Someone describing himself as Lt. Col Terry Lakin, an Army physician, states in a YouTube video that he is refusing his second deployment to Afghanistan to force the President to prove his eligibility. Lakin appears to be saying that the 1961 birth certificate with the attendant’s signature is sufficient for him.
I feel sorry for Lakin if his story is true, because he has been deluded about the validity of the documentation candidate Obama provided freely way back in June of 2008. An Army physician ought to know better, I supposed and perhaps I shouldn’t see him as a victim of the misinformation campaign, led by the smear web sites we all know.
He comes across as sensible and sincere, just woefully misinformed. I would just ask him, if he has been in the military for 13 years, why it started being concerned about documentation for Obama, and not for others before him?
We’ll be watching to see if any litigation results.
Another excuse because he doesn’t want to go to war!
You can’t really be serious!
To Dr. C:
‘Someone’? Did you mean to say ‘An American describing himself as….’
“He comes across as sensible and sincere” – do you think any American that has a different opinion than yourself is an idiot? I guessing that only people that agree with your way of thinking are the only sensible and sincere people in this Nation? WOW! How tolerant you are – not.
“just woefully misinformed” – Or to rephrase – he has a different opinion on which he stands his conviction. You know – like your conviction that Obama is a NBC.
People – There is NO ruling on this matter. There are past court rulings which might apply one way or another, but NO court has heard this case on it merits. Until then, ALL Americans must keep an open mind that it could go either way.
Just because YOU and the majority that visit this website think he is a NBC does NOT make it a FACT. It is simply a majority opinion here on this site – and as we saw with health care, the majority opinion in America means squat these days.
Nonsense… Describing ignorance as ‘open mind’ baffles the mind.
And you are wrong, there is a court who has ruled this case on its merit and found President Obama to qualify as a natural born citizen under the legal precedents of the US Supreme Court.
BadFiction has a good write-up of Lakin’s story. He as been told repeatedly by the Army that the president’s eligibility is not an issue that Lakin can challenge, but Lakin persists. A true birther–regulations and evidence mean nothing.
It seems to me that Dr. C is showing a proper mixture of respect and sympathy for the man who says he is Lt. Col. Terry Lakin. Events will show that he has no legal standing, and he’ll be deployed. The Hawaii birth certificate for President Obama that has been publicly released is 100% valid and legal, and completely dispositive, and that’s all there is to it. The President is not going to undermine Hawaii’s modernized public health records system in order to satisfy the curiosity of someone who has no standing to demand specific obscure personal records held by Hawaii.
There was one on January 20, 2009. Were you on Mars that day?
There is a ruling on this case, by the Army. Lakin has no standing to challenge the president’s eligibility. Under Army regulations, Lakin can file a complaint against a commanding officer, which he has done. But under Army regulations, the president is not defined as Lakin’s commanding officer because he does not have GCM authority over Lakin. End of story, at least until the dishonorable discharge.
Isn’t this an awful lot like Rhodes vs. MacDonald, the case which got Orly Taitz her $20,000 fine and which got the Captain an express ticket to Iraq?
It’s more like Cook v Good where Cook volunteered to be deployed.
It’s the same to all the other lawsuits in that the plaintiff lacks standing.
This would be different if the Army courtmartialed Lakin. Then there would be a trial, although it might be hard to shoehorn the irrelevancy of Obama’s birth certificate into such a case. There’s no suggestion that Lakin has an attorney yet, and perhaps he will get some sensible advice when he gets one.
It will be close to impossible to challenge the constitutionality of the President when facing a court martial. It’s totally irrelevant.
nbc:
I was drawn to make a similar comparison between Major Cook and Lt. Col. Lakin. While Cook was a reservist working in the private sector who sought deployment hoping it would give him standing, Lakin is an active duty officer with an admirable service record. Moreover, if what YellowDog reports is accurate, Lakin did what Cook never tried–to seek remedy through Army channels.
Although I think he’s made a terrible error in judgment, he seems, as Dr. C. observes, a cut above those who have made similar arguments.
Scott Brown:“He comes across as sensible and sincere” – do you think any American that has a different opinion than yourself is an idiot? I guessing that only people that agree with your way of thinking are the only sensible and sincere people in this Nation? WOW! How tolerant you are – not.
I really don’t see what you’re getting at here. It seems like you are saying that everybody who holds Lakin’s view must be sensible and sincere. I have found the same views may be held by people who sound sensible and sincere, rabid and angry, mentally incompetent, who appear to be lying, and who make crazy and outlandish claims. I was commenting on Lakin’s demeanor and delivery. What I was trying to say was that Lakin was an effective spokesperson for his views.
Maybe you should look at what I actually write instead of what you imagine I would write.
sad. i doubt that there will be a court marshall but……. i predict that the army and ltc. lakin will “agree” to go their separate ways ( without lakin receiving all the benefits due his position ). not a great way to end a career.
i’m curious how lakin would react if a soldier under his command refused an order based solely on an internet rumor.
I am astonished to hear you, of all people, describing this person as an American. Have you seen any documentation to prove that he’s an American?
It seems I was under the flawed impression that Lakin had volunteered. The things I learn…
American Patriot Foundation, Inc.
1101 Thirtieth Street, N.W., Suite 500
Washington, D.C. 20007
202-448-5032
American Patriot Foundation uses the same address as Amb. Otto Reich.
http://ottoreich.com/www.ottoreichassociates.com/Contact_Us.html
Otto Juan Reich is President of Otto Reich Associates, LLC, of Washington, DC, a consulting firm which provides international government relations, trade and investment advice to US and multinational clients.
In 2001, President George W. Bush selected Ambassador Reich to be the Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs, reporting to Secretary of State Colin Powell, where he served until 2002. He then became President Bush’s Special Envoy for Western Hemisphere Initiatives, reporting to Dr. Condoleezza Rice in the National Security Council. He left government service in June 2004.
Something else I noted in my write up that I want to keep pointing out.
The party line from the birthers have been for a while that a “Certificate of Live Birth” is not a real, valid birth certificate. Miki Booth has even said in campaigns that Obama’s COLB is “what they give someone who doesn’t have a real birth certificate.”
Yet if you look at the copy of Lakin’s “birth certificate” he provides, it clearly states “Certificate of Live Birth” – in other words, it’s a COLB.
Double standard much??
Patrick McKinnion: Obama’s COLB is “what they give someone who doesn’t have a real birth certificate.”
I parse it as disingenuous double talk. Let’s say I want to apply for a drivers license and I don’t have a birth certificate. I have one those hospital souvenirs, but the drivers license office says I have to get a real one from the state. I go down to the health department and pay them some money and they print me one. So what they printed was for “someone who doesn’t have a real birth certificate”. It seems to me that this is the typical smear used to turn something normal in to something unseemly. The point where they try to mislead folks is to suggest that Obama’s COLB is different from any other standard birth certificate Hawaii would have printed in 2007.
*Nods* Agreement. That and the whole splitting hairs over a “CertificatE” verses a “CertificatION” thing.
Lakin – or Margaret Hemenway, since that seems to be who is handling Lakin’s PR – is being dishonest by pretending his Colorado COLB is somehow more legit than Obama’s because it has a little bit more information. Since in the eyes of the law, they’re both of equal weight.
If the Army paid for this guy’s medical education, I think he should be required to repay the Army.
Here’s an odd thought –
Since it looks like the Hemenway’s are up to their neck in this,it seems to me what we might be looking at is an attempt to replay “Hollister v ‘Soetoro'”, without Berg and with an active duty person rather than retired.
Having an active duty plaintiff would be more immediate than a retired “subject to recall” plaintiff. And the sanctions were upheld on the 22nd of March – a day before “safeguardourconstitution.com” was registered.
