I use the cockroach metaphor for Birthers because both live and multiply in the dark, both are unpleasant, and both are stubborn and hard to eradicate.
Much of what makes up birtherism is born of the doubts raised and claims made about things that could not be verified–”or at least that used to be the case. Now there’s a lot more light, and the dark spaces where Birthers used to breed are shrinking.
Up until now, Birthers used the darkness surrounding the long form birth certificate to claim that it must have something embarrassing on it; other such as Tim Adams and Donald Trump even went so far as to make the impossible claim that the long form doesn’t even exist. The lack of any real information about what Obama spent on legal fees allowed the myth that Obama spent $2 million trying to hide his birth to breed. Birthers had said since the very beginning that some unnamed person had called every hospital in Hawaii and none would confirm Obama’s birth, relying on the lack of information (assuming the story was ever true) as proof that the birth didn’t happen in any hospital. Ignoring totally what Dr. Chiyome Fukino, former director of the Hawaii Department of Health, said, Birthers read volumes into every word she didn’t say to prove that the document didn’t exist, it wasn’t a long form, it was amended, it was a late filing, it was a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, is was a foreign birth registered in Hawaii. They claimed Obama’s sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng (born in Indonesia) had a Hawaiian birth certificate–”a tale which cannot be true legally–”with no “proof” beyond the fact that no one can actually look at the records (the birth index) without traveling to Hawaii.
It has been a remarkable week in in the Obama conspiracy business. CNN did a hard news documentary on Obama’s birth in Hawaii including an on camera interview with the Republican health department official who personally viewed Obama’s birth certificate, and confirming that he was born in Hawaii. CNN found someone who gave birth the day after Ann Dunham, and remembers Obama in the nursery. Peter Boyles, a Denver radio talk show host called Kapi’olani hospital and they confirmed that that was the hospital where Obama was born, and finally the coup de grâce: Barack Obama released his long-form birth certificate along with a stern lecture that both he and the country have more important things to deal with right now.
All of the “didn’t really say”, “hidden”, “can’t see”, “something to hide” cracks in the wall where Birthers live aren’t there anymore. One source said: “cockroaches escape immediately if their hiding places are illuminated.” Let’s watch and see what the Birthers do.
what will they do? the same as before, denounce it as a fake and carry on with their `nudge, wink, jerome will have him out soon!´ kind of thing.
where´s lucas? i´d love to hear his take on this.
Birthers will do what they have been doing up until now….make fanciful claims of forgery, claim a conspiracy, and throw junk law claims of parent citizen requirements.
Also…where’s Orly? Her site has been unusually silent today….I figured she’s be on the “it’s a forgery” bandwagon within seconds, and then claiming it doesn’t matter anyway.
Jenk Yugar just called out Joseph Farah on the $15,000 he promised to the Hospital printed on Obama’s Long-form birth certificate.
Farah doesn’t want to pay it.
“WHERE’S THE 15 GRAND?”
“Jenk Yugar just called out Joseph Farah”
wow, Farah blew it big time, that was great! He is now pushing “Obama’s father was Keyan” garbage, what a dolt.
.
“Also…where’s Orly”
She is scheduled to be on O’donnell’s MSNBC show at 5:00PM Pacidic Time
Butterde is saying that because the long form doesn’t say amended on it, it has to be a fake.
Why do I have the feeling, based on a few of the other “temper flare ups” we’ve seen from him, that he’s probably completely snapped and on a multi-day rage bender, frothing at the mouth and smearing his own feeces all over the walls, while muttering weird sexual-innuendo fantasy laced gibberish…
*facepalm* She’s one of the people permanently beyond help…and definitely way beyond sanity… only stiff meds and rubber rooms can help her now.
when he sobers up again unable to remember what happened, he´ll claim that obama´s secret police lifted him and interrogated him with drugs.
again. 😀
…oh…and ghosts! He’ll definitely find someway to throw in something about poltergeists or ghosts that physically moved him…after all, he can’t be selling forged birther stuff anymore, so he’s got to go back to selling “newly discovered” haunted houses…
I don’t have cable. Could you provide a link when it’s on the web?
Which is EXACTLY what they’re doing…
http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=611855
Here’s the tale of one cockroach. She questions why Cooper said that only one person, who was not the president, has requested a long form in the past year. She believes that a fraud was perpetrated on this basis. I showed her the attorney’s letter from the 22nd and that the 23rd and 24th were a Saturday and a Sunday, which means government offices were closed those two days. The earliest Hawaii could have received the request would have been the 25th. She says the CNN piece aired on the 25th and that the state of Hawaii would have called CNN to let them know that their assertion that only one person had requested a long form in the past year was wrong, that they would have called CNN to alert them of this fact. I tried to tell her that there is no reason why the state would or should call CNN to let them know this, that their only obligation is to the person requesting the certificate, but you know how birthers are.
Special – link to ►►Reality Check Radio show tonight!
9:00 – 11:00 p.m. Eastern, don’t miss this one!
The cockroaches are already “Polariking” today’s long-form birth certificate.
It’s a forgery.
He still lost his citizenship in Indonesia.
Finally, we have PROOF that he’s ineligible: His father was a British citizen, just like Obama said all along.
Why doesn’t Obama just release the long-form birth certificate that would put the whole issue to rest?
“I don’t have cable. Could you provide a link when it’s on the web?”
will do, but get earmuffs that eleiminate screeching!
