The Associated Press reports [alternate link] an interview with special assistant to the Hawaii state attorney general Joshua Wisch. The AP article said:
Wisch also said Obama obtained a copy of his own certification of live birth and publicly released it.
The AP is perhaps reporting this based on an interview Wisch gave to MSNBC, who reported:
But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated “certification of live birth” form that everybody else gets –” which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
An AP reporter visited the Hawaii Department of Health, and snapped this photo from the 1961 public birth index.
Wisch is “special assistant to the state attorney general.” The Attorney General is David Louie.
Oh, and that has to be fake, since none of them have index numbers. And, without index numbers, how do we know that any of them really exist!
as more facts are revealed we find that birthers are allergic to facts, especially when true. Long form, short form, any form, birth index all make no difference to the deluded, so why even try? Hating Obama causes brain damage.
birthers are brilliant, here’s one of them commenting on the index:
.
Oh there is proof!!!! a computer generated list with Obama’s name on it from 1064… Only problem, there were no computer generated lists in 1964. Nice try
.
yes, bithers go out of their way to show _______________!
Thanks. I gotta slow down.
ZOMG no numbers!
I actually ran across a computerized birth record in a state database for a child whose mother was born in the 15th century. It sorta jumped out because Microsoft SQL Server datetime columns won’t hold dates that old.
This is what I was wondering about before. I always heard about the birth index, but I was wondering why nobody got a copy or photo of it. I hope the AP reporter took a few more for context.
So it looks like it IS “written down” somewhere.
So, Doc, what is the signifigance of this? Can there be anyone on the Birth Index that was NOT born in Hawaii? What is a Birth Index used for?
Somebody out there is named “Duplicate Mae Obado?” Cool name!
I was responding to the typo “1064” date in the comment I was reading.
I was responding to the typo “1064‘ date in the comment I was reading.
.
that was the original typo by the brilliant birther in the comments section
But Hawai’i refuses to confirm if he did it at 3pm, facing west, using a blue pen and standing on one leg! They are hiding something!
Since male babies are not named until the bris, my father’s BC originally read “Baby Boy,” for the first name.
I did not have a bris. My mother wanted it done in a hospital by a surgeon, not at home by a non-MD mohel. She told me her father-in-law would not talk to her for six months afterward.
pig sighted flying over a frozen tundra in hell at freeperville …
But Doc this is only a confirmation of a confirmation of a confirmation confirming that the COLB is confirmed. We need another confirmation!!!
Are you sure about that?
If they were sincerely winning on the issues they wouldn’t need to resort to the birther stuff in the first place.
Nay, just an Obot troll.
According the birthers this isn’t a confirmation and they still haven’t confirmed it!!! ZOMFGZ
I thought as much.
It would be interesting to do a comparative study of obot trolls vs. birther trolls…
By the way – did the Hawai’i DoH highlight President Obama’s entry in the index or is that photoshopped in?
We talked about her before on PJ. Her sister has to be named “Triplicate Sue Obado”.
Seriously, this must be a notation indicating a duplicated entry.
I can’t figure out why they’re so hung up on the “AFRICAN” designation for race. Anyone who has seen a photocopy form of a 1961 Hawaii birth certificate will notice that the boxes for either parents’ race aren’t check boxes. All the forms we’ve seen show so many different designations, from white to Caucasian, and even American. I guess the birther have no concept about self-identification. A Kenyan of the time would have little concept about “Negro” – not having grown up in the US.
Doc, I meant what is this signifigance of the birth registry? I knw it doesn’t change birther’s minds, but how much damage does it do to the credibility of the movement?
From the linked article:
If I was GOP chairman, I would be very, very worried about these polls.
Here’s why: the way that pollsters determine whether someone is a “Republican” is that they ask.
If I was crunching numbers and comparing polls, I wouldn’t look at how many people think Obama was not American-born — I’d want to start by looking at the numbers of voters who identified themselves as “independent” vs. “republican” and “democrat”. If the rise in these numbers is also accompanied by a decline in the overall percentage of republicans, then those numbers tell a very different story.
And without those underlying percentages…. it’s hard to draw any conclusions.
In other words, if hypothetically during the “same” poll last year, 40% of survey respondents identified themselves as GOP, and 45% said that Obama was born in the US; , and this year 35% identify themselves as GOP and only 33% of those say that he was born in the US, you have a significant reduction overall in the number of survey respondents who both identify as GOP and believe Obama to be born in the US, which could indicate that birtherism is driving those people out of the party.
This adds nothing more to the controversy since these would be generated by the health department just as the newspaper announcements. So they would appear no matter how or by whom Obama’s birth was registered with the health department.
However what I’m curious about is if any more accurate dating appears in this index. Someone on this forum mentioned the “Native Born Citizen” site had a story about this in 2009:
https://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-hawaii-releases-publically-available-index-data/
There too no accurate information appears for dates. What I’m really interested in is accurate dating info on Obama’s parents marriage. It’s also given on that NBC page but without accurate dates.
Bob
I wasn’t addressing you. That’s why I began with “Doc,”
You should also change headline of your post. This is nothing new. Computer generated list for combined 5 year index has been made public last fall.
