(Anyone who calls his blog: “A Place to Ask Questions and Get the Right Answers,” assuming by “right” he means “correct” rather than “right wing,” has already pled guilty to the charge of arrogance.)
In Friday’s installment of “right answers” Mr. Apuzzo offers a new article titled: All That Is Wrong with Georgia State Judge Michael M. Malihi’s Decision that Putative President Obama Is a “Natural Born Citizen.”
Apuzzo starts off with the big lie (highlighted in blue):
Ignorance of the record is no excuse. I was in the court room in Atlanta on January 26 and I saw plenty of evidence Obama was born in the United States. The case presented on behalf of Mr. Welden included Exhibit 1: Birth Certificate, Barack Obama, II. In his presentation, attorney Van Irion referred to the Certificate and relied on its contents to show that Barack Obama, Sr. Was born in Kenya. See Hearing Transcript beginning on Page 5:
Q Showing the witness what has been marked for identification as Plaintiff’s 1. Are you familiar with that document?
A Yes. (The document referred to was marked for identification as Plaintiff’s Exhibit Number 1.)
Q What is it?
A It’s the birth certificate that I downloaded from the WhiteHouse.gov website. It’s a birth certificate professed to be of Barack Hussein Obama
Q And do you see an item on line 8 — I’m sorry, excuse me — on item 11. Can you read that?
A Yes, item 11 says the birthplace is Kenya, East Africa.
Q And that’s referring to —
A That is the birthplace of the father.
MR. IRION: Move to have exhibit marked for identification Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1 into the record.
JUDGE MALIHI: Plaintiff’s 1 is in the record. (The document, heretofore marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit Number 1, was received in evidence.)
So what part of “received in evidence” does Mr. Apuzzo not understand? The certificate was entered into evidence and relied upon by the Plaintiff’s argument. It shows Barack Obama born in Honolulu, Hawaii.
It gets worse, however. Orly Taitz was the great font of evidence against her own case. In addition to several copies of the already-submitted Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, she offered something new, and this came in Exhibit 7, a Freedom of Information Act response from the U. S. Department of State. It’s on page 123 of her Exhibits.
Look at what it says: "birth in Honolulu, Hawaii, Aug. 4, 1961." (You know, I swear I can see "kerning" in that type. Look at “si” in “considered”.)
Of course, Mr. Apuzzo was in such a hurry to carry out damage control and get an article up the same day as the Judge’s ruling that I suppose he didn’t actually have time to read these rather lengthy Exhibits, even though he made claims about it.
Those in the courtroom were treated to a video presentation by Orly Taitz showing the Indonesian school registration form for “Barry Soetoro.” It also states that the President was born in Hawaii. It is possible that this document didn’t get entered into the record, but it was mentioned in testimony and shown to the Court.
Mr. Hatfield (so that we can see that evidence of Obama’s birth in Hawaii was presented in all three cases) submitted Exhibit 6, and elicited testimony from Kenneth Allen that Exhibit 6 was a true copy of a FOIA response from the Immigration Service. This is from that Exhibit:
Look at what it says: “They have one child born Honolulu on 8/8/1961.”
So why would Mr. Apuzzo publish something that is so blatant a lie?
It rests on what the definition of “is” is.
In the Clinton case, the President said “there is no sexual relation” (if memory serves me right) allowing the reasonable listener to understand something different from the truth, although technically perhaps not a lie. Here Clinton means means “is now” rather than “ever has been.” In the case of Mr. Apuzzo, the careful reader who reads his entire paper (and birthers are not known for reading things carefully) might see that when Apuzzo says that there is no “evidence” before the court, what he means that there is no “probative evidence”. He might make an argument based on the judge’s comments on Orly Taitz’s presentation:
The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value.
However, that remark applies solely to Orly Taitz’s case, not the witnesses of Welden, Powell and Swensson, where a reasonable foundation was laid for the President’s long-form birth certificate. Testimony stated that the certificate came from an official government web site.
I do not know if the judge saw the State Department determination that Obama was born in Hawaii from the Allen FOIA, and it certainly had no probative value in Orly’s contentions that the President’s birth certificate is a forgery, he committed social-security fraud and goes by a false name, but Mr. Allen testified that Exhibit 7 was a true copy of his FOIA response from the Department of State. I think a sufficient foundation was laid that this document was an official US Government document. So despite Apuzzo’s weasel words, he fails to mitigate his lie. There was probative evidence submitted that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, and the Judge recognized at least one piece of it. I also note that the Defense also sent a copy of the Certificate to the Court.
The Ankeny case
Now that we have established Mr. Apuzzo’s disregard for truth and accuracy, why should we even pay attention when he says:
upon close analysis, we can see that Ankeny is far from persuasive on the definition of a “natural born Citizen.” …But an analysis of that decision shows that it was incorrectly decided as to its definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”
A three-judge panel in the Indiana Court of Appeals who wrote it found it persuasive. The Hearing Officer and Legal Advisor, and the Illinois Board of Elections found it persuasive just this past Thursday. Judge Malihi in Atlanta found it persuasive on Friday. A federal judge (in the Tisdale case) made an argument similar to Ankeny two weeks ago deciding a ballot challenge in Virginia. What foundation has Apuzzo laid supporting himself as an expert witness? Birthers always say the courts are wrong when they rule against them. What’s significant when another one says the same thing?
In support of his contention, however, Apuzzo uses his second big lie:
[The Indiana Court’s decision in Ankeny] as to what a “natural born” Citizen is has no historical or legal support.
I refer the reader to the decision of the court itself and in particular to pages 14-17 for a refutation of the lack of historical or legal support. And in any case, Apuzzo’s objection is silly because any court in the land may safely rely on the United States Supreme Court, and the Indiana Court of Appeals did reply on the US Supreme Court’s decision in US v. Wong. I suppose Apuzzo thinks the Supreme Court is wrong too.
How does Apuzzo justify this obviously false statement? One need look very carefully at his unique definition of “historical or legal support.” For example, any normal reader would consider a Supreme Court decision “legal support.” However, Apuzzo limits “historical or legal support” to the following:
- Discussion of Framer’s original intent
- Discussion of the purpose for inserting the clause
- Independent historical research
- Sources from the Founding Period
There are many problems with that definition of “historical or legal support.” The most obvious is that the cases cited are legal support, without question. Also by citing US v Wong and using it for “guidance”, anything in Wong is reasonably part of the support of the decision. Apuzzo is complaining that the Court in Ankeny didn’t re-argue a case already decided by the Supreme Court.
Apuzzo’s limited definition is of little practical use, since there is no record from the Constitution Convention of any explanation of the reason for inserting the clause. Scholars generally refer to contemporary rumors that the convention was going to invite some foreign royal to be King of the United States, or that there were concerns about a foreigner coming to the United States, naturalizing, and buying his way into office. The John Jay letter is instructive, but of little value since it doesn’t define a “foreigner, ” but surely Jay didn’t consider George Washington a “foreigner” even though Washington’s father died a British subject. Further there is no need for “independent research” by a state court when the research has already been done by the Supreme Court in the case relied upon. Apuzzo uses a sham definition, and even then his conclusion is still false.
Why take the trouble to write this?
One crank lawyer, more or less, doesn’t matter very much. What matters, though, is that sections of Apuzzo’s article are being cut and pasted all over the Internet. People in droves are mindlessly saying that the Indiana Court decision had no historical or legal support, when it actually did. Birthers are mindlessly repeating that no evidence was in the record showing Barack Obama born in the United States based on Apuzzo’s lie. That I find most annoying.
taitz’s “emergency appeal” to sos kemp for which she didn’t receive authorization from farrar
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80486661/2012-02-04-Farrar-v-Obama-Emergency-Appeal-to-Secretary-of-State-Kemp
farrar was asked:
David, did Orly get your approval for her latest filing in this case? Are you comfortable with her accusing Mahili and other public officials of criminal activity and demanding they be investigated? If you disapprove, what actions do you plan to take to disassociate yourself from this behaviour. If she is sanctioned as a result, do you plan to pay her fine?
his response
February 5th, 2012
9:50 am
Certainly not. And rest assured, I will address this issue with Sec. Kemp as soon as Monday morning.
ex animo
davidfarrar
February 5th, 2012
8:29 am
I was unauthorized. I am in the process of addressing this issue with my attorney even as we speak.
Thank you for your heads up in this regard.
remember when rhodes wrote to the court about taitz?
SANCTIONS followed
No surprise here Doc. Mario is just plain intellectually dishonest. We already knew that. The interesting question is, will he handle Kerchner’s BS challenge in PA? That could bring the sanctions that the Third Circuit should have imposed on Mario for his intellectual dishonesty with them. The sanctions need to be significant too, something that will take him at least 10 DWI fees to pay.
John Woodman wrote quite a bit about the Birther misinterpretation of Minor and WKA. It was for the most part directed at Donofrio’s nonsense but it applies to Apuzzo as well.
http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/02/why-the-birthers-lost/
Check the comments too.
Since the Georgia court cannot enforce a judgment against someone out of state, I doubt they will bother.
i wish obama would just open the vault to end this long national nightmare…
Thanks for the excellent link, Reality Check.
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I have already posted on this site that current HDOH regulations do not permit certified copies of standard birth certificates to be prepared by computer printout. Consequently, any copies of certified standard certificates that have been produced by digital scanning and printing are necessarily alterations of a certified document and are therefore forgeries.
Hawaii law does not permit replacement copies of standard certificates to be prepared by computer scanning and printing.
§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]
Moreover the word “stipulated” appears nowhere in Judge Malihi’s ruling. Therefore, the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii could not have been stipulated by the plaintiffs” attorneys.
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This is what I run up against the birthers in my area. I am not sure what to call it. They are speaking English, but they insert obscure words (ones that most of the population do not use) in the argument and usually that stops me because I am like “what?”.
In addition to being horribly delusional, Mario has precisely zero sense of humor and a skin as thin as tissue paper and got very cranky with me when I posted this over at CAAFlog during the Lakin trial…..
Mario meets The Supremes….
Justice Alito: Mr Apuzzo, I would….
Mario: Esquire
Justice Alito: I beg your pardon
Mario: It’s Mr Appuzzo Esquire, I’m a lawyer you know.
Justice Alito: I am fully aware you are a lawyer Mr Apuzzo, you’re here arguing a case.
Mario: It’s important to get the terminology right, I paid good money for the Esq.
Justice Scalia: OK already, we get it, the Esq is given lets move on.
Justice Alito: Thanks Tony, moving on, Mr Apuzzo, your case is one that seeks….
Mario: I object
Justice Alito: What ! What do you mean you object, I’m trying to describe your case how can you object to that?
Mario: They are here !!!
Justice Scalia: What, what are you talking about, who is here..?
Mario: Them, those two, over there in the black robes
Justice Thomas: We all wear black robes, that’s all I’m saying and it’s not dicta.
Justice Roberts: Sammy, what’s he saying, look can we hurry up, she who must be obeyed has a long Honey-Do list for me for Christmas
Justice Alito: Mr Apuzzo, just WHAT or WHO are you objecting to?
Mario: Those two there, (points wildly)
Justice Alito: From your frenetic semaphore I take it you mean Justices Sotomayer and Kagan
Mario: Yeah, them two, shouldn’t be here
Justice Kagan: I got this Sammy, OY, paisan, what’s your problem with me, ’cause I’m a woman, ’cause I use Jewish words or ’cause I’m from Noo Yawk. Well, spit it out, don’t keep me waiting.
Mario: You didn’t recuse yourselves that’s why AND YOU KNOW WHY !!!
Justice Kagan: No Joisey, I don’t “know why” why don’t you enlighten Sonia, me and the boys
Mario: You were nominated by the Usurper so you’re tainted, begone by the power of Vattel vested in me.
Justice Sotomayer: Vatell…Vattel, what’s he babbbling about, ¦anyone..?
Justice Kennedy: I seem to remember something from. .no not that’s it ..no…¦Don’t they make childrens toys? Is this a consumer safety case? I thought it was an electoral issue?
Mario: NO not Mattel, Vatte, Vattel he is the most significant contributor to the Constitution and defined Natural Born Citizen, its’ all in my briefs
Justice Ginsburg: I remember, part of a pop quiz back in ’56 at Harvard, “Who was cited the LEAST in the Federalist Papers but had a minor input on international relation definitions in the Constitution”, no one got it, we couldn’t even agree how his name was spelled or his nationality. Nasty ideas but a creature of his time.
Justice Breyer: Oh no..Johnny, he’s a bloody Birther, what in the name of Beelzebubs left nut are we doing with this. We had this chat over 2 years ago
Justice Kagan: A Birfer…A Joisy Birfer..A Joisy Birfer who things he can tell ME to recuse myself? Sammy, did you set this up?
Justice Alito: I’m sorry, a friend asked if I could have a look, I owed him a favor, what can I say. Maybe when I saw all the clerks sending his brief around as a punk’d email I should have looked a little closer.
Mario: I demand they recuse themselves it’s a plot by Soros.
Justice Scalia: Shut it….Sammy, I get it, I understand but really, Birfoons in the court, we had this out when that Mad Cow Orly was around, no Birfoons except at the Christmas party for light entertainment.
Justice Alito: Sorry all, I’ll make it up for everyone in the Christmas present
Mario: But..
Justice Roberts: Can it “esquire”, frivolous case, inherently valeless, a waste of this courts time, what say you ? Show of hands..OK done
Mario: But my case..it’s a Konstitutional Krisis.!!
Justice Roberts: Can it or the sanctions here will make Orly swoon. Bailiff, escort “esquire” from the courts and if he gives you any trouble……
Mario: (voice receding) Let me FEEEENISH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHFrom Judge Malihi’s ruling:
“The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to
be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs’
allegations.3”
“None of the testifying witnesses provided persuasive testimony. Moreover, the
Court finds that none of the written submissions tendered by Plaintiffs have probative
value. Given the unsatisfactory evidence presented by the Plaintiffs, the Court concludes
that Plaintiffs’ claims are not persuasive.”
Thus if we are to believe Dr. C. then we are also to believe that the judge proceeded to conclude that Obama was born in Hawaii from the evidence presented.
Sure!…When pigs can fly!
He has made available his BC and LFBC. Is he supposed to mail a verified copy to everyone who demands validation?
There are a lot of things I keep private. If I were in the same boat, I would have only released the BC and my Tax statements. That’s it nothing else, deal with it. I have nothing to hide, but it does not mean that I keep my front door wide open.
If my boss knocked on my door and asked to search my computer for stolen documents with no warrant. I would decline. I have done it….and found a better place to work.
You see, the jokes on you.
Ok, we get it: you love capital “H’s,” even though you refuse to use one in the initial letter of your moniker. Fine, you’re a regular e.e. cummings; but maybe could you learn to use the “Quote” function?
Speaking of learning, you should check out the link provided by Reality Check, you might learn– . . . oh, never mind.
So it could be examined by Orly? That would be like asking Madeline Murray O’Hare to authenticate the Shroud of Turin.
Not his vault to open. And it will never end for you and your birther buds. The ‘nightmare’ is in your mind. Wake up!
Why? To humor a clinically insane refusenik? Let her stew, along with Avigdor Lieberman.
Did you fail reading comprehension in high school? The section of the decision where Malihi says that the witnesses were unpersuasive refers only to Orly’s witnesses.
The decision is in two parts. Part 1 refers only to Orly’s arguments and evidence on behalf of Farrar, Lax, Judy, Malaren and Roth.
Part 2 refers to the arguments and evidence introduced on behalf of Welden, Swensson and Powell. In Part 2 Malihi makes no criticism at all about the evidence their attorneys provided. The transcript is clear that Irion and Hatfield entered the birth certificate into evidence.
Someone has had a few sleepless nights, I see.
No, “typewritten” does not exclude computer printouts. It’s “typewritten” as opposed to “handwritten”, not “written with a typewriter” as opposed to a technically different kind of printing device.
First, scanning and printing isn’t an “alteration”. Alteration necessarily requires a modification of the contents. Then again I always assumed your birfer Hail Mary would be “but there’s a coffee stain on the vault birth certificate, that invalidates it!”.
