In the real world, you can’t go around threatening the President and in the real world, having an opinion doesn’t usually put food on the table. Birther Daryn Moran on a YouTube video called President Obama a “known forger” (I didn’t know that) and said he was going to “gas up the car” and head to Washington and arrest the President himself, not with a shotgun or a knife, but with a Constitution and a Bible (and whole lot of delusional thinking IMO).
It’s that up close and personal thing that got Moran noticed by the Secret Service, who takes any physical threat to the President very seriously. It didn’t help, I suppose, that Moran goaded the Secret Service saying: “Call your Secret Service, coward…wimp…coward…You have no proof of who you are.”
According to an extended interview with Moran that appears in the Post & Email, Moran was visited at 3:30 AM by two Secret Service agents and a county sheriff. So I guess the trip to DC is off. Since then all of his Obama eligibility videos were taken down from YouTube. The following was reposted by someone else.
Sheriff, I’m gonna do your job
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Moran, who says he is unemployed since his discharge from the Air Force, has had another reality check. He explained his lack of income this way:
So I’ve been tied up, and I’ve been concerned about how an application for a job would go over when I go in for an interview and I have to explain the whole story, and I might need to tell them things that they might not like.
Moran has made an appeal for private charity, since he has no income due to his obsession with Obama taking up the time that could have been used looking for a job. I have no objection to people taking moral stands, but they should understand that moral stands can have consequences.
Update:
Moran arrived in DC and was again visited by the Secret Service and the Capitol Police, according to an email from Moran to the Post and Email.
My finances may run out and I may have to return home.
I agree with the Secret Service: he should seek psychiatric help. I’m not worried about Obama, but this guy may harm himself.
Apparently a visit from the Secret Service at 3:00 am made no impact on him.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/09/30/daryn-moran-reports-from-washington-dc/
He got some good advice, but I don’t think he is smart enough nor sane enough to take it,
“The first man to talk to me said I need psychiatric help. I told him that was his opinion. By the end, he asked me to go home.”
I’m not sure this guy could ever function at a day job. If he was serving any sort of customers I could see him trying his “OBAMA IS A SECRET MUSLIM FRAUD” lines on every single customer as if he was trying to make casual conversation – not to mention badgering coworkers with it.
Given he was discharged from the military for mental issues, is that the kind of thing that would show up on a background check? Or only the fact that he was discharged honorably?
I feel bad for his family, but the guy is seriously deluded. If he really did get a Secret Service visit, he needs to check himself. If there needs to be a next time they’re not going to be as polite.
” you know what my family is talking about at the dinner table!”
…….. treatment?
1/2 Birther + 1/2 Drama Queen = 1 Sad Mess
There’s something seriously Godsmacked about this guy. Birtherism is just a side dish to his embattled, persecuted Christianist main course. That’s the part, I think, that makes him dangerous,
I truly wonder what they taught him in the AirForce.
Thanks. Article updated.
“May those with the power of print, like WND, and Post and Email follow my story and share publicly. What is the Secret Service going to say? That all Americans who seek the arrest and trial of the criminal Obama are mental patients?”
i’m curious to see if WND does pick up on this. you’d think that moran’s potential to be a loose cannon would be something WND would want to avoid association with but….. we will see.
I bet they will. WND has stooped so far away from credibility due to their ODS that I don’t think there are many propaganda barriers they won’t cross anymore.
Bottom line, Moran the moron is going to end up either in jail, or destitute and move into his Birther parents basement. I doubt he will get the treatment he needs as his family is a bunch of fellow enablers to his ODS.
Why can’t there be treatment for ex government employees like Moran and Fitzpatrick? All it take is a few pills to treat these things now a days.
Sure its fun to laugh at guys like Fitzpatrick and lock them up when their brain chemistry gets out of whack due to a common treatable disease. But what century is this anyway? Do we still charge admission for people to laugh at the loonies in mental hospitals? Is this any way to treat a retired government employee whose brain chemistry has gotten out of balance through no fault of his own?
Where is the public employees union on this?
What evidence do you have that either Fitzpatrick or Moran is WILLING to take medications or go to therapy where a mental health professional might convince them that they need medication?
Or do you support the forced medicating of veterans against their will?
