Pig
I was reminded today of Barack Obama’s comment during the campaign: you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.
Philip Berg is having a lot of trouble with the filing of his cases, overcoming his lack of standing, and fighting off judges who consider the lawsuits “frivolous”. Some have suggested the the basic problem is that Berg isn’t a very good lawyer and that he needs some highpowered assistance.
I think the essential problem Berg has is not with his legal skills, but that his allegations are no good. His “evidence” is nothing but unsubstantiated rumors and mangled citations of the law. The case can file interpleader, or Qui Tam or whatever else they come up with. They can get the best lawyer in the country, but in the end the case is based on a false premise. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.
This allegation by Orly:
“5. When Mr. Soetoro-Obama came back to this country, he studied at Occidental college. Mr.Soetoro-Obama keeps his immigration records, passports and school and university enrollment records sealed, however a number of his former classmates from Occidental college made statements, that they remember him as Barry Soetoro. There is an entry in CA journal of Assembly, showing financial aid given to foreign exchange students among them Soetoro from Indonesia. Mr. Soetoro – Obama has stated that he traveled to Pakistan in 1981, when there was a ban on US citizens to travel to Pakistan and the only reasonable explanation is that he traveled on his Indonesian passport. All of these facts show that as an adult Mr. Soetoro has confirmed his allegiance to Indonesia, while relinquishing his US citizenship.”
Is based upon this so called “evidence.” I remember seeing it on her blog.
“In regard to the Soetoro in the state records, there was one I saw on line that said a foreign exchange student at El Camino High in Sacramento area, (I think), had visited the State Capitol with a bunch of students. Some people were speculating that Barry had gone to HS in Calif. for a year, which to was ridiculous — he’s going to leave a prestigious school like Punahou and go to a public HS in Calif? And besides, there was no time he could have done that. I’ve also seen a yearbook photo, from El Camino I’m pretty sure, that showed a student named Soetoro — definitely not Barry. Maybe his stepfather, maybe another person named Soetoro. I think the Soetoro mentioned in the state record and the one in the yearbook must be the same, and the date was before Barry’s birth or when he was an infant.”
Notice in Orly’s statement she doesn’t say “Barry Obama” but rather “Soetoro from Indonesia.”
“however a number of his former classmates from Occidental college made statements, that they remember him as Barry Soetoro” is a bald-faced lie. They knew him as Barry Obama.
Please don’t insult bald faced people, my boss was bald, just say “lying sack of S***”, that is more accurate. Her readers are unlikely to check out anything she spouts, so she can do it with impunity (and they still send money). To her, hating Obama is a cottage Industry and she doesn’t have to account for the donations. Imagine that a lawyer that keeps losing cases keeps getting donations by lying on a press release.
Remember her claims:
“Justice John Roberts agreed to forward my case to the full court and it will be heard in the conference. Chief Justice Roberts obviously supports the case, so do Justices Clarence Thomas and Antonia Scalia and possibly Justice Samuel Alito”
Flat out lies, yet no Birther questioned her, amazing!
She lied to raise funds, and the fundies fell for it! As Birthers are full of hate it is easy to manipulate them (Orly does that well as Birthers are lie lovers)!
It still comes down to competence as a lawyer: Competent lawyers do NOT file frivolous or ungrounded law suits.
They turn down clients who come to them with ill-founded actions. They explain the law: “I’m sorry, I understand your concern, but you just don’t have a case…. and here’s why.”
Those who do want to pursue test cases or ground-breaking cases spend a LOT of time and effort in preparation – so that they can get it right. They don’t waste their time or the court’s time with cases that are certain to be thrown out from the outset.
Yes, John Roberts was so supportive of Orly’s case that he made a special trip over to the White House to swear Barack Obama in a 2nd time after he’d garbled the oath of office the first time around.
(I’d note that the Constitution does NOT require that the oath be administered by the Supreme Court Chief Justice — any judge would do — so JR could have begged off the repeat performance, and Obama could have still have arranged for a different court Justice or a Circuit Court judge to give a 2nd oath if he or his lawyers felt it necessary).
I heard a bit of her on the plains radio thing with those Reps from TN, NH & OK. She repeated this same claim, as well as a bunch of other lies.
I doubt their opponents in the next election will forget these guys signed onto this. I’m seeing photoshopped tinfoil hats on a few.
If you go to books.google.com and do a search for “Soetero Moestabjab” you’ll find the entry that got the birthers all in a dither. Apparently some Indonesian foreign exchange student by that name attended a California high school (El Camino High) through AFS, which is a foreign exchange program for high school students. ‘Nuff said.
I continue to wonder about Berg. Today I was reading an interview Berg gave to America’s Right http://www.americasright.com/2008/08/q-with-phillip-berg.html
I have a hard time reconciling the person in that interview, with the lawsuit it filed, and the position he held as Asst. Attorney General of Pennsylvania.
I’ve said it before: these “lawyers” are either publicity-seekers or psychotics. I have no background whatsoever in psychiatry, so I am in no way qualified to speculate on the latter — I just know that very smart and capable people can be delusional and do very strange stuff.
