I awoke this morning to a comment in moderation (now approved) by KenyanBornObamAcorn pointing to an article by Jerome Corsi at WorldNetDaily that repeats and adds to what she wrote about anti-birther activist Foggy.
Corsi describes Foggy as a “disbarred attorney,” suggests that he may have broken laws in his anti-birther activities, and generally tries to smear the fellow. Foggy replied on his Fogbow forum:
I was not disbarred, I resigned. The state bar record he posted confirms that. There was never any time in which the State Bar of California even suggested disbarment as a punishment.
I haven’t violated any state or federal statutes.
If Foggy speaks truthfully (which I don’t doubt) then Corsi and WorldNetDaily libeled him. If the documents known by Corsi actually prove that he lied, then Corsi’s article would exhibit a reckless disregard for the truth and might meet the strict requires of Times v Sullivan. (I am not a lawyer and anything I say here is strictly a layman’s interpretation.)
I don’t know what WorldNetDaily gains by attacks like this. Indulging in a petty personal feud is blog-quality material, not something a professional news organization engages in.
I left this comment at WorldNetDaily:
Speak for yourself, Doc C.
We’ve been OWNING them since Day One. While no amount of ownage has stopped their abject lunacy, make no mistake, it’s US that has marginalized these retards and left them twisting in the wind.
Our tactics are fair and fun. It’s about time Corsi got into the game. Now HE becomes a fair target.
“I don’t know what WorldNetDaily gains by attacks like this. Indulging in a petty personal feud is blog-quality material, not something a professional news organization engages in.”
I think there is enlightenment lurking here 🙂
That article is full of lies. WND/Corsi also chose to use a photo that included children.
Corsi/Farah are scum.
Oh dear Jerry,
You really have screwed the pooch quite horribly this time, his actions are well beyond KBOA’s sad and pathetic media whoring cries for attention.
Apart from the libel he forgot the cardinal rule at WND, lie in the headline then caveat in the body, “surmise”, It is reasonable to believe”, “in my opinion” etc.
You out and out accused, no weaseling will work this time.
Best part, since Corsi, Farah and WND are so intimately and inextricably linked, any lawsuit is going to have real fun and games ripping through the finances and working operations of them all.
Obots got DISCOVERY…….. 😎
The Cal. St. Bar never even suggested it would disbar me. I got in some minor trouble during a time when both my wife’s parents died of Alzheimers’ in my home, and I had some severe depression and some marijuana use. I decided to get out of the law biz and my State Bar record clearly says I “resigned,” not that I was disbarred.
Corsi also falsely accused me of committing state and federal crimes. He posted photos of my young children. He falsely claimed I filed that “legal brief” with a court (it was really just a compilation of reasons why Orly Taitz should be sanctioned in Taitz v. Astrue and I sent it to Patrick Nemeroff, the assistant U.S. Attorney on the case).
Worst of all, on Corsi’s Facebook page he wrote:
He gave them enough info to find the phone number and address of my flower shop. Corsi and/or his people are desperately scrubbing threats against me from both the WND page and from Facebook, but I have screenshots of everything. Several innocent women who work for me are terrified. I’ve already contacted the FBI, and I’m on my way to the Raleigh Police Dept. now. I have a first class libel/slander attorney in D.C. working on this.
This is not like that impoverished (in more ways than one) KenyaBornObamAcorn. Corsi has money, and is going to rue this day. Scrubbing my comments isn’t going to help him even a little bit. He stepped in a mess this time. I’m going to own Esquire magazine! 😀
Foggy, when you own Esquire/whatever – we will need some really good writers to staff the publication. I wonder where we could find such a pool of highly qualified Obots to run the thing???? The fog is clearning…..;)
Of course, I do speak for myself, but I don’t see the real-world effects of anti-birther bloggers like Foggy. It’s not much to say that someone has been owned if you’re the only one who knows it.
I wondered if that photo was an appeal to racists.
I wish you success.
I guess I do know what WND is getting at. By putting a face on “the enemy” they fire up the base, which means more hits on the web site and more money for them.
Doc,
To be honest, we HAVE had successes, the best example being the late and very unlamented Gretawire which started as a cesspool echo chamber of Birferstan.
