I’ve spent hundreds of hours on this blog: doing research, writing articles, hyperlinking sources, analyzing arguments and informing the public about the antics of the Birthers. But all of that effort, I fear, is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done to the national discourse by one stupid tabloid article such as “Obama was not born in U.S.” from Globe magazine, July 12, 2010.
The article itself is nothing special. It’s a short rehash of various statements from Tim Adams, Hawaiian elections clerk, there inflated to “Gov’t official” on the front cover. It peppers the article with false statements like “America’s current Commander-in-Chief…has gone to … great expense…to seal records from his past” and “his paternal grandmother insists she witnessed his birth in Kenya” and “[Barack Obama] once mistakenly named two different hospitals where he was supposed to be born.” It labels Obama’s Certification of Live birth “FORGERY” and shows a family portrait of Barack Obama from 1987 with his Kenyan extended family and says the picture “haunts” Obama (they never explains what’s so sinister about this family photo).
In typical Globe fashion, after making outlandish claims attributed to “sources” and “insiders”, it ends with some attributed facts. In this case:
Hawaii State Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino says she checked the official records and can verify that Obama is a natural born citizen….
Meantime, Adams’ boss Glen Takahashi, administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk’s Office, disputes Adams’ contention that he had access to birth records.
I picked up my copy of Globe from a supermarket in Radford, Virginia. Is there any wonder that polls show so many Americans have questions about where Barack Obama was born? It’s on the front page at the supermarket!
[One of the earliest articles on this site was about the Globe magazine’s headline “Obama Election Illegal.”]
Doc
Was the second page story about Elvis’ alien child or that Princess Diana isn’t really dead but living under an assumed name in Hinckley, Ohio?
I want to see Orly’s reaction to this front page news. I believe that she’ll be very happy that this birther issue now hits the front page of a “mainstream newspaper”. LOL!
Please tell me that you didn’t actually pay for the copy of the Globe that you’re holding in that photo.
“Is there any wonder that polls show so many Americans have questions about where Barack Obama was born? It’s on the front page at the supermarket!”
Has there been a poll taken since The Globe released this article? I thought the “so many Americans” existed before this edition of The Globe was on the stands.
Dear Doc,
The next Globe may feature Obama being born to the Texan Two-headed woman while she was straddling the U.S./Mexican border. Birtherism contaminates rational thought – we shouldn’t be surprised to see their theories in these rags. Hate will always be a powerful growth medium for many appalling ideas.
Benji Franklin
In case anyone believes that polls asking people what they know matter, here’s one in honor of Independence Day.
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/72-don%E2%80%99t-know-much-about-history/
26% of Americans don’t know which country the US declared independence from.
Scientist don’t get me started. There are many americans in this country who would fail the citizenship test that immigrants have to take.
Oh, the Globe has been saying Obama was born in Kenya for ages. One of the first articles that ever appeared on this web site (December 15, 2008) had Globe headlines “Obama election illegal. Birth certificate forged.”
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/obama-election-illegal-globe/
Confession time:
When I saw that issue of the Globe in my local CVS, I took the copy and shoved it completely under the display rack. If the story reappears in a future issue, I’m going to ask to see the manager to find out why his store stocks a publication that openly and blatantly lies.
Interesting article regarding our old friend Leo….
“I haven’t much kept up with this case since last December, when a Jeep dealer on Long Island NY, inexplicably, picked two Birther lawyers to represent him and other car dealers against Chrysler over closed dealerships. The latest developments are confusing, to say the least.
The original claim, as far as the Birther lawyers are concerned, as I understood it, began as a request for reconsideration of an earlier suit, and was expected to somehow lead to discovery of Obama’s birth certificate in a quo warranto segment, but that seems to have gotten lost along the way.
Car dealer James Anderer, who initially hired Stephen Pidgeon and Leo Donofrio, was lead plaintiff in P&D’s later suit against what is called “Old Chrysler” involving, supposedly, “hundreds” of dealers. The reconsideration was Denied in February by the US Bankruptcy Court and Appealed to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.
But Anderer and another dealer recently engaged a different law firm and made a settlement with “New Chrysler” through arbitration, apparently, at first, without the knowledge of and subsequently against the advice of Pidgeon & Donofrio. So now there are charges and counter-charges flying in all directions, as Stephen Pidgeon says his firm is entitled to part of the settlement and attempts to withdraw as counsel–while dangerously disclosing attorney-client communications–to Anderer and a second car dealer, John Hine, to which Anderer objects, because he wants to stay in their case, too, (I think).”
http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=11274
Taitz has already been referring to wnd.com as mainstream media, so she’s pretty much already there.
Of course I paid for it. This blog is all about integrity.
And the photo was worth it. The expression, the composition… brilliant.
Yeah, the photo was a hoot! 🙂
Read these and other great stories in the GLOBE!!
Saddam: “Batboy is my love child!!”
EXCLUSIVE: WMDs found in Saddam’s mistress’ basement!!
Saddam: My great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was a Jew!!
The Globe: read by more cats and birds than the National Enquirer.
Mars, right?
EXCLUSIVE: WMDs found in Saddam’s mistress’ basement!!
.
all that time I thought they were looking for WND!
The Globe article is a fishing expedition, I’d wager.
They are hoping that the President would honor them with a defamation suit.
They still wouldn’t get discovery on Hawai’i DOH documents beyond the already published COLB, but they would at least get bragging rights.
He is rightly ignoring them. Vermin like that should just be swept under a rug.
I wasn’t suggesting that you had stolen it. Rather, I was hoping that you picked up the copy to take the photo somewhere in the store and put it back on the shelf.
Dr C: when you’re done with it, I need it to line Max’s litter box.
I didn’t take it that way. I used the magazine for my article, and that’s why I felt I should buy it.
“Debbie Gibson is pregnant with my two
headed love child
It’s a bigfoot baby all covered in fur now
Stark raving naked in the fornication nation”
Hope you don’t mind if I steal that picture for my blog, Doc. I smell a rant coming on…
Doc was Rick Hiatt in any of the Globe Articles?
mojo !!! i just made a poster yesterday for a gig with him and kinky friedman. should be a good time.
i’m surprised that there hasn’t been more hoopla from the birthers about this article. i thought for sure james would have already been here posting links to it. did they take monday off because of the 4th ?
Mojo’s playing again? That is wonderful news.
not sure. our show is the only one scheduled for mojo so it may just be a one-time thing ( altho i wasn’t told to promote it as such so……. again, not sure ).
sorry to go off-topic. we return to tabloid journalism already in progress…….
one interesting thing about the globe article i think should be noted: the date. July 12, 2010 . the other day there was a bit of a debate about the “white house hospital letter” and the fact that it was dated the night of the celebration.
It’s a mistake to think that the Globe has any real interest in the birther fantasy. They just know their audience. If 10 million poor saps buy into birtherism, that’s a lot of issues sold. After all, the birthers all eat, which means they all go to the supermarket. Globe isn’t aimed at people who read above a fourth grade level.
Many magazines have dates on the cover some days, weeks or months in the future of the publishing date. One reason is that newsstands will pull the magazine on that date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodical_cover_date
OK.
I did, of course, give you credit and a link back 🙂
http://www.opednews.com/Diary/Birtherism-Bottom-Feeders-by-J-Edward-Tremlett-100706-133.html
bingo.
to that degree i envy them.
It would be nice to see the State of Hawaii bring some kind of a suit against Adams for slander. It seems to me that his statement that it’s an open secret that they all know the president was not born in Hawaii is a blatant lie, and he should be called on that. He didn’t admit to looking into any of Hawaii’s confidential records, so any kind of criminal prosecution is out, but there should be something they can do civilly about his fraudulent claims about the state.
WND is now touting the fact that the Globe picked up their story, while at the same time seemingly accusing the Globe of plagiarism.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=175013
WND Seems Mostly Happy Tabloid Stole Its Birther Story
Topic: WorldNetDaily
Is WorldNetDaily happy to have descended to the level of a supermarket tabloid? It appears so.
A July 5 WND article by Joe Kovacs details how the charges leveled by new birther hero Tim Adams are “now featured in a cover story in Globe Magazine, repeating the allegations originally revealed by WND.” Kovacs adds that “in every instance of a quotation from Adams, the tabloid appears to have simply copied Adams’ comments to WND verbatim, without ever mentioning the remarks originated with a WND interview.”
Of course, the Globe isn’t exactly a “magazine”; it’s a supermarket tabloid. The Globe promoted the birther story last August, which WND also touted. It seems fitting, since WND has roughly the same standards of accuracy as a supermarket tabloid.
But lifting stuff from WND without sufficient credit has long been a sore point. Does this mean that WND will start attacking the Globe like it did the New Republic, when it slimed writer John B. Judis as “Judas” for not crediting WND for a story? You’d think it would, and we can’t wait to see it.
Kovacs also repeats the claim that Adams’ “direct contradiction of the White House storyline that Obama was born in Hawaii has sparked detractors to attack him personally online and on the air in a vicious smear campaign.” But as before, Kovacs doesn’t address the basis for the so-called “smear campaign”: Why did Adams make his claim to a “pro-white” radio show at a convention of the white-supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens?
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2036164/wnd-seems-mostly-happy-tabloid-stole-its-birther-story/
The Globe causes cats, puppies, and birds to become constipated. Something to do with the amount of excrement already on the page.
Max walked into the kitchen and said, “I can’t use my litter box. It’s full.”
I’ll have to find something else to line his box.
The question on most people’s minds is why Obama refuses to release his long-form birth cerficate. You know, the one that lists the hospital where he was born, has the parents signatures, and the signature of the person (usually the doctor) that actually witnessed the birth. The birth cerficate Obama has produced contains no signatures or the name of any person that witnessed the birth. Hawaii claims they do not release long-form birth certificates, but you’d think that Obama would be able to obtain one if he really wanted to. After all, if Obama release an authentic long-form birth certificate, much of this birther stuff would be silenced. Yes, not all of it would go away, but a lot would. And the reason the birth cerificate he posted on fightthesmears.org hasn’t ended the discussion is because it contains NO signatures and does NOT name anybody that witnessed the birth. I mean, what’s he got to lose by releasing it? He may just have to if he wants to be on the ballot in several states next year. His refusal to produce it just makes people that aren’t sure of his “natural born citizen” status that more unsure. Can anybody tell me a logical reason why Obama won’t release the full certificate?
It is always interesting when birther trolls post here thinking that they somehow repeat the same discredited birther talking points they have some up with something new…..For this poster how many discredited points did he fit in his post? The funniest point is always this magical “long form” that has these magical signatures….Unlike the COLB that is signed by Alvin Onaka and attested to be a true certified copy and states that Obama was born in HI. I needed a good laugh and I just got one with this post…
Proof: you have some valid points in your entire post. I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?), which may be what you are looking for.
Thanks for posting.
