Lt. Col. Terry Lakin
We covered it here on Obama Conspiracy Theories: Another military officer refuses deployment over birth certificate. Lt. Col. Terry Lakin, an army physician, has gone birther. Lakin has his fund-raising fan web site, Safeguard our Constitution where he says: “In 2008, after pressure from news media, President Obama’s rival, candidate McCain, produced an original birth certificate from the Panama Canal Zone”. [Emphasis in the original.]
That’s not true.
Why did Lakin say this? Is he intentionally attempting to mislead the public into thinking McCain released a birth certificate and Obama did not? Is Lakin clinically insane and delusional? Or is he just too damned lazy to verify the information with which he is attempting to subvert the government of the country he swore to defend?
If you’re a birther, chances are you believe that McCain released a birth certificate (and you may even be able to post a link to it). If that’s what you believe, then you’re in the lazy category.
What is the truth about the McCain certificate?
First, let’s look at what McCain did. Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs wrote:
The McCain campaign has declined to publicly release his birth certificate, but a senior campaign official showed me a copy.
We do not know what Dobbs saw, whether it was a hospital souvenir, a consular birth certificate, or something issued by the Canal Zone health department. Whatever it was, Dobbs called it a “copy” not an original, because originals are always retained by the jurisdiction where the birth is registered. Dobbs didn’t even say “certified copy.” Dobbs said that the document states that McCain was born on the Coco Solo submarine base. Remarkably, McCain’s birth is not listed in the birth index of the Canal Zone health department. But just as was the case with President Obama, the birth was listed in the local newspaper.
But you say that you have seen a birth certificate for John McCain. That document was filed by the plaintiffs (McCain was the defendant) in the Hollander v McCain lawsuit late in the process just before the case was dismissed for lack of standing. The “birth certificate” is on the list of filings for that lawsuit at Ohio State University. The document itself is a transparent fake, as discussed months ago on this web site and on others. The fake birth certificate has McCain born in the Republic of Panama, not the Canal zone.
The Hollander fake birth certificate has McCain born in the Republic of Panama, not the Canal zone, so it cannot be the birth certificate Lakin is referring to (assuming he even knows what he is referring to). This suggests that Lakin’s statement: “produced an original birth certificate” actually derives from the Dobbs article. If that’s so then the word “original” is a lie, and the entire context of the statement is designed to mislead. McCain published no birth certificate and Obama did. It’s a complete reversal of history to say that McCain produced something that Obama didn’t.
So back to the original question: liar, lunatic or lazy? Decide for yourself.
Related Stories:
- Birther court-martial on the way
- AWOL, Lakin fails to report
Notes:
- Somebody spent some big bucks (either real money or volunteer time) on Lakin’s web site. It’s very nice.
- Another so-called “short form” birth certificate appeared on the Internet for McCain. It also incorrectly showed him born in the Republic of Panama. This document has no provenance at all.
- In summary Obama is listed in the Hawaiian birth index, McCain is not listed in the Canal Zone birth index. Obama published a certified copy of his birth certificate, McCain refused to publicly release his birth certificate only showing a copy of something to one reporter. Obama’s birth was listed in two local newspapers; McCain was listed in one.
not lazy, but lunatic, possibly, he probably believes the birther stuff and thinks he is in the forefront of patriotism. Poor deluded guy. what a way to destroy a career.
Well I don’t think Lakin is a birther in the truest sense of the word, he asks the question was President Obama born on US soil so he apparently knows what NBC means. Other than that, yeah he’s insane!
Lakin said:
I call that full-bore birther.
The more I read Lakin, the more I see the sophisticated misinformation style of web sites like WorldNetDaily. I think Lakin is someone’s willing puppet.
Did he say that in the video he posted online? If so I missed that part and take back my comment about him not being a full fledged birther!
He said it here:
http://www.safeguardourconstitution.com/news/american-thinker-prove-your-eligibility.html
Thanks Doc.
Lots of good info posted on scribd yesterday.
Well, since the original “sanctioned” Birther laywer, John Hemenway’s daughter, Margaret Hemenway is prominently involved here, I’d say this is definitely a planned and orchestrated effort.
Lakin is just the latest tool dupe in the misguided agenda of these folks. They think they can find clever new ways to achieve their Holy Grail of “discovery”, but it won’t work, and they will just ruin Lakin’s career in the process.
If a WND connected funding showed up as well, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.
I have no sympathy for Lakin. He’s a big boy and has obviously been counseled enough times that this is a foolhardy action.
The fact that he’s chosen to go forward with this means he bears full responsibility for what happens to him next. I hope the military does not go easy on him and pursues the maximum penalties and punishments to set an example.
The thing with Lakin is he went though channels and got back an answer he didn’t like.
Which seems to be par for the course with the birthers everything they get something answered. They ignore it and try something else to get an answer that they’ve already decided is correct.
Something that has really struck me as funny about the whole thing.
Lakin has made a big deal about Obama’s birth certificate, and Margaret Hemenway has stated repeatedly that the State of Hawaii COLB image Obama posted is not a “birth certificate”.
Yet has anyone seen the image of the “Birth Certificate” Lakin has posted that he’s claimed he needed to provide for various military reasons?
It’s an image of a State of Colorado Certificate of Live Birth. In other words, a COLB.