It was then agressively populated by a small number of non birthers we stayed on top of the outright lies and pointed the finger very firmly at the liars and their insane rantings.
This led to regular cries to Mommy Greta’s site admins/mods who basically ignored anything except death threats (almost exclusively by Birthers at Obots) to the extent that eventually the entire site was closed down.
Rikker, myself, Foggy and a few of the other posters here were the core refuters.
None of this was organized, there was no Mission Statement, just individuals with a profound disgust with the Birthers and their lies.
Sorry but sometimes you have to get down and dirty in the mud to fight for the things you feel need protecting.
And if they do get sued, it’s more justification for them to beg for donations.
Which is just fine. That will mean less money to be donated to TP candidates.
This reminds me of a scene in a local grocery store. A couple of obviously limited means were discussing their purchases. The man wanted to rent a movie. The woman wanted to buy milk. Eventually, this same decision has to be made by the people who keep pounding the paypal button.
Good for you. It’s about time that Corsi and Farah will be compelled to face the music for their lies.
I have a lot of respect for the online community here, and part of that is an expectation on my part that the community can think for themselves. For this reason I didn’t come down as hard on the WND article as I felt, just assuming that my readers would go read the source and be as outraged as I was .
I could write several paragraphs about outrage and “crossing the line,” but I figure folks can get that without any help from me.
I have to admit, posting pics of Foggy’s kids and pretty much posting his address on their site crossed the line for me. And that was the first 2 paragraphs. The rest was icing on the cake.
As an aside, good looking kids there Foggy. You look really proud of them and you should be.
LSOS Corsi constantly spouts “any day now”, he will soon find that fogggy’s “any day now” is the real one. Hip Hip HuuRay
wnd’s facebook page has been cleaned up. the real nasty comments are gone, as for the wnd story the comments are less than half of what they were. wnd is cleaning up, so take sceenshots and wish foggy success.
KBOA realizes, doesn’t she, that if Corsi is sued he will bring her in as a third party defendant? He will try to deflect the blame and shift the liability to his “source.” It won’t let Corsi off the hook for liability but it would let him find someone to share in paying the damages. Don’t think for a nanosecond that Corsi will willingly shoulder all the blame by himself.
I don’t see how this is significant.
But But Corsi said the birth certificate forger’s name was Mike……
Bravo and good luck to you, sir! Sorry that your life has been invaded and defamed by these jerks but glad to hear that you’re fighting back and holding them accountable.
Just a word to the wise — every republication of a defamatory statement subjects the original utterer and the republisher to additional liabilty. I expect the number of potential defendants to grow because some people cannot resist the urge to spread falsehoods. A certain California dentist comes to mind as do a couple of birther blog owners.
It appears to me that Foggy not only has a cause of action for libel, but also for harassment and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
Indulging in a petty personal feud is blog-quality material, not something a professional news organization engages in.
Objection! Assuming a fact not in evidence — that WND is a professional news organization.
Well, I think Doc’s point is: no matter what happened over on Gretawire it had no effect on the position of Barack Obama as President of the United States. We can “fight the smears” at every web portal in the universe, but I haven’t seen any court rely on our brilliance, nor has Congress or the President himself. Those institutions/persons seem to be doing just fine without the help of their debunking friends. Foggy’s recent letter to the AUSA providing history and context might be useful. Visiting birther websites to expose them as idiots? Not so much.
“I don’t know what WorldNetDaily gains by attacks like this. Indulging in a petty personal feud is blog-quality material, not something a professional news organization engages in.”
Well that’s the rub, isn’t it?
World Nut Daily is NOT a professional news organization in any real sense of the phrase.
World Nut Daily is a right wingnut conspiracy propaganda blog.
More well organized, staffed, and financed than many other conspiracy blogs perhaps, but that just means it’s a the top of a very odoriferous heap.
