or not. US Law does not allow a child to renounce his citizenship. Ergo, Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.
Second, even a cursory glance is enough to show that the record is not Obama´s handwriting, and why should an entry in a school enrollment book be written by a student anyhow? Duh. I think you are the first person I´ve encountered with this particular crazy idea.
Making up facts again? Shame on you
Translation: I cannot rebut the information so instead lets try to impeach the creator of this information. This is all public information my confused friend.
Simple, you are making up facts. Pakistan was under travel advisory
Don’t you feel foolish about being misled by your ‘friends’? Perhaps you should chose them more wisely before you expose yourself to public ridicule?
Simple, it’s a lie.
Pakistan was under a travel advisory…
Don’t you feel a bit foolish now for repeating the nonsense which the good Doc has already addressed in full guts and glory.
Oh a cursory glance eh? You a handwriting expert?…that’s what I thought. Notice how the Doc tries to spin my comment as if I suggested Barry was a dual citizen.
No, he was and still is an Indonesian citizen, or maybe you guys missed the fact that his mother remarried?-an Indonesian man named Lolo Saetoro. So little Barry moved to Indonesia and subsequently was adopted and went to school as a citizen of Indonesia.
Next, I notice YOU DID NOT DENY WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT, ‘DOCTOR’! And I’m rebutting my tail off, because as I said before, I don’t believe false-opposition gatekeeper blogger hacks, I read the PENTAGON’S OWN DOCUMENTS!
I read ‘Obama’s’ book! I read mainline history, not watch it on cable!
Public ridicule? Are you serious?
Did you even proofread your first comment? You admitted he was in school in Indonesia while simultaneously admitting the country doesn’t allow for dual citizenship!
You can’t have it both ways, Jack!
A 3rd grade level reader can EASILY see the paradox of your comments. Your parroted propaganda is only misleading the ignorant mislead-able.
So if you want to talk about ridicule, you have an entire website where you practice obvious hackery and do not refute ANY mainline Pentagon, White House, or other government documents!
You invite an enormous amount of ridicule onto yourself!
You are ridiculous, dude. Keep collecting that government paycheck, troll!
OK, OK, I got one for you guys. I know I will love your response.
Question: Why would Saetoro hide his college transcripts?
One caveat though: you can’t say “Obama’s” grades are now a matter of Nat’l Security.
The TV talking heads always boast of this Constitutional teacher, but yet, he WILL NOT RELEASE HIS TRANSCRIPTS!
What is he hiding in these records?
The BC, sure; he has a right to privacy.
But his Collegiate Records?
*can’t wait for the (witch)doctor’s comments*
I’d like to see the evidence that President Obama was adopted by his step father. All I’ve ever seen is a handwritten notation in a school record that listed his last name as Soetoro. I’ve never been shown adoption papers of any kind. I know children who went by the last name of their stepfather, but were never legally adopted and therefore the name they used was never their legal name.
College records? That one is easy.
FERPA: Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act
In a nutshell, educational records, including transcripts, are considered private records. Much like a birth certificate.
School directories are exempt from FERPA. Maybe you could go to Oxy, Columbia, and Harvard and look at old copies?
Release of college transcripts is strickly an option. If I were Obama, considering the climate and madness of you birthers that would be a bad idea. I could see you clowns camped out on the door step of some 80 year old ex proffesor who taught Obama 30 years ago. Idiots from World Net Daily would put words in their mouths for their own explotation. Thanks Mr. President fro sparing as many people who knew you when.
Does OCD stand for Obama Certificate Denial?
Here’s Press Secretary Gibbs’ standard unresponsive response to Lester Kinsolving’s clear request for the “long form” Certificate:
http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0509/birth_certificate_question_e8528fd4-ea6f-451f-a236-76cc4b65b29d.html
Enjoy!
Hitandrun
Yes you can since you do not have to be an Indonesian citizen to go to their schools.
What the facts show is that Obama attended school in Indonesia and that Indonesian law does not allow for Obama to have gained Indonesian citizenship. Furthermore, even if Obama had acquired Indonesian citizenship, he nor his parents could have denounced his natural born US citizenship status.
Them are the facts.
Lacking evidence and reason one resorts to ad hominems. Well done.