By birther logic, what Lakin posted is not a real “birth certificate” either.
Dick
Stop being one, all these points have been answered exhaustively to you/Sven-you.
Vattel has exactly zero to do with ANY element of the Constitution and you have had the English Common Law of the period part as well.
Answer me this, if ECL has nothing to do with constitutional law how come the Supremes and all the Con Law folks continually refer back to it…?
Cases in point, the 2nd Amendment cases of Heller v DC and McDonald V Chicago.
Dick, find me a single founder who said, “We know that “natural born subject” has, for the past 400 years, meant born within the nation, regardless of the parents’ citizenship, but we are going to use the phrase “natural born citizen” to mean the exact opposite.”
Until you find that, you birthers will always have the short end of the stick.
Birthers: Waitress, please take back this steak, it isn’t what I ordered. I ordered Fish.
Waitress: But, you said steak, medium rare!
Birthers: But, we redefined “steak, medium rare” to mean fish. You should have known that! There’s a Swiss philosopher who says that steak is fish. How could you not know that!
Waitress: *Boggle*
Dick Whitman: Lots of good info posted on scribd yesterday.
All of that has been posted on this web site for half a year or more. In that translation of de Vattel, which two words correspond to the two translated words “citizens”? The George Mason quote is out of context.
Sven is obviously a bit behind in facts…
Will you stop purposefully misquoting Vattel? This is very annoying.
As I hope that birther attorneys will eventually be disbarred, I equally hope that Larkin will be cashiered out of the army pronto.
Random thoughts/comments re the published copy of Larkin’s COLB copy…
1. Noted the birth was apparently officially logged by the registrar for the purpose of vital records some 13 days after his birth. I seem to recall the birthers making a big fuss about the 4 day gap between Obama’s birth and the recorded date of registration lol.
2. This COLB copy was issued in 1994. For interest does anyone know what the style and format of a copy COLB from Colorado issued in 2007 (for someone born in 1965) would have looked like, in particular if it would have had the doctor’s name etc?
Lakin’s own birth certificate posted on his site is a certification just like Obama’s. It was generated in 1994 to certify his birth in 1965. It is not an original hospital long form. It is a short form.
Vince, if this is an answer to me…….I know it’s not the long form, don’t know why you think I didn’t….I think maybe you need to read my question again with that in mind.
I want to know what the Colorado short form looked like in 2007 so I can compare it with the Hawaiian short form of 2007.
There’s a big gap between 1994 and 2007 and Hawaii’s style and format changed several times over the years.
For interest and in connection with downing a daft birther comment elsewhere I want to know if Colorado’s format also changed and thought someone on here might already know….in other words I’m lazy lol.
I think the better question should be where can you find a COLB from HI issued in 2007 and compare that to the one that Obama posted. YOu would think that the birthers would have done that because then it would have proved their “forgery” theory. But the fact that the birthers have not found a HI COLB issued in 2007 leads me to believe that they know it will look exactly like Obama’s. So they don’t want to be the ones finding evidence that refutes their ridiculous claims. Kind of like Strunk and Stanley Ann Dunham’s passport records. He must have received them by now but not a peep from him. Which leads any intelligent person to surmise that he did not like what he found out. Which was that the President’s mother did not travel outside the country in 1961.
There are some excellent updates on Lakin’s status today – looks like the military is going after him & he’s been read his Miranda rights & his Pentagon access has been revoked:
http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=9219
I recommend reading all the April 13 posts at this site, as there are some great updates that provide further details on the Tea Party movement & Birther/Bagger NY Gov candidate, Carl Paladino as well.
To give credit where credit is due, Ron Polland (aka Ron Polarik) presented a collection of contemporary birth certificates from Hawaii printed in various years, ones that looked like Obama’s with slight variation from year to year.
Margaret Hemenway is the daughter-in-law of John.
http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/magaret-hemenway-did-the-judge-seek-to-fine-and-sanction-my-father-in-law-for-seeking-the-truth/
I was not responding to Grounded, but was just making the point that Lankin’s 1994 certificate is called a Certification in the embossed margin and a Certificate of Live Birth. It is a certification made in 1994 by the Colorado official that it is an accurate record of the information in their files of Lakin’s birth in 1965. It is not the original birth record from 1965, yet Lakin demands Obama’s original birth record from 1961.
That is substantially the same type of document as Obams’s COLB, which is a certification by the Hawaiian official that it is an accurate record of the information in its files.
Both documents meet the definition of “birth certificate” in federal law, as codified as a note following Title 5, United States Code, section 301 (5 U.S.C. 301 nt.):
http://law.justia.com/us/codes/title5/5usc301.html
The definition reads:
“(3) Birth certificate.–As used in this subsection, the term
`birth certificate’ means a certificate of birth–
“(A) of–
“(i) an individual born in the United States; or
“(ii) an individual born abroad–
“(I) who is a citizen or national of the United States at
birth; and
“(II) whose birth is registered in the United States; and
“(B) that–
“(i) is a copy, issued by a State or local authorized
custodian of record, of an original certificate of birth
issued by such custodian of record; or
“(ii) was issued by a State or local authorized
custodian of record and was produced from birth records
maintained by such custodian of record.
