The occasional open thread: Deliver us from evil edition

Posted on March 30, 2012 by Dr. Conspiracy

Put your Obama Conspiracy comments not related to the current articles here. Comments will close in two weeks.

About Dr. Conspiracy

I'm not a real doctor, but I have a master's degree.
This entry was posted in Open Mike and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

220 Responses to The occasional open thread: Deliver us from evil edition

  1. bob j says:
    March 30, 2012 at 12:19 am  (Quote)

    It is strange some of the places I have random bookmarks. Yesterday, I was trying to go to a site and I clicked too fast; ended up at Orly’s site. I have been trying to avoid that not-so-hot mess but I scrolled down anyway.The first item was about the ” conspiracy” to take out Paul Wellstone, the senator from Minn who was killed in a plane crash just before the 2002 election.

    I laughed because of the recent articles here about birthers and the tendency they have towards all sorts of conspiracy theories.

    So, my question to the birthers who come here is: If it is all a conspiracy and everyone in power is in on it, what is the point of fighting?

    If I am in the backseat of a car driven by a lunatic, does it matter if I know he is out to destroy me?

    Can you really be a freedom fighter if you are destined to lose?

  2. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 6:48 am  (Quote)

    DrC:

    I have added a Pravda link to the list of Birther websites at my place as a convenience to Birthers who want to keep up with what their Comrades are writing. I have also added some music for them, so that they will feel at home.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/for-the-dianna-and-others-talyanochka-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8-b%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%85-c%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD-o%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8F/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl reporter

  4. Keith says:
    March 30, 2012 at 9:43 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    DrC:

    I have added a Pravda link to the list of Birther websites at my place as a convenience to Birthers who want to keep up with what their Comrades are writing. I have also added some music for them, so that they will feel at home.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/for-the-dianna-and-others-talyanochka-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8-b%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%85-c%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD-o%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8F/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl reporter

    I kinda expected this music but maybe not the quite the same words.

  5. Keith says:
    March 30, 2012 at 11:11 am  (Quote)

    Interesting article at Mother Jones by Chris Mooney: Diagnosing the Republican Brain

    Discusses “Conservapedia”, anti-science, fact denial in general, voodoo economics, etc. from the point of view that he is talking to a liberal audience that simply doesn’t understand that these things exist.

    Then he asks why are Conservatives usually wrong and LIberals right? He describes one possible answer, but is unsatisfied with it. He goes on to describe

    “a mounting body of evidence—from political science, social psychology, evolutionary psychology, cognitive neuroscience, and genetics—that points to a key conclusion. Political conservatives seem to be very different from political liberals at the level of psychology and personality. And inevitably, this influences the way the two groups argue and process information.

    He then points out that this means that the way Liberals ‘traditionally’ try to educate Conservatives is never going to work.

  6. JPotter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 11:34 am  (Quote)

    Keith: He then points out that this means that the way Liberals traditionally’ try to educate Conservatives is never going to work.

    Well, duh. It’s always been about using them as sounding boards to collectively educate each other. For me anyway.

    Thanks for the link, it’s a good article …. don’t think I’ve ever seen any writer take journalistic notice of Conservapedia before.

    Oh, how they’ll howl when conservatism is added to the DSM-5. Just saving that for O’s 2nd term. As soon as the Inauguration is in the books, APA will finally be clear to publish the long awaited tome.

    And that’s how rumors get started. i hope.

  7. richCares says:
    March 30, 2012 at 11:56 am  (Quote)

    conservapedia is a funny site, kind of “the Onion” of garbage
    Study: Trust in science among educated conservatives plunges
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/study-trust-science-among-educated-conservatives-plunges-133908205.html

  8. JPotter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 1:34 pm  (Quote)

    richCares: Trust in science among educated conservatives plunges

    Yep, and what form does that mistrust take? Not that science itself is evil or the scientific method is wrong, but rather that the “scientific community” is a …. government … CONSPIRACY!

    Dingdingding! The paranoia runs deep. If it isn’t what’s wished for, just deny it, don’ try to overcome it. Education is used to create more elaborate denials and carefully constructed cardhouses of faulty logic. And passed these “insights” on to the less educated willing believers.

    The insidious part is the reliance on consensus as opposed to data and experience / results …. they don’t have to trust scientists, no one should take anyone’s word for a claim, the whole point of the scientific method is not having to! But instead of following the science of a claim and looking for confirmation or grounds for dismissal, they start with a conclusion and look for ways to construct support for their view of the claim. And then spread their top-down case around, to generate a consensus based on desire, rather than science.

    Why listen to truth when you can hear you’re right?

    All progress is hindered by dragging a collective ball and chain forged by denialists.

  9. Tomtech says:
    March 30, 2012 at 1:41 pm  (Quote)

    Keith:
    Then he asks why are Conservatives usually wrong and LIberals right?

    Don’t you know that scientists and the media are in league with the liberals such that the liberal meme ends up being portrayed as the correct one. It’s all part of the global left wing conspiracy to make the “right” wrong.

  10. Mary Brown says:
    March 30, 2012 at 2:16 pm  (Quote)

    Neither nor and either or. Both liberals and conservatives are right and wrong. Both dismiss the other with snark, insult or attempts at humor. Both are arrogant. Neither can admit the other might possess a worthwhile idea or might be worth listening too. Those of us who are neither are like like the civilians caught between two armies in a civil war with no purpose other than the destruction of the other-with no regard for the consequences because after all they are always right. A pox on both your houses.

  11. G says:
    March 30, 2012 at 2:47 pm  (Quote)

    Ah, the easy glib false-equivalency of “both sides do it”, without ever even identifying or addressing any specific issue….

    What you have demonstrated is one of the false tropes that in the end, says nothing, just lazily acerbates the problem and solves nothing.

    Mary Brown: Neither nor and either or. Both liberals and conservatives are right and wrong. Both dismiss the other with snark, insult or attempts at humor. Both are arrogant. Neither can admit the other might possess a worthwhile idea or might be worth listening too. Those of us who are neither are like like the civilians caught between two armies in a civil war with no purpose other than the destruction of the other-with no regard for the consequences because after all they are always right. A pox on both your houses.

  12. Paul says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:04 pm  (Quote)

    Hey Doc, you got a shout-out on Miki “Miki Mouth” Booth’s FB page…

    Good Morning!
    I’ve got some good news and some bad news but the key is to stay vigilant. The FB hate site called “Orly’s World” has disappeared and the obot trolls like Cindy Gough Montgomery, Patrick J. Coliano, Squeeky Fromme, Kelly Lincoln, Kimberly Stone, Steven Feinstein, Laurie Vaughan, Daylon Brock (George D. Brock), are gone with it. That is the good news. But the bad news is that they have only gone underground while they regroup to figure out how to contain (damage control) MCSO Cold Case Posse’s findings. These vile obots (obummer robots) are all connected with premier hate site FOGBOW and DR. CONSPIRACY. They get their marching orders from these people and they WILL be coming after my FB friends. Alinsky Rules for Radicals #12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. “Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
    The obots will be back. If you get bullied – report it!]

  13. G says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:07 pm  (Quote)

    In interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

    Keith: Interesting article at Mother Jones by Chris Mooney: Diagnosing the Republican BrainDiscusses “Conservapedia”, anti-science, fact denial in general, voodoo economics, etc. from the point of view that he is talking to a liberal audience that simply doesn’t understand that these things exist.Then he asks why are Conservatives usually wrong and LIberals right? He describes one possible answer, but is unsatisfied with it. He goes on to describe He then points out that this means that the way Liberals traditionally’ try to educate Conservatives is never going to work.

  14. Mary Brown says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:12 pm  (Quote)

    The issue begins with a general attitude. The attitude of superiority. The attitude of “we have all the answers” . I have read it on this blog from one point of view and experience it in my daily life from the other. What I am addressing is a general attitude which makes it impossible for the owners to think outside their own viewpoint. Addressing specific issues won’t help until people are willing to listen to and quietly consider the views of others. The solution begins with listening. I know that sounds simplistic but it really is not. It is simple but difficult. I see no solution until that happens. I can speak with folks who believe the President is a Moslem or those who believe President Bush was dumb and evidence won’t matter because their minds are closed. The solution has a beginning and it is listening quietly and then testing beliefs.

  15. Thomas Brown says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:17 pm  (Quote)

    Bigfoot Search Requires Permit: Park Rangers
    31 SASQUATCH SEEKERS STOPPED IN ARKANSAS

    They ought to require a permit for Birthers.

  16. US Citizen says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:44 pm  (Quote)

    Hey folks!
    Like the Doc once said, I’m not happy.
    Just a few posts before, I was told that we’re all regrouping because we’ve been damaged by the cold case posse.
    Why couldn’t any of you obots tell me?
    I have to hear it from a birther??
    How embarrassing!
    I trusted you guys.
    And not only was I not told, but now Paul has shown that the birthers are reading Rules for Radicals.
    Damn!
    That was OUR book!
    They criticized us no end over it and now are following it themselves!
    No, I am not happy.

  17. G says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:47 pm  (Quote)

    I agree with you on the general principles you have stated. As any dialogue is a two-way conversation (or more), that requires both sides to be willing to both listen and present their case in a sincere manner.

    That breaks down as soon as one party barges into a room and begins a dialogue in bad faith. There is simply less tolerance towards listening to someone who isn’t coming to you with sincere intent of discussion in the first place.

    If you really have been reading here for a long time, you would realize that the regular community here includes a number of folks who are NOT Obama supporters in the least. Yet they are able to carry on respectful and adult dialogue, even on issues where there is very strong disagreement and difference in views with others on here. Likewise, they are treated in kind.

    It simply works like this – anyone coming here is a guest, visiting in Doc. C’s house and entering into the neighborhood in which the regular posters hang out. Coming here is a CHOICE. Anyone who does so can quickly ascertain what the purpose and philosophy of the area is.

    No one was “invited” to come here. They came into this territory on their own accord. If they have a sincere desire for discussion or questioning, then it is incumbent on them coming here to start off with offering a respectful dialogue and asking questions in good faith. Further, it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that they too can listen, by actually addressing counterpoints made in responses to them, instead of simply ignoring the evidence presented back to them and either simply reguritating the same talking points endlessly or cowardly shifting the goal posts instead of addressing the answers they were given in response to their OWN original issue.

    If one visits here and acts like nothing but a Troll or Concern Troll, they earn any bit of contempt they receive. They bring it on via their own actions.

    Again, while I agree with the general principle you have stated, I still find it it to be glib and smug in its own generality, which is fairly detatched from the real dynamics of how conversations arise and develop or devolve here. You are merely preaching and not practicing yourself….and that too is arrogance on your part.

    The focus on this website is evidence based thinking and being able to justify one’s rationale based on that. Those that can do that seem to do just fine here. Those that refuse are the arrogant ones and quickly earn folks souring on having any patience in paying attention to their obstinate petulance.

    Mary Brown: The issue begins with a general attitude. The attitude of superiority. The attitude of “we have all the answers” . I have read it on this blog from one point of view and experience it in my daily life from the other. What I am addressing is a general attitude which makes it impossible for the owners to think outside their own viewpoint. Addressing specific issues won’t help until people are willing to listen to and quietly consider the views of others. The solution begins with listening. I know that sounds simplistic but it really is not. It is simple but difficult. I see no solution until that happens. I can speak with folks who believe the President is a Moslem or those who believe President Bush was dumb and evidence won’t matter because their minds are closed. The solution has a beginning and it is listening quietly and then testing beliefs.

  18. Paul says:
    March 30, 2012 at 3:59 pm  (Quote)

    US Citizen:
    Hey folks!
    Like the Doc once said, I’m not happy.
    Just a few posts before, I was told that we’re all regrouping because we’ve been damaged by the cold case posse.
    Why couldn’t any of you obots tell me?
    I have to hear it from a birther??
    How embarrassing!
    I trusted you guys.
    And not only was I not told, but now Paul has shown that the birthers are reading Rules for Radicals.
    Damn!
    That was OUR book!
    They criticized us no end over it and now are following it themselves!
    No, I am not happy.

    …and I’m really angry that all my time here I have been unknowingly posting on a “premier hate site”!

  19. Thomas Brown says:
    March 30, 2012 at 4:11 pm  (Quote)

    Mary Brown:
    “…I can speak with folks who believe the President is a Moslem or those who believe President Bush was dumb andevidence won’t matter because their minds are closed.”

    I beg to differ.

    There is no evidence whatsoever that Obama is a Muslim, much less a “secret Muslim,” whatever the hell that is. There was evidence that Bush wasn’t real smart. He was what he had always been, a “C” student. But as someone once said, the world is run by “C” students.

    President Bush was not a real smart guy. President Obama is. So what? As Nixon and Carter showed us, very smart guys can make terrible Presidents.

    But that’s not really the issue with your comment. The issue is false equivalency, the idea that both sides are equally partly wrong and partly right.

    So, consider:

    As much as we disliked Bush’s administration, we never for a minute doubted that he loved his country. We thought him good-hearted but wrong about some things. A lot of things.

    Right-wingers accuse Obama of hating America daily, and call him the embodiment of evil.

    Liberals talked about trying to have Bush impeached.

    Right-wingers talk about having him tried for Treason and executed.

    See the difference?

  20. misha says:
    March 30, 2012 at 4:50 pm  (Quote)

    Mary Brown: A pox on both your houses.

    Smallpox has been eradicated.

    Mary Brown: The issue begins with a general attitude. The attitude of superiority. The attitude of “we have all the answers”

    I challenge you to name one time a progressive or ultra-liberal has walked into a room of conservatives, and opened fire. Conservatives of both parties voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. McCain voted against the King holiday. Conservatives are trying to destroy public education, and constantly use subterfuge to have creation taught in science classes.