Second, an alteration isn’t necessarily a forgery. Only an alteration of the contents that is tried to pass off as if the altered content was the original content can, by definition, be a “forgery”.
I could take Obama’s vault BC, copy it in red letters on a piece of toilet paper and it would not be a forgery. The result may not be something Hawaii considers an official document, but it would not be a forgery.
Actually Section 2 refers to all defendants.
It may be better to just let the birther sleep. Then he can keep dreaming that the President is going to be marched out of the White House in shackles and chains.
Apparently he sent something to Pravda:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/06-02-2012/120426-Georgia_Judge_Michael_Malihi-0/
His article is among the “most popular” alongside “Algeria shows NATO the door” and “Electric vibrator was invented for men, not for women”.
Confirming my long-held views that Meretricious Mario is but a sock puppet hired by some right-wing to put out propaganda — noting again that Mario had steadfastly refused to deny this.
Stanislaw,
Not to get too technical, but the correct phraseology for this birther meme is “frog-marched” out of the White House.
Excellent point! Please suggest a cure for sleep typing? Seems to be chronic, and a mini-epidemic. 😉
Yeah…
If Mario and Leo really believe the nonsense they spoonfeed their gullible flocks, then why don’t they put their time and money where their brash keyboard mouth is and jump back into trying to represent these Birther clients in these cases…
…They don’t because even they know deep down that their nonsense won’t fly and they would only be adding to their already pathetic loss records and exposing themselves to possible sanctions…
No, they are nothing but a bunch of failed has-been cranks, who can only bellow hot air and who don’t have the balls to still put their money where their mouth is…
As you know, my theory is that Mario is handsomely paid to put out the indefensible with a straight face, like a mob lawyer, for instance, who’ll tell anyone that Tony Soprano is a honest waste management consultant. Judging from his past, he isn’t a “crank”, he’s laughing all the way to the bank.
Mario and Leo have the perfect case all set up for them in Virginia. They need to hook up with Charles Tisdale to file an appeal in the 4th Circuit. The only thing standing in their way is another round of sanctions and/or fees. 😆
Well, 3 things I wanted to point out about that Pravda online article:
1st – In the comments – hilarious that the Birtheristani there view it as part of their “mainstream media”. LOL! It has always been a third-rate online tabloid trash rag and rabid with Birtherism. That it publishes an article of Birtherism outrage is about as unusual as water being wet.
2nd: The most ironic paragraph, taking Birther Projection to new heights, was the following:
Oh silly Birthers! *You* are the fools who are making and trying to pursue unfounded claims here. You are the boy coming to his father in this scenario… *duh* You are the ones clinging to desperate fantasies of the father punishing him and taking you out for ice cream and toy shopping. Sorry, but you need to wake up and realize that you’re never going to get your magic pony, no matter how many lies you tell or how hard you stomp your feet and wail at the top of your lungs…
The third and final point of the article I want to bring up is the most disturbing, and where I only mention what they did, for the sake of totally condemning their practice of attempted incitement on obvious display. I am redacting the poor judge’s contact info that they put up on purpose (with XXX), as I will not further propogate their nasty goal of intentional harassment:
Notice the vile and insincere tactic on display in the first paragraph. It is their CYA attempt, so they can feign denial at a later point, if someone were to “act” upon their not-so-subtle suggestions of terrorizing the judge and his family. It is similar to Concern Trolling as a tactic in its insincerity (more like Concern Threatening) and these retched, rancid clowns need to understand that everyone else clearly sees through the veneer of such language. If anything happens, the author deserves to be held accountable and the proper authorities should be made aware of their very irresponsible letter in making these not-so-cleverly-veiled threats…
I have to take a closer look at the transcript. Did Orly make the two-citizen parent argument? I know that the other plaintiffs made only that argument.
In any event, Malihi did not comment on the evidence presented by Irion and Hatfield, only their legal arguments.
Yeah, at least in Mario’s case, I’ve always suspected there is a source of money behind his machinations. He won’t get involved with most of the other Birther plaintiffs out there, simply because those folks are usually a bunch of stiffs and there isn’t enough big bucks for him to fleece out of them.
Obviously, Kerchener is the key link to wherever the “big money” funding behind a lot of Birtherism resides. Not only is he and his family linked to Apuzzo, but also to the Terry Lakin Fund. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised to find these same connections tied to whoever Dean Haskin’s “Sugar Daddy” is either. The only other “big money” propoganda links behind Birtherism seem to go back to WND and Gary Kreep…
But beyond funding, yeah, it is definitely clear that for both Mario and Leo, they’ve gotten their @sses kicked in the courts for this already and deep down realize what thin ice their own “legal careers” are on, if they try to pull these stunts again. They will lie to the public and their followers, because doing such comes naturally to both of those narcissistic two-bit players. But deep down, they know better and because of that, they don’t have the balls to try their petty parlour games in a real court again…
I think you have to accomplish something to be a has been. Not only do they both misinterpret the law in comical fashion, they say things that make no sense at all. For example from Apuzzo:
“Ankeny was advisory on the “natural born Citizen” issue because it gave us its definition of a “natural born Citizen” but never applied that definition to Obama’s personal situation. It resolved no real controversy. After it pronounced what the law was, it needed to apply that law to the facts. It needed to find that Obama was born in the United States and that he was thus a “natural born Citizen” to give its opinion any binding effect. It never made the finding that Obama was born in the United States. It never said that such a fact was established by the evidence before the court. So its whole opinion on what is a “natural born Citizen” is purely advisory.”
It is bad enough that he has no idea what an advisory opinion is, but it is breathtaking for a lawyer to think that the court had to declare Obama a “natural born citizen” for the opinion to have binding effect. It is astounding that he doesn’t know that since plaintiff has the burden of proof, the court would never rule that Obama was natural born. Rather, a first year paralegal student would know that the court would either say the plaintiff has proven his case that Obama is ineligible or he has failed to prove his case. Here, he failed to prove his case because the Court’s definition of natural born citizen showed the plaintiff’s legal theory had no basis. Thus the case is dismssed. Such definition of NBC is part of the holding and of course has binding effect within its jurisdiction. Had plaintiff preserved the argument that Obama was ineligible due to foreign birth on appeal, then the court may have remanded the case below for such factual determination if it didn’t dismiss on other grounds. Even in that case, the court below would not declare Obama natural born. It would either rule that the plaintiff proved Obama was foreign born or dismiss the case for plaintiff’s failure to satisfy such burden of proof. Hard to believe he still doesn’t understand this. It may be that he is just dumb.
Orly mentioned it in her filings. She barely mentioned it in her actual “hearing day”, but she did allude to it.
The key thing is that it was part of her filed charges and that Malihi was very clear in his Recommendation that Section 2 applied to ALL three lawyer’s claims of trying to argue the two-citizen parent nonsense.
Point well taken.
I am happy to concede and correct the record – they are not has-been’s they are simply utter failures who no longer have the balls to try to practice what they “preach” in any actual court of law.
They now only huff and puff their conniving fantasy bluster from the safety of their keyboard.
Considering that is specifically what the judge told you himself in his own ruling, yes:
*duh*
Oh Scott, keep living in your own sad wall of fantasy delusion and burying your head in the sand. Only you stand in your own way of being able to deal with and face reality. I have no sympathy for someone so intentionally unwilling to help themself.
Rickey
hermitian:
From Judge Malihi’s ruling:
“The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to
be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs’
allegations.3?
“None of the testifying witnesses provided persuasive testimony. Moreover, the
Court finds that none of the written submissions tendered by Plaintiffs have probative
value. Given the unsatisfactory evidence presented by the Plaintiffs, the Court concludes
that Plaintiffs’ claims are not persuasive.”
Thus if we are to believe Dr. C. then we are also to believe that the judge proceeded to conclude that Obama was born in Hawaii from the evidence presented.
Did you fail reading comprehension in high school? The section of the decision where Malihi says that the witnesses were unpersuasive refers only to Orly’s witnesses.
The decision is in two parts. Part 1 refers only to Orly’s arguments and evidence on behalf of Farrar, Lax, Judy, Malaren and Roth.
Part 2 refers to the arguments and evidence introduced on behalf of Welden, Swensson and Powell. In Part 2 Malihi makes no criticism at all about the evidence their attorneys provided. The transcript is clear that Irion and Hatfield entered the birth certificate into evidence.
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Yes and Malihi stated that:
“For the purposes of this analysis, this Court considered that President Barack
Obama was born in the United States.”
The judge did not say…. based on the evidence I find that Obama was born in the United States.
Irion and Hatfield entered a printout of the downloaded PDF file from the WH website. Irion and Hatfield did not state that the image was the President’s certified birth certificate. Instead they stated only that they had downloaded and printed it off the WH website. They made their point that Obama’s father was not a citizen using an image that Obama had presented to the public as his certified birth certificate.
Two of Taitz’s witnesses presented the same image and testified that this image was a forgery. The judge ruled that their evidence had no probative value.
The fact remains that Obama has never presented a certified paper copy of his standard birth certificate to any court or to any election officials. Obama can never do so because if he did he will have committed a felony.
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The court requires certified or notarized copies of documents for the record because they have probative value.
You do not know that to be a fact. you are speculating. It may well be true, but it is not a known fact.
the “president” is supposed to be eligible for all the people, not just democrats. to a lot of people, it’s not just sillyness.
if romney wins the nomination, and i hope he doesn’t, once obama starts running “the dog on the roof” ads, romney will put the birther boot on the throat of the dnc. it’s going to get real ugly, real soon. just my opinion,
of course everyone may be playing nicely by then.
i think the vault belongs to the people, none of this is obama’s or the birther’s vault.
You know, each time I think that Orly Taitz can’t possibly do anything/be anymore stupid as an attorney, she proves me wrong………
The courts are able to take judicial notice of generally accepted facts. He could have, for example, looked it up in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
The point, though, is that you lost. You lost in Illinois. You lost in Virginia. If Georgia is appealed, you will lose again. You will keep losing because your conspiracy theory is wrong.
Gee, I guess you just missed it, eh?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
She basically said that the argument had already been made by the other counsel and that she wouldn’t repeat it. However, it plays prominently (about 5 pages) in her Proposed Findings.
Why? It’s a cash cow for Orly, Putzo, and the rest of their motley mob. And it is enormous entertainment for the rest of us.
We don’t go around forums pretending to be a woman:
http://www.ricklatona.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/picresized_1229584137_youreadog1.gif
Get a life.
It’s an opinion for which I don’t see a lot of support. Karl Rove described the birther issue as Obama trap for the Republicans. Romney is the closest thing in the race to a main-stream Republican and they universally see the birther issue as a “lose” for them. It marginalizes them and pushes them solidly into the kook nut case column.
It doesn’t. You are simply wrong. What you “think” is irrelevant.
In your silly scenario, I have every right to walk into your “vault” and access your original records. …And so does every identity theft scammer and crazed malcontent that would want to access your personal records for ill use..
Sometimes Scott, you really say the dumbest things. I would expect better reasoning ability from the average 3 year old than what you display. Seriously, I wonder how you are able to function and tie your shoes every day… *sheesh*
As ugly as this election is surely going to get, the GOP realizes that the silly Birther issue is only poison and harmful to themselves.
I can see that the Democrats will probably have a field day with the clips of Romney being endorsed by Trump to further tarnish and damage Romney’s chances in the general, but that’s probably about the extent of how the issue of Birtherism will be used in this election. It is such an embarassing EPIC FAIL of an issue that it only serves to discredit the GOP and anyone foolish enough to get associated with it.
What your are seeing here is what you always see with the infamous dead enders on any issue. They are in their rat hole spewing venom and inanity at everyone because they have nothing else. It’s kind of amusing that they affect such bravado while behaving in such a pathetic fashion, but that’s just what dead enders do. I’m sure Sadaam thought he was an epic hero for the ages in his hole.
Hermitian –
Please learn to use the “Quote” function. It is not hard – it appears to the right of the identifying header of every commenter’s post.
That will put the text of that person’s comment already into proper formatting in your “Reply” box, so that you can respond to it and people can distinguish what you are trying to say from what someone else has said.
There is no reason to bother reading your garbled posts or take you seriously, when you can’t demonstrate the basic capability to even use this site properly.
Your endless rows of “H” just come across as some crazy ranting person who doesn’t know what he’s doing….
The vault in Fort Knox belongs to the people, too. Buy just try getting inside of it.
What a nonsensical statement that means nothing.
Any Presidential candidate (at least in the General Election stage) is “eligible” to be voted on by any American Citizen.
You don’t have to vote for them, of course. Heck, you don’t even have to vote, period. But they are “eligible” for your vote, whether you chose to do so or not.
I can’t argue with that.
Agreed.
Romney has made enough colossal fails, but even this is beyond him. Something significant would have to happen to drastically shift public opinion. Chainfailing in every court in the court is not going to get it done. Short of a surprise whistleblowing confession by some key offical in Hawaii, or perhaps a high Democrat, say Biden (cause that would be hysterical), backed by proof, or a confession by Obama himself, birtherism has been confined to the loony bin.
Right back where it came from.
You should be an Onion writer. Or not. You don’t know the meaning of irony.
Willard Mitt Romney is not going near that third rail. Just to refresh your memory:
George Romney, who tried running for prez in 1968, was born in Mexico to a polygamist. No one knows for sure, who George’s mother actually was. Any Romney PAC that starts with your suggestion, is going to get it with both barrels by Obama’s hatchet men.
And Romney foisted Rambler cars on the public. My uncle bought a Rambler Classic station wagon. It literally fell apart.
As Shrub once said: Bring it on.
First of all, please learn how to use the quote function for the forum.
So your argument is that the copy of the birth certificate which was put into evidence proves that Obama’s father was not a citizen, but it doesn’t prove that Obama was born in Hawaii? You can’t have it both ways.
And courts do not always require certified or notarized copies of documents. Uncertified copies can be admitted into evidence if there is no objection. If Orly did not want the copy of the birth certificate admitted, she should have objected. She failed to do so and it went into the record.
Van Irion: Move to have exhibit marked for identification Plaintiff’s Exhibit 1 [the downloaded copy of Obama’s LFBC] into the record.
Judge Malihi: Plaintiff’s 1 is in the record
None of the three attorneys present objected to putting the birth certificate into evidence. No admissible evidence was presented by Orly later in the hearing to challenged the authenticity of the birth certificate, in part because she failed to qualify any of her witnesses as experts.
The Magic M
hermitian: I have already posted on this site that current HDOH regulations do not permit certified copies of standard birth certificates to be prepared by computer printout.
No, “typewritten” does not exclude computer printouts. It’s “typewritten” as opposed to “handwritten”, not “written with a typewriter” as opposed to a technically different kind of printing device.
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Typewritten means written with type. Modern digital printers are either dot matrix or laser. The text is not written with type. Moreover, HDOH regulations differentiate between typewritten and computer printed. You don’t have to take my word for it but you do have to take theirs because Loretta Fuddy is required by law to enforce all the regulation of HDOH.
Chapter 8B
“B Standards for Copies of Vital Records
(1) Standard Copy
(a) Method of preparation. Standard copies of vital records may be prepared by photographic, dry copy reproduction process or by typing. If prepared by standard photographic process, the copy must not be smaller than one-half the size of the original. If prepared by dry copy process, heavy grade safety paper or specially treated paper must be used.
(b) Form of certification. Standard certi?ed copies shall contain an appropriate certi?cation statement over the signature of the registrar having custody of the record and be impressed with the raised seal of the issuing of?ce. The signature may be ‘photo-
graphed or entered by mechanical means. The paper shall display the of?cial seal of the Department of Health or the seal of the State.
(2) Abbreviated Copy
(a) Method of preparation. Abbreviated copies may be prepared by
typing, by computer printout, or by any other process approved
by the Director.”
Notice that abbreviated copies may be copied by typing or by computer printout; whereas standard certificates can be copied only by photographic, dry copy reproduction process or by typing.