Under this definition, the COLB is a “birth certificate.” It is a “certificate of birth” issued to “an individual born in the United States” who is a “citizen or national of the United States at birth” and whose “birth is registered in the United States,” and that certificate “was issued by a State or local authorized custodian of record and was produced from birth records maintained by such custodian of record.”
Politifact wondered what other Hawaiian COLBs looked like.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
“When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical).”
MSNBC has the news: court-martial, here we come!
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/04/13/2267021.aspx
Yippee!
A cursory look at google maps will show you that Coco Solo is located in the Colon harbor. The city of Colon was specifically excluded from the PCZ. Since I’m sure you know that overseas military installations are not US territory but are merely rented land with the host country retaining sovereignty, John McCain was definitely born in the Republic of Panama. Even if he was born in the middle of the canal on a raft he would still have been born in the RP since the canal zone was always sovereign Panamanian territory. John McCain was born in Panama, end of story.
getoverit: Even if he was born in the middle of the canal on a raft he would still have been born in the RP since the canal zone was always sovereign Panamanian territory.
That statement seems to be at odds with what I read on the subject. The Canal Zone was an “unincorporated Territory of the United States.” It had its own government, police force and judges. The US, not the Panamanian flag was flown over the Zone. Further the US Citizenship status of one born in the Zone was different from one born in the Republic of Panama.
Whether John McCain was a natural born citizen of the United States is a question of debate among legal scholars.
Here is the spin on the Larkin issue from the idiots at American Grand Jury….Basically they cover both bases….Obama was born in Kenya but if not he can’t be a NBC because his father was a British citizen….Nice CYA….
http://americangrandjury.org/press-release-april-13-2010-you-have-the-right-to-remain-silent#comment-18337
Comment by American Grand Jury:
LTC Lakin is a hero. If he gets streamrolled by the Brass “WE the People” need to come unglued all over the Military.
By the way.. Obama’s COLB “document” released during the campaign was a total forgery. The only one legal around here is Lt. Col. Terry Lakin who is doing his duty defending the Constitution when refusing to obey an order given by a Traitor and Usurper.
For all you Obots out there that think you are looking at a document that makes Obama legal, think again! No where on this document does it indicate an attending physician or a hospital certified a birth in Hawaii. The most damning evidence against Obama is not the COLB BUT that fact that he is NOT a “natural born” citizen. He could have 10 birth certificates from 10 different States, it makes no difference. Obama himself admitted his father was a British subject (citizen of Kenya). Obama’s father was NEVER a US citizen. That fact alone makes him ineligible to hold office. “Natural born” means 2 parents, BOTH being US Citizens with the child being born in the US or its territories.
On top of that there is considerable evidence saying Barack Obama was born in Kenya, not the United States. THAT would make him an “illegal alien.”
Of course the birthers will be conned out of their money. Additionally they prove to us that they have no clue how the law really works….
live oak Says:
April 13th, 2010 at 11:37 am
He is a REAL hero and a patriot!!! I will mail a donation today for his defense.
All of them…Congress and the military will answer for this. I have made this my life’s work, and I never quit.
Tom Says:
April 13th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
I certainly don’t understand or comprehend how they can deny him discovery!?!? How can he be deemed guilty of disobeying an order until they (the government) prove that the order was in fact legitimate and legal? And to do that, they must first prove that the pResident is not a usurper!
thistle Says:
April 13th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Just a thought….could this possibly be the Army’s way of proving, once and for all, whether Obama is eligible or not? I mean, IF they have arrested Lakin, isn’t the burden of proof now on Obama’s shoulders? I know a court martial is different than regular trials, so forgive me if this is a stupid question.
Robert Says:
April 13th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
You are correct, thistle. I sm looking forward to this Court Martial.
And of course advocating violence…Real patriots…
Phoebe Says:
April 13th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
FC, Dr. Manning said a while back that Beck ruined the Tea Party by “taming” them to not use violence. If Beck hadn’t taken it over, we might have had lots of patriots using physical force to resolve this evil regime takeover. We might have had a very different America if the “tamed” had stayed beyond angry! I still am beyond angry but just learning about personal protection methods.
So, I keep praying for God to spare us anymore tyranny, treason and pain.
I also keep trying to wake up sheeple around me and that indeed is difficult with many! I don’t think a lot of the sheeple want to wake up. They don’t want to face the truth! As Alex Jones says, they are more interested in their favorite sports team recent scores or the newest movie at the theatre! Sad….
Dr. C:
That was an interesting link; thanks for providing it. After reading the opinions, I find those that argue the 1937 statute makes Senator McCain a natural born citizen to be the most persuasive.
Now I’m sure you’ve dealt with the following question before, but based on your current understanding of the primary actors in the birther movement, what would a release of President Obama’s 1961 birth record do for their cause?
For example, I’ve read that birthers say the original birth record would provide the name of the attending physician, but of what value would that be to proving Obama is not a natural born citizen?
(You can point me to a link on your site if this has already been explored)
Thanks!
Predictibly the birthers, mostly the Post and Fail are unahppy with how the seditious Larkin is being covered in the so called mainstream media…
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/04/13/msm-continues-to-shill-for-obama-to-cover-up-eligibility-question/
“While the article mentions that the officer who confronted Lakin, Col. Gordon Roberts, was “a Vietnam Medal of Honor recipient,” it says nothing about the myriad awards which Lakin has received, among them the Armed Forces Expedition Medal, the Bronze Star, the Army Service Ribbon, and the Combat Medical Badge.
