The occasional open thread: down and dirty edition

189 Responses to The occasional open thread: down and dirty edition

1. Steve says:

   November 6, 2011 at 10:12 pm  Steve(Quote)

   Apparently, Howie Carr is a birther:

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC3HFI4sORs

   I’ve never understood why working people in Boston like him so much.
   I’ve also never understood how a guy who went to Deerfield Academy and live sin Wellesley could pass himself off as a working class guy.
2. US Citizen says:

   November 6, 2011 at 10:55 pm  US Citizen(Quote)

   Found this interesting page:

   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15391515

   From it, I learned that Moldovia has the most people leaving it than any other country and that California has more people than the entire country of Canada.
3. Paul Pieniezny says:

   November 7, 2011 at 4:03 am  Paul Pieniezny(Quote)

   Since I could not get to my computer while the test ws discussed on the earlier open thread, I will put my results here:

   Economic Left/Right: -5.12
   Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31

   Funny how I seem to be more to the right and a bit more authoritarian than most here (except for Squeeky on the second one). And to think I am both Church of England and a member of the socialist party.

   Perhaps it is the recorded memory of my parents that influenced a few of my choices.

   Of course, reading Orly, you always wonder how much of that is atavism at work.
4. Tarrant says:

   November 7, 2011 at 7:13 am  Tarrant(Quote)

   So, I had a chat with my former Ph.D. advisor and it made me think about birther “experts”.

   During graduate school my advisor had worked for many years in R&D before joining academia, and had hundreds of publications as well as a number of patents in a fairly niche field of engineering. Because of this “both sides of the fence” experience he was often called on to be an expert witness in technical trials (often patent lawsuits). In these, both sides would trot out their experts and talk up the hundreds of publications, years of experience, important discoveries, etc. to show that the people they were putting forward as experts were, actually, qualified to make judgments in the field. Now of course each side’s experts might have different conclusions, that happens in science, but no one ever put on the stand a graduate in Greek philosophy as an expert in engineering because they dabbled in it here and there outside of their day job.

   On ORYR someone (an Obot) about a month ago had commented and listed a number of noted Constitutional scholars and lawyers specializing in Constitutional law that had written articles about citizenship, all of which agreed that birth on American soil was sufficient for eligibility for the Presidency. A birther on ORYR replied:

   “How can these people really be considered constitutional scholars and experts if they don’t know that it takes two parents PLUS birth on American soil to be a natural born citizen?”

   That is, their qualifications were gated by the answer the birthers want to hear. Sandra Day O’Connor and Justice Scalia both have publicly said that birth is all it takes, with the former actually specifically addressing Obama, and the general birther response is that they’re part of the corrupt judiciary and don’t know about the “real” Constitution. It made me think of birther “experts” as Orly mentions in her lawsuits (but never actually names), and how birthers have this need to make it seem like they are the ones with the “expertise” on their side.

   Irey and Vogt are “world-renowned”. Orly at one point posted on her site a link to a new “expert” showing the “forgery” – a YouTube video of a 15-year old “proving” forgery. A birther “expert” is someone who gives a birther answer, regardless of other circumstances or actual past expertise (none of the birther “experts”, for example, have ever dissected or analyzed any OTHER documents, for example, using the same criteria, nor been acknowledged as an expert in the field in a court or the like).

   This spreads to everything else they do – because of the Justia mixup, Justia is now listed by them as the “premiere online legal index” – because if all it is is a free site used by non-lawyers (and for me, when I search Court cases, it isn’t anywhere near the first hit) then their argument falls flat that this is some grand conspiracy given it was the ONLY SITE so affected. Vattel is the “most significant work used by the Founding Fathers” despite it (as Doc C has shown) seemingly advocating the opposite of many of the rights enshrined in the Constitution. Article 2, Section 5 is the “most debated section at the Constitutional Convention”. Orly, Donofrio, and Apuzzo are “world-acknowledged” lawyers.

   Because they can’t actually show real expertise, they simply disavow anyone else’s and claim without backing that their side has it. It’s really kind of sad.
5. Daniel says:

   November 7, 2011 at 11:19 am  Daniel(Quote)

   Normal people look for evidence, and then use evidence to come to a conclusion.

   Birthers (and conspiracy nuts in general) decide what the conclusion must be, and then look for speculation and conjecture, which they can label as evidence, that fits what they need to be true.
6. John Woodman says:

   November 7, 2011 at 2:59 pm  John Woodman(Quote)

   I think coming to a conclusion first, then looking for evidence to support it, is perfectly “normal.” The problem is, it’s the other method (basing conclusion on evidence) that usually gets better results.

   That’s an aside. I just dropped by to let the Doc and others know that I’ve posted an (infrequent) new article at my own web site. WND has recently covered Dr. Laurie Roth’s Presidential campaign announcement, in which she states that the birth certificate is a “verified forgery.”

   The thing is, Roth ought to know better. In my article, I reveal two emails I sent her nearly two months ago regarding the issue.

   John Woodman
   obamabirthbook.com
7. Daniel says:

   November 7, 2011 at 5:20 pm  Daniel(Quote)

   John Woodman: I think coming to a conclusion first, then looking for evidence to support it, is perfectly “normal.”

   I’d have to disagree somewhat. When I referred to a conclusion, I was referring not only to the “decision” part, but also to the “ending” part. Normal people usually come to a hypothesis, or perhaps even as decision about what they would prefer, but it doesn’t end there. With a reasonable person, it remains open, in case the evidence they find points to a different conclusion.

   With birthers it really starts with a conclusion in the broadest sense of the word. Not only have they decided what the truth is, but it, quite literally, ends there. There is no possibility of a change in what they have already decided the truth must be. Any conflicting evidence is simply part of the grand conspiracy.
8. Sef says:

   November 7, 2011 at 5:23 pm  Sef(Quote)

   John Woodman: I think coming to a conclusion first, then looking for evidence to support it, is perfectly “normal.”

   You might wish to look up the definition of “prejudice”.
9. Tomas says:

   November 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm  Tomas(Quote)

   I found this posted on a site called “Investors Village” CWEI Board…Quite a few “birthers” hang out there. Amazing how uninformed and Gullible they are.

   The Case Against Barack Obama, Sr.
   By Don Wilkie

   It is widely held that Barack Obama, Sr., goat herder from Kenya, is the father of President Obama. We now know that this contention is probably false.

   In Obama’s autobiography, Dreams from My Father, he identifies Barack Obama, Sr. as his father. This book has been the primary source of information for all who have written about him. Yet two strong supporters of the president — David Remnick, author of The Bridge, a biography of Obama, and Janny Scott, author of A Singular Woman, a biography of Ann Dunham — have expressed doubts about the factual basis of Dreams:

   Remnick: “Obama’s memoir is a mixture of verifiable fact, recollection, recreation, invention and artful shaping.”

   Scott: “He gives his account of his parents’ fleeting coming together and breaking apart in language and cadences reminiscent of those of folk tales or myths.”

   Thanks to Jack Cashill, we now know that Dreams from My Father was in large part a creation of Obama’s neighbor and unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers, a man more interested in a “narrative” than in history. So, as a practical matter, when trying to determine the truth about Obama’s origins, everything from Dreams must be considered suspect.

   The Wedding That Wasn’t

   There is no record that Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, and Barack Obama, Sr. were ever married. There is no marriage license. There were no witnesses. But we do know from Ann’s registration at the University of Washington that Ann did take Obama’s name, so we must analyze what we know about their relationship.

   Ann supposedly met Obama in a Russian language class, one of two classes that we know Ann took at the University of Hawaii in the fall semester of 1960. The meeting story, however, comes from Dreams and is therefore unreliable. Sally Jacobs, in her book, The Other Barack, makes reference to “Barack Obama’s transcript from the University of Hawaii, Syracuse University, Frank C. Laubach Collection.” The transcript would show us if Obama Sr. took the same Russian class that Ann did. When I requested the same records that Sally Jacobs had seen, Nicole Dittrich, the Reading Room supervisor, informed me that “…Obama Sr.’s Hawaii transcript[s are] currently missing from our collection.”

   For the sake of argument, we will assume, regardless of how or when they met, that Ann and Obama said they were married. We will also assume that they were in love. We would then logically assume that the pair lived and acted like lovers. They did not.

   Heather Smathers, through a Freedom of Information Request (FOIA), posted on the internet Obama Sr.’s United States Immigration file. From the documents (55 pages in all) we learn that Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham lived separately.

   On page 35, William Wood wrote, “Barack Obama II, child living with mother (she resides with her parents and subject [Obama Sr.] resides at 1482 Alencastre St.).” The memo was dated 8/31/1961, only 27 days after their child was supposedly born. Their respective residences were over 7 miles away from each other.

   Compounding their geographical separation is the fact that there is no documentary evidence that Ann or Obama Sr. ever drove a car while in Hawaii. David Maraniss in “Into the Story” relates that “…she [Ann] never got a license and did not drive her entire life.” Obama was so poor that it is hard to imagine that he could afford roller skates, let alone a car.

   Even more peculiar is the fact that Ann Dunham left her parents’ home with her putatively newborn baby and enrolled in classes at the University of Washington in late August 1961. This is confirmed by enrollment records from the University of Washington. The classes she took were night classes.