To suggest that World Nut Daily engages in serious journalism is an insult to actual journalists
Take this loser with you:
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/01/exposed-meet-two-vile-obots-bill-bryan.html
How true, raicha; but did you have to point out the superfluous nature of our existence so pointedly? Reminds me of something a fabled Scotsman observed (and he was a king, mind you, not a blogger)
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
“Macbeth,” Act V, scene v
Doc,
Unless the article has been changed or I missed it, I don’t see the word disbarred. Can you point it out? It does say no longer authorized to practice law. Concerning the pictures, what if they came from facebook? What I mean is, if you put pictures of your kids on facebook and accept someone as a friend, and somehow the pictures get around, I wonder at the liability? Personally, I think it STINKS to ever post a picture of someone’s kids.
Whilst I wholly agree that kicking the living crap out of Birthers has not had a direct affect on the Presidency, failing to do so is a greater potential harm.
Have we forgotten the plethora of BS Birther bills that were going around various of the state legislatures? They were stamped down THIS time, what about the next session, think the Birfoons and their fellow travelers will just fade away?
Loud mouthed, ignorant, Constitution hating Birfoons were the root of these and letting them get away wiith their cack unopposed is, in my personal opinion simply aiding the enemy.
Lets not pussy foot around here, these individuals see YOU as the enemy
They HATE each and every one of the non Birfoons who disagree with them.
They HATE, and I quote, “The nigger in our White House”
They HATE everything about the democratic processes that placed the President in office and the voters thereof.
Turning the other cheek is not an option with these types of people, accommodation is weakness as far as they are concerned.
If the arguments are not made and the lies not attacked then The Big Lie becomes entrenched and becomes the “new truth” and we have all seen multiple times in this last century where demonization of the other through these tactics will lead.
DUH! I see it in the title portion. Disbarred attorney…
AGREED.
for the benefit of charo (who seems to miss a lot)
the story title second line still says
“Disbarred attorney organized ‘birther punking’ scheme”
Yeah and since when is WND a news organization? They’ve peddled in gossip, smears, libel and conspiracy consistently over all these years.
It’s amusing to see the comments on ORYR.
True birthers and RWNJs.
Like proud roosters strutting around the coop, they don’t have to lay that egg they’re going to cause.
They did it with Fitzpatrick … then he got arrested.
They did it with Orly… then she got sanctioned $20K .
They even did it just with Lakin… then he went to prison.
Every time they cheered on a person that lost in the eyes of the law.
Do they not understand that libel is a real offense, they’ve met the burden of proof and are now making things worse?
Don’t they realize that personal info about themselves may become public record?
They just don’t seem to grasp that their domain is the internet and Foggy’s is the law.
Birthers on one side and experienced lawyers on the other?
They’ll lose like they always have.
They don’t understand how law works.
Pity the simpletons as they bury their martyred comrades.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t be opposed. I am saying some forms of opposition do not affect the outcome.
If you want to influence the outcome of proposed birther legislation, you contact the legislator.
I think you are giving the birther lunatic fringe far too much credit. They show no ability to formulate a law that meets constitutional standards or that has any hope of passage. Their legal efforts are led by morons. But it is certainly great fun to kick the living crap out of them. I’ll give you that.
I don’t usually read WND garbage, and even now I could only get halfway through before closing the page in disgust.
Best of luck in your legal pursuits Foggy.
Agreed and well said. 🙂
I corrected myself above.
On the contrary…remember Corsi’s Kerry bashing swiftboat book. And the mirroring, repeating on all manner of rightist radio, TV, columns, etc. Remember what happened to him? That’s right. the war hero lost to the dubya.
Woulda happened to Obama too if it weren’t for fighting back in good part by places like PJ, Fogbow, and our many excellent bloggers. If you ignore the repeated lies, smears, etc., it can and will grow, there will be enough idiots that buy in and make a difference on the streets and at the ballot box.
Sure it’s fun tweaking and exposing birfer lies. But it’s also very useful. Somebody has to pitch the shit out of the barn.
Good luck, Foggy. This sounds like it could be the first birther-related lawsuit with a good chance of success.
Here is my favorite take-away from the WND piece:
“Bryan and his associates have utilized the Internet to plan and promote their disruptive name-calling efforts.”
That’s right, folks. Birtherism is a shambles because of our disruptive name-calling efforts. Imagine what we could have done if we had managed to get our hands on some sticks and stones.
There are 2 reasons for posting Bill’s children in that article:
1) To anger and create fear for the parents of those little guys
2) Racism; good patriots only adopts Asian kids! Bill is a communist. He is obviously not a patriot because he adopted children who “aren’t just like us”.