We’ve already seen among Lakin’s “proof” some recycled Berg claims – the Anabaptist minister’s claim, the edited Sarah Obama “interview”, among others. We’re not seeing the de Vattelist stuff (never Berg’s thing), nor are we seeing the Indonesian citizenship thing (yet), but we’re seeing a lot of other stuff that’s a carry over from Berg’s cases. And the “report” from Farah’s Western Journalism Center” is a lot of Berg rehash (DHHL, Polarik’s claims, etc.), but little from other birthers – and Hollister v ‘Soetoro’ was mostly Berg legal DNA even during the appeals (while Hemenway commented on Dr. Orly’s cases, he never really used any of her claims – and despite Dr. Orly’s statements, it doesn’t seem like any partnership between the two of them happened. However, at the time Dr. Orly was courting active duty personnel for her cases).
The more I look at this, the more I’m seeing an attempt to re-argue Hollister v ‘Soetoro’, but using an active duty plaintiff rather than a retired one. If that’s the case, Hemenway may be opening himself up to further sanctions down the road.
Two attorneys have had to show cause why their filings were not frivolous. One was fined $20,000!
Frivolous doesn’t mean wrong, Scott. Here’s how one court defined the term:
Crain v. Commissioner, 737 F.2d 1417, 1418 (5th Cir. 1984).
69 million people voted for Obama who had promised to bring us health care reform, including a personal mandate. McCain had his own ideas for health care reform, which, apparently, did not convince a majority of Americans.
Elections have consequences, Scott. Gallup polls do not.
This is what is puzzling me. This guy is a Lt Col, he’s consorting with a former high-level Dept. of State guy. It seems impossible that they don’t know that the issue of Obama’s eligibility is irrelevant, and that the court martial therefore won’t let him present one word of it. Is this just an attempt to make himself into a birther martyr? If so, how cynical. I guess we’ll know if this turns into a lengthy series of youtube videos and press releases relating the predictable progress of this trial as if it were shocking and outrageous.
But this time it seems to be heading for a court martial. I am not a lawyer, I know little enough about civilian courts and less about courts martial, but I know the rules are different, and I believe the tolerance for BS is less, and I don’t think they are as open to public scrutiny. If I have it right, it will be harder for them to turn a court martial trial into a political circus.
Interesting, but I don’t think it is significant. If you google “1101 30th nw suite 500” you get any number of random organizations and businesses, including what I think is at the core, “DC Business Centers” (proudly serving Starbucks Coffee in all our locations). In other words, it’s a mail drop.
The military needs to remove this doctor from military service with a convenience-of-the-government discharge. That will open up a billet for a real officer and avoid the circus of a courts martial.
Actually, I say bring on the Court Martial!
Obama has provided two things regarding his place of birth.
1. Jack
2. Shit
and Jack left town a long time ago.
Obama’s father Barack sr. was born in kenya and was a british subject.
So regardless of whether obama himself was born in the USA or not, he does NOT meet the Natural Born Citizen requirement and is therefore ILLEGAL.
joe, getting into the spirit of the day:
you forgot to say: “april fools!”
joe: So regardless of whether obama himself was born in the USA or not, he does NOT meet the Natural Born Citizen requirement and is therefore ILLEGAL.
Maybe you should finish high school before you declare yourself a constitutional lawyer.
Similarly to all 43 other Presidents then because they never provided anything either…I challenge you to show us a BC or COLB of any President other than Obama. Come on. You are so confident that Obama has provided “jack shit” this should be easy for you.
Really? So you can show all of us where exactly the term Natural Born Citizen is defined which proves that the President is “illegal”. Again you should be able to support your claim with some proof.
It’s what is known as a “virtual office.” DC Business Centers provides receptionists, collects mail, and has office space and conference rooms which can be used on an as-needed basis. Other than that, the three dozen or more businesses using the address have nothing in common.
http://www.houroffice.com/georgetown.html
Joe says:
So regardless of whether obama himself was born in the USA or not, he does NOT meet the Natural Born Citizen requirement and is therefore ILLEGAL.
It is common knowledge that Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen. Chief Justice Roberts nevertheless administered the oath of office to Obama. Apparently you know something about the Constitution which Chief Justice Roberts doesn’t know. I suggest that you get him on the horn ASAP!
maybe that’s what Jack left town to look for.
I assume this is just another lunatic?
I don’t know what the US military rules are, but here, in Upper Frogistan, if you can certainly file a complaint about your superior officer with the hierarchy, in no way, no how, can you refuse to serve.
(My dad, my two grand-dads, my uncle and my godfather were in the French army or the navy, so I have a great deal of sympathy for the military.)
I hope this guy gets cashiered without a pension.
Except he provided his COLB which shows him born in the US. But you already have concluded that it does not matter where he was born… He must be ineligible, even though there is no reasoned argument provided.
Probably because none exists.
Ah Joe, this must be another April Fools joke post you’re making. LOL!
No discussion on this matter would be complete without noting the connection between Major Kook and Lakin. If we are to believe Kook’s postings on the cesspool Free Republic, the two are friends and have discussed these matters extensively. So Lakin is hardly some guy who came up with this on his own.
Here are my challenges to the birthers:
1. Find me a single US court that has ever said that a COLB that has been certified was not sufficient to prove citizenship or identity.
2. Find me a single non-birther source written in the past 100 years that says that a person born to one legal alien parent (and one citizen parent) is not eligible for the Presidency.
I don’t want any BS about how Vattel was used extensively by the founders, how the losing side in WKA said so, etc.
One court case rejecting a COLB, and one modern source suggesting Obama is not eligible.
You guys keep telling us how obvious this is. So, these requests should be trivially easy to find.
An easier way to resolve the matter would be for Obama to present his Form DSP-11,his Form SS-5 (which every American who works has filled out), his complete college transcripts and his Oath of Renunciation.
Then you can really rub it in the Constitutionalists’ faces for being homophobic.
Nothing would resolve this or Obama’s release of his COLB would have resolved everything.
Fool (RomanS 1:22)
Sven, again with the imaginary documents. How about Sven for once supply proof that any of his fantasy has ever occured. Here is a easy challenge for Sven. Please provide us with some evidence that any minor has ever renounced their US citizenship. Secondly please show us where college transacripts are required for being President? You show us either of those things and then you can rub it in our faces. However we KNOW that you can’t.
Good point…This is just another way to try and further the birther cause. What is surprising is that this guy is willing to throw away is career for those nutcases….
More interesting is the write up by the Post and Fail….
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/03/31/army-ltc-faces-probable-court-martial-by-challenging-obamas-eligibility/
More specifically they seem to think that he was going to volunteer to be deployed…So I wonder if he was actually ordered or volunteered to go. That might be an important distinction. Either way the birther fools seem to somehow think that this will allow them to get the “long form birth certificate”….
“Lakin had first considered voluntarily deploying in the fall of 2008 when he learned about the questions surrounding Obama’s eligibility to serve as president and commander-in-chief. He halted his plans to deploy and in March 2009, submitted a Section 138 complaint through his chain of command. The reply he received on June 11, 2009 was apparently insufficient, as he filed another Section 138 complaint against General George Casey in November 2009. Lakin had also sought answers from his congressman and U.S. senators.”
By the way I wonder what happened with Bigfoot Ed Hale and his so called stolen birth certificate that we could all view for a $100.00 donation. Things have been quiet.
black lion, only moments away from the answer:
long story short: he gave it to “a us congressman” who reneged on his promise to impeach the usurper. so ed has decided to sell it privately without revealing it publicly and then retire.
Can we say SUCKERS
http://pub44.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3764075825&frmid=6712&msgid=1115467&cmd=show
Ed Hales own words
After much thought and pain. I have decided to sell this document. So I am sorry but money talks and bull**** walks. One of the reason for my decision is like what the American Grand Jury said about me. These people have done nothing to help the cause of removing Obama. The show tonight will be nothing but music and I will not talk about it. Obama has won and it is over. I will take my money and ride off into the sunset. So after tonight show, it will just be Joe Saebi. Goodbye and goodluck
Actually, just realized it wasn’t Ed Hale who posted it; Ed just posts under “Ed” – not his whole name
from John PUMA
so we’ll have to see.