   After Ann’s departure to Seattle, the couple would not see each other for ten years. From an article by John Griffin of the Honolulu Advertiser, we learn that Obama Sr. left Hawaii for Harvard on 6/22/1962. Ann did not return to Hawaii until late fall 1962 or early winter 1963, where she again enrolled in classes at the University of Hawaii.

   One might argue that when Obama and Ann first told of their marriage, they really were in love, but something happened that caused a separation. This contention is undermined by the immigration documents. On page 39, a 4/10/1961 memo from Lyle Dahlin mentions his suspicion that the marriage was not a real one. He wrote, “Recommend that Subject be closely questioned before another extention [sic] is granted – and denial be considered. If his USC [United States Citizen] wife tries to petition for him make sure an investigation is conducted as to the bona-fide of the marriage.”

   The earliest record we have of a marriage comes from this same memo: “Mrs. McCabe, University of Hawaii, Foreign Student advisor, called on 4/10/61 and reported that BARACK H OBAMA, a student at the University since 1959 was married on February 2, 1961 to Stanley Ann Dunham.”

   Page 42 is an “APPLICATION BY ALIEN STUDENT FOR PERMISSION TO ACCEPT EMPLOYMENT.” It was filled out, by hand, by Obama Sr. on 3/3/1961, only one month after his supposed marriage. Section 24 asked, “Economic necessity (explain how financial circumstances have changed since admission or change of status to student).” Obama Sr. wrote, “This is because I did not come with enough for the entire period of my stay and thought would get some from scholarship and work.” What is glaringly missing is any mention of a wife and soon-to-be child — important information, one would think, for a foreign student seeking permission to work.

   If anything had happened that ended their love for each other, it would have to have happened in the month of February 1961 for Obama not to mention his pregnant wife in March. Yet, in April, Mrs. McCabe reported that they were married. One must assume that it was either Obama or Ann who supplied that information, as there was no marriage record.

   The next time Obama filled out this application was on August 31, 1961 (reminder: nn and baby are now in Seattle). On it, he stated that he was married, but he did something curious. He wrote down a name but crossed it out, then filled in “Ann S. Dunham.” The crossed out name looks like it starts with a “K” like the “K” in Kenya just above it. His wife’s name in Kenya was Kezia. Whether the scratched out name was Kezia or not, it’s clear he wrote down another name before writing in Ann’s. Also, he got Ann’s name wrong. Stanley Ann Dunham, or S. Ann Dunham, is correct, but not Ann S. Dunham. He left the box for name and address of child blank.

   While Ann Was Away

   We have photographic evidence that Obama spent time with students from the East West Center (EWC). The EWC was created to promote understanding among the peoples of the Pacific Rim. The Center describes itself as “[a] public, nonprofit organization with funding from the U.S. government.” It was located on the campus of the University of Hawaii.

   The first sizable group of EWC students arrived in Hawaii in September 1961, after Ann had left for Seattle. Lois Duggan, a September enrollee, wrote to her fellow students when Barack Obama was elected president: “We all converged on Honolulu a month after he was born there (no, not in a manger!) and knew — well or in passing — his father, though most of us then had no idea there was a baby.” It appears that Obama Sr. never spoke about his wife and child to his EWC friends — strange behavior for a man who was supposedly in love.

   Hawaiian Governor Neil Abercrombie also claims to have known Obama Sr. while he was in Hawaii; he says he was his “best friend.” Most of what Governor Abercrombie has said about Ann and Obama Sr. has proved false. In The Bridge, a credulous David Remnick recorded a whopper: “‘Stanley was disappointed that Barack had left his daughter, but not too disappointed,’ Neal Abercrombie said. ‘He figured that the marriage was going to fail sooner or later and so it might as well not go on so long that it would hurt Little Barry, as he always called him.'”

   Ann left Obama behind in August of 1961, yet Abercrombie would have us believe that Obama left Ann behind in June of 1962. Clearly, Abercrombie can’t be believed. A “best friend” would know the facts, and Abercrombie obviously does not.

   Finally, on May 29, 1962, Obama wrote his sponsor Tom Mboya: “You know my wife is in Nairobi there and I would really appreciate any help you may give her.” Here Obama is talking about his wife Kezia, whom he left in Kenya. Thoughts of a wife and child in America seem never to have crossed his mind.

   OK, so they weren’t in love.

   If the supposed marriage to Ann wasn’t one of love, perhaps Obama Sr. was forced to marry her, shotgun-style. The few documents we have argue against this.

   The documents make clear that Obama Sr. was given a “CERTIFICATE OF ELIGIBILITY.” The previously mentioned memo from Lyle Dahlin noted that “[i]f he were convicted of bigamy we might get a deportation charge but not before.” Obama, faced with a shotgun marriage, would only have had to claim he still had a wife in Kenya.

   Perhaps Obama and Ann had a one-night fling and Obama consented to marry Ann for moral reasons, without coercion. In this scenario one would assume that Obama would take pride in and responsibility for raising his son. This assumption is again challenged by the documents we have.

   The first mention of a son in the immigration documents is on August 17, 1962. Obama was apparently in Baltimore on his way to Harvard. But the son he mentions is Roy Obama, from his wife Kezia. Barack Obama II isn’t listed as a son until April 21, 1964. This came as immigration officials were debating whether to ship Obama Sr. back to Kenya because, as M.F. McKeon of the Immigration Service wrote, “They were apparently having difficulty with his financial arrangements and couldn’t seem to figure out how many wives he had.” Obama Sr. listed the address of his son Barack as “C/O University of Hawaii, Honolulu Hawaii (page 14).” It appears Obama had no idea where his son was or how to contact him directly.

   But the Birth Certificate Lists Obama Sr. as the Father

   There are four anomalies in our president’s recently released birth certificate regarding his father.

   The father’s race is listed as African. Obama Sr. had to know that there were both white and black “Africans,” as both South Africa and Rhodesia were ruled by white minorities. Obama Sr. was quoted by John Griffin in the Honolulu Advertiser saying that it is “rather strange, even rather amusing to see Caucasians discriminated against here.” It is difficult to imagine that the father would give his race as “African.”

   The father’s birthplace is given as Kenya, East Africa. This is like saying United States, Central North America. On his “Alien Registration Fingerprint Chart” (page 52), his place of birth is listed as “Kisumu-Nyanza, Kenya.” Obviously, Obama knew where he was born.

   The baby’s name is listed as “Barack Hussein Obama, II.” But on page 14 of the immigration documents, Obama Sr. wrote the child’s name as “Barack Obama 2nd.”

   Finally, Obama Sr.’s age is incorrect. The birth certificate states that he was 25, when in reality he was 27. For the entire time he was in Hawaii, he listed his birth date as 6/18/1934 on all of his immigration documents, making him 27 on August 4th 1961, the alleged birth date of his alleged son.

   Listing his race as African, botching his place of birth, the ignorance of his son’s official name, and, most significantly, reporting an incorrect age, leaves us with only one conclusion: Obama Sr. was nowhere around when the birth certificate was being filled out.

   The Picture

   There is a picture of Ann’s father, Stanley Dunham, standing next to Obama Sr., with his arm around him. The picture has generated much discussion in the blogosphere.

   A careful review reveals many details which prove that it is a going away picture — probably taken on June 22, 1962, while Ann and baby were still in Seattle. Some have argued that because there are leis around Obama Sr.’s neck, it has to be an arrival picture. However, the website “Blooms of Hawaii” states that “[a] lei is bestowed on another for many reasons — it can symbolize love, friendship, parting, a wish for safety, and many other messages of peace.”

   If you look carefully at the 21 people in the picture, you can see that they are composed of two distinct groups: friends of Obama and crew from the boat that is taking him to the mainland. The two men in the middle wearing sailor suits and the man kneeling in the front with a steward or cook’s jacket on indicate crew, but some of Obama’s East-West Center friends appear in the picture. (Note: “best friend” Abercrombie does not!) They all arrived in Hawaii after September 1961, making this likely a going away picture.

   But there is more we can learn from this picture. Below is a cropped section focusing on Obama, the girl next to him, and Stanley Dunham.

   You can see Stanley’s arm around Obama. You can see Obama’s left arm, the one next to Stanley, holding a briefcase. What you can’t see is Obama’s right arm, or the girl’s left arm. It appears that their arms are around each other. Though this could be innocent, it could also show Obama with his girlfriend. How then, can we explain Stanley’s smiling visage?

   What makes sense?

   None of the scenarios for marriage we have discussed so far — love, or love with a separation, a shotgun marriage, or doing the “right thing” — makes any sense with the facts we know. There is one scenario, however, that makes a lot of sense.

   Let’s assume that Ann was impregnated by someone unknown and was facing the stigma of becoming an unwed mother. Obama Sr., for a fee, agreed to “marry” Ann. Being a foreign national from Kenya, there would be no liability for him (child support, etc.), and it might have been a help for extending his stay in America.

   Ann’s taking Obama’s name for the sake of being “respectable” would explain all of what we now know: why there was no love in the relationship, the separate living arrangements, Ann and Barry leaving Obama and moving to Seattle, the EWC friends knowing nothing about Ann and child, Obama’s letter to Mboya mentioning his wife Kezia, all of the mistakes on the birth certificate, and the apparent friendship between Obama and Ann’s father Stanley.