Are we sure this isn’t his announcement that he is running for the GOP nomination?
He’d fit right in with the current GOP field…
Even when Oily posted it on her site someone posted that we really should be encouraging him to find help. They just don’t get it.
Bazinga!
Let’s get Moran’s take on vaccinations, brainwashing and government endorsed, Christians-only prayer rallies.
i’m curious what his stance is on shellfish in the military.
He got some good advice, but I don’t think he is smart enough nor sane enough to take it,
“The first man to talk to me said I need psychiatric help. I told him that was his opinion. By the end, he asked me to go home.”
*************************************************************************************************
Most, as we see with RED PILL, won’t admit they need help & theraphy, really sad. They throw their life away for a phony birther scam, Corsi must be proud!
They plug their ears and cover their eyes and shout ” it’s for the constitution”
“What is the Secret Service going to say? That all Americans who seek the arrest and trial of the criminal Obama are mental patients?”
You mean all 12 of you? Well… yes.
Driving to Washington to effect a citizen’s arrest on a sitting President, just because you have allowed yourself to come to the delusion that he’s a criminal…. that’s pretty much a textbook case for mental illness.
Oh BTW, it looks like Post and Fail is allowing comments again…. heavily censored of course
4:20 I can see why the Secret Service visited him. So he apparently was discharged with “an adjustment disorder.” He needs to move on with his life, and seek medical attention.
Get a brain Moran!
How did Moran know we were laughing at him? Maybe he finds himself as ridiculous as everyone else.
Just to step into his mind for a moment, how does one carry out a citizen’s arrest on a sitting President? How does one get within a mile of the President’s door to knock on it?
Can you arrest someone armed with a Bible?
Obviously, this is ultimately a matter for doctors, but yes, in general, I do believe that some people ought to be committed against their will under proper medical advice, recommendation & supervision, and treated, temporarily at least, to prevent harm to themselves and others.
The SS might suggest / order the VA to perform various psych tests and deem him a serious enough of a threat for an ankle monitoring bracelet or other method of keeping track of his whereabouts.
I agree with Daniel and Doc here.
This guy isn’t rational if a 3AM “how ya doin?” visit didn’t scare him up.
More likely, it’ll just reinforce his beliefs that the evil gubbmint is on his tail and watching him.
Finally he might now be right, but I’m sure he was one who brought the attention to himself first, not the other way around.
Moran, Moron, Morals.. they’re all very close words, but their meanings are vastly different.
Doc C: “I’m not worried about Obama, but this guy may harm himself.”
He’s already harmed himself, and his family. He will have trouble finding work and supporting them because of his military ejection, his notoriety, and his inability to work next to and be civil with gays, Muslims, and minorities.
He thought fellow birthers would support him Lakin-style, and he frequently whines about how Lakin has a foundation and he got nothing.
He is basically a welfare queen who wants the world to support him now, and it is all the fault if the scary gay Muslim ni**ers oppressing him by existing and the stupid laws that consider their lives equal to him.
on P&E:
Howard F. Moran says:
Saturday, October 1, 2011 at 4:31 PM
I just got a text from Daryn’s wife Lupita and she said that the Secret Service “has filed his case” meaning they are going to leave Daryn alone (supposedly). It is becoming more and more clear that those in power do not want any press coverage about this issue because they do not want the American Public to be educated about the truth. (fyi, I am Daryn’s father, Retired MSgt, USAF)
—
This is really sad, a little scary.
“I just got a text from Daryn’s wife Lupita and she said that the Secret Service “has filed his case” meaning they are going to leave Daryn alone (supposedly). It is becoming more and more clear that those in power do not want any press coverage about this issue because they do not want the American Public to be educated about the truth. (fyi, I am Daryn’s father, Retired MSgt, USAF)”
Educated abut the truth? This guy has no new ideas in the birther world. The American Public has already seen this song and dance.
To the best of my knowledge neither Fitzpatrick nor Moran has ever had a competency hearing to determine if they are a danger to themselves or others. We are not talking about “some people,” we are discussing two specific individuals.
In the Soviet Union tens of thousands of dissidents were declared legally insane and sent to mental hospitals for nothing more than disagreeing with the state.