    Let me give you one example that epitomizes the conservative story line: The welfare queen anecdote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

    “The term entered the American lexicon during Ronald Reagan’s 1976 presidential campaign when he described a “welfare queen” from Chicago’s South Side…Reagan would tell the story of a woman from Chicago’s South Side who was arrested for welfare fraud:

    “She has eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran’s benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.”

    In 1976, the New York Times reported that a woman from Chicago, Linda Taylor, was charged with using four aliases and of cheating the government out of $8,000. She appeared again in the newspaper while the Illinois Attorney General continued investigating her case. The woman was ultimately found guilty of “welfare fraud and perjury” in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois…”

    When I worked as an optician, one chain I worked for engaged in massive Medicaid fraud. They cheated the county of over $100K before they were caught. They signed a consent decree, and gave back $100K which was far less than they illegally took. Nothing else was meted out.

  21. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    March 30, 2012 at 4:56 pm  (Quote)

    For some reason, your Birthers of the world, unite! title doesn’t work well at Google translate. Not sure what the deal is.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I have added a Pravda link to the list of Birther websites

  22. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:15 pm  (Quote)

    Somebody had told me that that closed down. I never heard why.

    Paul: The FB hate site called “Orly’s World” has disappeared

  23. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:18 pm  (Quote)

    I did see somewhere that the Orly’s World group had closed down, but I didn’t know who was in it.

    Seriously, are you on the super secret Obot mailing list? It’s so exclusive and secret that even I don’t know about it.

    US Citizen: Why couldn’t any of you obots tell me?

  24. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:23 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    For some reason, your Birthers of the world, unite! title doesn’t work well at Google translate. Not sure what the deal is.

    It’s the cyrillic alphabet stuff from what i can tell that is causing problems. For some reason, google translate won’t translate between the alphabets for me, and I had to find a “seperate” switchy thingy.

    Plus, Orly’s World facebook is NOT shut down. I just posted there a minute ago. The owner decided to take it “secret” or “not open” or something because the Birthers were doing something or another. I will tell him that people here are curious, and maybe he can explain it better.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  25. thisoldhippie says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:25 pm  (Quote)

    Miki Booth doesn’t seem to like you:

    Miki Booth
    Good Morning!
    I’ve got some good news and some bad news but the key is to stay vigilant. The FB hate site called “Orly’s World” has disappeared and the obot trolls like Cindy Gough Montgomery, Patrick J. Coliano, Squeeky Fromme, Kelly Lincoln, Kimberly Stone, Steven Feinstein, Laurie Vaughan, Daylon Brock (George D. Brock), are gone with it. That is the good news. But the bad news is that they have only gone underground while they regroup to figure out how to contain (damage control) MCSO Cold Case Posse’s findings. These vile obots (obummer robots) are all connected with premier hate site FOGBOW and DR. CONSPIRACY. They get their marching orders from these people and they WILL be coming after my FB friends. Alinsky Rules for Radicals #12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. “Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
    The obots will be back. If you get bullied – report it!

  26. thisoldhippie says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:26 pm  (Quote)

    Please delete the names – I hit submit before I did that! Ugh!!

  27. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:44 pm  (Quote)

    thisoldhippie:

    No, Miki Mouth, aka Princess Miki does not like me one little bit. I don’t know why. I tried to tell her how to be a better book promoter, and I even psycho-analyzed her some and diagnosed PMS (Princess Miki Syndrome) for her. I wrote several Internet Articles, and here is one of them:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/the-princess-miki-syndrome/

    Maybe it stems from when I implied she was a “Space Cadet” in one of the earlier ones???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  28. JPotter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:51 pm  (Quote)

    thisoldhippie: Miki Booth doesn’t seem to like you:

    Thanks for posting that t.o.h.! The paranoia runs deep. Maybe if I try harder, i can make the list. Never encountered Miki, so far as I know. Not worth stooping to facebook for.

  29. Paul says:
    March 30, 2012 at 5:55 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Somebody had told me that that closed down. I never heard why.

    No no… not closed down AT ALL

  30. misha says:
    March 30, 2012 at 6:28 pm  (Quote)

    Is Barack Obama A Soviet Spy? (This is not from the Onion):
    http://www.westernjournalism.com/is-barack-obama-a-soviet-spy/

  31. G says:
    March 30, 2012 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    Well, from that particular article, I found your footnote reference to best sum up the whole question about Miki and many of the Birther Cult:

    In the opera, Lucia’s descent into insanity is more speedy and dramatic and very spectacular, while, in the book, it is a little bit mysterious and ambiguous

    So yeah, while much can be speculated on exactly when they fully lost it and while observations of different Birthers lead to different rates of descent, the cautionary tale from that opera holds true – in the end, they are simply starkly barking mad…

    Like you, I merely chuckle everytime I hear these paranoids proclaim that we are some “conspiracy” agents against them… as if they hold any actual import other than being mere cautionary tales…

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: thisoldhippie:No, Miki Mouth, aka Princess Miki does not like me one little bit. I don’t know why. I tried to tell her how to be a better book promoter, and I even psycho-analyzed her some and diagnosed PMS (Princess Miki Syndrome) for her. I wrote several Internet Articles, and here is one of them:http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/the-princess-miki-syndrome/Maybe it stems from when I implied she was a “Space Cadet” in one of the earlier ones???Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

  32. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 7:09 pm  (Quote)

    G:

    Plus, (and this is a big advantage for me) you don’t have to be a science major like you would if you were debunking Moon Landing Deniers or a math person if you were debunking Truthers and had to do all that long division stuff about stresses and weights and things.

    Birther debunking is really tailor-made for people who majored in arts and literature stuff.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  33. G says:
    March 30, 2012 at 8:01 pm  (Quote)

    I would argue that Birtherism is so ridiculous on its face that it is tailor-made for debunking by any sane and rational thinking person, regardless of their disciplinary pursuit.

    I can equally argue that the scientific logic method based processes instilled in those of us from those “math/science” degree disciplines also makes Birther debunking tailor-made for people like me as well…

    …But as someone who also has a arts/literature side to them, I certainly can agree and appreciate that your disciplines lend to a much more witty, entertaining and enjoyable format for conveying the debunking! 🙂

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: G:Plus, (and this is a big advantage for me) you don’t have to be a science major like you would if you were debunking Moon Landing Deniers or a math person if you were debunking Truthers and had to do all that long division stuff about stresses and weights and things.Birther debunking is really tailor-made for people who majored in arts and literature stuff.Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

  34. misha says:
    March 30, 2012 at 8:22 pm  (Quote)

    Mary Brown: The issue begins with a general attitude. The attitude of superiority.

    Progressives, or liberals, or whatever you want to call us do not pass laws deliberately meant to humiliate women.

    Read this: http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_RFU.pdf

    Progressives do not harass gay people. Progressives have never produced the equivalent of Roy Cohn or Andrew Breitbart, both of whom were shondes who made careers out of destroying the careers of others.

  35. This old Hippie says:
    March 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky- you’re right in that birtherism is very hard to debunk. My problem is that I work in the legal field and to see these people try to twist civil practice and procedure to fit their agenda is literally going to drive me insane. I’m in Georgia and what orly taitz tried to do here was degrading to our court system. I want her disbarred and if she were licensed here I think it would have already been done.

  36. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    March 30, 2012 at 9:44 pm  (Quote)

    ThisoldH:

    Mississippi may be the end of her legal career. And, doesn’t Mississippi still have female chain gangs???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  37. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    March 30, 2012 at 10:05 pm  (Quote)

    Lemme check Netflix.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: And, doesn’t Mississippi still have female chain gangs???

  38. jayhg says:
    March 30, 2012 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown said:

    “As much as we disliked Bush’s administration, we never for a minute doubted that he loved his country. We thought him good-hearted but wrong about some things. A lot of things.

    Right-wingers accuse Obama of hating America daily, and call him the embodiment of evil.

    Liberals talked about trying to have Bush impeached.

    Right-wingers talk about having him tried for Treason and executed.

    See the difference?

    No, Mary Brown won’t see the difference. After that initial rant and the first response, it probably embarassed her and she doubled down without addressing one thing in that first response to her post. So no, she won’t see the difference cause it sounds like she doesn’t want to. Watch…..

  39. aarrgghh says:
    March 31, 2012 at 4:21 am  (Quote)

    jayhg: Right-wingers accuse Obama of hating America daily, and call him the embodiment of evil.

    case in point:

    jeff head: “The truth is, [obama] should never have been President. He has done more to detroy our economy, or foreign policy, our defense forces, our moral standing, and our liberty than all the enemies of America in its entire history have been able to accomplish combined.”

    the truth is, if jeff is sincere in his hyperbole, then he really is beyond reasoning with. i doubt that our red blooded wingnut patriot recognizes the irony (or perhaps he does and deflects his anger onto obama) that every one of his charges has already been credibly and quantifiably leveled against obama’s now invisible predecessor, whose tumultuous tenure will be forever remembered for the greatest security apparatus catastrophe in history; self-justified war resulting in foreign quagmires and military depletion; self-justified kidnapping, torture and domestic surveillance; market collapses, record deficits and political scandal. obama’s tenure is not the only record wingnuts would wish away. george bush was truly a tough act to follow and we all can be thankful for that.

  40. Arthur says:
    March 31, 2012 at 10:33 pm  (Quote)

    For anyone who needs to be reminded of the extent to which the United States is committed to the use of violence, killing, and death, this pie chart will come in handy.

    http://crooksandliars.com/tina-dupuy/mid-day-open-thread-13#comments

    I haven’t fact-checked the statistics, so historians add corrections if necessary.

  41. Keith says:
    March 31, 2012 at 11:30 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Lemme check Netflix.

    Wait a minute, Doc. That was Pamela Greer, not Pamela Geller.

  42. Keith says:
    March 31, 2012 at 11:48 pm  (Quote)

    You would not believe the torturous route that I went through to remember Pamela Greer’s name. I couldn’t for the life of me remember it (they do say that if you can remember the 60’s you weren’t there), but I knew she had been in a number of exploitation films about chain gangs.

    First I googled “chain gang movies” and came up with “I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang” the true story of Robert E. Burns whose autobiography was made into a film in 1932 and is credited with the termination of chain gangs.

    Looking up Burns on Wikipedia, led me on to the Wikipedia discussion of Chain Gangs where we find this tidbit:

    This system existed primarily in the southern parts of the United States, and by 1955 had been phased out nationwide, with Georgia the last state to abandon the practice. Chain gangs were reintroduced by a few states during the “get tough on crime” 1990s, with Alabama being the first state to revive them in 1995. The experiment ended after about one year in all states except Arizona, where in Maricopa County inmates can still volunteer for a chain gang to earn credit toward a high school diploma or avoid disciplinary lockdowns for rule infractions.

    Moving on, I tried googling “genre movie women chain gang” and other similar search strings. I finally found a movie review for “Bikini Chain Gang”. Forgetting what I was looking for (I knew that wasn’t it), I decided to check out the review.

    Antisocial Commentary Episode 35 – Bikini Chain Gang. (don’t worry, its safe for work. more or less. but there is “language”) This time the torture I go through to thoroughly research my comments here bore fruit: there is a birtherish comment at about the 3:25 mark.

  43. G says:
    April 1, 2012 at 12:58 am  (Quote)

    Dang! So, only 21 years of *all* US history has not involved some sort of our nation fighting some sort of war… That is a depressing chart… if those peace-time years were a person, they would be old enough to drink…and would probably need to, knowing that statistic…

    Arthur: For anyone who needs to be reminded of the extent to which the United States is committed to the use of violence, killing, and death, this pie chart will come in handy. http://crooksandliars.com/tina-dupuy/mid-day-open-thread-13#commentsI haven’t fact-checked the statistics, so historians add corrections if necessary.

  45. Keith says:
    April 1, 2012 at 3:22 am  (Quote)

    Somebody please tell me that this is an April Fool’s joke:

    Arizona law would criminalize being lewd or annoying on the Internet

    The Arizona state legislature apparently finds it difficult to tell the difference between a telephone and the Internet and has passed a bill that would extend the definition of harassment originally devised for phone conversations to anything communicated or published online.

    As summarized by the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund, “The bill is sweepingly broad, and would make it a crime to communicate via electronic means speech that is intended to annoy,’ offend,’ ‘harass’ or terrify,’ as well as certain sexual speech. Because the bill is not limited to one-to-one communications, H.B. 2549 would apply to the Internet as a whole, thus criminalizing all manner of writing, cartoons, and other protected material the state finds offensive or annoying.”

  47. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    April 1, 2012 at 10:25 am  (Quote)

    Well, speaking of Constitutional Article II Experts, guess which one the White House just maneuvered out of the Birther Business???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/harvard-names-mario-apuzzo-esq-to-ezra-pound-chair-of-common-law/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  48. Majority Will says:
    April 1, 2012 at 10:30 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Well, speaking of Constitutional Article II Experts, guess which one the White House just maneuvered out of the Birther Business???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/harvard-names-mario-apuzzo-esq-to-ezra-pound-chair-of-common-law/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Nicely done. 😀

  49. Jim says:
    April 1, 2012 at 11:23 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Well, speaking of Constitutional Article II Experts, guess which one the White House just maneuvered out of the Birther Business???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/harvard-names-mario-apuzzo-esq-to-ezra-pound-chair-of-common-law/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    And see who the first comment is from? Some people just never learn!!! hehehe

  50. Majority Will says:
    April 1, 2012 at 11:28 am  (Quote)

    Jim: And see who the first comment is from?Some people just never learn!!!hehehe

    What a moron. And he’s becoming more apparent with the implied racism: “our Anglo-Saxon judiciary”.