   The immigration documents support this scenario, as they show just how broke Obama Sr. was. On 3/3/1961 Obama Sr. claimed $1,200 in income and $2,000 in annual expenses (page 42). This was just one month after he was supposedly married. He had a shortfall of $800. He was a man in serious need of funds. A pay for service arrangement is eminently believable, especially when the immigration documents show that he earned $5.00 a day as a dishwasher at the Ink Blot Coffee Shop (page 43) and worked for the Dole Corporation as an “ordinary summer worker” for $1.33 per hour (page 35).

   But if they weren’t married, why did Ann file for divorce?

   Ann filed for divorce in January of 1964. Obama was notified while at Harvard; he signed an acknowledgement, and that was the extent of his involvement. My guess as to why Ann filed for a divorce, when there was no marriage, is that she was now in love with Lolo Soetoro. She wanted to make sure there was no legal reason, such as common-law marriage, that would potentially prevent their union. Ann and Lolo were married in March of 1965.

   We won’t be fooled again…

   The evidence is clear: there is no license; there was no marriage. Ann took Obama’s name, but there was no love, no estrangement, no coercion, no selfless gallantry in the “marriage.” Obama was a financially desperate student who got a big break when the Dunhams found him and paid him to be a father in name only. Ann and son Barry went on with their lives, and Obama continued on with his studies.

   Is it possible that our president doesn’t know this? I find that hard to believe. I do know, though, that he used the compelling, but mythical, story of an African father and Midwestern mother to get elected. I also believe that whether or not Obama knew the truth about his parents’ relationship, he didn’t realize then that Obama Sr.’s Kenyan nationality would lead opponents to question his “natural born citizen” status.

   In all likelihood, our President is a “natural born citizen” who was elected under false pretenses. Mr. President, in the next election, please run on your record and not a mythological past. History and your fellow citizens deserve this much.
10. Thinker says:

    November 8, 2011 at 12:28 am  Thinker(Quote)

    I post here occasionally as Critical Thinker. However, there is a very, very vile person who recently started posting at WND under the same moniker. This person has written really, truly despicable things–some of the worst I have ever read at WND. I have nothing to do with that person and I am changing my moniker to avoid any confusion.
11. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    November 8, 2011 at 12:46 am  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    Orly Taitz is getting some serious national media coverage of her Senate campaign.
12. G says:

    November 8, 2011 at 12:48 am  G(Quote)

    LOL!

    Dr. Conspiracy: Orly Taitz is getting some serious national media coverage of her Senate campaign.
13. Keith says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:02 am  Keith(Quote)

    John Woodman: I think coming to a conclusion first, then looking for evidence to support it, is perfectly “normal.”

    Ah, no.

    The “normal” thing is to observe some phenomenon, think about how that phenomenon might have occurred (that is, form a set of hypotheses) and then look for evidence that supports or negates the hypotheses until a conclusion can be formed about which hypothesis is most likely to correctly produce that phenomenon. And then revisit the process when new, seemingly contradictory data comes in.

    It is the iconic human behaviour pattern underlying the ‘Scientific Method’.

    It is only when people get lazy and forfeit their ability to think critically that they start taking short cuts like you describe. These people play into the hands of charlatans who are only too happy to provide validation to such people so that they can take advantage of them.
14. John Woodman says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:25 am  John Woodman(Quote)

    > You might wish to look up the definition of “prejudice”.

    My point is that prejudice is not an “abnormal” human condition. On the contrary, prejudices are quite normal for human beings. MOST of us have them, in one direction or another and to one degree or another. Most of us also resist (again to varying degrees) giving up those prejudices.

    This particular spot on the internet probably has a very high population of people who seek to hear the evidence first, and then decide. Such people are bound to come to better conclusions than people who make up their mind first and then look for evidence to support their conclusion, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize them as “normal” as against the “abnormal” of the others.

    People think differently, and there is a fairly wide range of what “normal” human thought processes and behavior are.
15. John Woodman says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:26 am  John Woodman(Quote)

    Or perhaps I’m just a bit less optimistic about “normal” human thought and behavior than some here. 🙂
16. obsolete says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:28 am  obsolete(Quote)

    John Woodman: Or perhaps I’m just a bit less optimistic about “normal” human thought and behavior than some here.

    Well, you do seem naively shocked when you come across political conservatives who use lies to promote their agenda, while I have realized this is the new norm.
17. G says:

    November 8, 2011 at 5:02 am  G(Quote)

    Your assessment and remarks here come across valid.

    Yes, sadly the world is full of people who do not think critically and who look to reinforce their gut prejudices first…and resist conclusions which contradict those biases. Therefore, I would agree with your conclusion that this is part of the natural (normal) range of the human condition.

    However, I would characterize it as something that holds us back as a people and a culture and something that society should always strive to encourage its people to learn to move past such biases. Therefore, just because it such prejudicial thinking is prevalent in our general population does not mean that we should simply accept and be ok with it.

    I would also agree that by very nature of this being a site focused on investigation and debunking of conspiracies, that the regular posters here are more likely to be those that do their best to try to use something approximating the scientific method in their thought and analysis processes.

    John Woodman: My point is that prejudice is not an “abnormal” human condition. On the contrary, prejudices are quite normal for human beings. MOST of us have them, in one direction or another and to one degree or another. Most of us also resist (again to varying degrees) giving up those prejudices.
    This particular spot on the internet probably has a very high population of people who seek to hear the evidence first, and then decide. Such people are bound to come to better conclusions than people who make up their mind first and then look for evidence to support their conclusion, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize them as “normal” as against the “abnormal” of the others.
    People think differently, and there is a fairly wide range of what “normal” human thought processes and behavior are.
18. Black Lion says:

    November 8, 2011 at 7:26 am  Black Lion(Quote)

    Tomas referred to the article found in the “American Stinker” magazine…So ridiculous it deserves to be laughed at…

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/the_case_against_barack_obama_sr.html

    The first paragraph says it all…

    “It is widely held that Barack Obama, Sr., goat herder from Kenya, is the father of President Obama. We now know that this contention is probably false.”
19. John Woodman says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:15 pm  John Woodman(Quote)

    G: However, I would characterize it as something that holds us back as a people and a culture and something that society should always strive to encourage its people to learn to move past such biases. Therefore, just because it such prejudicial thinking is prevalent in our general population does not mean that we should simply accept and be ok with it.

    Oh, I absolutely agree.
20. John Woodman says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:20 pm  John Woodman(Quote)

    obsolete: Well, you do seem naively shocked when you come across political conservatives who use lies to promote their agenda, while I have realized this is the new norm.

    I will admit that another part of the normal range of human behavior is that we naturally want to assume the best of “our” group, and often tend to be less charitable in our assumptions regarding people who are part of the “not-our” group.

    And I’ll also confess that I’m still hoping it’s NOT a “new norm” for conservatives to use lies to promote their agenda. Although lies generally seem to be pretty widespread in our society. Look at the high numbers of students who cheat on their schoolwork. Look at the high number of people who lie on resumes. Frankly, it does still seem a bit foreign to me.
21. obsolete says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:53 pm  obsolete(Quote)

    What’s it like to share your SSN with 50 people? Follow a victim’s struggle

    Quote: “Barnett’s predilection for assiduous recordkeeping offers a rare glimpse into the deeply flawed identity system used by the nation’s creditors and employers. It relies on the secrecy of SSNs. But Barnett’s number is hardly a secret; it’s the fraud connected to his identity that remains off limits, even to the victim.”

    http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/07/8687299-whats-it-like-to-share-your-ssn-with-50-people-follow-a-victims-struggle
22. joyeagle says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm  joyeagle(Quote)

    Just finished Clarence Thomas’ book, My Grandfather’s Son, and watching the hatchet job on Herman Cain … Conservatives certainly don’t own the market on lies and prejudice.

    John Woodman: I will admit that another part of the normal range of human behavior is that we naturally want to assume the best of “our” group, and often tend to be less charitable in our assumptions regarding people who are part of the “not-our” group.

    And I’ll also confess that I’m still hoping it’s NOT a “new norm” for conservatives to use lies to promote their agenda. Although lies generally seem to be pretty widespread in our society. Look at the high numbers of students who cheat on their schoolwork. Look at the high number of people who lie on resumes. Frankly, it does still seem a bit foreign to me.
23. Daniel says:

    November 8, 2011 at 1:58 pm  Daniel(Quote)

    http://orlytaitzesq.com/ is down again. Obviously Obama took her site down special in advance of killing the internet tomorrow. Obama thugs are probably tracking all of us right now.

    I do hop the black helicopters haven’t found her.

    http://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/
24. Scientist says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:08 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: Just finished Clarence Thomas’ book, My Grandfather’s Son, and watching the hatchet job on Herman Cain … Conservatives certainly don’t own the market on lies and prejudice.