Demon Cleaner, I’m not a handwriting expert. Are you? That’s what I thought. But the difference in style is totally different, and no expertise is needed. However, if you would like to press the issue SOME EVIDENCE please.
As I said before, Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship (this is discussed on this web site in the article Hollister v. Indonesian Citizenship Law) and the US does not allow expatriation of children, therefore, Obama could never become a citizen of Indonesia. Further, there is no evidence Obama was ever adopted by Lolo Soetoro, but in any case, Indonesian law prevents a child from acquiring the citizenship of his parent through adoption when over the age of 5 unless there is a procedure in the country of current citizenship for renunciation of said citizenship, which there is not. That’s the famous Indonesian Law No. 62.
I deny working for the government. All you have to do is ask.
What Pentagon document are you reading? Got a page number? And exactly what did you get from Obama’s book – page number please.
The idea that only Indonesian citizens could attend school is just something the denialists made up. If you would like to provide us a Pentagon document (or any other documentation) that says it’s true we can discuss it further. In the Hollister lawsuit Berg cites a section from the Indonesian Constitution, but if you read it there’s nothing that supports the claim. The Indonesian Constitution does say that Indonesians have a right to an education, but it never excludes education for non citizens.
I am fascinated, though, by all these references to Pentagon documents, White House or Government Documents. Please give us some specifics.
They are protected by US law.
Next. Geez… are you sure you have even researched these issues?
The COLB is sufficient.
Nuff said.
Still feeling annoyed that it was you who was being misled and parroted propaganda?
How ironic…
It’s not national security. College transcripts are restricted by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) of 1974.
I use it for “Obama Citizenship Denial” personally.
Maybe it’s worth an article: “White House spokesman confirms 400,000 people doubt Obama’s birth certificate”.
I wonder how many of these 400,000 are as ill informed as some of the people posting here recently and who are making a lot of unsupported and disproven claims and statements
Exactly. It seems that some have confused Obama using his stepfather’s last name with an official name change.
Doesn’t matter which Act you want to cite. Fact is, he is the most public of public officials, and when the people demand it, he should abide.
All the controversy would stop if he did.
Cops will tell you, if you got nothin’ to hide, don’t hide anything.
Obama Bin Lyin’
The false left/right paradigm is fast coming to an end. Obama/Saetoro is controlled by the banksters…the same banksters that pay for this disinformation website!
INFOWARS.COM
PRISONPLANET.TV
OBAMACRIMES.COM
african American on the bc? Blacks were called by the N word that rhymes with heroes in 1961.
Total forgery, but are we really surprised by someone who claimed he’d end the war & never hire a lobbyist?
The obama cabinet is filled with lobbyists!
He’s worse than Bush ever could be, because he’s slicker. He said he’d close Gitmo, but who actually read the Executive Order besides me?
Lie after lie after lie.
Obama is the ultimate Communist in Chief.
Ron Paul got more military support than any other candidate.
We know what’s up.
That’s why the MIAC report and others claim that veterans are the number 1 target of DHS.
I say to obama and eric holder:
You want my guns?
COME AND TAKE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
…and still no refutation of gov’t involvement…
pathetic
It’s called constitutional rights, Tear.
No cop is going to search my home without showing me a warrant. I’m proud of my 4th amendment rights, and I won’t give them up.
For conservatives who so love the constitution, they sure seem willing to give up their constitutional rights if you ask them to.
The CIA save payroll $$ that way!
why did Michelle get disbarred in Illinois?
they put a black face on the new world order, now Black America become kool-aid drinkers like Jim Jones-Guyana!
Resist!
She is a criminal
you didn’t answer the question
you too failed to answer the question
He’s not a US citizen. Enough already. His mom was 18 when he was born. Had she been 19, he’d qualify for US citizenship, but missed it by a few months.
Is that nitpicking? Maybe, but I didn’t write the law, I just see Obama wipe his butt with it!
He said he’d end the war: LIE
He said he’d repeal the Patriot Act (I & II)LIE
He said he’d halt the CIA practice of secret arrest and detention known as RENDITION: LIE
Global warming is a myth!
Swine flu is a hoax!
America is being gutted by the NWO!
Time for the sleeping giant to awaken!!!!
*oer 100 million gun owners in america*
this ‘doctor’ and the entire site is a giant PSY-OP.
