Is the absence of evidence the evidence of absence?
That is the argument that raged here for weeks with a commenter called WAYK. Because no evidence was known confirming the parent’s address appearing in birth announcements of Barack Obama, the argument was made that the address was a lie, meaning the information provided on the Birth Certificate was a lie, meaning the entire birth certificate had been impeached.
In order for an argument from lack of evidence to proceed, one must first document a diligent search for the evidence and that evidence one would expect to find is unreasonably absent. In the case of WAYK’s argument, that diligence had not been performed.
Now, the diligence has been performed, and the results published in WorldNetDaily. The evidence, from contemporary directories, shows that Ann Dunham was living with her parents, who were renting the property at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway. I am usually the last person to cite WorldNetDaily, but when they have documentation to go along with their stories, I accept it. Evidence is evidence.
Polk directory for the Dunhams
Polk Directory, Obama's mother
Slowly, step by step, the evidence trickles in, allowing us to know what’s on the long form birth certificate, without actually seeing it.
Considering the fact that WND also verified last year the Certificate President Obama posted on his fight the smears site during the campaign as authentic, as well. WND has proven his natural born status, mothers address verifying the announcements and his colb as authentic, case closed. Thanks WND.
Ya know, they really hurt their “journalistic” credibility by contradicting themselves. Or they would, if they were journalists or had any credibility whatsoever.
strikefighterxxi:
And you Deathers hurt your own credibility by your constant lies and misinformation to try to help an ineligible office holder to tear this country apart.
Of course you’d never admit what your motives are, would you??? We;ll now see a spate of misinformation about this and the latest Kenyan BC video from the Deathers as they frantically try to obfuscate things.
Of course, they COULD be honest and just call for the man to prove his eligibility …
Since he has already proven it with THE document that Hawaii issues when one requests an official, certified copy of ones birth certificate ( ie accepted by every state for a drivers license, the State Dept for a passport, the DOD for millitary enlistment, etc) I’d say (and anyone with any sense would say, including the courts) he’s proven it, and done more than any previous President or candidate for President has done.
Adrianinflorida:
You Deathers need to learn to read more carefully. The spin on this somehow being “proof” is complete nonsense.
In fact the entire effort you twerps proffer that the BC means something is ridiculous since the REAL issue is the man’s eligibility to hold the office he now occupies … and neither he (nor you) have ever been able to show that.
The 14th Amendment and Wong Kim Ark are meaningless in that sort of evidence.
Adrianinflorida, rarely have I seen it put so succinctly.
No, JTX, he’s proven his place of birth. He was born in Hawaii. All you have left is a very minority opinion of one clause of the U.S. Constitution, that wouldn’t be upheld in any court, provided you can get past the issue of Standing.
jtx and his crowd have their heads up their asses. Keep it there, asshole.
Deather, twerp, Enabler, I liked it better when we were the flying monkey brigade.
it seems that jtx is really good at one thing, proving that he is an idiot. That’s all he does, and he does it well. jtx, the liar who claimed he was a judge is still stuck on groundhog day with his idiotic rants. What a miserable life this poor idiot must have.
The birthers’ just keep digging a deeper hole to get out of, trouble is, they never will get out of it. Delusion is a powerful thing
I know. Apparently, I’m a Wing Commander in the Flying Monkey Squadron.
Seriously though. About the only thing that changes in JTX’s posts is the insults he uses for us. His talking points and “evidence” never seem to change.
Since Obama supporters seem to believe that Obama has proven his eligibility indirectly without his birth certificate, then surely no one can object to Obama’s releasing his birth certificate.
Why is there so much FEAR among Obama’s supporters about releasing the birth certificate?
Why is Obama AFRAID to release his birth certificate?
“Why is Obama AFRAID to release his birth certificate?”
it was released a long time ago, Obama released the only BC that Hawaii currently supplies, also his birth in Hawaii was confirmed by Hawaii Dept of Health, catch up will you. (or go back to WND)
Oh for God’s sake. He released a legally acceptable document certified by the State of Hawaii that shows he was born August 4, 1961 in Honoluly, Hawaii.
But here are my questions:
Why won’t you birthers accept any of the evidence put forward? What about Obama are you afraid of? Why won’t you just come out and say that you don’t want a black man in the White House? Why do you subscribe to a conspiracy that requires so many people over so long a time across apparently several countries that, as such, negates its possibility? Why don’t you people ever come up with new material, instead of rehashing the same bullsh*t over and over and over?
Speaking of that, here’s the editor’s note where WND throws their experts under the bus to save face.