[Ed Hale?]: I have decided to sell this document.
Why doesn’t he sell it to World Net Daily? Kill two birds with one rotten egg.
1. The people harrassing the president over his citizenship are not “Constitutionalists.”The proper term for them is “nuts.”
2. Why would President Obama need to take some “Oath of Renunciation?” He is a natural born citizen with nothing to renounce.
3. Homophobia? Huh?
It can be hard to sell something that doesn’t exist. It only works when something is invisible, like salvation or sex appeal.
“I hope this guy gets cashiered without a pension.”
And that is exactly what is going to happen. See Cook.
I am praying Orly is his attorney.
“he has been deluded about the validity of the documentation candidate Obama provided freely way back in June of 2008”
Deluded? How do you explain this:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105347
This lady has original birth certificates and shows them plainly from the same week Obama was born. Also, Obama porvided nothing, the Hawaii government has no record of the COLB being requested, so who requested it? What’s the name of the person?
Funny how these twins certs are not nearly identical to the COLB that Obama produced? This is rock solid evidence that someone produced a fake COLB and put it online and expects people to think that a photoshopped digital picture online is real. Try taking a picture of your birth cert (shown to ssomeone on on a webpage) and try for for anything to see if that works. Good luck, but thats what we’re being asked to do.
So who’s deluded or being deluded now? Lets actually examine the issue for real in a court and see how it come out–really examining the evidence. The result of what is missing from the COLB will be interesting….
I dont see my comment.. where did it go?
My comment was not registered…so I’ll summarize and repost…
Why doesn’t Obama’s birth cert look like this?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105347
Who’s being deluded? This question has not been truly answered…we’re supposed to believe a digital image on a web page somewhere? To believe THAT would indeed be deluded… Why will no court rule on the objective original evidence on this, and not on a million technicalities…
Hey guy, if you’re going to have a discussion website, would you please allow discussions to occur? Two of my comments have been wiped. Asking a THIRD TIME, why is it when a lady with twins born hours within Obama shows her twins COLB certificates they look nothing like the COLB that Obama submitted? There’s a real delusion for ya…
why is it when a lady with twins born hours within Obama shows her twins COLB certificates they look nothing like the COLB that Obama submitted? There’s a real delusion for ya…
not really. the COLB posted for the nordyke twins was the official copy released in 1961. obama requested ( and received ) an official copy in 2007. the format had changed. no big mystery here.
Jonathan- no idea. And not bothered by it. Whether the woman is making it up, or whether its true and there is some discrepancy in how BC were registered, I don’t care.
The facts we know:
President Obama has published- and made availible for review- his COLB.
The Hawaiian Dept of Health has confirmed that President Obama was born in Hawaii.
That is beyond good enough for me. I never even knew where George Bush was born- and never saw his COLB.
Jonathan,
This is another dead-horse issue that has been looked into and found to have nothing relevant to it.
Read and learn:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/01/nordyke-twins-birth-announcement-found/
Oh, and this has never been a censored blog. Unless you were originally trying to post with profanity or something else that would trip moderation, comments by all are posted here.
There is NO censorship on this blog.
Because the documents you saw where copies of the long form. However, you explain to us why their numbers were close to Obama’s?
Educate yourself before you allow yourself to look foolish (Romans 1:22)
Jonathan: Two of my comments have been wiped.
For some reason the third-party spam filter used by this site flagged your comments (and two from ballantine) as spam. They have now been marked “not spam” and approved. You folks see very little spam in the comments here, largely because of the spam filter that has correctly caught 22,875 spam comments, comments trying to sell everything from naked photos of celebrities to work at home scams. We’ve had 35,000 real comments and 22,875 spam comments. I think filtering out that much garbage is worth the occasional delay in the appearance of a few legitimate comments.
Jonathan: Why doesn’t Obama’s birth cert look like this?
Certainly anyone who works with birth certificates, and anyone that has been a long-time reader of this blog would know that there is nothing odd going on here. In 1961, the hospital typed up the form for Mrs. Nordyke’s twins and sent it in to the state. Prior to the State of Hawaii going all-electronic with their vital records data, you could order a copy of that hospital form. When Hawaii vital statistics went paperless, they keyed the information from the paper certificate into a computer database, and that information is what they print on forms today (and in 2007 when the Obama COLB was printed).
One of the very first articles on this web site from December of 2008 is a discussion of the claims that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery-part-1/
Lots of states have done exactly the same thing. This is just the way the world is. If Mrs. Nordyke ordered a copy of birth certificates for her twins today, they would have exactly the same COLB format we see from President Obama.
Jonathan: This lady has original birth certificates and shows them plainly from the same week Obama was born. Also, Obama porvided nothing, the Hawaii government has no record of the COLB being requested, so who requested it? What’s the name of the person?
Her name is Nordyke. The difference between these birth certificates and the published certificate for President Obama is not in their origination, but when the were printed. All Hawaiian birth certificates now look like Obama’s. They don’t photocopy the old forms any more, but issue certified copies from their computer database.
To say that someone would create a forgery of a document without even knowing what it is supposed to look like strains credulity. Oh, well, err, there was Lucas Smith. Never mind.
Black Lion says:
More specifically they seem to think that he was going to volunteer to be deployed…So I wonder if he was actually ordered or volunteered to go.
This thing isn’t passing the smell test. I still haven’t seen any evidence that Lakin has actually received orders, much less disobeyed them. This could be a variation on the Cook scam, wherein he has an “out” which would allow him to have any deployment orders rescinded if he doesn’t want to go.
You do realize that the CoLb’s of the Nordykes are actually not in use anymore? Haven’t been in use since 1980 when they went to a different type of form. And then in 1990 they adopted the short form that is the same as Obama’s.
The type of Certificate as seen by the Nordykes is now not an official or recognized COLB; its a Hospital form, a novelty. All information about births are now submitted ELECTRONICALLY from the hospital to the Depart of Health. There are no forms that are filled out that is faxed or sent to the DoH; all the information from the form is just typed up into a database and sent to the DoH. Has been that way since the late 90’s, then since 2000 when all records went digital.
Before commenting on how things are done in Hawaii, you may want to ACTUALLY talk to someone from Hawaii.
Hawaii COLB Request Instructions:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7605/hawaiicolbinstructions.jpg
Hawaii COLB Request Form:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/186/hawaiicolbform.jpg
My Hawaii COLB as requested in 2006 since my parents lost my long form when I was 2 years old (my personal information redacted of course):
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7040/hawaiicolb.jpg
Oh and want to know another thing? I’ve used this particular card over the past 30+ years to: get my passport, my drivers license, as proof of identification for work, and for taxes (my personal information redacted of course):
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/395/hawaiicolbbirthregistra.jpg
They no longer give out the above card (it was done away with in the 80’s), but it IS STILL a form of a copy of Birth Record that is accepted as a VALID document. IT has LESS information than the COLB (no parental information), yet I could, if I wanted to, use it to establish citizenship and run for POTUS.
Not so smart are you?
When Im in Hawaii the week of the 16th, I’ll head over to the Public Library to see if they have old Department of Health forms on file. Sometimes they’ll archive past forms to see a history of how much has changed.
No guarantees of course that they do, but it doesn’t hurt to try.
More lies it seems. That is not what the Hawaiian government said.
Fool (Romans 1:22)
There is nothing missing from the COLB.