Several of my Principal’s Koans apply to this issue, particularly The Man With Unclean Hands, and What The Thunder Said. Plus, Fabia Sheen, Esq., BFF of my principal, says that PJFogey’s lawsuit is not going to go very far without DAMAGES, and since PJFogey has NOT yet seen a therapist or sought medical treatment for the distress caused by this, he is up Rooster Creek Without A Paddle. Among other things.
The Head Researcher, as Agent
I see that my comment is the first one on the WND article. It wasn’t that way when I left it.
It’s kind of hard to decipher what you wrote here. But there are damages. Foggy doesn’t need to go to a therapist. He and his livelyhood has been threatened by a bunch of nutcases that read the article. That and the article was full of falsehoods. Foggy, being a private citizen has been libeled in the title of the article itself. There are plenty of damage and many witnesses. Corsi was an idiot for writing the article.
We prefer things that actually apply… in the real world.
But thanx for coming out, here’s a lollipop
I believe it is due to the way the comments are being sorted. They default to “Social Ranking” and you appear to be at the top. Put in chronological order, your comment appears where it was originally.
Never know.
Maybe some of these lying birthers will hire Orly.
Then Foggy will find himself in court against the famous “Constitutional attorney.”
We can hope anyway.
To a birther, woulda/shoulda/coulda DOES meet the burden of proof, as long as the “proof” agrees with them.
And, due to said picture, the floaters at Dr. Kate’s cesspool are throwing around pedophila allegations *rolls eyes* There really isn’t a level they won’t sink to.
My Principal hopes that PJFogey listens to your advice, and ignores anything said by her BFF Fabia Sheen, Esq. Such would provide the material for a whole ‘nother Koan, The Man Who Listened To Fools.
The Head Researcher, as Agent
Head Researcher,
Don’t you have some “Girl Reporting” to do?
I notice you don’t call yourself anything like “Ace Attorney”. Probably because you are not an attorney. Foggy has a real law degree. He doesn’t need your advice, no matter how free it is.
juust so you know:
every legal prediction made by foggy has been successful
every legal prediction by a birther has been a failure
HeadResearcher needs to bear this in mind
I had to go to the link to see that this is Squeeky’s blog. Hey, Squeeky. How would you like some Portuguese commenters for your ‘internet articles’?
Google “libel per se.”
Anyone who considers themselves a journalist, citizen or otherwise, and even bloggers, should understand the difference between libel per se and “libel per quod.”
Well said.
What a pack of absolutely disgusting people. Garbage…. human garbage.
My Principal notes that there are many things which should be understood. She greatly respects and has much faith in the advice of her BFF Fabia Sheen, Esq. My Principal truly prays that no other person here, including PJFogey, have any such respect for or reliance on Fabia Sheen, Esq. (See generally: Tee Hee! Tee Hee! ITYS! v. The Obotski. [cite omitted])
The Head Researcher, as Agent
Then your “principal” has nothing to worry about, because no one with any common sense relies on anything which comes from you.
Sounds more like head stoner than head researcher.
Damages are decided by a jury. In this case that would be a jury in the District of Columbia. Think about it — how well do you believe an ultra-conservative fact-challenged blogger and his editor would fare in that jurisdiction?
The damages issue is always a challenging part of these types of suits. However, even with minimal actual damages, someone who libels with actual malice can be liable for punitive damages in most states. Seems there is a good argument that such standard could be met here.
Neither my Principal, nor her BFF Fabia Sheen, Esq., are interested in winning any argument on this issue. A comment was made, and both my Principal and her BFF stand by that comment. If PJFogey and other Obotski, including lawyers, wish to ignore any information contained therein, then that is their right.
(See Generally: Gold Coins, Inc. v. MudFisher Tours, Ltd.)
The Head Researcher, as Agent
It’s brilliant! Corsi convinces [Foggy] to sue, loses, then appeals to the
Supreme Court, where they finally have to give him discovery, and the real BC is exposed. Oh wait, I’ve been drinking too much Campari.
But they are pretending to be such. I might not have made my point clear, but it is this petty episode that demonstrates that WND is just another right-wing propaganda blog with some money and some staff, and not the professional news organization that they want to appear as.