Now everbody is posting on Lucas Smith’s video “The Kenyan BC” . They are calling him all kinds of names lol!
Well we knew this would happen. Birtherism has never been about facts or actual issues. It’s about an inability to accept the current president as legitimate. But honestly, how stupid is it to be carrying on about analyzing an Internet image of an actual document whose chain of authenticity is documented by the state of Hawaii?
There is a post at freerepublic that says this long form does not show all the information. And that is proven by the fact it says “abstract” on Dr. Onaka’s stamp. And that this is not the original or even a photocopy of the original. LOL
Now they want more investigations of the certificate including the names of the people who are on there. They are just on a witch hunt and will use anything they are given to further that witch hunt. Pathetic.
Nothing they are ever given will be an end in itself; it will always be a means to the end that they want to be
I’ve been seeing a new term for the birthers now that the long form has been released – afterbirthers.
I prefer morons, but no point in insulting a moron.
I could use the help of anyone who cares to discuss documents and alleged forgeries to this:
posting by Angelo Campanella:
“I immediately scrutinized the release, only to find that it was a “more convincing” form of the same old COLB. But it still is dated 8 Aug, 4 days after the alleged birth time. It’s perhaps more convincing since it has two signatures. But I find four things fishy about this COLB version:
1- the check mark for the “attendant” MD slot was over-marked,
2- there are lightly penciled-in numbers 1, 2(twice), 9(twice), x – x as if someone had to be prompted to supply values for them. 3-
The right edge of the form is bent back out of sight as if to conceal the information specified and written. That bend-back is obviously longer – and contains attached real information – than the apparent slot remaining open; to the left is blank green bar blank paper; strange. A good copy of ANYTHING is both clear AND complete. There is no way the record could have been stored that way for almost 50 years and not be compressed to a fold. Yet the tiny green watermark bars align almost perfectly. What’s being hidden? Finally 4- What’s last Monday’s date (April 25, 2011) doing stamped on a document that is supposed to be 50 years old????? As Corsi says; “Let the Games Begin!”.
Angelo Campanella, Ph.D.(physics).
Over at this site:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-blinked-now-game-begins/
\
I replied:
Re: “What’s last Monday’s date (April 25, 2011) doing stamped on a document that is supposed to be 50 years old????? ”
That is so it could be a CERTIFIED DOCUMENT. A mere image of the original, not printed on security paper and without the seal, would not be certified. So, I believe that you are right, it is not a simple image of the original. It is a printed image of the digitized image of the original printed on security paper with the seal and signature added.
Are you saying that you would like to see an image of the paper copy? Why? Just for the folds?
Are you saying that you think that the facts on the paper copy would be different from those on the digital copy?
(Obviously, if the authorities wanted to forge a copy of the paper document without the seal and the security paper they could do just as easily as the digital image.)
Re the Aug 8 date. A guy gets born in the evening on a Friday too late for an entry on that day. Then there are Saturday and Sunday, and say that the clerks were busy on Monday and so some of their work slipped over into Tuesday.
It amuses me that a number of birther sites – for example, Dr. Kate’s – are simultaneously saying it is a forgery, AND that it proves that he isn’t a natural born citizen via their (still wrong) two parent theory.
Why claim it’s forged? It cannot both be a forgery and prove their (false) point. If it’s a forgery it proves nothing to anyone. They can pick one or the other yet choose both.
After all, if I’m in court and claim something, and you agree to stipulate it, I don’t then go say that you have to prove it. It just goes to further show their ODS – they simply cannot believe that anything this man does, that any word this man says, can be agreed with or they think it’s a surrender.
It makes it clear they simply will never be satisfied – and Republican candidates that privately went “whew” hoping this would settle the issue now are going to be continually asked by the same people to sign on to even MORE insane conspiracies. It was one thing to dog-whistle and say he should release it. Now he has, but they’ve claimed solidarity for so long that some of them are going to be forced to continue down the rabbit hole.
But we expected this – that they’d immediately claim it a forgery and continue as if nothing happened, which is exactly what’s happened. Like any major conspiracy theory followers, they claim that any evidence at all that debunks their conspiracy is actually evidence FOR an even larger conspiracy.
The penciled information are there for people who enter codes into a electronic system for storage or tabulation. It is standard for vital records information to be coded, and on paper forms where the codes are not already there next to check boxes, it can be a help for someone to deal with the coding before data entry.
Any information to the left of the crease would be for someone else’s certificate. Now the original certificate probably had additional medical information on it, but this is not released, and you don’t see it on anybody’s birth certificate.
The way the document was made was to photocopy the book copy onto security paper, then date stamp it and add Onaka’s signature statement and stamp. I don’t know whether it is sealed or not–but that hardly matters.
I would suggest a somewhat different process. The page of the original bound book was scanned (not photographed or there would not be the black in the upper left) to create an electronic image. This image was then rotated to square it if the original scan was skewed and appropriately trimmed. It was then printed on the security paper, stamped and signed.
Orly’s appearance on O’Donnell’s show was a jioke, he vfinally kicked her off.
there will be video at the link:
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/
Look at other BC’s they have the same little check marks. For example here is Danae’s
http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/danaecolb-rotatedcropped.jpg
se the double xx in box 4a, the 2 in box 3.