    That’s right, paying compensation to not one, but two, women is what innocent people do. I’m sure you pay settlements all the time even when you do nothing wrong. Maybe you stick your hands up the skirt of any woman you interview, too. The guy is a sleaze, black, whiite, green or purple.
25. joyeagle says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm  joyeagle(Quote)

    Wow, “Scientist”!! No evidence needed for you–just anonymous tips, innuendo and allegations is good enough for you … and the black man is guilty.
    “Settlements” were severance packages … not from Cain but from NRA. It is rather naive to assume settlements infer guilt.
    “Lady number 4” just hugged Cain at a meeting 2 weeks ago–really upset?! She shares an apartment complex with David Axelrod … coincidence? She has numerous failed legal issues and financial struggles including 2 bankruptcies … but I am sure the news show tour and Gloria Allred gives her much credence! I am glad you again prove that you are no better than all of the birthers when it comes to evidence and coherence of logic. Just plain prejudiced.

    Scientist: That’s right, paying compensation to not one, but two, women is what innocent people do.I’m sure you pay settlements all the time even when you do nothing wrong.Maybe you stick your hands up the skirt of any woman you interview, too.The guy is a sleaze, black, whiite, green or purple.
26. gorefan says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:21 pm  gorefan(Quote)

    joyeagle: Conservatives certainly don’t own the market on lies and prejudice.

    Who are you saying is lying? The women? the news media? how exactly is it a hatchet job? Do you think that if these claims had been made against any other candidate, they would be ignored? You agree the settlements did occur, right?
27. gorefan says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:31 pm  gorefan(Quote)

    joyeagle: “Settlements” were severance packages … not from Cain but from NRA.

    That is how Cain characterizes them, but not how the lawyer for one of the women characterizes them

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387211n

    Even the NRA says that it was settlement.

    “The National Restaurant Association on Friday confirmed that it granted a financial settlement to a woman after she filed a sexual harassment complaint against Herman Cain in 1999.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/191939-restaurant-association-confirms-confirms-settlement-against-cain
28. ballantine says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:45 pm  ballantine(Quote)

    joyeagle: Wow, “Scientist”!! No evidence needed for you–just anonymous tips, innuendo and allegations is good enough for you … and the black man is guilty.“Settlements” were severance packages … not from Cain but from NRA. It is rather naive to assume settlements infer guilt.

    How stupid. Paying severance in exchange for not suing and keeping the allegations confiential is a typical legal settlement in these disputes. Duh!!! It is so dishonest of Cain to try to play semantics to pretend there is a difference between and “agreement” to not sue his employer in exchange for payments and a “settlement” or to try to label the settlement payments as “severance” and deny that they are settlement payments. Does he really think we are idiots? The non-wingnut republican blogs are full of comments on how dishonest Cain has been in his responses here. Is he still claiming that it was Forbes that accussed Perry of leaking this when the Forbes article cites Cain for such accusation? Is he still playing the race card thinking we don’t remember the treatment of Weiner and Clinton’s scandels getting round the clock coverage. Has Cain even settled on what his story is other than to make accusations against others with no evidence to back it up?
29. Majority Will says:

    November 8, 2011 at 2:50 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    GOP Comedy Special

    (excerpt) “While defending Herman Cain against accusations of sexual harassment, fellow Republican presidential contender Michele Bachmann criticized her rival for his changing positions on issues like abortion and his recent misstatements.

    Bachmann made her comments in an interview with conservative radio host Scott Hennen, which will be released in full tomorrow, and brushed off Cain’s sexual harassment controversy as a non-issue. But Bachmann did take the opportunity to go after the former pizza magnate for some perceived inconsistencies in his views.

    “There’s been 10 instances in the last month where he’s changed his positions on significant issues… On the issue of pro-life, he said government shouldn’t intervene to protect life and then he switched and said no they should.’ He wasn’t for the marriage amendment, and then he said he was. Then he said that he would allow the terrorists to go out of Guantanamo Bay. In other words, he would release the terrorists. Then he changed his mind and said no.’”

    (But this is my favorite part of the pot implying the kettle is incoherent and inconsistent . .)

    “This is the leader of the free world we’re talking about… We’re in very dangerous times when it comes to our national security and very dangerous times economically. We need to know that our president of the United States is going to go in there and do bold things and know what they’re talking about and be consistent.”

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! That’s just precious coming from Bachmann!

    (http://www.mediaite.com/online/bachmann-goes-after-cain-for-flip-flops-we-need-president-to-be-consistent/)

    ‘If we took away the minimum wage — if conceivably it was gone — we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.” – Michele Bachmann
30. Keith says:

    November 8, 2011 at 3:49 pm  Keith(Quote)

    John Woodman: My point is that prejudice is not an “abnormal” human condition. On the contrary, prejudices are quite normal for human beings.

    On the contrary, prejudice is a learned behaviour.

    source

    As to the root cause of prejudice and discrimination there appears to be no clear acceptance of any theory of causation. Scholars do agree, however, that prejudice and discrimination are not universals as something humans are inherently born with. There is ample evidence that prejudice and discrimination are social constructions. If indeed prejudice and discrimination are inherent in the human condition, we would not be able to account for intermarriage and assimilation among highly differentiated human groups. There is, moreover, considerable evidence that prejudice is absent in young children (e.g. Allport, 1954).

    Although there is no wide agreement as to the “cause” of prejudice and discrimination, there is a consensus that they constitute a learned behavior. The internalization of prejudice starts with parents and, later, teachers–the groups primary in the formation of attitudes within children. The media and social institutions solidify prejudicial attitudes, giving them social legitimacy. In a sense, it is incorrect to speak of “eradicating” prejudice, since prejudice is learned.
31. Scientist says:

    November 8, 2011 at 3:51 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: “Settlements” were severance packages … not from Cain but from NRA. It is rather naive to assume settlements infer guilt.

    A year’s salary is not a normal severance package. Check your company’s policies. Yes NRA paid it, Cain was an employee and the liability is with the employer.

    One accusation, I might say who knows. Two, I start to get suspicious. Four is a serial abuser.

    And before you give me Bill Clinton, all that came out during the campaign was consensual affairs. If 4 accusations of harassment (one being actual sexual assault), 2 where settlements had been paid, had surfaced during the campaign, Clinton would never have been President.

    joyeagle: She shares an apartment complex with David Axelrod … coincidence?

    You don’t honestly think Obama leaked the story? When every poll shows him crushing Cain and in a tight race with Romney? Even Cain says it’s Perry. I might say Romney, but Obama has nothing to gain.

    Now, think about this, Mr. joyeagle. By your OWN ADMISSION, you were totally bamboozled by the birthers. Consider the distinct possibility that you are not very good at detecting b.s. and that your infatuation with Cain is just as foolish as your infatuation with birtherism.
32. joyeagle says:

    November 8, 2011 at 4:22 pm  joyeagle(Quote)

    Yes, you do have that on me … prior admission to error. Not you.
    I may be wrong. I don’t know for sure.
    But I do know that the left (Biden specifically) is more than eager for a public lynching of a conservative black man on trumped up charges with an Anita Hill. I guess what they learned from that experience is one liar is not enough, this time pile on false allegations–it worked against Jesus too–he had more than one accuser.
    I don’t think Obama “leaked” this story. I do think he is scared to run against Cain. Polls don’t show anything against lesser knowns at this point. He is scared to run against a man who worked for success. He is scared to run against Cain. I don’t doubt that Axelrod would devise a plan to help out a desperate woman who would help him out with false allegations–just like they got Anita Hill.

    Scientist: A year’s salary is not a normal severance package.Check your company’s policies. Yes NRA paid it, Cain was an employee and the liability is with the employer …
33. Scientist says:

    November 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: But I do know that the left (Biden specifically) is more than eager for a public lynching of a conservative black man on trumped up charges with an Anita Hill.

    What evidence do you have that Anita Hill was lying? I don’t know whether she was or wasn’t, but what evidence is there that her charges were “trumped up”?

    Here is what I know-in 20 years on the bench Clarence Thomas has asked virtually no questions in oral arguments. That is in contrast to every other Justice who has ever served in that capacity. His qualifications for the court were probably the thinnest of any Justice in modern times.
34. sactosintolerant says:

    November 8, 2011 at 4:40 pm  sactosintolerant(Quote)

    Can someone please direct me to the repository containing the passport records, kindergarten records, school records, college records, medical records, adoption records, marriage license(s), divorce document(s),State Bar Association records, legislative records/schedules, and of course the long-form Certificate of Live Birth for the Republican presidential candidates?
35. joyeagle says:

    November 8, 2011 at 4:50 pm  joyeagle(Quote)

    Read his book. It would do you good.
    There were too many holes in her case–it was thrown out by the FBI the day after it surfaced.
    I won’t argue her case with you here though–I’m afraid it would be like trying to convince a birther that Obama was born in America.

    Scientist: What evidence do you have that Anita Hill was lying?I don’t know whether she was or wasn’t, but what evidence is there that her charges were “trumped up”?

    Here is what I know-in 20 years on the bench Clarence Thomas has asked virtually no questions in oral arguments.That is in contrast to every other Justice who has ever served in that capacity.His qualifications for the court were probably the thinnest of any Justice in modern times.
36. Scientist says:

    November 8, 2011 at 5:01 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: Read his book. It would do you good.There were too many holes in her case–it was thrown out by the FBI the day after it surfaced.I won’t argue her case with you here though–I’m afraid it would be like trying to convince a birther that Obama was born in America.