In August 2010, same AP writer (Mark Niesse) wrote an article saying that DoH offered birth index for 1961 for purchase ($98.75). This was debunked as a lie.
Niesse knows it and never issued a follow up story with the explanation. He keeps repeating what DoH tell him without asking them about past lies.
That has never been debunked as a lie.
All you have is some crazy nut, Butterdezillion, who has no credibility and appears to not know how to follow directions.
YOU are the only one lying here. I notice YOU never have the guts to request this index yourself and find out. You only repeat BZ’s crazy claims.
YOU are a fraud. Why won’t you put your money where your mouth is on this NC1? What are you afraid of???
We’ve issued this challenge to you for months now and you STILL won’t.
Your inaction and refusal to take these steps seems to reveal that you fully know you are full of complete BS on this topic.
hey G, nc1, like most birthers, has a strange definition of “lie”, poor guy, his nosering still hurts him. it was inserted by BerferStan hdqtrs (easier to lead him around, by the nose) so give him a little leeway, or not.
The devil is in the details. Without index number it is easier to manipulate the list. In addition, by printing names only, DoH hides the possibility that the list includes all records submitted to the state, not all of them may have been Accepted.
In addition, we don’t know which ones were submitted Late or Amended.
The original index from 1961 would have been a much more persuasive proof.
Well, I hate to keep bringing this up, but we know very well Obama;’s was not late or amended because it was filed 4 days after his birth and the newspaper announcement was in the paper 10 days after his birth.
As per act 96 it would have taken a sworn affidavit and hearing to get a BC from an unattended birth filed and that could not have been done in 4 days.
As per 338-05 only a Parent could have filed for a late form or amended form, and 338-06 only applied when the parent could not fill out the BC themselves and needed to get help doing it. So any speculation that the grandmother filed it without presenting the baby are false. They would not have accepted it.
And we know the birth was in the files 10 days after his birth as the DOH only send out birth announcements for those it was satisfied all the facts were genuine and the files were on the books. Which is just too short a timeframe for your crazy conspiracies.
Oh yeah and Albercombie saw Obama and his mom 3 days after the birth.
And we know that Lolo Soerto never adopted Obama, as adoptions were illegal in Indonesian law, and in any case he was sent back home after 4 years. And Lolo listed Obama’s birthplace as Hololulu. So why would it have been amended?
Which doesn’t leave you with a lot of time room to maneuver your stupid conspiracy into.
Oh yeah and Obama would have been naturalized immediately upon returning to the states. No need for vast conspiracies involving trans-location.
So you have a crime with no opportunity to occur, no motive to commit and no evidence that it even occurred.
Troll away.
In related birther news, Major General Karl R. Horst, the Commanding Authority for the Military District of Washington D.C. has affirmed the sentence of Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin.
Any links for this story update?
link to Lakin story on CAAFlog
http://www.caaflog.com/category/ltc-lakin/
As someone who has worked in manufacturing before, even serial numbers aren’t a good indicator of age or what order something was made in.
Ideally you’d like it this way, but errors can occur whether written on paper, tags, computers, bar codes or whatever.
People into high dollar vintage items like guitars and cars have had their own unique stories when they traced back serial numbers.
Paperwork lost, duplicate items sharing the same number, missing ranges, etc.
Never know.
I would mention Indonesian law 62 of 1958:
This couldn’t apply to Obama since he was older, but there does seem to be adoption in Indonesia.
Thanks Doc. That’s actually really good to know. Like you said this does not apply to Obama, but I’m sure at some stage someone will try and claim he was born a year later so it could.
No this was your mistake. You can buy five years for about $500 or one year for about $100. Your stupidity does not make something a lie.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’m guessing that you have made a simple clerical error here, somehow typing a 0 instead of a 9.
Do you mind if this example is shown Orly Taitz next time she has delirium tremens over a Social Security Number?.
“Giving you the benefit of the doubt”
.
why give me benefit of doubt, I was quoting a silly bither as an example of their stupidity
OK?
Everyone’s favorite non-birther Hawaii state senator Sam Slom suggests Obama may have had a different father:
Hawaii senator questions Obama’s true birth father
‘There is information, for reasons known only to him, he doesn’t want released’
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=291041
Sen. Slom also said that he did not believe correct the claim that state law in Hawaii prevents a person from receiving a copy of their own original long form birth certificate.
Bob
So are Sen. Slom and yourself (by extension) calling the President’s mother a whore?
When Lani Guinier was nominated by Clinton, she had the same smears. She is Afro-Judeo, and was a red diaper baby.
Remember the mantra: only a communist would have relations with a negro. I’m surprised no one has said ‘Ann Dunham is really one of them. They’re the only ones who would have relations with a negro.’
I heard it all the time growing up.
No. She was young when she became pregnant. A common theory floating around is she got pregnant while in Washington state. The family, so goes the theory, moved to Hawaii because that was felt to have a more accepting attitude towards race relations. If the father was also young he very well might not have been able to handle the responsibility of being a father.
Then Obama would have stepped in to give the baby a name.
Bob
Clark: go Cheney yourself.
Note to Dr C: will you please ban this reptile?