Deluded you are indeed. Or at least according to the Bible, a Fool (Romans 1:22)
Agreed….I think this is some sort of birther scam to try and see if they can somehow find a judge foolish enough to ignore case law and allow them to subpoena the Presidential COLB….
bullshit you can still get a copy of a birth certificate
i’ve always been curious about this birther complaint. there were 169million registered voters in the US for the 2008 election. to give one minute ( not including travel time ) to each voter to personally inspect the COLB would take over 321 years.
Jonathan,
In your post you raise the issue of delusional thinking, suggesting that those who question your position on President Obama’s legitimacy are deluded. To be deluded means to assert that a belief is true despite convincing evidence to the contrary. In order to maintain a false belief, a deluded person will use erroneous information and fallacious reasoning to challenge the veracity of established facts. A review of your post illustrates that you use erroneous information and fallacious reasoning.
Examine, first, your sentence: “Also, Obama porvided (sic) nothing, the Hawaii government has no record of the COLB being requested, so who requested it?” You are asserting that Barack Obama never asked Hawaii’s Department of Health to provide an official record of his birth. Aside from the fact that your claim is demonstrably false (an official record, certified by the state of Hawaii, has been available for nearly two years; in addition, correspondence from Hawaii’s Department of Health demonstrates that a request was made and fulfilled), you offer no evidence to support your claim.
In a following sentence, you aver that because a Hawaiian birth certificate from 1961 is not identical to a birth record provided by Hawaii in 2008, the 2008 birth record must be false. Your reasoning is untenable for two reasons: 1) you provide no evidence to support your conclusion 2) your conclusion relies on excluding facts that would disprove it. Perhaps an analogous argument, as problematic as your own, will demonstrate the flaws in your reasoning: “A flag of the United States from 1955 has forty-eight stars, while another flag has fifty stars. We all know that in 1955, the United States was made up of only 48 states; therefore, the fifty-star flag must be a forgery.”
Another example of fallacious reasoning occurs when you evoke conspiratorial thinking in order to reject established facts. Referring to a birth record that was requested by Barack Obama, supplied and certified by the state of Hawaii, and accepted as authentic by every Secretary of State; by the Electoral College and John McCain; by the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the Supreme Court, you claim, without providing evidence, that this birth record has been “photoshopped” (sic) and is therefore “fake.” The only way one could accept your claim is to deny objective evidence and trust in hearsay.
As you can see Jonathan, your post relies on bad data and bad reasoning to uphold an erroneous claim, and those are key indicators of delusional thinking.
And once again the poor birthers can’t spell.
Lakin’s video starts out by questioning the “elegibility.”
Difference between USSR Communist media and USA “mainstream media”
In Russia government make media say what they want – even if lie.
In USA “mainstream media” try make government what they want – even if lie..
…..eventually they become same thing?!
Old Russian saying You can tell same lie 1000 time but not change truth!
I Igor produce Obama Birth Certificate at http://www.igormarxo.org
Compare Obama Care vs Igor Care at Obama Care vs Igor Care
chufho: you can still get a copy of a birth certificate
And you know this how? But even if it were possible to get a copy, what’s the difference whether it’s a photoprinted copy of a microfilm copy or a laser printed certified copy of the data?
No birther has ever given a coherent explanation of what’s wrong with the COLB as proof of the fact of birth in the United States.
US Citizen: Lakin’s video starts out by questioning the “elegibility.”Lakin’s video starts out by questioning the “elegibility.”
So Lakin is arguing that he can’t be sent to war because his commander in chief’s handwriting isn’t legible?
Because it shows President Obama as born on US soil, something which some birthers cannot and will not accept.
nbc:
I think you’ve summed up the essential truth of this entire issue!
Igor:
As my grandmother from Bialystok would say, “Marbe dvorim, marbe shtus—vos vintsiker m’ret, gezinter iz.”
Stars and Stripes paper reports on Lakin.
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=69120
AS I suspected, Lakin hasn’t yet disobeyed any orders, and I haven’t been able to find any evidence that he has even received orders to deploy.
It will be interesting to see if the Army takes any action.
That’s pretty darn funny Igor
I actually have the greatest rsepect for Lt Col Lankin. He is willing to go to the brig for his principles
He has already risked his life for his country…including those of us writing on this blog
Why can’t Obmaba do such a simple thing such as show his birth certificate
If he can’t find it, maybe he should use the one Igor made!
For those whose Yiddish is a leetle bit rusty
A lot of words, a lot of foolishness—the less you talk, the healthier.
He has and Lakin still, foolishly believes that refusing to follow orders is going to cause further discovery into Obama’s eligibility.
Romans 1:22…
There is no legal foundation for such beliefs. I respect Lakin for being willing to go to jail for his beliefs, however foolish they may be. Let’s just hope that the military shows some mercy and understanding…
Loss of all pay and allowances, demotion to Major, and a dishonorable discharge would be too good for this former respected soldier….All Larkin is showing us is that he is willing to allow his hatred to put him in a position to make a bad decision…
Obama released his birth certificate in June of 2008.
It’s a certified, signed and sealed official birth certificate from the State if Hawaii and no bullshit nit picking makes that go away. His birth announcement was in TWO Honolulu newspapers back in 1961. The State Department of Health even has a letter from the director ON ITS WEB SITE stating positively that Obama was born in Hawaii.
Larkin’s objection is just plain stupid. Whether his actions are due mental defect or willful maliciousness, I will not try to guess. Another military doctor went jihadist and killed a bunch of other soldiers. That example demonstrates that we have no guarantee that just because someone has served honorably in the military that they are immune from mental illness or secret lives as extremists.
This is just the beginning of the story and the details of Larkin’s background have not yet been examined.
Thank you. My grandmother was also from Bialystok, and I was going to provide a translation.
Look at the bright side. Retired Lt. Col’s cost us $46K a year(some deserve it, some don’t). Plus COLA and medical care.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/05/airforce_fehrenbach_052009w/
A court martial will get this legal genius off the taxpayer’s back and we save millions.
Best of all, it opens up a job for a real Military Doctor!
Any website/email address/blogger that uses the phrase “patriot” ….
Hold on to your wallet.
Elimination of DADT shook a few people up and Lakin is the response to remove the problem.
So, you’re saying that Lakin is not just a foolish birther, but a mentally unstable homophobe too, eh?
There still is no reason why the Nordyke twins cert would be so full of information and the Obama laser-printed colb lacks so much information…the rest of the information is still available, Obama is just hiding it at the cost of $2M+ I would allege. Plus I highly doubt the original birth certificate said African as fathers race. Something is being hidden intentionally (hospital name, etc)–why?
I’m not claiming to be wise, just asking for a full disclosure without obstruction to prove natural-born citizenship per the Constitution–which was never done. Natural-born citizenship also depends on BOTH of Obama’s parents being US citizens more so than him being born in the USA, and he fails this test. Also, how did he get to Indonesia under the name Barry Soetoro, US citizens were not allowed passage to Indonesia at that time I had read. When did his name change from Soetoro to Obama and back again? Also, who EXACTLY got that COLB? There is nobody (no name or official request receipt) on record as officially receiving and or requesting that COLB for Obama–so who got it, or rather, in the absence of this simple evidence, who photoshopped it?
Alot of things dont add up still, but for some reason Obama wants to spend 2 million dollars rather than just divulge all the details… why? Looks pretty fishy, and he’s not going to get a pass on this like he gets a pass on so much other stuff…
Thanks for explaining that, I appreciate that.
Ok u win both his parents are not NBC !!! what do want 2 do about it ??????
You also say “and he’s not going to get a pass on this like he gets a pass on so much other stuff…” ok he wont get a pass, what are u goin 2 do about it ????
How i wish u birthers will actually read the law & cases, then u wont be filled with such false knowledge !!!
The saddest part in all this birther stuffs is that its being lead by some “lawyers” who haven’t read the law but are only projecting their wishes on the law. Becos mediocre lawyers are making statements foolish pple are following them into the dark & not gaining anything, that seems 2 b why quite a number of birthers think they can practice law on there own !!!