  51. Arthur says:
    April 1, 2012 at 11:34 am  (Quote)

    Have you seen this recent video in which Rick Santorum, speaking of President Obama, says, “We know the candidate Barack Obama…what he was like. The anti-war, government nig… (insert stumble here).”

    http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/what-was-santorum-trying-say-about-oba

  52. G says:
    April 1, 2012 at 12:04 pm  (Quote)

    WOW… Oh my! That was quite a slip in that audio clip… I can’t come up with any other reasonable explanation for what he meant other than the N-word…

    Arthur: Have you seen this recent video in which Rick Santorum, speaking of President Obama, says, “We know the candidate Barack Obama…what he was like. The anti-war, government nig… (insert stumble here).” http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/what-was-santorum-trying-say-about-oba

  53. Arthur says:
    April 1, 2012 at 12:17 pm  (Quote)

    G: WOW… Oh my! That was quite a slip in that audio clip… I can’t come up with any other reasonable explanation for what he meant other than the N-word…

    He had a similar slip up during the Iowa primary when he said, “I don’t want to make bl . . . people’s lives better by giving them someone else’s money.” Sometimes when you’re tried and stressed, the truth comes out of your mouth before you can censor it.

  54. J. Potter says:
    April 1, 2012 at 1:00 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur: “We know the candidate Barack Obama…what he was like. The anti-war, government nig… (insert stumble here).”

    Rick Santorum replies to Rick Santorum: “It’s bullshi*t!”

  55. G says:
    April 1, 2012 at 1:13 pm  (Quote)

    Yeah, I remember that one. This new slip is several magnitudes worse…

    Arthur: He had a similar slip up during the Iowa primary when he said, “I don’t want to make bl . . . people’s lives better by giving them someone else’s money.” Sometimes when you’re tried and stressed, the truth comes out of your mouth before you can censor it.

  56. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    April 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm  (Quote)

    April Fools Day

    A Poem For Anti-Birthers and Obots
    by Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    The first day of April is special to us.
    The Birthers don’t see why we make such a fuss.
    It seems like the answer is perfectly clear.
    We only fib this one day of the year.

    The Birthers, they do it day in and day out,
    And the newness wore off. They got jaded no doubt.
    But to us, it’s like Christmas, so we hold it dear.
    We only fib this one day of the year.

    So the Birthers look on as we laugh and we play.
    They don’t understand. They look on in dismay.
    Their innocence lost forever I fear.
    But we only fib this one day of the year

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  57. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 1, 2012 at 7:42 pm  (Quote)

    Quote of the day. No contest.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: April Fools Day

    A Poem For Anti-Birthers and Obots
    by Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  58. Majority Will says:
    April 1, 2012 at 7:53 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    April Fools Day

    A Poem For Anti-Birthers and Obots
    by Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Bravo! 😀

  59. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    April 1, 2012 at 7:54 pm  (Quote)

    Thank you DrC!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  60. G says:
    April 1, 2012 at 9:24 pm  (Quote)

    Kudos! 🙂
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: April Fools DayA Poem For Anti-Birthers and Obotsby Squeeky FrommGirl ReporterThe first day of April is special to us.The Birthers don’t see why we make such a fuss.It seems like the answer is perfectly clear.We only fib this one day of the year.The Birthers, they do it day in and day out,And the newness wore off. They got jaded no doubt.But to us, it’s like Christmas, so we hold it dear.We only fib this one day of the year.So the Birthers look on as we laugh and we play.They don’t understand. They look on in dismay.Their innocence lost forever I fear.But we only fib this one day of the yearSqueeky FrommGirl Reporter

  61. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    April 1, 2012 at 11:07 pm  (Quote)

    G and Majority Will:

    Thank you!!! i figured I needed to do something since I put 3 big whopper fib posts up today. Although the one about the DOJ investigation of Taitz might not be such a whopper after all.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  62. Joe Acerbic says:
    April 1, 2012 at 11:23 pm  (Quote)

    About that April 1st and the birfoons… it’s pretty clear where this article is coming from but I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the comment here is totally earnest:

    http://www.hawaiireporter.com/atomic-monkey-did-governor-abercrombie-fake-obamas-birth-certificate/123/comment-page-1

  63. Thrifty says:
    April 2, 2012 at 3:46 pm  (Quote)

    So I’ve heard this thing about Intrade predicting a 60% chance that Obama will be re-elected and I’ve seen the Intrade page referring to it myself. I understand you can buy and sell shares on the likelihood this will happen. So um… how exactly does that work? I can’t figure out how.

  64. Scientist says:
    April 2, 2012 at 4:01 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty: So I’ve heard this thing about Intrade predicting a 60% chance that Obama will be re-elected and I’ve seen the Intrade page referring to it myself. I understand you can buy and sell shares on the likelihood this will happen. So um… how exactly does that work? I can’t figure out how.

    It’s a futures market structured like those on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange or the NYMEX. You buy a contract that pays off if Obama wins. Right now, a contract that would pay $100, will cost you $60, indicating that the market rates the odds of Obama winning at 60%. If you believe he will lose, you can short the contract, collecting $60 now and buying it back for $0 after the election (but if he wins it would cost you $100).

    In order to trade, you simply regiister on the site. You fund your account with a credit card or wire transfer and all winnings and losses go into the account. You can withdraw cash from the account as you wish.

  65. Dave says:
    April 2, 2012 at 4:18 pm  (Quote)

    Two things I’d add to this description of Intrade: the contracts are in units of $10, not $100; and there’s an account maintenance fee of $5 per month, but zero trading fees.

    I don’t trade at Intrade myself, so I may have this wrong.

  66. Thomas Brown says:
    April 2, 2012 at 4:33 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty:
    So I’ve heard this thing about Intrade… how exactly does that work?I can’t figure out how.

    Before the internet, there was a thing in Vegas called The Line. (Maybe still is, for all I know.) You could wager on any occurrence, if somebody else would bet against you. And they’d keep track of the bets and give the bettors adjusted odds. A great example is in the movie The Gauntlet, where The Line has their success at making it to the Courthouse alive at huge odds. They place a bet on themselves, so when they make it, they are not only alive but rich.

    One of my all-time favorites.

  67. Thrifty says:
    April 2, 2012 at 8:30 pm  (Quote)

    What the characters in The Gauntlet did makes sense. After all, if they lose, they’re dead. If they also happen to lose a bunch of money, that’s really not making the situation any worse.

    Thomas Brown: Before the internet, there was a thing in Vegas called The Line.(Maybe still is, for all I know.) You could wager on any occurrence, if somebody else would bet against you.And they’d keep track of the bets and give the bettors adjusted odds.A great example is in the movie The Gauntlet, where The Line has their success at making it to the Courthouse alive at huge odds.They place a bet on themselves, so when they make it, they are not only alive but rich.

    One of my all-time favorites.

  68. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 2, 2012 at 8:32 pm  (Quote)

    Someone named “Miri” writing at Sam Sewell’s blog, the Steady Drip has recycled the illegal passport access story from 2008 (some people peeked at Obama, Clinton and McCain’s passport records). I think some body died.

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2012/03/obama-passportgate-history.html

    The Clinton “hit list” was a big deal and the birthers are really late working on the Obama sequel.

    See also Squeeky’s article:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/jerome-corsi-a-farce-in-the-crowd/

  69. J. Potter says:
    April 2, 2012 at 9:19 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Someone named “Miri” writing at Sam Sewell’s blog, the Steady Drip has recycled the illegal passport access story from 2008 (some people peeked at Obama, Clinton and McCain’s passport records). I think some body died.

    Let’s see … w/o looking …. I predict it’s a lengthy spiel explaining how the “passport operation” was really only aimed at swapping / purging Obama’s passport files …. disturbance of other files was only a ruse meant to confuse investigation.

    Am I right? Am I right?

    Saw something else today on gulagbound.com about an assassination war between Hillary and Obama. That campaign has been over for 4 years* and is still heating up!

    ________

    * Rounded up a bit. Cut me some slack.

  70. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 2, 2012 at 10:14 pm  (Quote)

    For your reading pleasure:

    “The Presidential Qualification Clause in this Bicentennial Year: The Need to Eliminate the Natural Born Citizen Requirement” by J. Michael Medina, Oklahoma City University Law Review

    http://fdlaw.com/articles/The%20Presidential%20Qualification%20Clause%20in%20this%20Bicentennial%20Year.pdf

  71. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 2, 2012 at 10:19 pm  (Quote)

    I see Donald Trump is back on the conspiracy theory bandwagon. This time that vaccines cause autism.

    http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/donald-trumps-latest-paranoid-conspiracy-theory-vaccines-cause-autism/politics/2012/04/02/37461

  72. gorefan says:
    April 2, 2012 at 10:21 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: For your reading pleasure:

    His comment on the Minor decision is classic.

    “It is only clear that naturalized citizens are not natural born.” page 262

  73. Scientist says:
    April 2, 2012 at 10:31 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: I see Donald Trump is back on the conspiracy theory bandwagon. This time that vaccines cause autism.

    This is an even more harmful delusion than birtherism, because it can actually kill people. Perhaps we scientists ought to strike a deal with Trump: We will not build casinos or hotels as long as he stops dispensing scientific and medical advice.

  74. J. Potter says:
    April 2, 2012 at 11:32 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: For your reading pleasure:

    I’m seeing the birtherism … where’s the birtherism? Why does he cite WKA so much? It’s not binding! 😉

  75. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 3, 2012 at 1:31 am  (Quote)

    It looks like Orly has a new BFF friend in Monroe County Tennessee jail frequent flier, Walter Fitzpatrick III.

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=33944

  76. Paper says:
    April 3, 2012 at 6:37 am  (Quote)

    “The Rick Santorum campaign is essentially being run out of the blog comments on a birther website.”

    Rachel Maddow, show on April 2, 2012

  78. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 9:56 am  (Quote)

    Paper: “The Rick Santorum campaign is essentially being run out of the blog comments on a birther website.”

    Thanks, Paper … the cartoon train wreck continues….. no matter who wins, they’ll need one heck of a heavy, serious VP to bolster the ticket. Last time that was needed, we got Cheney to prop up W. That worked out well.

  79. Paper says:
    April 3, 2012 at 10:27 am  (Quote)

    Back in those early days of this century, I didn’t understand the”conspiracy” that was George Bush (did you know there is no bushconspiracy.org, shameful, shameful I must say) until I realized I had to factor in Cheney into my conspiracy algorithms.

    Side note: there is reference, band, radio, to The Bush League Conspiracy. Just FYI.

    JPotter: Thanks, Paper … the cartoon train wreck continues….. no matter who wins, they’ll need one heck of a heavy, serious VP to bolster the ticket. Last time that was needed, we got Cheney to prop up W. That worked out well.

  80. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 10:46 am  (Quote)

    Paper: Back in those early days of this century, I didn’t understand the”conspiracy” that was George Bush (did you know there is no bushconspiracy.org, shameful, shameful I must say) until I realized I had to factor in Cheney into my conspiracy algorithms.Side note: there is reference, band, radio, to The Bush League Conspiracy. Just FYI.

    Well, we won’t see a Cheney repeat, if only because we’re almost all out of Cheney.

    If Romney wins, I expect a bland, safe choice, no one that will outshine Romney … or help keeps Romney from being himself, from sinking himself.

    Santorum would need someone from the red establishment just to balance himself out, hopefully he would realize that and go with a relativle sane Republican.

    But now that there’s precedent for making really stupid VP picks, why not double down? Joel Osteen! Creflo Dollar! Or …. oh crap, did I say we were out of Cheney? … how about the Dark Lord of the End Times: John Hagee, the Evangelist of DOOM. That would fit his “Obama years = the Tribulation” ad campaign.

    Another interesting and unfortunate direction would be to double down on the young far right Red …. someone like Paul Ryan or Rand Paul.

  82. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 3, 2012 at 3:46 pm  (Quote)

    The original “born in Africa” was going around before anybody had any reason to believe it. This is the same, I think. Right wingers are trying to dodge claims of bias by saying Clinton was the first birther and now WND has some up with someone willing to lie about it.

    Birtherism always been a belief in search of evidence.

    Tomas Agent: I found this posted on board I read…

    http://www.exposeobama.com/2012/04/02/video-clinton-insider-bill-clinton-is-a-birther/

  83. G says:
    April 3, 2012 at 4:11 pm  (Quote)

    Nothing new here either.

    That particular director has LONG been a PUMA Birther. All that is going on here is that the other Birther sites are acting again as an echo chamber, because WND decided to re-trot out this zombie meme yet again.

    That seems to be the constant Birther MO – lie, rinse, repeat. When one strand of spaghetti thrown against the wall falls on the floor, just throw another…. but wait a few months and then pick up the fallen strands and throw them against the wall again…and again…and again…

    Tomas Agent: I found this posted on board I read…http://www.exposeobama.com/2012/04/02/video-clinton-insider-bill-clinton-is-a-birther/

  84. clestes says:
    April 3, 2012 at 5:50 pm  (Quote)

    Republicans were not always so out in space. My idea of the current state of republican affairs is the result of their not updating their voting strategies since Nixon plus we are witnessing the real end of the Civil War.

    The southern strategy worked for them during the 1970’s and then they had the luck to have Reagan, one of the most personable presidents evah, even if he was a liar and crook. HW Bush rode in on Reagan’s coat tails, but couldn’t manage re-election.

    So along comes Bill Clinton. During all these decades from 1970 on the Latino, Black, Asian numbers were rising and the white numbers were falling. It was reconized 20 years ago that whites would be a minority in the future. People just didn’t believe it. Or thought they wouldn’t live to see it. During the time of the 1970’s and 1980’s social issues were more important, but one started to see under Clinton that they were losing their power. Republicans didn’t know what to do, so they doubled down on what had always worked before, although it was clear their strategy was out of date.

    Then came Dubya. We all know how he got in office, so i won’t rehash that tale. Rove was a protege of Lee Atwater and used the same southern strategy along with the post 9-11 hysteria to get Dubya re-elected in 2004 in the closest re-election in our history. Rove was also no fool and tried very hard to get the Latino vote corraled for the republicans, but he had a serious problem. In order to keep Dubya in office, he had had to appeal to the lowest, most ignorant, most socially conservative people of the country. But, without 9-11 I doubt Dubya would have been re-elected.