What a stupid and completely fantasy theory… also, completely IRRELEVANT to any issues of NBC.
To summarize, you have NOTHING at all that in any way contradicts the evidence at hand NOR that changes the answers of the COLB – born in HONOLULU, HI and therefore is absolutely NOT relevant to the issue of NBC in any shape or form.
All you can do is make up specious fantasies worthy only of tabloid trash. Pretty sad and despicable, if you ask me.
“Cheney”?
You seem to be assuming that I’m taking the attitude if she became pregnant, it’s all her fault. No, the responsibility would also be on the father who could not handle the responsibility.
Bob
Mr. Clark,
It’s not that the story you made up was despicable (although I certainly wouldn’t make up such a story about your mother…), it’s that making up stories about President Obama’s dead mother in an attempt to cast aspersions on her character (and by extension her son’s character) is vile. I agree with Misha – go stuff a war criminal up your a$$ (which seems to me to be the proper definition of being ‘Cheneyed’…).
Stay tuned today, Monday, April 25, 2011 at 10 PM Eastern time. CNN’s Anderson Cooper is airing an on-camera interview of the former Hawaii Director of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino. Apparently this is her first on-camera interview on the subject.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/25/ac360-preview-was-pres-obama-born-in-the-united-states/
Apparently, you are operating under the 1950’s mentality that if a young woman becomes pregnant and the father of the child abandons her, then she’s a horrible woman.
In that case the problem is yours.
Bob
And what bearing would that particular fantasy of yours have on the President’s eligibility?
No surprise, the news media is still operating under the impression of what bad people we are because we have doubts rather than what good reporters should be doing in asking Obama, “Mr. President why won’t you release the original long form birth certificate?”
Bob
If that were the case then he would be eligible. What I’m trying to grasp is a rational reason why Obama would want to resist something so utterly trivial as releasing the original long form birth certificate.
Bob
He hates you and wants you to suffer.
Thanks for the heads up. Looks to be good. AC does a great job with dealing with facts and debunking nuts. I’ll do my best to tune in.
Because your so-called “doubts” are beyond any sensible point of reason.
You only still have “doubts” because you desperately desire to have “doubts”. Your “doubts” are not based on any evidence and ALL evidence completey flies in the face of your so-called “doubts”.
You ARE bad people because of your utter dishonesty on the matter and your willful denial of reality, using the excuse of your so-called “doubts” as a cover for your simple petty bigotry and resentments. You are frauds, liars and con artist smear merchants. Those are all BAD and SHAMEFUL things to display.
NO. We are NOT the ones judging her or making up ridiculous speculative fantasies about someone’s dead parents to try to cast a cloud of meaningless tabloid-trash level aspersions against them. YOU are the petty and despicable fool who has sunk to such a rank level of debasement.
Arghhhh! What a time to be somewhere with no TV.
Trump claims Obama birth certificate ‘missing’
Editor’s note: Tune in to AC360° Monday beginning at 10pm ET to see more of Donald Trump’s interview and Part 1 of Gary Tuchman’s investigation into President Obama’s birthplace.
April 25th, 2011
06:42 PM ET
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/25/trump-claims-obama-birth-certificate-missing/
Bob
I hope Cooper treats her with the respect that she deserves. She was landed right in the middle of this birther mess through no fault of her own and she handled it with a huge amount of grace in what must have been a really trying time for her. And the thing is she almost certainly did not vote for Obama, which probably made it an even more galling thing for her.
She is the unsung hero of all this.
I hope she’s prepared for the nutjobs’ death threats.
Great point – who amongst us could say that they would have handled this as well? (To me, Dr. Dunham is an unsung heroine in this story as well…)
She was ahead of her time.
Orchestrated by Orly Taitz, a refusenik and refugee.
Hopefully the Secret Service will look into them… (after all, anyone willing to hurt Dr. Fukino would probably be eager to harm President Obama).
I got myself arrested at a Soviet embassy demonstration for the likes of her and Lieberman.
I’ll take Gorbachev.
I’m finding the misery to be quite entertaining. You can’t make this stuff up.
Lets face it, we all have issues with schadenfreude…
Cooper is doing a lousy job. He’s letting Trump walk all over him
Could someone provide a link when it is on the web?
I don’t have cable. My wife and I found the ropes were strong enough.
Thank you. I’ll be here all week.
Actually a lot of republicans voted for Obama because of dissatisfaction with Bush and because McCain was viewed as too allowed with Bush. There is also the fact that Obama was from her home state.
Bob
From the Huffington Post:
Jan Brewer: Birther Issue Leading Country ‘Down A Path Of Destruction’
PHOENIX — Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer says the so-called “birther” issue is a potentially destructive issue for the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/25/jan-brewer-birther-issue-path-of-destruction_n_853596.html
We use string and dixie cups.
That’s allied with him.
Bob
As I said, some republicans like Obama.
Just show the frigging thing, already.
Bob
True, but the guy who went to Hawaii did a better job. We’ve learned that you can file a Freedom of Information form to get an uncertified copy of a full photocopy birth certificate. He didn’t say “uncertified” but the way it was described it sure sounds like it’s uncertified because they said it’s not suitable for legal purposes. They said only one person in the last year obtained one. It was a male birther. So does that mean Danae is a male?