It also provides no evidence to support its claim that Lakin’s decision to disobey orders is “incorrect.” Lakin did not base his actions on “belief,” but rather, on his desire to uphold his oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, as stated in his letter of March 31, 2010 to Obama.
The MSNBC report also labels Lt. Col. Lakin the pejorative “birther” without explaining the meaning of the term.”
Just as an aside, when did the Congressional Medal of Honor become equvalent to any of the following awards; Armed Forces Expedition Medal, the Bronze Star, the Army Service Ribbon, and the Combat Medical Badge.
And of course the commentary….From the usual suspects…
tminu says:
Tuesday, April 13, 2010 at 11:56 PM
now that the presidential cabinet level of the Kenyan government announces that he was born in Kenya, which is admissible in court…
he can’t go to any court
anywhere
CDR Kerchner says:
Tuesday, April 13, 2010 at 10:44 PM
We clearly see now how corrupt our Main Stream Media now is. Once again, …. the question in all American’s minds. WHEN will the Main Stream Media Investigate This!?
Current High Level Cabinet Minister of Kenyan Government Declares Obama “was born here in Kenya” and Is Not a “native American”!
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/04/current-minister-of-kenyan-government.html
(more….)
Black Lion says:
Just as an aside, when did the Congressional Medal of Honor become equvalent to any of the following awards; Armed Forces Expedition Medal, the Bronze Star, the Army Service Ribbon, and the Combat Medical Badge.
Of those awards, the Bronze Star is the most prestigious. It is awarded for “bravery, acts of merit, or meritorious service.” We don’t know the circumstances under which Lakin received it.
The Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal is given to anyone who serves in a campaign which qualifies. Heck, even I have one. It’s nothing to sneeze at, but it’s not an award given for individual achievements.
The Army Service Ribbon is given to all active duty members of the Army.
The Combat Medical Badge is awarded to any medical personnel below the rank of Colonel who serve with a medical unit that provides medical care to ground combat forces. Presumably Lakin (and everyone else in his unit) received it for when they were in Afghanistan.
Obviously, Lakin’s medals pale in comparison to the Medal of Honor, although his Bronze Star suggests that he once did something above and beyond.
Arthur: based on your current understanding of the primary actors in the birther movement, what would a release of President Obama’s 1961 birth record do for their cause?
In my view, the only reason to ask for the hospital birth registration document is to occasion a furtherance of the smear campaign against Obama. Logically, there is nothing that could be on the document that impacts when and where President Obama was born. The birthers put forward the possibility of fraud, forgery or foreign adoption. Forgery and foreign adoption can be ruled out quickly based on Hawaiian official statements and the laws governing adoptions.
Registration fraud is the only theoretical possibility, and that would mean that Barack Obama was not really born in a hospital and his registration would show he was born at home, unattended (and the birth registration was fraudulent). There are monumental objections to this scenario, but implausible objections of theoretical possibilities is what the birther movement is all about. Birthers are demanding that their opponents prove every theoretical possibility is impossible, or put another way, they are demanding proof of a negative.
Rickey, thanks for the clarification….I wasn’t trying to disparage any military awards but the article seemed to want to equte the CMH with other awards, when it is clearly an award that stands by itself…
I never thought that you were trying to disparage them.
It is sweet irony that he was dressed down by a Medal of Honor winner!
Agreed…It was funny to see the birther idiots try and disparage him….
Rickey: Of those awards, the Bronze Star is the most prestigious. It is awarded for “bravery, acts of merit, or meritorious service.”
We know, courtesy of the predecessors of the birthers, the swiftboaters, that the Bronze star is a worthless decoration (as it was earned by John Kerry).
I think you are absolutely correct, Doc. Lakin sure is willing to suffer the consequences for his puppet master. It won’t be worth it for Lakin.
Dr. C:
Thanks for your analysis!
You know, I wonder if there is something more going on with the Lakin story that just a misguided birther. The Colorado Independent reported:
Lakin’s Greeley family have distanced themselves from his stance. His father told the Greeley Tribune last week that they were Obama supporters.
One distinction between Sen. Kerry’s Bronze Star and Lt. Col. Lakin’s: Kerry’s medal (like his Silver Star, and three Purple Hearts) was earned for heroic action in combat, not simply for meritorious service.
Yes, not all Bronze Stars are equal. A Bronze Star for heroism in combat is ranked higher than a Bronze Star for meritorious service.
This thread reminded me that both my father-in-law and my late father were awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star for heroic action in combat– the former in Korea, the latter in Europe during WWII. My father-in-law is a 1945 graduate of West Point who rose to Captain; my father was a 33 year-old insurance salesman who was drafted, reluctantly, in 1942, and rose to Sergeant.
My father said very little about his medals, and rarely talked about the war, except to share a humorous story or two. My father-in-law, who looks just like Pete Seeger and shares the singer’s political views, won’t say anything about Korea. Had I not come across his medals and commendations, stowed inside a moldering box in a relative’s basement, I never would have known what he did.
Like many soldiers, these men bore the honor of their service with humility; Lt. Col. Lakin, on the other hand, seems to be using his military record to legitimize a discredited agenda led by partisan lack-wits. It kind of makes me ill . . .