    Did you read her book?

    The FBI? The actions Thomas was accused of were a civil, not a criminal matter, so there was nothing for the FBI to get involved with. The bottom line with Thomas is, you don’t know and I don’t know what happened, so to make a categorical statement that Hill lied, as you did, simply indicates that you learned nothing from your dalliance with birtherism.

    With Cain, his employer paid cash money twice; that is a simple fact. And no one gets 1 year’s salary as severance unless you were 30 years on the job and none of these women would have been 30 years on the job in 1999 unless they started when they were 10. Anyway, I don’t need to believe them to know the 9-9-9 plan is a joke, I can read that myself.

    Check Intrade, Cain is tanking. Gingrich is the new hero; get with the program.
37. ballantine says:

    November 8, 2011 at 5:02 pm  ballantine(Quote)

    There are just as many people who thought Thomas was lying as Anita Hill. The hearing was completely one-side as Hill was grilled and Thomas was not. Of course, the people on the right never questioned Clinton’s accusers and now have called Cain’s accuser every name in the book even though Cain himself has clearly been dishonest in his entire response to this. Just plain politics. Who s Cain going to lash out at next without proof? He is looking like a pretty small man at the moment.
38. sfjeff says:

    November 8, 2011 at 5:23 pm  sfjeff(Quote)

    joyeagle: Just finished Clarence Thomas’ book, My Grandfather’s Son, and watching the hatchet job on Herman Cain … Conservatives certainly don’t own the market on lies and prejudice.

    I don’t know about everyone else but I am just waiting and see about Cain. Doesn’t really affect me directly- not as if I would be able to vote for him in the primary.

    We don’t have all of the information. We don’t know who is telling the truth and who is not.

    However, I think Cain is handling the controversy very badly. He had 10 days notice to prepare for the initial release, and he was not prepared. How he has handled the issue at this point is more of an issue to me than the charges.

    At this point, I am not judging him- and unlike yourself- I am not judging his accusers.

    I would like to see both sides released from any restrictions on telling their stories.
39. Daniel says:

    November 8, 2011 at 6:49 pm  Daniel(Quote)

    Scientist: Check Intrade, Cain is tanking. Gingrich is the new hero;

    This week lol
40. Tarrant says:

    November 8, 2011 at 7:07 pm  Tarrant(Quote)

    There is no such thing as a year’s “severance” after a short time employed, much less one that requires one to sign a legal document agreeing not to talk about why one got such a large severance package.

    To claim it was “Just severance” when even the employer at the time sas it wasn’t is disingenuous.

    Furthermore, employers aren’t in the business of paying out settlements “Just because”. Yes, it isn’t uncommon to pay out a settlement rather than go to trial, even if an organization believes it can reasonably win. But they don’t generally if there’s zero possibility that the claimed incident took place – there’s generally a “Well, it could have happened, easier to make it go away.” furthermore it happened more than once, which is a sign.

    That said I don’t know what happened – all I know is he signed the form. Nobody and nothing forced him to sign an agreement that says he acknowledges they made an accusation, he admits no guilt, but he understands they’re being paid and they both agree not to tlk about it. He could have said “No way. I did nothing wrong.” he might have lots his job but he could stand up and say right now “they told me to sign something and I said no, I was innocent.” I don’t know what happened between Thomas and Hill but Thomas maintained innocence the entire time. For Better or worse that matters. It’s like pleading guilty (I know he admitted no guilt in the settlement but bear with me). There are times when people are convicted of a crime and they maintain their innocence, and sometimes on appeal or later on they are exonerated. But if you plead guilty, even if you insist you didn’t do it, courts generally don’t care if you can prove you were miles away at the time. He signed the form, so people are going to ask, fair or no.
41. Lucas D. Smith says:

    November 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm  Lucas D. Smith(Quote)

    Hello friends!

    I have published two (2) new and very informative and significant blog reports at my WOBIK Blog.

    “1880′s. El Banco De La Compania De Credito De Puerto Plata. República Dominicana.”

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    “Stanely Ann Dunham in Kenya. Smallpox, vaccinations and inoculations.”

    http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/stanely-ann-dunham-in-kenya-smallpox-vaccinations-and-inoculations/

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    Please read, comment and share. Thanks!

    Lucas D. Smith
    319-804-0440
42. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    November 8, 2011 at 9:42 pm  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    Perhaps you should consider rewriting it.

    Lucas D. Smith: PS- Its long and windy and you might want to grab a snack before you start reading. And pay close attention to the closing paragraphs of the blog report!
43. G says:

    November 8, 2011 at 10:10 pm  G(Quote)

    My position on these issues is the same as yours.

    sfjeff: I don’t know about everyone else but I am just waiting and see about Cain. Doesn’t really affect me directly- not as if I would be able to vote for him in the primary.
    We don’t have all of the information. We don’t know who is telling the truth and who is not.
    However, I think Cain is handling the controversy very badly. He had 10 days notice to prepare for the initial release, and he was not prepared. How he has handled the issue at this point is more of an issue to me than the charges.
    At this point, I am not judging him- and unlike yourself- I am not judging his accusers.
    I would like to see both sides released from any restrictions on telling their stories.
44. John Woodman says:

    November 9, 2011 at 12:34 am  John Woodman(Quote)

    Keith: On the contrary, prejudice is a learned behaviour.

    Keith, I’m not talking necessarily about racial prejudice. I’m talking about the natural tendency of human beings to possess prejudices, of many kinds. I would argue that it’s quite normal behavior for human beings to divide themselves into groups, and to naturally favor those whom they consider a part of their group, and to look with suspicion on those who aren’t a part of their group.

    That’s perfectly normal, and in fact it carries with it a significant survival benefit. Trusting strangers isn’t necessarily a good idea.

    Also, just because a behavior is learned doesn’t mean it’s not normal. Walking, eating, watching the evening news, and looking for evidence and coming to a conclusion based on the evidence are all learned behaviors as well; and they are also all part of the fairly wide range of normal human behavior.
45. obsolete says:

    November 9, 2011 at 2:04 am  obsolete(Quote)

    joyeagle: I don’t doubt that Axelrod would devise a plan to help out a desperate woman who would help him out with false allegations

    So you believe that the plot to get Cain went back many years, and they trumped up these charges in the 1990’s because they knew he would run for President one day?
    Listen to how crazy that sounds- Almost as crazy as something else you believed- a teen mother traveling to Kenya alone in 1960 to give birth and then sneak her son back into the country so he could become the first African-American President 50 years later.

    Read David Brock’s book “Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative”. He details the smear job he ran on Anita Hill.
    Your filters are all askew- You believe the guilty (Cain & Thomas) and disbelieve the innocent & victims (Hill, Obama, the women Cain had to settle with).
46. obsolete says:

    November 9, 2011 at 2:05 am  obsolete(Quote)

    PS- There is more coming on Cain. I wonder what will push you to disavow him?
47. Keith says:

    November 9, 2011 at 3:53 am  Keith(Quote)

    John Woodman: Trusting strangers isn’t necessarily a good idea.

    Most ‘primitive’ cultures positively welcome strangers. Strangers bring new ideas, products, and genes. All important survival benefits.

    Protecting the local tribes resources against incursions by neighbors is not prejudice, it is an important survival benefit.

    Rejection of ‘the other’ simply because they are not ‘one of us’ is prejudice. Prejudice that is learned when taught by those who want to use that fear to control those under their thrall.
48. Northland10 says:

    November 9, 2011 at 7:41 am  Northland10(Quote)

    sfjeff: I don’t know about everyone else but I am just waiting and see about Cain. Doesn’t really affect me directly- not as if I would be able to vote for him in the primary.

    We don’t have all of the information. We don’t know who is telling the truth and who is not.

    However, I think Cain is handling the controversy very badly. He had 10 days notice to prepare for the initial release, and he was not prepared. How he has handled the issue at this point is more of an issue to me than the charges.

    At this point, I am not judging him- and unlike yourself- I am not judging his accusers.

    I too am playing wait and see. In terms of this issue, it is his handling that concerns me. If he knew there was potential issues that would come out, his campaign should have already prepared a response that would best explain the situation (if such was possible). In political campaigns, you have to expect such occurrences. The damage this does to the campaign is not only from the actual issue but it raises questions on how he would react to the unexpected or unpleasant that will happen while he would be in office. During campaigns, voters are not just looking at the stated issues but the candidates “temperament” for office. When adversity arises, are they still able to remain “presidential,” while still responding in the necessary way. Granted, it is a subjective qualification, but it exists.