Our tax dollars at work for the Bilderbergers!
War is a Racket! Obama is a liar! The Federal Reserve is as federal as Federal Express! 14.8 trillion dollars taken since October!
America’s downfall is close at hand. Get off the blog and start preparing! Buy guns, grow gardens, filter your water! Stock up on supplements B4 Codex Alimentarius makes them illegal!
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
Ooh Ra!
I HEAR YA, DEVIL DOG!
Yes he did
Two wrongs
1. She was not disbarred but put on court ordered absence
2. She is not a criminal
Why is it that people libel others but fail to do the research that would show them to be wrong.
NBC: “Pakistan was under a travel advisory…”
And the advisory was that if you get your visa at the border, it’s only good for 30 days and can’t be extended. So if you want to stay longer, get your visa in advance.
So many errors, where do I start
1. Global warming is a well established fact
2. Swine flue is a well established fact
But are you not glad he did not repeal (yet) the unconstitutional acts of his predecessor until a full review has been finished?
In other words, Doc’s arguments are truthful and all you can do is trying to impugn him based on false assertions.
How sad… And you pretend to support the Constitution?
Man you sound quite paranoid and ill informed. How sad.
Perhaps you have more experience being interrogated by police than I do.
And our legally elected President 🙂 Of course, what you call a Communist, we call, a man of the people for the people.
This web site costs $7.95 a month. I went for the deluxe hosting plan. ROFL.
You are wrong. I am quite a distinct person from Doc. Although I wish I could do the depth and breadth of research he presents on this site.
I do appreciate the compliment though that you mistake me for the Doc.
As to Gordon, I have seen him post occasionally and can state unequivocally that he is not me.
Does it not bother you that you are wrong so often? Or have you gotten used to this?
The Birth Certificate lists the race of Obama’s FATHER as “African”. It would be pretty silly to call somebody born in Africa an “African American”.
Which government?
Resist what? That a black person is the legal president of our wonderful country and is set to do great things for our nation and our status in the world?
So far, the only kool aid drinkers seem to be those who present false information as facts. Such as that Michele Obama was disbarred, that US citizens were not allowed to travel to Pakistan etc.
Indeed, all to avoid admitting that Obama was born on US soil and thus per Constitution, a natural born citizen.
Hilarious… You are so clever with words.
USMC warrior:
Did that make you feel better?
Paranoia and guns. Often quite a lethal combination… Then again, Darwin was right.
Even the simple facts they get wrong. Well done Doc, another one ‘bites the dust’. Incomplete information, combined with a hatred of Obama, leads quite a few to make quite a fool of themselves.
She wasn’t.
As I said, you are too clever with words. How come is that sites like yours do not ask for donations…
So what happened, did our Demon friend whine to his buddies that his claims were ripped apart by those better/well informed about the issues?
The crowded he dragged over here certainly does not strengthen his case but it does help me understand what kind of people are included in those who want to remove a legally elected President using anti-constitutional actions.
Sad really.
And don’t forget the evil fluoride in the water. They are all out there to weaken you and submit you to a new world order of ‘healthy teeth’. Dentists like Orly would be out of work…
I guess you missed the 14 Amendment in your Civics class. Everybody born in the United States (except children of ambassadors, invading armies…) are citizens.
Yes, let’s hold him to his promises and end the war, repeal the patriot act and rendition. Of course, you first need to show what he promised and then show what he has and has not done so far.
Them nasty details… Don’t let the facts confuse you my dear compatriot
I guess if you were going post that, the article on delusional thinking is the appropriate place.
I hope you find the evidence and reasoning here compelling. But you see, with a real PSY-OP, you’d never be given the chance to say things like that. This, Tim, is what we call “Free Speech” and the articles are what we call “reasonable argument” and the information here is sourced and treated fairly as to context.
As for your tax dollars, you too can have a web site just like mine for $5.95 a month. The software is free. (Yes I said $7.95 in another article. They’ve lowered the price when you pay in advance.)
I saw him promise all that on the campaign trail
You guys are so weak.
COINTELPRO…
If global warming is “a well established fact”, where is scientific consensus? Fact is 1,000’s of climatologists have stated we are in a cooling period since sunspot activity has decreased. There’s a conspiracy theory for you hacks! The sun actually heats the planet!