Good article regarding WND…Some interesting sections are below….It is funny to see how WND has exploited it readers to make money off them….And they keep coming back for more…PT Barnum would have a field day with the birthers…
WorldNetDaily’s Letter Scam (Or Is That Spam?)
WND wants readers to pay it increasingly hefty fees to send letters to politicians on various hot-button issues — and to spread numerous lies in the process.
By Terry Krepel
Posted 7/6/2010
——————————————————————————–
WorldNetDaily has never been shy about trying to fleece its readers for cash — after all, it encourages its readers to make voluntary donations, even though WND is a for-profit operation. (WND’s rationale: “there is a long and honored tradition in the newspaper business of asking loyal readers for voluntary payments.”)
But trying to get people pay for something that’s free likely hasn’t brought in the cash, so WND must come up with other revenue streams. By getting into the business of having its readers pay it to send letters to politicians, WND seems to have one.
In a Nov. 25, 2008, column uncritically repeating claims by the discredited Ron Polarik that the birth certificate released by Obama’s presidential campaign is a forgery, thus making it a scandal akin to “Rathergate,” Porter offered ideas for her readers who care about “care about life, liberty or the family, you’re going to have to make hundreds of calls to try and fight an agenda that seeks to silence you” to “prevent” Obama from taking office, among them:
Write a letter to the nine Justices of the United States Supreme Court (names are listed below) and put them in a FedEx (or other overnight) envelope to:
U.S. Supreme Court
1 First Street, N.E
Washington, D.C. 20543
A few days after that, WND kicked off an expanded campaign aimed at the Electoral College, asking readers to pay it $10.95 to send letters “to 470 members of the 538-member Electoral College for whom addresses are available. They will all be delivered Friday morning, giving each elector the weekend to consider the constitutional issues raised by Obama’s presidency.” The WND article repeated the discredited claim that “two Obama family members have told WND they were present at his birth in Mombasa, Kenya” and Polarik’s discredited claim that Obama’s birth certificate is ” a possible forgery.”
WND misleadingly promoted the campaign by highlighting how many letters were sent, taking care not to mention how few people actually took part. For instance, WND offered unsurprisingly positive coverage of its own press conference in which it and Porter managed to get a few Republican members of Congress to endorse their “pink slip” campaign, touting how the number of pink slips “have surged past 5 million.” But divide 5 million by 535, and you get 9,345 — the number of people who have paid WND $29.95 to do this. That’s a far less impressive number than 5 million.
At the press conference, Farah laughably pretended he was acting as a political activist by facilitating and promoting the pink-slip campaign: “One of the questions I get from colleagues is why a news agency would involve itself in a political advocacy campaign like the ‘pink slips’ effort. The answer is that I am an American first and a newsman second. I don’t want to see the foundations that made this country great and that made the notion of a free press possible destroyed. And that’s why we got behind this campaign.”
Of course, the more logical — and more truthful — answer is that WND has never been a news organization and has always been a political advocacy group, as its eagerness to lie about Obama and his administration amply demonstrates. Further, if WND were an actual news organization that cared about facts, it would not have issued a “pink slip” with such obvious factual errors.
Also, multiply $29.95 by the 9,345 people who had taken part at that point and you get $279,882 — the amount of money WND had taken in for the campaign at that point. Printing and sending the pink slips, it can be assumed, did not cost anywhere near that much. (WND ultimately claimed that “more than 9 million” pink slips were sent out.)
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2010/wndletters.html
And what makes you think I’m a birther? It’s somebody wanting to know why he hasn’t released it, and you did absolutely NOTHING to address the question. It’s a legitment question that millions are asking (yes, there are that many people that are wondering). To question why it hasn’t been released doesn’t mean that we think he should be impeached right now. What’s also funny is how the answer to this question never seems to address the question. And this long-form isn’t “magical” or some non-existed document. It exists, and Obama hasn’t provided it. The question is WHY? His certified cerificate that he has provided doesn’t have the signatures of his parents or the person that witnessed the birth. Please, for those of us born before 2000, go and check your original birth cerficate. I am guessing the vast majority of you will discover that it contains the signature of the witness that saw the birth. Recently, birth certificates have been released more in the short-form where these aren’t shown, but older certificates will have them. Go and check, and you’ll find it there. Now, back to the question on many people’s minds: Why hasn’t he released the long-form? And if your only response is that it doesn’t exist, well, then you are either correct and Obama isn’t natural born, or you are incorrect and it exists, but Hawaii and/or Obama won’t release it. And if you’re wrong–which must be the case for Obama to be natural born–then why hasn’t it been released? Black lion did not address the question, are there any other takers?
“most people’s minds”
Let’s not confuse that with the many, angry, confusing voices in a birther’s head.
Pathetic.
Of the 4 members of my immediate family, all born before 2000 (in a couple of cases before the President was born), none of us have certificates with any signatures of doctors or parents. They are signed (stamped) by the Registrar. So you say ” the vast majority”, a meaningless statement, and I say 0 of 4 (a precise number).
If you asked me, my wife or our children for our birth certificayes, you would get something prestty much like what Obama released. Quite honestly, I have no idea if it is possible to get anything else, nor would i waste time trying, since what we have has never been turned down by anyone.
Hope that answers your questions.
He’s released what the state of Hawaii gives out to prove birth in that state, and it doesn’t matter what he releases anyway because you will also claim it’s fake. He’s not going to personally take each one of you people out to Hawaii to get each of you your own personal copy. The silly claim that he has not released it is based on the false premise that he wasn’t born in Hawaii; everything that arises from that false premise is unavoidably false.
Your claim that he has not released what the state of Hawaii gives out to prove birth in that state is outright false. The director of the state health department and the governor have said that it’s a fact that he was born there and that they have verified the original birth facts from 1961, and they wouldn’t say that if it wasn’t true. Anyone who thinks he would take extra time, spend extra money, and expend extra effort to have a fake one made when he had every right to a valid birth certificate that he could have gotten from Hawaii in three days is sorely lacking in logic, common sense, and brains.
A view of the long-form birth cerificate that Hawaii used in 1961 can be viewed at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/1961_Hawaii_Certificate_Of_Live_Birth.jpg Now, back to my question: Why hasn’t Obama released his long-form? You’d think it would be a postive for his candiacy. And exactly what “discredited points” are you referring you, again? The long-form exists, now why hasn’t it been shown to the public? If you have nothing intelligent to say about my question, then don’t waste your time responding.
What “candidacy”? He already won over 1.5 years ago. Did you miss it?
If million of people don’t know that we declared independence from Britain, as implied in above posts, then what makes you think millions don’t doubt where Obama was born? Millions do doubt, and this long-form document would help ease their doubts.
Proof: my BC from NYS is the old form, and it does not have a birth witness signature.
Obama’s Kenya birth scenario is physically impossible. This is real, not a prank:
http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html
Sorry, I should have used the word presidency. My mistake. Now, about the long-form, maybe your state doesn’t have it. 7 of my immediate family members have it, but maybe Minnesota and North Dakota are loners in providing a long form. Also, are you going to suggest that the image that can be viewed at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/1961_Hawaii_Certificate_Of_Live_Birth.jpg is a fraud? I believe Hawaii did indeed keep a long-form record, and my question is why hasn’t Obama released it?
Actually, Hawaii won’t give him one. He is a little busy right now, too.
I NEVER said that Obama had a Kenyan birth certificate. If you did not mean to imply that I had made such a claim, then I am sorry. I just wanted to clear that up.
Read it for yourself
“Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”
http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
Hawaii didn’t send him one.
Next.
Thanks for telling me what I already know. In my original post, I said this: “Hawaii claims they do not release long-form birth certificates, but you’d think that Obama would be able to obtain one if he really wanted to. ” So, if you reason for the long-form not being released is that Obama does not have the authority to make Hawaii provide him with a copy, then you have given me a valid reason (finally!)
His campaign posted a COLB that legally establishes his place of birth. It is visually consistent with what Hawaii issues. It is consistent, allowing for color and arrangement of the data fields, with what any number of states issue. It has not been refuted by the state of Hawaii, as the sate legally could do if he offered up a forged state document. Rather, Hawaii has confirmed the document, which has seen far wider distribution than legal birth documents for any other President I can recall.
Now, given that, why should he do anything more when it is obvious that the people pursuing this so irrationally hate his guts that they would believe anything that discredits him? When these same people have multiple deranged fall back positions to deny his legitimacy no matter what birth document he provides. When it is patently obvious that this whole issue is being pursued in no small part by people who, at some level, simply don’t want to concede that a black man is actually President?
Why would any sane person expect Obama to demean himself by having to provide extra special proof of his legitimacy to small-minded people motivated by an ignorance and hatred no action he ever takes will affect?
He is doing the proper thing–ignoring your pitiful bile and going instead about the country’s business.
The requirement for president is that he’s a citizen, and what Hawaii gives out proves that. He is not obligated to provide you with any more than that just because you want to harass him.
Also, look at this image for yourself: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/1961_Hawaii_Certificate_Of_Live_Birth.jpg
It shows that in 1961 they still used the more detailed versions, unless you think this picture is a fraud, that is. Obama was born when they kept this record, so unless Hawaii decided to destroy all of its old documents, it still exists and is being withheld. So far, the only reason I’ve gotten for it still being withheld is that Hawaii has a policy of not releasing such documents and Obama isn’t able to get one from them. If that’s the case, I still find it odd the President couldn’t have the hospital give him one.
He wasn’t obligated to post his birth certificate on fightthesmears.org either, but he chose to. The question is why he couldn’t have also posted the long-form that DOES exist. And since I was correct for using the word “canidacy” instead of “presidency”, I shall correct you as well. You must be a “natural-born citizen” not just a “citizen.”
No one in my family is from those states, so I can’t speak for them. Unlike you I try to limit my statements to things i know, rather than throwing out inaccurate generalizations.
No, it is probably what Hawaii issued in 1961. That doesn’t mean that everyone born in Hawaii in 1961 still has one in their possession. Documents have a way of getting lost. If you order one today, you get what Obama got. It’s perfectly valid and legal. Normal people when they need a document write to the appropriate office, take what they get and move on. Why is that so difficult for you to do?
I meant to say “I was corrected for using the word “canidacy” instead of “presidency”
I gave you a government website as proof, and you’re giving me wikimedia? lmao. They haven’t given that out since 2001, and if he lost his original, that doesn’t mean he’s not a citizen anymore. He applies for a new one and Hawaiii sends out what they give out; it only takes three days. They cannot send him something they no longer give out, nor is he obligated to provide anything other than what they give out
Though you can find the answer on many places on this blog, here are some reasons anyway:
1. It would be a positive for his campaign? Over 69 Million voters were unconcerned. That is more than the “millions” with questions.
2. Would those with questions vote for him anyway? Many of them already dislike him so anything else to help this would be wasted effort.
3. He provided more than any other President has ever provided, and far more than is required to prove eligibility. Why waste valuable time when he should be doing his job as President.
4. Most birthers called the released COLB and refer to the confirmation from the Government of Hawaii as lies. Why bother giving them one more document that will be called a forgery.