    Now it has been known for 50 years that republican economic policies are bad for the economy. Under every republican president job creation sinks, the stock market sinks and the economy sinks. Republicans SUCK at running any government. They are slaves to the rich. Their policies benefit the rich. However, they are very good at lying, plus we had the rise of the Murdoch empire and FauxNews which was just a propaganda arm of the republican party. It was due to Fox that American was sold the whole WMD bill of goods. Republicans also like to perputuate the myth they are better at protecting the country.

    Republicans finally got what they had always wanted. Total control of the Whitehouse and congress and they went wild. Dubya was so stupid and so easily manipulated that he was talked into starting 2 wars, passing a prescription drug plan and slashing taxes. It took only about 5 or 6 years before the economy that had been functioning perfectly well under Clinton to go bankrupt. Meanwhile, the birth rate of minorities continued to soar and the birth rates of white continued to sink.

    Then comes 2006 and 2008. In back to back elections the US people rejected republican policies and elected a man part African and part white. That was the biggest shock to the south since losing the Civil War and the passing of the Civil Rights Acts of the 1960’s.

    What is the republican response? They can’t run on their economic policies, they resulted in the Great Recession. They can’t run on keeping American safe, Dubya let Osama Bin Laden escape, President Obama had him killed.

    Republicans are in panic mode. In order to try and regain power republicans have had to continue to appeal the lowest, most ignorant, most conservative voters in America. But it isn’t working this time.

    Just look at their presidential candidates. Starting with Dubya, they have had the most unqualified bozo’s in 50 years. The only demographic they have is the one that is shrinking in number. Uneducated, white, male, over 50, southerners and evangelicas.That demographic is shrinking faster than the ozone layer.

    Meanwhile, the democrats are appealing to every growing demographic. Minorities, espcially Latinos (who saved the senate for them in 2010), youth (Milleniums the most open minded generation ever), college educated, women of all races.

    I mean, republicans have nothing to run on. Ryan’s plan is a disaster and Romney will be forced to support it. All this birther nonsense makes them look like fools, which they are. Murcdoch is in serious trouble in Britain and that could easily come home to roost in the US.

    I think that not only will the president be re-elected, but there is a decent chance to take the house and a good chance to keep the senate.

    Sorry for the length, but there was a lot to cover.

  85. Keith says:
    April 3, 2012 at 7:45 pm  (Quote)

    JPotter: no matter who wins, they’ll need one heck of a heavy, serious VP to bolster the ticket.

    Jan Brewer?

  86. Thrifty says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:10 pm  (Quote)

    Really? Republicans are panicking and their strategies aren’t working? Is that why they gained seats in the House and Senate?

    clestes: Republicans are in panic mode. In order to try and regain power republicans have had to continue to appeal the lowest, most ignorant, most conservative voters in America. But it isn’t working this time.

  87. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:21 pm  (Quote)

    clestes: Republicans were not always so out in space.

    Indeed not! No matter what you thought of guys like Goldwater, N. Rockefeller, Ford, etc., they are infinitely preferable to the current crop. Since WWII (WWI?), the party has been diving deeper and deeper into fear and denialism. Attempting to stop all change by stopping time, metatasizing from being merely conservative to being constipated. In doing so, abdicating all its responsibilities.

    It’s a great party gone bad. Bull Moose, anyone? 😉

    clestes: Sorry for the length, but there was a lot to cover.

    Effort appreciated!

  88. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:22 pm  (Quote)

    Keith: Jan Brewer?

    LOL! Her campaign photo is ready and waiting! “A woman not afraid to stand up to Barack Obama ….” Heh.

  89. misha says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:23 pm  (Quote)

    clestes: Republicans were not always so out in space.

    Nelson Rockefeller. Four consecutive NY governor terms. The State University system. The NYS Thruway, which became the Interstate model. Appointed Ford’s VP. When I turned 18, I cast my first vote for Rockefeller, not Arthur Goldberg. Keith Ellison, a Muslim convert, got the Jewish vote.

    clestes: What is the republican response? They can’t run on their economic policies, they resulted in the Great Recession.

    Conservatives are always screaming about the deficit. When Shrub walked through the door, there was a $212M surplus. When Obama walked through the door, there was a $1T deficit. That has ballooned, because Shrub was running Iraq and ‘Stan off the books as the Black Budget. Obama is including them in the general budget, so people know the true costs of both wars, and has delivered the transparency he promised.

    No matter to conservatives: they still accuse Obama of making the deficit worse. Newt Pillsbury Doughboy McPherson Gingrich goes around saying if he were elected, gasoline would be $2.50/gallon. Bishop Willard Mitt Romney has accused Obama of not doing anything about gasoline prices. If Obama did, they would then accuse him as a socialist tampering with the free market.

    The GOP has sunk to tribalism of the lowest common denominator.

  90. Keith says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:24 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty:
    Really?Republicans are panicking and their strategies aren’t working?Is that why they gained seats in the House and Senate?

    That is not a useful measuring stick.

    Franklyn Delano Roosevelt is, I believe, the most recent President to have actually gained seats in a mid term election (I may have missed one, I don’t have the numbers at my finger tips right now).

    It is almost ‘traditional’ for the President’s party to lose seats in the mid-terms.

  91. Keith says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:30 pm  (Quote)

    OK, I’m wrong. Clinton picked up House seats in his second term and Bush picked up both house and Senate seats in his first.

    Nixon and Kennedy picked up a Senator or two.

    FDR picked up seats in both House and Senate his first term.

    No other President has won the midterms since at least 1910.

    (from Wikipedia)

  92. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:34 pm  (Quote)

    Wikipedia also has a great history of the Republican Party, very colorful.

  93. misha says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:37 pm  (Quote)

    JPotter: Bull Moose, anyone?

    To readers: please do not be offended by what I have written below. That was the accepted term at the time.

    Teddy Roosevelt, for whom the teddy bear is named, once invited Booker T. Washington to the White House for dinner. Washington wanted to discuss “the plight of negroes.”

    A group of southern senators went to see Roosevelt afterwards, and read him the riot act about inviting Washington, or any negroes. Roosevelt was so chastened, he never did it again.

  94. Thrifty says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:49 pm  (Quote)

    I’ll admit that I may be jumping to conclusions. You’re right about a presidential party usually losing seats in their first mid-term election. The economy being in such poor shape in 2010 probably didn’t help the incumbent Democrats. Not to mention the emergence of the Tea Party and the traditionally lower voter turnout in midterms. Still, I’m skeptical of any claims that the Republican party is on the decline. I’m gonna need to see Democrats make gains in a few more election cycles to be convinced.

    Keith: That is not a useful measuring stick.

  95. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 8:54 pm  (Quote)

    misha: Roosevelt was so chastened, he never did it again.

    Oh, there’s worse, check out “The Brownsville Incident”.

    I mentioned Bull Moose to indicate how far back I had to think to find a time when the Republicans weren’t the regressive party.

    Looking up your anecdote, I came across a gold mine of vintage politcal cartoons. This one fits this blog well:

    http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/images/masters/toons/mastercartoons/mastercartoon268post.gif

  96. Thrifty says:
    April 3, 2012 at 9:03 pm  (Quote)

    But I guess in addition to my previous point, is there any evidence beyond wishful thinking that the Republican party is on the decline? You can explain away their 2010 gains and give reasonable doubt to the claim that they’re gaining power. You can point to their increasingly extreme ideology. Still, neither of those things, in my opinion, makes a convincing case that they’re declining in power.

  97. JPotter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 9:24 pm  (Quote)

    Here’s one for birthers and Santorum … a thought that hits on their dearest concerns:

    Theodore Roosevelt : “Race Suicide” Controversy

    In a speech titled “On American Motherhood”, President Roosevelt expressed his fear of rising white American infertility and stated that to use birth control or fail to keep up with the birth rate of ethnic minorities was to risk suicide. The pressure was thus placed on Anglo-Saxon women to continue to procreate, and the use of birth control was constructed as contrary to nationalism. (from The Quinnley Stand, 1907(?)).

    http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/toonsbytopicracesuicide.html

    A paper on the term ‘race suicide’, which arose from the eugenics movement:
    http://www.princeton.edu/~tleonard/papers/retrospectives.pdf
    (Proceed with caution, challenging subject matter.)

  98. Majority Will says:
    April 3, 2012 at 10:50 pm  (Quote)

    Fox News host tweets birther murder fantasy

    (excerpt) The anchor, Heather Childers, sent out a tweet, quickly discovered by the mediamatters.org watchdog site, which closely scrutinizes Fox’s distortions, conflicts of interest, half-truths and inaccuracies. The tweet asked:

    “Thoughts? Did Obama campaign threaten Chelsea Clinton’s Life 2 Keep Parents Silent?”

    The tweet was linked to godfatherpolitics.com, a right-wing web site peddling a conspiracy about the Obama campaign murdering and threatening murder to hide secrets about Obama’s eligibility to run for President.

    (http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2012/04/03/fox-news-host-tweets-birther-murder-fantasy/)

  99. J. Potter says:
    April 3, 2012 at 11:49 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Fox News host tweets birther murder fantasy

    “she understands there was a mistake” ….! 😀

  100. Thomas Brown says:
    April 4, 2012 at 12:22 am  (Quote)

    Thrifty:
    But I guess in addition to my previous point, is there any evidence beyond wishful thinking that the Republican party is on the decline?You can explain away their 2010 gains and give reasonable doubt to the claim that they’re gaining power.You can point to their increasingly extreme ideology.Still, neither of those things, in my opinion, makes a convincing case that they’re declining in power.

    See Majority Will’s comment above. The only reason today’s Republican Party is doing as well as it is is because it is being floated on a barge of lies.

    Death Panels. Sharia Law. The practically uncountable lies about Obama. Voter fraud. The “Global Warming is a hoax” hoax. Immunizations cause autism. Discrimination against white people is the worst form of racism today. Christians are being persecuted. Obama is going to revoke the second Amendment. The poor have it too easy. Everyone who wants health insurance can get it. Bush deserves no blame for 9/11 and Obama deserves no credit for killing bin Laden. Gays want to convert your kids. Medicaid is Socialism but Corporate Welfare isn’t. It was a mistake to bail out the auto and banking industries; we should have let them fail. If female soldiers get raped, what do they expect? Bill Ayers was the most evil American terrorist, not Timothy McVeigh. If you use birth control you’re a slut. A loving gay couple is an abomination but pedophile Priests are a minor Chuch matter. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Democrats want to punish success and reward failure. But that doesn’t count when it’s a CEO getting a bonus after crashing the business. Greed is admirable in the Boardroom but loathesome in the Union Hall. Education makes one a liberal elitist. Oil and gas subsidies at taxpayer expense is good business, but subsidies for alternative clean energy is pork. Tax cuts produce prosperity; well, even if they haven’t, they should. Liberals are trying to destroy America. No one dies from lack of affordable health care. The Stimulus didn’t work. The environment is over-protected. Protesting against Bush in wartime was anti-American, but shouting “You lie!” at Obama during the same war was OK. Unproductive Abstinence-Only sex education is great, but effective tolerance education and anti-bullying programs are the Nanny State. Nothing should be done about childhood obesity. Light-bulb and gas mileage efficiency standards are government intrusion. “Happy Holidays” equals a War on Christmas. Corporations will protect the public if Government would just give them free rein. The poor are all lazy criminals. America is a Christian nation. Republicans produce everything and Democrats are just sponging off of them. Only Fox News tells the truth; you can’t trust any other sources. Environmental groups have more money than the oil industry. Pharmaceutical companies charging Americans 2-10x as much as other countries for the same drug is really in our best interest.

    There’s more but I gotta get some sleep.

  101. bovril says:
    April 4, 2012 at 8:42 am  (Quote)

    The problem for the Republican party currently is that they are pandering to a ever shrinking demographic. Shrinking in that the “base” is basically getting old and dying….

    There is not only no active attempts to appeal and recruit the young, the non white, the educated, the poor etc, their practice actively discourage these potential voters.

    This shrinkage is being masked to a degree as this shrinking constituency is a frequent and regular voter. They have the time, they are not infrequently retired and fear any change so are easy to rile up in get out the vote campaigns.

  102. G says:
    April 4, 2012 at 9:39 am  (Quote)

    Agreed. Plus they really have the media power these days (Fox News, right wing radio, evangelical churches, etc.), so their memes are artificially propped up beyond their actual representative proportions. But even that will become increasingly difficult to maintain in the face of long-term demographic changes. That is why we see so many voter suppression attempts at the state level.

    bovril: The problem for the Republican party currently is that they are pandering to a ever shrinking demographic. Shrinking in that the “base” is basically getting old and dying….There is not only no active attempts to appeal and recruit the young, the non white, the educated, the poor etc, their practice actively discourage these potential voters.This shrinkage is being masked to a degree as this shrinking constituency is a frequent and regular voter. They have the time, they are not infrequently retired and fear any change so are easy to rile up in get out the vote campaigns.

  103. Lupin says:
    April 4, 2012 at 10:12 am  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: See Majority Will’s comment above.The only reason today’s Republican Party is doing as well as it is is because it is being floated on a barge of lies.