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“Consequently, any copies of certified standard certificates that have been produced by digital scanning and printing are necessarily alterations of a certified document and are therefore forgeries.
“First, scanning and printing isn’t an “alteration”. Alteration necessarily requires a modification of the contents. Then again I always assumed your birfer Hail Mary would be “but there’s a coffee stain on the vault birth certificate, that invalidates it!”.
Second, an alteration isn’t necessarily a forgery. Only an alteration of the contents that is tried to pass off as if the altered content was the original content can, by definition, be a “forgery”.
I could take Obama’s vault BC, copy it in red letters on a piece of toilet paper and it would not be a forgery. The result may not be something Hawaii considers an official document, but it would not be a forgery.”
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The Hawaii law prohibits replacement vital statistics records to be copied by computer printout.
“§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]”
Thus replacement copies of original certificates can be produced only by typewritten, photostatic or microphotographic process.
If an employee of HDOH were to remove an original standard certificate and replace it with a scanned and printed copy then the replacement copy would be a forgery. This would be the exact same crime as if a clerk at the local 7-Eleven took a fiftydollar bill out of the cash drawer and replaced it with a counterfeit bill that he had manufactured by scanning a real fifty and printing the copy on a color laser printer.
Likewise, if the same HDOH employee ignored the HDOH regulations and produced a certified copy of an original certificate by digital scanning and printing and provided it to the requester and he, in turn, presented it to a court then it would not be a lawful certified copy and therefore would have no probative value unless the court ruled that it did in spite of its deficiencies.
You Obots need to stop talking from the hip and instead get to the facts. There is entirely too much bull on this website.
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“You Obots need to stop talking from the hip and instead get to the facts. There is entirely too much bull on this website.”
Your pretense of certainty in displaying your own silliness is quite entertaining. By all means, keep it up.
Here’s a little solidarity to keep you going.
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A scan and print is a dry copy reproduction process. Almost any modern photocopier is really just a scanner and laser printer. You really think that the Hawaii courts will ever decide that modern technology isn’t equivalent because it’s not 25 year old technology where a drum is exposed directly to the reflected light from the original? Or that digital photography doesn’t count as photography because the image is stored as a digital file?
Besides that – there’s actually nothing that says that the HDOH is required to issue “standard copies”.
*rolls eyes*
Please, stop wasting your time here just projecting your own inadequacies.
Take up your bogus argument with the HI DOH.
But you won’t, will you…. because you know in your heart they will just tell you how wrong you are and you are too craven to face that.
El Diablo NegroFebruary 6, 2012 at 10:19 am (Quote)#
bernadineayers: i wish obama would just open the vault to end this long national nightmare…
He has made available his BC and LFBC. Is he supposed to mail a verified copy to everyone who demands validation?
There are a lot of things I keep private. If I were in the same boat, I would have only released the BC and my Tax statements. That’s it nothing else, deal with it. I have nothing to hide, but it does not mean that I keep my front door wide open.
If my boss knocked on my door and asked to search my computer for stolen documents with no warrant. I would decline. I have done it….and found a better place to work.
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Now let’s see! At 10 dollars a copy the total cost for 100 copies would be only $1000. Sounds like a better deal for the taxpayers that the millions in cost that the fleet of DOJ and DNC lawyers are paid to keep even one copy out of court.
Doesn’t seem like cost would be the issue. Maybe it’s because Obama is not a citizen.
I have noticed that Obama and his hundreds of lawyers prefer to give judicial notice of images of various versions of his BC posted all over the either net.
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There’s an even better document in Kenneth Allen’s FOIA documents. Page 34 is a handwritten memo that says:
“They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/1961 – Barack Obama II, child living with mother…”
The date of that letter? August 31, 1961. 27 days after Obama was born.
“Any day now…any day now…”
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Actually it’s $10 for the first copy and $4 for each additional copy. It’s a real bargain compared to the cost of some certified vital records. The California Dept of Public Health charges $18 now for each copy without any volume discount. They generally recommend one go to the individual county because processing time is typically faster (even same day). Some counties charge more – as much as $24 for each copy. The State Department charges $50 for any kind of identity document, including the Consular Report of Birth Abroad or birth certificates for those born in the Panama Canal Zone before 1979.
In that we agree. Stop posting and give everyone’s nose some relief.
You are just some random nobody on a computer, not any official SoS or any other authority that would actually have the rights to ask for such documents.
You simply have only ignorant idle speculation to go on to feed your pathetic little whiny fantasies.
You simply have no idea whether any of the state ballot procedures ended up either seeing or receiving a certified paper COLB at any point in their process at all. Nor do you have the right to know or see that paper yourself. Sorry.
Finally – learn to use the Quote button already. Are you really that incompetent to not figure it out yet?
Actually, he’s just a fool. And like too many fools, he delights in capering about, presuming his foolishness to be clever. Just laugh at him.
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obama may not know, . he didn’t know who bill ayers was, michele robinson might have known …. tucker carlson does, now…
DNC lawyers are paid by the DNC, not taxpayers, you ignorant moron. And I doubt they paid much in Georgia because all Jablonski did was file a few motions. Then they saved a bundle by him not even showing up for the circus. And won anyway.
I tried it before but it didn’t work for me. Does each user require a plugin?
I tried the quote function three times and it doesn’t work for me. I consulted an expert and he indicates there must be a problem on the website.
G.
Hermitian –
Please learn to use the “Quote” function. It is not hard – it appears to the right of the identifying header of every commenter’s post.
That will put the text of that person’s comment already into proper formatting in your “Reply” box, so that you can respond to it and people can distinguish what you are trying to say from what someone else has said.
There is no reason to bother reading your garbled posts or take you seriously, when you can’t demonstrate the basic capability to even use this site properly.
Your endless rows of “H” just come across as some crazy ranting person who doesn’t know what he’s doing….
hermitian:
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I have tried the quote function three times and it doesn’t work for me. “blockquote” is an HTML function. I know how to use it but there must be a problem on this site. I consulted an expert who does nothing but construct web pages and he says that must not be set up correctly on this site.
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Hermitan is a lot like the chap I had a conversation with last night. He claimed he was a Constitutional expert who studied at Harvard, wrote several papers for the Library of Congress, and taught Constitutional law at MIT in the 80’s (I wasn’t aware that MIT had a Law School in the 80’s, but hey, maybe it was small).
He then proceeded to tell me I needed to read the Constitution, especially the part where it says you need 2 Citizen Parents to be an NBC.
I asked him where exactly in the Constitution that was, and he told me to look it up for myself and read the rest while I was at it.
I laughed.
If you’re going to be a pretend expert, at least have read a little bit about what you claim to be an expert on, OK Hermitan?
Seems to work just fine. I presume your expert is comparable to the expertise Orly brings to bear. If so, simply remove the blinders from your eyes and you’ll be amazed what a fascinating and colorful world we have.
Even works fine for highlighting a section only to quote. Easy as clicking a button. I’ve only done several hundred CMS type websites, so I’m not an “expert” but even I can clearly see it’s set up just fine.
Maybe your “expert” is better at selling copiers than debugging code, or examining PDFs?
You can do it a bunch of ways.
1) make sure nothing is selected on the page and click quote like this:
or 2) highlight the text you want to have quoted (to only quote the highlighted text_ and click quote:
See – not that hard, is it?
You have evidence that the DOJ and DNC have spent millions defeating these frivolous lawsuits? If so, let’s see it. Otherwise, admit that you just made it up.
BTW, the quote function is working quite well for everyone else.
Oh Henry, as nutty and chewy as ever! It works for everyone else, except you, but the problem can’t possibly be on your end. It’s with the site … where if so, it would be affecting multiple users.
Several trolls have had trouble with it. Could be a correlation there!
Yes, Henry, this is an infantile posting.
To a birther, even the simplest tasks are damn near impossible.
oh christ! you´ve been talking to mara zebest haven´t you?
Tried 6 times with IE9. This one with FireFox 10.
They might not have had a law school per se. I could imagine someone teaching constitutional law as part of a department that doesn’t grant law degrees. For instance, MIT currently has a technology and law program consisting of several graduate level classes.
http://ctpid.mit.edu/tl/
Anyone out there using IE9 on this site? Quote function doesn’t work on my IE9 but does on FireFox 10.
Quite honestly, what you post is nonsense, so the format is rather irrelevant.
You never answered my question and i have a habit of asking until I get an answer: Were you born where your parents (or at least your mother) lived? Did anyone you know travel halfway around the globe to drop a baby? Your entire narratiive is bovine poop, start to finish.
I am currently using IE9 (v 9.0.9112.16421) and have no problems at all.
I don’t understand why the Quote function won’t work on your IE9 at all. Never had a problem with it here under IE9 at all…
Shut up already…….nothing will end YOUR long national nightmare except removing the scary black man from YOUR White House. Since this is not going to happen until the end of his second termin 2016, you need to settle in to your nightmare, cause you have about 4.5 more years of it……….
I hav given up on IE9 – used to like IE in the past, but I am now a Firefox user. Much more user friendly and less bing…..
and the quote function is fine. Do we gather that there are no more HHHHHHH bits to come? Phew….
Trying to re-enter my UN and E-mail after invoking quote using IE9
Well, the important thing is that you’ve figured out how to use the Quote function now. Your posts are much more readable. Congrats. That is at least some progress.
Javascript disabled?
Daniel you are like all Obots. You think everyone who wants to see Obama out now must be stupid. Therefore none of these clowns could possibly have advanced degrees.
Looks like your site doesn’t always accept the default login with the quote function invoked. It’s probably a cookie problem. Its always seems to work when posting without quote invoked.
I am assured by experts that any piece of sheepskin, vellum, or parchmant, inscribed with the word of power “DIPLOMA,” when inscribed in the appropriate blackletter script (preferably in black permanent ink, no watercolors), and folded into a hat, forms a potent, foolproof defense against stupid.
When combined with a layer of tinfoil …. 😉
No, we think you’re stupid if you want to see Obama out of office because a Swiss philosopher said that he can’t be President. Plus, there are plenty fools with advanced degrees. Orly Taitz comes to mind and she has several.
The DNC is a tax exempt organization. Without his pro bono DNC attorney, Obama would have to pay his own legal bills like every other stiff out there who is trying to get on the ballot. If Obama paid his own freight then the legal bill would be taxed. The fact that Obama gets this perk is outrageous. The DNC is not a party to Obama’s ballot challenges. These cases are all about the private citizen Obama and have nothing to do with President Obama. That’s also why Obama should have to present a certified paper copy of his birth certificate just like the stiff has to do.
It’s just another way for Obama to shaft the taxpayers.
You mean ‘The fact that Presidents gets this perk is outrageous.’
I guess you surely must know.
By all means Mr. HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
No one thinks you’re stupid because you don’t like Obama or would like to see him out of office. Those are perfectly legitimate views to hold.
We simply note that, whatever skills you may or may not possess, you have rendered yourself effectively stupid by giving over your cognitive faculties to bizarre adolescent fantasies about legal topics of which you obviously haven’t the slightest comprehension. And, to be frank, we wouldn’t think of you at all if you refrained from braying like a silly ass in public.
Not all degrees are created equal. I had several friends in Physical Chemistry. It was a five-year program. The flunk out rate was 60%.
Yes the fact that President Obama gets this perk when he is sued as a private citizen is outrageous.
Thanks for your help.
The fact is that most birthers don’t often do simple stuff. Most birthers are totally busy trying to do the impossible.
Did you check if George W. Bush gave back any public monies spent for defending his lawsuit for rape?
(Google it if you don’t believe me. Crazy people sue the President all the time. Birthers, however, may be unique in that crazy people usually don’t join hands in these lawsuits).
The same is true of all parties-Republican, Libertarian, Green, etc. Contributions to parties are not deductible to the donors, so there is no cost to the taxpayers. Why are you so ignorant?
Really can you show me in which states candidates have to present a certified birth certificate? None.
Now I will ask 3 times in the hope of getting one answer:
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
This is true. For example, a law degree from an unaccredited online “law school” may not be as good as a law degree from an accredited institution.
i don’t know the onion but i remember the gina davis version misha… i loved it.
Apparently you mistakenly believe I support Obama. I do not. I didn’t vote for him last time, and I won’t be voting for him next time. I am a conservative who votes Republican.
I guess that’s just one more foolish assumption of yours that you’re completely wrong about.
OTOH, Stupid is as stupid does. I don’t care if you’ve got a graduate degree in astrophysics, if you claim the moon is made of green cheese you’re simply wrong.
Birthers are stupid by default, just as flat earthers are stupid by default, and moon landing hoaxers are stupid by default, and chemtrailers are stupid by default, and holocaust deniers are stupid by default.
If you don’t want to be ridiculed, stop being ridiculous.
hermitan, I wish you weren’t so trapped in needing to come up with blindly partisan excuses to filter your “worldview” through and could just have an honest discussion without having to wrap yourself in false claims just so you can create enemies in your own mind, I feel you could actually get along with the rest of the world better if you did more than just spend all your time coming up with new ways to stub your toe.
First of all – think for a minute – if a challenge when against any party’s chosen candidates, that party of course defends it. There is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary about that at all.
Nor is there anything unusual about the government being required to provide resources to defend any claims brought against government officials. Happens all the time.
For those party defended situations, that is not tax payer money at all. Just as any organization would use its own funds to defend its own claims. *duh*
For the government, if you care about wasting tax payers money – then your anger only belongs in the direction of those filing and causing these lawsuits in the first place. In other words, the Birthers themselves. It is simply not just a right but also common sense that any entity that gets challenged in court has the right to defend itself, to whatever extent that is necessary.
You only make yourself constantly look bad by raving on and trying to twist normal things into excuses to merely cast blame. Why can’t you just act like a grown up and not a child. You are allowed to be angry. You are allowed to not like Obama. You are allowed to vote for whomever you want. No one begrudges or minds that you do such things. You are allowed to not like certain laws… that doesn’t change the reality of how they operate.
But when you come up with nonsense excuses to make up bogus argumments and create ficticious enemies, you just come across transparent and foolish. That is why you get such flack.
I would be happy to have an adult conversation with you and be able to treat you like a normal person, but you have to demonstrate that you have the emotional maturity and integrity to act like one.
can we drop the pious boloney jay. you’re just as interested in this subject as i am.
you just tried to race bait me and i didn’t take the hook… now what’s your argument ??
I agree with you on that. It goes further than that however. Regardless of degree, that doesn’t preclude the person obtaining it from being successful or even make them to be “bright” as a result. Every field is full of its failures, idiots, cranks, wackjobs and weak links. That applies to just about all disciplines I’ve encountered – degreed or not.
By impossible you mean like reinventing the Constitution to suit themselves and then trying to convince a Judge that’s the way it was all along?
You are sincerely welcome.
I give others credit as well for helping explain some of the different ways to use the quote function (you’ll find a lot of creative ways to make it work for you, as you get used to it).
I also give credit to those who brought up the issues of javascript, etc. as other possible source problems and also kudos to yourself about remembering the possible cookie issues. All are valid troubleshooting areas to look into. As everyone’s detailed configuration specs will vary to a degree, it is very hard to simply diagnose these things quickly, especially from a distance.
Anyways, I’m glad you have it working and figured out now. I’m sure you are appreciating already how much easier the Quote function makes your reply work as well… (or at least how much better and more readible it makes your posts look).
I would agree with a lot of that characterization. I would add that it is a self-inflicted quixotic quest of trying to do the impossible.
Then again, Birtherism is really just an irrational emotional response to come up with excuses and myths to somehow explain away or justify things you just simply are not happy with. It is so unfortunate and unnecessary to behave that way, as it is not based in dealing with reality and therefore is ultimately always futile. More importantly, it is unnecessary, because there is nothing wrong about simply disagreeing or being unhappy with things in the first place and folks wouldn’t hold it against all of you if you didn’t have to act silly and dishonest in the process. Sane people do themselves no favor by coming across crazy to others….