So Jon what are going 2 do as u’ve established beyond reasonable doubt that Obama is NBC ?????
Jonathan: Plus I highly doubt the original birth certificate said African as fathers race.
You see, this is the difference between you and me. I see a certified copy of a birth certificate (computer printed) with the seal of the state of Hawaii on it, and Alvin Onaka’s (head of vital statistics) signature stamp on it, and the statement “prima facie evidence” on the front, and that leads me to a very, very high level of confidence (and I must say reasonably so!) that the original says exactly “African” on it. Why wouldn’t it? What would anyone have to gain by putting the wrong value on it, particularly an unusual value that calls attention to itself?
Indeed, the only reason I might doubt the accuracy of “African” for race is that I work with vital statistics data all the time (not from Hawaii), and I know that data quality is not quite 100%. However, the fact that African is a little unusual makes is more likely that it accurate because someone would have to have actually typed it rather than selecting a “check box” that is easier to fumble finger.
If you think “African” is an impossible value, then I must correct you. I have personally seen a fair number of “African” parent race values in vital statistics records. The father’s race is self declared, meaning it is recorded as whatever the father says it is. I wrote an article on this site demonstrating that the phrase “African race” was in use by Africans in 1961.
Jonathan: Natural-born citizenship also depends on BOTH of Obama’s parents being US citizens
You have been misled. The fact that you cannot find a single high school civics book that says this should give you hint that this whole idea is a rumor campaign and nothing more. It is as much a myth as the $2M+ legal bills.
Wow… It’s like you took every failed birther talking point and distilled them all into one single post.
Literally every sentence you posted has been debunked in great detail.
Jonathan: There still is no reason why the Nordyke twins cert would be so full of information and the Obama laser-printed colb lacks so much information
The reason is that the State of Hawaii, when designing their new computer system chose the list of items printed. It has nothing to do with Obama. Nordyke would get exactly the same set of information if she ordered a new certificate for her twins. In particular the information on the new certificates is that which is necessary to support the purposes which birth certificates are used: specifically for proving the facts of birth, and most often for getting a passport (note the similarity between the COLB and passport requirements). Some items, like handwritten signatures, would be difficult to transcribe into a computer system as they are often illegible.
Another point, Alvin Onaka’s signature is on a block that says that the document he is signing is a true and accurate copy or abstract of the records on file at the DOH. He could not have signed that if the “long form” said something different than “African.” It would no longer be a true and accurate copy or abstract.
What is even worse is that Johnny can’t even get his birther lies straight. He now claims that US citizens were not allowed passage to Indonesia? Wow. You would think that the birthers would at least look stuff up and makes sure whatever they say makes at least some sense or has some truth. My challenge to john is for him to find an article or something that shows that US citizens were not allowed passage to Indonesia in the 1960’s. Secondly John needs to find some admissible proof that the President ever went by the name Barry Soetero in the US. The other obvious lies were addressed by others in this thread but those kind of stood out….
Obama gave the keynote speech at the 2006 Democratic National Convention. It was watched by something like 50 million people. In that speech he talked about his father, who was a Kenyan student.
He wrote about his Kenyan father in his autobiography.
His father’s being Kenyan is part of Obama’s biography and life-story and is perhaps one of the most well-known facts about the man. Probably more Americans can tell you that Obama’s father was from Kenya than can tell you which state Obama was a Senator of.
Despite everyone in the nation knowing that Obama’s dad was Kenyan, 69 million people voted for him. That’s 53% of the votes. Clinton governed for 8 years never having received more than 49%, Bush lost the popular vote, and barely topped 50% in 2004.
Also, do you realize that the $2 million figure is for the entire legal budget of the campaign? McCain also spent about $2 million for his legal bills. Do you think he was hiding something, too? Or, perhaps, when you raise and spend $750 million, in a federally regulated election, you might have to pay some lawyers to make sure you’re doing so in compliance with the federal election laws!
Amazing how many times a person can be completely wrong in a single post. I think the only disproven birther lies he missed was the “Obama’s granny said he was born in Kenya” and perhaps a bogus Kenyan birth certificate or two.
Straight from wikipedia:
Janice Okubo, state Department of Health spokeswoman, elaborated on state policy for the release of vital records: “If someone from Obama’s campaign gave us permission in person and presented some kind of verification that he or she was Obama’s designee, we could release the vital record.”
So why wont Obama just release it? There is no name on record (who received his COLB? Name?) as having released his certificate. This alone notes simply that the Birth Certificate “vital record” was not released… So he received alot of votes, it doesn’t matter how many votes he received if hes not qualified, and as you know, there was alot of vote-tampering by ACORN and the New Black Panthers, and I doubt that when people voted for “Hope and Change”, they expected communism and horribly crushing debt(govt cant even pay for all social security bills much less the rest of govt with actual tax revenue), but got a Manchurian Candidate and a hard left liberal wrapped in the media blather that “hes a centrist”. Rubbish. Please, Who’s to the left of him politically in an federally elected position? Are there even 5 to the left of him politically in a federally elected position, much less the “centrist half to the left” of him that the term centrist would denote? Enjoy your new civilian army (and the army of 16,ooo irs agents) from that healthcare bill, too, and the other trojan horses in it of socialism. Was that the hope and change you were hoping for? Will we be saying Heil Obama soon, too? He also called for hope and change, you know…
Godwin’s law says that the longer an internet discussion goes on, the odds of someone referring to Hitler approaches 1. Thanks for verifying that, doofus. Hitler was male, so was George W. Bush! Oh noes!
The COLB has Alvin Onaka’s signature on the back, attesting that it is a true and accurate copy or abstract of the records on file. So, it doesn’t matter who received the COLB, or who requested it, or what.
Janice has also verified that she has personally viewed the records and affirms that Obama was born in Hawaii. I guess you want a personalized copy of his birth certificate you can hang on the wall? She’s looked at the records and he was born in Hawaii. She was appointed by the Republican governor of Hawaii.
So, we know he was born in Hawaii. We have always known that his father was Kenyan.
69 million people voted for Obama (and even if there was vote tampering – and the only people so far to go to jail for vote fraud have been Republicans – there wasn’t 10 million votes tampered with), knowing his father was a non-citizen, doofus, so your eligibility argument is that some super-secret eligibility requirement nobody ever knew about is invoked just for the black man. Yeah, that makes sense. In fact, doofus, it is a requirement that has never been mentioned in 112 years by any scholar or lawyer until it was mentioned by Mario and Leo, who, surprise, don’t like Obama.
Oh, and I will enjoy the healthcare bill. My children cannot be denied for health insurance if they get a condition qualifying as “pre-existing.” It has closed the stupid “donut-hole” in Medicare Part D. It will save the government money.
I hope you also enjoy the $60 billion saved by ending the stupid subsidies in student lending.
Did we get what we voted for? Politifact compiled a list of 500 Obama campaign promises. One year into his presidency, he’s made good on 105 of those promises – one of the biggest was comprehensive health care reform. If you’d been awake at all during the Presidential campaign, you would know that an insurance mandate was a key part of that promise. In fact, initially, Obama was against the mandate, and Hillary’s support for it forced him to support it as well.
[Note: The health care reform package was disliked by liberals because: 1) it was not a single-payer system; 2) it did not have a public option. So, when you insist that Obama is a radical liberal, well, you’re speaking out of your butt!]
Finally, doofus, Obama’s not liberal because he’s ineligible. He’s not liberal because his father was Kenyan. You don’t like him or his politics. Don’t vote for him. Quit lying about $2 million spent to hide the obvious fact that he has a Kenyan dad! Quit pretending that this unconstitutional attack on the President has anything to do with patriotism or protecting the nation. It’s your political disagreement.
Doofus.
