- Orly Taitz says Gen. Stanley McChrystal is a “”perfect plaintiff to expose Obama’s lack of legitimacy.” OC Weekly.
- Federal Judge Royce C. Lambert has refused a motion to reconsider dismissal of her quo warranto lawsuit, Taitz v Obama, in DC. OC Register.
- Obama’s Long-Form Birth Certificate Raises Troubling Questions. The Spoof.com.
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Royce Lamberth is Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, the court with jurisdiction on all federal quo warranto cases. In his denial of Taitz’s motion for reconsideration, he specifically answered whether Alan Keyes (or Gail Lightfoot) could bring a quo warranto action, writing:
And, as Lamberth previously noted when dismissing the case,
That’s a problem for the entire birther quo warranto strategy, because I rather doubt that President Obama will be nominating Leo Donofrio for U.S. Attorney or Mario Apuzzo for Attorney General.
Having no specific thread to put this, I will do so here. It concerns your quote of the day. You are reading Scalia’s comment to mean that “jus soli” equates to natural born citizenship status under the Constitution. How do you know that he meant that jus soli is the ONLY component? The context was that yes, jus soli is required for natural born citizenship status. But does the analysis stop there? It is certainly not clear from his words and in the context of the snippet. One could just as easily read that jus soli is required, but it is not the only requirement. There is a distinction. Justice Ginsberg was worried about the status of her grandson, who had been born to American citizens, but in Paris. The focus was on the jus soli aspect; being born to US citizens was already covered:
“My grandson was born in Paris of U.S. citizen parents. I had never considered him a naturalized citizen of the United States.”
Read the entire context.
Justice Antonin Scalia literally says, “That’s jus soli, isn’t it?”
Not just that it requires jus soli, but that it is jus soli.
That is why Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg later comes out and says that she considers her two grandchildren to be Natural Born Citizens, despite the fact that they were born in France.
The case is Nguyen v. INS.
And what Ruth Bader Ginsburg was talking about is basically that if you are born a citizen of the United States, you are a Natural Born Citizen. If you ask either Antonin Scalia, or Ruth Bader Ginsburg on whether or not someone born in the United States, but to non-citizen parents is a Natural Born Citizen, both of them will say “Absolutely.”
That is the reason that this case will never get to the Supreme Court. The Judicial Branch has already determined the definition of Natural Born Citizen. There is no debate among them. For the Supreme Court to take a case, 4 Justices have to vote in favor of hearing it. The Supreme Court gets somewhere around 10,000 cases submitted to them for appeal. They issue somewhere around 100 full opinions by the court.
So, the only way for them to hear a case is if there’s substancial arguments on both sides, or there’s a severe error that they want to reverse. So, since we do not have the former on the Natural Born Citizen argument, basically what would have to happen is a lower court (State Supreme Court or State Court of Appeals) would have to rule that someone born in the United States (and subject to the jurisdiction thereof) is not a Natural Born Citizen, and the Supreme Court takes up the opinion to overrule it. There is absolutely no possibility of that happening, since the entire judicial branch is in agreement that it doesn’t.
If it ever did get to the Supreme Court, it’ll be a 9-0 decision in favor of Barack Obama being a Natural Born Citizen, since he was born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
Now, as to Ruth Bader Ginsburg point, I’d expect a 9-0 decision declaring anybody born a citizen to be a Natural Born Citizen. I’m not so sure that it would be a 9-0, but I could see it being that way. Especially when we have the historical precedents of Charles Curtis being considered a Natural Born Citizen, despite the fact that he was not born in the United States. He was born in a territory of the United States, and not a state. Furthermore, we continually have case after case of Presidential Nominees being born outside the United States. John McCain being the most recent example.
Charo – the transcript is available here –
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2000/2000_99_2071/argument
There are a number of interesting quotes
Thus this exchange:
Ms Davis: “That… that’s correct, Your Honor.
Applying it to citizens and citizens at birth, would extend the plenary power doctrine beyond where it has ever been extended in the… in the past.”
Justice Scalia: “Well, that assumes the person is not an alien simply because Congress says the person shall be retroactively deemed a citizen.
But for constitutional purposes, it seems to me, as opposed to statutory purposes, whether the person is an alien or not should depend upon whether the person is a natural born citizen of the United States or whether citizenship must be conferred by Congress.”