Here is the next birther meme, that has been floating around for awhile. It is a variant of the President is using his sister’s Hawaiian birth certificate.
A girl was born in Hawaii on August 4,1961 and died on August 5th, 1961. We now have a name Virginia Sunahara.
And of course…the Nordykes have the same handwritten notations.
http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/nordyke-61.gif
Are you saying that the penciled in notations that can be seen on the Nordyke and Obama original certificates were put there AFTER they were filled in with a typewriter? That’s interesting. I had always assumed they were handwritten in at some point prior….and then later made cleaner looking with the typewriter so that this portion could be used for making “copies”.
Did anyone happen to catch Orly’s appearance on Fox Business tonight. I am wondering if they allowed her to spout off the Social Security non-sense that she attempted to get off tonight on Lawrence O’Donnel?
DEATHERS can’t handle the truth
how many fake BC’s has BO now posted on internet? I am up to FIVE and still counting, which one is real one ?
BTW HI Hospital still refuses to confirm BO was born there……..
and here’s another one of your conspiracies bebunked……
“OBAMA’S HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER CLAIMS DIFFERENT DOCTOR”
“… according to supporter Barbara Nelson, Obama’s English teacher at Punahou High School and perhaps “the only person left who specifically remembers his birth.”
Nelson stated for The Buffalo News on Tuesday, February 17, 2009, “I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone,” said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here’s the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: “So, tell me something interesting that happened this week,’” she recalls.
His response: “Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that’s something to write home about.”
The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.”
None
lmao. They cried for years that they wanted to see this one, and now they say there are too many of them. sheesh
There was nothing the birthers learned today that they didn’t know yesterday about Obama’s eligibility to be President. They were sick bigots yesterday, they are sick bigots today, and this disgusting episode will rage on tomorrow in the minds of sick bigots.
Epic.
Birthers are lower than cockroaches – they’re fascists
http://classic-web.archive. org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm
[I am breaking this link buy adding a space because Norton is telling me it’s a malicious site. Doc.]
Can I hereby nominate “thefarleftview” as one of the stupidest people to breathe in 2011?
Poor Orly-
The round of TV interviews today will be her last. The hosts just wanted one last chance to make her look as stupid as can be. After today, they will no longer report on birtherism so there is no reason that Orly will ever be on TV again.
She doesn’t yet realize this is her last gasp before the long road to forgotten.
“Can I hereby nominate “thefarleftview” as one of the stupidest people to breathe in
2011?”
.
I second that!
.
by the way Orly teird to present her upcoming hearing as OMGshe will win moment, she evidently comes the same school as theFarLeftView
I predict a landslide win for it
“Widow Overwhelmed by News that her Husband Delivered Baby Obama:”
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/27/widow-overwhelmed-by-news-that-husband-delivered-baby-obama/
And for thefarrightview, sometimes there is more than one physician in a delivery room but only one of the doctors signs as attending physician. Nothing to see there, move along.
http://www.sabinabecker.com/images/birther-nut-job.jpg
Right. The form was completed by the Hospital and signed by the doctor, then sent to the Health Department. They are the one’s tasked with assigning codes to the information. Ann Dunham, who we know now was the informant (no surprise) said that her husband’s race was African. I assure you that Dunham didn’t reply “9” and somebody typed in “African.”
What we see here for some of the responses are one-digit codes, and in systems like that code “9” is often used for “Other.” So while Dunham said her husband (or he said through her) was “African” it was counted for statistical purposes as “Other.” Typically the race codes went 1 – White, 2 – Black…, and other number for other common choices.
Same thing for “Kind of business or industry”, “University” wasn’t one of the regular codes, so it was coded as “9” – Other. Other codes I can guess include 1 – Yes, 2 – No; 1 – Male, 2 – Female. 0 – Missing or None. I also am guessing 1 – PM, 2 – AM.
You can do that but since he’ll be competing for the title with every other birther it’s going to be a close contest.
Oops. Is Orly Taitz nominated?
I’m going to make photocopies of Obama’s BC and place one in each copy of Corsi’s book at the Barnes and Noble.
You can do that but since he’ll be competing for the title with every other birther it’s going to be a close contest.
Sean:
“I’m going to make photocopies of Obama’s BC and place one in each copy of Corsi’s book at the Barnes and Noble.”
That’s a great idea. Anything that helps discourage sales of that POS.
“Can I hereby nominate “thefarleftview” as one of the stupidest people to breathe in 2011″
No, keep that for Orly
Nominate theFarLeftView as the cockroach of the year!
.
on second thought I don’t want to insult cockroches.
I suspect it is not sealed, just as the other recently-issued long forms do not appear to be sealed, in keeping with Hawaii’s stated policy of not issuing certified long-form certificates. In other words, unlike the sealed short-forms, they are not “official” and cannot be used as “prima facie evidence” of birth.
Speaking of the 2010-issued long form certificate, WND and “Danae” have unwittingly provided us with a response to the birfers who are already braying about the difference in the ‘ear digits between Obama’s long form and his short form. (“Why does the long form say ’61’ and the short form say ‘1961’? Huh, huh?”)
“Danae’s” long-form (unsealed) Hawaii certificate of live birth, which she received in 2010, shows three file numbers, then two year numbers – 69 – and then six more numbers.
http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/041111b-c1.jpg
http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/041111b-c3.jpg
Then she posted a picture of the (sealed) certification of live birth she received at the same time, which shows three file numbers, then FOUR year numbers – 1969 – and then six more numbers.
http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/041111b-c4.jpg
Which the same as with Obama’s two certificates. Except that the last number sequence is five numbers instead of six – no zeros preceding.