    Death Panels. Sharia Law. The practically uncountable lies about Obama. Voter fraud. The “Global Warming is a hoax” hoax.Immunizations cause autism. Discrimination against white people is the worst form of racism today. Christians are being persecuted.Obama is going to revoke the second Amendment.The poor have it too easy.Everyone who wants health insurance can get it. Bush deserves no blame for 9/11 and Obama deserves no credit for killing bin Laden. Gays want to convert your kids. Medicaid is Socialism but Corporate Welfare isn’t.It was a mistake to bail out the auto and banking industries; we should have let them fail.If female soldiers get raped, what do they expect?Bill Ayers was the most evil American terrorist, not Timothy McVeigh. If you use birth control you’re a slut. A loving gay couple is an abomination but pedophile Priests are a minor Chuch matter. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Democrats want to punish success and reward failure. But that doesn’t count when it’s a CEO getting a bonus after crashing the business. Greed is admirable in the Boardroom but loathesome in the Union Hall. Education makes one a liberal elitist. Oil and gas subsidies at taxpayer expense is good business, but subsidies for alternative clean energy is pork. Tax cuts produce prosperity; well, even if they haven’t, they should. Liberals are trying to destroy America. No one dies from lack of affordable health care. The Stimulus didn’t work. The environment is over-protected. Protesting against Bush in wartime was anti-American, but shouting “You lie!” at Obama during the same war was OK. Unproductive Abstinence-Only sex education is great, but effective tolerance education and anti-bullying programs are the Nanny State. Nothing should be done about childhood obesity. Light-bulb and gas mileage efficiency standards are government intrusion. “Happy Holidays” equals a War on Christmas. Corporations will protect the public if Government would just give them free rein. The poor are all lazy criminals. America is a Christian nation. Republicans produce everything and Democrats are just sponging off of them. Only Fox News tells the truth; you can’t trust any other sources.Environmental groups have more money than the oil industry. Pharmaceutical companies charging Americans 2-10x as much as other countries for the same drug is really in our best interest.

    There’s more but I gotta get some sleep.

    Let’s not forget my favorite: France is the Source of All Evil — sort of like Mordor, if right wing nuts actually read LOTR.

  104. Lupin says:
    April 4, 2012 at 10:15 am  (Quote)

    They actually have a website:

    http://www.godhatestheworld.com/france/filthymanneroflife.html

    Oh dear! I have the vapors. Pass me the salts.

  105. Thomas Brown says:
    April 4, 2012 at 10:48 am  (Quote)

    Lupin:
    They actually have a website:

    http://www.godhatestheworld.com/france/filthymanneroflife.html

    Oh dear! I have the vapors. Pass me the salts.

    It must have been especially galling to them when it turned out France was right about Saddam having nothing to do with 9/11 and no WMDs.

  106. JPotter says:
    April 4, 2012 at 11:01 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: Let’s not forget my favorite: France is the Source of All Evil — sort of like Mordor, if right wing nuts actually read LOTR.

    France is Rohan, Germany is Mordor. Everyone knows that. 😉

    Sorry, Germany, it was a long time ago. We’re all cool now.

  107. Lupin says:
    April 4, 2012 at 11:11 am  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: It must have been especially galling to them when it turned out France was right about Saddam having nothing to do with 9/11 and no WMDs.

    Well to be fair, I think everyone on the know knew that — didn’t Wolfowitz in a rare moment of candor admit in an interview somewhere in Asia that it was just an argument used to sell the war? There were a gazillion of good people in the US that realized that as well.

    The infuriating thing is that there’s been no reckoning for those who were wrong, as opposed to those who were right all along. At least, after WWII, we purged our media of Vichy sympathizers. In a normal world, Tom Friedman and many others like him should be unemployed, living in the gutter.

  108. Lupin says:
    April 4, 2012 at 11:12 am  (Quote)

    JPotter: France is Rohan, Germany is Mordor. Everyone knows that. 😉

    I can live with that! 🙂

  109. JPotter says:
    April 4, 2012 at 11:24 am  (Quote)

    Or, there is the more conspiratorial interpretation …. France is Rohan … Germany is Mirkwood and lands further east … and Mordor is …. Italy! The Pope is the Dark Lord! The Fishermen’s Ring is the One Ring!

    *gasp* *shock* *horror*

    Being nutty is too easy. Reality is a more worthy opponent.

  110. The Magic M says:
    April 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm  (Quote)

    JPotter: France is Rohan, Germany is Mordor. Everyone knows that.

    Sorry, Germany, it was a long time ago. We’re all cool now.

    After all, we did have a wall. 😉

    Which East Germany always explained as keeping evil out, not their citizens in. “Antifaschistischer Schutzwall” (anti-fascist protective barrier) was their wording.

    But what’s the Shire? Ireland? Switzerland? *lol*

  111. RuhRoh says:
    April 4, 2012 at 12:40 pm  (Quote)

    Corsi isn’t even pretending that he’s not a bigot any longer. At a speech in Morristown NJ last night, he actually said “The noose is tightening for Obama.” http://morristown.patch.com/articles/author-revives-birther-theory-in-morristown

  112. JPotter says:
    April 4, 2012 at 2:09 pm  (Quote)

    RuhRoh: Corsi isn’t even pretending that he’s not a bigot any longer. At a speech in Morristown NJ last night, he actually said “The noose is tightening for Obama.” http://morristown.patch.com/articles/author-revives-birther-theory-in-morristown

    Hmmm…. Zullo is from …. New Jersey … a speech at a Masonic Lodge? That should set the conspiracy nuts off.

  113. Arthur says:
    April 4, 2012 at 3:34 pm  (Quote)

    For what it’s worth, the Georgia Supreme Court has denied without comment, the Somebody v Obama ballot challenge appeal. I couldn’t remember exactly which dumbass had filed this appeal, and really, who cares. Over at ORYR, though, the sky is falling–for the 129th time.

  114. clestes says:
    April 4, 2012 at 4:16 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty,

    yes actually there are several indicators of republcians losing power. Look at the polls. You might claim that polls don’t matter, but they do. At this stage poll after poll across all spectrums show republican presidential candidates losing to the president by double digits.

    Look at the percent of Americans declaring themselves republican. 22% or so. That is the lowest on record.

    Look at approval ratings. Republican house have the worse approval rating on record. What, less than 10%.

    Look at approval ratings of Hispanics, 33% approve, 67% disapprove

    Look at accomplishments. Zip

    Look at the retirement of Olympia Snowe.

    Read Arlen Spector.

    Look at the loss of support among women in the last 6 weeks. It has dropped more than 20 points.

    I realize that your head is in some dark place, so you aren’t seeing the trends, but those of us paying attention do.

    Republicans are in trouble, big trouble and anyone who looks at what is happening now realizes it. Keep with your fantasy that the south can get you 270 EC votes but it won’t happen. Adding Rubio won’t do a damn thing to help out either.

    The republcian economic platform is poisen, their immigration plan is poisen. They have nothing positive they can point to that they have accomplished.

    But keep dreaming.

  115. clestes says:
    April 4, 2012 at 4:29 pm  (Quote)

    thrifty,

    The president is going to win re-election. Romney has no hope of beating him. Romney has alienated women, Hispanics, youth. Look at every one of those demographics and the approval rating of the republcian party.

    do the math. Stop believing what Fox says and go out and look at independent research sites.

    There are going to be 2 final nails in the republican coffin this year. The DREAM act and the Ryan budget. Both of those are going to KILL whatever chance they had.

  116. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm  (Quote)

    If this site covered the presidential election, there would certainly be a lot to make fun of.

  117. Thrifty says:
    April 4, 2012 at 9:43 pm  (Quote)

    Clestes,

    I don’t know if I mentioned it, but I’m a registered Democrat and ardent supporter of Barack Obama. I voted for him in 2008 and will again this year. I never watch Fox News (or CNN or MSNBC or any other cable news channel for that matter; I get most of my news from Yahoo News or CNN Online).

    I just think this idea that the Republicans are losing power is not as obvious and incontrovertibly true as some people say. It feels more like misguided optimism. It’s one thing, though, to say that the Republicans are going too far. It’s another thing entirely to say that they’re losing power. For that to happen, the Democrats need to step up their game and learn to present the kind of unified message Republicans do.

  118. J. Potter says:
    April 4, 2012 at 10:04 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty: For that to happen, the Democrats need to step up their game and learn to present the kind of unified message Republicans do.

    Amen, Brother Thrifty! It’d be great to see a party promote a philosophy, an ideal, rather than getting tied down in details. Stay above the stupid by focusing long-term. Engaging the opposition on their level results in gridlock, distraction, division, etc. Eye on the ball. Obama’s best trait is his insistence on the long game. But where’s the vision for the people? Hope to see it in this campaign.

  119. misha says:
    April 4, 2012 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty: I’m a registered Democrat and ardent supporter of Barack Obama. I voted for him in 2008 and will again this year.

    This was in the New York Times: In Poll, Jewish Voters Overwhelmingly Support Obama – Read on:
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/in-poll-jewish-voters-overwhelmingly-support-obama/

    My comment is there, but this is my favorite: “What? You mean they don’t appreciate the fact that the GOP supports Israel only as cannon fodder for the Apocalypse?”

    This election is about the 1st Amendment, reproductive freedom and science. There is not one GOP candidate who unequivocally supports seperation of church and state. I’m not trading all of that for Israel. The GOP platform is odious.

  120. J. Potter says:
    April 5, 2012 at 12:39 am  (Quote)

    WND has done something useful: compiled a big list of birfs!
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/the-big-list-of-eligibility-proofers/

    They list a few more than once…all your favorites are here. And the typical lineup of comments*

    Here’s a new classic:

    Colony14

    Add:

    Jack Cashill, author of “Deconstructing Obama,”
    Don Fredrick, author of “The Obama Timeline,”
    and attorneys Mario Apuzzo, Leo Donofrio, Orly Taitz (and all their plaintiffs).

    Silly colony14! This is: “…a compilation of … high-profile personalities and leaders who have raised questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility…” … and why would WND mention their competition for birfer bucks?

    __________

    * Orwell was way too optimistic in calling it the 2-Minutes Hate!

  121. Thrifty says:
    April 5, 2012 at 11:08 am  (Quote)

    Hey man, I’m with ya on that. But like I keep saying, there’s a vast difference between “the GOP has a platform that I find repugnant” and “the GOP has a platform that so many people find repugnant that they can’t sustain their level of power”. I find that it’s the same broken thinking that Birthers get into where they believe that because the birth certificate issue is important to them, it’s important to everyone.

    And I hate to dump on my fellow Democrats, but we’re not going to beat the Republicans by scoffing and saying “they stink, everyone should see that”. We need to send the message “they stink, we are the better choice, here’s why”. I see on the part of Democrats too much of the former and not enough of the latter. That and the unity of the GOP (the current rancorous fight for the presidential nomination being a big exception) convince me that a decline of the GOP just isn’t happening.

    misha: This was in the New York Times: In Poll, Jewish Voters Overwhelmingly Support Obama – Read on:
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/in-poll-jewish-voters-overwhelmingly-support-obama/

    My comment is there, but this is my favorite: “What? You mean they don’t appreciate the fact that the GOP supports Israel only as cannon fodder for the Apocalypse?”

    This election is about the 1st Amendment, reproductive freedom and science. There is not one GOP candidate who unequivocally supports seperation of church and state. I’m not trading all of that for Israel. The GOP platform is odious.

  122. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 5, 2012 at 3:16 pm  (Quote)

    The Doc gives a wave on Lupin’s general direction and gets back on the plane in Paris.

  123. Sef says:
    April 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown:
    Bigfoot Search Requires Permit: Park Rangers
    31 SASQUATCH SEEKERS STOPPED IN ARKANSAS

    They ought to require a permit for Birthers.

    What about snipe hunting?

  124. nbc says:
    April 5, 2012 at 8:50 pm  (Quote)

    Apuzzo files Ballot challenge in New Jersey…

    He does like to lose…

  125. nbc says:
    April 5, 2012 at 9:18 pm  (Quote)

    I believe it will fail because the challenge can only involve statutory requirements in N.J.S.A. Title 19 which as far as I can tell does not include eligibility requirements for the president. In other words, any such challenge that focuses on Obama’s natural born status, may be doomed to fail.

    Bummer…

  126. Majority Will says:
    April 5, 2012 at 9:27 pm  (Quote)

    nbc:
    I believe it will fail because the challenge can only involve statutory requirements in N.J.S.A. Title 19 which as far as I can tell does not include eligibility requirements for the president. In other words, any such challenge that focuses on Obama’s natural born status, may be doomed to fail.

    Bummer…

    Or it will fail because he’s a putz with more spare time than sense.

  127. nbc says:
    April 5, 2012 at 9:29 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Or it will fail because he’s a putz with more spare time than sense.

    Well, he may be able to follow the straightforward rules but I doubt that his musings on what is natural-born will have any relevance to the ballot challenge. With a bit of luck, they may even rule that by any legal standard, President Obama is of course a natural born citizen and that Minor does not hold.

    But that would just be icing on the cake…

  128. gorefan says:
    April 5, 2012 at 10:20 pm  (Quote)

    New Jersey Assembleman Anthony Bucco takes a walk on the birther side.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/obama-birth-certificate-anthony-bucco-new-jersey-jerome-corsi_n_1406608.html

    He calls on a higher authority to examine the President’s BC. How about the state of Hawaii?

  129. nbc says:
    April 5, 2012 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: He calls on a higher authority to examine the President’s BC. How about the state of Hawaii?

    He appears to be a bit confused as to what Corsi really presented… Fool

  130. Dave says:
    April 5, 2012 at 11:56 pm  (Quote)

    Breaking story at WND clone WCJ: Rep. Jeff Flake said anti-birther things. WCJ is outraged.

    Rep. Flake is a leading contender for Sen. Kyl’s seat (who is retiring). This seat is a possible Dem pickup. It’s conceivable that birthers throwing rocks at Flake could tilt this election, and the Senate, a bit toward the Democrats.

  131. J. Potter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:01 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: He calls on a higher authority to examine the President’s BC. How about the state of Hawaii?

    A higher authority? Hasn’t he heard? Jesus don’t birf!

  132. J. Potter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:05 am  (Quote)

    Dave: Rep. Jeff Flake said anti-birther things. WCJ is outraged.