Moran, in particular, was undergoing psychological evaluation and treatment in the military which led to his discharge for (he says at different times) “an adjustment disorder” or “a personality disorder.”
In the United States there is just as much over-medication of mental disorders as there is under-medication of disorders.
So this guy is sitting in his car or a motel room somewhere in or near D.C., his hatred festering and the other birthers egging him on. Meanwhile, the Secret Service has to keep tabs on him and any compatriots, wasting their time and money. He should be getting help, or alternatively, locked up for OUR own good. He is a self-confessed danger to the community.
i put it down to a double dose of denial. i think dad was already willing to buy into the birther myth because of hatred of obama but i also believe now that is an even easier concept to accept rather then come to the painful conclusion that his son is mentally sick and needs medication and therapy.
I suspect both reasons are in play with his parents.
Agreed.
In his plea over at the P&E he’s already set himself up in typical paranoid martyr complex style by repeatedly giving the old “if anything happens to him you know who did it” spiel…
I’m not laughing at him. I put him on my prayer list.
Hopefully you are praying that he gets the professional mental help that he desperately needs…;and that he gets it *before* he does something even more stupid.
You mean socialized medicine?
Bite your tongue.
I’m sure that will be effective.
It worked for Perry to rain in Texas.
Oh, wait.
Just wait, they’ll get rain. Of course, it may be in the form of a hurricane, but it will rain sometime. Maybe July 29.
Text messages and comments on YouTube purported to be from family members aren’t convincing evidence of support.
Anyone could post to YouTube or send text messages in someone else’s name.
If those messages are real, however, they are appalling. He needs help, not encouragement.
I understand why it seems to make sense to force mentally ill people into treatment, but those treatments aren’t without real risks. It isn’t your place or my place or the government’s place to force people to assume those risks when a “cure” isn’t possible, and benefit is not assured.
There is no one treatment for mental illness that is guaranteed to work. Often, it takes multiple tries before a moderately successful treatment is found. Sometimes, successful treatment is never found. Meanwhile, the side effects can be debilitating and are occasionally deadly.
People who are mentally ill deserve every opportunity to be treated if they desire treatment. But if they choose not to be treated, they should not be forced except under very specific conditions (after they have been convicted of a serious crime, for one).
This is a difficult subject, because we tend to start the conversation with the fact that the person we’re talking about is mentally ill, presumed to be unable to make rational decisions. We should back up and start with the fact that they are people first. All people deserve to be able to have control of their own bodies and lives unless they commit a crime.
People not suffering from mental illness sometimes make irrational decisions.
People suffering from mental illness sometimes make rational decisions.
Unless the person has been convicted of a crime or is an immediate threat to themselves or others, they are free to make those choices.
I understand why it seems to make sense to force mentally ill people into treatment, but those treatments aren’t without real risks. It isn’t your place or my place or the government’s place to force people to assume those risks when a “cure” isn’t possible, and benefit is not assured.
Veterans aren’t members of the “public employees union.”
For Moran to be eligible for V.A. medical treatment, he would have to be able to demonstrate that his mental illness is service-related. Even if that were the case, he would have to apply for it.
I don’t know enough about the circumstances of Fitzpatrick’s “retirement” to know what medical benefits he might be eligible for.
What is clear is that neither man recognizes that he has a problem.
If this statement were coming from the families of victims of shootings by mentally ill people I would give it some credence. Otherwise, not so much.
“Birther encounters the real world”
A rare occurrence.
Mr. Moran hasn’t shot or (to anyone’s knowledge) harmed anyone.
If he breaks a law, arrest him, try him, and then ask a judge to force him to be treated if he’s found to be incompetent.
Until then, forcing individuals into treatment because they make other people uncomfortable isn’t humane.
Inflating spouting off with shooting someone is ridiculous.
I understand that mentally ill people can be scary. That doesn’t give society the right to deny them the same rights as anyone else. Everyone deserves due process. Not just the people who don’t scare you.
Being the victim of violence does not give you special insight into whether or not others, convicted of no crime, deserve basic human rights, including the ability to accept or refuse treatment.
That you have to use such an emotional appeal in an attempt to make your point speaks volumes.
a bizarre update to the moran odyssey
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/10/01/update-on-daryn-moran-in-washington-dc/
Russell Eugene Weston Jr. told a court-appointed psychiatrist that he stormed the U.S. Capitol last summer, killing two police officers, to prevent the United States from being annihilated by disease and legions of cannibals.