NICE! lmao 😀
email fron my daughter:
Dad
I just saw Obama’s birth certificate, he was born at the same hospital as me! I couda been president!
That is an excellent idea.
Or a nice color copy of this?
http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2010/11/Obama_family_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg
PS to Dr. C.:
With respect to Hawaii’s policy of not issuing certified long-form certificates, I see that the 2001 letter from the then-Director of Health posted at WND does pretty much spell it out:
This is to inform you that the Department of Health will henceforth issue and provide only computer-generated abstracts of birth and marriage records and cease to produce photocopies of actual records to satisfy requests for certified copies of certificates by individuals, private organizations, and government agencies.
http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/042611dohmemo.jpg
The GOP is like the “Chicken Littles” always saying that the “Sky is Falling”, like the same ones that were the “Chicken Hawks” (“W” Wars), big talk no courage.
The United States, favors creativity wherever it can be found. We’re apostles of prosperity and defenders of the free exchange of ideas and when more people in more countries are free to rise, to invent, to communicate, to dissent, it’s not the doom of United States leadership, its the triumph of the American way.
Generations have worked hard and sacrificed much for the country to reach this point (individuals and our unions!), and with further hard work and sacrifice (along with our relentless self-doubt) the United States will rise again, we do not tire and we are coming back, no matter what Fox news and their GOP “Chicken Littles” lackies keep saying about our nation. Never Bet Against the United States!
Our current President travelled under a USA passport long before he was elected President, but I guess the quacky BIRTHERS, must believe that the USCIS – United States Passport was in on the lie, please, grow up, you are wrong! Remember when some contractors were busted during the “George W. Bush” administration for looking at our current President passport file (how quick you forget).
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/03/20/obamas_passport_files_hacked/
The Birthers just HATE and can’t debate!
Have any of the quacky BIRTHERS presented any credible proof that will standup in court? Answer: No
Have any of the quacky BIRTHERS won any Court Cases? Answer: No
They are just mainly backward, uneducated, white people who HATE our half African American President.
The majority of the voting public ask “where the proof”, show some proof BIRTHERS or the voting majority will continue to see you as dumb, stupid or racist, maybe all three. Can you blame them?
Still, I really hope one of these retreads and blowhards runs for president, not because they have a chance of winning but because I like to see the train wreck that they will cause.
Faux News Candidates:
former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin ”The I graduated Early”,
former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga. “The I Love The Interns”,
former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee “The Huckster Reverend”,
former Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. “The I Love the Gays”,
former UN Ambassador John Bolton “The I Love The War ”
I Finance Myself:
real estate celebrity developer, Donald Trump, “I took my Casino into Bankruptcy, just imagine where I can Take the US”
former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney “The Flip-Flopping Fudger”,
former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush “The I Am Not My “Dumb Ass” Brother”,
Employed Long Shots:
Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn. “The History, I Don’t Need No Stink’n History”,
Well, thanks for that.
What is your thinking on the handwritten notations in the ‘Birthplace of Mother’ and ‘Birthplace of Father’ fields? I guess what had gotten my thinking off track was that on the Susan Nordyke ‘Birthplace of Father’ field, it looks like ‘LA’ is handwritten in. Maybe I’m just reading it wrong. Any idea what these notations would have been?
Okay, I want to know when the birthers think the forgery occurred.
The Director of the Department of Health watched the copies being made and attests that they are true copies of the files they have.
So, she hands Obama’s lawyer a letter saying she swears the documents she’s giving are actual copies of the files they have and two copies of the birth certificate which the registrar Alvin Onaka has also sworn (on the documents themselves) are accurate copies. The lawyer flies back with those documents and they are later given to the press. The copies are made on Monday and released on Wednesday.
When you talk about layers you are saying that Obama gave out something different than what the Director gave him. Right? So, why hasn’t she or Onaka noticed the switcheroo? You seem to think it’s something obvious that he’s hiding, right, like “amended,” or the mysterious Muslim box, or something. So, how did she miss it? Why hasn’t Onaka come forward and said, “that’s not what I signed JUST THREE DAYS AGO. And I’d remember because we don’t do long forms anymore and the frickin’ director stood behind me watching me make the copies!”
Or, do you imagine that Obama snuck into the Registry of Vital Statistics and swapped out his form for someone else’s? Mission Impossible style?
So, birthers, which is it? Is everyone in on it, or did Obama hire Tom Cruise and float into the vault on a special flying harness?
That is how I assumed it was done as soon as I saw it.
I also assume there is no raised seal, so it is not a legal certificate, only an officially attested photocopy.
You said it Doc, birthers are cockroaches, they will never stop. Look at this video. This cockroach found “layers” on Obama’s birth certificate.
http://youtu.be/EgVIei87oFo
Greg:
I think their assertion is that the Hawaii Department of Health and indeed entire state government is “in on it” and thus agreed to sign off on as legitimate the “forgery” produced by Obama.
This is standard for any real conspiracy theorist – if faced with almost impossible to refute evidence, simply increase the size and scope of the conspiracy to include such people as would be required to make that evidence part of the conspiracy as a whole.