I can say a lawsuit by Foggy against Corsi would be meritless. Foggy would have to prove specific and exact damages that have been directly caused by Cori’s actions. As I see, there is nothing. In addition, everyone Corsi wrote about is publically available on the internet. You would also have to cite precident that a person who places public comments on the internet opens themselves up to attack. Sorry Foggy, but you just have no case against Dr. Corsi.
[James, remind me never to ask you for legal advice. Doc.]
Well, I do now!
It’s the second line of the article’s title:
Meet ‘PJ Foggy,’ birth certificate fraudster
Disbarred attorney organized ‘birther punking’ scheme
Well, I’ve never said that Orly Taitz was a poor dentist.
You seem to be confusing libel with slander. You do not have prove specific damages for libel, the publication of the false material is the damage, and the court is even entitled to grant punative damage.
It isn’t wheter the person is “publicly available on the internet” whatever that is supposed to mean, the question is whether the person is a public figure. Good luck trying to claim that a person posting under a pseudonym is a public figure. How about you provide some precident that the definition of a public figure is nearly that broad.
So at this point, all Foggy has to show that he was not disbarred, which is clear by the every “exhibits” that Corsi posts. Seems like a slam dunk to me.
I see James is here, committing legal malpractice. Libel per se ASSUMES damages, Jimmy Boy, so proof is not a problem. Once the right to damages is established, as when the plaintiff is the victim of libel per se, then punitive damages are awardable for malicious or recklessness in the publication of the falsehoods.
Whether the defamatory material is already available is irrelevant. If it is false and you publish it or republish it (disseminate it further) you are liable. And you are liable if YOUR defamatory statements are repeated by others.
WND was sued for a very similar libel several years ago. Farah is prohibited by the terms of the settlement agreement from disclosing how much WND had to pay the private citizen that his online publication defamed by claiming the man had committed a criminal act. Others, including bloggers, were named as co-conspirators for being the source of the false claim.
FYI — I will post a link to that case when I get home to my computer. The complaint filed in that case shows an eery and disturbing parallel to what WND published today.
Yes Doc, as I pointed out to another, I corrected myself hours ago.
Jones v. Hays, et al. – Second Amended Complaint: http://www.citmedialaw.org/sites/citmedialaw.org/files/2004-12-20-Jones%20Second%20Amended%20Complaint.pdf
On appeal, the Tennessee Court of Appeals held that WorldNetDaily.com could not rely on statements of anonymous sources to make out its defense of truth without revealing the identity of those sources. The parties settled out of court for an undisclosed sum in 2008. As part of the settlement, WND published this statement:
“f what the witnesses are reported by authors to have stated. Additionally, no document has been discovered that provides any verification that the statements written were true.
“Factual discovery in the litigation and response from Freedom of Information Act requests to law enforcement agencies confirm Clark Jones’ assertion that his name has never been on law enforcement computers, that he has not been the subject of any criminal investigation nor has he interfered with any investigation as stated in the articles. Discovery has also revealed that the sources named in the publications have stated under oath that statements attributed to them in the articles were either not made by them, were misquoted by the authors, were misconstrued, or the statements were taken out of context.
“WorldNetDaily.com and its editors never intended any harm to Clark Jones and regret whatever harm occurred. WorldNetDaily.com has no verified information by which to question Mr. Jones’ honesty and integrity, and having met him, has no claim or reason to question his honesty and integrity. WorldNetDaily.com wishes him well.” http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56353
GeorgeJD:
After the conversation she had with her BFF Fabia Sheen, Esq., my Principal is not surprised at all by Page 16 of the legal thingy.
The Head Researcher, as Agent
Hahaha, posting facts can’t get you in any trouble!
How’s it feel to get a taste of your own medicine!
Only Foggy wasn’t disbarred. It’s all there in your video, he voluntarily gave up his license. So saying he was disbarred can get you in a lot of trouble. I hope this doesn’t ruin your life, but it could.
LOLOL, it’s you Fogbow people that made the EXPOSING happen. Doc tried to tell you all over and over, but no one wanted to listen to him. He tried to warn all of you and you laughed at him! NOW, you must deal with the consequences of your actions! This could have ALL been avoided! SUCK IT UP!