5. His “long form” is none of my business. He provided to the appropriate government agencies what was required to be put on the ballot. He was voted for by a majority of those voting, the Electoral College elected him and Congress certified the ballot. If there should be more to prove eligibility, than you need to petition the Congress to change the process. Barring that, he does not have to prove anything to me personally (unless he thinks it will help my and others support and future voting for him).
My “long form” does not have parents’ signatures. Does that raise questions? It has a Doctors signature but I do not know if he is alive and he may not like his signature posted on the internet (they tend to be funny that way). Maybe it was forged.
Hawaii should still have the original copy of the long-form, unless they destroyed their older documents containing it. If they have it, they should release it. Why is it so hard to post the image of it on the interent? They could add it to fightthesmears.org. I had hoped you would be able to answer my question, but from what I’ve been getting in responses, it seems the only answer I have received is that Hawaii refuses to release the more detalied version of the documents.
Believe it or not, the President has no more authority over state records than an ordinary citizen. It’s how federalism works. If he used his office to get Hawaii to treat him differently from everyone else, you would accuse him of improper interference in state affairs. In that case i would have to agree with you.
Yeah, and I suppose you think we’re supposed to use YOUR definition of “natural born” too. The Supreme Court rejected that argument 5 times already. Most of those who voted for him knew his father wasn’t a citizen. The Congress that certified the election knew his father wasn’t a citizen. The chief justice who swore him in knew his father wasn’t a citizen. And every judge that has heard these silly case knew his father wasn’t a citizen.
Proof: no white man was ever asked to show his birth certificate.
At this point I refer you to my Real Logic vs. Birther Logic post.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/birther-math-part-8-complex-numbers/#comments
The doctor’s signature then, on your copy, is presumably the doctor that witnessed your birth. And is it a concern to Obama? Yes, considering that some states may require him to produce the document in order to be put on their ballot in the 2012 elections. While these states probably wouldn’t vote for Obama anyway, it wouldn’t look good for the conservative to get the overwhelming percentage of votes to do a lack of a democratic candidate. It shouldn’t take that much time and effort for him to add that image to fightthesmears.org. It would also give make him look more transparent and less like a person that wants to hide stuff, a point he could use to his advantage during elections.
John McCain was, and he provided documents very quickly. In fact, some accused him of being ineligble to be president since he was born in Panama. Not saying that I loved McCain, but not saying I hated him either. Just pointing that out.
Hawaii has a practice they follow for everyone born in Hawaii. Why do you have a problem with that? I assume the President has an Illinois driver’s license. I bet it looks like every other Illinois license. I bet the deed to his house is treated the same as every other deed in Chicago. Do you think he should get special documents? He’s not a king, just an ordinary citizen occupying the office for a few years.
Do you have a link?
What the heck are you talking about? What exactly is MY definition? I sure don’t remember saying it. If Obama was born in Hawaii, his father didn’t have to be a citizen. If you are presumptuous enough to think that I was making that argument even though I said no such thing, then you echo what my english teacher once told me. People that assume things tend to make an ass/u/me, or an ass out of you and me.
The_Proof_He_Misses – “You must be a “natural-born citizen” not just a “citizen.””
Do you agree that if the President’s life story is exactly as it has been detailed (born in Hawaii, mother – US Citizen, Father – not a US citizen), then he is a “natural born citizen”?
Definitely.
If there is a baseless assertion that birthers make more often than that the President in ineligible for his position, it’s that vast numbers of people are extremely concerned about their issue.
Taitz’s recent run for the GOP nomination of CA SoS has given us some interesting numbers. How many people are interested enough to lift a finger to register Republican and wander down to vote for her? The answer is, about 3% of registered voters. Of course, that number includes both people who voted for her because of her positions, and people who voted for her because of other reasons (compare Alvin Greene). So the number of people even moderately interested in this issue is less than 3%. Note that 3% is not “most people.” The other 97% is “most people.”
Okay, then explain what you meant when you said this:
“You must be a “natural-born citizen” not just a “citizen.””
He did? Links please.
Another question for you: do you believe that anyone born on US soil, no matter what their parents’ status, is a natural born citizen?
Specifically, if a pregnant 16-year-old girl from Juarez takes the trolley to El Paso, and gives birth in that city, is her son eligible to be president?
Here is a link to an article in the Washinton Post where McCain was asked for his birth cerfiticate and had a subpoena filed demanding its release: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html
The states can only require the COLB that is provided by the state. This is the “Full, Faith and Credit” requirement stating in the constitution, Article IV, Section 1. If another state required a “long form,” that law would not last a challenge in court. So again, why should he bothers.
You also missed my comment about putting a doctors signature online. If I were the doctor (or his estate), I would sue to get that off immediately as there would be to much chance for fraud and identity theft.
Again, why is Obama required to have more than any other President in history? Please explain why Hawaii stating he was born there is not enough (even from a Republican Governor)? Why does Obama have different requirements?
Here’s an example: Arnold Schwarzenegger was born in Austria to parents that didn’t have U.S. citizenship. He is currently a U.S. citizen, but not a “natural born citizen”. Therefore, Schwarzenegger will never be president. I am going to assume that you already knew this. (Hopefully I will not make an ass of myself by assuming you knew this)
Yes. Although I do not like it, yes, her son would be eligible.
Did you read the article? Here’s what it says:
“One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is “not a natural born citizen.” In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain’s birth certificate.”
McCain didn’t provide squat nor did he release a blessed thing. So again, you were wrong. And you can’t link me to ANY document showing McCain’s birth.
Okay, so then you meant that since Obama was born here and his mother was a citizen, he is a natural born citizen. Thanks for clearing that up, but it begs the question of why you brought it up in the first place.
Unless you think the image of the 1961 birth certificate is a fraud, then the site has nothing to do with anything.
And yet, when Homeland Security refused the subpoena from one person failed court case, there was not a great outcry that people had “questions.”
Hollander asked; McCain never complied.
Hawaii didn’t provide Obama with a long form, yet you expect him to have one anyway. Odd.
And hospital “souvenir” “birth certificates” are not legal documents.
McCain’s defense was that Hollander didn’t have standing. The judge agreed and dismissed the case because the plaintiff didn’t have standing. Sound familiar?
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Hollander-Order-7-24-08.pdf
Ah i love how these birthers always pop up when one of their ilk get shot down. Notice the tactic the above poster has used in previous posts “I’m not a birther but” the same tactic fake scott brown/sally hill used. Give it a rest can you get your original long form certificate if you request a birth certificate today?
Even asuming Obama were born outside the US, his mother was a US citizen. So his case is different from Schwarzenegger.
By the way, do you see any moral or philiosophical justification why the governor of the largest state in the US, with the 7th largest economy in the world, shouldn’t be able to run for President? There should have to be a better reason than a bunch of guys wearing wigs (even very smart guys) said so 220 years ago .
Why? What would be the point?
See, this is something most of the people who are clamoring for the now-nonexistant long form’s release don’t seem to understand: their concerns do not matter.
The people who DO matter are rational, and understand what they read, and what it means.
They understand that what the State of Hawai’i has provided is legitimate, primary proof that Obama was born in Hawai’i.
They understand that the Governor of Hawai’i has no reason to lie about the matter, and nor do the people underneath the Governor.
The only reason to suspect that something is amiss, here, is because one is inventing a conspiracy out of whole cloth. There are many reasons to do so, and I haven’t found one yet that’s worth acknowledging with anything resembling civilized inquiry.
So you will have to excuse us if the responses to your question – which really do look like concern trolling – are a little frosty or rude. Put bluntly, nothing you’ve asked is new, and nothing we can tell you is going to satisfy you.
You can leave now, if you’d like.
That would be because McCain is white. Birthers don’t have to defend the Constitution against white people even as they protest “it’s not about race..
Prove 7 of your family members can get a long form birth certificate nowadays not 20 years ago but now
We provided the list you asked for. Then you are stating how he still should release it. Is it any wonder why the poster on this site look with suspicion to “concern trolls”? The same game plays out many times as we see the troll/poster/birther is not interested in the reasons as they have already made up their mind and argue the side reasons (such a signature which was part of my comment). You did not even consider most of the reasons given.
I well expected this would be the response but I decided to allow confirmation.
BTW, for the list I posted, your welcome…
I am not entirely sure that he was born here. I cannot say for sure I do know where he was born. I have doubts that seem perfectly reasonable to me. I do believe the birth certificate he provided at fightthesmears.org is a true copy, but what troubles me is the fact that Hawaii issued such documents to people born in other countries. So, does that mean Obama was born in Hawaii, or was he born in Kenya and registered in Hawaii? If he was only registered, then there would be no doctor’s signature. If he was registered, it wouldn’t show up on his birth certificate that he provided. The state can swear it’s a true copy, but it’s only a true copy of his being registered, not of his birth. The only statement that I can find to counter this is from Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo: “If you were born in Bali, for example, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.” So, I have to take her word for it that if Obama was born in Kenya and then registered in Hawaii, his cerficate would say Kenya and not Honolulu. Her testament is currently the only thing I have to go off of. I really do not see how it would be so hard for Hawaii to make an exception to their policy and give Obama his long-version birth certificate for him to post on fightthesmears.org. They could even change their policy to allow it under such circumstances. It certainly seems easier to do that than to have
1) Hawaii pass a state law in response to the numerous requests they have for Obama’s cerficate,
2) Constantly having reporters asking to see the long-form, and
3)Several states considering requiring such documents to be listed on their ballot.
I just don’t get why he doesn’t do such a transparent act.
CALLING DOCTOR CONSPIRACY…..CALLING DOCTOR CONSPIRACY….WE HAVE A PATIENT FOR YOU
I am still waiting in the link to McCain’s birth certificate.
Prove it, birther.
No, it is because both of McCain’s parents were U.S. citizens, Panama was under U.S. control, and there was no doubt he was a citizen by birth. If Arnold tried to become president, then the “birthers” you refer to would go crazy to not allow him to.
Dear everyone except The Proof He Misses:
Why does “The Proof He Misses” ask everyone except Obama to explain Obama’s motives for not yielding to the Birther’s tantrum defining demands? If “The Proof He Misses” had no legitimate logical reason for proceeding with his inquiry in this oblique fashion, we would not have heard it by now.
Benji Franklin
This is the first link I found doing a quick google search.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html
Even if that number was only 10 percent, ten percent of republicans number in the millions.
How does a foreign-born individual get a Hawaiian COLB that lists the place of birth as Honolulu? As you even acknowledge, the Department of Health says born-in-Hawaii means born-in-Hawaii. It is not reasonable to think it is lying, as your doubts are based on absolutely nothing substantial.
Sure; change the law whenever you feel like it. Laws are for little people, right?
Why don’t you run for governor of Hawaii, and make that exception.
And none of your “concerns” in any way lessen the legal signifigance of the COLB.