The same Wiki article also says, “The Obama campaign released a 2007 certified copy of his short form birth certificate (in this instance referred to as a “Certification of Live Birth”) that states Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961. Frequent arguments of those questioning Obama’s eligibility are that he has not released a photocopy of his “original” birth certificate, and that the use of the term “certification of live birth” on the document means it is not equivalent to one’s “birth certificate”. These arguments have been debunked numerous times by media investigations, every judicial forum that has addressed the matter, and Hawaiian government officials, a consensus of whom have concluded that the certificate released by the Obama campaign is indeed his official birth certificate. ”
So why would he bother to respond to a collection of idiots that have no interest in reality, and will never be satisfied? Oh, and there is no evidence of vote tampering. Get over it, you lost. Not only did you lose, but you lost by the widest margin in 20 years.
16,000 new IRS Agents? Wildly Inaccurate!
FactCheck: “Wildly inaccurate” claim “stems from a partisan analysis based on guesswork and false assumptions, and compounded by outright misrepresentation.” In a March 30 article, FactCheck.org answered the question, “Will the IRS hire 16,500 new agents to enforce the health care law?” by stating, “No. The law requires the IRS mostly to hand out tax credits, not collect penalties. The claim of 16,500 new agents stems from a partisan analysis based on guesswork and false assumptions, and compounded by outright misrepresentation.” FactCheck further called the claim “wildly inaccurate.”
Big surprise that a guy who thinks Obama spent his campaign’s entire legal budget on defending birther suits that cannot get past the motion to dismiss phase would quote wildly inaccurate claims about new IRS agents.
Jonathan wrote …
Indonesia is a non-Convention adoption country. BHO’s name was changed to Barry Soetoro after Stanley Ann and Lolo were married with a provisional adoption agreement.
More on Inter-country adoptions for non-convention countries is here.
Straight from Hawaii:
“It’s crazy,” said Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health. “I don’t think anything is ever going to satisfy them.”
Okubo, who said that she gets weekly questions from Obama Birthers’ that are “more like threats,” explained that the certificate of live birth reproduced by Obama’s campaign should have debunked the conspiracy theories. “If you were born in Bali, for example,” Okubo explained, “you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate. But it’s become very clear that it doesn’t matter what I say. The people who are questioning this bring up all these implausible scenarios. What if the physician lied? What if the state lied? It’s just become an urban legend at this point.”
http://washingtonindependent.com/51489/birther-movement-picks-up-steam
HONOLULU – State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen, and therefore meets a key constitutional requirement for being president.
Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she hoped to end lingering rumors about Obama’s birthplace.
“I … have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,” she said in a brief statement. “I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32180625/
Obama has no reason to release anything other than has already been released, because (as Janice Okubo said) nothing is ever going to satisfy you.
Who’s to the left of him politically in an federally elected position?
Just about every member of the Progressive Caucus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus
Enjoy your new civilian army (and the army of 16,ooo irs agents) from that healthcare bill, too, and the other trojan horses in it of socialism.
You birthers are so gullible that you believe any lie which is fed to you. The IRS isn’t hiring any “army” of agents. The individual mandate doesn’t even go into effect until 2014! And there are no criminal penalties for not complying, so why would the IRS need to double its force of agents?
It’s all right here, if you are interested in learning the truth:
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
Proof? Sven you have made this ridiculous claim numerous times and have been asked to supply one piece of proof that the President was ever adopted. And secondly how such a fictional adoption could negate the fact that the President was born in HI, making him a natural born citizen. However you continue to never produce any kind of evidence. All you do is come up with wild and crazy scenarios that stretches the boundaries of common sense to test out theories for your new book. These so called theories are so way out there that even Orly goes “WTF” when she reads them…..
Also Sven, can you give us the procedures for adoptions for non-convention countries that was in effect from 1967-1971?
I assume you can produce the provisional adoption agreement?
Dick’s logic:
If A then B
If B then C
If C then D
If D then E
We know D, therefore Obama is A!
Shorter Dick:
We know [current procedure] so that’s how Obama [actually did the procedure].
You can make your own Dick argument by filling in the above.
We know this is how they adopt children in Indonesia, so Obama was adopted.
We know this is how they do sex-changes, so Obama had a sex change.
We know this is how they do revocations, so I want to see Obama’s revocation of citizenship documents.
I tend to rely on the kindness of strangers …
Allen v Soetoro – Status Report, defendants anticipate searches for Soetoro and Dunham documents to be complete on or before June 30, 2010.
I’m giddy with excitement.
Wow Jonathan- thats a whole lot of paranoia all in one place.
Not that I expect you will listen, but here are some responses to your fears:
a) Why won’t he release it? He did release his certified BC- the only Presidential candidate who has ever made one public. And immediately afterwards you people called it a fake, even after being verified. He is under no obligation to satisfy the whims of every wingnut out there, and I support him in ignoring you. You have already said you don’t believe he is eligible even if he does produce his original BC, so why should he bother?
b) The number of votes matters because all of us knew his father was a Kenyan citizen and all of us remembered our civics lessons and realized he was eligible. The number of votes matters because you are essentially arguing that you are somehow better informed than most of the voters in the United States.
c) Vote tampering? you have something besides your fears of a black President to support any claim of wide spread vote tampering?
d) “I doubt that when people voted for “Hope and Change”, they expected communism”
I think your definition of communism is at odds with the majority of Americans. President Obama is not a Communist.
“and horribly crushing debt(govt cant even pay for all social security bills much less the rest of govt with actual tax revenue)”
I will admit I when I voted for Obama, I didn’t expect the economy to go into a total meltdown before he took office. You do realize the ‘horribly crushing debt” started under Bush- and certainly I don’t think the people who voted for Bush expected him to run up the debt like he did. And the economic stimulas packages started under Bush, and were continued- and expanded by Obama. Last I looked our economy was rebounding- which going back 15 months was not certain without the stimulas package. History will tell whether the stimulas package is judged to have worked or not.
But the debt is a real issue- and neither party really wants to address it. Nor do we voters. Reducing our debt will require pain that neither politicians or voters seem to be willing to deal with. It is not simply an Obama issue.
d)Centrist etc- Obama’s voting record was well known before the election. But I think in office he has been clearly not hard left- if he was he would have insisted on a single payer health system- instead he was pragmatic and took it out. He has angered the left with proposing nuclear power plants and offshore oil drilling. I could find Senators and Congressmen who are more to the left than President Obama, but does it really matter? You think he is way left, but the voters are still happier with him than they are with either the Democratic or Republican congress.
The Heil Obama remark shows your extreme paranoia. I really just don’t get how you folk can think that he is simultaniously a fascist, communist and a muslim, when they are antithetical to each other.
So are we. And when no evidence of adoption is found, what will you say then? That you were wrong about it? Or will you do the usual birther dance and claim that it was scrubbed by the Obama secret police….
Apparently you didn’t read the Joint Status Report very well as it notes that all requests pertaining to President Obama are dismissed. The documents being searched in Allen v. Soetoro would not give you anything to support the laundry list of unsupported claims you have made thus far.
Let me just say Form I-600.
And when no I-600 form shows up, Dick, you’ll be here to apologize for your BS?
You have no reason to hope for one to show up, except your wild fantasies.
Apparently, an I-600 is a petition to classify an orphan as an immediate relative.
No evidence that Obama was ever an orphan. How could he be an orphan, as his parents were still alive.
You’re really going to have to plug these obvious plot holes, Dick, if you plan on selling your screen-play or novel idea.
DickWhitman says:
Allen v Soetoro – Status Report, defendants anticipate searches for Soetoro and Dunham documents to be complete on or before June 30, 2010. I’m giddy with excitement.
I’m afraid that you’re going to have to rein in your giddiness.
Here’s the catch.
1. If there are records of someone named Barry Soetoro, they can’t be released without his signed authorization unless Allen can prove that Soetoro is dead. And if Soetoro is dead, he can’t be Barack Obama.