Ms Davis: “Right.
Well, in fact, Your Honor, you mentioned natural born citizen, and many commentators believe that citizens at birth are deemed to be natural born citizens, so this is a category of citizenship that traditionally has had a different status than naturalized citizenship for many, many years, for centuries.”
It is hard to construe Justice Scalia’s comment as anything other then that there are only two types of citizens: natural born and naturalized.
In the context of the arguments, Ms. Davis is using the term “citizen at birth” to refer to child, born abroad to citizen parents.
.
From the OC Register article on Orly, I loved commenter #1’s statement that maybe Orly should sue Santa Claus next…LOL!
Every year, the Belgian post gets 200,000 letters addressed to Santa Claus. They all get answered -except those who have indicated Sint-Niklaas or Saint-Nicolas as destination town, which are sent on to that Flemish town or Walloon Village, where they have a special Santa Claus answering service. Since Orly does not know French or Dutch, but German is one of the languages she professes to know, she should send the letter of service to the Belgian post office, who will be able to answer in German.
Alternatively, she could get a professional translator (like me, I can translate from English or Russian) to send an apostilled translation of the service letter in Dutch or French. Whatever the language used, proper service will have to include a description of the identity of the person to be served.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sint-niklaas.be%2Fdiensten%2Findex.php%3Fpagename%3DStad%2520van%2520de%2520Sint%25202007%2520-%2520De%2520bib%2520van%2520Sint%2520en%2520Piet&sl=nl&tl=en
He literally says “that’s jus soli” then he literally says “It REQUIRES jus soli.”
I have read the whole transcript before and wondered why Justices Scalia and Ginsberg, never referred to any prior SC rulings when the discussion turned to the definition of a nbc, or why they weren’t just dismissive of the issue rather than questioning (for example, that’s just soli, isn’t it?) This is an argument I have made before and won’t rehash.
And why would Scalia waste time citing cases to support a fact that every competent lawyer in the country already knows? Philip J. Berg and Gary Kreep agree. Leo C. Donofrio himself admits he is trying to make new law!
I use these remarks from Scalia simply counter the ridiculous birther contention that “everybody knows” a natural born citizen must have citizen parents.
I didn’t imply that he should waste time citing a litany of cases. But Scalia was not as dismissive as you are. I wish he would have been.
Meaning, made himself more clear on the matter.
How does my presentation of a quote in the quote of the day, attached to no commentary, lead to a conclusion as to how I am “reading” it?
The quotes of the day are there primarily to issue challenges. I don’t provide hyperlinks on the quotes themselves, but searching the site for the quote will lead to the context, such as http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/09/supreme-court-justice-scalia-believes-natural-born-citizenship-is-jus-soli/ for this one.
Since McChyrstal was appointed to his position by Obama, I would think his resignation from that position wouldn’t be the best platform to raise the illegitimacy of the President.
The Supreme Court refused to hear Donofrio’s “case”. That means that <4 Justices saw any merit in those "arguments". Was it likely 0? My magic 8 ball says "yes". Scalia attended Obama's swearing in, as did all of the Justices. If he considered him an illegitimate President the proper thing to do would have been to be home sick.
If the birthers really, truly, want to know what the Supreme Court thinks, they can appeal Ankeny. Despite the supreme (pun intended) confidence they express on their web sites, they have not moved to do so. I believe the deadline is fast approaching. Doubtless, they will let it pass and then complain about how the courts are conspiring against them.
“If the birthers really, truly, want to know what the Supreme Court thinks, they can appeal Ankeny.”
I agree.
And since they haven’t appealed in the one case where standing was not an issue and where they lost on the “merits”, then I would say that their complaints about how they are being unfairly denied on the basis of standing ring hollow.
Speaking of McCrystal and his sacking as commander in Afganistan, the Post and Fail as usual publishes another article that calls for a member of the military to commit sedition….A letter to Adm. Mullen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff….
“Dear Chairman Mullen,
Under normal circumstances, I could not agree more with your comments as listed below. However, given that Mr. Obama has successfully cast an illusion to which many unwittingly subscribe (evidently, you, sir, included) and is not legally eligible to serve our country as the president, you should not have been surprised at General McChrystal’s comments made to Rolling Stone magazine.