Also, I would not consider myself a birther since I am unsure where he was born. If I had to choose, I’d say Hawaii, but I’d do so with doubts. Birthers are convinced he was born in Kenya and is an illegal president: I am not convinced either way.
The_Proof_He_Misses – “but what troubles me is the fact that Hawaii issued such documents to people born in other countries.”
Would a BC issued by Hawaii to a person “born in other countries”, indicate place of birth as Honolulu, Hawaii?
It would take only a day–okay, weeks tops–to change the policy for the better and the governor would not need to be involved in any way. All of this resistence to the long-form being released is just fuel for these birthers that you so hate. Releasing the document would diminish, although not entirely extinguish, their rallying cries.
“I’m not a birther. I just play one on obamaconspiracy.org.”
He? Who is he? By your own words it’s the State of Hawaii that would have to change their policy. States don’t issue one birth certificate to the 2,000,000 people born there and a special one for one guy.
Now, perhpas you could answer this question: Suppose Hawaii released Obama’s birth certificate with doctor’s signature and all the other stuff that means so much to you. Would you then vote for him in 2012? If the answer is no, then why do you care?
Do you think the government of Hawaii has nothing better to do? Seriously?
There are ways to change laws, regulations, and policies; go figure them out and advocate for the change. You don’t break them to satify whiny ankle-biters.
Rational people understand the COLB is completely sufficient; you don’t break a sweat to attempt to appease the unappeasable.
Her testament is currently the only thing I have to go off of. I really do not see how it would be so hard for Hawaii to make an exception to their policy and give Obama his long-version birth certificate for him to post on fightthesmears.org
——————————————————————–
Please show me where in the Constitution says you have a right to a “long form” birth certificate. Show me any law where he is obligated to prove anything other than he was born in the United States.
I’ve seen sorces that say yes, since the place of birth would be then the place he was registered. However, some of the sources are questionable. I’ve seen sources that say it would not list the place as Honolulu. However, the only credible source I’ve seen on this point is from Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo. It’s her word against all the accusations. It would be better to have more than just the word of one person. If anybody has other sources other than Okubo saying that Hawaii would not have listed Honolulu as the birthplace if he was born in Kenya, please post them. I’ll make sure the birther relatives I have can see them. (and no, not all of my relatives are birthers. I’m also related to very pro-Obama people, and when the two have debates, it’s very interesting to watch.) I came here to get more facts, not to be stereotyped as a birther and bashed.
By the way, you’re a birther. Your “doubts” are not rational.
If you’re so concerned about this, why haven’t you petitioned the state of Hawaii to change the rules? Why should the President, who has followed all the legal rules, have to do the work for a tiny minority?
If you’re so concerned, you do the leg work.
THE STATE OF HAWAII says so. Who is more of authority on Hawaiian law than Hawaii?
If you have a source that says it is possible for a foreign birth to be listed as born in Hawaii, why can’t you provide a source for that?
“Panama was under U.S. control”
No. The Canal Zone was under US control at that time, not the country of Panama.
From the WashPo article: “New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is “not a natural born citizen.” In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain’s birth certificate.
The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees citizenship services, declined to hand over copies of the document, saying the subpoena was improperly served.”
“A senior official of the McCain campaign showed a reporter a copy of the senator’s birth certificate issued by Canal Zone health authorities, recording his birth in the Coco Solo “family hospital.”
—–>I want to point out that photographs of the BC were not allowed, by the ONE reporter who was allowed to look at it.
Also, from the article Proof linked to: “Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain’s birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department’s bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain.”
Hawaii did not provide birth certificate to those in other countries that said city of birth honolulu state of birth Hawaii. Your concerns are BS to the point that even I think you know it. Tell me how many other presidents have you seen their long form? Let alone a COLB.
IF Obama was registered in Hawaii (born in Kenya) and IF on that registration it listed his birthplace as Honolulu (since that’s where he was registered) and IF Janice Okubo is mistaken in denying that such a thing could take place, then the birth certificate on fightthesmears.org does not prove he was born in the U.S. Otherwise, the birth cerftificate he has provided proves it. As for your constitution question, it doesn’t specifically give the right to any birth certificate, so if we are to interpret it that way, the hospital isn’t obligated to give us any such copies.
Contrary to your belief Panama was rented land. US Military bases according to the state department do not count as US Soil thus negating NBC status. Also according to the original intent those born overseas out of US soil are citizens not natural born. Well at least that is when I use birther beliefs against you.
Great; now provide proof to support any of those three allegations, and you just might be in business.
IF is a big word, especially when Hawaii has said that they have verified his original birth information and that it’s “just a fact” that he was born there.
Who says I haven’t?
Your own comment points out why your doubts are not reasonable. A certificate for someone born in Bali, would say born in Bali. Why is taking the word of a government official, speaking in her official capacity, who is in charge of issuing the document, such a difficult stretch? And if here statements weren’t enough…how about simple logic? Place of bith on a COLB, probably means place of birth. If it was intended to record place of registration, don’t you think they would have a spot called such? If you’re willing to reject the statements of a government official, speaking in her official capacity, on a subject of her competence, why should you accept what appears on the long form as legitimate either? Once you start accepting arbitrary rejections, there is no reason to accept anything. It comes down to the fact that you think you’re special and deserve the confirmation in the form that you want. Sorry, but the world doesn’t work that way. The COLB is prima facie evidence of birth, so by law, Obama has established his birth in Hawaii.
But you don’t see why it would be so difficult for Hawaii’s legislature to pass a law making an exception to the privacy laws protecting Obama’s birth records, then possibly having to get the US Congress to do likewise to pass a law that exempts Obama’s records from various Federal privacy laws, so that people like you can feel better about knowing who the doctor who delivered the president was? I mean it’s not like we’re facing two wars and trying to get out of a recession or anything. I’m sure all these government official have nothing better to do than passing laws so you can see what a document you conceed is legitimate is based on.
Birthers automatically think that the professionals who are responsible for running a US state are lying or that they cannot be trusted simply because it’s at odds with their false premise that the president wasn’t born in Hawaii. If the governor of Connecticut said that they have no doubt that Bush was born in Connecticut, they would accept it without question.
And we have another person that told GLOBE magazine he found no such thing. So now we have one former employee saying the long-form never existed, and other employees saying it does exist, they’ve seen it, and they can swear he was born here. By releasing the document to Obama and having him post it alongside his short-version, Hawaii could definitively prove itself correct and the person in GLOBE wrong. Providing a document to prove your case is much more convincing that just giving your word.
[[citation needed]]
Except that never happened.
Adams conduct a radio interview with a racist host, at a racists’ convention, and Adams said his boss said there was no long form.
WND picked the story up (but left out the racists part). The Globe then picked it up from WND.
So because sources you admit probably aren’t credible say something, contrary to the only credible source you know of, you go with the admitedly non-credible source, and accept a doubt? You have an answer from probably the only person who really matters on the subject. Who can make a more credible statement on the subect than Okubo?
I am not a birther, I am a person looking for the facts. As I’ve already said, I’m unsure as to where he was born. If Bush had an Italian father and he could’ve been over there when he was born, I’d be demanding to see his birth certificate as well. The Constitution Party, as well as others, would also demand to see it.
He didn’t find any such thing. What he said was that SOMEONE TOLD HIM THERE IS NO SUCH THING. If I tell you that I have a mermaid that lives in my swimming pool, are you going to believe it without seeing it? He said that someone told him that they received this claim in an email or a telephone call, which means he can’t even prove that there was such an email or telephone call because he wasn’t present when the phone call or email was received.
WHAT HE SAID WAS HEARSAY, AND IS NOT PROF OF THE MATTER BECAUSE HE DIDN’T SEE IT HIMSELF; SOMEONE TOLD HIM THEY SAW IT, AND HE DOESN’T EVEN SAY WHO THAT IS SO THAT HIS CLAIM CAN BE CORROBORATED.
Proof: you are new here, and I want to point out to you that Linda Lingle is Jewish. She felt that McCain/Palin were far better for Israel, than Obama.
If she could have found any dirt, the GOP would have used it with glee.
Sorry.
You’re not looking for facts; you are going to great efforts to ignore the facts that you don’t like.
I have said in a previous statement that if I had to choose, I’d say Obama was born in Hawaii. Thus I would not side with the “birthers.” However, I have doubts, and it is a bit suspicious that the long-form hasn’t been released. There are millions that share my concerns, and it would be ignorant to just simply dismiss those people as ignorant racist people that believe whatever FOX news tells them. If Obama was a republican and McCain a democrat, it wouldn’t surprise me if more democrats would then question the natural born status.
The_Proof_He_Misses brings up the died and buried Tim Adams Story,the Hawaii elections office referred to him as ,a temp clerk not an official, the electiosn office has no access to Dep of Health records, Obama was registered to vote in Illinios so why would this lying sack Hawaiiian clerk be checking on Obama. My you birthers fall for anything!
It’s also entirely possible that George H W Bush wasn’t Bush’s father. Have you seen Barbara Bush? No sane person would enter her.
[[citation needed]]
Ahh…so the words of a temp, who worked for a branch of the government, that had no access to the documents in question, and that had no reason to examine the question of his birth records, making hearsay statements about what unnamed others purportedly knew, requires that the wheels of government come to a screeching halt to prove something that no other president has ever been required to prove?
Why is it suspicious? How many long form or COLBs of presidents have you seen?
I originally came here to ask why his long-form birth certificate has not been released. So far these are the answers I have been able to derive:
1) Hawaii doesn’t need to release it, and because they don’t have to by law, there is no reason for them to cave into public concern and release it
2) We should accept the testimony of Hawaii in that they’ve seen the long-version and ignore the testimony of anybody that says otherwise, even if they were former employees, since those people are wrong and that’s that.
3) Ditto
Just to add to your post. His supervisor even said, “WE do not have access to those records” meaning that even his supervisor didn’t have access to those records, and if his supervisor didn’t have access to them, he didn’t have access to them. The governor had to ask the director of the health department to check them because even she didn’t have access to them. And we’re supposed to believe that he had access to records that even the governor doesn’t have? lol. Those records are protected by state and federal law, and they are locked down tight.
Moreover, nowhere did this loon ever say that he had access to birth records, and he never said that he did access them
4. He has no obligation to release it
1. It is Hawaii’s policy to release only a COLB, yet you think Hawaii should break (or alter) its policy because it has nothing else better to do.
2. Adams doesn’t know jack about long forms since he’s relying on what his (unnamed) boss allegedly told him. Also Adams worked in the city’s elections department, not the state’s health department.
First of all, no other president has ever had his birthplace questioned like this. Since Obama’s is the first, yes, he is the first one questioned. And no, he’s not the first because he’s black, but because his dad is from Kenya and Obama spent time overseas as a child. McCain’s was also questioned since he was born on a military base in the Panama Canal region. Again, we take Hawaii’s verbal word that the man who told GLOBE his story had no access to the records. Their VERBAL word. It would be easier to extinguish his fire by providing the long-form and putting an end to his and many other people’s accusations.