Please try to refect upon that and realize that, although you may not like how the real world works, more people would be willing to accept and work with you to improve the reasonable and rational ways it could be improved; if only you didn’t need to always hide behind ficticious bogeymen to cover for your fears and anger by spending so much of your time lashing out and trying to pick unnecessary fights.
Ah – shades of the “Ministry of Truth” from Nineteen Eighty-Four only their goal was to rewrite history to suit their version of the truth.
If Gary Johnson was the GOP candidate, I would vote for him without any qualms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Johnson
Did you folks hear that Lakin got denied a license to practice in Kansas.
What a sad thing for his family, the irresponsible dufus.
That is a moot point, I think. More to a point is that he understands his readership to be dumb.
I strongly agree. No matter how unpersuasive Apuzzo’s argument is in court, it is superbly convincing to the birther class.
I’m pretty sure that the above comment is yours, Hermie. Please learn to use the quote function.
Anyway, your assertion that “an image that Obama had presented to the public as his certified birth certificate” is internally false.
Pay attention here, because it may well be the tipping point that triggers you understanding.
The “image that Obama had presented to the public” is not and was not “presented to the public as his certified birth certificate”. It was presented to the public as an image of his certified birth certificate.
Get it? It is an image of the birth certificate, not the birth certificate. That is why discussing layers in a PDF is assinine.
Also “certified birth certificate” is redundant. If a document isn’t certified, then it isn’t a certificate. Birth information written on a piece of paper, however accurate, is not a Birth Certificate unless that piece of paper carries an official certification.
Perhaps you would have been more clear had you said “official birth certificate”.
And you would definitely be more clear if you would use the quote feature. Hint: try highlighting a sentence you want to discuss and then click the blue (Quote) ‘button’ next to the date in the post you are commenting on.
I wore nothing but slip-ons for about 4 years, until I finally got time to get my hip fixed. Tying shoes is an over rated as far as life skills go.
On the other hand, I would be surprised if he can breathe without someone telling to
DAD! Breathe so we can breathe
I wore nothing but slip-ons for about 4 years, until I finally got time to get my hip fixed. Tying shoes is an over rated as far as life skills go.
On the other hand, I would be surprised if he can breathe without someone telling to
DAD! Breathe so we can breathe
It just worked perfectly for me. Your ‘expert’ is less of an expert than you think. But that would be typical for a birther.
OK, That was weird behavior, I’ll admit. I think it had something to do with the Doc’s host site not being 100% yet. I had to do a back page at some point and the editor widget got kept a copy of the previous comment. I didn’t notice it to wipe it, sorry about that folk.
Why go half hog? Why not go for 330 million copies?
He got the font to change though.
Well – an original signed paper document on file in California with the Dept of Public Health is titled “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”. I think the original form is technically referred to as the “original birth certificate” even though it doesn’t have the typical hallmarks we’d think of in a birth certificate (raised seal, security paper, etc).
I’m looking at a copy of my kid’s BC, and I noticed that there’s a blank spot for “DATE OF DEATH” as well as the state file number for a death certificate. Kind of spooky if you ask me. However, I’m guessing that if a death occurs in California, they’ll go back to the original BC and and add that information. Of maybe they’ll just add that to an image, which is obviously how the BCs I’ve gotten were prepared – from a FAX-like image of the original.
That may well be the informal use of the term, but an uncertified cerfiticate is an oxymoron.
Security paper does not contribute to the certification, it merely makes it more easily distinguishable from an unofficial photocopy. The certification is the signed statement from the official that it is a “true copy or abstract”. The seal makes it a legally sworn statement. (this is my opinion of course; IANAL).
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Actually I think it’s useless. It’s a total waste of character space. I detest stuff that just gets in the way of the message. Pre-fomatted posting is for sissies who care more about conformity than message. It also shows what you Obots think is important. I’ll take hard facts over somebody else’s formatting every day. Just remember I prefer plain vanilla text without some webmaster screwing over it. Maybe if you Obots were not so lazy you could do your own formatting.
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Fixed it for you…
Yo, G; looks like you been SERVED!
Actually is wastes much less character space than your silly string of ‘H’s.
An excellent attitude, and I wholeheartedly concur. Especially in a message board where communication doesn’t get any help from body language and tone of voice. Why then do you prefer hiding your commentary inside the text you are commenting upon without providing any visual clues as to which is which?
Well, there is darned little preformatting, other that the reference line and changing the fontsize of the quoted text. That just makes it easier for you and your readers to focus on the message, not the formatting (or lack thereof).
Yes, it does. ‘We’ think that communication is important and are interested in what you want to communicate (more or less).
The whole point of posting is communication. Hiding your message is not communication.
Mr. Hermitan clearly prefers the creativity of Dr. Taitz’s briefs to the conformity of the marketplace of ideas which is Doc’s site.
The H. Man is welcome to lavish himself in Orly’s briefs, Mario’s too–as long as he doesn’t mind the stench.
G.
“hermitan, I wish you weren’t so trapped in needing to come up with blindly partisan excuses to filter your “worldview” through and could just have an honest discussion without having to wrap yourself in false claims just so you can create enemies in your own mind,I feel you could actually get along with the rest of the world better if you did more than just spend all your time coming up with new ways to stub your toe.
First of all – think for a minute – if a challenge when against any party’s chosen candidates, that party of course defends it.There is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary
about that at all.”
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First of all–I did think for a minute–The term of the President lasts four years not eight. Obama is not running for a second term as the President. He is running for a second term as a person just like any other smuck. The Democrat Party illegally put Obama on their ballot last time without certifying him in the State of Georgia (and 48 other states) as constitutionally qualified. Never mind that the law in the State of Georgia requires that each candidate must be constitutionally qualified and that the Republican Party did certify that John McCain and Sarah Palin were both constitutionally qualified. Oddly enough the Democrat Party did certify Obama to be constitutionally qualified in one state. That was in Hawaii. What a coincidence! Obama claims to be from Hawaii. By the way Obama’s popularity has dropped like a rock in Hawaii. Now the DNC is not a party to the ballot challenge in Georgia. Consequently, the DNC has no business providing him with a pro bono attorney. That gives Obama an unfair advantage over other potential candidates who are directly competing with him for a place on the Democrat ballot. Also it means that Obama doesn’t pay his own legal bills and thus does not pay tax on same. Also it means that these other candidates are again blocked from the ballot because once again the DNC is putting a candidate for President on their ballot who is not constitutionally qualified. Maybe some Obot lawyer could explain why a ALJ would certify Obama is qualified when the Democrat party has not done so. That does seem a bit unusual or out of the ordinary.
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“Nor is there anything unusual about the government being required to provide resources to defend any claims brought against government officials.Happens all the time.”
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It should be illegal for the DNC to provide free and tax exempt legal services for a private citizen being sued in his private capacity.
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“For those party defended situations, that is not tax payer money at all.Just as any organization would use its own funds to defend its own claims.*duh*”
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It should be illegal for any tax exempt organization to pay the legal bills of a private individual who is not an employee of the company. Actually it may already be illegal; but I am not a lawyer so I don’t know. Maybe some Obot lawyer out there could donate an opinion on that. Oh! Never mind…. I forgot that Obot lawyers don’t donate anything. They don’t even donate their own tax bill. Don’t ask me just ask the Secretary of the Treasury.
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For the government, if you care about wasting tax payers money – then your anger only belongs in the direction of those filing and causing these lawsuits in the first place.In other words, the Birthers themselves.It is simply not just a right but also common sense that any entity that gets challenged in court has the right to defend itself, to whatever extent that is necessary.
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That might be true if the DNC were a party to Obama’s law suit but it is not.
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You only make yourself constantly look bad by raving on and trying to twist normal things into excuses to merely cast blame.Why can’t you just act like a grown up and not a child.You are allowed to be angry.You are allowed to not like Obama.You are allowed to vote for whomever you want.No one begrudges or minds that you do such things.You are allowed to not like certain laws… that doesn’t change the reality of how they operate.
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Let’s see how this works. You Obots invent your own faux facts and then claim that your opponents look bad because we don’t buy in to your faux facts. Well here’s a challenge for you. Show me in the law where it is legal for the DNC to provide a private citizen tax-exempt legal services when he is sued as a private citizen and he is not a DNC employee.
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But when you come up with nonsense excuses to make up bogus argumments and create ficticious enemies, you just come across transparent and foolish.That is why you get such flack.
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I might be lots of things but foolish is not one of them. I’m not in this debate to lose it and believe me I am not going to lose it.
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I would be happy to have an adult conversation with you and be able to treat you like a normal person, but you have to demonstrate that you have the emotional maturity and integrity to act like one.
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I don’t have to demonstrate anything buddy. When you start posting some facts instead of making up the law as you go maybe we can have a conversation. If not…then I’m not interested in what you have to say. You’re just wasting my time.
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SPRONG!!!!!
That doesn’t even make any sense because the two aren’t mutually exclusive. That’s like saying…hell I don’t even have an analogy for that.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you’ve already lost in the message category. Now I see you’re taking yourself out of the running for Miss Congeniality.
If you had a message, folks wouldn’t be picking on your formatting.
here’s some emotional maturity…
http://prospect.org/article/birthers-are-back-town
I’m not a Democrat, so I do not presume to tell the DNC how to spend its money.
I’m a Republican, and my party spends plenty on lawyers. Just think of those lawyers who represented President Bush before the Supreme Court. Not paid out of George Bush’s pocket, and he did not pay taxes of the value (which to him, was probably priceless).
Whether someone has to “certify” that President Obama is eligible, the factual record, as proven by Dr. Taitz and Mr. Irion, is that he is. You have no exit strategy from this position. What do you do when the Democratic party certifies his eligibility? Put more “H’s” into your rants?
I’ll defer to Misha, but I would suspect that “smuck” is not the proper spelling for the word.
I’ve been looking over the California Health and Safety Code, and the law switches between “certificate of live birth”, “birth certificate”, and “certificate” to describe the original paper birth record document.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=102001-103000&file=102425-102475
I certainly understand your specific use of the word “certification”. There’s certainly no “certification” per se on an original document save maybe some case I’ve never heard of where a seal is applied to the original birth record. Like it or not, “certificate” has a connotation in common usage of a document attesting to facts, and that usage has found it’s way into laws on the filing of birth records.
Heck – Hawaii law uses the term “certificate” to describe the original document on file, or even what’s now just an electronic file as a “certificate”. §338-17.7 specifically refers to the “original birth certificate” when law enforcement requests a change in the original birth record for the safety of the “registrant”. The laws switch between the use of the term “certificate” and “record” to describe the original record.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0005.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0006.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0011.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0012.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0014_0003.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0015.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0016.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0005.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0021.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0028.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0030.htm
§338-21 even uses the oxymoron “new original” to describe a replacement birth record with an updated name, such as after a paternity test or if the parents get married and want to change the surname. Apparently the previous “original” is required to be kept on file.
If you want to be taken seriously you should use serious language and not say “Democrat Party” like a Republican hack.
More substantially, what you say in the excerpt below is simply not true.
Originally, the birther blogs said 50 states lacked the eligibility certification, and said so with absolute certainty. Of course they just made that up. When someone came up with the certification in Hawaii, the story was changed to 49. That’s just made up too. No one ever collected the Party letters and certifications from all 50 states to come up with the 49 number.
I know that because I have in my hot little hand a documentation that Hawaii was not the only state where the Party certified Barack Obama’s constitutional eligibility.
I’m not Jewish but I am almost certain that he meant to say schmuck.
You may not know this (or you may just be so deep in denial as to pretend it’s not true) but you and your side have already lost…numerous times. Birtherism has never even come close to winning. This “debate” was over before it even started.
Obama’s popularity in Hawaii dropped (Gallup poll) from 65.9% in February of 2011 to 56.1% in January of 2012. It is still, however, higher in Hawaii than in the other 49 states.
For perspective, you might look at the Hawaii Tribune Herald’s article: A Congress of baboons.
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/commentary/their-views/congress-baboons.html
And he sounded so meek when get some assistance yesterday. A new day, the old Henry.
The sign of an honest participant…this is as good as it gets.
Yep, the farthest outlier has shown the largest ‘correction’. No surprise there.
State polls are not very reliable, since they generally have small sample sizes. Two national polls in the last couple of days, ABC/WaPo and Rasmussen (which leans Republican) show Obama beating Romney by 6 points. You can run the numbers any way you’d like, but that kind of national margin translates to a sizable Electoral College victory, similar to what Obama won in 2008. Moreover, both polls show Obama’s job approval at 50%. Incumbent Presidents with those kind of numbers get reelected.
Even more important are the trends, which are all running in Obama’s direction since September. Hermit can seize on any isolated number he likes, but the trend is your friend.
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This site is not one that gives much weight to hard facts and to cold logic. Instead much of the commentary and the debate is very superficial with erroneous opinion often stated as fact. Far too much effort is expended on ridicule aimed at demeaning those who are not supporters of the President. Much of this is clearly driven by a cause rather than by a desire to find the truth. This sad state of affairs is dangerous to the survival of our nation.
The correct term is standard certificate. The standard certificate is the original Certificate of Live Birth filled in by the birth hospital using typewriter or permanent ink.
“STATE or HAWAII
DEPARTMENT or HEALTH
PUBllC HEALTH REGULATIONS
Chapter 8
VITAL STATISTICS REGISTRATION AND RECORDS
These rules are made pursuant to the Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act. Chapter 6C, R.L.H. 1955, 1961 Supplement), Chapter 14-A, R.L.H. 1955 (1961 Supplement), Chapter 57, R.L.I-I. 1955, as amended, and other related laws. These rules pertain to vital statistics registration and records and similar matters.
CERTIFICATES OF VITAL STATISTICS EVENTS
Section 1. Preparation. Certificates of vital statistics events are to be filled in by typewriter or in ink. If ink is used, only permanent ink will be acceptable. All signatures are to be made with permanent ink. In all other respects, the certificates shall comply with provisions of Section 57-14, R.L.H. 1955.”
“Public Health Regulations
Chapter 8B
VITAL STATISTICS REGISTRATION
AND RECORDS
2. CERTIFIED COPIES AND DISCLOSURE OF RECORDS
2.1 Access to Vital Records
A. General
Vital records authorized under Chapter 338, Hawaii Revised Statutes, are not available for or open to public inspection. Access to the records, including copies or information from them, is not permitted except as provided by law or regulations the Department of Health may promulgate.
C. Individuals
Upon written request and proper identi?cation, the state registrar or local registrar of a registration district (county) may permit an individual to examine a certi?cate for the purpose of verifying an entry or correcting an error; provided that the individual is eligible to receive such information as described in Paragraphs 2.5 through 2.9 herein.
2.4 Issuance of Certi?ed Copies of Vital Records
A Authority to Issue Certi?ed Copies
(I) Only the Director ofHealth shall issue certi?ed copies of a vital record. Copies may be issued only when the Director has the original certi?cate in his custody. Local registrars of all other districts shall not issue certi?ed copies of a vital record. Such registrars may receive or retain duplicate -copies for their administrative use but may not release information from them to the public or to any individual outside their of?ce except with permission of the Director of Health.
B Standards for Copies of Vital Records
(1) Standard Copy
(a) Method of preparation. Standard copies of vital records may be prepared by photographic, dry copy reproduction process or by typing. If prepared by standard photographic process, the copy must not be smaller than one-half the size of the original. If prepared by dry copy process, heavy grade safety paper or specialy treated paper must be used.
(b) Form of certification. Standard certi?ed copies shall contain an appropriate certi?cation statement over the signature of the registrar having custody of the record and be impressed with the raised seal of the issuing of?ce. The signature may be ‘photographed or entered by mechanical means. The paper shall display the of?cial seal of the Department of Health or the seal of the State.
(c) Unauthorized reproduction. Other reasonable safeguards against forgery, unauthorized reproduction or misuse as the Director of Health may formulate rom time to time shall be provided.
(d) Con?dential information. Information contained in the section headed “Con?dential lnforrnation for Medical and Health Use Only” or other similar designation shall not be included on a standard certi?ed copy unless speci?cally requested by an individual named on the certi?cate or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
(2) Abbreviated Copy
(a) Method of preparation. Abbreviated copies may be prepared by typing, by computer printout, or by any other process approved by the Director.”