What was I thinking? What are Lakin’s military benefits compared with the advance on his book deal?
Terry Lakin will find out that beliefs and facts are two very different things and in the end his courts-martial will be his own public humiliation for believing something he can not prove. I would love to be there during the military trial and find out what facts he has, internet gossip? Let’s face it no one will take the Birthers seriously until they win a case, but until then, they will continue to appear dumb, crazy or racist, or maybe all three. The old GOP Confederacy, that is what these liars want, good luck with that.
The problem with this is, is the LT Colonel saying that any soldier can refuse orders from a senior commissioned officer or non commissioned officer unless he sees his promotion warrant or assignment letter, or that any soldier has the right to see a senior officers documents before he carries out orders? I served in the Marine Corps for over 22 years, I never asked it of anyone over me and no one ever asked it of me, that was serving under me. I have never asked for or seen any of my superiors proof of authority. The verification of that I left to those above that officer. To do that is to not only question that officer but every officer above him up the chain of command. If the military were to allow this it could cause serious issues and incidents throughout the chain of command and could be viewed as somewhat treasonous(considering we are at war). Why did the Lt Col not just resign his commission if he believed so strongly in his views and carry on his fight as a private citizen? This is really sad to see a Military man gamble his career and most of all his reputation on hearsay. Court martials are much different than civilian courts. They will rule whats in the best interest of the military not the Lt Col(my opinion only).The burden of proof will be on him not the President.Conduct unbecoming an officer is not as hard to prove as one may think especially if his actions are not considered in keeping with military traditions and good order and discipline.I am really saddened for the Colonel which seems to have been a really good soldier. Don’t military doctors have enough to deal with after that major shot up his troops. They don’t need this. If any veterans reads this I respect your views and I thank you and your families for your service to this country and all your sacrifices.
Ron retired Msgt USMC 1981-2003
ron: Why did the Lt Col not just resign his commission if he believed so strongly in his views and carry on his fight as a private citizen?
The cynic in me ways that by becoming a martyr he gets more publicity. Publicity is all that he’s going to achieve.
I still think that the publicity will be a lot less than he or the other “birthers” are hoping for.
If he gets a few years in Leavenworth, the birther issue and movement will be fairly old news by the time he gets out.
Yes, I’m sure the die-hard of the die-hard conspiracy theorists will be muttering “any day now” about Obama forever, but their already failed movement will become almost utterly meaningless after the 2012 election. Any final trial attempts they have will be made during that election cycle and will most likely get squashed down for good.
You know it is bad for Lakin when not even FOX news can gloss over or find true legal experts that think he has a chance….
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/23/birther-army-doctor-court-martial-yield-new-document/
“But others say Lakin’s novel approach is doomed to fail, and legal experts say he apparently made his decision to proceed to a court-martial without the advice of experienced counsel.
One military attorney said Lakin had advice from a lawyer, Paul Rolf Jensen, but that Jensen had “only three months’ experience in military law as a clerk in the 1980s” and was not an expert in military law. Jensen did not return a phone call seeking comment, but military experts called Lakin’s effort a tragedy and waste.
“He is likely to lose everything and accomplish nothing,” one attorney lamented. “No military judge will say that (obtaining documents) of the president is necessary to prove the charges,” said Philip D. Cave, a Washington attorney and director of the National Institute of Military Justice.
Cave said that the validity of Lakin’s orders, under military law, does not depend on the president but on the chain of command. “He will be convicted and is in jeopardy of dismissal,” he said.
Dismissal, for a military officer, is the same as a dishonorable discharge for an enlisted servicemember.
“We all feel saddened,” said David Price, a former captain and 25-year veteran of the Navy Judge Advocate General’s office, now in private practice.
“He was issued an order to deploy and didn’t. End of issue,” he said. He said the military has dealt with these types of cases since Vietnam, when soldiers tried to make larger political issues the basis of their trials, and is experienced at keeping the proceedings free of politics.
Price also said that if the case does finally get to a general court-martial and a judge is asked to approve discovery requests by the defense, it is unlikely that it would be allowed to encompass the presidency. He said this wasn’t because of a conspiracy, but because the case is relatively simple and doesn’t require it.
Gary Myers, a former military lawyer who now heads a Washington firm specializing in military law, says he “just shook my head” when he heard about the case “I think [Lakin] is out of his mind” for thinking he could challenge the president this way, he said.
“It is grandstanding.”
Non-commission officers identify problems and resolve them to the best of their ability or adapt. Commissioned officers identify problems and work on a solution to prevent the problem from occurring again.
Resigning his commission would not prevent a usurper from taking the oath of office for POTUS. Lakin’s actions have little to do with Obama and a great deal to do about preserving the integrity of the Constitution.
Black Lion: You know it is bad for Lakin when not even FOX news can gloss over or find true legal experts that think he has a chance
Fox News, I think, sees birtherism as a threat to their brand of conservatism. They will not hesitate to bring to that view the same unfair and unbalanced coverage they bring to their coverage of Obama. Birtherism will either split the Republican Party or with will discredit the Republican Party. It’s a lose-lose situation for Fox’s constituency.
Agreed…And if they could have found an attorney that thougth Lakin had a chance, they would have used him. The fact that all of the legal experts have stated that Lakin has no chance to get any sort of discovery is telling….