“Editor’s note: WND’s investigation into the certification of live birth did not include inspecting the actual document, but only asking experts to evaluate the online image. Those experts, therefore, could not “prove” the document’s authenticity. The experts told WND merely that many of the forgery claims made against the image were inconclusive or falsified, leaving them no evidence that would cast doubt on the image’s authenticity.)”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214
Any “birther” who accepts the evidence is not a “birther” any more, so rejecting all the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii is a defining characteristic of a birther.
A birther who does accept the evidence goes home quietly.
Constitutionalist, we actually believe in following the Constitution.
The Constitution prescribes that Congress has the power of confirming the Eligibility of the President. Congress did this in January of 2009. The Electoral College also has this responsibility. They did this when they voted for him.
Why didn’t one single Congressman object to his election, if there was any sort of issue with his eligibility?
Obama presented proof of his eligibility, Constitutionalist. We just believe in actually following the constitution, instead of seeing reactionary right-wing lunatics wanting to disregard the election of a black man, and say, “It didn’t really happen.”
Oh, and if any lawsuit ever gets past the standing claim, all Barack Obama has to do is present the paper behind this image to prove beyond any legal doubt that he was actually born in Hawaii.
You can view it here: http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_2.jpg
It’s been authenticated by the Hawaii Department of Health, declaring it a “valid Hawaii state birth certificate.”
Why is it so hard for you to accept what your eyes and your brain is telling you.
I don’t object to Obama releasing it (if he wants to). I don’t object to him not releasing it either, Constitutionalist.
Furthermore, if Obama did actually release it, he’s basically saying that the documentation that the Hawaii Department of Health, State Department, Department of Defense, every State DMV, the Social Security Administration, and every single other Federal Agency says is adequate to prove the place of birth isn’t adequate to prove his place of birth.
He’s proven his place of birth. There is absolutely no information on the so-called long-form that has anything to do with his eligibility, that isn’t already proven by the Certification of Live Birth.
Fear, afraid?
Get real. The fear is only in your imagination, along with the idea that there are any reasonable doubts.
Poor JTX, his ‘case’ seems to have unraveled. Now all that is left is an opinion which runs counter to history, legal precendent and fact. That his opinion will never gain access to the courts due to constitutional constraints is unfortunate but the case against our and his President has slowly been shown to be lacking in facts.
Ain’t that a bummer.
Born in Hawaii, on US soil, ergo:
Natural born Citizen
QED
With all the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, you birthers still want him to show you more. It’s an attitude that’s as old as the South, Constitutionalist: the black man always needs to show more identification. How long, how long until y’all leave the 1850s behind?
Is Barack Obama a runaway slave? He has to show his complete papers, or that concern will linger.
it’s projection, a common characteristic of right wingers, they project a lot. (ex: libs are afraid of Palin), they slap each other on the back with such zingers. really pathetic.
The only people tearing this country apart, jtx, are those who cannot accept the outcome of an election. This has become an all too familiar pattern in this country. That is where danger lies. Why do I continue on here,jtx? In good part because this needs to stop. And stop now. The election was lost friend. Creating ficiton about Obama’s citizenship status changes nothing. That is what puts this country and its future in jeopardy. He was born in Hawaii, to an American Mother and an African Father. He is a Natural Born Citizen.
One of the funniest birfer fantasies is that there are desperate strategy meetings in the White House figuring out how to combat the birfers.
1st and foremost I am no Obama supporter. Did not vote for him nor would I ever considered voting for him because his view of how govt should work does not align with mine.2nd, I did not vote for McCain either since his view of how govt should work does not align with mine!
All that aside, when making a accusation against someone,be it a elected public ofgfice holder or Joe Smoe down the street, the party making the accusation has to show provable verifiable evidence to prove their accussation.
Just because the one you accuse does not answer your questions does not mean they are guilty. You know, the 5th amendment to the US Constitution, Bill Of Rights.
So if you think just because YOU accuse the President or anyone else of a criminal act and they won’t give evidence back to you to help you prove your accusation, then YOU are not sincere about how much you act like you uphold and adhere to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights!
I could acuse YOU of being a illegal drug smuggler without any evidence to prove it and if YOU did not prove to me, to my satisfaction your innocent then I could go away saying I proved my accusation! Which on its face, with that kind of warped thinking would make me out to be a damm complete moron!
Let’s get REAL about this whole issue of the BC. I can promise you 95% of the backers of this without evidence accusation are neo-conservative supporters who supported Bush and McCain and who must have supported all the unconstitutional bullshit laws that were past from 2001 to 2004. I am sure they supported the so-called patriot act(100% un-patriotic act) military commissions act, Fisa act, all the CIA secret prisons, torture of prisoners……ect ect ect.
That is the main thing that pisses me off about the who issue because the supporters of the whole BC issue do not, REPEAT….DO NOT, have a sincere love for the US Constitution!