2. If your fantasy is true and there are records of a Barry Soetoro and he is indeed Barack Obama, the records still can’t be produced because the court has already ruled that Allen has no right to see Obama’s records.
3. That leaves the records of Stanley Ann Dunham. As we know, Christopher Strunk received Dunham’s records last year, and we haven’t heard a peep from Strunk about those records since he received them. The obvious conclusion is that there is nothing in Dunham’s records which help the birthers.
So guess what? You lose again.
For the purposes of an inter-country adoption, an orphan is defined as a child whose citizen parent has remarried or will remarry and the biological parent has abandoned the child emotionally and financially.
I posted a link earlier. Did you read it?
DickWhitman: I posted a link earlier. Did you read it?
I stopped reading your stuff ages ago.
The I-600 is filed by Dunham and Lolo Soetoro. Lolo Soetoro and Dunham are dead.
Any information derived from Dunham and Lolo Soetoro’s records are admissible because they derivative and indirect.
And no, I don’t have a link. You’ll just have to trust me.
And if you did read my messages, then you would’ve banned me a long time ago.
Jonathan: Also, how did he get to Indonesia under the name Barry Soetoro, US citizens were not allowed passage to Indonesia at that time I had read.
I think you are confusing the lie about travel to Pakistan with travel to Indonesia. If US Citizens couldn’t travel to Indonesia, how did Obama’s mother travel there?
Here’s my article about the Pakistan lie.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obama-traveled-to-pakistan-on-an-indonesian-passport/
Dickie dear,
We laugh AT you…you do provide a rather pathetic but mildly amusing light entertainment element and as such why would Dr C ban you.
You provide minor amusement and a excellent example of Birther fail so please feel free to continue to post irrelevent, inane, inconsequential and disjointed commentary
The I-600 is filed by Dunham and Lolo Soetoro. Lolo Soetoro and Dunham are dead.
Wrong again. Form I-600 is filled out by the adoptive parents, not by the surviving birth parent. If there was a Form I-600 filed for Obama, it would have been done by his grandparents, not by his mother. Allen didn’t request any records pertaining to Obama’s grandmother, so another of your fantasies goes up in smoke.
Besides, Allen’s Amended Complaint doesn’t ask for production of any adoption records; he only requested the passport records of Lolo Soetoro and Stanley Ann Dunham (his request for Obama’s records has been dismissed).
Not to mention that there is no record that Form I-600 even existed at the time Obama returned to the U.S. from Indonesia.
And no, I don’t have a link. You’ll just have to trust me.
Considering that you have been wrong on just about everything you have written on this forum, I’ll take a pass on the trust thing.
But wait!! Orly Taitz is a “constitutional attorney.” She said so herself and that’s what she’s running as Sec of State of CA on! So she’s an expert, right??
DickWhitman: And if you did read my messages, then you would’ve banned me a long time ago.
I think you’re sort of “grandfathered” in. But I do fast forward your comments and those replying to you. I’m just not interested.
Allen updated Phil at tRSoL and stated, “The search by the DHS turned up nothing on Stanley ANN? But the DOS has a lot of documents, as for Lolo Soetoro they will be releasing everything.”
The DoS has numerous documents filed by Stanley Ann and Lolo to take Barry out of the country to complete the adoption.
Once it’s verified BHO II was, in fact, Barry Soetoro, Indonesian National, it will open up questions as to his eligibility.
Can a native-born citizen renounce his U.S. Citizenship and then return to the U.S. and remain eligible for POTUS?
Dickie dear,
Even if, for the sake of argument alone, there was agreement on this non existent “adoption”
To quote your very own words…..
Can a native-born citizen renounce his U.S. Citizenship and then return to the U.S. and remain eligible for POTUS?
So, you finally agree that Obama IS a native/natural born citizen.
From this all your other cack falls away.
1. Obama, even if he was adopted, would not have received Indonesian citizenship as he was too old. The only citizenship he would have had would have been his (agreed by you) US NBC
2. Adoption does NOT signify, infer or provide ANY mechanism of refutation of ones original citizenship. Dependant upon the laws of the adopters country you MAY be granted secondary citizenship via naturalization…..but not in the case of Indonesia. See 1 above
3. Renunciation of ones citizenship (for the US) requires a very specific, well documented, very paper intensive, witnessed and recorded series of actions. These actions will ONLY be initiated, accepted and processed if the individual meets certain age, soundness of mind and ability to understand consequences levels. A 6 year old turning up at a consulate in Indonesia in the 1970’s fails spectacularly on all counts.
4. Dual nationality, granted to an individual by another country via any mechanism does not and cannot affect your primary citizenship. Your primary citizenship is the domain of the laws and legislation of said country. If such a thing could occur, it would allow any country in the world to kick a running candidate or sitting president out of office at the signing of a decree granting citizenship.
5. Dual nationality (in the US) if provided (not granted) via any mechanism at birth is not a bar to the privileges or rights of an NBC. See Wong et al passim
So,
Even if your non existent, wild fantasy of adoption was true it would have precisely zero effect on the original (and agreed by you) status of Obama as an NBC with the rights to run and be elected as Prez.
Come on Dickie, disagree (with facts)…..please……8-)
Sven,
No matter how many times you ask the same question, the answer remains the same.
You ask:
“The DoS has numerous documents filed by Stanley Ann and Lolo to take Barry out of the country to complete the adoption.”
What documents? How could the DoS have documents of something that never happened? No one has ever stated that Obama was adopted nor has proof ever be submitted to support his claim. It is amazing that you are so intent on being a troll that you will repeat the same ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality.
“Once it’s verified BHO II was, in fact, Barry Soetoro, Indonesian National, it will open up questions as to his eligibility.”
In what way? First of all how will it be proven that Obama is this fictional character? DO you have some documents that support your contention? We know you don’t but I had to ask anyway. Secondly in the wildly implausable scenario tha it did happen, how could that affect citizenship. No matter how many time you link to useless documents, you have never shown any minor that have renounced nor have you proved that Obama ever renounced.
“Can a native-born citizen renounce his U.S. Citizenship and then return to the U.S. and remain eligible for POTUS?”
Irrelevant. This is one of those leading questions that assumes facts not in evidence. You need to show us specific case law that shows someone that was a natural born citizen that renounced their citizenship and later on requested it to be reinstated. Since this has never happened you would be hard pressed to have this theory ever heard.
So again all we have is the same wild fiction that you have been posting for years. We all know that you are just trolling and looking to rile people up. We accept that. But at least if you are going to do that come up with something that is plausible. Imaginary adoptions and non-existent renounciations is not the way to go. It just makes you look foolish. Kind of like your original refugee consular passport theory or your diplomatic passport theory.
The bottom line is that you know you are grasping at straws and making things up as you go along. You also don’t have any proof that anything you write is remotely true. And most of all we all on this blog know that. We don’t ban you and we respond to you because you make it too easy with your ridiculous theories. So in other words continue to keep going. As you know we are all eagerly awaiting the next chapter in your future NY Times worst seller in fiction known as “Barack and the Pirates”….
Did your link prove that Obama was adopted? No. Did it give any evidence that might lead a reasonable observer to conclude that Obama had been adopted? No.
So, no, I didn’t read your link.
This is a typical exchange with Sven. First he claims that all will be revealed by an I-600 form, which as far as I can tell didn’t even exist when Obama was a child. And if he had bothered to actually look at an I-600 form, he would have seen that it is filled out by the adoptive parent, not by a birth parent. When this is pointed out to him, he drops the I-600 and now claims that the passport records of Stanley Ann and Lolo are somehow going to prove that Obama became an Indonesian citizen and renounced his U.S. citizenship when he was six or seven years old.