Or more correctly, Lakins actions have nothing to do with Obama whatsoever at all and only involve frivolous excuses of one extremely misguided, biased officer’s inability to follow a direct order, resulting in court martial.
There, fixed.
I would like also to submit this question,
even if Obama was not the President would the war still not be going on? I could understand the Lt Col’s actions more if it was based on the ending of the war and he believes his actions would save lives, but if he feels his politcalness is more important than some american soldier bleeding to death in a war zone that his experience could save , that kind of puzzles me. To me it seems that as an experienced Doctor his not going could cost lives. I just don’t get how this is going to force the supreme court to hear this argument, When the state of Hawaii would still be the source of certification?
Also why would the long from (if it even exists anymore) be any different than the short form.
I recruited for the Marine Corps from 1998-2001. I enlisted over 100 young men and women. Over 70% did not have an official birth certification. they all had to be obtained from the state of birth record and they all received certicates of live birth from the state and that was valid for enlistment. Even those that had Birth Certificates still had to have those faxed to state agency for verification as true.(all docs are certified, social security card, diploma , drivers license etc before an enlistee graduates from boot camp.) thats where that serial number on BV comes in . That agency pulls up that number and the certificate attached to it at the state agency ‘s info has to match the submitted document to be verified as true.
So I just don’t get the discrepancy.
I know that there have been rumors and pictures of other birth certificates out there but I don’t see any evidence that they were verified as true, But the Hawaii one has been verified as true. Why would anyone believe the unverified documents over a verified one? Makes no sense to me.
I will pray for the LT Col and his family even though I just cannot seem to make any sense out of his reasoning.
Dear Black Lion,
Everything about Birtherism is so bizarre, we have lost our index of how exquisitely bizarre any of its individual premises can be, taken on its face.
Like the general idea that the timeless national security function of military discipline can honorably be made the hostage of ANY officer’s NOVEL personal LEGAL interpretation of any clause in the U.S. Constitution!
Benji Franklin
Det. Cliff Hanger:
That’s an interesting distinction between commissioned and non-commissioned officers. However, if, as you suggest, Lt. Col. Lakin is motivated by a desire to change the system, he devised an ineffective method to do it. At the end of this legal wrangling, President Obama will still be, rightfully, in office.
On the other hand, there is a strong possibility that Lakin’s court martial will result in his imprisonment, reduction in rank and/or benefits, and leave him with a dishonorable discharge. Meanwhile, the people who encouraged him to mount this quixotic pursuit will have lost very little and accomplished even less.
That is because there is no sense to their reasoning.
These birthers are people driven by blind hatred and fear to want to believe any possible smear they can against the president because they personally can’t stand that he got elected.
Reasoning doesn’t come into it – they mentally & emotionally left the rational reality based world behind when he got elected.
Commissioned officers identify problems and work on a solution to prevent the problem from occurring again.
Resigning his commission would not prevent a usurper from taking the oath of office for POTUS. Lakin’s actions have little to do with Obama and a great deal to do about preserving the integrity of the Constitution.
That ranks fairly high on the list of idiotic comments regarding Lakin.
Commissioned officer who are not general officers or of flag rank do not set policy. They carry out policy. Even the Captain of an aircraft carrier does not decide where to take his ship. He takes his ship where he is told by his superiors to take it.
Lakin was not in command of anything. He is a medical officer. He does not have the authority to determine what constitutes a threat to the Constitution. And even if there were a real threat to the Constitution, Lakin does not have the authority to decide what to do about it.
The sad part is that he apparently is an excellent doctor. His misguided actions are going to deny wounded soldiers in Afghanistan the benefit of his medical skills. It also will force another Army doctor who was not scheduled for deployment to take his place, or it will require a doctor who was scheduled to come home to extend his or her tour in Afghanistan.
Well, the people who encouraged him sure seem to be con artists, so they care little about Lakin’s fate. He’s just their pawn. All of their statements seem to focus as much on asking people to “donate” to their “defense fund”…
So while he goes down with ruining his life & career, it looks like these folks hope to fleece the gullible for profit. If you look around “birther world”, it seems like just about all “leaders” in that movement spend a good portion of their effort on fleecing their rubes at every opportunity.
I’m guessing that it has more to do with making money exploiting stupid birthers than it does with the Constitution. If it had to do with the latter, Lt. Col. Lakin would have checked with competent legal counsel before embarking on this particular windmill-tilt.
g, presuming much:
it’s difficult to imagine they were ever here …
LMAO! You’ve got a point. Although I know some birthers & TeaBaggers (including, unfortunately some family members).
The painful thing is seeing the changes in these people, who came across like normal happy people … until the day that Obama got elected … and now they can’t carry on a single conversation on any topic without being all cranky and weird and having to spout Glenn Beck talking points and muttering “socialism”, “communism” and “Maoism” into every other sentence.
And it seems to translate to everything – Let me give you just one example:
Last summer, my wife & I ran into this one guy I used to work with in the grocery store and he told me he was buying food for an outdoor church picnic and I simply said that it was a perfect sunny day for one.
Well, he all of a sudden goes off the rails into this rant about how he doesn’t believe in global warming and its all Obama’s fault or something…
…My wife and I just stared at him incredulously in silence for a minute and then I simply replied that I had no idea what he’s talking about since I thought we were talking about a church picnic and what a nice sunny day it was and had no idea what global warming or Obama has anything to do with it at all.