I have even seen some birthers today claim that the Nordyke twins and their oft-cited-by-birthers certificate were part of the “plan” all along because of the fact that their certificate debunks the new “Kapoliani hospital wasn’t called that in 1961!” meme. If they can’t refute, expand the conspiracy to include it, then ignore.
to theFarLeftView from Sean
“There it is! Everything’s going to be OK. That bad black man won’t get you. Not when I’m around”
.
CLASSIC
You win the Dr C Humor Award, 2 one way tickets to Birferstan with 9 free berf bags (Berferstan is largest supplier of berf bags to the airlines)
I challenge TFLV’s eligibility – can it pass a Turing test? I believe it is a birther-bot. As a citizen of this community I feel I have the standing to demand that it be checked before it is allowed on the ballot.
Joseph Farah owes $15,000 to Kapi’olani Medical Center
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/27/farah_birth_hospital/index.html
Is Farah going to pay up? What exactly is the Arab Farah’s connection to Al Qaeda operatives in Lebanon? Is he an Al Qaeda agent of propaganda, on a mission to sow doubt on our leaders?
As I always said: It’s all about race.
(I mean, the sincerely deluded ones; excluding the crooks like Mario who prey on them, who probably couldn’t care less.)
On the one hand, I’m disappointed by the fact that Trump got Obama to be his bitch on this issue.
On the other hand, the more this goes on, the more their fetid racism becomes exposed for all people to see, and that’s a good thing. The crazier they look and sound, the better it is.
No, Farah is refusing, claiming it’s a forgery. Farah is a Phalangist. What do you expect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
Trump is now saying he wants to see Obama’s school records – did he get into Harvard because he’s black.
As Katie Couric said, no other president in history had to prove he’s an American citizen.
I’m generously willing to concede some genuine non-racist credit to the initial doubts, what with Obama’s dad being a non-citizen, etc., etc.
Once the proper HI BC was released & authenticated by the issuing State, THEN it becomes racist to deny its validity based on no other rational reason that you don’t like the mug of the recipient.
> Trump is now saying he wants to see Obama’s school records – did he get into Harvard because he’s black.
Well, good then! This will put Trump out of the race for the vast majority of the people. I don’t think even conservative whites will like the allusion that blacks can only become successful through Affirmative Action.
Interesting, though, that Trump hasn’t yet gone de Vattelist. (And no, I don’t think it’s because of his children – he’d probably assume the issue would be long forgotten once one of them intends to run for President, if ever.)
This will probably mean the birfers will throw him under the bus next. After all, their “great white hope” has accomplished nothing but solidly demolish the birfer case. That’s why they’re going 1984 now and say “it’s never been about the BC”. They realize they’ve bet on the wrong horse (not Trump, the BC).
Trump assumes that Obama couldn’t have gotten where he is on his own merits.
Trump assumes that Obama got some sort of special treatment in his academic career.
Obama’s just not the right kind of American for Trump. For some reason, he just seems unqualified. It’s nothing specific, just a vague feeling the man (who happens to be black) doesn’t fit in, doesn’t belong, isn’t right.
We have a name for that.
It’s called racism.
I think it is absolutely time to call out birthers as racists unless they are willing to accept President Obama’s legitimacy. These people need to be shouted down and outed as ignorant bigots until they finally understand what a shameful thing it is to be a birther. The president should never utter another word about or to the birthers and patriotic Americans should vilify the seditious scum so he can ignore them. (I’m trying my best… ;-)).
> If they can’t refute, expand the conspiracy to include it, then ignore.
That’s why one says that a conspiracy theory is “not falsifiable by design” and thus not scientific. Which is why I often call it “conspiracy religion”. Religion explains everything inconsistent with “it’s God’s plan and we can’t understand it” or “God wants to test us” (by burying the dinosaurs which are inconsistent with biblical timelines).
A conspiracy theory never rejects any of its parts. It may however creatively modify it.
(E.g. the theory of the “New World Order” originally assumed one fixed group of conspirators; some proponents of that conspiracy religion have now moved to the modified theory “there are two groups within the NWO who wage a secret war on each other” because they couldn’t explain many political developments otherwise. Or chemtrails which have moved from “reducing the population” to “waging war against the other NWO group” for some wingnuts.)
I totally agree.
I believe that you’ve had presidents with a foreign born parent before. McCain was not born on American soil. And the GOP has flirted with finding a way to make Schwarzenegger eligible.
The fact that we’ve been discussing Obama’s eligibility for three years when we all knew that his mother was American and he was born in America is due (in the larger societal context) to the fact that he’s black.
Schieffer: Racism underlying Trump’s assertions
Donald Trump has moved on from the “birther” conspiracy to allege President Barack Obama didn’t get good enough grades to warrant entry to Harvard Law School
“That’s just code for saying he got into law school because he’s black. This is an ugly strain of racism that’s running through this whole thing.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20058072-503544.html
Wanted: Single American females willing to sire child and give birth in America for future presidential bid. 300K yearly salary please call 1-800-Osama bin ladin. Not what the framers had in mind- natural born citizen=citizen PARENTS+born in America think about it.
The framers are on record that you are an IDIOT.
Why do you feel like the voters would vote for such a candidate just because they’re eligible?
Te conflating of “It’s possible a terrorist’s son could be eligible!” with “He’s president!” stuns me.