Read on:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/shooting/stories/weston042399.htm
Accident guy has car failure, his car ends up halfway through a meadow off the side of the road in the middle of nowhere.
He is standing there, glad he survived, but looking at the damage to the tires, one wheel is literally sheared off the car.
A man wanders across the meadow, surveys the damage and says “Yeah you need to put on your spare tire.”
Accident guy says, “That would be a great idea, but I have lost all my lug nuts in the accident, see, they came off with the wheel.”
Man says, “Let’s take one lug nut off each remaining wheel, and then use those to put your spare tire on. Might not get you far, but will get you out of here.”
Accident guy says, “Wow, thanks for your help, why are you here in the middle of nowhere?”
Man says, “It is an Insane Asylum. I am not here because I am stupid, I am here because I am crazy.”
Amusing Worldnutdaily Headline
Nation tearing itself apart’ over presidential eligibility
.
more at:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2011/10/02/amusing-worldnutdaily-headline/
.
intersting comments as well
Is the mockery of those who pray really necessary? Moran is obviously a troubled individual and we should all hope for the best for him; that he gets over his delusions and gets his life back in order.
Sure, especially if it is hollowed out and has a gun in it.
I agree with this bit above, but I don’t find the rest of your argument compelling, in theory or in practice. And the analogy with the former USSR’s abuse of psychiatric incarcerations is really a Godwin’s Law (x = Hitler) statement.
It certainly is the role of the family, and if the family doesn’t step up to the plate, of the medical professional to step in and recommend ways of making sure (or at least trying to sure) that a clearly disturbed person in placed, against his/her will if necessary, under medical supervision.
I don’t know if Moran fits that category — probably not from I read here — but his condition might worsen into schizophrenia and then he should be supervised medically.
Obviously, there’s no such things as a perfect system, mistakes are made, etc.
Quite the update. Included in it is link to a nearly 14 minute video from Moran’s wife and the email address for Moran being advertised by Manning is his wife’s email.
Sadly, she’s fully bought into his brainwashed birther nonsense and is fully encouraging & enabling his actions, just as his parents are. It is sad to hear the pain in her voice and the damage this is doing to her family and that she doesn’t understand how wrong she is about everything and her actions.
Sadly, I’ve seen similar statements like what she makes, from other conservative immigrants from 3rd world South American countries – they falsely equate the scars they suffered in their homelands and the way things work in those banana republics with what they perceive is happening in America and then buy into all sorts of crazy garbage and unconstitutional solutions to their irrational and misguided fears.
Unfortunately, Moran is doubling down and working every birther angle and has his wife & parents doing the same in order to try to get others to join Moran and follow his lead. That is where my sympathy for them has to end, as their pleas will only result in not only ruining their own family but the families of any gullible fools they succeed in enticing.
Also, their actions could incite a dangerous “lone wolf” nut. If something like that happens and some vile attempt on the President or any officials is made or any innocents get hurt as a result, then the entire Moran family is culpable and bears responsibility. Just sad and shameful to see such ODS delusions in play…
Truly a disturbing story about the clearly disturbed and the dangers they present.
IMPORTANT DISCLOSURE: Misha – you should have pointed out that the article was from 1999 , as without that context, the quote you cited makes the case seem recent.
Where exactly did you see a mockery of prayer? I guess it is all in interpretation, but in re-reading the comments, I didn’t come back with that takeaway.
I don’t have any problem with people praying / wishing / hoping that someone gets the help that they need (really all the same thing).
However, he definitely needs more help than just prayer. If the man is as mentally ill as he comes across, he’s unlikely to ever realize that he needs help and with his entire family buying into and enabling his delusions, it is unlikely that any of them will find proper reflection that leads to a course of action that can help him within their own prayers either…
It is a pretty tragic support structure dilemma and dynamic that he is facing, where any “prayers” from himself or his own family or the birther “supporters” goading him are likely to be for completely the opposite of what he needs to do to get better and rebuild his life.