He got a weird guilty look on his face and muttered something crazy about there are no more nice days and something about “the end of days” coming and turned away and took off for the check out counters at a fast pace.
It was truly bizarre!
So yes, these people are now completely fricking nutcases… but a good portion of them came across as sane normal people for years and years before the 2008 election happened.
g, his eyes uncovered:
obama’s doing the country a favor. there are many walking around who seem for most part functionally sane, especially if our only window on them is on the functional part. thanks to the election it’s gotten a whole lot easier to separate the sane from the insane.
This whole situation is just ugly, and truly unbelievable. It has made me question the true colors of many people I had great respect for and called my friends.I mean people are fighting mad over this stuff.Don’t the birthers have something substanial they can be doing? I know I served this country to ensure all our fredoms are protected. But I just can’t believe this is their best effort. Life is to short for this mess.
The optimist in me hopes that *some* of them will eventually regain their sanity. Obviously, a decent portion of them seem to have gone so far over the cliff that I don’t know if they’ll ever return to the rational world.
I hate to say it, but fundamentalist religious beliefs seem to be strongly connected to the more irrational ones I’ve encountered. I’ve mentioned before that I foresee years of the crazy ahead and expect that the next 2 years will bring nothing but escalation, particularly with the “Armageddonist” crowd that I’m worried that we’ve just seen the tip of the iceberg on.
Just from my own observation, but a fair number of these birther / TeaBagger types I encounter seem to truly think we’re in “The End Times”… So, I think there’s definitely a connection in the irrational thought patterns there.
Below are requirements to be a U.S. Army Miltary officer
College Graduates (Civilian Applicants)
Eligibility
At least 19 and no older than 29 at time of enlistment (applicants ages 30-34 may request a waiver)
United States citizen
Earn a minimum 110 GT score on
At least a 4-year college degree prior to entering the Army
the Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB)
Meet the minimum height and weight standard ( male& female)
Pass a complete physical at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS)
Able to obtain a security clearance
No more than 10 years’ active Federal Service at time of commission
Be able to meet the normal requirements of enlistment (Note: Criminal History requirements for commission are much more strict than the requirements listed in the “requirements of enlistment” article. In general, an applicant for commission must have no convictions by civil or military courts. (This does not apply to minor traffic violations with a fine or forfeiture of $250.00 or less). An applicant must not have been judged to be a juvenile offender. This applies even if the court sentence, or any part of it, was suspended or withheld, or such conviction was in any way removed from court records by satisfactory completion of a period of probation. This also applies to adverse juvenile adjudication. (Note: Some convictions can be waived).
If the LTCOL were to win, every soldier could request they see the proof of citizenship of every officer that gives them a order.(EVERY ONE THAT DOES NOT LOOK AMERICAN ENOUGH) who sees that as a good idea? Does any one NOT see the mess this could cause. The delays to missions because every officer is not carrying his birth certificate into combat, and it must be the hospital long form at that. So any officer that does not have his original Birth Certificate must give up his commision? How can anyone thats supports our miltary see this as a good idea.
Why would any jury military or civilian endorse that. THINK ABOUT IT, A UNIFORMED POLICE MAN STOPS ME ON HIGHWAY. I don’t follow any of his orders to stop unless I see his academy credentials(which he does not have on him). Does anyone see where this is going. This action is unsupportable. In the case of the policeman its the job of his superiors to ensure his qualification not me.
How do we know Lakin is an American citizen as he claims? He posted a digital copy of his Certificate of Live Birth online but no one has seen the paper copy. According to Colorado law CRS 25-2-114, a birth certificate must be filed within 10 days, but Lt. Col. Lakin’s birth certificate wasn’t filed until 13 days after his birth. CRS 25-2-114 clearly says, “The State Registrar may require additional evidence in support of the facts of birth and/or an explanation of why the certificate of birth was not filed within the required ten days.” Where is that additional evidence and/or explanation? Is he not providing the additional evidence because there is none? Furthermore, CRS 25-2-115 allows for changes to be made to the certificate without the certificate being marked “amended.” The parents can change the name on the birth certificate up to a year from birth. I find it very suspicious that Lakin redacted the names of his parents on his COLB. For all we know, his father was Osama Bin Laden, and he was born Terrence Muhammed Bin Laden, but his parents changed his name within the first year to Terrence Lee Lakin so he’d be able to gain entry into the US military as part of a sleeper cell. The certificate could also be a forgery. It says it’s “not valid if photocopied.” If he photocopied it, it’s not proof of his birth. In order for me to accept that Lakin is an American citizen, I have to see nothing less than his original hospital certificate with a thumbprint or footprint. Otherwise how will we know that he’s the same person whose name appears on the birth certificate and not an impostor? And guess what! He’s trying to raise half a million dollars. Sounds like he needs to raise the money to cover up the suspicious circumstances of his birth. Why is he spending half a million dollars if he doesn’t have anything to hide?
Disclaimer: The rantings you have just read are satire based on birther logic.
nemocapn: For all we know, his father was Osama Bin Laden
For all we know, it was Barack Obama Sr.
Brilliant! Since it’s not valid if photocopied, then since it was reproduced, even the ORIGINAL is no longer valid! Gotta love birther logic.