From the article:
She must really like Obama.
Bob
It is hard to get a word in edgewise with Trump, as we’ve seen repeatedly in interview after interview.
As AC has said, this is a 2-part story, with the rest of the intervew airing tomorrow in the same hour. I’ll reserve judgement until after I’ve seen the whole thing.
Other than the segment portions with Trump blathering on and barely letting AC get a word in edgewise, the rest of the program that dealt with the issue was all debunking of Birther claims and included actual footage of the investigation and interviews they did in HI, as well as some legal analysis after the Trump segment. As AC mentioned, we’ll get more on these things in part 2 tomorrow as well.
She said the bill “was poorly crafted.” You don’t have to like Obama to see that. It’s possible to write a constitutional bill asking for documentation of natural born citizenship. The Arizona bill wasn’t, and it set the stage for numerous, costly lawsuits.
Yeah, they can get a “souvenir” as Doc calls it. It doesn’t give any more relevant information than is on the COLB and is not suitable for legal purposes.
Really? That’s a common theory?
The Dunhams moved to Hawaii in the summer of 1960. Stanley Ann became pregnant in November. approximately two months after she began classes at the University of Hawaii. So your “common theory” is nonsense. Do you believe that she had a 12-month pregnancy?
His choice of Palin as VP was also a big turnoff to a number of GOP voters. As was McCain’s weird “supsend his campaign” incident when the financial meltdown occurred. It came across as very irrational, tempermental and most definitely NOT presidential to a lot of folks.
When Trump said “You won’t believe what my guys on the ground in Hawaii are finding” he was correct. I won’t believe it.
Yes, G, the investigation they did in Hawaii was first rate.
One more thing Bob, if you are trying to insinuate that somehow these HI GOP members were Obama supporters, you are really out on an unsupported limb here.
These officials, such as Fukino, were appointed members of Gov Lingle’s team. Gov Lingle was quite involved in actively supporting McCain for President AGAINST Obama . If there was any bit of dirt they could have found to dig up on Obama and help McCain, they would have.
I didn’t particularly think they did a good job of explaining how legal a certified photocopy form of the birth certificate would be for normal birth certificate purposes.
As far as I know, an older certified photocopy form is as valid as the current Hawaii COLB. However – I can’t figure out why anyone would want to use one. It’s an irreplaceable document that is no longer issued. Why risk having it damaged or perhaps lost. It’s only $10 to get a COLB at the Health Dept office and should work for just about any purpose where a birth certificate is needed.
I also don’t like that Trump wasn’t adequately challenged when he said the COLB wasn’t good for getting a driver license, although AC did mention getting a passport with one.
I thought that AC did a great job – he let Trump spew a bunch of high-quality birther crazy (and called him on a couple of points which resulted in standard birther pivots) and then debunked him pretty thoroughly. I’m not a big fan of CNN (I find their ‘holier-than-thou’ centrist bias annoying), but I though they did very well on this (and very smoothly made Trump look like a complete whackjob…).
See Bob, that is the problem with slimy liars like you and others, who can simply deal with not liking people and not have to make up false stories.
She can simply disagree or even dislike Obama all she wants without having to resort to quackery and made up demagogery.
You could learn something from that and maybe restore what is left of your soul.
Linda Lingle was from St Louis, Missouri.
Another completely wrong fact brought to you by BIRTHERS! We ask questions because we don’t know anything!
The part I liked is they debunked the anti-birthers, so called, belief that you couldn’t get your own original long form even if you wanted to. They said you have to file a FOIA. But that means it is within the law to request it and if you want it, the state MUST provide it to you. They just don’t like to do it because it takes up so much time. It is much easier just to punch in some numbers in a computer and have it print out.
Note this means the Atty. Gen was speaking correctly when he said the Presidents birth documents could be released with his consent. The “spokesman” for that office was giving out incorrect information when he said this was against the law.
It is incumbent on the Atty. Gen that he direct his spokesman to correct that misstatement on the law he put out to the press.
Bob
No, he said that no further documents could be released without Obamas consent, and the law contains OR a lot so yada yada said it all before. This guy is falling into as much CTRL+V as MichealN.
I guess Birthers do this a lot when they run out of slogans. They only have 4 or 5 in their head it seems.
Most likely he isn’t aware of it and in any case it is of no significance whatsoever, so I’m hoping that the AG completely ignores this issue to concentrate on his less important daily duties just to piss off you and the other birthers… (and I’m guessing that’s exactly what will happen – if not the reason why).
I was referring to that quote of hers that I quoted.
Bob
No it isn’t
No, her statement is sheer demagoguery.
Bob
I was referring specifically to Fukino. Lingle did not see the document. She was relying on what Fukino told her.
Bob
As a believing hard right Republican, she correctly sees that the issue is destroying the Republican party, and therefore believes that birtherism is leading the country to destruction because she believes a Democratic party super-majority would be disastrous.
See? Not too hard to figure out a reason for her remarks other than she loving Obama.
??? How so?
You really live in some Bizarro-world universe in your own head, don’t you?
Project, much?