But I lean toward “publicity seeker” simply because that provides a strong motive to grandstand and to keep going in way that will keep attention (and money) flowing, and it seems to me that in many ways these lawyers may be knowingly drafting their pleadings in a way that is more geared to impress the media or their supporters than to set forth a plausible cause of action. One good example is simply the fact that they continue to pursue actions to “stay” or “enjoin” things after those things have already occurred. That would be like a lawyer asking the Supreme Court to stay an execution after the client was already dead and buried. An action for injunctive relief dies whenever the thing you are trying to prevent actually happens — I think these lawyers know this, but they don’t want to go to the time and trouble of drafting and filing new legal actions, and incurring associated filing fees.
You’ll note that none of these guys tried to bring an action to enjoin the Inauguration itself. The standing problem would still have existed, of course — but the procedurally proper thing to do would have been to file new actions as circumstances changed — so after Congress ratified the electoral college vote, a true believer might have filed a new case seeking an emergency stay of the inauguration. Instead… these guys plodded along with their lawsuits aimed at removing Obama’s name from the November ballot, or disqualifying electors or stopping certification of the electoral vote by various secretaries of state.
“it seems to me that in many ways these lawyers may be knowingly drafting their pleadings in a way that is more geared to impress the media or their supporters than to set forth a plausible cause of action”
That is correct. The run of the mill civil complaint consists of a set of factual allegations that make out the cause of action. These rambling paragraphs of legal argument are not normal complaints, but I’m sure that laypeople find them impressive.
In fact, the administration of the oath by Chief Justice Roberts is ceremonial — both times. President Obama executed a written oath.
I have a different opinion of Berg and Orly. That opinion would be “CON ARTISTS.”
Martin and Donofrio are just NUTS. And Donofrio may, in my opinion, have a drug problem. Andy Martin needs to be on drugs. Donofrio did not ask for donations as I recall?
But, Berg and Orly–“con artists” or “old fashioned crooks.” And, I agree that they also like to be in front of the public.
The “followers” who do start to question are either told to “shut up”, their questions are deleted or monitored or banned completely.
Anyway, that is just my own personal opinion regarding the bunch. I’m not sure about their legal skills. Based upon what we think we know about Orly as a dentist, I would say she might be incompetent whereas Berg might be incompetent on purpose.? Here again, this is just my own personal opinion based upon the information I have so far.
Anyway, it was driving me nuts trying to find Orly’s “evidence” for the “foreign student allegation.” I could remember seeing on her blog but could not remember the context.
Orly and Martin are bigots. Not too sure about Berg and Donofrio. Donofrio needs to be in a treatment center and Martin in a psychiatric hospital. Again, all just my own personal opinions.
And, this layperson doesn’t find anything impressive about this bunch. LOL
It would seem to me that a Dentist (Orly) and an experienced lawyer (Berg) could earn many times the income from plying their trade, than they could possible get from a handful of donations on the Internet. I haven’t seen any numbers, of course, but I doubt it’s very much.
I guess until you had an accounting you would never know. However, it was reported that Hale paid Orly 10K to speak on Plains Radio. Factual? I have no idea whatsoever.
I bet you might be surprised how much money they collect in “donations.”
Dr. C.,
I was under the impression, false perhaps, that Orly and Berg were providing their services for these cases “pro bono.” ?????????
I think there was a point last August when standing could have been established, based on the DNC certification of nomination. See: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9656064/DNC-Obama-Hawaii-Cert-2008
I think an action for declaratory relief could have been brought by Berg as a member of the Democratic party (preferably joined by a delegate, but surely he could have found a disgruntled Hillary delegate to sign on) — challenging the specific statement that the candidates were legally qualified.
For declaratory relief you just have to allege that an actual dispute or disagreement has arisen — so the mere allegation that there were claims that Obama’s birth certificate was might have been enough, and an action against the *party* by a member of that party about who they nominate might have had a chance. The action would not have been against Obama, but against the party – or perhaps the Democrats who signed that certification. (so it might have been Berg v. Pelosi)
I think that a declaratory relief action based on the asserted “controversy” about Obama’s place of birth could possibly have survived a motion to dismiss, and might have resulted Obama’s birth certificate being produced in court along with testimony from a Hawaiian custodian of records.
The problem is that the actual paper COLB that is already posted online would have sufficed. Once the authenticity of that document was established, the court would have treated it as prima facie evidence of Obama’s time and place of birth, and declared him to be a natural born citizen over the age of 35, and duly qualified to be President.
I don’t think that’s what Berg wanted. All of his stuff about Indonesia wouldn’t have been considered simply because its impossible for a US-born child to lose citizenship by living abroad. (Berg either knows that or he’s an idiot — that simply is not reasonably subject to dispute).
I think Berg’s original goal was to muddy the waters before the election, hoping to defeat Obama. So getting kicked out of court served his purposes better than going to court and losing.
Bogus, The rumour I heard was that Ed Hale collected the donations that were earmarked for Stephen Pidgeon. Orly took the money and gave to Pidgeon. Again. That’s all hearsay.
Have you guys seen this?
http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=325
“Yes To Democracy” is Run by “Obama Thugs”