    Thanks for that tip, Dave! Priceless comment stream on that one! The suggestion to use social media is also a crackup. As if their readers need reminding to wipe themselves.

  133. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: New Jersey Assembleman Anthony Bucco takes a walk on the birther side. He calls on a higher authority to examine the President’s BC. How about the state of Hawaii?

    “He calls on a higher authority” The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

  134. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:25 am  (Quote)

    J. Potter: Hasn’t he heard? Jesus don’t birf!

    Jesus saves, but Moses invests.

  135. J. Potter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 2:08 am  (Quote)

    So if Mary was an American citizen*, and Yahweh was The Father, Lord & Master of All Creation, then Christ is royalty, a dual citizen, and short a citizen parent!

    Those dirty Vattelists are telling me Jesus isn’t good enough for them!

    ________

    * Of course the Virgin Mary is an American citizen! She’s the first citizen and mother of all who came after her! You do love the Virgin Mary, don’t you?!?

  136. The Magic M says:
    April 6, 2012 at 3:20 am  (Quote)

    misha: “He calls on a higher authority” The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    His Noodly Appendage does not approve of this “birther” thingy.

  137. Thomas Brown says:
    April 6, 2012 at 7:58 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M: His Noodly Appendage does not approve of this “birther” thingy.

    And, to state the obvious, all would be well if we just had more Pirates.

  138. Majority Will says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:19 am  (Quote)

    I am standing in front of the Jefferson Bible. Interesting.

  139. JPotter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:58 am  (Quote)

    In another confirmation that birtherism is w/o substance, despite a recent upsurge in sales thanks to a celebrity endorsement by Arpaio and yet another Corsi barnstomin’ tour, Amazon is offering a whoping 18 in credit for your copy of WTBC?. The books sells new there for $17. 98.9% instant depreciation. Whatever you do, don’t drive it off the lot!

  140. RuhRoh says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:35 pm  (Quote)

    Would there be any entertainment value to attending the Apuzzo/Purpura/Moran hearing in Trenton next week? Or is it likely to simply be dismissed with about three sentences from the ALJ? I’m assuming the latter, but IANAL.

  141. RuhRoh says:
    April 6, 2012 at 12:37 pm  (Quote)

    The Phoenix New Times is running a photo caption contest for a picture of Shurruf Joe speaking to a church last weekend. I think several folks here would have an excellent chance of winning the contest! http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/joe_arpaio_brings_the_birther.php

  142. PaulG says:
    April 6, 2012 at 2:16 pm  (Quote)

    I’ve seen a photo of a bible with holes in it.Is that what you mean? I thought that was what was left after Jefferson cut out the bits he wanted to keep to make his new one. I wonder what happened to that one?

  143. Majority Will says:
    April 6, 2012 at 2:29 pm  (Quote)

    PaulG:
    I’ve seen a photo of a bible with holes in it.Is that what you mean?I thought that was what was left after Jefferson cut out the bits he wanted to keep ookto make his new one. I wonder what happened to that one?

    Tom had translated pages of his edits in Greek, Latin, French and English. The man was thorough. He cut and pasted from different books with hand scrawled notes next to the passages like L3 for something from the Gospel of Luke. The next passage might be from Mark or John. See here: http://americanhistory.si.edu/JeffersonBible/the-book/?view=scan&page=6#dl

    He also had 14 slaves named Lucy. 12 of the Lucys had no last names. Multiple same names for lots of the slaves often with no last name. Awkward?

  144. Thomas Brown says:
    April 6, 2012 at 5:33 pm  (Quote)

    RuhRoh:
    The Phoenix New Times is running a photo caption contest for a picture of Shurruf Joe speaking to a church last weekend. I think several folks here would have an excellent chance of winning the contest! http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/joe_arpaio_brings_the_birther.php

    I suggested “Socialist Usurper?!! I thought this was for a Social and Supper!

  145. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm  (Quote)

    RuhRoh: The Phoenix New Times is running a photo caption contest for a picture of Shurruf Joe speaking to a church last weekend.
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/joe_arpaio_brings_the_birther.php

    Thomas Brown: I suggested “Socialist Usurper?!! I thought this was for a Social and Supper!

    Wait ’til you see my two suggestions.

  146. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 7:49 pm  (Quote)

    Egypt Haz Birfers!!!

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/your-mummy-was-an-american-egyptian-birthers-strike/

    At least theirs have a law to back them up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  147. Paul Pieniezny says:
    April 6, 2012 at 8:50 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Tom had translated pages of his edits in Greek, Latin, French and English. The man was thorough. He cut and pasted from different books with hand scrawled notes next to the passages like L3 for something from the Gospel of Luke. The next passage might be from Mark or John. See here: http://americanhistory.si.edu/JeffersonBible/the-book/?view=scan&page=6#dl

    Page 37 (about the man who was blind from birth) shows interestingly that Jefferson knew that the French parens did not mean the same thing as the English parents. He uses “pere et mere” for the English parents.

    So, Jefferson would not have interpreted that famous sentence in Vattel in the way the translator did a few years after the writing of the US Constitution.

    No, this “but the Founding Fathers understood French” thingie is not working very well for the birthers.

  148. Linda says:
    April 6, 2012 at 9:15 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: I suggested “Socialist Usurper?!! I thought this was for a Social and Supper!

    Brilliant! I will bring my (nearly) famous potato salad!

  149. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 9:47 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: I suggested “Socialist Usurper?!! I thought this was for a Social and Supper!

    Yours is a winner.

    OT: I looked at your profile. Before the stroke, I did not own a car; I had a Honda Rebel, and my wife worked for Indian when they made bikes in Taiwan. I lived in Gaithersburg for 13 years.

  150. Thomas Brown says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:07 pm  (Quote)

    misha: Yours is a winner.

    OT: I looked at your profile. Before the stroke, I did not own a car; I had a Honda Rebel, and my wife worked for Indian when they made bikes in Taiwan. I lived in Gaithersburg for 13 years.

    Once someone asked a guy giving a talk on motorcycling “I’ve noticed that BMW riders seem somehow different from other bikers. What do you think it is?” The fellow thought for a moment and said “They seem to want to go out and grind their motorcycles into dust.”

    Sorry to hear you can’t ride. But still, you had the courage, you merely lost the ability.

  151. Majority Will says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:15 pm  (Quote)

    Paul Pieniezny: Page 37 (about the man who was blind from birth) shows interestingly that Jefferson knew that the French parens did not mean the same thing as the English parents. He uses “pere et mere” for the English parents.

    So, Jefferson would not have interpreted that famous sentence in Vattel in the way the translator did a few years after the writing of the US Constitution.

    No, this “but the Founding Fathers understood French” thingie is not working very well for the birthers.

    That is quite interesting. Thanks.

  152. Linda says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:28 pm  (Quote)

    The whole Vattel’s argument is bogus. Yes Vattel’s existed, but we were an English Colony. England did not use Vattel’s definition for its “natural born citizen” definition and neither did its colonies. The law in the US since its existence until the time of the writing of the Constitution was as it was in England, that a child born within the realm was a natural born citizen, even a temporary travelor (other than to ambassadors and occupying armies).

    If, our most wise Founders, wanted to use that same term but define it differently, they would have done so. Same term, without clarification, means the same thing.

  153. J. Potter says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:35 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Egypt Haz Birfers!!!

    Yes, Ma’am, Eqypt is a Vatelly Birfer’s paradise. I keep asking them when the Egyptian Exodus begins. No takers thus far.

    I did come across one swearing he was heading to Canada if Obama is re-elected! 😀

  154. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:45 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: Sorry to hear you can’t ride. But still, you had the courage, you merely lost the ability.

    If I can get my license back, I’m going to buy a Ural Tourist. I won’t have to be concerned about balance, and Angel can ride with me.

    True story: I was walking around Chinatown with Angel. A woman from China literally asked me, “is that a horse?” I replied, “she’s an Afghan hound. Google it.”

    Turns out, she’s the woman in photograph #3:
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Cops-investigating-massage-parlor-robbery.html

    I walk by it every day. I thought it was a barber shop, complete with the revolving pole. Turns out, if you go into that “barber shop,” you get a different kind of clipping.

  155. misha says:
    April 6, 2012 at 10:51 pm  (Quote)

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Cops-investigating-massage-parlor-robbery.html

    See my comment. Warning: do not drink coffee while reading the comments.

  156. Sef says:
    April 7, 2012 at 2:06 pm  (Quote)

    Swenson hits the nail on the head :

    “If you think that the Tea Party people who have teamed up with and in some cases taken over certain counties will be incentivized to get out the vote in the face of the obvious cover up of these criminal activities I would advise you and the executive board to think again. This issue is growing not waning in the hearts and minds of Clayton County Republicans and GOP, normally faithful, across the country.”

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4555&start=300

    I ask: “So what’s the problem?”

  157. J. Potter says:
    April 7, 2012 at 2:59 pm  (Quote)

    Sef: I ask: “So what’s the problem?”

    No kiddin’. If those who have been consumed by their own fears feel compelled to abandon politics, how can I help usher them along?

    …. so long as they don’t decide to fight the system they’re leaving with violence. Which is something else Carl endorses. How is it that a party tolerates one of its officers openly fomenting rebellion? Particularly the “party of Lincoln”?

  158. Linda says:
    April 7, 2012 at 5:28 pm  (Quote)

    OMG! Have y’all seen the stuff going on in the MS ballot challenge case? Attorney Tepper filed for PHV and co-counsel also filed lettere requesting that the Court waive the home address requirement on the PHV application, stating that Taitz has a habit of posting those on her website and asking her followers to contact them with examples attached. PHV was granted 4/2/12 and the Order was filed 4/5/12. HOWEVER, in one giant asinine move even by her standards, on 4/5/12 Taitz filed what I believe is a sanction-worthy Response to the waiver request IN WHICH SHE INCLUDED ATTACHMENTS from her website that INCLUDED Tepper’s address.

    Jack Ryan has it all on Scribd, here are the links:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/88054671/MS-2012-04-04-Begley-Letter-to-Judge-Coleman-Re-PHV
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/88160325/2012-04-05-MS-TEPPER-ORDER-Granting-Pro-Hac-Vice
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/88152441/2012-04-05-MS-TAITZ-Response-to-Request-to-Waive-Home-Address-in-PHV-AP

    There is no file-stamp on the Orly’s response, but JR uploaded and published it. Does that mean it is filed? Could she still be sanctioned if not?

    The woman is not just a lunatic, she is becoming more and more dangerous.

  159. J. Potter says:
    April 7, 2012 at 5:34 pm  (Quote)

    Linda: OMG! Have y’all seen the stuff going on in the MS ballot challenge case?

    Yeah, NBC has been providing up to the minute coverage of the filings on his site. I don’t know if she filed the letter, or just prepared it for offloading to her sycophants. The woman has no decency. Makes Inside Edition looks prim and proper.

  160. misha says:
    April 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm  (Quote)

    Linda: Response to the waiver request IN WHICH SHE INCLUDED ATTACHMENTS from her website that INCLUDED Tepper’s address…The woman is not just a lunatic, she is becoming more and more dangerous.

    Which is what I have been saying since she started. Her goal, without hyperbole, is to incite a lone wolf.

    When I look at Roy Cohn, Andrew Breitbart, Pam Geller and the rest, I am personally embarassed that we produced such momsers. What has happened to us?

  161. justlw says:
    April 9, 2012 at 4:32 pm  (Quote)

    HuffPo has a story covering an interview with Sheriff Joe:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/joe-arpaio-gop-presidential-candidates-birthers_n_1412259.html

    His major complaint: no one on the GOP side will pay any attention to him, either.

    In an even slightly saner universe, I’d think most birthers would maybe consider that very significant point that Arpaio has so nicely articulated and think, “Game over.”

    (But they I’m sure they instead actually think that they got to them. You know: them. And them.)

    My big question, though: does this total lack of uptake mean that Arpaio is missing his quota? Will WND sue him for breach of contract? No steak knives for him, that’s for sure.

  162. JPotter says:
    April 9, 2012 at 5:11 pm  (Quote)

    justlw: HuffPo has a story covering an interview with Sheriff Joe:

    Link found in comments there:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/07/conservative-politics-low-effort-thinking_n_1410448.html

  163. misha says:
    April 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm  (Quote)

    JPotter: Link found in comments there: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/07/conservative-politics-low-effort-thinking_n_1410448.html

    “WORST STATES FOR SCIENCE EDUCATION” – I’m proud to see New York was not on the list.

  164. J. Potter says:
    April 9, 2012 at 8:17 pm  (Quote)

    misha: “WORST STATES FOR SCIENCE EDUCATION” – I’m proud to see New York was not on the list.

    Yes, the unexplained rankings, inexplicably paired with touristy scenery shots! What a fail. As if to say, “Idaho: who needs science when you’ve got the beautiful Snake River?” Does the existence of the Snake River doom science education efforts?

  165. Sef says:
    April 9, 2012 at 8:49 pm  (Quote)

    misha: “WORST STATES FOR SCIENCE EDUCATION” – I’m proud to see New York was not on the list.

    But NY only got a B+.

  166. Keith says:
    April 10, 2012 at 12:04 am  (Quote)

    misha: “WORST STATES FOR SCIENCE EDUCATION” – I’m proud to see New York was not on the list.

    All I can say is “Thank his noodley appendage for Alabama.

    When I went to school in Arizona, it was ranked as one of the tops in the country for science education. I consider my Arizona school experience as ‘world class’ by any measure.

    This state of affairs is pathetic.

  167. J. Potter says:
    April 10, 2012 at 1:49 am  (Quote)

    Keith: When I went to school in Arizona, it was ranked as one of the tops in the country for science education.

    ll I can say about my experience in Okieland is …. well, bless their sweet little peapickin’ hearts. At least the well-meaning people were encouraging. In all other respects, a miserable waste; I will spend the rest of my life paying for the inadequacies thereof.