Temps are not full time employees. You might as well call them consultants. Lets see what we’ve gathered from you.
1. You want Obama to provide further evidence that hes NBC when you required it from no other president.
2. You take the word of a part time temp who worked for the elections office for 2 months during a time when no elections were held, had no access to Illinois voter files, wouldn’t have access to birth records and decided to speak up 2 years after the fact to a white supremacist organization over a state official who serves under a Republican administration.
3. You’re not a birther you just spew birther talking points and ignore reason
4. You claim 7 relatives have long forms but won’t say if they recently acquired them
Citations still have yet to be provided.
1. It would not take much effort to alter the policy.
2. Let’s bring Adams before Congress to have him testify. There, we can have him name his boss, exactly what he did, exactly how he had access to the records, and have him detail very specifically how he knows the long-form doesn’t exist and Obama was not born in Hawaii.
For what? I’ve been responding to a lot of comments, so I may have missed/don’t remember yours because i’m reading so many. What cittation did you want?
He has already said it. The first time he said, “They told us…..” The second time he said, “My boss told me….” without ever naming that person, and no one has come forward to verify that information. In any court and Congress, that’s hearsay, and they wouldn’t even waste their time with it.
The_Proof_He_Misses -“the only credible source I’ve seen”
What other credible sources could there be? What other kinds of sources would you consider to be more credible or as credible as the DOH?
I would assume Honolulu’s election department would know that it doesn’t have access to the records of the state’s health department; it is just his job to know those sort of things….(And why would the elections department even be looking for records someone who was registered in another state at the time? Where’s all this “doubt” that you were earlier professing?)
And, no, it wouldn’t be easier; birthers would move on to the next conspiracy, like the long form was forged.
They always ask for things they know they cannot get. They know that Hawaii doesn’t give out a long form anymore, so they ask for a long form when they know full well that they can’t get one.
Here, let me introduce you to the ‘Page Up’ key.
1. So really do think Hawaii has nothing better to do answer this nonsense.
2. I wrote to Adams and asked one simple question, “Who was your supervisor?” NO RESPONSE. Given the multiple holes in Adams’ story, as well as his refusal to answer a simple question, why does Congress have to get dragged into this as well? Should the UN shut down its business as well?
1. I have had no doubts like this from other presidents. I also wrote to McCains campaign team to have them release his birth certificate because I had doubts about him as well.
2. I take the word of Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo over Adams’ word (I’ve already said I would side with Obama being born in the U.S.) However, I do consider the fact that Adams is only rebutted verbally and not with physical evidence to be a little suspicious.
3. I could just as well say you are an anti-birther spewing your same old talking points and that you’re ignoring reason. Saying that somebody is just reciting “talking points” is useless because both sides do it. You’re using the same arguments against my questions as many other people, but it does no good to bash you as a person.
4. Nobody has yet asked if they required it recently, and if they have, I must have missed it. No, they have not acquired it recently. They are all from pre-2000. (that is why i said to check certificates from before 2000, as to my understanding many of them will have a signature of a witness, usually the doctor. However, some people have told me that is not the case. I am not sure if I requested a copy now if it would contain the signatures, but if it didn’t, I’d demand the long-form. If the state refused to release my own information to me, you could expect a lawsuit to be filed against Minnesota immediately.)
If they got a long form, they would just claim that it’s a fake, so why go to all that trouble when they’re never going to believe anything he shows them? All they’re going to do is say that it’s just more of the conspiracy
Hearsay is not credible, and that renders anything Adams’s can testify to not credible because all he has is hearsay
That would imply you’ve been employing reason.
Yes, some would, but if the long-form was released, posted on fightthesmears.org, reporters could see it and sites like factcheck.org could verify it, it would shut A LOT of them down. And having relatives that you could call birthers, it would effectively eliminate their main argument. These relatives of mine don’t dispute the authenticity of the birth certificate Obama has provided, but without the long-form, they say we cannot know if Obama was just registered. And if that’s the case, they say, then there is no long form, and that’s why it’s not being released (because it doesn’t exist).
Did you read my post about Linda Lingle?
Adams says he has seen that there is no document, so it wouldn’t be hearsay since it came straight from him. Also, if Adams lied under oath, then you could fine him and jail him (something I’m sure you’d like). So it’s a win-win for democrats and Obama, provided Adams is lying and just doing this for media attention.
1. It’s Hawaiian LAW, you chucklehead, which means that it would require that the law be amended to satisfy the curiosity of people who have way too much time on their hands.
2. There is zero reason to bring a mentally unstable liar before Congress.
3. If you weren’t obviously fluent in English, I’d think you were NC1. You’re just as stubborn, obdurate, and irrational as her.
No, I don’t believe I have.
There’s no basis to believe foreign births could be registered in as being born in Hawaii.
Adams said that? Citation, please.
The birthers have about eight fallback positions on why Barack Obama can never be president. The “long form” will solve exactly nothing because it’s not about the facts. It’s about irrational fear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjRthxvSFg&playnext_from=TL&videos=VO775MfRWzQ
It’s a law, then, that the long-form version of somebody’s birth certificate cannot be released? Well if that’s the case, I was mistaken thinking it was just the Health Department’s policy. Could you provide a link to your source?
I have a difficult respecting birthers because they are usually so flawed when it comes to normal human understanding much less logic. Are you one of the orange people?
Sorry, Doc.
Pick up a copy of this month’s GLOBE magazine. You’ll find your citation there.
misha: Did you read my post about Linda Lingle?
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/oh-no/#comment-55139
Are you insane?
I don’t know what your reference to “orange people” means.
Proof: “Linda Lingle is Jewish. She felt that McCain/Palin were far better for Israel, than Obama.
If she could have found any dirt, the GOP would have used it with glee.”
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/oh-no/#comment-55139
So the Globe (noted beacon of accuracy), ripped its story from WND, and in WND’s version, Adams specifically said his boss told him.
So The Globe, which never interviewed Adams, has it right, but WND, which did, has it wrong?
I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong, which is why it would be a good idea to make Adams testify. If he’s lying, we could then fine him and give him jail time.
Wow. You can’t be smart.
The problem with birthers like yourself is that all you have is speculation. In order to challenge Obama’s eligibility for office, you need actual evidence that Hawaiian officials are either mistaken or lying. So far no legitimate evidence has come forward to question the legitimacy of the image of the COLB that was put online over two years ago. If you can give us any legitimate reason to doubt the COLB, you’d be the first in over two years to come up with something. But looking over your posts to this site, I don’t hold up any high hopes for you.
You see here’s the difference. McCain natural born status is actually that is a matter of debate in the legal community. However, most democrats just accepted it (and he lost, so what’s the point). Your doubts are based on the fact that a version of his birth record that is no longer issued by the state was not release by his campaign, but rather a legal document that is prima facie evidence of his birth was instead. I won’t call you racist, because I don’t know what your wholly unfounded doubts are based on…but I will call you irrational and immune to facts.
\
You’re a poseur.
I’d like to stay and continue conversing with all the people that dislike (or hate) me, but my personal life is calling and I must go for now. For those not consumed with hatred for anybody that dares to disagree with them, thanks for talking to me. For those that could do nothing but bash and accuse, thanks for the laugh.
Show me where he says that. Give me a link
I know who is right: the people that actually interviewed Adams. The Globe stole the story from WND, and got it wrong.
But Congress isn’t needed to confirm that Adams is a liar because his story is full of holes and he didn’t answer my one very simple question. What’s Adams hiding?
Adams has no physical evidence to support his claims. He has nothing at all to support his claims. He was a low level temp staffer who has changed his story with each iteration of it. But once again you’re stating there’s doubt of a state official over a temp worker. So tell me do you take the word of a seasonal worker over that of a full time CEO when it comes to your own job?
Sure I’m an anti-birther but I have actual evidence and facts on my side all you have is supposition.
Okay so how far back do their long form acquisitions go? Give me a specific year. You yourself can’t acquire one. I’ve lost my birth certificate multiple times over the years through moves. The document I was given by the state of my birth is a short form COLB exactly like Obama’s. Ive used it for employment, a passport, and other various government documentation.
You do know that the long form won’t have any different information about him being born in Honolulu Hawaii than that of the COLB. You’re a concern troll who has no genuine interest in the subject
So because no President was subject to an ungovernable mass of malcontents that would find any reason to attack is legitmacy, and ignore all facts, and cling to the words of frauds and hucksters, he should take action? Do you realize how foolish you sound? And speaking of McCain, we’re still waiting to see his birth certificate. We have no idea what he showed that little old reporter. Funny how no one really pushed to see his birth certificate.
And again, you put weight on the words of a temp over all the words of official statements of the state of Hawaii. Just because you’re willing to give consideration to every crack pot out there doesn’t mean your concerns are remotely legitimate.
I have seen both videos, and in neither one does he say that he has seen anything. The Globe article is just a reprint of the claims he made on World Nutjob Daily, so your assertion that he says something different than what he said in WND is just false. . In their article, all he says is, the first time, “They told us… The second time he says, “My boss told me…..” without ever naming that person. THAT’S HEARSAY. Now if you’re claiming he said something different than what WND reported, prove it
First off, Adams has said it was an open secret in the office and he heard it from his supervisors…that is unless he has changed his story yet again….and the fact that you look to the Globe for the source of your doubts says quite a bit about the lenghts you will go to find your “doubts”
Yes…that makes tons of sense. Congress has nothing better to do but to stop everything they’re doing to have hearings because a story in the Globe.
Good thing we’re not fighting two wars or in a recession that the government has nothing better to do than to alieviate your fears founded in supermarket tabloids.
Don’t confuse hate with a mocking disdain for your irrational “doubts.”
We all love you, and wish you a speed recovery from your paranoid delusions 🙂
you’re making me laugh. lol
It’s not that anyone here hates you. It’s just that a lot of people have heard many times over the last two years the very arguments you’re bringing up here. Most of us are just so exasperated that anyone would still believe them after having been debunked so many times.
I disagree. I lived in the South U.S. in the 60s.
I had close family members murder by bigots.
THE_PROOF_HE_MISSES is the PROOF_HE_MISSES
Guys.
You have nothing on topix.com.
There are threats to the President every few second.
Look it up yourself if you’re so curious. Otherwise, kindly quit the concerning trolling.
I don’t think Proofster is insane, just a typical concern trolling birther bigot who whines a lot about the *reasonableness* of his/her/its position to conceal the fact that s/he/it doesn’t like having a black man as President.
Darn it! Now I will never get to see john McCain’s birth certificate.
This long form issue all comes down to the burden-of-proof question. The Government of Hawai`i has provided a signed & sealed document (COLB) to Obama which proves his birth in 1961 in Hawai`i. That is all he needs to provide. It is up to his detractors to provide evidence that the COLB is invalid. That’s the way our courts & system of justice work. If you, or anyone else, has any evidence that will hold up in court then provide it.
The Globe claimed that President Bush was drunk throughout his presidency and that he had an affair with Condoleeza Rice that caused his wife to leave the White House and move into a hotel. Do you believe that?