Notice that abbreviated certificates don’t exist—only abbreviated copies are prepared. Only abbreviated copies may be produced by computer printout.
Hawaii law forbids replacement standard certificates to be produced by scanning and printout.
“§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]”
This law is proof that production of standard certified copies by scanning and printing is contrary to the law. Such copies would not be competent evidence within the courts of Hawaii. Note that the HDOH differentiates between typewritten copies and computer printed copies.
The HDOH regulations concerning vital statistics records have not been amended since Feb 7, 1981. Chapter 8B which pertains to the standard certificates has not been revised since Jun 29, 1976. These are the current HDOH regulations for vital statistics records. The regulations are approved by the governor of Hawaii, the Assistant Attorney of Hawaii and the Director of Health. Consequently none of these officers who have served after Feb 7, 1981 have ever signed a new or revised vital statistics regulation. Now state law requires that the HDOH must prepare, amend and enforce their regulations.
Ҥ338-2 Authority and duties of the department of health. The department of health, herein referred to as the department, shall:
(1) Establish a central bureau of public health statistics with suitable offices properly equipped for the safety and preservation of all its official records;
(2) Install a statewide system of public health statistics;
(3) Make and amend, after notice and hearing, necessary regulations, give instructions and prescribe forms for collecting, transcribing, compiling, and preserving public health statistics; and
(4) Enforce this part and the regulations made pursuant thereto. [L 1949, c 327, §3; RL 1955, §57-2; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-2]”
Thus Loretta Fuddy is bound by law to enforce the HDOH regulations that have been approved by the Governor.
The facts are that regardless of who created the PDF image of Obama’s standard Certificate of Live Birth this image has no probative value. This statement assumes that this image is an identical image of a certified paper copy of Obama’s standard certificate legally produced by the HDOH. However, because no such certified copy has ever been released to the public, then it is impossible to know the origin of the PDF image. If this image is not an identical image of a certified paper copy of Obama’s standard certificate legally produced by the HDOH then it is a forgery.
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No fool ever considered himself a fool.
And the Irony Meter goes OFF THE SCALE!!!!!!
Nancy created two different certification letters (at least one for Hawaii which certified that Obama was constitutionally qualified) and many others that omitted this certification. Both were signed by Pelosi and the DNC counsel and notarized. In all instances the Republican certification letters did certify that both Republican candidates were constitutionally qualified. Georgia is one of those states that received the Democrat letter that did not certify that Obama was constitutionally qualified. That fact is also consistent with the other fact that the FightTheSmears web site never stated that Obama is a natural-born citizen. Instead the site claimed that Obama is a native-born citizen. Copies of the Democrat and the Republican certification letters were entered into the hearing record in Judge Malihi’s court.
SPRONG . . . SPROING!!!!
A certified copy was shown to reporters at the press conference in April. Savannah Guthrie of NBC news felt it, examined it, and photographed it.
“Well, i was actually given an opportunity to look at this birth certificate today. i felt the raised seal, i saw the names, the date, the place of birth. so Mr. Trump is saying there’s a lot of revelations thanks to him, but the fact remains as it has with the short-form certificate as it has for years, the president was born in Honolulu, Hawaii ”
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9085/x25c119092.jpg
Well, you know, laws usually say what’s NOT legal rather than what is (there are exceptions). I don’t recall ever seeing a law that says it’s legal not to murder somebody.
So stop being silly and come with a law saying it’s NOT legal. I should note that while Obama is named in the complaint, it is the Democratic [note the correct spelling] Party of Georgia whose submission to the Secretary of State was challenged. And just as a matter of curiosity, do you actually know who paid Jablonski in Georgia?
Your debating strategy is like that of the typical troll here, trying to shift the burden of proof to others, making unsubstantiated claims that their facts are bad and trying to obscure the lack of substance in your writing with volume.
That’s correct. I did misspell it. Google that Yiddish word. It’s not a compliment.
So exactly how would this be done in the year 2011?
A modern photocopier is nothing more than a scanning device combined with a laser print drum. That’s why these devices are often combination scanners, copiers, printers, and FAX machines. That’s why one can store a job and have the copies printed up later. That’s why one pull out a job after it’s done scanning and print dozens of identical copies. That’s how one can do auto “collate” when in the past true photostatic copiers had mechanical collating mechanisms.
If you went to a court and tried to argue that a document legally wasn’t a “dry copy reproduction” because the reproduction process involved a scanner and a printer, you’d be laughed out of court. It would be like arguing that digital photography isn’t photography because the storage medium isn’t film. To meet your standard, they’d have to find some old machine that’s no longer easily serviceable.
A new birther rule: laws tell what what you can do, not what you can’t, saving you the trouble of thinking for yourself!
More and more like Bizarro World all the time. This is like trying to play board games with a little kid according to the rules. Who are often happen to do anything to avoid admitting error or losing.
Check the archives pal. Both parties used the same language in 2008 that they used in 2004 and 2000.
By the way, by what logic do you conclude McCain was eligible? I not saying he wasn’t, but share with us your logic to conclude that he was. No b.c. ever provided. Born outside US (some dispute as to whether Canal Zone or Panama).
By the way-
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Ask Darren Huff.
So If Obama has shown it to a reporter, then why not put it on display in the WH so that visitors can view it? Also if he has this HDOH provided certified paper copy of his standard certificate why not respond to the subpoena to Judge Malihi’s court with said certificate in hand? Or at least why not allow your pro bono DNC attorney to show up and enter it into the court record? After all it would only cost Obama $4.00 to do so.
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Of course Romney will never display his in the White House, because he will never get elected.
Why haven’t they done that?
The world may never know.
Besides that, he only ordered two copies and it cost a lot more than the vital records fees to get them. He probably paid his personal attorney something like $300/hr plus travel expenses.
There’s also no evidence that the attorney of record in Atlanta ever coordinated anything with Obama or his WH/campaign staff. He was the house counsel for the Georgia Democratic Party. I guess he theoretically represented Obama, but a reading of his motion to dismiss argued that the party had the right to put whomever it wanted on the Presidential preference primary, and that it wasn’t directly choosing a candidate, but delegates to the convention. That certainly read like he was representing the Georgia Democratic Party.
Not that it matters, but it could be on display somewhere in the White House.
Obstinate, moronic birther bigots have become quite adept at making asinine and irrelevant speculations without any credible evidence.
Why aren’t these bigots demanding to see the birth records of all of the 2012 candidates?
Puzzling, isn’t it?
You do know the White House hasn’t been open to the public since 2001?
There are several reasons not to show up to the circus in Georgia. All of them perfectly legal, and tactical decisions between the attorney and his client (whether that ultimately is President Obama or the DNC). The result was the same. The birthers were laughed at for their silliness. The point is just because you think he should have done something a particular way, doesn’t mean if he fails to go by what you think should have been done is evidence of any wrong doing. Get used to the fact that you aren’t entitled to getting everything your way. Most of us had parents teach us that when we were young. Apparently that lesson didn’t sink in well for you.
In September 2003, [White House tours] resumed on a limited basis for groups making prior arrangements through their Congressional representatives or embassies in Washington for foreign nationals and submitting to background checks, but the White House remains closed to the public.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House#Public_access_and_security)
White House Tours
Public tours of the White House are available. Requests must be submitted through one’s Member of Congress. These self-guided tours are available from 7:30 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. Tuesday through Thursday, 7:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Fridays, and 7:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Saturdays (excluding federal holidays or unless otherwise noted). Tour hours will be extended when possible based on the official White House schedule. Tours are scheduled on a first come, first served basis. Requests can be submitted up to six months in advance and no less than 21 days in advance. You are encouraged to submit your request as early as possible as a limited number of spaces are available. All White House tours are free of charge. (Please note that White House tours may be subject to last minute cancellation.)
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/tours-and-events)
Glad I went to DC before the security was set to “lock down”.
Looking back on how freely accessible every thing was (metal detectors at main entrances), it’s probably for the best.
Andrew Jackson’s wide open house is a long time gone. 🙁
Have you written to the White House and suggested that it be put on display? I didn’t think so.
Besides, even if it were on display, you wouldn’t be able to touch it. It would be in a shatter-proof case. And then you would complain about not being able to feel the raised seal.
Judge Malihi obviously didn’t ask to see an original, certified copy. It was unnecessary to do so, since the uncertified copy was entered into evidence without objection. You can’t enter a document into evidence to prove one thing (the identity of Obama’s father) and then argue that the document is a fake. If the document is a fake, the plaintiffs failed to prove that Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen.
You can find the two versions issued by the DNC in 2008 on this site.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14583
J. Williams also had later posts which compared the two 2008 versions to John Kerry’s in 2004.
The text of the two versions follows:
No. 1
“THIS IS TO CERTIFY that at the National Convention of the Democratic Party of the United States of America, held in Denver, Colorado on August 25 through 28, 2008, the following were duly nominated as candidates of said Party for President and Vice President of the United States respectively and that the following candidates for President and Vice President of the United States are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution.”
No. 2
“THIS IS TO CERTIFY that at the National Convention of the Democratic Party of the United States of America, held in Denver, Colorado on August 25 through 28, 2008, the following were duly nominated as candidates of said Party for President and Vice President of the United States respectively:
No 1. was sent to Hawaii and No. 2 was sent to Georgia.
Actually the three attorneys did exactly that. Two of them relied on the image to prove that Obama’s father was not a citizen. Orly Taitz argued that the same image was a forgery. I suppose the two NBC attorneys could use a forgery to make their case if it was posted on the WH website.
And once that’s done, why not carve a Braille version of his original certified birth certificate into the headboard of the Lincoln Bed so sight impaired Birthers can tell it’s not a forgery?
And once that’s done, why not put the President’s unwashed underwear on display in the WH to bring his accomplishments into perspective for visiting school children?
And once all 15 billion Birther evidentiary demands are met, and Birthers are all convinced they were wrong and Obama is indeed a “Natural Born Citizen”, Constitutionally, why not build Geodesic dome over Washington DC big enough to allow the mountain of evidence confirming Obama’s eligibility to be piled up in one place, so that Birthers can go on pilgramages there, and spit on it?
Because what you’re really objecting to, is the indignity of the first Black President sailing the ship of state, into Herm’s way.
Well if his BC was not treated as a state secret then he could have had 100 copies sent by certified mail and pocketed the savings. Could it be that the attorney was needed to pick up a thumb drive or DVD on the QT?
Sure Bolonski and Obama didn’t consult with each other! And Bolonski just decided to skip the hearing on his own so that the President would not be represented. When pigs can fly.
Didn’t you hear the news? Minorities don’t have to show their papers anymore, no matter how much you demand to see them.
Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton co-sponsored a bill (non-binding resolution) in the Senate which certified that John McCain is a natural-born citizen. You might wonder why Barack and Hilliary would sponsor such legislation. Just remember Obama never does anything unless HE benefits from it.
Once again, the birther bigots’ asinine and puerile whining is irrelevant.
For Immediate Release
February 7, 2012
(excerpt) Secretary Kemp stated, “After careful consideration of Administrative Law Judge Michael Malihi’s initial decision and all record evidence based on the criteria set forth in this process, I find that the Respondent, President Barack Obama, meets the State of Georgia’s eligibility requirements. President Barack Obama’s name shall remain on the Democratic Party’s 2012 Presidential Preference Primary ballot.”
(source: http://www.sos.ga.gov/pressrel/elections/20120207Secretary%20of%20State%20Kemp%20Issues%20Final%20Decision%20on%20Challenge%20to%20President%20Barack%20Obama’s%20Eligibility%20and%20Qualifications.htm)
Suck on that, birther bigots and morons.
These pathetic, fringe fools can slither back under their rocks.
Yeah, it looks like his reaction to anyone trying to be civil to him or help him is to be a jerk in return. Typical of people who lack social skills and can’t grasp why very few people bother putting up with them. His choice.
It’s not over until the fat lady sings.
It only takes one pitch to hit a home run.
Facts are as hard as diamonds.
Cliches should be avoided like the plague.
But you can still lose the game.
Now that the coffin has been nailed shut, lowered into the ground, and covered in six feet of dirt, let’s see if we can hear the faint sound of the birthers still banging on the lid.
so, preperation H from the amazon Corsi’s fail of a book pops up here? funny, he trolled Amazon, now is looking to get spanked by a bigger better site.
*rolls eyes*. Again, nothing different than how the process has worked for every other incumbent President facing re-election. *duh*
*yawn*. Only in the imaginations of you bitter Birthers, that’s all. Sorry, but back in reality, there was nothing “illegal” about any of Obama’s qualifications to be on any of the states’ ballots. Which is why he is President today and there have been no serious objections or challenges by any qualified and competent entities at all. Only frivolous made-up nonsense by a bunch of sore loser nutters.
He more than just claims that. The state of HI confirms that.
*rolls eyes* Gee, a President whose approval numbers drop during a recession. Imagine that…
Again, no surprise there either. But if you seriously think there is any danger of Obama not winning HI in the General Election in November, then I got a bridge to sell you…
You seem to forget that the only ballot challenge at hand here *is* the Democratic Party’s own internal Party Primary. So of course they are a party of interest, as they filed and submitted his name as a candidate for that position there. *duh*
Sorry, but there simply aren’t any other candidates who decided to go through the process to contest him on the Democratic ballot in GA, so he’s the only name on the list. Nothing unusual there either. Simply how the process works. In other states, there are some folks who went through that states procedures and will appear on the Democratic ballot to challenge him.
Again, nothing new or unusual here in how the process works and has always worked. Also, nothing unusual or different in how he’s being treated vs. any other incumbent President who has run for re-election either. You simply are throwing a tantrum for the sake of throwing an immature tantrum, that’s all.
Look, we get it that you are unhappy about him and that he’s up for re-election and that the thought of him winning another 4 year term causes you a lot of anxiety. That is all you had to say.
There is no need for you to whine about sour grapes on things that are simply how the process has always been and is typical of how the process normally works. You just look transparently petty and juvenile in your meaningless tantrum.
Cue Monty Python. (muffled) “I’m not dead yet.”
BTW all, Preparation H is just repeating the claims he made here:
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Natural-born-citizen-alien/forum/Fx3O0GUS5OOQ7GV/Tx1JBKYX27D1R35/1/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=1936488299
Where he was summarily trounced on every claim. Don’t be surprised when he starts bringing up Fast and Furious as a way to deflect from answering simple questions.
No, let me explain it to you how the real world works. YOU are the one who is coming here and whining. It is up to YOU to provide the evidence to back up the claims YOU make, not anyone else. Simple as that.
Within this very post, you have already huffed and puffed several new claims that you can’t back up:
1. Provide evidence of “Obots inventing your own faux facts”. Sorry, but we’ve been constantly right and inline with reality. Your simple hurt fee-fees of not liking reality doesn’t make something false. Truth hurts sometimes. Deal with it and stop acting like such a pansy.
2. We’ve already told you that this is simply the status quo of reality of how incumbent presidencies running for re-election within their own party are typically handled. So, nothing unusual there. YOU are the one making a claim that it is somehow “illegal”. So it is up to YOU to provide evidence of where actual laws have been violated, not the other way around. Again, you can’t can you. Why, because you are just slinging poo and casting made up aspersions for the sake of having a tantrum, that’s all. You are just an angry blowhard who can’t back up anything you say, because you simply speak out of childish anger and don’t actually know anything about which you are talking about…
If you with to stop being viewed as an ignoramus, stop acting so obtusely ignorant. Simple as that.
birfers gotta birf.
G , don’t waste your time. Preperation H is nothing but a troll from the Amazon forums for Corsi’s fail of a book.
He got spanked there and admits that he is nothing but a troll.
But, Henry, you have no bat!
Good luck documenting that claim.