Oh but you guys will say I wear a tinfoil hat because I believe in the sun!!!
And NO I’m not glad he hasn’t repealed the Patriot Act, you shill! And what’s to review, you mental giant? You admitted the Acts are UNCONSTITUTIONAL? That’s all you need to know!
You even know the definition of Unconstitutional? Do YOU need a review of civics class?
Pathetic! Man, the CIA needs to ramp up its blogger hiring practices.
Do you know the difference in a Voter and an Elector?
How do you keep all those personas straight, or are you MPD?
You know squat ‘doc’
And if by MPD you mean Massively Prostrating Doctor then, YES.
If you’re referring to a condition known for years now as Dissociative Identity Disorder, then you need to drop “The Idiot’s Guide to the DSM”, and upgrade since the DSM is in it’s 4th volume.
That’s Demon Cleaner, and I’m not your friend. I am your sworn enemy. Blog til your fingers bleed; blog til you speak in nothing but overwrought propagandist cliches; blog til it hurts…you can’t stop the tidal wave.
We’ll be coming for all the globalists and then THEY get to meet Big Bubba in the Penitentiary!
Like Wesley Snipes says in Blade, “…some muthaf*@ers always tryin’ to iceskate uphill…”
Legally elected? You ever hear of Diebold? ACORN? Didn’t ACORN try to re-register the entire Dallas Cowboys team…in Las Vegas?
Obama drips with crime. He lies about everything.
I’ll make it simple: all you folks who think he’s a great President, do me a favor:watch
THE OBAMA DECEPTION by Alex Jones and THEN come back to this site and discuss…
Until you do, you really haven’t looked at the facts.
Yea, I was just skating down that Saluda grade Monday…probably went right by your place on the way home.
Ah yes, Diebold. That company’s run by conservatives if memory serves me right. Some of the best info on vote tampering is here:
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
How many times I gotta tell you? He wasn’t born in the US!
And if you ask his sister(stepsister, whatever) Maya, he was born in a separate hospital than the one ole Barry says.
Which is it? Is his sister mentally deficient? Did she ‘misspeak’? Or is Barry mistaken about his birthplace?
Regarding the enslaving 14th Amendment I just know from whence the term 2nd Class Citizen originates (which by the way, I learned in civics class).
You can say Obama wasn’t born in the US until you’re blue in the face, but unless you have some evidence to back it up, you’re wasting your time and my time.
Maya Soetoro-Ng never said Obama was born at a different hospital. That’s just another denialist myth. It was popularized by Berg on his web site who distorted the story written by a child reporter.
You think it’s true? Document it for us.
You might enjoy my article: Where Obama was Born. Be sure to watch the video; it’s precious.
Dude, are you drunk? It’s only Wednesday!
I hope you find the doctor’s lack of evidence here compelling. You see with a real PSY-OP you’d never be given any alternatives but mine and they are right, because I say they’re right. And I should know because I’m running a PSY-OP on you but I’m not, but if I were, it would be for your safety.
This, gentle reader is what we call “double-speak” and the articles are what we call “verbal flailings in an attempt to thwart free-thinking and persuade the crowd to go back to watching American Idol” and the information we totally invent and is sourced solely by egomania and treated as fairly as a detainee at Guantanamo.
As for your Tax Dollars, Bill Benson PROVED with his 2 Volume Colossus ‘The Law That Never Was’, the 16th Amendment was NEVER PROPERLY RATIFIED!
Suck it, trolls!
Would that be your daddy by any chance? I understand my friend
Translation: I cannot rebut it thus I have to consider it not compelling or it would cause a conflict with my faith based beliefs that President Obama is the ‘evil one’.
Yummy, sucky trolls..
You’re awfully thin on specifics. Exactly which article and what statement do you object to? Never mind–I know it’s just bluster.
Being new here, you (all 11 of you) may not have noticed that most participants here are thoughtful folks who are attracted, it seems, to other thoughtful folks–those who appreciate evidence and sound reasoning. You can say “verbal flailing” but the folks here know better. You’re wasting your time telling readers here what they are reading. They are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. In a couple of days, your comments will have scrolled in to the morass of the other 8,000 comments that have come and gone. You cannot leave a “warning sign” here that will serve to “immunize” future readers against the truth, and your transient comments aren’t going to persuade anyone.