  168. Sef says:
    April 10, 2012 at 9:06 am  (Quote)

    J. Potter: ll I can say about my experience in Okieland is …. well, bless their sweet little peapickin’ hearts. At least the well-meaning people were encouraging. In all other respects, a miserable waste; I will spend the rest of my life paying for the inadequacies thereof.

    At least you know it was inadequate. Most are happy as clams in their ignorance/

  169. JPotter says:
    April 10, 2012 at 9:35 am  (Quote)

    Sef: At least you know it was inadequate. Most are happy as clams in their ignorance/

    Indeed! And truly scary they are … teh incredible laziness of wanting to remain ignorant. Society’s heavy anchor.

  170. JPotter says:
    April 10, 2012 at 9:35 am  (Quote)

    … says the man who habitually misspells ‘teh’.

  171. JPotter says:
    April 10, 2012 at 11:15 am  (Quote)

    Here’s a classic cartoons that hits on several themes of birtherism … xenophobia, hypocrisy, the citizenzhip of chinese immigrants and their offspring … Thomas Nast, 1870, found at CartoonStock.com.

    Thomas Nast, an Obot in History!

    http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/csl0663l.jpg

  173. Keith says:
    April 11, 2012 at 2:34 am  (Quote)

    gorefan:
    Mario lost in new Jersey court today.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/04/nj-judge-admits-obama-hasnt-provided.html

    And in other news, water is wet. Film at 11.

  174. Lupin says:
    April 11, 2012 at 2:48 am  (Quote)

    gorefan:
    Mario lost in new Jersey court today.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/04/nj-judge-admits-obama-hasnt-provided.html

    And in the comments, the usual appeal for civil war, etc.

    As for Mario, his, yes, clownish performance only reinforces my views that it’s all an act.

  176. misha says:
    April 11, 2012 at 3:33 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: Tea Party Marine Hires Birther Lawyer And Lies To CNN

    Gary Kreep is a Holocaust denier.

  177. Lupin says:
    April 11, 2012 at 4:08 am  (Quote)

    misha: Gary Kreep is a Holocaust denier.

    Why am I not surprised?

  178. gorefan says:
    April 11, 2012 at 2:55 pm  (Quote)

    From the

    Lupin: As for Mario, his, yes, clownish performance only reinforces my views that it’s all an act.

    From the Judge Masin’s initial decision:

    “Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr.Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a “natural born Citizen” regardless of the status of his father.”

    Mario in his response to the Judges decision complains that Judge Masin decide the President was born in Hawaii without any evidence. But it is clear that Judge Masin is only stipulating that the President was born in Hawaii for the single point of discussing the two citizen parent theory.

  179. ballantine says:
    April 11, 2012 at 3:18 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: From the From the Judge Maison’s initial decision:“Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr.Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a “natural born Citizen” regardless of the status of his father.”Mario in his response to the Judges decision complains that Judge Masin decide the President was born in Hawaii without any evidence. But it is clear that Judge Masin is only stipulating that the President was born in Hawaii for the single point of discussing the two citizen parent theory.

    Of course, the court points out that Obama doesn’t have to provide proof of his place of birth:

    “In this matter, as the petitioners’ objection is that Mr. Obama has not provided the Secretary with proof of the place of his birth by means of a birth certificate or otherwise, the lack of any obligation on his part to do so means he has not failed to act in accordance with the applicable law.”

    Gee, so that means one has to show there is an obligation to prove native birth before claiming someone has violated such duty? Who would have thought that? And, of course, the court eviscerates the two-parent nonsense:

    “The second objection involves the meaning of the Constitutional phrase, “natural born Citizen.” Discussion and consideration of this issue is of course relevant only on the understanding that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii. This issue has been the subject of litigation concerning Mr. Obama’s candidacy in several jurisdictions. No court, federal, state or administrative, has accepted the challengers’ position that Mr. Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” due to the acknowledged fact that his father was born in Kenya and was a British citizen by virtue of the then applicable British Nationality Act. Nor has the fact that Obama had, or may have had, dual citizenship at the time of his birth and thereafter been held to deny him the status of natural born. It is unnecessary to reinvent the wheel here; the subject has been thoroughly reviewed and no new legal argument on this issue has been offered here. While there are several decisions that could be cited, the decision issued by the Court of Appeals of Indiana in 2009 in Ankeny v. Governor, 916 N.E.2d 678 (Ind. Ct. App. 2009), is representative of the position taken by courts and other agencies who have considered the merits of the issue. As the court therein noted, and as the petitioners here have contended, the thrust of the argument against Obama’s status as natural born is that there is a “clear distinction between being a citizen of the United states’ and a natural born Citizen.” Id. at 685. The decision notes that the petitioner therein, as here, cites to an eighteenth century treatise by Emmerich de Vattel, “The Law of Nations” and to various early sources for support for their argument that one who is the child of a non-citizen cannot be natural born even if born in the United States. But the Ankeny court, relying upon the decision of the United States Supreme Court in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S.649, 18 S. Ct. 456, 42 L. Ed. 890 (1898), rejected that position.2 In Wong Kim Ark, Justice Gray wrote at great length about the understanding of the term “natural born” and its common law meaning, probing English authorities and concluding that the “law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, . . . every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.” This position as to the common law meaning is in accord with Justice Joseph Story’s statement, concurring in Inglis v. Trustees of Sailors’ Snug Harbor, 28 U.S. (3 Pet.) 99,7 L. Ed. 617 (1830), “Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children, even of aliens, born in a country, while the parents reside there under the protection of the government, and owing a temporary allegiance thereto, are subjects by birth.” See Wong Kim Ark, 160 U.S. at 660, 18 S. Ct. at 461. In Wong Kim Ark, the Court also cited Justice Swayne’s comment in United States v. Rhodes, 1 Abbott 26,40, 41 (1860) “All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural-born subjects, and all person born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England.” The Wong Kim Ark Court then stated “We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions [children of ambassadors, etc.], since as before the Revolution. [Wong Kim Ark, supra, at 169 U.S. 662-663, 18 S. Ct. at462]. The Georgia Secretary of State recently denied a similar challenge to Mr. Obama’s status as a natural born citizen in Farrar, et al. v. Obama, OSAH-SECSTATE-CE-1215136-60-MAHIHI, where Georgia State Administrative Law Judge Mahili relied upon Ankeny and Wong Kim Ark for his ruling that the President was indeed a natural born Citizen.”

    2. The Wong Kim Ark decision was preceded by Minor v. Happersett, 88 (21 Wall.) U.S. 162, 167, 22L.Ed. 627 (1874), where the Supreme Court stated that while the Constitution did not say “in words” “who shall be natural-born citizens” there were “some authorities” who held that “children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents” were citizens. The Court concludes that it was not necessary to decide that issue in Minor. Wong Kim Ark more directly addresses the issue of who is “natural-born” although it is acknowledged that neither of these cases involved the use of the term in connection with a presidential candidate and the unique Constitutional requirements for holding that office. Nevertheless, the Wong Kim Ark ruling certainly goes very far in defining the term and its meaning in this country. And the decision does not suggest that the common law rule identified therein only applied at the state level and not on a national basis, as counsel here claims.

  180. gorefan says:
    April 11, 2012 at 3:43 pm  (Quote)

    The footnote is classic and will live in infamy at birther websites.

    All in all, the birthers are developing quite a collection of cases declaring Wong Kim Ark as precedent and Minor as not precedent for the meaning of natural born Citizen.

    That collection will be quite helpful in the general election and in future elections should Senator Rubio or Governor Jindal decide to run in the future.

  181. ballantine says:
    April 11, 2012 at 4:11 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: The footnote is classic and will live in infamy at birther websites.All in all, the birthers are developing quite a collection of cases declaring Wong Kim Ark as precedent and Minor as not precedent for the meaning of natural born Citizen. That collection will be quite helpful in the general election and in future elections should Senator Rubio or Governor Jindal decide to run in the future.

    Yep, they are estalishing quite a collection of cases. I just posted this on fogbow:

    Ankeny v. Daniels, 916 N.E.2d 678 (Ind. Ct. App. 2009) (citing Wong Kim Ark to hold that ” persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents”) transfer denied 929 N.E.2d 789 (Ind. 2010);

    Farrar et al v. Obama, OSAH-SECSTATE-CE-1215136-60-MALIHI (Feb. 3, 2012) (Ga. Office of State Admin. Hearings) (citing Wong Kim Ark and Ankeny v. Daniels to conclude that Obama is natural born citizen by virtue of his birth in the United States);

    Purpura and Moran v. Obama, OAL DKT. NO. STE 04534-12 (April, 10, 2012)(citing Ankeny and Wong Kim Ark to conclude that “[t]he petitioners’ legal position on this issue, however well intentioned, has no merit in law. Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a “natural born Citizen” regardless of the status of his father”);

    Allen v. Obama et al, No. C20121317 (Ariz. Pima County Super. Ct., Mar. 7, 2012) (order dismissing complaint)(citing Wong Kim Ark to conclude “this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President”);

    Tisdale v. Obama, No. 3: 12-cv-00036-JAG (E.D. Va. Jan. 23, 2012) (order dismissing complaint) (concluding that “It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens”);

    Jackson v. Obama, 12 SOEB GP 104 (Jan. 27, 2012) (hearing officer recommendation) (Obama’s birth certificate “clearly establishes” his eligibility for office as a “Natural Born Citizen”), objection overruled (Ill. State Bd. of Elections, Feb. 3, 2012);

    Freeman v. Obama, 12 SOEB GP 103 (Jan. 27, 2012) (hearing officer recommendation) (Obama’s birth certificate “clearly establishes” his eligibility for office as a “Natural Born Citizen”), objection overruled (Ill. State Board of Elections, Feb. 3, 2012);

    Hollander v. McCain, 566 F.Supp.2d 63, 66 (“Those born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ have been considered American citizens under American law in effect since the time of the founding and thus eligible for the presidency”).

  182. gorefan says:
    April 11, 2012 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    ballantine: Yep, they are estalishing quite a collection of cases.

    From sea to shining sea.

  183. Rickey says:
    April 11, 2012 at 5:17 pm  (Quote)

    I like this part:

    It is unnecessaryto reinvent the wheel here; the subject has been thoroughly reviewed and no new legal argument on this issue has been offered here.

  184. Arthur says:
    April 11, 2012 at 6:54 pm  (Quote)

    Georgia Supreme Court
    Farrar v. Obama et al.

    Disposition Date: April 11, 2012
    Application denied
    All the Justices concur.

    http://www.gasupreme.us/docket_search/results_one_record.php?caseNumber=S12D1180

  185. Evil Saint says:
    April 11, 2012 at 8:22 pm  (Quote)

    First off, I really appreciate the great research on Obama BC theories. Has been handy and accessible in dealing with a couple of forum RWNJs. Victory there is judged by them giving up a thread and no further posting on the thread. Currently, I am having trouble debunking their claim of a Pres. Obama-Muslim Brotherhood connection. Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

  186. nbc says:
    April 11, 2012 at 8:32 pm  (Quote)

    He met with them. The end. What’s Obama’s link with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? The same…

    Communication.. Something Republicans do not comprehend.

  187. nbc says:
    April 11, 2012 at 8:34 pm  (Quote)

    Since President Obama made a major point in his campaign of speaking to other leaders, even unfriendly ones (the Iranian leaders were the most mentioned), these talks with the two historically most anti-American movements in Egypt may mark an important turning point indeed.

    The Republicans, of course, have had a consistent policy of studiously ignoring unfriendly nations — speaking with them or negotiating with them was the equivalent of speaking with the devil. In general, the Democrats have tended to believe in having relations with every country and every leader, no matter what their beliefs or intentions, because you then have a better chance of working with them.

    Source: Dispatch

  188. nbc says:
    April 11, 2012 at 8:35 pm  (Quote)

    And Joe Walsh disagrees with Obama, that by itself should say enough 🙂

  189. Arthur says:
    April 11, 2012 at 9:13 pm  (Quote)

    Occassionally, I like to read the comments at Obama Release Your Records. I came across a poster who is is insisting, through multiple posts, that President Obama has AIDS:

    “Obama has ARC (Aids Related Complex), and he is 100% definitely HIV positive. He received the HIV virus & he now has ARC (Aids Related Complex) from Mr. Spencer, one of the three gay men Obama had gay sex with, who later died in Chicago of Aids while Obama was campaigning in 2008.

    “It has been revealed that two other gay men that Obama had regular gay sex and wild drug parties with in Chicago were murdered so they would not be able to talk publicly about their regular gay sex and wild drug parties they regularly participated in with Obama, when Obama called on them in Chicago……..

    “Because of the Aids Related Complex (ARC) Obama has, he is rapidly losing weight and is becoming cachexic. Obama has cancerous lesions in his brain, on his lungs, and on his liver at this time and Obama is dying of Aids and cancer at this time. That is why he is rapidly losing weight. This was revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST.

    “Other things were revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST that I am sending to the Cold Case Posse, Jerome Corsi, Mike Zullo, and Sheriff Arpaio. The information I just said did not come from me. I personally report what LORD JESUS CHRIST told me.”

    Although the poster remains anonymous, he/she kind of sounds like Geir Smith.

  190. misha says:
    April 11, 2012 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur: This was revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST. Other things were revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST that I am sending to the Cold Case Posse, Jerome Corsi, Mike Zullo, and Sheriff Arpaio. The information I just said did not come from me. I personally report what LORD JESUS CHRIST told me.

    I’m glad I’m Jewish.

  191. Sef says:
    April 11, 2012 at 9:30 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur: “Because of the Aids Related Complex (ARC) Obama has, he is rapidly losing weight and is becoming cachexic. Obama has cancerous lesions in his brain, on his lungs, and on his liver at this time and Obama is dying of Aids and cancer at this time. That is why he is rapidly losing weight. This was revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST.