LOL! So you say… yet you keep coming across like an ignorant fool and empty blowhard every time. Good luck with that, pal. You’ve only been digging a hole since you got here and you just keep digging yourself deeper. You only have yourself to blame. But then again, you are obviously too obtuse and insecure to learn from your mistakes. So knock yourself out and keep up with your “Charlie Sheen *winning*”. It seems to work so well for you… *rolls eyes*
Oh the irony! LMAO! Classic projection. Simple rule – if YOU make a claim, it is up to YOU to back it up. Not anyone else.
Taitz for the memories.
The fat lady died months ago.
The opposing pitcher, the opposing team, and the crowd have gone home. The grounds crew is now repeatedly asking you why you’re standing there with that bat. They’re thinking about calling the police.
You wouldn’t know a fact if it came up to you and serve an invalid subpoena from a Georgia administrative hearing. And diamonds are nowhere near as hard as your head.
In other words, petty ignorant angry people double-down on ignorance. News at 11. Next up: Will the sun rise in the East again tomorrow?
Sorry, Scott. This only backs up what we’ve been saying about the pathetic Cult mentality of the blind leading the blind here. It is called preaching to the choir.
Sorry, but the net effect of a bigger proportion of people who were never going to vote for someone in the first place simply doubling down on excuses to justify why they are voting that way, is still zero.
Further, it just further innoculates anyone outside of the Cult from wanting to jump onboard the crazy train with them…
And as said above, it’s authenticity was stipulated, Orly did not object, therefore there was no need for Mahili to have a certified copy. When a party stipulates to a fact, there is no need for additional confirmation. The whole point of being a lawyer is to say the right thing at the right time. If you don’t, the judge can do whatever he wants with the information you give him.
Is that what you base YOUR determination as to his eligibility on?
If so, when the House and Senate certifiied that Obama was eligible, that settled the matter for you, right?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Thanks for answering. Took you long enough.
Thanks for the link and info.
Not that I should be surprised to find another bitter and unhappy disingenous Birther troll who just flits from place to place, trying to spread the same debunked lies over and over again.
When they can’t win or accomplish anything in reality, playing silly games and throwing tantrums in virtual fantasy land is all that a craven child can do to pretend that they are important…
Perhaps because President Obama is an adult, and not petty and childish like you. I realize that it may be difficult for you to grasp being a petulent child, and all, but that is how we adults work. ANd you know what the real kicker it, the resolution was approved by unanimous consent. Imagine that, a Senate with a Democratic majority passed a Resolution in support of Republican John McCain by unanimous consent.
And we should take your word for this, because clearly, YOU are the authority on what motivates President Obama.
What HDOH can and cannot do with respect to vital statistics records is controlled by law and by HDOH regulations and administrative rules. These controls are not only for control of certified copies of certificates but also for maintenance of the chain of custody on all records of each individual. The chain of custody determines whether or not a certified copy has probative value within the courts. A certified copy has no probative value if the chain of custody is broken. The current law regarding production of replacement original standard certificates defines the acceptable formats for these replacement copies of original certificates.
“§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]”
This law implies that the current top level format is either microfilm or microfiche. If HDOH has converted microphotographic to digital by scanning film then they have done so without revising their laws or their regulations. If this is the case, then they would be in technical violation of §338-19. Moreover they would also be operating without the public input which is required under the Hawaii laws. This may be the case, because the HDOH claims to have imposed through a 2001 Memo a new policy of providing only the abbreviated certificates upon request. It is not clear by what authority HDOH has imposed this policy. This action by HDOH is a matter of litigation in Sunahara v. Fuddy.
Recently the HDOH has taken additional steps to re-name the abbreviated certificate as the standard certificate. However, because abbreviated certificates are prepared on request they are not on file at the HDOH. Hawaii law Ҥ338-18 presumes inspection of HDOH vital statistics records on site at HDOH. This right of inspection is also spelled out in the HDOH regulations in Chapter 8. The new policy of issuing only the abbreviated certificates and also blocking qualified persons from inspecting the original records is also the subject of litigation.
Current HDOH regulations Chapter 8B allow the abbreviated certificates to be computer printed. Moreover, HDOH would not be in violation of the intent of §338-19 if they still maintain the microphotographic system of records and if the transition to computer printed abbreviated certificates was achieved by a reliable method of information transfer from film to computer. The scanning of microfilm or microfiche to digital image would require rigorous tests for reliability. The scanning of film in 35mm or larger format is still a challenge. Commercial microform digitizing systems are available but are expensive. Whether or not HDOH has this capability is unknown. PDF format and OCR are required for information retrieval and storage If HDOH has taken this step, it is not reflected in the Hawaii laws or the HDOH regulations. Conversion of microfilm to digital can also be purchased as a service in batch jobs.
The thing to not about Henry’s “gig” at Amazon, was the duration. It has been trult an outstanding performance. 7 months, over X,000 posts. Repeating the same exact mindless ephemera over and over again. All in the same thread … like it was his baby … even though he didn’t start it. All the while putting up with a dedicated, sarcastic peanut gallery that (*cough*) I wouldn’t know anything about 😉
You can count on the exact same here, and anywhere else he’s slithered too.
Watch for his citations; the gutters this geezer is dragging his mind through, are not fit for human consumption. Henny-Penny is the (Not-So-)Missing Link between birtherism and white supremacy.
And yes, the “fast & furious” thing. It’s his favorite police drama. He can’t get enough and is sure you can’t either.
I presume you have already noted his expertise and verbosity?
So, there’s something disturbingly wrong with him.
Witty!
/yawn
Maybe you could tell me what motivated President Obama to walk out on Jeb and HW Bush after Obama spoke and just before Jeb was scheduled to speak. Jeb and his dad had patiently sat through Obama’s speach. By the way this is the first time at the black tie dinner at the Alfalfa Club that the first speaker has ever walked out on the second speaker.
I guess there’s a first time for everything. Obama is even catching it from the liberal press on this latest outrage.
“Obama criticized for walking out on Jeb Bush”
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/02/obama-criticized-for-walking-out-on-jeb-bush-113587.html
Orly isn’t fat! She’s like a super-sized dumpling fried in lard.
Check your “blah” key Daniel. I believe it must be stuck….
I’m sorry, exactly what does that have to do with his eligibility?
It is what it is.
Oops sorry, I had Google Translate stuck on “cretin”. My fault entirely
Rumor has it he had to go look for Romney’s birth certifiicate. Unfortunately no one can find it.
Now you see why I hate the quote function. It’s because jokers like this one who have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say abuse it. That’s what all children do when they are bored. Where’s the abuse button on this site?
Translation: That’s waaaaaay too embarrassing a question to answer.
And no balls–they got busted.
Sorry, but laws don’t “imply” jack. And here’s a little research project for you. Find me a single case, anywhere in the country, where a court has held that any level of government is required to continue a technologically obsolete method of record retention. Doesn’t happen.
Oh, Let me know how that litigation works out for you. Another point, chain of custody is irrelevant in this instance. The seal is what makes a state document self authenticating in the courts. This means chain of custody is irrelevant….and how exactly did you determine the intent §338-19?
It’s right here:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/contact-2/
Let us know how that works out for you.
Wouldn’t you feel more comfortable on the stormfront.org website?
If you hit the abuse button your mandingo flash mobs you speak about on the amazon forums will come and get you.
It’s nice to have an agent who is in your corner.
Aw, is the big bad site being mean to the little birther? Don’t worry. Once you get to Oz and get that brain from the Apuzzo/Taitz wizard, I’m sure you’ll wow everyone.
Huh? Rigorous tests for reliability? I just can’t help laughing again.
The chain of custody is pretty simple. All the equipment is in the custody of the HDOH. Everything is prepared in house. In addition to that, all the employees have eyes. All they would need to do is check for the accuracy of the final result by comparing it with the original. The Hawaii DOH said that she personally oversaw the process in an official statement, so she’s personally vouching that it was done by the book.
If you’re so sure of this then try to take them to court over it. For all intents and purposes, a modern photocopier or a scan and print meets all the legal requirements to be considered a “dry copy reproduction”. It uses a dry toner and can produce an accurate reproduction of the original.
Hmmm…Wonder why a word search of Judge Malihi’s ruling turns up zero occurrences of the word “stipulated”. Maybe nothing was stipulated????
Don’t want to be ridiculed…stop being ridiculous
And why would he be required to say anything about it in the order. It was entered by every attorney, all of whom were opposing the President. No one objected. Guess what? They’ve stipulated to it.
Where is Romney’s birth certificate? Are you afraid to answer that question? Why?
I’m sure all of this will make Duncan Sunahara drop his law suit. I’ll bet he is greatly relieved because the HDOH finally updated their regulations in 1976. Maybe he read that in a Memo back in 2001.
I’m sure he was relieved when he got his Iraqi Dinars. You have to wonder why Duncan got involved when his mother wanted no part of the birther sham.
A new achievement in creative quote styling! 😛
You’re an object of curiosity, HepHep, fit for a clinical study. I don’t mind giving you props.
I admire your perserverance. The quality of the trolls at Amazon is phenomenal, and you’re the last one standing.
cuz that’s what judges are always supposed to do dummy.
I’m quite sure it will just as successful as every other birther law suit to date.
hermitian, check here- Hawaii has answers for you:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
Whew! Finally, all wrapped up. Save another one.
What time you got, Doc?
7 months, 13 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes. *whew*
😉
Ok, you’re right Henry. This is intolerable. Guys like “Scientist,” they’re nothing but jokers! Ooooo, God, I . . . I HATE jokers. They’re always . . . . JOKING about something! I bet that for you, it’s like being in 7th Grade again, and getting mocked because you were kinda’ clumsy and couldn’t climb that damn rope in gym. Or when nobody would pick you in baseball because you were allergic to wood and threw like a girl.
So you’re right. There SHOULD be an “Abuse” button. Hey, I’ve got an idea!! Why don’t YOU start a blog and put an “Abuse” button on it. Then, whenever people joke about your ideas, or mock your inability to use the “Quote” function, or ridicule your grasp of law and politics, or call you out on your lies and plagiarism, or laugh at your use of “HHHHH’s”–then you can ban them.
Only problem: it wouldn’t be very long until no one ever commented on your blog, because you would have banned everyone—because really, how realistic is it to expect people not to mock a moron?
Hermitian – Look, we know you suffer from ODS. You don’t need to convince us that you don’t like Obama and won’t be voting for Obama. We’ve figured that out already. You are free to vote for whomever you like.
However, you need to not let your obsessive ODS run rimshod over your life…
…nor cause such ODS to spill over into irrelevant non sequiturs here. Please read the Visitor’s Guide and policies of this site. You are simply going way off topic. Learn to focus. If you can’t make an argument relevant to the topic at hand, you lose. Sorry.
Very definitive. And demonstrably untrue. Find me a judgment in which a judgment comments on every piece submitted. Not a list of exhibits. You should be able to come up with a few.
Meanwhile, all a person has to do to knock you out of this park is hit your slowball once, by posting another judgment that does not do so, that was not appealed.
You really wnt to stand by this flippant claim?
Ummm…no actually. Judges are not required to go through every piece of evidence and describe how it was entered. There was ample evidence in the record stating that the President was born in Hawaii….including some that Orly herself entered. No one objected to it. He really doesn’t have to say anything on that subject.
So what you’re saying is that HDOH can just make up the stuff that goes on the printout.
I tend to read what a law says instead of what it doesn’t say. Even Democrat/Obot lawyers were taught to do that in law 101 before they were totally corrupted in law 201.
Now the law says microphotography. It doesn’t say laser scanning or computer storage or laser printing. You can probably get a hint from the fact that the latest revision date on this law is 1959.
Doesn’t the fact that the Hawaii laws and regulations regarding vital statistics are frozen in time make any of you Obots just a little bit curious. For example, this law was last revised the year that Hawaii became a state. But never mind I’m sure Onaka is on top of everything. That’s probably why he had the HDOH security goons evict Duncan Sunahara from his outer office after a four-hour wait.
He would if he was smart. That poor gullible tool of Dean’s disingenous fail quest has been suckered into going along with this stunt.
It is quite apparent and clear how this ends. As they all do. With the HI DOH laws being followed and with the Birther claim being denied.
*yawn*. No. Not at all.
YOU seem to have a particular issue and interest in this. Why don’t YOU contact the HI DOH and ask them about in and then report back here with evidence of your conversation, ok?
Whining about HI DOH policies over here on some blog, where no one agrees with nor cares about your pet “theory” doesn’t get you anywhere.
Take it up with HI and good luck with that…
Here’s one. You should recognize it right away.
The case was submitted to the decision of the court upon the following facts agreed by the parties:
“That the said Wong Kim Ark was born in the year 1873, at No. 751 Sacramento Street, in the city and county of San Francisco, State of California, United States of America, and
Page 169 U. S. 651
that his mother and father were persons of Chinese descent and subjects of the Emperor of China, and that said Wong Kim Ark was and is a laborer.”
“That, at the time of his said birth, his mother and father were domiciled residents of the United States, and had established and enjoyed a permanent domicil and residence therein at said city and county of San Francisco, State aforesaid.”
“That said mother and father of said Wong Kim Ark continued to reside and remain in the United States until the year 1890, when they departed for China.”
“That during all the time of their said residence in the United States as domiciled residents therein, the said mother and father of said Wong Kim Ark were engaged in the prosecution of business, and were never engaged in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China.”
“That ever since the birth of said Wong Kim Ark, at the time and place hereinbefore stated and stipulated, he has had but one residence, to-wit, a residence in said State of California, in the United States of America, and that he has never changed or lost said residence or gained or acquired another residence, and there resided claiming to be a citizen of the United States.”
“That, in the year 1890 the said Wong Kim Ark departed for China upon a temporary visit and with the intention of returning to the United States, and did return thereto on July 26, 1890, on the steamship Gaelic, and was permitted to enter the United States by the collector of customs upon the sole ground that he was a native-born citizen of the United States.”
“That after his said return, the said Wong Kim Ark remained in the United States, claiming to be a citizen thereof, until the year 1894, when he again departed for China upon a temporary visit, and with the intention of returning to the United States, and did return thereto in the month of August, 1895, and applied to the collector of customs to be permitted to land, and that such application was denied upon the sole ground that said Wong in Ark was not a citizen of the United States. ”
Page 169 U. S. 652
“That said Wong Kim Ark has not, either by himself or his parents acting for him, ever renounced his allegiance to the United States, and that he has never done or committed any act or thing to exclude him therefrom.”
The court ordered Wong Kim Ark to be discharged, upon the ground that he was a citizen of the United States. 1 Fed.Rep. 382. The United States appealed to this court, and the appellee was admitted to bail pending the appeal.
Don’t be silly Henry, that wasn’t it. I was wondering if you had any comment on today decision from Kemp? Always so tightlipped about these things … for just long enough to cruise the birthosphere for mindless talking points. No thoughts of your own to add?
Not true, it’s been open for tours for a while. The tickets are hard to get but it’s open. Michelle Obama has been known to greet random guests on the tours for hugs and chats.
Does Romney’s birth certifiicate comply with Michigan law? Or was he born across the river in Ontario, Canada? Or was he born in Switzerland or the Caymans and he banks there out of warm feelings towards his birthplace?
How would anyone know since he refuses to show it. A pdf would be fine by the way. I don’t even care if it has kerning. But wouldn’t you say Mitt is hiding something by refusing to release it?
I thought Jack H. Osbourne was still over there chewing your ear off about Hawaii Hospitals in 1904.
Now, Arthur, if Henry would like to discuss a serious topic, I’ll be happy to be serious.
What about Detroit/Windsor, Ontario hospitals?
My. God. You really don’t have a clue, do you? You sad, silly little man. I’ll not mock you again. I just feel deeply sorry you.
Oh, and I think I your microwave just dinged–bet your Hot Pockets are ready! 😉
You’ve been contradicting and second guessing attorneys who post on this site.
Just curious as to where you got your law degree and in what state did you pass the bar?
I said no such thing.
Sorry….my law didn’t offer either law 101 or law 201. Guess they only offer that on the on-line schools. We did cover basic statutory interpreation in Lawyer skills in first year, however.
and again, good luck convincing a court that in they should adhere to your insane level of literal reading of the statute. It just doesn’t happen. Again, I guess my law school just never taught that the winning argument is to rely on references to archane technology in statutes. Probably because that is never a winning argument.