And what does fluoride or the 16th Amendment or the swine flu have to do with Obama Conspiracy Theories?
Why don’t you get your own web site. I bet ObamaConspiracySucks.org is available.
Are you confusing voter registration problems with voter fraud? AS to facts, are you sure you would even know what they’d look like?
Or would you rather be made look foolish by repeating ill founded accusations? Wait… It seems you have already made that choice. N’ver mind
I hear ya, NSA.
The weak shall inherit the earth. Truly prophetic it seems 🙂
Ah 4 more excellent years to look forward to. What a wonderful world we live in.
Wow, he can tell the day of the week. That’s comes as quite a surprise to me.
If there was any doubt you’re a government op, you just admitted it.
Stop by next time you’re passing through doc. I’d LOVE to see you face to face. My ex-Marine friends and I love a good discussion.
Seems you are also suffering from a slight reading comprehension. No worries, I understand.
I wonder why they are ex-marines…
PS: I am not ‘Doc’, you must be confusing me with one of my heros 🙂
Not talking to you NBC. It seems the good doc knows where I live. I know you guys are feds. I encountered the same type idiots at the END THE FED rally.
The doc is the one with which I want to discuss the 2nd. Let me see that bearded mug near my home and somebody is going to need some “re-education” You boys know what that is, right? I’m sure such well-molded intellects have read Orwell’s “1984”?
Does it never worry you that what you believe to be knowledge is actually ignorance?
I prefer the Cliff notes version also known as ’84
Actually Former Marine is preferred to ex. Unless you want to die for the price of oil, all Marines should now be Former.
Prometheus11 perhaps likes his liver pecked at?
It would be a good start if the military would wisen up and realize that it was sent into war based upon the non-existence of weapons of mass destruction and other myths. That’s unforgivable.
Dr. Conspiracy says:
May 27, 2009 at 9:53 pm
I hope you find the evidence and reasoning here compelling. But you see, with a real PSY-OP, you’d never be given the chance to say things like that. This, Tim, is what we call “Free Speech” and the articles are what we call “reasonable argument” and the information here is sourced and treated fairly as to context.
As for your tax dollars, you too can have a web site just like mine for $5.95 a month. The software is free. (Yes I said $7.95 in another article. They’ve lowered the price when you pay in advance.)
*
Prometheus11 says:
May 27, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I hope you find the doctor’s lack of evidence here compelling. You see with a real PSY-OP you’d never be given any alternatives but mine and they are right, because I say they’re right. And I should know because I’m running a PSY-OP on you but I’m not, but if I were, it would be for your safety.
This, gentle reader is what we call “double-speak” and the articles are what we call “verbal flailings in an attempt to thwart free-thinking and persuade the crowd to go back to watching American Idol” and the information we totally invent and is sourced solely by egomania and treated as fairly as a detainee at Guantanamo.
As for your Tax Dollars, Bill Benson PROVED with his 2 Volume Colossus The Law That Never Was’, the 16th Amendment was NEVER PROPERLY RATIFIED!
Suck it, trolls!
Nice one, P11
Oh and don’t get me wrong. I salute you and your military friends who have gone to war.
Darn, the phone hidden in my left shoe suddenly started ringing. A level one psy-ops intervention is in progress. Batten down the hatches, dive dive dive.
False alarm, it must be my mild case of tintinitus.
USMC Warrior and Promethius11 are the same writer. Self congratulation?
Maybe you do have that dissociative thingamajig.
You don’t live all that far from me, so I will be giving your town a wide berth.
NSA, nah. Try IP Address.
Figures…
Most of them know. But they’re stuck in a nightmare where you never know who’s gonna shoot you so you stay ever-paranoid and vigilant. To do otherwise could be fatal.
If Obama would bring them back immediately like he said he would, then we could prosecute this rogue criminal government.
Yes, this kind of persistent paranoia for survival can make adjusting to ‘normal life’ often quite complicated.
Cheney may not appreciate the prospects.
Prometheus11, et al wrote: I’m sure such well-molded intellects have read Orwell’s “1984‘?
I prefer Beyond Fear by Bruce Schneier.
Is Prometheus11 coyly threatening you? Amazing that these neanderthals like to resort to this kind of thing when their delusions are revealed. They’d rather fight than see the light.