Here’s something you may not realize – most felons are eligible for the Presidency. There’s a lot of eligible people that would never get the votes. The fact that you don’t trust the voters to vote for the candidate of their choice tells more about you than them.
An other vile, loathsome and utterly incorrect post. Boy, they’re outdoing themselves since yesterday. It’s like the tiny fuse box blew in their reptilian brains.
> There’s a lot of eligible people that would never get the votes.
Charles Manson would have been eligible (before committing all the murders, of course), or any other mass murderer.
So would Timothy McVeigh or any other domestic terrorist.
Birfers assume that “not being the son of a foreigner” somehow is a magic protection from being a bad, anti-American president.
Well, in that case Bin Ladin would simply have to father a child which later naturalizes, then fathers a child with another US woman. So his grandchild would be eligible even by birfer standards. What say you?
I don’t know where else to put this, but I thought I’d mention that lost in the shuffle with the disclosure of the long form birth certificate, some other info has come to light. Via a FOIA request for Obama Sr.’s immigration file, we have confirmation of date of marriage to Ann Dunham ( February 2, 1961) — plus we also now know the full date of birth of Obama Sr. (June 18, 1934). This latter piece of data further negates the already thoroughly debunked Lucas Smith “Coast Provincial” fake Kenyan birth certificate, which lists the father as having been born in 1936.
I think I posted a link to that yesterday, no?
(That was prior to the kerfuffle.)
(Now I can’t find it! Drats.)
Good summary from the MY TIMES:
If there was ever any doubt about Mr. Obama’s citizenship, which there was not, the issue was settled years ago when Hawaii released his birth certificate. The fuller document that Mr. Obama had to request contains some extra information, including his parents’ signatures and the name of the hospital where he was born, but it was unnecessary to show his legitimacy.
So it will not quiet the most avid attackers. Several quickly questioned its authenticity. That’s because the birther question was never really about citizenship; it was simply a proxy for those who never accepted the president’s legitimacy, for a toxic mix of reasons involving ideology, deep political anger and, most insidious of all, race. It was originally promulgated by fringe figures of the radical right, but mainstream Republican leaders allowed it to simmer to satisfy those who are inflamed by Mr. Obama’s presence in the White House.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/opinion/28thu1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
Adorable!
I agree. That line of attack is clear racism. Really turns my stomach…
Actually, we’ve got an interesting little wrinkle here – we’ve got two different birth dates reflected in immigration file. The birthdate shows up all over the place, including on official docs like alien registration card – and in some spots is reflected as 6/18/34 — but in a few places (different pages) it is shown as 6/18/36.
A 1936 birthdate would have made him age 25 at the time of President Obama’s birth, as reflected on the birth certificate; whereas a 1934 birthdate would have made him age 27.
I haven’t studied it all that closely, but it looks like when Obama Sr. applied to come to the US in 1959, he was born in 1934… but by the time he was ready to leave in 1964, he had lost a couple of years and his birth date was 1936.
Of course this provides great fodder for birther speculation, as it suggests that Mr. Obama Sr. possessed a time machine. (As the immigration file also makes clear, he certainly didn’t have any money .).
Anyone here see The Onion’s “News in Photos” piece recently? It’s a picture of Donald Trump with the caption “DONALD TRUMP NOT ABLE TO PRODUCE DOCUMENT PROVING HE’S NOT A FETID PILE OF SHIT”.
Sometimes their best humor is completely unsubtle.
Previously in my comments on this blog, I have compared Birthers to 419 (Nigerian advance fee) scammers, who will always tell you that the end is just one payment away. I think that with the release of the long form, they’ve progressed to the “wash-wash” portion, where victims are shown a trunk full of black construction paper and told that it’s hundred dollar bills in disguise.
Would a mainstream book store like Barnes and Noble really carry conspiracy theory crap like that?
‘Fraid so
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Wheres-the-Birth-Certificate/Jerome-Corsi/e/9781936488292/?itm=1&USRI=corsi
here’s a powerful u-tube that shines the light on cockroach Klansman Trump, a must see video:
http://www.baratunde.com/blog/2011/4/27/with-president-obamas-birth-certificate-klansman-trump-remin.html
.
I agree, Trump is a bigot and racist
> as it suggests that Mr. Obama Sr. possessed a time machine
Well, that would definitely refute the Obot argument that it’s silly someone conspired 50 years ago to one day have baby Obama installed as president.
Now it all makes sense! The conspiracy only started some time in the 2000s, then they used a time machine to retroactively have baby Obama born in Hawaii instead of Kenya and they also helped his dad lose a couple of years. Occam’s Razor says so!
And he can’t be an NBC because he wasn’t one in the original timeline! The founders relied on Vattel who said “les naturels, ou indigènes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parents citoyens, sans l’intervention d’une machine à explorer les temps”!
Have I about summed up how crazy the birfer theories will be by 2014?
PS. Where’s the original time line birth certificate?
The KKK is not likely to hang up it’s robes anytime soon, so this issue is not going anywhere.
Dr. C., I’m surprised you wrote the title of this article because you try to be respectful to everyone. While I understand your analogy, I think it dehumanizes the birthers. Maybe “Birthers are scurrying like cockroaches” would be less offensive? I don’t know what others think, but it just rubs me the wrong way.