A mere passive hope that he will just get better on his own or simply move on to other things, while admirable and touching, is in all honestly, extremely unrealistic and highly unlikely considering that dynamic of enablement within his support structure. What we have here is a slo-mo car wreck that we all wish could be prevented, but really don’t have any power to stop or even look away.
True, but I feel it is applicable. Orly is trying to incite a lone wolf, without qualification.
Bibi is stalling, believing that a Repug president will give him and Likud carte blanche. He and his crowd believe Obama will not be re-elected.
absolutely.
prayer is just a way for self-righteous and sanctimonious people to make themselves feel even more self-righteous and sanctimonious while not lifting a finger to provide real help, especially when the problem is beyond their ability to help.
Of course, despite any theoretical “discussion dispute” that is going on here, the situation you expressed below is how our system works.
No one is actually being forced into treatment simply for no reason. The only way that would happen is either voluntary (sadly, a highly improbable outcome in Moran’s case) or by the law breaking scenario and process you described.
I prefer compassionate solutions where possible and pragmatic as well and agree that you can’t force people to take medications they don’t want to take without a court order or appointed guardian to look out for them and those things don’t happen until someone crosses the line and breaks a law.
Where our system could use some improvement is in better detection/prevention so that “bad things” don’t have to happen before the people needing serious treatment are identified and at least strongly and repeatedly encouraged to get help…or to educate their support structure to help them. No, you can’t force treatment on folks at this stage…but somehow we need to come up with a better way to identify and closely monitor them, so they can be either helped (or deterred/stopped if needed) before they harm either themselves or others.
Do you have proof Moran’s family is involved? Everything I have seen claiming to be his father could be a sock-puppet by Moran himself.
Sef and Misha’s comments immediately following Joyeagle’s statement that she would put Moran in her prayers, plus Arrgh’s comment after yours. Arrgh’s especially. I’m not a religious man, but one thing that pisses me off is the snooty atheist type who looks down with scorn upon the religious. I personally view religion as a lot like a band that I’m not into. I don’t like the Rolling Stones either, but I don’t treat Rolling Stones fans like they’re idiots.
You must really hate Hitchens.
And no one screams, ‘the Rolling Stones are the devil in disguise. Let’s kill them, and burn down the arena where they are playing, making sure to chain the exits first.’
Know why the plague spread? Christians thought cats were the devil in disguise, so cats were killed by the thousands. Oops.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090829082207AA20vbk
I highly recommend Ken Burns’ Prohibition. It’s on PBS, tonight and tomorrow, at 8 PM. The first episode was last night.
“God uses some men, and some men use God” attributed to Samuel Clemens
Unfortunately, since Reagan, mental hospitals are few and far between.
Republicans cannot be bothered with taking care of the mentally unstable.
Reagan got the ball rolling by de-funding mental health facilities forcing them to close their doors.
Actually, I do support forced medication when there is a good chance that the person might pose a danger to themselves or anyone else.
There is an old axom that goes “If you think you are crazy or going crazy, you are perfectly sane. It is the people who think they are completely sane who are the crazy ones”.
axiom… oops
Another quote from DNA:
“It seemed to me,” said Wonko the Sane, “that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include a set of detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilization in which I could live and stay sane.”
I’ve been watching it. Good stuff. For those that missed the first part of this 3-part (6 hr total) documentary, the various parts will be replaying throughout the week. Check your local listings. Ken Burns is one of the best documentary historians of our time.
For those who can read between the lines it is a cautionary tale of the ever-present desires of some to legislate the morality of others. Possibly at some future time people will look back on today with similar wonder.
Your point is well taken. However, in light of your comment right here combined with aarrgghh’s statements, for me it just illustrates how what we take offense at is a matter of perspective on both sides.
Each of you view’s the other’s opinion as basically, sanctimonious and unhelpful. I understand both of your POV’s, concerns and explanations for what rubs you the wrong way about this topic and how the other’s perspective comes across to you.
Personally, I’ve got more of a middle ground opinion on the whole issue and focus more on the pragmatic impact of the action in my concerns.
Although I get how aarrgghh sees prayer, I would plead for him to realize that although yes, there are many who simply turn to prayer because an issue is beyond their ability to do more than that to help, that doesn’t always mean that the act of prayer itself is a “self-righteous and sanctimonious” excuse for “not lifting a finger to help”.