That aside neither does Obama have a political view of the Constitution any better than Bush, because correct me if i am wrong. Have the Illegal war in Iraq stopped and the troops called back home? Have the war criminal who started the Illegal war in Iraq been brought to justice? Has any of the unconstitutional laws past under the Bush administration from 2001 to 2004 been rescinded? Or even spoken about? Far as I can tell Obama is continuing a lot of the same policies Bush set in stone!
If people really want good honest constitutional govt, they need to get out of this false left/right political group think because from where I am sitting the Democracts & Republicans act like a damm tag team against the American people or at the very least Good Cop/Bad Cop. Thing is the same policies keep rolling on decade after decade!
Thanks for your honst comment.
1. You are being unfair to Obama concerning the unconstitutional laws Bush (may have enacted), It took Bush 8years to pass & make the situation the way he left it, Obama has only being in office for just a few months & cant get in & just rescind all the bad immediately esp when he won just over 50% of the vote meaning some 40% supported those bad laws
2. Just before Bush left he agreed with the iraqis to an extension of the troops stay in iraq 4 more than 16months (Obama was targeting getting them out in 16months), a new govt doesnt just rescind & renege on agreements his precedessor entered into with a foreign govt, he has to tread in such a way that make the govt of the USA changes express agreement with other govt just when a president changes.
Good change takes time bad change is usually bad
“Slowly, step by step, the evidence trickles in, allowing us to know what’s on the long form birth certificate, without actually seeing it.”
It’s almost ironic you would even say that. As if, here you and all the Obots are just as anxious as anyone to see the long form, but CAN’T SAY THAT, because it would go against your whole stance you’ve taken that what has been shown is just fine, and the crazies that want to see more are …well crazy. YET, you said it….slowly the information Trickles In ALLOWING us to KNOW… Call me crazy, but it sure would be faster to SEE the long one and stop the Trickling.
Then again, I say to myself…I say “Self, if they did that, what would Obots have to whine about?” then I say “Self, a LOT of stuff, cuz as long as Knucklehead wakes up every day in the White House, and still has his voice, he’s gonna give evidence to the world stupidity CAN go far, and the left will continue to defend it”
WOW, that’s a brilliant answer rC. I’ve never heard THAT before. Absolutely Brilliant! You should write a book, or maybe start your own website. You could name it “Broken Records”
it’s the truth, unlike your misuse of the word truth!
Oh, I would like to see the long form, I just think it would be a bad idea politically for Obama to release it. Maybe after 2016.
He may show it during his re-election campaign. It won’t silence his critics, though. They’ll just scream ‘NBC requires both parents be citizens.’
Personally, I think he should make the birthers squirm. They’re just a mob of malcontents, turning over rocks looking for a conspiracy. Goebbels would be proud.
So grandma, no deceased, RIP published the address, so what? Anything to cover up her daughter’s mess.
You seem to be upset that Obama is after all, natural born…
Why?
My main question is this:
This conspiracy would require collusion dating back to his birth almost fifty years ago.
Why, when the only privilege, benefit or office denied a naturalized or non-native born citizen is that of the presidency, would they have bother with all this folderol? Did the secret actors behind this coup d’etat know, even all those years ago, that Barack Obama was destined for the White House?
But of course no one could have made such a prediction. The theory would be simply that the fraud was committed to make Barack Obama a citizen–that Stanley Ann had every intention of returning to Hawaii to have the baby but was prevented from returning in time.
The problems with the theory are manifold.
1. There is no trace of evidence that any of it happened.
2. Making an arduous multi-day air trip with a mother near delivery would be irresponsible, against doctor’s advice, and possibly against airline regulations.
3. Traveling to Africa where Obama Sr. already had a wife is, to say the least, bizarre
4. Where did they get the money for the trip?
5. If they were going to travel to Africa to meet the family, wouldn’t it make far more sense to wait until the baby was born in order for the grandparents to see him?
6. Why would they go to Africa to confront grandfather Obama who was violently opposed to the marriage in the first place.
7. There are significant technical barriers to the feasibility of the trip detailed by other comments on this blog.
8. Why would they go to such trouble to create US citizenship, and then turn around and be happy to throw it away in Indonesia?
9. The fact that demonstrably fake Kenyan birth certificates keep popping up, as well as doctored tape recordings, doesn’t this hurt the credibility of those making up such stories?
If you needed to go past #1, you’re probably a birther.
But my point is this: His mother was an American citizen, as were his grandparents. Even if he were not granted citizenship based on this, he could have earned it very quickly and easily, even if he were, say, adopted.
The only constitutional proscription on non-natural born citizens involves the office of the President.
The only reason to perpetrate such a conspiracy would be to install a sleeper agent, pre-programmed in the womb by British operatives in Kenya, in the highest office in the land…