Only I never exposed anyone, but you put me in your video and lied about me anyway. So you will pardon me for not being sympathetic to your plight once the WND lawsuit goes to trial and Corsi says that you made him do it.
You might want to talk to a lawyer.
YAP YAP YAP, Foggy lost his license for being an addict and for his fraud with the cases he took on and ignored because of his addiction. The outcome is the SAME as being disbarred, so what’s the friggin difference?. A judge will laugh at Foggy, when he sees his CA Bar record and all the harassment and slander he has committed!
You can sure dish it out, but have a hard time taking it!
FAILLLLL!
LOLOL, KBOA MADE me do it! Uh HUH!
AND what is in my video that is a LIE about you? NUTTIN!
[Specifically your video lies about me when it says:
“He’s always so busy putting out fake/false info” and “He attacks and writes articles about people that are complete lies.” Doc.]
Could you really be as childish and foolish as you sound? There is no right in this country to lie about people. Doing so makes you vulnerable to lawsuits. That’s why media organizations employ fact checkers, so they don’t open themselves to liability. If you venture outside Birther world into reality, expect the rules to change.
Uhhh, isn’t Fabia Sheen a cartoon character?
If your “facts” are false they can. And yours are.
foggy’s track record on legal matters 100%
KBOA’s track record 0%
be prepared KBOA, be prepared.
this will be fun!
Yes. Fabia Sheen is her nom de plume. She is a lawyer, and you don’t think she is going to use her real name, do you??? Fabia could care less about any of this stuff and thinks my Principal is wasting her time on it. She will, however, explain legalities and help my Principal when she asks it. They are BFFs.
The Head Researcher, as Agent
sounds like orly!
No, merely another one of Jennifer4Hillarys imaginary voices in her head.
Scenario 1: “That man was executed for the crime of mass murder!”
Scenario 2: “That man died peacefully in his sleep.”
SAME RESULT IN THE END RIGHT?
Words mean things – particularly in the legal sphere. Two paths to the same end result are not identical and one can be libelous while the other is not.
So according to WND, I am another of PJ Foggy’s secret identities…Really? WND is a joke, they nor Corsi can’t even get their attempts to smear correct. Is this supposed to scare the people against the birthers from posting, by making us think that some birther out there is saving our commentary? Whatever. I am amused that as “Black Lion” the birthers are afraid enough of me to make this nonsense up. And it looks like they are really scared of Foggy and rikker. I find this very amusing.
Another one who might be in trouble: Dr. Kate, for encouraging the “Foggy is a pedophile” rants on her blog. Any of the lawyers here want to weigh in on this?
Finally – the crazies on the WND Facebook page told me to go load my non-existent children into my non-existent minivan and go get a pixie cut. Pixie cut? Huh?
I should mention that something similar was said about Michelle Obama (although she wasn’t facing any disciplinary action when she petitioned the court to put her in “inactive” status).
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/michelle-obama-disbarred/#comment-4328
looks like dr k(h)ate is also repeating the `disbarred´ accusation as well.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/06/16/walter-fitzpatrick-reports-pj-foggy-disbarred-attorney-and-obama-supporter-to-the-fbi/
gonna add her too foggy?
There is a gray area, and depending on what you mean by “encouraging.” I believe the Communications Decency Act give protection to companies that are merely hosting somewhere posting messages, so if someone posts liabelous material on a Yahoo message board, Yahoo cannot be sued. I haven’t checked to see if there is any case law as to how far down to blogs that protection may extend, but it is arguable that to the extent that Dr. K(h)ate is merely allowing free posts on her blog, she has some protection. To the extent she is participating an encouraging such libelous postings, obviously the protection of the CDA disappears….Again, this answer is done just on what I have on the top of my head, and I haven’t really done the full research on it. But just a starting point.
It doesn’t matter. One of the birthers told me the world ends on September 26 (brown dwarf star flies by the Earth).
@JoeZeppy
All comments at DrK(H)ates are moderated and have to be approved by eiither Dr Kate ot I believe one of here acolytes “Troy” to be posted.