Whether you call it prayer or wishing or mere hopeful thinking, it is something we all do; and such action is often both instinctual and compassion based for events that are beyond our mere control. I see nothing wrong nor harmful with the mere hopeful thinking and prayers of this type. If anything, I see it as a positive sign of merely an empathetic connection to each other and the world.
Many of us hope/pray for a better tomorrow; for someone who is sick to get better; for wars to come to an end; for our favorite team to win its next game; that our government functions better to serve us; that someone who wronged us will see the light; that we might win the lottery. In many of these situations, we often have little or no control at all on the outcome of what we’re wishing for. In some situations, we full well know that what we hope/pray for is an extreme long-shot at best and highly implausible outcome (buying a lottery ticket, expecting recovery from a terminal condition, or continuing to root for an underdog team that is having a losing season). Yet we still do it, because that type of hope/prayer/wishful thinking is part of the good optimistic instinct within mankind that often keeps us going forward, despite difficult situations and conditions.
I see no harm in that and view such as a postive thing.
On the other side of the coin, yes, unfortunately there are those that use the term “prayer” in a very condescending way against others, in a selfish or dismissive way to merely feel better about themselves by diminishing others in their eyes. This is similar to the southern phrase of “bless his heart”, which is just a sugar-coated insult and not a blessing at all. “Prayer” in these terms is used in a negative way – either to insult or glibly dismiss a situation that they don’t want to face. Too often have I seen folks of a particular religious sect use this type of “I”ll pray for you” to someone of different beliefs to candy-coat their real statement of “go to Hell”.
Unfortunately, we have to acknowledge that too much of that type of negative, sanctimonious and condescending prayer also happens in casual conversations – which can easily rub others the wrong way and cause such an instinctive and natural counter-reaction against hearling someone publically invoke prayer.
This can easily lead those with such an instinctive negative reactions to end up coming across sanctimonious themselves in their own counter-statements, dismissively cutting down prayer and reacting as if all prayer motivations are the same. Sadly, that type of overreaction is no better (and in fact too similar) to the very thing that they are protesting against.
For me, my reaction to Joyeagle’s statement was not intented to be a negative one – just to assess clarity of what the purpose/goal of his prayer was for, as a simple statement of “I will pray for someone” doesn’t say anything about what outcome they are wishing for at all (do you pray that he “succeeds” in his mad quest, do you pray his family stops enabling him, do you pray that he seeks treatment, etc.)
In my response to him, I was merely focusing both on that clarity and expressing what help I think he needs, while also acknowledging the very real fact that his current environmental situation leads to the extreme unlikelyhood of a positive outcome, despite whatever prayer/wishful thinking we have.
I can understand the skeptical and negative responses that his mere & undefined simple statement of just offering prayer invoked in the suspicion of others – as such a vocal simple statement out of the blue, without any further clarification is often what we see with the “negative” types of prayer statements I’ve mentioned above. Further, Joyeagle has not come back on here yet to offer any further response or clarification, which just adds fuel to that suspicion of it being a glib statement and not a sincere one. So I understand the other reactions and interpretations that this unclarified statement is drawing here.
Sincere and heartfelt prayers and well wishing don’t usually require a form of public statement to a third-party audience. They happen all the time in people’s minds & hearts privately or are conveyed directly to someone with intent and purpose. Coming out to just make a public post of undefined prayer in this situation can reasonably be viewed with some red-flag suspicion of its purpose, sincerity and true intent.
Yes, that struck me as well all throughout watching it.
I avoided making that analogy. That belongs to someone else, I’m afraid.
I speak as a person who has advocated for mental health treatment, and as a family member of someone who lived her entire life with untreated bipolar disease and who suffered from a narcissistic personality. It’s one of the worst possible combinations of mental disorders. They are nasty, often violent and unpredictable.
It is the role of the family, but very quickly, there comes a point when there is very little the family can do. If you can persuade a nearby therapist or doctor that the patient needs immediate help, you can usually have them committed for 72 hours. After that, if the patient wants to leave, they can walk out the door in the absence of a court order. That court order, absent a crime being committed, will not force the patient to medicate. It just keeps them behind a locked door until they are no longer an immediate danger.