    It is important to remember, it is not always the act that gets people in trouble but their handling of the aftermath. It was not a third-rate break-in that downed Nixon but how he handled the situation.
49. joyeagle says:

    November 9, 2011 at 10:06 am  joyeagle(Quote)

    “You believed- a teen mother traveling to Kenya alone in 1960 to give birth and then sneak her son back into the country so he could become the first African-American President 50 years later.”
    I never believed anything of the sort … but how clever of you to assign those beliefs to me. I’m glad you have no filters.
    Just like I don’t believe anyone trumped up these charges in the 1990s to get him in case he runs for president one day. Another strawman argument.
    The only known lady who made charges in the 90s has a history of charges like these to get special priveleges at work. Did the same thing same thing at her next job to get the privelege to work from home, based on the internet joke about men are like computers being forwarded to her.
    No, Bialek, Axelrod’s apartment buddy, didn’t make any allegations until last week.
    You believe Hill, I believe Thomas. Your opinion is no better than mine. There were many holes and inconsistencies in Hill’s stories, not the least of which is following a boss from job to job that you allege is harassing you–and continuing to call him, long afterwards.
    You’ve got filters and believe what you are inclined to want to believe. Good luck to you.

    obsolete: So you believe that the plot to get Cain went back many years, and they trumped up these charges in the 1990′s because they knew he would run for President one day?
    Listen to how crazy that sounds- Almost as crazy as something else you believed- a teen mother traveling to Kenya alone in 1960 to give birth and then sneak her son back into the country so he could become the first African-American President 50 years later.

    Read David Brock’s book “Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative”. He details the smear job he ran on Anita Hill.
    Your filters are all askew- You believe the guilty (Cain & Thomas) and disbelieve the innocent & victims (Hill, Obama, the women Cain had to settle with).
50. Scientist says:

    November 9, 2011 at 10:18 am  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: I never believed anything of the sort …

    So when you said you were a birther and believed Obama was not born in the US, which exact story did you believe?

    joyeagle: I’m glad you have no filters.

    joyeagle: You’ve got filters

    Which is it?
51. Scientist says:

    November 9, 2011 at 10:25 am  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: You believe Hill, I believe Thomas. Your opinion is no better than mine

    For the record, I wasn’t there. It’s possible that they are both recounting incidents as they saw them. IMO Thomas’s qualifications for the Supreme Court, regardless of any sexual harassment allegations, were exceedingly weak and his tenure on the Court has not contradicted that. And Cain’s qualifications for the presidency are exceedingly weak, given his poorly thought through tax plan and deliberate ignorance on foreign policy.

    If success in the business world made one a great national leader, then Silvio Berlusconi, who was a far more successful businessman than Cain, would be the best leader in the world and Italy the best-run country. He and Cain do seem to have similar attitudes towards women and both love pizza.
52. Lupin says:

    November 9, 2011 at 11:40 am  Lupin(Quote)

    Congratulations on the more enlightened sections of your electorate for having soundly rejected union-busting, voter suppression, anti-birth control measures, and recalled Arizona State Senator Russell Pearce. Bravo!
53. aarrgghh says:

    November 9, 2011 at 11:45 am  aarrgghh(Quote)

    sfjeff: I think Cain is handling the controversy very badly. He had 10 days notice to prepare for the initial release, and he was not prepared.

    Northland10: In terms of this issue, it is his handling that concerns me.If he knew there was potential issues that would come out, his campaign should have already prepared a response that would best explain the situation (if such was possible).In political campaigns, you have to expect such occurrences.The damage this does to the campaign is not only from the actual issue but it raises questions on how he would react to the unexpected or unpleasant that will happen while he would be in office.During campaigns, voters are not just looking at the stated issues but the candidates “temperament” for office.When adversity arises, are they still able to remain “presidential,” while still responding in the necessary way.Granted, it is a subjective qualification, but it exists.

    very very true. cain’s ability to quickly defuse a crisis (especially one he had ten days to prepare for) while remaining levelheaded and “above the fray” is what’s being judged. on this measure he is failing.

    his blanket denials only prolong the crisis because they invite refutation, thereby breathing life into another round of issues for the next news cycle and forcing him to revise his story. his ferocious attacks on his accusers makes him look petty and vindictive. having his lawyer open his own press conference makes him look not in control and makes him look like a crook.

    that may well be what his staunchest supporters want to see and hear but he won’t be winning any new ones with this strategy.

    last week sean hannity asked (paraphrased) “how much longer can this go on? are there really any questions left to ask?” his guest replied “when [herman cain] tells the truth, this story is over.” hannity didn’t give that one time to sink in, but it illustrates this point: when cain’s story finally gibes with all the facts (and no new facts contradict him), the feeding frenzy will be over. the only story left will be how badly he handled it.
54. El Diablo Negro says:

    November 9, 2011 at 12:13 pm  El Diablo Negro(Quote)

    Get ready for the government (Illuminati?) takeover in approximately 2 hours. I have my guns-n-beer stash in my bunker and I’m ready for bizness.

    /sarcasm
55. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    November 9, 2011 at 12:39 pm  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    I think that if you study political history, you will begin to see it as very “American”.

    John Woodman: And I’ll also confess that I’m still hoping it’s NOT a “new norm” for conservatives to use lies to promote their agenda. Although lies generally seem to be pretty widespread in our society. Look at the high numbers of students who cheat on their schoolwork. Look at the high number of people who lie on resumes. Frankly, it does still seem a bit foreign to me.
56. sfjeff says:

    November 9, 2011 at 12:55 pm  sfjeff(Quote)

    On a somewhat related note- does anyone else have a problem with how women are treated in these political scandals?

    Think about how Birthers have treated Obama’s mother- and the vile things they have said about her.

    Think about the current accusers of Cain- the attempt to smear them and negatively label them.

    Think about Anita Hill, and how the right maligned her.

    And its not only right. What about Clinton’s accusers? The left pilloried them also.

    There sure seems to be a lot of ‘blame the victim’- and early out of the gate too.

    I know alot of this is spin. But alot of it is that whole thing of the difference between women ‘sluts’ and men as ‘studs’- for the same behaviour.

    Look- I would really prefer that there be no substance to the charges against Cain- I would prefer that a national candidate for President be untainted by scandal. But like Edwards, we really don’t know what these politicians have done in the past.

    And it is unfair to assume that anyone claiming sexual abuse or sexual harrasment must be wrong or must be lieing, just because they are accusing your candidate. Any such claims must be considered thoughtfully.

    If my daughter or wife came to me with such a story, I would hope that the police and everyone concerned would take her accusations seriously and investigate them without prejudice.

    In the end, it may simply be a case of one persons word against another- there may be no stained dress or baby to test the DNA of- in that case we will never know the truth. And how do we then decide? I think this is the hardest situation to be fair and impartial about.
57. G says:

    November 9, 2011 at 3:09 pm  G(Quote)

    Good points and wise words about why we should all be cautious about leaping to conclusions. Allegations alone are enough to raise suspicions, but if they can’t be decisively proven…then we should at least try to be hesitant about casting judgement.

    sfjeff: In the end, it may simply be a case of one persons word against another- there may be no stained dress or baby to test the DNA of- in that case we will never know the truth. And how do we then decide? I think this is the hardest situation to be fair and impartial about.
58. joyeagle says:

    November 10, 2011 at 5:33 pm  joyeagle(Quote)

    Great insight here in this article:

    Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.

    Suspicions had already fallen on Sheila O’Grady, who is close with David Axelrod and went straight from being former Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley’s chief of staff to president of the Illinois Restaurant Association (IRA), as being the person who dug up Herman Cain’s personnel records from the National Restaurant Association (NRA).

    The Daley-controlled IRA works hand-in-glove with the NRA. And strangely enough, Cain’s short, three-year tenure at the NRA is evidently the only period in his decades-long career during which he’s alleged to have been a sexual predator.

    After O’Grady’s name surfaced in connection with the miraculous appearance of Cain’s personnel files from the NRA, she issued a Clintonesque denial of any involvement in producing them — by vigorously denying that she knew Cain when he was at the NRA. (Duh.)

    And now, after a week of conservative eye-rolling over unspecified, anonymous accusations against Cain, we’ve suddenly got very specific sexual assault allegations from an all-new accuser out of … Chicago.

    Herman Cain has never lived in Chicago. But you know who has? David Axelrod! And guess who lived in Axelrod’s very building? Right again: Cain’s latest accuser, Sharon Bialek.

    Bialek’s accusations were certainly specific. But they also demonstrated why anonymous accusations are worthless.

    Within 24 hours of Bialek’s press conference, friends and acquaintances of hers stepped forward to say that she’s a “gold-digger,” that she was constantly in financial trouble — having filed for personal bankruptcy twice — and, of course, that she had lived in Axelrod’s apartment building at 505 North Lake Shore Drive, where, she admits, she knew the man The New York Times calls Obama’s “hired muscle.”

    Throw in some federal tax evasion, and she’s Obama’s next Cabinet pick.

    The reason all this is relevant is that both Axelrod and Daley have a history of smearing political opponents by digging up claims of sexual misconduct against them.

    John Brooks, Chicago’s former fire commissioner, filed a lawsuit against Daley six months ago claiming Daley threatened to smear him with sexual harassment accusations if Brooks didn’t resign. He resigned — and the sexual harassment allegations were later found to be completely false.

    Meanwhile, as extensively detailed in my book Guilty: Liberal ‘Victims’ and Their Assault on America, the only reason Obama became a U.S. senator — allowing him to run for president — is that David Axelrod pulled sealed divorce records out of a hat, first, against Obama’s Democratic primary opponent, and then against Obama’s Republican opponent.

    One month before the 2004 Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate, Obama was way down in the polls, about to lose to Blair Hull, a multimillionaire securities trader.