Not in the least. It’s actually very common.
Well, that’s why we have an Administrative state….so they can keep the details of government running.
And why exactly do you think someone is entitled to camp out in government office indefinitely?
That’s called a recition of the facts. You’ll note there is not a single mention on how the court came to learn of those facts.
Oh holy crap.
I just read some of the thoroughly inane drivel of Hermitian “Henry” on the Amazon forum.
Speaking of certification, this troll is certainly certifiable.
You’ve compared the deision to the oral arguments of Wong? And assert this was every fact mentioned is in these few paragraphs? Oh Henry, you’re digging in.
The non-binding resolution was done as a show of support from McCain’s colleagues that the issue of his birthplace wouldn’t be an issue in the campaign for the primaries or election. If you insist on motives, then think of it as Obama looking like a gentleman for not attacking his peer for something McCain had no control over and probably wouldn’t have mattered anyway. Obama wouldn’t have to look like he was attacking the war hero son of a war hero for being born on assignment for the US. Maybe he gained some acknowledgement that McCain wouldn’t attack Obama’s birth circumstances.
I prefer to think of it as gentlemen acting like gentlemen.
Jack went AWOL, just as his heroes did. I may have made him cry. He never own up to the hospital thing. Hilarious!
For my part, I nominate Hollister v Soetero. A modern classic! Robertson burned’em down to the floor. Not much mention of stipulations or submissions. There was this classic observations tho:
“Mr. Hemenway … has filed about 35 pages of argument and self-justification.”
And with that the judge swept the filings into the circular file.
Potter and I have dealt with him for months now. He’s made insane predictions time and time again that fail to come true and then he doubles down. He’s been caught multiple times and fails to acknowledge it. He changes the subject to black flash mobs and fast and the furious every few posts. He’s the very definition of a troll
Have you noticed how Kevin responds sometimes as if he’s jack and jack responds as if he’s kevin
Not really, I only recall a few posts from Kevin, always reference ancient, ancient birther 1.0 memes, for the thread’s “consideration”. Real apocrypha contemporary birthers wouldn’t recognize.
Jack is just old, lonely, and bored. It’s bad when you have to remind the troll who said what, in what order. I hope he went out for some air, getting his mind off negativity.
Sharing his oldest birthermarks i guess 😉
Same deal seen here, random drop-ins excited about there ‘new’ find. *groan*
So you are saying that no birth certificate from the State of Hawaii can be used in a court of law? Wow. If I were you, I’d call my Hawaiian State Rep and bring it up.
IANAL, but that sounds like nonsense to me. President Obama’s documentation was different, but within Hawaiian law — so says the AG of Hawaii. The process by which President Obama’s certified copy of his birth record was produced was documented by the Director of the Department of Health in a letter posted on the DoH website. This was a special case as the DoH no longer produces records like that. The Director, in consultation with the AG of the state, determined that “Director Fuddy exercised her legal authority in a completely appropriate manner in this unique circumstance.” The Governor agreed. The Full Faith and Credit Clause says that Georgia must accept the record of Hawaii. So 3 officials from Hawaii and 2 from Georgia are happy with the fact that Hawaii established the legal basis for declaring that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii after Hawaii became a state.
Whether that was by a typewriter, a scanner, a videotape, a placemat in crayon — Hawaii says Obama was born there, and GA agreed.
I caught Jack responding to a post a made to kevin in the first person as if i said it to him
He also asked to be able to witness the process. How does letting a non-employee there help with the chain of custody?
Again – dry, copy, reproduction. That means dry toner, a copying process, and an accurate reproduction of the original. Now if they used an ink jet printer, then maybe you have a point, although I’d even think that might even stand judicial scrutiny. I’m pretty sure an ink jet printer would be considered a computer printout. I’ve seen older Pennsylvania BCs that were printed out with a dot-matrix printer.
Where is the State web page that vouches for Romney’s birth records? Or should we start checking Canadian province web sites?
Here is Hawaii vouching for Obama’s birth: (which I am sure is just too painful for Hermione to click and read)
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
Now where is Romney’s?
If Huntsman had stayed in the race, it would have been a no-brainer verifying his birth records. California considers birth records to be public, and anyone off the street can request an informational certificate. However, I still see a lot of his bios (even on his campaign website) that say he was born in Palo Alto when his BC says he was born in Redwood City.
Irrelevant. If it was a forgery, it proved nothing.
The point, which I have made repeatedly, is that Van Irion entered it into evidence and nobody challenged it. Read the transcripts. At no point did Van Irion or Mark Hatfield question its authenticity. Orly questioned it, but she failed to put on a witness who was qualified to question it.
By the preponderance of admissibile evidence, it was deemed to be authentic and probative.
Why not 330 million copies?
It’s in Mexico, where his father was born to a polygamist. When George Romney ran for prez, there wasn’t this outcry. Weird, huh?
George Romney’s father had multiple wives, so no one knows who George’s mother really was. Again, no outcry. Weird, huh?
The birth certificate is in the glovebox of a Rambler, parked in front of the Mexican house George Romney was born in.
Oops, I made a mistake. When George was born in Mexico, Ramblers were still made by Nash, so it should be “The birth certificate is in the glovebox of a Nash.” The cars were not called Rambler, until Nash merged with Kelvinator, a refrigerator maker.
And that explains everything.
I couldn’t help but notice that Hermitian failed to mention that one of the co-sponsors of the resolution was the conservative Republican Tom Coburn. Maybe Coburn is secretly an Obot?
Well, I do have it on good authority that Obama doesn’t take a crap unless it benefits him.
But I suspect you are overreaching, a bit.
Maybe more than a bit.
More like a lot.
OK, you are full of crap and should probably go do something that benefits you.
The Fugitive Slave Law was repealed on June 28, 1864. Do try to keep current.
Why not more since he may need to show it to people born in the next 4 years as well
A Wagner fan, I see. Wagner was a proto-Nazi. His daughter Winifred, was an active member of the Nazi party.
Echoing already? You have yet to substantiate this statement. It’s an open invitation to run down the man’s character. Give it a go.
I don’t want to disagree, Misha, but I have to.
The fact that George’s father was a polygamist doesn’t mean that the baby comes out of the father’s womb.
Now, if his mother had multiple husbands, then we wouldn’t know who the father was, not being able to tell which womb a baby emerged from is just silly.
I was under the impression that the Jewish tradition recognized this explicitly. Am I wrong?
Amazing. When did you learn that?
“Obama is not running for a second term as the President.” Huh? Get help.
“He is running for a second term as a person just like any other smuck.”
1 – It’s spelled ‘schmuck.’ You sound just like that crackpot Bachmann, when she makes her comical attempts at Yiddish.
2 – He is running for a 2nd term as our president, not like any other schmuck like you. We had to put up with 8 years of
BushCheney. Hey, where are those WMDs, and the mobile bio-weapons labs? Let me know when they are found.Coburn is a Republican. John McCain is also a Republican. Who knows why Coburn signed on. He is one of the more unpredictable conservatives. The Democrats controlled the Senate. Otherwise the Senate would have looked into Obama’s qualifications. I personally believe that the focus on McCain’s eligibility was all about taking the spotlight off Obama’s questionable citizenship. After all John McCains mother was living and remembered being there at his birth. She testified that the officers celebrated McCain’s birth at the officer’s club near the base hospital while she rested.
“I don’t want to disagree, Misha, but I have to.” This is turning into a Talmudic discussion, which I love.
“Now, if his mother had multiple husbands, then we wouldn’t know who the father was, not being able to tell which womb a baby emerged from is just silly.” Here’s my scenario: George Romney’s father had
a haremmutiple wives. Since George wasconceived in the back seat of a Nashborn at home, and his father wanted him born as an American citizen, the authorities could have been told that George’s mother was Martha, a US citizen – rather than Mercedes, a Mexican national.“Now, if his mother had multiple husbands” Whenever someone defends polygamy, I always say I will support them, if they support polyandry.
“I was under the impression that the Jewish tradition recognized this explicitly. Am I wrong?” Orthodox and Conservative branches recognize matrilineal lineage only. Reform and Reconstructionist (I am Reconstructionist), recognize matrilineal or paternal lineage. For example, Frida Kahlo is in the Jewish museum, even though her mother was Mexican Indian.
The reason behind this is tragedy. Women have always been the spoils of war, and Jewish authorities wanted the children born from this, recognized as Jewish.
Dr C: Sorry for the double post. Edit if you wish.
Yeah, just like Bush and Cheney. See Iraq. Lots of oil there.
Intrade has Obama at 59%.
You’re a complete fool if you think the senate would have looked into Obama’s qualifications if Republicans controlled the Senate. The Republicans have been in charge of the House for almost 2 years, and exactly how much time have they spent looking into Obama’s citizenship? Exactly none. The reason anything was done regarding McCain’s citizenship is because he was not born on US soil. Obama was. There is no question, whatsoever that being born US soil makes you a natural born citizen. There is actually some debate in the legal community as to whether you can statutorily make an NBC (mcCain’s claim to citizenship is based on a law congress passed…AFTER he was born), so the fact that they were celebrating in the officer’s club in Panama is dispositive of exactly of NOTHING. So again, what you believe is exposed as another meaningless festering turd.
“Oh, shut up. You will be in a few hours.”
OMG! She doesn’t observe kosher.
So the answer is “Well, yes and no”, typical. 😎
On the tip of each of your
pawsfingers.One explanation is that he agreed with the resolution. There doesn’t always have to be some nefarious conspiracy to explain why someone does something you don’t support.
I curious: how exactly would the Senate have “looked into Obama’s qualifications”? Would there be Senate hearings? Has the Senate ever convened hearings to examine the qualifications of a candidate for President?
But you have no supporting evidence to raise this belief above the level of speculation, right?
Huh? There was never a question that she gave birth to McCain, or that his birth was outside of the United States. In McCain’s case, the constitutional question was whether the location of his birth disqualified him for natural-born citizen status.
Goose fat? Would that be ok?
That’s a remarkable claim. Can you back it up? I didn’t think so, but I, on the other hand, might be able to prove it doubtful. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham was saying in 2009 that Republicans should be telling birthers that they’re crazy. Karl Rove was calling the birther issue an Obama trap.
How can you say with a straight face that a Republican majority in the Senate would have led to investigations of Obama’s eligibility when NOT ONE MEMBER of the Republican minority called for it?
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid30183074001?bctid=42981023001
It depends on how the goose was slaughtered.
Well, he is a birther. Since he’s used up all of the other birther talking points already it’s about time for him to start saying that the entire Republican party was somehow either “paid off” or “coerced.” The desperation of ignorant birthers would be funny if it weren’t so damn sad.
Henry, our dear Sen. Coburn is extremely predictable. He is only outdone in predictability by our other Senator, James Inhofe. Truly, Oklahoma is uniquely blessed in the way of Senators.
Here a clip that should help explain. I’m sorry to say it’s pretty dull.
http://newsok.com/u.s.-sen.-tom-coburn-barack-obama-form-unlikely-friendship/article/3351361
For more commentary on their friendship, some of it right up your crazy, you know what to do:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tom+coburn+obama+friendship
When I was a kid, and struggling with my own doubts, I asked our Rabbi if Jews believed in an afterlife. He thought for a moment, then gave a massive, comic shrug and said, “I dunno. We have enough to worry about here.”
“Testified”? Where? When? For what reason?
There are too many to list. But lately he decided that Super Packs are OK even though he gave the POTUS hell for their decision in his 2010 SOU address.
See was interviewed together with John McCain by the MSM and questioned about the circumstances of his birth.
This is off topic for this thread. If you can’t stay on subject, I’ll put you in moderation. I also note that your sentence is obvious nonsense. Obama IS the POTUS.
I guess you have a strange understanding of the word ‘testified’…
Lame dodge; give us a partial.
He gave himself ‘hell’? You got two great bloopers into one sentence!
‘Interviewed’ and ‘testified’ don’t amount to the same thing in any universe, even the bizarro universe you seem to occupy.
Oh yeah, how about a link to the interview?
Duh! Not only was John McCain’s mother present at his birth but she also remembered where his birth occurred. That’s why all this focus on McCain was baloney (bologna).
SCOTUS My bad but I think every one gets it.
And you (and/or other birthers) would have believed it if Obama’s mother was still alive and “testified” (or “said in an interview”, rather) that she gave birth to him in Hawaii? Somehow I doubt that. After all, your ilk has been claiming for years that she was involved in some clever scheme to sneak a Kenyan-born baby back into the US and dupe Hawaiian officials as to its real birthplace.
But McCain’s mother saying “yeah, I gave birth to him there” is OK for you?
Arthur
hermitian: The Democrats controlled the Senate. Otherwise the Senate would have looked into Obama’s qualifications.
I curious: how exactly would the Senate have “looked into Obama’s qualifications”? Would there be Senate hearings? Has the Senate ever convened hearings to examine the qualifications of a candidate for President?
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
The last time was when the Senate and House convened to count the electorial vote.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
So you want me to respond to a question out of context?
But you actually need a bat to hit the ball.
Dobbs wrote that in his autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, McCain wrote that he was born “in the Canal Zone” at the U.S. Naval Air Station in Coco Solo, which was under the command of his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. “The senator’s father, John S. McCain Jr., was an executive officer on a submarine, also based in Coco Solo. His mother, Roberta McCain, now 96, has vivid memories of lying in bed listening to raucous celebrations of her son’s birth from the nearby officers’ club. The birth was announced days later in the English-language Panamanian American newspaper.”[62][63][64][65]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Born_Citizen_Clause#John_McCain
I know I said I wouldn’t mock you anymore, because you are so clearly suffering from mental impairment, but I’ve changed my mind. Quoting your ridiculous response to my earlier question is enough mockery for now.
So you didn’t actually see an interview from the MSM where they appeared together like you tried to play it off
No, I’d like a consistent set of rules. If I can summarize your rules are:
1. A non-binding Senate resolution makes you eligiible (McCain).
2. A binding count of the Electoral College votes by the House and Senate as prescribed in the Constitution does not make you eligible (Obama).
3. Birth outside the US makes you eligible if your mother remembers it (McCain).
4. Birth in the US supported by official documents does not make you eligible if your mother happens to be dead (Obama).
5. Not showing birth certificates to anyone makes you eligiible (Romney, Gingrich,,Santorum, Paul).
6. Showing birth certificate to one reporter with no copies allowed makes you eligible (McCain)
7. Showing birth certificate to the entire planet does not make you eligible (Obama)
And there actually has to be a game going on otherwise you’re playing with yourself
So you’re saying that congress hasn’t done anything for the last 3 years let alone convened together during several SOTUs
Jan 2009. They’ll do it again in about 11 months, as they do every January after a Presidential election. This is generally a national news item, and recorded in congressional records.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=CREC&browsePath=2009%2F01%2F01-08%5C%2F5%2FHOUSE&isCollapsed=false&leafLevelBrowse=false&isDocumentResults=true&ycord=0
Irony? That doesn’t look like a question.
You left out two rules:
8: Having your birth announced in a Panamanian newspaper makes you born in the Canal Zone (McCain)
9. Having your birth announced in a Hawaiian newspaper makes you not born in Hawaii (Obama)
Sorry about the character set problem. I finally understand it, but I don’t know what to do about it. If I hadn’t tried to fix it wrong before, it would be easier to fix it now.
Basically the Posts table is encoded with UFT-8 and the Comments are encoded with Latin1. Whichever way I set the database, one of them will be wrong. I guess what I am going to have to do is figure out how to fix the encoding of the Posts table.
Henry Hermit buys a book: http://doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/02/07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2XTDHltNVU
Oh! You mean that Doonesbury guy who masquerades as a comic strip on the editorial page?
There is a game going own all right but the elites will never tell us what the new rules are.
One more and we’ll have the Ten Commandments of Birtherism.