If you can get a court order, it will last as long as the person is seen to be an immediate danger to themselves or others. It doesn’t matter if they are delusional, living on the street, or anything else. Being “insane” (a term doctors do not use professionally) does not mean that you will be treated against your will. It means you will be held until you are no longer a danger. Being cooperative helps that process, but even when the patient is not cooperative, as soon as they are not a danger, they will be released.
It’s almost impossible to gain medical guardianship over another adult, even if that person is your parent or your child, as long as they are able to make their wants known and are able to show that they have some evidence of self control (“some” being “very little” in most cases). Even with it, it is rare to be able to force that person to take medication. Doctors are not keen on using physical force to make someone take medication if they haven’t committed a crime.
Moran is outside of the age of onset for most cases of schizophrenia. Delusions don’t always come from or result in schizophrenia. Plenty of delusional people are “just” in a full blown mania.
The French have a phrase for this, a Folie à deux, a madness shared by two. IANAD, but having seen it, I think it stems from the “normal” person desperately needing the other person to make rational sense.
i look upon with scorn anyone who entertains, or worse, proselytizes absurdities like religion, magic, conspiracy theories, alien visitations, past lives, time travel, psychic powers, astral projection, etc, etc, etc. i believe that such people should always be made to feel uncomfortable and silly. while many flirt with such beliefs simply as a means to escape boredom, voltaire warns that “those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
few contemporary examples are more explicit than dr. william lane craig, multi-degreed professor of philosophy, voluminous author, public speaker and debater, one of contemporary christianity’s leading defenders and no idiot by any conventional professional assessment; yet hear this exceptionally learned spokesman for the “religion of peace” justify genocide and the slaughter of children:
laud the victims and weep for their killers — voltaire was warning us of the craigs of the world.
an important point. (are you listening, rick perry et al?)
Good point. I think you are right about that.
This hasn’t been shown in Australia yet, but it will be soon I expect. Ken Burns is highly rated here.
In the mean time, Australia has its own version, sort of: Your Shout: The History of Australian Beer
Yes, I was actually thinking of the whole Rick Perry “pray for rain” political/religious stunt when I typed that. Definitely an example of cynical abuse and insincere and foolish type of prayer.
Point well taken.
Just be careful not to lump all religious folk into that category, even if you disagree with their beliefs. There are many folk that really are good and sincere and look to religion merely for inspiration or a guide and accept the metaphors and allegory of their cultural religious teachings and remain fairly humble and private about their faith. One can fully accept the spirit of Christmas and entertain the wonder of Santa Claus in their heart without actually believing that there is a literal toy factory at the North Pole filled with elves.
I lament at those who would take the name of God or Christ to do wrong or even a foolish stunt (taking the Lord’s name in vain comes to mind), yet I then must “pray” that I do not do the same. By prayer, I mean, for me, it would involve, silence, reflection, listening, etc. It is not about asking but about listening.
Perry would have done better to pray for strength and guidance to help them through the drought. Too often we want a cure when what we need is healing.
Wise words.
I’ve heard it’s lonely up there. A trick or treat time the elves head over to the Fortress of Solitude but no one is ever at home.
In particular, the lies told in anti-alcohol classes in public schools was chillingly similar to some of the clearly erroneous information which has been taught is “abstinence only” sex education classes.
ROTFLMAO!
Shades of Reefer Madness & McCarthyism too…
I guess the Temperence movement was the John Birch Society of their day…
That’s because everybody knows Santa outsourced everything to China years ago and laid the elves off. Some of them found work in Lappland posing for tourist photo’s but there aren’t very many tourists in Lappland. Most of them do part time piece work for Keebler’s these days.
[bada-bing]
Prohibition = Tea Party
Read on: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/purists-gone-wild/
and
The Tea Party Is a Religious Movement:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/scott-galupo/2011/08/17/the-tea-party-is-a-religious-movement
and
Tea Party’s War on America:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/the-tea-partys-war-on-america.html
“This recently retired officer is going to DC unarmed, I hope that the secret service will not be shooting at him”
This is the headline at Orly’s site about Moran’s ” field trip”.
My response is as follows;
Bob J
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 4th, 2011 @ 8:47 am
” Retired Officer”???????