Obama is simply a usurper who has managed to convince those greedy, self-serving members of our current government that it is to their personal financial advantage to see his clothes.
Consequently, in my view, General McChrystal’s comments did not refer to any type of an individual deserving of recognition as a member of the human race, and he was simply echoing the sentiments of the majority of Americans who are also fed up with the coup d’etat executed by Leftist members of Congress who are under the influence of foreign governments.
At this point, you, Mr. Chairman, can either reflect the politically-correct attitude of a member of the treasonous conspiracy, or you are now ready to face reality and your responsibility to honor your obligation to the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution to which you swore a sacred oath to defend. You did not swear an oath to protect a usurper pretending to act as our legal president.
Since there is no legal Commander-in-Chief, we the people of these United States call on you to honor your sacred “oath of office,” an oath you took with direct loyalty to the Constitution, and remove the rogue, out-of-control dictatorship.”
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/06/24/chairman-mullen-lets-call-a-spade-a-spade/
And of course the comical comments of the day….
A pen says:
Friday, June 25, 2010 at 9:39 AM
Let us wait for a few more days to see if there are courts open for protection. The Kerchner case is due to be heard albeit without argument , by the end of this month. While no case may be perfect it remains for justice to hear the complaints and under the rule of law to issue more than a dismissal citing the self invented rule of standing. Every citizen with a wit can read the law and see the court evading the pursuit of justice. The people are ready to rise to the occasion and do indeed hold the constitution as the supreme law and expect it enforced. The many number of ways originally instituted are obviously now blocked and that puts us in a very dangerous position. Will it be every man for himself when the ship of law sinks or will we be rescued? Like the Titanic, we are doomed due to an illegal injury, irreparable by redress intentionally and deceptively employed and apparently now only a matter of sinking.
natural born citizen party says:
Friday, June 25, 2010 at 7:03 AM
Once Dunn is removed from the General Election CA-SOS ballot for voter registration and candidate eligibility certification ineligibility / fraud, Orly Taitz then GOP candidate for CA-SOS should be asked to appear as an expert witness at the CM of LTC Lakin.
Y’know, as mean as this sounds, I seriously wonder if the harp-playing Ms. Rondeau’s writings should be brought to the attention of her employer. She is openly calling for a military coup against the legally elected civilian government (note that she did NOT say that any of the Constitutionally designated civilians in line to take the Presidency should be installed or even informed). That’s awfully close to sedition….
Hmmm…let me get this right….in birther speak, the election of a president by nearly 67 million American voters, representing a 53 to 49% majority, and 365 to 173 electoral votes, constitutes a coup-d’etat….but the military removing this elected official is fullfilling one’s sworn oath to uphold the Constitution?
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
ooopss…my bad on the math….that should be 53 to 46 % majority.
Yes with the birthers we seem to be in a alternate world where “1984” seems to be the way they wish it was….
Agreed…It seems like the Post and Fail and WND ever so slightly advocate seditious acts by either the military or “citizen militias”….And when the commenters seem to come right out and say it, you never see Ms. Rondeau correct them or say that they are wrong. Yet they will censor anyone that refers to Mr. Obama by his rightful title as Mr. President. Interesting. However when you see how the articles seem to have gone so far over the line, it tells us that the birthers, and their sites like the Post and Fail are getting desperate…
Good god what treasonous bastards that group is
Obama’s not a member of the human race?
Nope, birthers aren’t racist or anything.
Natural born citizen has been defined forever…those born in a country to citizen parents. Prosecute all involved. A crime has been committed.
so a non-military branch of government overthrew themselves militarily and the only solution is for the military to overthrow the government in a coup d’etat.
just checking.
please show us in forever where it was defined as such ?
( …de vattel ???)
Nonsense. Utter nonsense.
What gets me is the absolute certainty with which birthers cut-and-paste and parrot anything that gets them to Obama not being an actual President. And you have to wonder, why must this particular President be illegitimate? What psychological block demands that?
Hmmmm…. What is it about this particular President that’s is so different from other Presidents? Inquiring minds want to know. LOL.