Whether or not you accept that, it was confirmed on AC that you could get the original long form if you want it. In any sense the spokesman was giving out incorrect information.
Bob
Bob
No, she said the country. Because that she thinks. If she meant the republican party that’s what she would have said.
Bob
Bob
That is not a universal “anti-birther” view. See the following article:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/10/long-form-sighted/
It actually confirmed what some of us suspected–that if you can get a “long form,” it won’t be a certified one. Would you be satisfied, Bob, if Obama presented an uncertified copy of his long form?
No it is important because it keeps getting picked up and repeated by different news organizations as if it’s true.
If this Atty. Gen. knowing allowed that to be continually repeated then that would be tantamount to this public official intentionally lying to the American people.
Bob
Yeah – I checked out the language of UIPA (they kept on saying FOIA on the broadcast) and I suspected that the Hawaii Attorney General was incorrect,
I sort of get what they meant about a “long form” not being useful for legal purposes, as they were referring to an unofficial uncertified copy.
“As I look down the invisible path to the future, I can see clearly before me the footprint of the hand of fate.” JBM
Do you think you can get a grand jury to indict the AG for that? Good luck with that. I really wish that the AG was doing it just to annoy you, but I’m guessing that he doesn’t know misinformation is being repeated (if I were in his position, I doubt that I would be interested in following the antics of birthers in the blogosphere…). In any case, it is not important because there is no legal significance to a long form – the COLB is the only document which can prove President Obama’s eligibility.
I wouldn’t call this “debunking” as much as providing, hopefully, is what is correctly called “clarification” on the matter.
Let’s be crystal clear – this REAFFIRMS that you can’t easily get the “long form” and that requesting such is NEITHER encouraged (they specifically stated that), nor a standard process. To have to go through an FOIA request to get access to your own record is quite an arduous exception process.
So far, other than “maybe” some personal curiosity use for “genealogy” study purposes, I’ve yet to hear any real reason why anyone would need to request their HI “long form”. From what we’ve just heard, such a copy doesn’t sound “certified” and they cautioned it could not be used everywhere, LIKE the COLB is DESIGNED FOR.
Therefore, there is still NO reason why Obama would waste time to do a FOIA request on himself to get this document.
It DOESN’T provide anything different in regards to the ONLY RELEVANT info for NBC – which the COLB, the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED HI BC FORM already tells us.
Again with your claims. You keep repeating this statement over and over again and have YET to show us ANY proof or evidence of the AG saying that, despite being called out on this REPEATEDLY and asked for it.
Put up or shut up. Based on your past lies here, without such proof, we can only assume this is yet another one of your lies.
I agree with her assessment of Birtherism. Birtherism is a very destructive path. When you base an entire philosophy on making up fictional smears and lies to demonize those you don’t like, particularly when that person is the leader of your country, such slimy dishonesty is destructive by its very nature.
The birther lies cannot hold up to scrutiny and thus destroy the reputations of those who foolishly support or spread them. The more such bad ethical behavior overtakes the GOP, the more they damage their own party and its prospects over time. The more such rephrensible behavior is allowed even tactict or dog-whistle support in our nation’s politics, the greater the harm to the body politic as a whole and to the nation.
When you unfairly and falsely make up smears just to demonize your opponent, you can also incite the most susceptible and unhinged amongst your crowd to not just see someone fairly as different or with differing views than them, but to dangerously perceive that they are facing some perceived “otherness” enemy that they can justify doing phsyical harm against…
…So yes…ALL of Birtherism is reprehensibly and most loathesomely destructive. In just about ever sense of the word.
Sorry, but calling demogauges out for being demogauges and pointing out that their behavior is destructive is NOT demogogary… so quit trying to twist things around and accept responsibility for your own vile behaviors for once.
What I heard is that birthers who have been claiming to have the one true reading of HRS 338 were full of s—. One doesn’t request the long form through 338 and because of the language in 338 the state must give the documents. A person goes to the FOIA law and because there is no exception under FOIA, the state has to give the info.
Will you acknowledge, Robert, that you’ve been talking out of your hindquarters when it comes to 338 requiring the state to release info?
The long form certificate presented in the CNN piece has not been publicly shown before and guess what, the document is nicely typed just like Nordykes documents.
Dr. Fukino mentioned that half of Obama’s original birth certificate was handwritten.
Home birth registration?
Bottom half.
That’s the part marked “For Medical and Health Use Only” which isn’t included on the copies that were once given out to families as part of the certification process. .
See http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/04/3/3/8/6716242889331073.gif for an example.
I don’t care how you argue it the state MUST provide it if requested.
Bob
I couldn’t tell. Was it filled in?
Bob
Whether you accept that interpretation of what the AG told the governor or not, this CNN report clearly shows that spokesman for the AG’s office was putting out incorrect information. In point of fact on request the state must provide the person’s own original long form birth certificate to himself.
Bob
> Home birth registration?
For the umpteenth time, what difference would it make? You’d still have to prove Obama was born outside the country to mark him “ineligible”. Just saying “it’s possible he was” won’t get you anywhere. It won’t even get enough people not to vote for him to make a difference, let alone have him “frog-marched out of the White House” or “keep him off the ballot in 2012”. Not according to the US Constitution in this universe.