Wrong on both words. He neither retired, nor is he an officer. Please don’t pull that Non- Com crap. An officer is a commissioned officer; someone who is called sir, and saluted by those of a lower rank. Call an NCO sir and see what happens. Retired? He was forced to leave, and after his discharge was approved, he refused to work his last few days.It is fine to have an opinion of why a person does something, but calling this guy, Moran, an retired officer shows that you don’t know anything about facts.
Tell me I am wrong. Anyone. I dare you.
–What are the odds it gets posted? I really don’t care, but as a veteran it chaps my ass when people ( Dr. Taitz and her followers) who scream for the truth can’t even get basic facts straight about the military, which they, supposedly, hold in such high regard. Moran is a disgrace to the uniform he was allowed to wear, and these jackanapes call him a retired officer. What the Fuck?!?!?!?!
Sorry, I try not to swear in print, but in this case it is appropo. Being a patriot is so much more than having a flag and knowing how to download the Constitution. How did these assholes hijack those ideals?
Well said Bob J, well said!
A snowflake’s chance on a very hot stove.
Taitz is a con artist like several other birthers who bleed money from the gullible.
Her fool’s errand is a cash cow that most likely supports her Gucci and Prada habits.
Right now this millionaire from Laguna Niguel, California is begging her idiotic sycophants for frequent flier miles and hotel credits for her return vacation to Hawaii under the guise of fulfilling their racist fantasies.
She is also begging her lickspittles to protest Google and Facebook for having the audacity to provide links and pages demanding that she be disbarred.
One of her flying monkey’s admitted in a FB post to proudly sending Orly money from her Social Security check. Orly is a birther bigot’s favorite gambling addiction and they refuse to believe it’s a pathetic ruse and scam because blind hatred, intolerance and fear based ignorance are far stronger than common sense.
{ Reply # 3}
Daryn Moran
October 8th, 2011 @ 10:45 am
Dear Dr. Orly Taitz:
Ive been fighting the birther cause now for several month and I was even discharged by the US Air Force in August for making my opinions clear about American Exceptionalism and against allowing gays or Muslims in the armed forces. As a good Christian like a real American should be, I want to ask all of your suporters to say a prayer to help us get back our God-given dominion, as the constitution has proved it should be over and over again. If all the millions of people who know Barrack Obama’s birth is made up to fool us would just say a prayer for me, then I have faith that I will find the money and support to keep my promise to my Saviour Jesus Christ that I will help bring our fake president to justice and bring some sanity back to America.
Thank you.
Daryn John Moran
{ Reply #4 }
dr_taitz@yahoo.com
October 8th, 2011 @ 12:49 pm
thank you
{ Reply # 6 }
Daryn Moran
October 8th, 2011 @ 3:03 pm
Dr. Orly:
Id appreciate it if you would let people know that I can’t do this alone. I need to find supporters who will join me in DC and otherw sho will be able to help me with some monthly funding for the cause.
Thank you again.
Daryn J. MOran
{Reply # 7 }
dr_taitz@yahoo.com
October 8th, 2011 @ 4:13 pm
your comments are posted, everybody is welcome to respond
{ Reply # 9}
9.Daryn Moran
October 8th, 2011 @ 5:09 pm
Dr. Orly:
If you could find it in your heart to make a donation to my cause, I would be able to keep up the fight for Jesus and for the real Americans who want to get rid of multiculturalism and put this country back to being run by the white Christian majority.
Daryn J. Moran
{ Reply 10}
10.Insight
October 8th, 2011 @ 8:57 pm
Get a job, Moran. You’re no Terry Lakin.
[ as an aside, this was the one that killed me.]
11.Daryn Moran
October 8th, 2011 @ 8:58 pm
@LAPANE
I am very insulted by your verry rude and disgusting language. God is a loving god but he will strike you down violently for your hate and for probably suporting the Islam religion which goes AGAINAT GOD!!
Daryn J. Moran
– — earlier ( maybe post 6,5,7,4, whatever, Lapane wrote fuckup vertically.)
and after some other commentary, here is my finally take on Moran. ( he deserves no title.)
Bob J
October 14th, 2011 @ 11:13 am
Pan handlin’ Moran.
Sad, man. Just sad. Didn’t you get discharged in August?
If you received an honorable discharge, why is it so hard to work?