If Sven had any experience with getting documents from the government he would know that nothing Allen receives pursuant to his FOIL requests will say anything about Obama. Even if Obama is mentioned in the documents (and I can’t see why he would, since passport records don’t include anything about who you’re traveling with), that information would be redacted from the copies Allen will receive. That’s one reason why FOIL requests take so long to be completed – each document has to be reviewed to make sure that information which is not subject to disclosure is redacted.
President Obama *did* that “simple thing” and showed his birth certificate. The fact that it constitutes insufficient evidence of NBC for you & others is a personal problem, not a Constitutional or legal issue of public significance.
And, sadly, because of persons as Lakin and others who make up their own facts and law, dehumanizing while deAmericanizing Obama, he risks his life in service to his country every minute of every day.
It seem lots of you say Obama released his birth certificate. He actually realased “it” twice one with out a “raised seal”, then after it was noted there was no seal the second came out with a “raised seal” and folded….minor detail in production.
You can see them both as “proof” of Obama’s BC at: http://igormarxo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=74
Silly Igor. There is a seal in both. You just have to look closely.
Why would Obama have forged the “short form” if he was going to forge something?
The 1961 document would actually have been easier to forge, since it used technology that was 47 years old!
Conspiracy theories always require the perpetrators to be evil geniuses, but incredibly stupid. In real life, the evil geniuses don’t say, “Frickin’ sharkes with frickin’ lasers on their heads!”
yep! from a printer’s/forger’s point of view the ’61 would be much easier to fake than the COLB. but………… the birthers believe that the hawaiian DoH is in on the scam. the DoH could simply print out a modern COLB. if this were true than the document wouldn’t be a forgery but an official statement with false information. but……. it’s got a registration number on it and we know, from the birthers own research, that the number corresponds with those born on that weekend ( thank you nordyke twins ). if this were not obama’s original number than it would belong to someone born on oahu ( or in the state of hawaii ) that same weekend. obama would have to do something to make sure this person never came forward with that evidence…….. something sinister. but….. there’s the fact of the newspaper birth announcements from 1961. the birthers claim that obama’s grandmother placed the notices and the newspaper ( the advertiser ) claims they recieved the info from the state. either way a notice would have had to have been placed without any corresponding official document ( in this fake-COLB scenario ).
so to recap: in 1961 obama’s grandmother uses her underworld connections to place a birth announcement in two honolulu news papers for spits-and-giggles. in 2007 obama threatens, bribes or romances the entire hawaiian DoH into giving him a COLB. then he kills a 47year old hawaiian born person and destroys all evidence of their existence.
release the fembots !!!!!!
BatGuano (et al): from a printer’s/forger’s point of view the 61 would be much easier to fake than the COLB.
I completely disagree on this point.
If Hawaii still issued long forms, what would it be? It would be a document consisting of a pre-printed form with typed content added, signatures added, a machine number added, rubber-stamped dates added all photocopied onto security paper to which a certifying stamp and state seal is added. Now to forge such a document (and assuming that Obama wasn’t born in a Honolulu hospital), the forger would have to duplicate the pre-printed form including fonts, locate some signatures of a registrar and a physician that were accurate and belonged to no one who could repudiate the document, have to duplicate the rubber date stamp, the numbering machine and the typewriter.
To make a fake long form, all one need do is laser print something using standard printer fonts onto security paper to which a certifying stamp and state seal is added. The only thing even remotely complicated is making the cross hatched border (which the long form doesn’t have).
As an officer he took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. He is virtually bound to follow the orders of his commanding officer, unless of course they are egregious(re Calley; Vietnam). If his unit is deployed and he doesn’t go then he should be Court Martialed pure and simple and anyone who refuses to Court Martial him should be likewise reprimanded for dereliction of duty. This is the military where all good men and women put their lives in the hands of the person next to them; there’s no room for politics. It’s his right to dissent as an American, but if he’s the hero people are making him out to be then he should be equally willing to accept the circumstances–I don’t want him in an organization I depend on to defend this country.
Gentlemen and girls,
Who of you has served in the US Military? I can not see why LtCol. does not have “standing” if he is questioning whether or not Obama really is his Commander in Chief.
Obama is not good for the USA.
KM
Ken Muir says:
Who of you has served in the US Military?
I did, during the Vietnam War.
I can not see why LtCol. does not have “standing” if he is questioning whether or not Obama really is his Commander in Chief.
It’s called the “de facto officer doctrine.” Even if Obama were found to be ineligible to be president, any orders which he issues while holding the office are still legal and valid. This doctrine was reiterated by the Supreme Court in Ryder v. United States (94-431), 515 U.S. 177 (1995), which coincidentally was a case involving a court-martial:
The de facto officer doctrine confers validity upon acts performed by a person acting under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person’s appointment or election to office is deficient. Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886). “The de facto doctrine springs from the fear of the chaos that would result from multiple and repetitious suits challenging every action taken by every official whose claim to office could be open to question, and seeks to protect the public by insuring the orderly functioning of the government despite technical defects in title to office.” 63A Am. Jur. 2d, Public Officers and Employees § 578, pp. 1080-1081 (1984)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-431.ZO.html
The only “standing” which Lakin has is that he will be standing at attention when he is sentenced at his court-martial.
Who of you has served in the US Military?
I was a civilian volunteer with the IDF, and I could not pick and choose what I was assigned. Got it?
And anyone who believes that Obama’s eligibility is relevant to Lakin’s court-martial should read this.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29930406/Lawful-Orders-The-Manual-for-Courts-Martial-and-the-Case-of-Lt-Col-Terrence-Lakin
Rickey;
I clicked your link and Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote, “We hold that the judges’ actions were not valid de facto,” at the end of the first paragraph.
Chief Justice Rehnquist continues with, “The doctrine has been relied upon by this Court in several cases involving challenges by criminal defendants to the authority of a judge who participated in some part of the proceedings leading to their conviction and sentence.”
In reversing the Appeals Court decision, Chief Justice Rehnquist points out the de facto Officer doctrine is not valid when a defendant claims a deficiency before the Officer executes his official duty. Each of the defendants in the Ball, Norton and McDowell cases used to justify the defacto officer doctrine claimed deficiency of the Officer after he executed his official duty.
SCOTUS ordered, “We therefore hold that the Court of Military Appeals erred in according de facto validity to the actions of the civilian judges of the Coast Guard Court of Military Review. Petitioner is entitled to a hearing before a properly appointed panel of that court. The judgment is reversed, and the case is remanded for proceedings consistent with this opinion.”
Since questions to Obama’s eligibility have been raised in many jurisdictions from many plaintiffs before was sworn in, the the de facto officer doctrine is not valid.
The point is not the specific case, but the doctrine.
The latest from Politico:
Army birther under investigation
By: Jen DiMascio
April 14, 2010 05:47 PM EDT
Lt. Col. Terry Lakin, an Army doctor who’s refusing to serve his second tour of duty in Afghanistan until he sees President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, is under investigation by the Army.
Lakin was supposed to report for duty on Monday at Ft. Campbell, Ky., to a unit deploying to Afghanistan. Instead, he reported to his brigade commander at the Pentagon.
Lakin will be assigned to duty at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, pending an investigation into whether he violated two provisions of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, said Army spokesman George Wright: missing the movement of a unit and violating an order.
Lakin’s brigade commander, Col. Gordon Roberts, read Lakin his Miranda rights and said the doctor was “about to be charged with serious crimes,” according to a press release from the American Patriot Foundation, a birther group coordinating Lakin’s legal defense fund.
Lakin’s decision not to deploy comes after he posted a YouTube video last month outlining his intention to “invite my own court martial” by demanding to see proof that Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States.
“The minimal invasion to any politician’s privacy from having to show an original, signed birth certificate is far less than the harms to our country by someone not qualified whose election would thus subvert the law and the truth,” Lakin said in the video.
If Lakin shows up for duty at Walter Reed, isn’t he violating his pledge to disobey all orders?