For the 939843469370th time, a home birth registration would have taken 30 days to file, not 4. And it would not have had a doctors signature Your theory is dead. And a grandparent could not have made the filing anyway. See the actual 338-05, not the one in your own head.
Sure they do. They have to provide one of the 3 options, one of which is “Or part therof” And 338-18 states they cannot release any more information than is allowed by the current rules of the Department of Health except under narrow exceptions.
And if you think that they are changing the rules just because of the whining of a bunch of crazy birthers that have done nothing but annoy the DOH for 3 years, you are out of your crazy little mind.
And good catch on the Lingle/Fukino thing btw.
Supposing they don’t? What will you do? Hold your breath until you turn blue? Can we watch?
No. You can get an uncertified photocopy of the original document.
Can’t you get that through your head.
An uncertified copy is NOT a Birth Certificate in any sense what-so-ever.
I forgot to also say:
And the procedure is NOT a normal administrative procedure. You have to use the Hawai’ian Freedom of Information Act to get that uncertified copy.
A strong garbage bag and duct tape is more efficient.
And you agree that what you get is printed on plain paper, with no raised seal, no current date stamp, and signature by the current state resgistrar.
Can I watch, too?
What interpretation? I’ve asked you REPEATEDLY to show some link to where you claim the AG has said this.
You keep dodging and have NOT done so. Based on your prior history of lying here, I can only conclude that you are lying and making this claim up as well.
Put up or shut up. Where is the proof that the AG ever said what you claim???
I did repeatedly.
Bob
Bobbie,
The civil answer would have been to just provide the requested link – I’m curious as to why you wont do that? Did you lose the link? Did it rot? Did you make it up in the first place? Or are you just a petty, juvenile person?
Still beating this dead horse I see.
Where??? LIAR!
You keep dodging and making this claim of AG statements on multiple threads. On ALL of them, I’ve been repeatedly asking you for evidence of this statement.
As of yet, I have still not seen ONE single link of proof by you.
If you claim you have, than it should be easy enough for you to just show it instead of talk about it. You should be able to just as easily link to the comment on here where you’ve provided that already.
Put up or shut up, Bob. Stop being so dishonest.
Ask in a civil fashion and I’ll post the link again.
Bob
Why would there be a doctor’s signature on a home birth registration and birth notices in the local newspapers in less than a week after the hospital birth was registered with the state health bureau?
Why would Kapi’olani Medical Center publish a letter from Obama naming their facility as “the place of my birth” if he wasn’t actually born there? Why would a Republican governor name Kapi’olani as Obama’ birth hospital if that is not want it says on the birth certificate?
Oh,the irony. Can you see it? You’re refusing to provide something you have until you’re asked nicely. You have no intention of complying with the request until that person is no longer rude to you.
I think you’ve indirectly answered your own question as to why Obama isn’t providing an uncertified photocopy of his long form birth certificate, because the birthers haven’t asked in a civil fashion.
Dear Robert Clark
Would you mind awfully posting the link again like a good man. Please and thank you.
Dib dib and all that.
nemocapn, they’ve so far accused the President of murdering his own grandmother to hide up this supposed conspiracy. I doubt if these people ask “in a civil fashion” that Obama would release it to them, because he’s been putting up with 2 years of them calling him treasonist, communistic, grand-mother murdering usurper, despite there being no evidence that this actually happened.
If I was Obama, even if they did “ask in a civil fashion”, I’d say “No.” due to the history of them basically calling me every name in the book.
Suranis, he’s going to post a quote of the AG saying (according to the Governor) that they can’t release information without Obama’s permission. the AG never states what information that they might release, or if there is even information that they might release. He just says that they can’t release anything more without Obama’s permission.
Robert Clark has spun that to say that there is information, but that Obama won’t release it. It’s false to say that…
Of course, that’s not the most aggregious fallacy of logic.
There was actually someone who argued that because the State Department doesn’t accept some short-form birth certificates, that all short-form birth certificates must not be accepted by the State Department, and Obama’s doesn’t actually prove that he was born in the United States.
This has the same structure as this argument:
Some people are boys.
Queen Elizabeth is a person.
Therefore, Queen Elizabeth is a boy.
Humans have opposable thumbs.
Lemurs have opposable thumbs.
Therefore, you are a lemur.
Actually no, I posted it at least 4 or 5 times.
Someone makes a request of you. How do they phrase the request? Do they say, “You dumb SOB, I told you to do this! When are you going to f’ing do it!”
If you do it after he talks to you like that, he’s either a mafia boss and he can get you whacked or you’re his bitch.
Bob
And yet, the Birthers want Obama to comply with their requests after they basically did the same thing. Will the irony never end?
Actually you can find it yourself by doing a web search on the words I said it was about: the attorney general, governor, Obama, birth certificate, which is how I find it again after I’m asked again to post the link.
Hawaii governor cannot release Obama birth certificate, says state attorney general.
By The Associated Press | Published: 11:12 AM 01/22/2011
http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/22/hawaii-governor-cannot-release-obama-birth-certificate-says-state-attorney-general/
Bob
Yes! Here’s the complete story:
http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-if-dogs-could-write.html
F’ing A. The President is the b**** to the people.