Slartibartfast, I know a lot of people here say the birthers are racist; and, undeniably some are, but I think most of them are xenophobes. If you think xenophobia is racism, then you’d accurately be describing them as racists but I don’t have that viewpoint. Personally, I view xenophobia as something similar to racism but not the same. Most of the people I talk to who oppose Obama don’t have a problem with him being black. Their problem with him is that they think he’s a secret Muslim or a secret communist.
When they say, “We don’t know who Obama is,” they mean it. Why don’t they know who he is? Because of ambiguity. Obama doesn’t neatly fit into categories. He’s black AND white. They have a problem with all of his dualities: “He’s a dual citizen; he can’t be President.”
It’s a natural part of the human condition to categorize things: good or bad, male or female, black or white. We know intellectually that life is more complex than that, but our emotions don’t. Think of how many otherwise smart people are thrown for a loop by a “Pat,” an androgenous person who appears to be neither male nor female. People want to know if Pat is male or female, when in many cases, it’s irrelevant.
It’s my theory that Obama is the birther’s Pat. He must be one or the other. He can’t be
both; and, if he is, there’s a major problem with that. Is he black or white? No, he’s an Arab. Is he a Muslim or a Christian? Must be a Muslim considering his background. Is he American or a foreigner? He spent part of his childhood in a foreign country, must be a foreigner.
Obama’s multiculturalism which appeals to liberals and people throughout the world is precisely what turns off many of the birthers. That’s my theory, anyway.
That’s a great idea!
I like that idea, too.
Apparently you didn’t understand because I was not using an analogy; I was using a metaphor. If I had written as you suggest, then it would have been a simile, not a metaphor. Refer to the following brief article on the differences between the three.
See: http://ask.yahoo.com/20030623.html
I chose the cockroach metaphor for its evocative power, and I stand behind it. What I meant is clearly stated at the head of the article.
So Trump is very proud that President Obama has proved to the country that Trump is liar.
I think that birtherism is rooted in prejudice against President Obama (for whatever reason) – I don’t believe that one can be a birther without being bigoted against him. After President Obama showed his papers yesterday, I am no longer willing to give birthers the benefit of the doubt that their bigotry is not racially based and I think it is important to point out that many of the birther pivots we’ve been seeing (‘it’s a fraud’ or ‘how did he get into Columbia/Harvard’) are racist in their construction even if they are not racist in their intent. Anyone who makes one of these pivots is a racist and should be called out for what they are (my opinion).
I agree with the rest of the stuff you said.
Real simple
Start point, “All Birfers are bigots but not all Birfer bigots are racist”
HOWEVER, the issuance of the LGBC has added a filter such that for the filter we now have “All remaining Birthers are both Bigots AND Racist”
And I still wouldn’t piss on any of them if they were on fire.
Well, we don’t have to agree on everything, do we? I was just expressing my viewpoint. I think we agree on a lot of other things. The “how did he get into Harvard” criticism definitely has racial undertones. It implies that the reason he got into an ivy league school was affirmative action. I’d tell Trump it could’ve been any number of reasons like, say, his community organizing work. Or maybe Obama was given legacy preference at Harvard. Trump certainly knows all about that. He’s benefited for years from the legacy of his father. No matter how Obama got in, he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard which means that he excelled there.
Birthers will take further proof they’re wrong as evidence that they’re right about a subject they never had any valid reason or evidence to question in the first place.
Ha! Ha!
I’m reserving judgment on Trump until he makes his announcement in May. I think there’s a 40% chance this is part of his new reality show, “Celebrity President.” Remember, he said, “I think you will be surprised at a number of things, but I think you will be surprised at what my announcement is.”
Nothing would be more surprising than “You got punked. I knew Obama had a birth certificate.”
You know, I think we are a bunch of anal retentives around here. At least me, anyway. My first reaction was, yes, Dr. C. is right. I can’t get away with ANYTHING around here. You guys are on too much on your toes. Why did I say analogy? Bad me.
Then, I realized a simile is a type of metaphor and a metaphor suggests an analogy, and I was going to post links. Never mind.
Xenophobia IS a clear form of bigotry.
It is okay for people to be merely “afraid” of things or simply…or merely ignorant of cultural issues they are simply ignorant about…
But once those fears & ignorance LEAD to actual MISTREATMENT of others…that is where it crosses the line into BIGOTRY and is NOT OK.
There is no acceptable excuse for them to use those fears as an excuse or justification to lie, demonize or get away with holding others to a different standard.
Such forms of bigotry SHOULD be denounced and not tolerated in a fair and open society.
I agree with your descriptions and explanation for what aspects are causing difficulty for certain people to grasp and YES those are OTHER forms of BIGOTRY beyond the issue of race.
Their “uncomfortableness” is an explanation, but it does NOT give them the EXCUSE NOR RIGHT to be ACTIONABLE in their words or deeds with their Xenophobia. That is when it becomes BIGOTRY.
You cannot justify treating others differently or poorly because of one’s “uncomfortableness” with them.
So NO, it is NOT ok for them to hold Obama to some different standard – regardless of what their base reason for such HYPOCRISY is.
Our country and laws are based on the principal of ALL of us being treated EQUAL.
I’m related to a few people who think Obama is a secret Muslim or communist, and I don’t think their minds will be changed by me denouncing them as bigots. I referred one of them to this web site, because it debunks numerous conspiracy theories in a rational manner. I prefer to combat prejudice by education and communication. I think other people here, including you, must feel the same way. Otherwise, why bother debunking?