Natural born citizen has been defined forever…those born in a country to citizen parents. Prosecute all involved. A crime has been committed.
oh Margie, Margie….
a) NBC has been defined forever- but not your definition. Show me a civics textbook with your definition? I haven’t found one. I was taught in school in the 60’s by my conservative, Republican- and evangical Christian(in those days there was far less seperation of church and state) civics teacher that NBC was someone born in the United States.
b) Prosecute all involved? Prosecute all 69 million voters who were in on the conspiracy?
Just silliness. However, I do recommend that you strongly- and very publicly offer your support to your states Republican and Teaparty candidates. Be sure to mention your definition of NBC often, and call the President the Ursurper. If you are in California, I hope to see you at the podium with Meg Whitman.
Please.
Birthers also continue to define more than two types of citizenship. They insist that there are natural born, native and naturalized citizens with Obama being native at best and most likely an undocumented alien.
I’m glad you caught and corrected this. There is one other numerical error in your original statement (which I’m listing here with your corrected percentage # edited in):
Obama’s actual vote total was several million higher than that – nearly 69.5 million American voters, or to be precise: 69,456,897
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2008/2008presgeresults.pdf
(see bottom far right column, page 2)
It sure does seem that way. Sadly, I agree. This seems to be the type of world & government that they and some other right-wing fringe groups truly want.
I agree. That level of character denigration and dehumanization is beyond deplorable. It is the whole sickening “sub-human” argument that only racial purists tend to use to justify doing horrible things to people they don’t agree with.
If you’ve given money to any of the birther causes, you could maybe sue them for fraud, but I doubt it rises to the level of crime.
When faced with birther cases, the U.S. Supreme Court been as dismissive as they get. SCOTUS has gotten half a dozen or so such petitions/applications, and flushed them as efficiently as possible. Orly Taitz claimed that Chief Justice Roberts was “sending a message” that her case had merit, but Orly Taitz was lying.
The birther failure rate is 100%. State courts, federal courts, liberal judges, conservative judges — doesn’t matter — birthers lose everywhere, every time. Some appeals have gone to multi-judge panels, and in some instances, such as SCOTUS conferences, the vote is not disclosed. Charles Kerchner likes to pretend he has inside information that birthers got four votes in SCOTUS conferences. Let’s deal with facts: before individual judges and multi-judge panels, birthers have lost every time, and in cases where we know the how the individual judges of a panel voted on birther suits, the rulings have always been unanimous.
Hilarious!
Wow, it just shows how detached from reality some of these folks are.
I suspect that there are a good amount of birthers that are smart enough to realize that they have no chance of actually winning these cases (or of Orly being elected), but just go along with it, because it advances the cause of their hatred of Obama & desire to smear him.
One would think that the court history of these cases so far (what is it, 0-70+) is clear enough that even a birther would realize not to pin all their hopes on a mere appeal of an already failed case in which oral arguments won’t even be entertained…
One would also think that by now, even birthers would realize that putting their hopes in Orly is a lost cause and that even they would see that she rarely comes across as either credible, competent or sane….
But for anyone to seriously think that Orly can still overturn the CA primary results and become SOS….now that truly is taking delusional to a whole new plateau!
So obviously, there are quite a few of truly hard-core “birther believers” out there who are too far detached from reality to realize how implausible their sick hopes & actions are.
I can’t imagine how they actually make it through each day of life, being that far gone. These are the OMG and “any day now” types of birthers that we tend to see frequently.
One truly wonders what it must be like for them, as they must truly experience “shock” and deep depression at each failure and defeat. The saddest part about it is that somehow, they obviously don’t learn from any of these experiences at all and seem to view each implausible next action with the same amount of confident hope and fervor for its success as their last failed attempt.
When one gets their hopes up unrealistically and then fails, that usually results in a sense of crushing defeat. Man, it must truly suck to be these people, who by clinging to their own delusions merely set themselves up for painful and agonizing let downs over and over and over again.
It truly boggles the mind.
Of course not. We are the racists for pointing out the racist statements made by the birthers….And then at this point a birther points out that they support Alan Keyes to prove that they are not racist….
Yeah it was defined forever as being born in a country, regardless of citizenship of the parents. Jus Soli. That is why you have conservatives who want to change the laws so that people aren’t natural born when they are born in this country.