These details are something would be the subject of some real research, and it is very possible there is no case law on this specific subject. The case can certainly be made that being a moderated board, and allowing the posts, she has adopted them as her own. There certainly is enough there on just my general knoweldge of the CDA to think there is at least a colorable claim that would survive a Motion to Dismiss, but again, there may be some case law out there that I am not aware of that has the answer. This is clearly not a simple case of her hosting a message board, and only examining messages if there are complaints. Again, I am not sure how far the courts have read the protections of the CDA.
Did a tiny bit of research. It does appear that as long as Dr. K(h)ate does not add anything, she very well may be protected by the CDA. There is a NY State case (note again, it is a NY State case, which means it only persuasive in any non NY State court), SHIAMILI v. REAL ESTATE GROUP OF N.Y., INC., that would imply the immunity for a blog owner in reference to 3rd party posted messages, even extends to moderated bolgs. Still reading the case over, but that is what I have (I thought I said I wasn’t going to do any research on the subject).
KBOA’s prediction is “FAILLLLL!”
we have seen KBOA’s previous predictions here, so we know her track record.!
Here’s one of the other things I don’t get –
What is WND’s and Corsi’s motivation here? Revenge for WTBC not selling like they hoped? Seriously. They’re going for outright libel in posting some of this stuff and if not that they’re at the least putting these people in danger as they are getting threats. How does that work in any way in WND’s favor?
You’d think after WND was forced to make a payout and retract things in the past they would be more careful. I guess they’re working under the assumption that no one will bother going after them.
You Fogbow people??? Hey clueless, did you get confused at which site you are posting at? This *IS NOT* Fogbow. I have no connection to Fogbow and don’t know nor care about what your are talking about. Please take and direct your arguments to where they belong and stop trying to pull unrelated 3-rd parties, websites and posters into your little personal schoolyard spat.
LOL! I guess poor Harold Camping is *still* off by a month… 😉
So far, this is the first I’ve heard of the 9/26/11 “Brown Dwarf Star” EOTW scenario… I wonder where that Birther pulled it from…
I view it merely as a flailing and childish temper tantrums from a bunch of ego-driven and unhinged sore losers. I’m sure their failing book sales and also all the $$$ they had to spend desperately buying their own books to fake their intial ranking numbers is really chafing on them…
Hubris, greed and bigotry are strong motivators.
Why do you think most of really care about being outed. Most of us have nothing to hide but like keeping our anonymity like most internet posters. Really sad you think this is some kind of big accomplishment. The joke is on you since you are opening up yourself to libel suits from actual lawyers. Really smart.
“Hubris, greed and bigotry are strong motivators”
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Corsi’s slanders both on his Kerry and Obamas book saw no consequences, so why worry on this one. Let’s hope he learns his lesson on this one. (financially painfull)
You sound just like a husband beating his wife while yelling, “Why do you make me do this to you?” It is possible for you to live a life that is not consumed by bitterness. The process of getting control of your life back from those to whom you have ceded it (birthers who take advantage of you and Obots who ridicule you) would probably be long and painful, but you would ultimately be a lot happier.
Who knows? But Snow White’s publicist has refused to comment.
True, but for better or worse those were public figures and have a much higher threshold when it comes to these things. I think that Kerry should have gone on the offensive much sooner on that issue, but he did not and therefore let it gain enough traction that it “became truth”. They can and will slander Obama all day in their little echo chambers – but attacking private citizens, IMO, is a different line to cross.
Alas for poor old Dr K(H)ate she is a prolific poster, agitator and censor on her posted threads. there are multile occassions where she specificslly allows an “obot” comment through, waits for the guano ones to respond then removes the original comment so it has no context.
So yes, she is most certainly “adding something”
The distinction is that she cannot be held liable for third party content. Her actual additions she is liable for. Also, any actions normally associated with an editor (deleting, moving, or other lateration of text) do not open her up to liability. Also, the decision as to whether publish a post or not does not create liability. All that she can be held liable for are her own words on the blog.
Sadly, that is how courts are interpreting the CDA.
Does anyone else think that this is some twisted way for Farah and Corsi to keep his birther book on peoples’ minds? Sales are embarrassingly low, but perhaps ramping up the birthers will this stuff might make them more likely to buy one of the autographed copies.