    “Other things were revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST that I am sending to the Cold Case Posse, Jerome Corsi, Mike Zullo, and Sheriff Arpaio. The information I just said did not come from me. I personally report what LORD JESUS CHRIST told me.”

    Good Lord!

  192. nbc says:
    April 11, 2012 at 9:30 pm  (Quote)

    Well, we have some real evidence, finally. I am sure the Cold Case Posse is hot on these new revelations…

  193. Thomas Brown says:
    April 11, 2012 at 10:14 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur:
    Occassionally, I like to read the comments at Obama Release Your Records.I came across a poster who is is insisting, through multiple posts, that President Obama has AIDS:

    “Because of the Aids Related Complex (ARC) Obama has, he is rapidly losing weight and is becoming cachexic. Obama has cancerous lesions in his brain, on his lungs, and on his liver at this time and Obama is dying of Aids and cancer at this time. That is why he is rapidly losing weight. This was revealed to me by LORD JESUS CHRIST.

    There is apparently no thought too disgusting, no fantasy too depraved, no wish too demonic, to live in the hearts of these sub-humans who call themselves Patriots and Christians.

  194. Linda says:
    April 11, 2012 at 10:16 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur:
    Occassionally, I like to read the comments at Obama Release Your Records.I came across a poster who is is insisting, through multiple posts, that President Obama has AIDS:

    Isn’t it odd that Christ seems to talk to the same people who are abducted by UFO’s? I believe, but he doesn’t give me stock tips or insights into the medical workings of others.

  195. Arthur says:
    April 11, 2012 at 10:36 pm  (Quote)

    Linda: Isn’t it odd that Christ seems to talk to the same people who are abducted by UFO’s? I believe, but he doesn’t give me stock tips or insights into the medical workings of others.

    That’s one of the many reasons I am very skeptical of reports of supernatural activity, religious or otherwise.

  196. Thrifty says:
    April 11, 2012 at 10:38 pm  (Quote)

    So were the 12 apostles, but Jesus didn’t leave them alone.

    misha: I’m glad I’m Jewish.

  197. Evil Saint says:
    April 11, 2012 at 11:19 pm  (Quote)

    nbc: Source: Dispatch

    Thanks for that, seems that in search of facts is obscured by pages of RWNJ nonsense.

  198. nbc says:
    April 12, 2012 at 12:10 am  (Quote)

    Evil Saint: Thanks for that, seems that in search of facts is obscured by pages of RWNJ nonsense.

    Color me surprised… No really…

  199. justlw says:
    April 12, 2012 at 1:37 am  (Quote)

    nbc: He met with them.

    When this came up elsewhere (someone reacting with horror and amazement that the Obama administration would dare to speak with the Muslim Brotherhood), I stole a page from Doc’s book, and posted a link to a photo of the President meeting Muslim leaders inside the White House.

    The President in the photo was Reagan.

    (Here in 2012, I’m pretty sure Obama himself did not actually meet with the Muslim Brotherhood envoys.)

  201. Keith says:
    April 12, 2012 at 8:34 am  (Quote)

    I found an interesting Executive Order by Andrew Jackson in 1830. I know its about a year late to related it to anything that has been going on, but I find it interesting never-the-less.

    Every Executive Order issued by every President from John Quincy Adams in 1826 to Barrack Hussein Obama is listed at The American Presidency Project. Lots of other cool stuff too.

    What we have here is the Secretary of War, John Eaton, passing on Jackson’s Executive Order to the Army:

    Congress at their last session passed an act repealing so much of the military law as imposes the penalty of death on those who “in time of peace” shall be found guilty of the crime of desertion. To give complete effect to the benevolent designs of said act, and that the Army may be correctly informed, it is hereby proclaimed that a free and full pardon is extended to those who at the date of this order stand in the character of deserters. All who are under arrest for this offense at the different posts and garrisons will be forthwith liberated, and return to their duty. Such as are roaming at large and those who are under sentence of death are discharged, and are not again to be permitted to enter the Army, nor at any time hereafter to be enlisted in the service of the country. It is desirable and highly important that the ranks of the Army should be composed of respectable, not degraded, materials. Those who can be so lost to the obligations of a soldier as to abandon a country which morally they are bound to defend, and which solemnly they have sworn to serve, are unworthy, and should be confided in no more.

    I seem to recall one such person ‘lost to the obligations of a soldier’ that was lauded to the heavens by certain internet ‘personalities’. That Andrew ‘Old Hickory’ Jackson, defender of slavery, states rights, Indian removal, and individual rights (for white male citizens) would consider the ex-military doctor that chose to “abandon a country which morally (he was) bound to defend, and which solemnly (he had) sworn to serve” as “unworthy, and should be confided in no more”, is a stunning slap in the face for those who call that ex-military doctor a “patriot” and “hero”.

  202. The Magic M says:
    April 12, 2012 at 11:21 am  (Quote)

    nbc: Well, we have some real evidence, finally. I am sure the Cold Case Posse is hot on these new revelations…

    Well, “God told me” has worked before, hasn’t it? The birther audience is the same crowd that burned witches in the Dark Ages. The same crowd that has been exploited by religious leaders dressing their own plans as “God’s will” for centuries.

  203. misha says:
    April 12, 2012 at 1:33 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith: Obama’s the Antichrist

    Mr. Smith: How many times do I have to tell you it is physically impossible for Obama to be the Antichrist:

    Fallwell: “The anti-Christ is walking among us in the shape of a male Jew.”
    Hagee: “The anti-Christ will be Jewish, as was Karl Marx, as was Adolf H——.” [Done to avoid moderation filter.]

    Obama is not Jewish the last time I checked with the Mossad, although Michelle Robinson-Obama does have one paternal great-grandmother whose last name was Cohen. Maybe she wins on a technicality.

    Learn your eschatology.

  204. misha says:
    April 12, 2012 at 1:42 pm  (Quote)

    The Magic M: The birther audience is the same crowd that burned witches in the Dark Ages.

    Also, they believed cats were the devil in disguise. so they killed cats by the thousands which made the Plague worse. They also burned at the stake Jews, believing that would make the Plague stop.

    The Magic M: The same crowd that has been exploited by religious leaders dressing their own plans as “God’s will” for centuries.

    “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” – Seneca

  205. Rickey says:
    April 12, 2012 at 3:26 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith:
    Obama’s the Antichrist;
    He’ll fall in May.
    That’s the 1330 days of the Antichrist-Rule since his election in Nov. 2008.

    Except that Obama didn’t begin to “rule” until January 20, 2009.

    So that’s 346 days in 2009, 365 days in both 2010 and 2011, and May 31 will be the 152nd day of 2012. That adds up to 1228 days. You won’t hit the 1330th day until September 10.

    If fact, even if you counted from Election Day 2008 you wouldn’t reach 1330 days until June 25.

    Would you like to sign up for my remedial arithmetic course?

  206. Geir Smith says:
    April 12, 2012 at 3:41 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Except that Obama didn’t begin to “rule” until January 20, 2009.

    So that’s 346 days in 2009, 365 days in both 2010 and 2011, and May 31 will be the 152nd day of 2012. That adds up to 1228 days. You won’t hit the 1330th day until September 10.

    If fact, even if you counted from Election Day 2008 you wouldn’t reach 1330 days until June 25.

    Would you like to sign up for my remedial arithmetic course?

    The Bible may mean “rule” from the election itself on Nov. 4th 2008. It also says “No one knows the day and hour when Truth will come to Earth.”

    The 42 months (3 and a half years) if calculated from that date would mean May 4th. If it’s from Jan. 2009, Inauguration Day then it’ll be in July. But the fall is in slow motion. The Bible says the Apocalypse is a long process of seven years. The crux is the halfway mark of 3 and half years i.e. 42 months.

    If Obama starts falling now by revealing that he was marked by the Number 666 on election he may be ripe for jail in May next.

    Look at the newspaper scan of the day of his victory with the 666 lottery draw on Page 2. This article is now viral.

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/2013/802/Good_News_Apocalypse_Obamas_Antichrist.html

  207. Geir Smith says:
    April 12, 2012 at 3:45 pm  (Quote)

    misha: Mr. Smith: How many times do I have to tell you it is physically impossible for Obama to be the Antichrist:

    Fallwell: “The anti-Christ is walking among us in the shape of a male Jew.”
    Hagee: “The anti-Christ will be Jewish, as was Karl Marx, as was Adolf H——.” [Done to avoid moderation filter.]

    Obama is not Jewish the last time I checked with the Mossad, although Michelle Robinson-Obama does have one paternal great-grandmother whose last name was Cohen. Maybe she wins on a technicality.

    Learn your eschatology.

    Obama’s brother and cousin are Jewish from his official biography. (Mark Ndesandjo and Capers Funnye http://www.google.fr/#hl=fr&sclient=psy-ab&q=obama+cousin+jewish&oq=obama+cousin+jewish&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3…8572l9887l2l10471l7l7l0l0l0l0l300l1036l0j6j0j1l7l0.llsin.&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=bdb3ce1183bd47ab&biw=1280&bih=878) But we don’t know who Obama really is in fact. The Bible says the Antichrist is a Man from Nowhere i./e. with no past. He’s the Great Deceiver. A fraud.

  208. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm  (Quote)

    I moved this to the open thread.

    Basically when I read your comments, I see that you’re not really committing to anything and the essential issue is that what you are saying is not falsifiable (one couldn’t determine that it false by looking at events as they happen). Such a statement carries no information, makes no claim, and does nothing but waste time. Maybe it makes you feel good to make grand-sounding statements about the apocalypse, but that’s just in your own head and you could do it without visiting this web site.

    Geir Smith: The Bible may mean “rule” from the election itself on Nov. 4th 2008. It also says “No one knows the day and hour when Truth will come to Earth.”

  209. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    April 12, 2012 at 4:39 pm  (Quote)

    President Obama doesn’t have a brother.

    Geir Smith: Obama’s brother and cousin are Jewish

  210. Thomas Brown says:
    April 12, 2012 at 5:21 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith is the Antichrist. That’s why he must spend so much time trying to convince us it’s somebody else.

  211. misha says:
    April 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith: Obama’s brother and cousin are Jewish from his official biography. (Mark Ndesandjo and Capers Funnye

    Dr. Conspiracy: President Obama doesn’t have a brother.

    Capers Funnye is Michelle Robinson-Obama’s first cousin, once removed. He is the rabbi of an Ethiopian congregation in Chicago. He is a convert, and we are proud to have him.

    I am a graduate of a Jesuit college, and your twisted views are vile.

  212. Thomas Brown says:
    April 12, 2012 at 5:58 pm  (Quote)

    Wretched Birther, to be weak is miserable
    Doing or Suffering: but of this be sure,
    To do any good never will be your task,
    But ever to do ill your sole delight,
    As being contrary to his high will
    Whom you resist. If then his President
    Out of your evil seek to bring forth good,
    Your labour will be to pervert that end,
    And out of good still to find means of evil;
    Which oft times may succeed, so as perhaps
    Shall grieve him, if you fail not, and disturb
    His inmost counsels from their destined aim.

  213. Obsolete says:
    April 12, 2012 at 6:16 pm  (Quote)

    Why does purported Christian Geir Smith keep lying about the Illinois lottery numbers on Obama’s election day?

  214. Majority Will says:
    April 12, 2012 at 6:33 pm  (Quote)

    Obsolete:
    Why does purported Christian Geir Smith keep lying about the Illinois lottery numbers on Obama’s election day?

    Ceti eel.

  215. JPotter says:
    April 12, 2012 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    It’s small-time, but this is an interesting election mess:

    http://www.kwgs.org/post/district-71-mess-gets-messier

    Reassuring to know that even in the least democratic state in the country, individual votes do matter.

  216. justlw says:
    April 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Ceti eel.

    I always thought the Ceti eel was a pretty silly idea — how and why would a lifeform adapt itself to do something like that? — until I started reading about things like this.

    Now whenever somebody accuses me of doing something really contra-survival, I can say, “Hey. Toxoplasmosis is a bitch, y’know?”

  217. Majority Will says:
    April 12, 2012 at 8:43 pm  (Quote)

    justlw: I always thought the Ceti eel was a pretty silly idea — how and why would a lifeform adapt itself to do something like that? — until I started reading about things like this.

    Now whenever somebody accuses me of doing something really contra-survival, I can say, “Hey. Toxoplasmosis is a bitch, y’know?”

    Nice. But Geir is a fungus.

  218. Rickey says:
    April 12, 2012 at 10:15 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith:

    Look at the newspaper scan of the day of his victory with the 666 lottery draw on Page 2. This article is now viral.

    It wasn’t the day of his victory. It was the day after the day of his victory. And 666 was the winning number in the Illinois lottery four times in 2008.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/lottery.asp

  219. Rickey says:
    April 12, 2012 at 10:27 pm  (Quote)

    Geir Smith: Obama’s brother and cousin are Jewish from his official biography. (Mark Ndesandjo and Capers Funnye)

    More nonsense from you.;

    Even if Obama’s half-brother, Mark Ndesandio, is Jewish (a dubious proposition), it doesn’t make Barack Obama a Jew. The only way that Mark Ndesandio could be Jewish is through his mother, and President Obama isn’t a blood relation of Mark’s mother.

    And as Misha has pointed out, Capers Funnye isn’t Barack Obama’s cousin. He is Michelle Obama’s cousin, once removed.

    You claim to be a Christian, yet you persist in spreading lies. Why is that?

  220. katahdin says:
    April 12, 2012 at 10:33 pm  (Quote)

    President Obama actually has five brothers, one of whom is deceased, as well as two sisters. His oldest brother, whose name is Ray if I remember correctly, served as best man at his wedding.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    President Obama doesn’t have a brother.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.