Hint: The Globe lies.
I’m sorry to hear that. Not to defend Misses or anything, but I don’t think he’s that extreme in his thinly-veiled racism.
Which one has the page 5 girl?
Missed Proof does bring up a good point (sort of) – at what point does being unsure turn into birtherdom?
For example – I’m not 100% certain that everything about 9/11 has been satisfactorily explained. However, I refuse to call myself a “truther” because I don’t think the US government made it happen on purpose, or let it happen on purpose. I just call myself curious about certain aspects. However, there are those who insist that I am a truther because I am curious about those aspects.
So is there a line between having a question and being a birther? I think our new friend is undeniably a birther (he has doubts, after all) but can one not have questions and still avoid birtherdom?
No, not really. Even PolitiFact defines birthers as “…people who doubt that President Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen of the United States and is therefore ineligible to serve as president. Or at least, they say, Obama has yet to sufficiently prove things one way or the other.”
As for trutherism, the definition of that is someone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job done by the government. They think that the WTC towers fell due to a controlled demolition. If you still have doubts despite hearing all the evidence against those positions, then you are a truther.
Media Matters for America has picked up the Globe story. Check out their article for some incredible information about George W. Bush THAT I NEVER KNEW!
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201007060016
The_Proof_He_Misses:
“even if they were former employees”
Could you name the other employees that you say disagree with the State of Hawaii? I’m familar with only one employee, who admits he has no first hand information.
But testify to what? He hasn’t said anything concrete, like who told him the rumor that someone in the office had called hospitals who they had no business calling, and getting information that the hospitals had no business giving out. It’s called innuendo.
Actually, the Globe article doesn’t say that Adams “saw” anything. It said:
But of course the Department of health keeps birth records, not the Honolulu Elections Division, so they didn’t have anybody’s birth records!
To clarify: the Department of Health, by policy, doesn’t issue long form birth certificates to anyone. By law they do not issue birth certificates of any kind to people who are not entitled to them (like you and me).
The statute then goes on to define who’s entitled to get a certificate.
Exactly what does that mean: “has seen that there is no document”? We already know that the place where Adams worked didn’t have birth records for anyone. When presented with that fact, Adams changed his story to say that a supervisor told him that there was no certificate after calling hospitals.
And they didn’t send it to you, nor did they release it to anyone else.
Adams has never presented any evidence that could be rebutted. Maybe some unnamed person DID tell him that they called hospitals. The birth certificate Obama released in 2008 is the exact physical evidence that proves Adams is wrong.
Hawaiian birth certificates from 1961 do have the signature of a witness, normally the physician. Today Hawaii only issues certificates with information abstracted from the long forms and those abstracts do not reproduce the signatures. However, the director of Vital Statistics signs the certificate to certify that it is a true copy of the original.
Put it on C-SPAN. I’d stay home from work to watch him melt down.
No so. A book was written trying to prove that President Arthur was born in Canada.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/hinman/
Because President Obama is no fool.
Just look at what happened when he released a birth certificate before. It was like throwing gasoline on a fire, they way it energized the conspiracy theorists to new heights of speculation and bigger conspiracy theories. A veritable cottage industry sprung up defaming Hawaii, it’s elected and appointed officials. Fake document experts called the COLB a forgery.
The only effect evidence has on a conspiracy theorist is to prove how big the conspiracy is.
But of course President Obama released his birth certificate in 2008. You’re a birther because you have the characteristic “birther blind spot” to that fact. True birthers also have a list of excuses for the blind spot which involve other blind spots. My favorite blind spot is when the birther says that one can be born anywhere and get a Hawaiian COLB and cannot see the Birthplace of Honolulu printed on the it.
My challenge to birthers (and that includes you, The Proof He Misses):
Provide one example of a Hawaii COLB which was issued to someone who was born in another state or country but says that the person was born in Hawaii. Just one.
The “Short Form” certifies the existence of the long form. It’s not somebody’s “word”; it’s an official state document.
I’m sorry, in what parallel universe does “Location of Birth” mean “place of registration”?
And with that, another exciting episode of Fun With Freaks has come to an end.
Tune in tomorrow for a brand new episode…which will only seem like a rerun, because as they say – Freaks are Freaks!
Jews were lynched and burned out by the Klan. The three most famous cases were Frank, Schwerner and Goodman.
I had so much anti-semitism flung in my face in Anchorage, I gave up after 3 months. Most of it came from Palin’s crowd.
What would be the rationale for the State of Hawaii to list the place of registration (ALL births in Hawaii are registered in Honolulu) as the place of birth on BC’s for child born in China or Peru.
Unless, they intentionally wanted to create confusion, there is no logical or practical reason for a department charged with the task of keeping Vital Statistic to do anything like that.
But then maybe you know something, we don’t. So please explain.
Just one more point- Proof guy cites Okubo but never mentions Dr. Fukino’s statement that she has seen the original documents and that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen. Nothing unequivocal about her statement at all
There is no proof that the COLB presented to the public in June 2008 was issued by the DoH. You are well aware of that fact. The DoH refuses to provide a simple Yes/No answer to the question whether they issued a COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.
Here is where birthers get everything wrong. A birth certificate is a document that represent the fact of a birth. It is the fact of birth that has to be confirmed and not when a document was issued or re-issued. All the DoH has to confirm is where or not the president was born August 4,1961, in Honolulu and that they have his birth record. Which they have.
In simpler terms the confirmation of the birth record has greater relevance than when the birth certificate was issued or re-issued.
The only “refusal” is those who look for logically disjoint arguments to refuse the fact of a natural born citizenship by Hawaiian birth in 1961.
The date is right there on the certificate. That’s proof enough that they did issue it on that date. The fact that Hawaii did not dispute the birth certificate and instead verified the information on it is more proof. Why should they take the extra step of providing an answer to your inane question when all you’ll do is find some other reason to doubt President Obama’s natural born citizenship status?
I think the space alien meets bush story the Globe exposed is very worrisome.
The question on most people’s minds is why Bush refuses to deny that he met a space alien. The White House claims they do not release the President’s appointment book, but you’d think that Bush would be able to obtain a copy if he really wanted to. After all, if Bush could release an authentic appointment book showing there were no meetings with space aliens, much of this alien conspiracy stuff would be silenced. Yes, not all of it would go away, but a lot would. I mean, what’s he got to lose by releasing it? He may just have to if he wants to be on the ballot in several states next year, er, I mean continue drinking himself to oblivion in Crawford. His refusal to produce his appointment book just makes people that aren’t sure that he hasn’t met with an alien that more unsure. Can anybody tell me a logical reason why Bush won’t release the full appointment book?
This has been asked and answered hundreds of times, mainly to you over at the Washington Independent. Are you unable to read English, o Serbian native?
I remember this quite well from the time. Not long afterward, the Weekly World News published a front page story of presidential candidate H. Ross Perot talking to the same alien. In that issue there was an article that changed the world as we know it: Super Computer Talks to the Dead.
This is another example of the “birther blind spot.” They focus on minutiae, the irrelevant fact that the Department of Health has not commented on a document that they don’t have to comment on, while ignoring the fact that the DoH has verified in writing everything on that certificate that is relevant to the question of eligibility.
Yes, it is a rerun. The day before yesterday we had someone leaving about 40 comments, all along the lines of old, discredited statements, and eliciting a flurry of responses from the folks here. Then yesterday, another similar poster leaving 43 comments and again eliciting a flurry of responses. It drives the comment odometer up (past 49,000 now), but otherwise wastes time rehashing the same hash.
It’s a really simple answer Doc that requires little effort. Yes or No. This has been my main sticking point. That is all I have to say.
Actually, Dr. Fukino HAS commented on the document posted on the web. From her testimony February 23, 2010 in the Hawaii SENATE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY AND GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
“For more than a year, the Department of Health has continued to receive approximately 50 e-mail inquiries a month seeking access to President Barack Obama’s birth certificate in spite of the fact that President Obama has posted a copy of the certificate on his former campaign website.” Page 4
You have no point. The document is self-evident. They have commented on it you and your ilk just haven’t paid attention
This issue all comes down to the burden-of-proof question. The Government of Hawai`i has provided a signed & sealed document (COLB) to Obama which proves his birth in 1961 in Hawai`i. That is all he needs to provide. It is up to his detractors to provide evidence that the COLB is invalid. That’s the way our courts & system of justice work. If you, or anyone else, has any evidence that will hold up in court then provide it.
It’s deja vu all all over again
my guess is if they legally can……. they already have.
call the DOH up and ask them.
It is interesting to contemplate the effect on the birth of our country if there had been internet in 1776 & if the Tories had demanded to see proof that the D of I had really been signed on July 4th.
” saucy wenches wishing to converse in your colony ”
A simple answer only in an alternate reality. The state of Hawaii has done more that was expected to confirm the validity of Obama’s birth. Bithers are looking for a specific answer, when in fact a comprehensive response has been made. The good news is that we now know how far our governments will go confirm our citizenship, even though there was never any doubt.
misha, Batboy was a product of the now defunct paper, The Weekly World News.
I miss that paper! I would get hours of laughter with each new issue.
Why does a reader who places so much faith in the GLOBE worries MORE about Obama’s birthplace than Bush meeting with a space alien, that’s what I’d like to know,
I’m still trying to figure out which one had the page 5 girls. That’s all those rags were even worth. I’d just open it up to page 5 and put it back
Because “space aliens” are our saviors?
Let me try another one to demonstrate “burden-of-proof”. If the Red Sox are playing at home & after the top of the ninth inning are ahead, they don’t have to play the bottom of the ninth. The “visitors” would have had to prove themselves through the 9 chances they got.
This stuff is so insane. No one is protected by privacy laws if they present fraudulent state documents. If the COLB presented by the Obama campaign was, in fact, a forgery, the state of Hawaii has every legal right to say so and would, in fact, do that. The fact that they have not done so is unambiguous to the sane.
nc1, there is also no “proof” that you are an actual human being. You haven’t passed the Turing test.
“This stuff is so insane.”
Of course it is. Birthers build up their own narrative of ‘what if’s’ to make their desired outcome possible.
We have already had Birthers state that Government officials have been known to lie, thereby implying that Fukino has lied in her statements. We have also had Birthers state that somehow everyone is either afraid of being called a racist(yeah that would deter Michael Steele) or is essentially bought off by the ‘Chicago Machine’, so to a Birther, the clear and obvious answer is not that Hawaii would immediately point out that Candidate Obama had posted a forgery, but instead that Hawaii is somehow complicit in the coverup.
“The DoH refuses to provide a simple Yes/No answer to the question whether they issued a COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.”
Considering that you refuse to accept a clear and unequivocal statement from DOH that President Obama was born in Hawaii, why would they expect that you accept it if they said they did issue the COLB on june 6, 2007?
Unfortunately, the State’s reply is only available in kit form. You have to assemble it yourself. (Ages 10 and up)
U win at the Internetz with ur great LOLZ.