RE: “The birther failure rate is 100%. State courts, federal courts, liberal judges, conservative judges — doesn’t matter — birthers lose everywhere, every time….. the rulings have always been unanimous.”
If you call avoiding to rule on merit “rulings” – you are right. Alen Keyes uses a different term: “dereliction of duty”.
in which birther case did a judge deviate or ignore the law ?
Yes, yes, we know. Birthers don’t understand how the law works.
How about this term: “Lawsuits filed by idiots, as a general rule, don’t make it past perfectly valid procedural hurdles.”
Dereliction of duty? The Supreme Court spelled out explicit rules for who can bring a suit and when. The birther suits have failed to abide by those rules. You and Alan Keyes want the Courts to ignore their duty and ignore the law.
At least be honest about your intentions.
“Alen Keyes uses a different term: “dereliction of duty”.”
Ah we should all use Allen Keyes as a measure of rational- and of success of course.
He hasn’t succeeded in any of his numerous election campaigns nor in his lawsuit. He is what we call in America a loser.
Well, Alan Keyes has never been too bright and most people rightly view him as an extremist nut.
Obviously you know nothing about the law or how it works. Frivolous cases should be outright rejected and tossed in the trash, as all of these birther cases correctly were.
Kind of hard to have a dereliction of duty if the judges are ruling according to the law. But speaking of dereliction how about Keyes dereliction as a father who disowned his own daughter for being gay.
Hey Doc ,
I Mario is playing hide the 10K with you today.
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/06/obamas-long-form-birth-certificate.html
I guess the 35 x zero comment hit a sore spot.
Wow it didn’t take Robert but a few paragraphs to call Dr C a Marxist/Socialist who hates America. Doc please fix the quote for me. Good old unhinged extremists love to use the terms Marxist and Socialist interchangeably without having a vague idea what either of those terms entail. Where exactly has Doc posted his social or economic beliefs that one could gauge where he stands on the spectrum?
“Robert said…
The rewards I’ve read about now total $120,000. However, there is a mathematical probability that Dr. Conspiracy is making far more than this working as a shill for Obama.
And even if that is not the case, the truth is always going to be much stronger than any of the fiction that DC produces. Yes, he is a very skillful and clever writer. But his constant twisting of the facts is very apparent to all but the most mind-numbed Obots. Dr. Conspiracy knows that he has been fully discredited in the intelligent and fair-minded crowds. In fact, anyone with at least an 8th grade understanding of the principles of research can see through his material at first glance. His only remaining purpose, mathematically speaking, is to keep the Obots in tow as long as he can.
Unfortunately for him, his more recent writings are beginning to betray that he doesn’t actually believe much of what he writes either. his tone is beginning to sour and his tempos are dragging. His rope is clearly unraveling. Like I said, he’s not an idiot. But he does have a job to do. So, give him a few props for staying the course as his ship is sinking.
It will be too bad for Obama when guys like Dr. Conspiracy have had more than they can stomach. DC probably bought in to the whole “Hope and Change” bit. Or, maybe he’s a Marxist, Socialist who really hates America like Obama. In any case, it will be interesting to see just how much manure he is willing to shovel before any remaining thirst for the truth and real “Hope and Change” that he might have overwhelms his debunked philosophies and misplaced loyalties and demands reconciliation.”
Speaking of sedition, more evidence of that is what the harp playing Ms. Rondeau and her buddies at the Post and Fail are advocating….Take a look at this so called “letter”….
“(Jun. 25, 2010) — Until recently, most people in the United States of America did not believe that Marxist Obama’s mission was actually to destroy our country. The majority of US citizens believed that—before all else—like other presidents of the United States, Obama would eventually place this country before his and his masters’ debauched and perverted desires. But, Obama is not like other presidents of this country and, it strongly appears, legally he may not be POTUS at all.
Millions of our countrymen and women have finally awakened to the truth of his dark assignment: To destroy anything and everything that even remotely resembles America and its delivered promise of freedom and liberty to its citizens and the world. The Shining City Upon the Hill that President Ronald Reagan spoke about was part of the Obama planned demolition.