    But then The Chicago Tribune — where Axelrod used to work — began publishing claims that Hull’s second ex-wife, Brenda Sexton, had sought an order of protection against him during their 1998 divorce proceedings.

    From then until Election Day, Hull was embroiled in fighting the allegation that he was a “wife beater.” He and his ex-wife eventually agreed to release their sealed divorce records. His first ex-wife, daughters and nanny defended him at a press conference, swearing he was never violent. During a Democratic debate, Hull was forced to explain that his wife kicked him and he had merely kicked her back.

    Hull’s substantial lead just a month before the primary collapsed with the nonstop media attention to his divorce records. Obama sailed to the front of the pack and won the primary. Hull finished third with 10 percent of the vote.

    Luckily for Axelrod, Obama’s opponent in the general election had also been divorced.

    The Republican nominee was Jack Ryan, a graduate of Dartmouth and Harvard law and business schools, who had left his lucrative partnership at Goldman Sachs​ to teach at an inner-city school on the South Side of Chicago.

    But in a child custody dispute some years earlier, Ryan’s ex-wife, Hollywood sex kitten Jeri Lynn Ryan​, had alleged that, while the couple was married, Jack had taken her to swingers clubs in Paris and New York.

    Jack Ryan adamantly denied the allegations. In the interest of protecting their son, he also requested that the records be put permanently under seal.

    Axelrod’s courthouse moles obtained the “sealed” records and, in no time, they were in the hands of every political operative in Chicago. Knowing perfectly well what was in the records, Chicago Tribune attorneys flew to California and requested that the court officially “unseal” them — over the objections of both Jack and Jeri Ryan​.

    Your honor, who knows what could be in these records!

    A California judge ordered them unsealed, which allowed newspapers to publish the salacious allegations, and four days later, Ryan dropped out of the race under pressure from idiot Republicans (who should be tracked down and shot).

    With a last-minute replacement of Alan Keyes as Obama’s Republican opponent, Obama was able to set an all-time record in an Illinois Senate election, winning with a 43 percent margin.

    And that’s how Obama became a senator four years after losing a congressional race to Bobby Rush​. (In a disastrous turn of events, Rush was not divorced.)

    Axelrod destroyed the only two men who stood between Obama and the Senate with illicitly obtained, lurid allegations from their pasts.

    In 2007, long after Obama was safely ensconced in the U.S. Senate, The New York Times reported: “The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece (on Hull’s sealed divorce records) later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had ‘worked aggressively behind the scenes’ to push the story.”

    Some had suggested, the Times article continued, that Axelrod had “an even more significant role — that he leaked the initial story.”

    This time, Obama’s little helpers have not only thrown a bomb into the Republican primary, but are hoping to destroy the man who deprives the Democrats of their only argument in 2012: If you oppose Obama, you must be a racist.
59. Daniel says:

    November 10, 2011 at 5:36 pm  Daniel(Quote)

    joyeagle: Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.

    Not really surprising at all. If you’re going to screw around, you do it where you’re not known, not where you live and work.

    The rest of your idle speculation isn’t really worth commenting on.
60. Scientist says:

    November 10, 2011 at 6:30 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    joyeagle: Great insight here in this article:

    If one feels compelled to cut and paste a nonsense article, it is customary to make the original source clear.

    I used to think you only lacked common sense, but I was wrong. You also lack class.
61. Keith says:

    November 10, 2011 at 7:18 pm  Keith(Quote)

    joyeagle: Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    He was president or something of the National Restaurant Association wasn’t he?

    National Restaurant Association Convention OfficeNational Restaurant Association Convention Office
    150 N. Michigan Avenue, Suite 2000
    Chicago, IL 60601
    Ph: (312) 853-2525
    Fax: (312) 853-2548
    http://www.restaurant.org/show

    National Restaurant Association Educational FoundationNational Restaurant Association Educational Foundation
    175 West Jackson Boulevard, Suite 1500
    Chicago, Illinois 60604-2702
    Ph: (800) 765-2122
    http://www.nraef.org

    Stupid troll is stupid.
62. katahdin says:

    November 10, 2011 at 7:42 pm  katahdin(Quote)

    Jack Ryan was 20 points behind Barack Obama in the polls when Ryan’s sex scandal became public. Obama would have beaten Ryan in any case. Of course Ryan would have done better than Alan Keyes, but then I could beat Alan Keyes in an election, simply by virtue of the fact that I’m not crazy.
    Kind of puts a hole in your theory, doesn’t it?

    joyeagle:
    Great insight here in this article:

    Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.

    Suspicions had already fallen on Sheila O’Grady, who is close with David Axelrod and went straight from being former Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley’s chief of staff to president of the Illinois Restaurant Association (IRA), as being the person who dug up Herman Cain’s personnel records from the National Restaurant Association (NRA).

    The Daley-controlled IRA works hand-in-glove with the NRA. And strangely enough, Cain’s short, three-year tenure at the NRA is evidently the only period in his decades-long career during which he’s alleged to have been a sexual predator.

    After O’Grady’s name surfaced in connection with the miraculous appearance of Cain’s personnel files from the NRA, she issued a Clintonesque denial of any involvement in producing them — by vigorously denying that she knew Cain when he was at the NRA. (Duh.)

    And now, after a week of conservative eye-rolling over unspecified, anonymous accusations against Cain, we’ve suddenly got very specific sexual assault allegations from an all-new accuser out of … Chicago.

    Herman Cain has never lived in Chicago. But you know who has? David Axelrod! And guess who lived in Axelrod’s very building? Right again: Cain’s latest accuser, Sharon Bialek.

    Bialek’s accusations were certainly specific. But they also demonstrated why anonymous accusations are worthless.

    Within 24 hours of Bialek’s press conference, friends and acquaintances of hers stepped forward to say that she’s a “gold-digger,” that she was constantly in financial trouble — having filed for personal bankruptcy twice — and, of course, that she had lived in Axelrod’s apartment building at 505 North Lake Shore Drive, where, she admits, she knew the man The New York Times calls Obama’s “hired muscle.”

    Throw in some federal tax evasion, and she’s Obama’s next Cabinet pick.

    The reason all this is relevant is that both Axelrod and Daley have a history of smearing political opponents by digging up claims of sexual misconduct against them.

    John Brooks, Chicago’s former fire commissioner, filed a lawsuit against Daley six months ago claiming Daley threatened to smear him with sexual harassment accusations if Brooks didn’t resign. He resigned — and the sexual harassment allegations were later found to be completely false.

    Meanwhile, as extensively detailed in my book Guilty: Liberal ‘Victims’ and Their Assault on America, the only reason Obama became a U.S. senator — allowing him to run for president — is that David Axelrod pulled sealed divorce records out of a hat, first, against Obama’s Democratic primary opponent, and then against Obama’s Republican opponent.

    One month before the 2004 Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate, Obama was way down in the polls, about to lose to Blair Hull, a multimillionaire securities trader.

    But then The Chicago Tribune — where Axelrod used to work — began publishing claims that Hull’s second ex-wife, Brenda Sexton, had sought an order of protection against him during their 1998 divorce proceedings.

    From then until Election Day, Hull was embroiled in fighting the allegation that he was a “wife beater.” He and his ex-wife eventually agreed to release their sealed divorce records. His first ex-wife, daughters and nanny defended him at a press conference, swearing he was never violent. During a Democratic debate, Hull was forced to explain that his wife kicked him and he had merely kicked her back.

    Hull’s substantial lead just a month before the primary collapsed with the nonstop media attention to his divorce records. Obama sailed to the front of the pack and won the primary. Hull finished third with 10 percent of the vote.

    Luckily for Axelrod, Obama’s opponent in the general election had also been divorced.

    The Republican nominee was Jack Ryan, a graduate of Dartmouth and Harvard law and business schools, who had left his lucrative partnership at Goldman Sachs​ to teach at an inner-city school on the South Side of Chicago.

    But in a child custody dispute some years earlier, Ryan’s ex-wife, Hollywood sex kitten Jeri Lynn Ryan​, had alleged that, while the couple was married, Jack had taken her to swingers clubs in Paris and New York.

    Jack Ryan adamantly denied the allegations. In the interest of protecting their son, he also requested that the records be put permanently under seal.

    Axelrod’s courthouse moles obtained the “sealed” records and, in no time, they were in the hands of every political operative in Chicago. Knowing perfectly well what was in the records, Chicago Tribune attorneys flew to California and requested that the court officially “unseal” them — over the objections of both Jack and Jeri Ryan​.

    Your honor, who knows what could be in these records!

    A California judge ordered them unsealed, which allowed newspapers to publish the salacious allegations, and four days later, Ryan dropped out of the race under pressure from idiot Republicans (who should be tracked down and shot).

    With a last-minute replacement of Alan Keyes as Obama’s Republican opponent, Obama was able to set an all-time record in an Illinois Senate election, winning with a 43 percent margin.

    And that’s how Obama became a senator four years after losing a congressional race to Bobby Rush​. (In a disastrous turn of events, Rush was not divorced.)

    Axelrod destroyed the only two men who stood between Obama and the Senate with illicitly obtained, lurid allegations from their pasts.