Bob
I called it! What prize do I get?
Robert Clark, there is there implies nowhere that there is any releasable information if Obama gave his consent. He just said any information that could be released would still require Obama’s consent, as it’s still private information. It in no way implies that if he gives his consent that information would actually be released, nor what that information would be.
Robert,
Despite what you may think, being President does not mean that you give up the right to privacy that every other person in the United States enjoys. That does not mean that you have no right to privacy, and must comply with requests from the local village idiot, who demands that you prove something that was never in doubt in the first place except in the mind of the village idiot.
The President has proven his place of birth, plain and simple. The fact that the local village idiot covers his ears with his hands, closes his eyes shut tight, and yells at the top of his lungs, “I can’t hear you,” like a 5-year-old does not change the fact that Obama has proven his place of birth by releasing a document that is prima facie evidence of place of birth in any legal preceding.
He’s proven his place of birth. The people have absolutely no right to violate his right of privacy, no matter what office he may hold.
In that the people can vote him out if they don’t like him.
More people voted for Obama than for any other Presidential candidate in the history of this nation.
The people spoke and said that the COLB was sufficient. In 2012, they’ll have another chance to speak.
Just because you think something and you want the President to answer you doesn’t mean he is required to indulge your delusions!
WELL SAID!!!
Agreed. If it was me, I’d tell them to go pound salt.
Really? Then how come none of us, who all post here regularly can seem to recall ANY such posts from you? NOT EVEN ONE.
Further, why did you have to be asked over and over and over again about this issue to which you completely didn’t provide ANY response for the longest time?
That comes across more like a sneaky dodge to me. If you really HAD posted this before, you could have simply refered someone to the link of that comment with your post. Similary, If you really HAD posted this before (let alone “4-5 times” as you now claim), then you obviously have easy access to providing that source link and it would be little effort for you to either publish it again or reference ANY of these “multiple 4-5” prior posts for us to look at…
…Nothing you say ever seems to add up….
No, the President is the servant of the people, not the slave to the people.
Bob, Is that quote your “source” that you keep referring to for AG statements??? Is that ALL you’ve been referring to… because it doesn’t seem to match up with your complaints at all…
Unfortunately, it doesn’t say anything at all about “long forms” and doesn’t match up to the AG claims you’ve been ranting against.
You keep claiming that the AG is somehow a “liar” and if this quote above is your evidence of that… I fail to see any connection between your claims and what is stated there.
I’m at a complete loss here… its like all this time you’ve been ranting about a table and when I ask to see the table, you point me to a chair…
…except in the mind of some racists…
That is actually a good rejoinder to my admittedly flippant response.
Bob
No, it’s not false. According to Fukino, the original birth certificate is there. According to the CNN report broadcast yesterday and today, Obama could release it if he chose to. This confirms what the Atty. Gen. told the governor that the original birth certificate could be released with Obama’s consent.
Bob
And what is wrong with the reasons that White House officials gave for not making an end-run around DoH procedures to obtain a form with no legal significance and no new relevant information? (which cannot be released in a way which would be acceptable to the birthers)
The quote you keep repeating has the AG saying the birth certificate cannot be released without Obama’s consent.
That is different than saying the birth certificate can be released with consent.
Here’s another IQ test. Do you understand why those two statements are different?
No, I’m not saying the AG is a liar. I’m saying he accurately represented the law by saying the birth documents, including the original birth certificate, could be released with Obama’s consent.
What I was complaining about is the statement of the *spokesman* for the AG’s office Joshua Wisch that a copy of the original birth certificate could not be released even with the person’s consent.
Bob
STOP REPEATING THAT LIE!!!
1. Your own source you provided FOR the AG’s statement says NOTHING about “original birth certificates”.
2. Therefore there is NO evidence that backs up your claims about what the AG said. You are simply making up an interpretation that you desperately desire, that has NO basis in reality.
3. ANY actual official statements on the matter have ALL indicated that the HI DOH procedures do NOT release the “original long form” to anyone and that the ONLY CERTIFIED BC you can get is the COLB.
4. The AC interview gave us the legal way to get AROUND that HI DOH process and access that document and clearly admitted that the HI DOH discourages such actions. That other process is filing a HI FOIA request. That process is outside of the HI DOH regular procedures and allows for a method to supercede them to gain access to the document.
5. The AC coverage today also confirmed the White House position on the issue VERY explictily of WHY they will NOT take any steps to file such an extraordinary FOIA request. It is quite clear that their consistent position on Birthers is that NO matter of evidence will satisfy you and therefore they are NOT going to lift a finger to do so, no matter how loud you clamor or how many times you stomp your feed and wail. Nor do they have to. They have correctly written you folks off as beyond the reach of reason and NOT worth any effort on their part at all.
The reasonable interpretation of that is that it could be released with the person’s consent, otherwise there would be no reason to say it. Also, this has been confirmed by the CNN report Monday and Tuesday that the original birth certificate could be released with Obama’s consent.