That city of which a true President of the United States brilliantly spoke has now been blown up by a defiant radical usurper and, if we are to survive as a nation and a people—or simply survive at all—we will have to rebuild it almost from the ground up. In order to do so, we will have to rid ourselves of the Marxist traitors to this country who now inhabit and infest the Congressional and Executive branches of government in Washington, D.C. and many of our State elected offices. If we are to survive and, again, begin to live, we must never allow an anti-human Marxist and/or Maoist contingent to enter any form of government—let alone the office of president.
Of particular significance is the last sentence which I reiterate: “That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.” We can either choose to write a new Declaration of Independence or defer to the resplendent original that tells us what we must now do.”
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/06/25/we-must-now-enact-a-declaration-of-independence-from-obama-tyranny/
I wonder what the writer means by “what we must do now”? Overthrow a democratically elected President and Cabinet? really? I just remember when the left extreme wanted to get rid of Bush. The so called right called them traitors and evil. So now the shoe is on the other foot and the people that are “against” the President and the government are now heros and “patriots”? Not in my book. They are seditious individuals.
Of course the article sends the reader by link to the following site…
http://someonediedformetoday.com/
HighlanderJuan says:
Friday, June 25, 2010 at 11:42 AM
Let me see if I understand this situation. We have a Marxist usurper in the highest office in the land; the rest of the federal government has knowledge of, and is in agreement with this usurpation; the people have been and are still lied to by their elected representatives and their government hirelings; our rule of law is broken and is no longer followed; our economy is being trashed by the most egregious means possible; and our government is now filled at the highest levels with communists and Marxists.
No one on the federal level seems interested in or willing to support their oaths to defend and protect our Constitution or to stop this takeover of our country, Not even the FBI.
So, it appears that we have been usurped, and are no longer a free republic – we are now a communist state, controlled by a tyrannical oligarchy, and we will see no justice as long as this condition exists.
Until the American people rise up in sufficient numbers to nullify and replace this alien central government, we are, as the French would say, le screwed.’
I wish Arnie well with his letter, but I am not optimistic.
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Mrs. Rondeau replies: There is a way to do this. Read Sher Zieve’s editorial just published.
Black Lion –
Thanks as always for sharing and bringing that stuff to our attention.
Again, just shows the true treasonous colors of these birthers & their ilk, as they continue to flog their sedition & Civil War fantasies.
God. The more I read, the closer I am to contacting that symphony. I know the economy’s lousy, but this woman and her insane web site are about a millimeter from calling for a coup. Not cool.
I have no doubt that some of them will eventually fully cross the line beyond what is legal to say or do.
James Von Brunn.
If you’re worried about national security call the FBI. Don’t call her employer.
To quote Barbi, “Math is hard.”
Wow…that was a waste of my time. If I offer Mario $10,000 to provide me a copy of GW Bush’s or Clinton’s birth certificate, does that mean they’re not born in the US either? What a genuinely silly diatribe. That fact that someone has made an offer of money for a copy of a document that is not publicly available in no way is proof of anything….unless Mario is suggesting that Rachel Maddows should storm the Hawaii DOH and steal a copy of a document that is protected by state and federal privacy laws.
Yes, and unfortunately, he’s not the only one we’ve seen who was a definite birther who crossed the line & made the news for very bad behavior since Obama was elected. So here’s just the list of known birthers who snapped already that I’m aware of:
1. Richard Poplawski- 04/04/09: Birther who posted on Stormfront, who killed 3 cops & injured 2 more at a confrontation at his PA house was ranting about Obama taking away his guns. He was a fan of Alex Jones, Fox News, Ron Paul & Glenn Beck. White-supremacist. “Survivalist”. Hated Jews & blamed “Zionists” for Obama.
2. James Von Brunn – 06/09/09: Shot & killed a black museum guard at the Holocaust Museum in DC. Had a long history of white-supremacist writings & activities & hated blacks & Jews.
3. George Sondini – 08/04/09: Shot & killed 4 women at fitness center in Pittsburgh, PA. Known online for birther statements, “Bible Thumping”, racist views against blacks & sexist views against women & hated “liberals”.
4. Charles Dyer – 01/13/10: aka July4Patriot – TeaParty/OathKeepers “spokesman” until found with illegal stolen military rocket launcher & lots of other weapons when picked up for raping 7 yr old gir. Had been known for making violent threats on youtube & birther / RW sites.