The thing I find so amusing about birthers is how they twist the entire concept of a birth certificate in order to explain why Obama’s COLB doesn’t stand for what it says it stands for.
Some examples…
1. Birthers contend that “place of birth” really means only “place of registration.” But that doesn’t make any sense. We know where the place of registration is by virtue of the authority that issued the document in the first place. Second, why would a vital document omit a key fact for which the document is sought in the first place – the location of birth – and replace it with a bureaucratic one – the exact location of registration – which is of little concern to anybody?
2. Birthers contend that “anyone” can “easily” obtain a Hawaiian COLB. Perhaps. But of course you can’t get one that says you born in Hawaii unless Hawaii officials are satisfied you were actually born IN HAWAII. Imagine, however, that the birthers were right, and that you can obtain a birth certificate with your desired place of birth on it – almost like a personalized souvenir. Why would any foreign-born person go through the trouble of naturalizing as a U.S. citizen when he or she could simply obtain a document that says in effect they’re a natural born citizen?
3. Birthers contend that the COLB is not reliable as to the place of Obama’s birth because it is not a “long-form” birth certificate. But the purpose of the COLB, as a certified copy of the original, is to represent what the original states. If the certified copy is not a faithful reproduction of particular data from the original, why would anybody want it? And why would the state feel the need to certify it?
4. Birthers contend that the COLB is not a birth certificate, just a laser-printed piece of paper. But who cares how the document was printed? Virtually all licenses and certificates these days are laser-printed. And of course, the COLB is not just a piece of paper – it has a seal stamped on it by an authorized state official. Furthermore, Hawaii statutes specifically provide that a certified copy of a birth certificate has the “same legal effect” as the original. That means both the original and the copy are meant to be official, and therefore prima facie, evidence of the fact of one’s birth. Since that is the essence of what a birth certificate is, both the original and the copy are equally birth certificates.
5. Some birthers have even contended that “certified copy” means only “photocopy,” and that Obama’s COLB therefore isn’t actually a lawful “copy” of his long-form because it presents data in a different visual format from the original. Of course, birthers never cite any basis or purpose for this distinction, nor can they explain why the copy receives a stamp if it cannot be a vital record.
6. Some birthers contend that Obama’s original certificate was merely “accepted” and not “registered.” But if Obama’s birth was not properly registered with the State of Hawaii – i.e. that it was rejected – how could (and why would) the DoH have provided notice of Obama’s birth to two Hawaiian newspapers in August 1961? On what basis could Hawaii justify issuing a COLB to a person who by law does not have an official record of birth to begin with? And if there is some sort of “review” process to which birth certificate “applications” are subjected before they are registered, why have we never heard of this before? Which persons sit on such review committees? Why isn’t there an approval date along with a registration date?
7. Some suggest that Obama’s original birth certificate may have originally indicated a Kenyan birth, but was subsequently amended to show a Hawaiian birth. Let’s assume for a second that were the case. Given that the information on the birth certificate has critical ramifications throughout one’s life (it is the source of eligibility for benefits like a driver’s license or Social Security, obligations like selective service registration, and one’s status as a birthright citizen), it is only natural that any amendment to such a document would have to be based on ROCK SOLID new information, clearly and conspicuously demonstrating the original information was clearly in error. If Obama’s mother had in fact amended his place of birth at some point after his birth, this would suggest that she had overwheming evidence to convince the state it was wrong in stating a Kenyan birth. But of course, we need not seriously enterain this scenario, because in 1961 Hawaii law only permitted the registration of Hawaiian-born persons in Hawaii. The DoH could not have issued birth notices to Hawaiian newspapers if Obama’s birth had not already been registered – and we know it was registered on August 13, 1961 by the COLB. And we know that registration could have only occurred if Hawaii authorities were satisfied Obama was Hawaii-born – which of course means the certificate itself must have reflected that understanding: i.e. Obama was born in Hawaii.
I have long hoped that given enough basic information, birthers would eventually come to understand these basics, but as time goes on, that hope has diminished.
This is similar to the firestorm that erupted following the release of the COLB. The attempts to explain reality just engender more guano. These conspiracy theories will continue long after 1/20/2017. There is no hope.
Great Summary JohnC You have to remember we’re not dealing with sane, rational people but rather paranoid, schitzophrenic personalities with questionable intelligence.
Kovacs Still Whitewashing Birther Hero’s Racist Ties
Topic: WorldNetDaily
In a July 6 interview on Denver’s KHOW radio, WorldNetDaily’s Joe Kovacs continued to whitewash the apparent racist links of birther hero Tim Adams, following the host’s lead in promoting the idea that Adams is “anything but a racist.”
As he has before, Kovacs does not address the core issue — Kovacs first made his claims on the radio show of a self-described “pro-white” host while at a convention of the white-supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens.
Kovacs goes on to say of Adams, “He’s not a birther, he’s a Hillary Clinton supporter.” But that means nothing, since the first birthers, like Philip Berg, were Hillary supporters as well.
Kovacs also insists that “everything he has said is so far true, ” but that’s not necessarily true. As we noted, Glen Takahashi, administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk’s office where Adams worked, has contradicted Adams’ claims about how much access he had to database records, as well as Adams’ claim that Obama’s lack of a birth certificate was an “open secret.”Kovacs has never reported Takahashi’s statement — presumably because they do conflict with the birther narrative that is WND editorial policy.
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2036528/kovacs-still-whitewashing-birther-heros-racist-ties/
That was a magnificent post & run-down JohnC. Thanks for coming here and spending the time to do so.
Yeah, I think it is fairly clear by now that no amount of reality, facts or logic will deter the hard-core birthers from their fantasies. Just as there are still people out there insisting that the Earth is flat…
JohnC! Welcome! How have you been?
You’;re absolutely correct. Birthers will always find some hair to split for as long as this president is in office
Not so bad. I see you’ve been busy here!
I was sorry to hear that our old friend Dave Weigel got shafted by the Washingtion Post. I hope he finds a new gig soon – preferably one that has Disqus.
Every now and then, I take a peek at the lastest spasms from the WND, ObamaCrimes and Post & Email crowd. It’s not very satisfying, though – they don’t welcome comments that challenge their incoherent groupthink (which of course is ironic given their frequently-expressed penchant for “freedom”).
One of the things I respect about Dr. C is that he allows people from all perspectives to post freely. The fact that he stands in stark contrast to the tightly-censored boards from the birther community says all you need to know about the strength of their respective arguments.
I’m surprised that the Post & Email hasn’t gotten a visit from the Secret Service. Those calls for a military coup are pretty frightening.
Your comment assumes that “birthers” is a fixed set of people, which it probably isn’t. Like any collection of people, the birthers probably started out as a collection of people of varying reasonableness, and as it became clearer that the position is untenable, the more reasonable ones gradually left, until now we’re left with those who are utterly impervious to facts or rational argument.
Plus we probably also get a few latecomers, who have just heard the birther side of things and haven’t yet heard the debunking.
You may have solved the mystery of the repeated inane questions. Some Discordian has modified an “Eliza” program to spit out birther points.
QFT.
Dr. Conspiracy for President in 2016!
Um, you are NBC, right Doc? Can you prove it? 😉
If the Secret Service had to spend the resources to go after every kook out there, our economy would be at full employment. Besides, any pressure from the Secret Service would only convince the Post & Email that “putative” President Obama was trying to shut down their quest for “truth” by sending out his personal “SS.” The only thing worse than a full-on birther is a birther with a victim complex.
As I see it, the term “birthers” describes anyone who subscribes to a particular mindset, not any particular set of individuals. If you believe (1) there are reasonable “questions” about whether President Obama was born in Hawaii despite the existence of his Hawaiian COLB; (2) there is reasonable doubt as to the legitimacy of President Obama’s COLB; (3) the Constitution requires that both parents of a “natural born Citizen” be U.S. citizens; or (4) the Constitution requires that a person cannot be a “natural born Citizen” if another state can claim him as a citizen under its laws, then I consider you a birther. Social and political groupings of such like-minded individuals constitute what I refer to as the “birther community.”
I have bee going to a FAUX News forum since before the 2008 election. I was going to leave that forum after Obama won the election, but when they started their birther BS, I decided to stay and do battle with them and have been there ever since. What I have noticed from the election to today with such hardcore conservatives like those who frequent this forum is that their support for birtherism has diminished significantly. It used to be a daily topic of discussion, but today, it is rarely brought up unless one of the more deluded individuals shows up and either bumps her old threads to the top or starts new ones. The large majority of them will not engage in the discussions about the issue, but there is a very small group that will discuss it if others begin a discussion although they will not begin the discussions themselves. There have even been increasing incidents of conservatives telling those who start these discussions that they are wasting their time discussing the issue. Birthers like to try to convince others that their numbers are increasing, but from my empirical experience, not only is that not the case, the number of those who believe that discussing it is worthwhile diminishing significantly.
There are two main factors contributing to this decline, at least on that forum. One is the injection of facts and logical argument into the discussion. The other reason is that birthers continually shoot themselves in the foot. Over the more than two years they have been making these claims, they have made promises that never came true. Every time one of these cases comes up, several of them will say that the case will definitely have President Obama out of office by such and such a time. Of course, their predictions never come true, and others eventually see that these people are just making false promises. Most recently, they predicted that Taitz’s Quo Warranto suit in DC would have President Obama out of office by Easter, which, as we all know, did not happen. They consistently damage their own credibility in the eyes of other conservatives because none of their predictions and promises ever come to fruition, and they have damaged it to the extent that they have alienated many conservatives who used to think that this was a viable issue.
Hey, I even have a long form!
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DocC_BC.jpg
Blast, the raised seal doesn’t show in the scan. I guess I’m not eligible after all.
I concur with that description to define them. Well said.
Yeah, but even worse is that you’ve modified it by wiping out the incriminating stuff. Not to mention the whole Alabama angle.
It is not an irrelevant fact that the DoH refuses to provide Yes/No answer about issuing the COLB to Obama. This illustrates the weakness in the official birthplace story.
Bush allowed Bob Woodward to be present at meetings of his administration. This was done to send a message to the public that the administration was being transparent in the process of discussing a military response to 9/11 attacks.
In Obama’s example only his left wing blogger friends had access to the paper copy of an alleged Hawaiian COLB. The DoH refuses to provide a simple confirmation of its authenticity.
If Obama had nothing to hide he would have presented the original long form birth certificate instead of a poor quality image of an alleged COLB.
It’s not relevant to anything any more.
The COLB is merely a written statement, issued by an employee of the DOH, certifying the existence of original records on file, and information derived from them.
Once the head of DOH issued a public statement and the DOH posted index data online, there is no need for anyone to rely on the 2007-issued COLB.
Obviously, Obama could get a new COLB issued any time he wants. The DOH is obligated by law to give a person a COLB of their own birth records, upon payment of the appropriate fee. So what would be the point of “confirming” whether or not an individual indeed received such a COLB, after the DOH has publicly confirmed the existence of the underlying records.