I forgot to mention that the Colorado State Seal on Lakin’s birth certificate has the all-seeing eye, an alleged symbol of the New World Order. It also has a fasces, which Mussolini used as a symbol for fascism. I wonder how long it will take before the birthers notice?
Are the birthers saying they would rather tear down the whole system before they accept Obama as president? Because honestly if they would win, thats what would happen.Lakin winning would give everyone the right to refuse orders from police that did not look american enough and will not release their records.
lets look at the requirements to become a Police Officer
Police officers are responsible for enforcing laws and maintaining peace. Their primary objective is to protect lives and property and to admirably provide the public service of police work.
Step 1: Graduate from High School
Most police departments require at least a high school diploma or equivalent education from their officers. While some hire graduates right out of high school, many require potential officers to be at least 21 years old and all need to be U.S. citizens.
So since all police must be citizens and if a policeman stops me , and does not look American enough I have the right to request his birth certificate(long form) and his education records since to hold the job he must be a citizen. If he does not hand them over or they do not stand up to my scrutiny, I have the right to not comply or rather a duty to not comply with any instructions he levies at me? And if it is a police chief who’s citizenship is in question it is my duty to not comply with his orders or the orders of those he commands.
Does anyone believe that?
What I have the right to do is file a request for an inquiry, and what would happen is a police official would write me a neat letter saying the officer has met all qualifications for his job.I doubt I would get a copy of his birth certificate (long form or any other form) and I doubt I would get copies of his education records.
Most likely any charges compiled from my non compliance would be levied gainst me in court and I would be fined and probably sent to jail for being a A-hole.(unless I also question the judges citizenship since there is a chance that judges may have to be citizens as well, then they will probably fit me for a strait jacket and walk me to a padded cell at a state hospital so I can laugh as i look at the pretty colors on the wall.) just kidding.
If anyone doubts this give it a try, hope you have bail money. let me know how it goes. Hope no ones trys too though because you could get shot.
My point is it is not my responsibility to vet police officers nor should I have the right to.(that is the responsibily of those that serve above the officers and and beside him).
Yes we can all ask question, be when competent authority answers those question that is it. Rather we like the answers or not.
I believe in the presidents case the delgates of the electoral college stated they was satisfied that he met the requirements when they cast their votes, Done deal.
So if you really think the LT Col has a case,
next time some drug dealer fires at a police officer who busts into a drug den yelling freeze police and that drug dealer takes a life. Testify for him or her that he or she had a right to since he or she did not know for sure he was real a qualified policeman. The uniform and shield did not prove anything. Was was his long form?
In closing there are many positions in this country that require some form of citizenship(maybe even supreme court judges). who’s next? Do we really want to open that pandoras box?
I checked Supreme court justices have no wording in constitution that they be citizens(maybe thats why they don’t want to get involved. But its highly unlikely any non citizen would be confirmed by congress)
Most states however do require judges to be citizens to be eligible for an appointment(I am assuming the below requirement from Alaska is meaning state supreme court appointmentss must be citizen not federal (but this is Palin’s staTe so who knows they may think they can override the constitution)
The Judicial Appointment Process for Alaska taken from Alaska gov site.
Alaska has a merit selection system for judges and justices. The governor appoints a supreme court justice or a judge of the court of appeals, superior court, or district court from a list of qualified candidates submitted by the Alaska Judicial Council. The governor has 45 days from receipt of the list to make the appointment.
In order to be eligible for appointment to the supreme court, a person must be a citizen of the United States and a resident of Alaska for five years prior to appointment. A justice must be licensed to practice law in Alaska at the time of appointment and must have engaged in the active practice of law for eight years.
A court of appeals judge must be a citizen of the United States; a resident of Alaska for five years immediately preceding appointment; have been engaged for not less than eight years immediately preceding appointment in the active practice of law; and at the time of appointment be licensed to practice law in the State of Alaska.
The qualifications of a judge of the superior court are the same as for a supreme court justice, except only five years of active practice are necessary.
So if lakin was to win which i doubt, lok at the BS that would be started.
So I reiterate I do not seee any precedence that gives a citizen the right to vet a public official, ask questions yes but to vet no ..
The same for a military officer, question yes vet no. The col asked the question through the chain of the command. To show dissent for that answer publicly is insubordination.
Det Cliffhanger,
Please read my my comments about Policemen and Judges above, and give me your comments, I respect your opinion for the rational comments you have made. I do disagree with you that LTCOL Lakin is trying to preserve the constitution. I feel his actions though probably not realized by him are to accomplish the opposite. Please review my Police and Judge comments. Judges and Police take oaths to the constitution as well, his efforts could hender them from carrying out their duty.
I really feel Ltcol Lakin is being mislead and used by people that want to bring the whole country down. Both The Ltcol and President Obama are just pawns in their ultimate pursuit to destroy America from within. Everyone that is supporting his insubordination to his chain of command should really think about what his winning his case would do to the whole country at every level.From the white house to every public servant in the country Do we want out public servants to be forced to release their personal documents to not just employers and agencies that will protect their private information, But to anyone that asks regardless of reason or necessity that can then alter those docs, and spread them at will. I personally would not have posted my BC on the internet as the president did. This case if won would have consequences to this country beyond the military and the white house.