If anyone’s interested in more information on Jones v. Hays et al (the libel lawsuit against WND), I’ve written about it here and here. Included are copies of notable filings in the case, which I obtained when I went to Tennessee in 2007 (pre-settlement) to review them.
Good point. I’m sure all the bulk copies they bought of their own book are taking up too much space and they need some creative way to unload them on the gullible…
That was interesting. Thanks.
I don’t know. NASA reports that there are currently 175 books out predicting doomsday in 2012, but maybe somebody has a different clock.
http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/intro/nibiru-and-doomsday-2012-questions-and-answers
http://fora.tv/2009/02/04/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_Pluto_Files#Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_World_Will_Not_End_in_2012
LOL! Thanks for the links. A quick google search turned up some links for the 9/26/11 doomsday scenario. I’ll share just a few. Seems this is really a bunch of pseudo-nut overhype about a real comet (Comet Elenin) which the conspiracy crowd claim it is a “dwarf star” and are tying it to the Planet X/Niburu bunkum.
Like all good conspiracies, the proponents of this nonsense start with a few grains of actual real science and then divulge into making a bunch of imaginary and unsupportable connect-the-dots conclusions. How they come up with a “dwarf star” out of a small comet with a tiny diameter of only 2, perhaps 2.5 miles total is beyond me.
This “Mr. Terral” seems to be one of the biggest people trying to fluff this crazy myth and intentionally make it “go viral”. If you watch the video, you’ll notice the guy also mentions 9/11 and other conspiracy stuff off the cuff… Why am I not surprised… the typical conspiracy-minded pattern at work, which is why I’m really starting to view paranoid conspiracy belief as a form of mental illness or defect.
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2011/05/23/elenin-dwarf-star-warning-september-26-2011-by-terral/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqV0StQbJQs&feature=player_embedded
Those NASA links you gave were great. Folks can find out some more real good info about the actual Comet Elenin (which did happen to just be discovered in Dec 2010) and about the whole history of the Planet X/Niburu nonsense on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Elenin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_collision
Here is one quick summary paragraph that addressesComet Elenin specifically:
I want to end with pondering one interesting observation about this latest 9/26/11 myth that I took away from the NASA links you sent. It seems that certain increases in concern among the populace of falling for doomsday scenarios can be directly linked to the release (or even just marketing campaigns) of EOTW-themed movies.
Both Tyson and NASA mentioned the 2009 release of “2012” and its campaign often for a huge increase in inquiries of “Planet X”, even though the connection of “Planet X” to any doomsday scenario was not even the plot of the film, but merely a minor link of associated EOTW conspiracies on some of the fake websites created to support the movie’s marketing campaign.
I was wondering why I hadn’t heard about this 9/26/11 doomsday nonsense before now, until my brief research shows that this is pretty much a new myth that seems to have been created just last month, in May of 2011, with a big intentional push to make it “go viral”.
Two interesting events spring to mind – the failure of Harold Camping’s EOTW nonsense prediction just before that and some small attention given to the Cannes Film Festival release of the film “Melancholia” (which has a doomsday planet theme) around that time…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melancholia_(2011_film)
Just some more interesting points to ponder that I thought I would share…
Yeah there was a bit of activity about it on “Above Top Secret” last year. I’ve gone off ATS lately, so I don’t know how current the buzz is.
The junior high kids seem to really like this kind of stuff, and the high school kids are probably giggling through the smoke haze in their parents basement. Some is fun to read but it does get old after a while.
I can only assume it is the kids who haven’t had enough science, astronomy and basic common sense in their background… 😉
the brown dwarf star is real, but not what you would think
In the year 2356 a brilliant scientist, deep in space, learns a technique that allows him to turn things into their literal meanings. If you took a piece of paper and wrote the word “apple pie” on it, and then zapped it with the reality ray, it would become an apple pie.
The scientist’s insane tech assistant finds the outernet archive of the Birther Nation, and turns the reality ray on it in order to see what happens. A star-sized pile of bull!@#$ results, destroying the lab and everything nearby.
The good news is that the scientists were able to send the star elsewhere in time and space. the bad news is that it’s heading for September of 2012, and we’re in the flight path.
Only science can save us now!