I believe the reason that the CA Bar Assoc and various courts are allowing Taitz and others to exhaustively have their say is that they want no one to be able to say they were silenced.
That all were given beyond a reasonable doubt and opportunity to make their case(s.)
That every possible angle was allowed to run its full course and came up empty.
Allowing them is deliberate (in my opinion.)
Ordinarily a lawyer would be shut down by a bar association in far less time if they repeatedly abused the rules.
I’ve stopped checking into her license status because of this.
One day she’ll be disbarred though. I am certain of this.
It is irrelevant because the state of Hawaii has verified the information on the COLB. If it was fake, do you think they would have done that? Silly me, of course you do because you think they’re in on the whole conspiracy, right? You’d rather focus on something so inane because you don’t want to believe that Obama was born in Hawaii and you would rather go tilting at windmills. With such “logic” on your side, is it any wonder that the courts have repeatedly dismissed all nirther cases?
Given that the director of the Department of Health has acknowledged that what Obama put on his web site is a copy of his birth certificate, and given the fact that the Department of Health is the only agency that issues birth certificates, I think the question you asked is pretty much answered for anyone not suffering from the “birther blind spot.” The only question left is whether the certificate Obama posted was really issued on June 6 of 2007 or some other date. Are you really going to demand an answer to that too?
Yeah, mom could have slipped over the border to Cuba.
It would have been much worse if I had been born in South Carolina which contains the towns of Finland, Norway and Sweden.
Knowing NC, the answer to your question is almost certainly yes.
Alas.
The primary purpose of birthism was to prove Obama is not eligible which may lead to his removal. That purpose has totally failed, Obama is still and will continue to be president. The birthers have struck out, they lost, it’s over. Except for total failure what else does the birther movement wish to accomplish. I know, I know, feed the paypal. It gives them great satisfaction to be part of a losing cause, just check out charo.
I think it’s because wingnuts like to feel persecuted. It gives them a feeling of being “just like Jesus.” Ever notice how the bizarre conspiracy theories have started to come up ever since Obama got elected? Not just the nirtherism, but the FEMA concentration camps, the BP “slush fund” and the “Obama wants to be dictator for life” meme floating around the wingnut blogs. And when the Republicans are in power, the wingnuts always have the old “liberal media” chestnut to trot out so they don’t ever lose that feeling of persecution.
The three types of birthers (born in Kenya, not NBC and Marxist spawn of Satan) are perfectly captured on this recent photograph:
http://www.chipchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/screenshot_072.jpg
But whose “testimony” creates birthers?
EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!
I assume the shy lime green one in the background is a 9/11 Truther who’s woken up after a long night on the WD40 to wonder who the hell are these lunatics I’ve hooked up with…..8-)
Maybe he spent the night on a Bender?
hmmmmmmmmmmm Robot Porn hmmmmmmmmmmm
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/political-pictures-exists-porn.jpg
http://robotporn.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/robot_porn.gif
http://robotporn.de/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/robbyshoe.jpg
(Safe for work……8-)
The original purpose was to cast doubt in voters minds, so they wouldn’t vote for him. I strongly believe that the idea shifted from Ron Paul’s presidency, as he was engaging Paul was attempting to remove John McCain from the ballots using the same methods.
Now they seem to be trying to cast enough doubt that it pushes Congress to act. They just don’t realize that because of the absurdity of the idea that it has been rejected. Rejected by the voters. Rejected by the states. Rejected by the Congress. However, has charo has proved birthers can be an incongruous bunch.
Loved the schematic! It was pretty graphic!
The whole thing started with a Hilary supporter here in Norristown – Phil Berg. Berg got a lot of ink in the Philadelphia Inquirer from his antics.
Obama was doing better in the primaries, and Berg was determined to derail him, and now he won’t let go. What Berg, a PUMA, did was create a latter day Frankenstein.
If you want to think like that, we could make up a bunch of jargon for anything. You make this site look stupid by trying to refute a birther with even more messed up logic.
It’s called irony. Look into it.
And if that happens, that’s how the system is supposed to work.
If you don’t like a politician, you vote that person out. You don’t file endless frivolous lawsuits, make up fake sovereign/citizen “grand juries,” and encourage civil war and treason.
Yep, if Obama gets voted out of office because the voters don’t like his policy, then the system would be working as its supposed to. No issue with that.
But you are like a bizarro birther- you are saying where he was born doesn’t matter, but actually according to the Constitution it does, and of course Obama was born here.
FAIL!
For the irony-impaired: I took The_Proof’s original post verbatim and just edited it slightly to replace the Obama thing with the Bush alien thing. Same words.
Yeah, ironic, but does nothing but encourage the birthers, and that original guy did have a point that some states may prohibit him from being on their ballot. A better way to disperse the birthers is to provide them with solid, concrete facts rather than ironic statements or bashing them with stereotypical words. Even though some birthers will still continue to cling to their beliefs, the hard facts have caused their numbers to greatly drop since 2008.
The original guy being The_Proof_he_misses? Or was it Fica? Which is one of your sock puppets as well as mandy? I find it funny you want to talk about how others make the site stupid while you’re pretending to be multiple people with varying opinions.
Logic. There is absolutely no logic with birthers arguments. It is hard to determine what the actual point of your comment was, but please enlighten us.
The solid concrete facts have been proved over a year ago. So, it is hard to determine what you are actually talking about. Only you know the genuineness of your comment.
Birther believe what they want to because it is better for them to deal with than the facts. A person who abandons bitherism is due to their realization of how irrational the birther beliefs system is.
Usually, smart people realize their mistake and quietly walk away. The push of this thing seem to be from intelligent people as can be seen by their writing. However, they seem to have pulled in or created the “latter day Frankenstein”s.
bird don’t even bother. Yawdle is a sock puppet of the_proof and several others
I hear stories of Japanese soldiers continuing to fight World War II years after it ended (they didn’t get the memo). That’s what the birther remnant does. The overwhelming quantity of facts are available to anyone who wants to look for them. There is no intellectually honest disagreement as to where those facts lead: Barack Obama is the constitutionally elected president of the United States. There are over 800 articles on this blog covering those facts. Start with the December 2008 articles.
What the birthers want is an absence of solid facts. Solid facts prove that their entire thesis is a house of cards. With this in mind I don’t know why they continue to bring court cases when there just might be a chance that they will get what they are asking for. Maybe that is why their court filings have been so poorly constructed so as to guarantee failure.
WTF are you talking about, exactly? Sock puppet? Are you really accusing me of being all the other birthers on here? WTF are you smoking? I’m surprised you didn’t say I was nc1 or any of the other people. It seems to me that if anybody says anything that doesn’t support Obama 100%, you and your “sock puppets” (if that’s what you call them) rage a war against them.
Perhaps they just like to waste their money in order to get a spot in the national spotlight? To them, bad media coverage must be better than no media coverage.
Doc can you enlighten yawdle to what I was speaking of
Hmmm, considering that my nephew lives about 2 miles away, it seems that you can’t track the address to a specific house or computer, since I know all these posts you allege have not been made on this computer. I’m not even sure why you guys run this blog, since all you do is continue to loathe around in hate. If anything, the birthers have the joke on you, because two years after this matter had been settled, you are still bitching amongst yourselves about what the birthers are doing and actively attacking every thing they do in the public life. Seriously, you guys need to get a life. I can’t find many people that keep this close of tabs on new developements this long after the issue is gone. And for the record, I’m not an adult, I’m 13 (yes, my nephew his older than me. He’s 23.) You don’t have to be an adult to care about politics, and I can see this site is useless, as the people on it keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again for 2 years. Well, have fun, maybe I’ll check back on this site in 2012 and see how many of you successfully spent another 2 years of your life on this dead subject.
Dr. C runs his own blog.
Birthers spreading vicious lies is vile and reprehensible. Silence could be perceived as acceptance. There are politicians in positions of power who are birther. That is also dangerous.
Get a life? Don’t be a hypocrite as you’re frequently posting here. Flashing puerile defensiveness is not unusual in a pre-pubuscent child.
Frequently posting here? Well, over a very short period of time, you could say so, but I posted here the longest, and that was only 5 days ago, not years like he pointed out. But whatever, say what you will if it makes you happy.
Besides your other sock puppet Yawdle first said he didn’t know the other usernames now that statement has been amended. Keep trying
Really? Where did he say he didn’t know the other usernames?
Probably right here “proof” when he got all defensive and asked what I was talking about when you damned well what I was talking about.
You’re not making sense. Your defensiveness gives you away. And I don’t need your permission.
Hmmm, looks to my that he never said he didn’t know any of the other people, and you just pulled that generalization out of thin air. Too bad.
Yeah his defensiveness claiming that I was wrong. Not a generalization. Just man up and admit it
Yeah I do. Apparently you aren’t very good at this lying thing.
Well, you are wrong. He is not all of the people you are talking about and probably didn’t like being told he was something that he wasn’t.
You must either be convinced that everything came from one computer, which is not the case at all, or you are intent on continuing your bull since you refuse to ever be proven wrong.
Right… You’re not very convincing Yawdle, fica, mandy, etc
The burden of proof is you being called out by the owner of this site. You know the site remembers your username when you post here. When you posted under yawdle you screwed up and forgot to capitalize your username “The_Proof_He_Misses” try to keep up with your own self delusion
It doesn’t matter that if I capitalize or not. When I came on today, there was nothing in the name spot, so I just typed what I had used earlier so you’d know who was talking. And no, they are not all from the same computer. Saying that over and over again won’t make it true.
Oh, sorry, I had a spelling error in my last post (not that I really care…)
How could you possibly know that? [smirk]
Sure. They are the same computer
I don’t know that, hence I said “possibly”. Notice the diction.
No you said first that he is not all the same people. Now you must have some previous knowledge of this
Yes, my “previous knowledge” comes from reading the all the other posts that were made since I last checked. Anybody that has read all of them knows what you are talking about.
“Well, you are wrong. He is not all of the people you are talking about. . .” That’s your statement.
I’ll try again for the reading comprehension impaired. Ho could you possibly know he’s not all of the people? And then you theorized he “probably didn’t like being told he was something that he wasn’t.”
You’re slipping even farther, Pinocchio. You might want to stop making a fool of yourself when you’re this far behind.
No you stated it as a fact. You then made claims about the small area you all live in. You have previous knowledge
I know that you are wrong because Mandy’s post definitely did not come from this computer.
Even Sven doesn’t look this pathetic when called out
But you seem to know who mandy is
I’m sorry you’re right Mandy isn’t you, its the blowup doll that posts from your computer
Yes, that is a copy and paste job, if anybody was wondering.
Oh, no, irony is far beyond my vocabulary…oh darn!
You neither write nor think like a 13 year old. Nice try.
Irony, not sarcasm.
Considering the extreme defensiveness and bizarre denials, it must be important for the poster to continue this silly, transparent, multiple identity charade.