5. Joseph Sean McVey – 04/25/10: An Ohio man arrested near the runway around the time President Barack Obama’s flight was leaving Asheville Regional Airport in NC, for impersonating police officers, having a weapon and intent to threaten/harm the President. His Facebook posts proved he was an anti-Obama birther..
Then of course, we have the Secret Service having to already issue warnings to such known birther “religious leaders” and their sedition / treason / threat rants such as James Manning & Wiley Drake.
Not to mention the current arrests & trial activities this year for not just LTC Terrence Lakin, but also Walter Fitzpatrick and Darren Huff.
Then of course, there is this list of other documented threats against Obama & his family:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_assassination_threats
Not to mention all of these other right-wing and / or “anti-government” agitators who’ve already acted out since the campaign & election. To my knowledge, It is unknown whether any of them ever expressed “birther” beliefs, in addition to their other extremist views – But based on over profiles of the belief-sets commonly held by those who espouse birther views, I wouldn’t be surprised if any of them turned out to also hold birther beliefs.
– Jim David Adkisson -07/27/08
– Ashley Todd (faked “backwards B” incident) – 10/23/08
– Paul Schlesselman & Daniel Coward – 10/27/08
– Steven Joseph Christopher – 01/16/09
– Scott Roeder – 05/31/09
– Gregory Girard – 02/12/10
– Joseph Andrew Stack – 02/10/10
– John Patrick Beddell – 03/04/10
– Johnny Logan Spencer – 03/17/10
– Harry Weisiger – 03/26/10
– Hutaree Militia (9 arrested) -03/28/10
– Gregory Guisti – 04/07/10
– Larry Eugene North – 04/08/10
– Brian “Sonny” Thomas – 04/14/10
– Erik Lawrence Pidrman -04/18/10
– Jerry Ralph Kane Jr. & son Joe Kane – 05/20/10
– Russell & David Hesch – 06/07/10
– Matthew Fairfield – 06/09/10
McVeigh was inspired by Waco and Christian Identity. He’d be right at home with Denialists.
And the internet has given them an instantaneous, vast, freely repetitive, roving, ideological platform with frequently and unfortunately too much power over the weak minded.
Free speech isn’t free.
I have little doubt McVeigh would have been a birther. His obsession with The Turner Diaries would have been a strong clue.
So sad but true.
Also, unfortunately these folks do seem very much in the McVeigh mindset, as both you and Misha have pointed out.
If you looked at the dates on the list, you’ll notice that there has been a fairly steady uptick.
I actually think that overly unrealistic hype & hope for the Nov elections is keeping many more from crossing the line for the time being. Unfortunately, that just means that we should expect a significant uptick of these folks snapping at the end of the year and next.
We should never retreat from calling them out, just because we know they are unstable and prone to do awful things to innocent people. If anything, that just means both us & the government need to remain ever vigilant in monitoring & countering them.
That article Apuzzo wrote didn’t make much sense. It sounded like he didn’t understand what I was saying, but he’d have to have some serious mental defect to miss in something that short. I think he was just trying to confuse his audience, which in the main probably do have a range of mental defects.’
This Keller said that anyone could call up Hawaii and get a Certificate of Live Birth. I just asked where his was. Lakin’s attorney said anybody could get a COLB. Where is his?
I guess they are both just “nobodies.”
I have sent e-mails to Keller and Jensen. I said basically this: You have claimed anyone can get a Hawaii COLB by filling out a form. Obtain their COLB, prove it to me, and I will donate to your cause.
So far, I do not have any response from either. I’ll keep everyone posted.
Throw all the tantrums you want, but understand, that’s it for you. When you go in for this kook stuff you condemn yourself to abject failure.
It’s a hoot that Alan Keyes is birther champion. Keyes is famous for one thing: losing. He was already America’s most prominent perennial candidate when he managed to lose the 2008 presidential election *three times*. He lost in the Republican primaries, then sought the Constitution Party nomination and lost, then re-formed the oxymoronic “American Independent Party” to lose in the general election.
I wonder if Lakin’s attorney made this comparison:
A. Gen. Petraeus: a great American Patriot, accepting his orders and serving his country
B. Lcl. Lakin: a poiitical hack refusing his orders and going AWOL
Amen.