My cousin’s wife believed that President Obama was a secret Muslim the summer before the election. When I asked her about it the next year she said something to the effect that she couldn’t keep believing that or it would eat her up inside (which struck me as one of the more rational statements I’ve ever heard a person make about one of their own beliefs). If she had persisted, I certainly wouldn’t have been confrontational with her (I probably would have appealed to her religious beliefs – she’s a very committed Christian [in the non-hypocritical way…]) and would have tried to inform her of the facts in as gentle a way as possible. That being said…
COMES NOW, by special appearance, without accepting the jurisdiction of this website, alleged commenter, Slartibartfast, a living, breathing, flesh and blood, sovereign man on the land, a Natural Born American Citizen and Citizen of the Great State of Michigan, with and claiming all his inherent, unlimited, unalienable Constitutionally guaranteed Rights, secured for him by the federal and state Constitutions, with his name properly spelled only in upper and lower case letters and herby declares that as of the release of the president’s LFBC, there exists, on the intertubes, a state of affairs known neither as ‘rabbit season’ nor ‘duck season’ but rather being called ‘BIRTHER SEASON’.
Get your flames good and hot, boys and girls – there’s no bag limit on seditious birther trash!
My mother who’s in her 80’s was frustrated by one of her friends. She told her friend she was voting for Obama, and the friend started raging against “the Muslim.” She tried to tell her he’s not a Muslim, but she wouldn’t listen. My mother said to me afterwards, “it’s just not Christian to dislike someone because they’re Muslim.”
Look, I agree and understand with what you are saying, in terms of trying to reach out to people – WHO ARE ACTUALLY REACHABLE.
Look, face it, such examples as you described – these folks ARE still bigots. Just that you don’t need to rub their nose in it and remind them of it. Nor should you enable their bigotry by pretending it doesn’t exist and making excuses for them on it.
There are ways to compassionately try to reach out to such folks. Such ways have been stated in a lot of the analysis stories of how to have a constructive dialog to reach through to people who are exhibiting strong confirmation bias. If you are trying to reach them, you need to start the conversation on some sort of common ground empathy of their “emotional” turf and worldview. You have to be able to speak their language without actually drinking their kool-aid or carrying their water so to speak.
Not necessarily an easy task, but it can be done. So I applaud you for looking for a compassionate approach to try to reach people you personally know who are affected like this. Just please don’t be in denial that they are still bigots (whether intentional or not) who will remain bigots and continue to do bigoted things if you don’t bring them around to a better way of acting out on their emotions. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t still human and don’t have a heart in other ways. Classic example – Archie Bunker. Just don’t try to be too naive here either – facts and evidence aren’t going to change many of their internal prejudices…all you can try to do is talk them off the ledge of their fears and not obsess or worry over it so much.
However, most of the trolls who come here are not just sincere bigots looking for a way to reach out and find answers to deal with their fears and confusion. It becomes quickly clear that most of them are intentionally here to sow and spread the lies and doubts. They are on a mission to spread their cancer to others. Facts, education, truth – NONE of this matters to these types.
I have no sympathy or hesitancy in trying to call them out for what they are doing as soon as that becomes apparent and until they change their tune. Same for those bigots pushing this that I might enounter in the real world.
What I’m getting at is that there is a significant segment of this population that is so committed and driven by it (usually the ones who have to bring it up into any conversation) that it is woefully naive to think they actually can be reached or have any sincere desire to have a real conversation or find some compassionate understanding and agree to disagree.
Best to just call these types out as quickly as possible for what they are and expose their con game so that others aren’t duped and so they know they can’t get away with their scams.
Trust me, I have several family (such a very close brother & sister-in law that are die-hard Tea Party Glen Beck & FNC fans who often use their limited family vacation time over the past 2 years to go to 9/12 rallies in DC, my state capital or locally and who have hated Obama with a seething visceral passion that has been evident since early 2008), lots of similar type folks in my very GOP city & county where I live, as well as a number of friends, extended family, associates and business associates that display various degrees of this thinking…so yeah – trust me, I know what you’re talking about and I’ve been able to manage ways to remain cordial relationships with just about all of them in terms of how I have to deal with them when I see them.
There is no easy or catch-all answer for how to do this and really it comes to how you individually relate to that person and can reach them. I guess the general thing I apply is that when they start going off, I try to just get them to snap out of it by focusing their attention back to whatever we’re supposed to be doing or meeting with each other about or if we have to stay on a political topic, to try to get them away from the slogans and high-level generalizations and away from their targeting a person (Obama, Pelosi, etc.) instead of some specific problem of what they care about and why they care or to gently nudge the conversation to figure out what they really are worried/upset about.
(Because I’ve found that more than half the time they are just really angry/cranky/unhappy at the moment because of something else going on in their life that sets them off and suddenly any big bogeyman target group, issue, or figurehead that they have a “negative” feeling towards (like Obama or any “other” groups (blacks, muslims, Catholics, Jews, Democrats, teachers, unions, or whatever convenient puching-bag group that shockingly comes off their tongue, etc., etc.)) becomes the convenient punching bag to vent and blame.))
It is definitely not easy to have these conversations and steer things away or back to less heated topics and it certainly doesn’t always work, but all I can share is my experiences and try to generalize how I’ve had to approach these scenarios with those I deal with…