It does when your 95-year old Mother is still living and remembers everything about your birth. Talk about a bogus issue!
Campaign ad, MSM? You seem to be confusing your stories.
There is no game you guys lost. You’re crying for extra innings after you lost 99-0 in the bottom of the 9th.
Not very familiar with the history of the art form, Herms? I think you need to read more comics!
I hate to break it to you Scientist but you are riding a dead horse off a cliff. McCain is a NBC and if you don’t like it take it up with the U.S. Senate.
I think the tenth rule, the one that supercedes all others, is: Notwithstanding any of the above 9 rules or any other rules now or in the future, Obama is ineligible
FIFY
This little unhinged douche waffle seems to be as racist and paranoid as they come. So, when does he start babbling about black flash mobs and Fast and Furious?
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Natural-born-citizen-alien/forum/Fx3O0GUS5OOQ7GV/Tx1JBKYX27D1R35/113?asin=1936488299
I hate to break it to YOU Henry, but Obama is an NBC and if you don’t like it take it up with BOTH the US Senate and the US House.
“McCain is a NBC and if you don’t like it take it up with the U.S. Senate.”
But not one controlled by the Democratic Party of course. 😛
Isn’t Romney one of those “elites” writing all new rules?
Was going to add this but noticed one and two touched on it.
10. Mccain is by virtue of a Senate resolution passed in the senate. Obama not eligible by virtue of a resolution celebrating Hawaii as a state and Obama being born there.
Give him time. Once we pound him a bit more on his lack of a coherent argument he’ll deflect with flash mobs and F&F and make this thread so long that Doc will have to close it.
I hate to break it to you herm, but President Obama is eligible. If you don’t like it, take it up with both houses of Congress, Dick Cheney, ever elector who voted for him, every American who cast a ballot for him, the State of Hawaii, Chief Justice Roberts, Justice O’Connor, ALJ Mahili, the Indiana Court of Appeals, and the 4th Circuit, not to mention every competent lawyer in the US.
Actually, make that the Eastern District of Virginia, not the 4th Cir. I got a little ahead of myself.
So in other words, if my mother either 1) died tomorrow, or 2) suddenly forgot about when and where I was born, my birth certificate suddenly becomes worthless “forgery” because she isn’t alive to corroborate it. Good to know.
Alright, so now we have established that McCain and Obama are both NBCs by virtue of Senate resolutions or joint resolutions of the House and Senate, respectively. I note that there are NO resolutions concerning Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul, so they are all ineligible.
The Republicans had a bigger problem. They were busy trying to keep the old Democrat bulls of the Senate from declaring John McCain ineligible. It was a tit for tat deal.
Don’t forget! All this birther stuff was originally started by Hillary Clinton’s Pumas who raised the question of Obama’s eligibility. Then the MSM put all their focus on John McCain’s eligibility and Obama’s problem was just ignored.
Please do not post under my handle.
Where is Santorum’s birth certificate?
Where is Romney’s birth certificate?
Where is a resolution pronouncing them eligible?
That’s probably because President Obama never had any “problem” to begin with. There’s a reason why Hillary Clinton (and John Edwards, and John McCain, and Sarah Palin) never raised the issue during either the primaries or the general election: there was no issue to be raised. Maybe next you’ll tell us that the scientific community is ignoring the flat earth “problem.”
You’ve probably figured this out by now, but all of the folks who post here have been debunking birther nonsense for the past few years now. There is literally nothing you can say that the posters here haven’t already defeated with a little help from our friends logic, reality, and legal precedent. You are the one riding a dead horse off of a cliff.
Absolutely OK!
I don’t remember seeing a video of Obama and his Mother where she was remembering his birth circumstances. Maybe you could post one.
I dunno, perhaps he’s enjoying the extra attention here. He’s snipper, and lost his famous HHHHHHHHHHHHH’s 😛 Hope he enjoys it while it lasts!
Really? On what grounds would they have decided that? I thought Vattelism was universal, Henry! Are you now alleging that it’s a party issue? Reds are Vattelists, Blues are constitutionalists? Don’t think I’ve seen this specifically stated before!
Who werer these “old bulls”?
If you are unable to accept anything at face value until given reason otherwise, how can you expect to function in society?
Exactly…which was not in the United States. And she also remember when it happened, which was 2 or three years before Congress passed a law making the children of service members born in the Canal Zone citizens.
Yeah he’s basically saying if your mother gets altzheimer’s your certificate suddenly becomes a forgery.
Except no one in the democratic party leadership was trying to declare McCain ineligble. You actually have to have a tit for there to be tat. Also the Pumas weren’t Hillary Clinton’s to command. They came about because hillary lost and never shared Hillary’s views, just he female nomenclature.
reverend. Al
i’d like to see all of the originals, is that unreasonable ?? and i don’t mean me personally, i mean on tv with geraldo, reverend al and clint eastwood in attendance, debbie wasserman as first alternate, and an eligible center fielder to be named at a later date…
And what Senate Old Democrat bull even raised or even mentioned the issue? Oh yeah. None of them. Just more unsubstantiated B.S. on your part.
Yes. One crazy nut raised the issue. Berg. What exactly does that have to do with the Seante. And the media pretty much ingnored both issues. There really wasn’t any “focus.” And you keep forgetting. There was problem for Obama. It was widely known he was going to run for President some time in the future when he gave his speech at the 2004 convention. Yet no one every discussed his purported “problem” until a certain professional poker player suddenly “discovered” (although at the time he was saying he is trying to change the law) an interpretation of the Constitution that somehow no one ever knew existed.
Leo the Parakeet has another slam of the SCOTUS. The Justices are either “corrupt or stupid”.
The Mr. Binney Funeral Humiliates The Reputation Of The United States Supreme Court.
Posted in Uncategorized on February 7, 2012 by naturalborncitizen
(excerpts) The lack of historical analysis evident in every judicial opinion which has discussed Obama’s eligibility is staggering. If you compare Judge Malihi’s recent opinion in Georgia, and the Ankeny case from Indiana, to important citizenship decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court, it becomes clear what separates the men from the boys. In a word; research. . .
[Leo’s] revelation leaves us with a very rotten opinion from Wong Kim Ark that has determined our national citizenship policy, which, as can be seen from the lack of research applied to it by the lower courts reviewing Obama’s eligibility (none of which mentioned any of the clear errors made by Justice Gray, and pointed out here at this blog), continues to have broad ranging implications that directly touch national security with regard to who is eligible to be commander in chief.
The analysis I have provided in this report, when added to the rest of the sad story concerning Justice Gray’s many errors of law and fact as shadowed by the Chester Arthur controversy, leaves the nation’s highest court looking either corrupt, or stupid. If Justice Gray was aware of the true chronology of the three versions of Binney’s paper, he is guilty of directly, and purposely, defrauding the nation. If he was guilty of negligence, that’s almost just as bad. The U.S. Supreme Court is not supposed to look this bad.
(source: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/)
Either corrupt or stupid. No logical fallacy there, right?
In their defense..Who really thought that Hillary was beatable. Why check up on a green politician (especially African-American). By the time it became serious…it was too late. And that is part of their argument, but it is their own fault.
They did not take it seriously and are miffed at how this could happen. They think he is hiding something since he slipped under the radar. Nothing gets past them unless its nefarious.
Even so, if there were any basis for those rumors the Republican party would have definitely found a way to “leak” it into the general election. There’s no way that the McCain campaign would not have used what amounts to a silver bullet to derail President Obama’s candidacy if they had the means to do so. The same is true for Clinton. If the birther nonsense were actually true there’s no way it would have slipped under the radar.
I agree, but it falls on deaf ears to “birthers”. The conspiracy theories of backroom deals and threats they like to throw around.
ow
The backroom deal nonsense was always funny to me…in a Presidential election with the entire country at stake. John McCain knows a devastating secret about his opponent that he somehow agreed not to use against said opponent, instead opting for a lengthy, expensive, exhausting campaign instead. Yep, makes perfect sense to me!
Well, isn’t that what already happened? Basically, you’re asking journalists to look at it and give you some pictures.
The 2008 Certification of Live Birth was seen and photographed by FactCheck.org.
The 2010 Certificate of Live Birth was shown to the press at the White House news conference. NBC News correspondent Savannah Guthrie took pictures of it and said she personally felt the raised seal.
You might quibble about Clint Eastwood, but essentially what you’re asking for already happened, twice.
Pathetic, I didn’t, I posted under mine and demonstrated your real intent.
‘ee’s a bit of a control freak, that one is! Henry begins and ends there. Now he’s back at Amazon!
Weren’t those 2007 and 2011 documents?
In any case, imagine Obama obtains a current abstract, and the birthers minds implode when they see it’s been renamed “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”.
the stakes are too high for the gold standard to be “basically”.
i’m searching for “exactly”, and more to the point, why we can’t just get there.
after all of this time….
Not really. By a year before the election, there were acknowl\edged to be only 3 Dems with a chance-Hillary, Obama and Edwards. Certainly, by Feb 2008, no one could say Obama didn’t have a chance.
So, all one had to do was know his father was from Kenya, which he mentioned often in his speeches-one didn’t even have to read his book. And, according to the birthers, the fact that you needed 2 citizen parents was in every civics textbook. No researrch required. And yet, as Obama won primaries, got the nomination and took the lead over McCain, nobody bothered to say a word until about a week before the election.
For Romney or Santorum? You can’t see them for Gingrich because they don’t issue them on the Moon. And you can’t see Ron Paul’s because in the Paleolithic Era they just made rock cairns and the winds have blown his down by now.
Who cares? If this was a legitimate concern, why hasn’t the drum been beating for decades? Vattel didn’t start writing in 2008.
This is like the Red candidates complaining about the rules after they got bounced.
All birther arguments are sour grapes. Bought by the paranoid and/or bigoted, and push by exploitation artists.
Sure!!! All the founding fathers and drafters of the U.S constitution were really worried about all those lawfully naturalized citizens to come and could have cared less about the newborns of illegal aliens.
WHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHAT
It appears you meant to say you believe they were unconcerned about
the children of aliens being eligible to the Presidency. (corrected the
grammar for you.)
Amusing how, when trying to be sarcastic, you come closer to sanity.
Please find some commentaries by the Founders about ‘illegal
immigration’ if you can.
WHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHATWHAT
Finally you got something right, although I’m guessing you’re being sarcastic and don’t know how correct you are.
For those who are interested in actually understanding reality, immigration to the United States could not have been “illegal” per se around the time of the Constitution. There were actually no laws restricting immigration to the United States until the Page Act and the Chinese Exclusion Act – both in the late 1800s.
The Founding Fathers wouldn’t have worried about illegal immigrants because there was no such concept at the time.
Yes, the PUMAs, another EPIC FAIL group based entirely on irrational hate, were one of the main early proponents of such Birther nonsense. Most of the hard core PUMAs ended up voting for McCain and moved to support RW causes after the 2008 election. Many became devoted members of SarahPAC or Birthers or Tea Party types or any combination of the above. What is rare is to find a hard core PUMA that doesn’t vote mainly GOP at this point.
Therefore, obviously these folks weren’t really driven by Democratic Party values… something else was a more primal emotional driver for them. Why do you suppose that Obama suddenly caused such a paradimn shift in these former HRC supporters…hmmm? Obama’s policy positions were generally very similar to HRC’s. Also, there is very little that HRC’s views and Palin’s views have in common… other than both of them are female.
So, all that mostly leaves for true PUMA motivations is sexism and racism as being the straws that caused them to snap and become what they became…
Re: John McCain – the MSM barely made any mention or issue about his Birth either. Other than a few academics who would simply broach the issue from time to time (because yes, birth outside of US remains a slight gray area in terms of NBC), it was rarely ever discussed. The few lawsuits that were filed to challenge McCain’s birth didn’t come from Democratic Party folks either.
So no, spare us any weak attempt to create a false equivalence here. The true root causes of such paranoia and irrational fear are pretty much the same then as they are now.
There was never any effort by the Democratic Party to declare John McCain ineligible. You are just making that up yourself.
In fact, the Senate Resolution itself proves just the opposite – a complete bipartisan solidarity to support McCain’s eligibility from the very get-go.
Yes, that is completely unreasonable.
I could take a few sentences and make fun of your “gold standard” (Clint Eastwood and Reverend Al), but that’s not the real point.
There is no exactly in this life. I’ve read the academic works on conspiracy theories. They talk about people being unable to live with uncertainty. The inability to tolerate uncertainty is part of obsessive compulsive behavior too.
You either have a personality flaw that you could get help with if you wanted (anxiety over uncertainty) or you are just making up impossible criteria to prolong what you think is a smear that will influence the next election.
In either case, I recognize no validity in your desire. This is your problem, not my problem, not the country’s problem and not the President’s problem.
i’ll bet you voted for kennedy though. and mike gravel. doesn’t this kind of talk make you a moonist ?? and agist my friend, and isn’t that considered to be discriminatory…. even in the democrat party ?
The first eligibility lawsuit was filed by a New Hampshire Republican, Fred Hollander, who claimed that McCain was not eligible. The lawsuit was dismissed, of course.
No Democrat that I am aware of ever tried to have McCain declared ineligible.
The democrat party doesn’t exist. There is a party called the Democratic Party.
Now that I have you, when you ask for original birth certificates (whatever that means), do you mean from ALL candidates or only Obama? Just trying to see if you are worth bothering with or just a hypocrite.
Actually, the concept of illegal aliens didn’t exist at the time of the writing of the Consitution. The first statute restriction immigration was the Page Act of 1875, limiting the number of Asians entering the country. Before that, the borders were completely open.
And being that President Obama was not an immigrant, his mother’s family has been in the US for God only knows how many generations, and his father was here legally, it really has nothing to do with the discussion here.
Everyone’s in on it, G …. e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e! He’s a pan-conspiracist. Helpful in denying everything. If you dig in deep enough to make your crazy explain everything, you’ll never get out.
i know, i saw doc’s reference a few squares up.
are you a psychologist doc ?
i like when you wax rhapsotic, you should more often… go ahead with the gold standard stream, i’m curious.
Well said, on both points. It bears constant repeating for the delusional revisionists out there…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama#Distant_relations
😉
And that is exactly what the paranoid conspiracy mindset almost always results in: *everybody* is in on the conspiracy…except them… and their small band of link-minded conspiracy cranks…
No, I’m not a psychologist, but I have been doing a lot of reading lately, some of it by psychologists. The “in your face” arguments between birthers and anti-birthers really isn’t my interest. I’m involved in this topic to understand what makes the birthers tick.
I’m not interested in the gold standard stream. I’m much more interested in why you’re uncomfortable with the mountain of evidence already available.
me too…
Arguably, the Founding Fathers *WERE* illegal immigrants.
You don’t need to be a psychologist to see that you’re completely bonkers. (And I say this as a foreigner who has no interest in Obama’s legitimacy whatsoever.)
I’ve seen smelly people handing out greasy leaflets outside subway stations that made more sense than you.
I read, “All That Is Wrong with Georgia State Judge Michael M. Malihi’s Decision that Putative President Obama Is a “Natural Born Citizen” By Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
As if for Mario, “All That Is Wrong…” wouldn’t include the failure of Malihi’s Decision, to put another drunk driver back behind the wheel.
Obviously, putative Constitutional scholar Mario doesn’t have the strength of his actual practice’s DUI clients’ convictions.
Benji Franklin
Er, you forgot Justice Clarence Thomas (Donofrio vs Wells). I do not think he could be said to be included under “every competent lawyer in the US”.
Not being the most computer literate person on the planet, I can’t figure out whether this site is active or down. Sometimes when I click on “home” I get a Site Unavailable message. Sometimes when I google Obama conspiracy theories there is a 2.0 version and a 2.1 version but neither of them seem to have new comments added since 2/9/12.
Any information on the current status of this site would be helpful as I try to read a bit every day.
I had a ton of trrouble using IE at work (*ahem*), but that cleared up around noon yesterday, when Doc noted DNS entried should be cleared up. Haven’t had any trouble with Firefox, beyond what has been documented by Doc.