Bob
I believe what was said is that he can get a copy of it. I sincerely doubt that they will just release it to anyone even if he tells them to
Fukino said the original birth certificate is there. The CNN report on both Monday and Tuesday confirmed that the original birth certificate could be released with Obama’s consent. This confirms the interpretation that the Atty. Gen. was telling the governor that the original birth certificate could be released with Obama’s consent.
Bob
Bob
No, the reasonable interpretation of it is to interpret it as it was said.
Obama’s release is a necessary, but not necessarily sufficient, requirement to releasing the documents.
“I cannot give you this hamburger unless you sign a waiver – it’s that hot. ”
Did I just say you don’t have to pay for the hamburger? That signing a waiver is the only thing that you need to do to get the hamburger?
1. See Greg’s post at 4/27 12:40 am.
2. See #3 & #4 of my post at 4/27 12:43 am.
Wisch’s statement IS correct for the HI DOH official procedures.
That is NOT contradicted by the FOIA method. FOIA is broader and bigger than just the HI DOH in its application to people’s rights to request various records with justified cause. FOIA answers the question you supposedly really wanted to know – is there any way to get that document. The answer is now YES… by using a legal procedure that get’s AROUND the existing HI DOH request standards.
It really is not a difficult concept for you to grasp.
*sheesh* Look… you should be excited that you now have an answer of how you can get around the HI DOH and get to such a document, if you so needed to. You’ve been pointed in the right direction, so you don’t end up at the wrong place requesting something you can’t get and ending with a frustrating dead end. Knowing where to go and what to file instead is important progress!!!
If you went directly to the HI DOH and tried to request that “long form” instead of filing the FOIA, you would most likely be wasting your time.
No, he was saying something stronger than that. He was saying it was actually *illegal* for someone to get a copy of their own original long form birth certificate. That is an extreme distortion of the actual state of affairs. Even if it is harder to get the long form, it definitely is not illegal.
Bob
Again…you are making connections between two SEPARATE things that are not supported by reality!
YES, Fukino confirmed it is there.
YES, the CNN reported a way to get that document – by filing a FOIA request.
FUKINO never mentioned the FOIA request. Nor did CNN in reference TO Fukino’s statements or procedures.
They are two separate and distict things. The FOIA request is a separate process to the HI DOH’s official procedures in regards to access to that document.
Further, it has been made clear that the FOIA would only result in a NON CERTIFIED copy, which has NO OFFICIAL use.
This is really not a difficult concept to grasp, Bob.
And CNN asked the White House why they wouldn’t do that and was given an entirely reasonable answer. So – President Obama could get it if he wanted, but it has no legal significance and wouldn’t change anyone’s mind so he’s not going to do it. Why should anyone waste another millisecond on this?
You are making up words again. Where did he say *illegal*
He did NOT.
Keep tilting at windmills Bobbie! I’m sure that the straw men you cut down along the way are good practice – you’ll get one of those suckers eventually…
I don’t know what CNN report you were watching, but the only person I heard say that was Donald Trump.
Republican governor incorrectly claimed that DoH issued a press-release about Kapiolani Hospital birth. No such press-release has ever been issued.
Kapiolani Hospital refused to confirm that Obama was born there.
How do you know that a hospital birth was recorded for Obama?
Descriptions of Obama’s birth registration document:
Dr. Fukino: “half typed and half handwritten”
gov. Abercrombie: “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”
Not true. They confirmed that he was born there just this week. You can listen to the phone all here: http://www.khow.com/pages/boyles.html?article=8479440
Plus Kapiolani published the letter from Obama claiming he was born at Kapiolani….
But nc1 knows this. The birthers can’t even argue or debate honestly anymore- all of their lies have been debunked, and they look like sore losers arguing minutiae and asking for confirmations upon confirmations…
No, on both Monday and Tuesday the correspondents of the Anderson Cooper 360 show stated the President can have the birth documents released if he gave consent to their release.
Bob
No, you LIAR. What was said is that he could get a non-certified copy via an FOIA request.
Why do you LIE?????
> Here’s another IQ test. Do you understand why those two statements are different?
Birfers prove time and again that they cannot grasp the logical difference between a necessary and a sufficient condition. Something any child can understand quickly, but totally lost to the birfers. Obviously because they don’t *want* to understand.
*yawn* Who cares about your silly and petty rants. They amount to nothing important about nothing relevant. Birtherism has been busted.
well, nc1 one better sit down and shut up. White Houuse just released the long form…and guess what numbers are on it?
YEP… “Long Form released”. Trump has 9:30am press conference “taking credit” and Obama is holding a 9:45am press conference to discuss why he took these extraordinary steps to release this…
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !
😀
Do you mean Orly Taitz?
Cue the Brigade of the de Vattelists.
And he did – suck on that Bobbie!
Cue a bunch of State Legislatures “suddenly” not caring about their Birther Bills anymore (unless they try to still push the completely Un-Consitutional “Vattel” route”).
Since Obama is now the ONLY candidate guaranteed to pass any “Birther Bill” that merely tries to pull the “certified original long form” trick… I can’t see them wanting to let that happen. LOL! Oh…the irony… and the problems when bigots try to change the rules to deny reality…such things always blow up in one’s face eventually…