    In 2007, long after Obama was safely ensconced in the U.S. Senate, The New York Times reported: “The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece (on Hull’s sealed divorce records) later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had worked aggressively behind the scenes’ to push the story.”

    Some had suggested, the Times article continued, that Axelrod had “an even more significant role — that he leaked the initial story.”

    This time, Obama’s little helpers have not only thrown a bomb into the Republican primary, but are hoping to destroy the man who deprives the Democrats of their only argument in 2012: If you oppose Obama, you must be a racist.
63. Obsolete says:

    November 10, 2011 at 7:51 pm  Obsolete(Quote)

    The birther who now denies having been a birther is visibly upset over Cain being exposed for what he is. I think he is mad at himself for falling for another liar.
    Good luck to you!
64. Bran Mak Morn says:

    November 10, 2011 at 8:59 pm  Bran Mak Morn(Quote)

    Got to love WND.They have gone to full censorship mode. Will they sue themselves and have articles about their scrubbing of comments? I think not!
65. gorefan says:

    November 10, 2011 at 10:48 pm  gorefan(Quote)

    joyeagle: But they also demonstrated why anonymous accusations are worthless.

    It is absolutely not true that the accusations are anonymous. The names of three of the women are known, two publicly and the third by the NRA and Mr.Cain.

    What was great about the Cain’s press conference was that he decried those making baseless accusations and then made baseless accusations himself. He maybe irony deficient?
66. Keith says:

    November 10, 2011 at 11:29 pm  Keith(Quote)

    gorefan: What was great about the Cain’s press conference was that he decried those making baseless accusations and then made baseless accusations himself. He maybe irony deficient?

    This is the trouble with the English language and all that political correctness stuff: the first thing that came to mind when I read your post was something about a pot and a kettle.

    That just doesn’t work anymore, especially in this context. What other turn of phrase conveys the same meaning without being offensive? I’m stumped.
67. Lupin says:

    November 11, 2011 at 4:10 am  Lupin(Quote)

    I honestly haven’;t been following the Herman Cain sexual harassment “scandal”, for the most part because I don’t care, but — correct me if I’m wrong — isn’t it about previously settle cases? Or has there been new, heretofore unknown accusations?

    If the latter, I can see how the “he said she said” argument might apply. But if we’re talking about previous cases, already negotiated and settled, then I don’t understand joyeagle’s defense of Cain at all.

    These are FACTS, not accusations anymore.

    FWIW, both Bill Cinton and our own DSK have a terrible record in this area, but I think they were/are very competent executive. So IMHO this wouldn’t necessarily disqualify Cain. It’s a personal value judgment.

    His defense, however, has been rather pathetic, and I’m reminded of Sybil Fawlty telling Basil off not for groping the Australian tourist but for his lame and pathetic attempts at denying it.
68. Keith says:

    November 11, 2011 at 6:47 am  Keith(Quote)

    Lupin: FWIW, both Bill Cinton and our own DSK have a terrible record in this area, but I think they were/are very competent executive. So IMHO this wouldn’t necessarily disqualify Cain. It’s a personal value judgment.

    The Repugnants spent almost 8 years and eleventy bazillion dollars to find out Clinton liked to smoke specially treated cigars. They even produced a pornographic ‘report’ about it and violated the supposed secrecy of Grand Jury proceedings. After all that, Bill Clinton was one of the most popular Presidents in history.

    The word “hypocrisy” is barely adequate to describe a party hierarchy that could get behind a worse predator than the one they mercilessly hounded to the point of impeachment.
69. bovril says:

    November 11, 2011 at 6:51 am  bovril(Quote)

    The primary differnce between the Clinton-Lewinsky debacle and the Cain ones is one was tacky, stuoid yet consensual the others (if true) are about a direct abuse of authority and power.
70. Keith says:

    November 11, 2011 at 7:11 am  Keith(Quote)

    The six dumbest protests ever:

    2. Glenn Beck Fans Protest Themselves

    After Glenn Beck warned of paranoid, misinformed people and the danger they posed to America, Beck followers immediately started protesting themselves, with chants like, “We only have 10 percent of the information!” and, “We make sweeping, dangerous generalizations based on the ravings of a morning-zoo hack!” One protester overturned his own car and maced himself, yelling, “I’m incapable of discerning misinformation from truth!”
71. Bovril says:

    November 11, 2011 at 10:24 am  Bovril(Quote)

    The current headcount of Birfoons attending the latest epic fail of the “National Call for United Action” in DC….who will sweep up and frog march Da Ebil Usurperator out of the White House currently is…….wait for it…………..drum roll maestro

    75….. 😎

    Of course in Birfoon terms that equates to meeeeeelions and meeeeelions and being the silent majority etc etc.

    SInce when has a Birfoon EVER been silent..?
72. sfjeff says:

    November 11, 2011 at 11:52 am  sfjeff(Quote)

    “The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,”

    joyeagle: Great insight here in this article:Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.Suspicions had already fallen on Sheila O’Grady, who is close with David Axelrod and went straight from being former Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley’s chief of staff to president of the Illinois Restaurant Association (IRA), as being the person who dug up Herman Cain’s personnel records from the National Restaurant Association (NRA).The Daley-controlled IRA works hand-in-glove with the NRA. And strangely enough, Cain’s short, three-year tenure at the NRA is evidently the only period in his decades-long career during which he’s alleged to have been a sexual predator.After O’Grady’s name surfaced in connection with the miraculous appearance of Cain’s personnel files from the NRA, she issued a Clintonesque denial of any involvement in producing them — by vigorously denying that she knew Cain when he was at the NRA. (Duh.)And now, after a week of conservative eye-rolling over unspecified, anonymous accusations against Cain, we’ve suddenly got very specific sexual assault allegations from an all-new accuser out of … Chicago.Herman Cain has never lived in Chicago. But you know who has? David Axelrod! And guess who lived in Axelrod’s very building? Right again: Cain’s latest accuser, Sharon Bialek.Bialek’s accusations were certainly specific. But they also demonstrated why anonymous accusations are worthless.Within 24 hours of Bialek’s press conference, friends and acquaintances of hers stepped forward to say that she’s a “gold-digger,” that she was constantly in financial trouble — having filed for personal bankruptcy twice — and, of course, that she had lived in Axelrod’s apartment building at 505 North Lake Shore Drive, where, she admits, she knew the man The New York Times calls Obama’s “hired muscle.”Throw in some federal tax evasion, and she’s Obama’s next Cabinet pick.The reason all this is relevant is that both Axelrod and Daley have a history of smearing political opponents by digging up claims of sexual misconduct against them.John Brooks, Chicago’s former fire commissioner, filed a lawsuit against Daley six months ago claiming Daley threatened to smear him with sexual harassment accusations if Brooks didn’t resign. He resigned — and the sexual harassment allegations were later found to be completely false.Meanwhile, as extensively detailed in my book Guilty: Liberal ‘Victims’ and Their Assault on America, the only reason Obama became a U.S. senator — allowing him to run for president — is that David Axelrod pulled sealed divorce records out of a hat, first, against Obama’s Democratic primary opponent, and then against Obama’s Republican opponent.One month before the 2004 Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate, Obama was way down in the polls, about to lose to Blair Hull, a multimillionaire securities trader.But then The Chicago Tribune — where Axelrod used to work — began publishing claims that Hull’s second ex-wife, Brenda Sexton, had sought an order of protection against him during their 1998 divorce proceedings.From then until Election Day, Hull was embroiled in fighting the allegation that he was a “wife beater.” He and his ex-wife eventually agreed to release their sealed divorce records. His first ex-wife, daughters and nanny defended him at a press conference, swearing he was never violent. During a Democratic debate, Hull was forced to explain that his wife kicked him and he had merely kicked her back.Hull’s substantial lead just a month before the primary collapsed with the nonstop media attention to his divorce records. Obama sailed to the front of the pack and won the primary. Hull finished third with 10 percent of the vote.Luckily for Axelrod, Obama’s opponent in the general election had also been divorced.The Republican nominee was Jack Ryan, a graduate of Dartmouth and Harvard law and business schools, who had left his lucrative partnership at Goldman Sachs​ to teach at an inner-city school on the South Side of Chicago.But in a child custody dispute some years earlier, Ryan’s ex-wife, Hollywood sex kitten Jeri Lynn Ryan​, had alleged that, while the couple was married, Jack had taken her to swingers clubs in Paris and New York.Jack Ryan adamantly denied the allegations. In the interest of protecting their son, he also requested that the records be put permanently under seal.Axelrod’s courthouse moles obtained the “sealed” records and, in no time, they were in the hands of every political operative in Chicago. Knowing perfectly well what was in the records, Chicago Tribune attorneys flew to California and requested that the court officially “unseal” them — over the objections of both Jack and Jeri Ryan​.Your honor, who knows what could be in these records!A California judge ordered them unsealed, which allowed newspapers to publish the salacious allegations, and four days later, Ryan dropped out of the race under pressure from idiot Republicans (who should be tracked down and shot).With a last-minute replacement of Alan Keyes as Obama’s Republican opponent, Obama was able to set an all-time record in an Illinois Senate election, winning with a 43 percent margin.And that’s how Obama became a senator four years after losing a congressional race to Bobby Rush​. (In a disastrous turn of events, Rush was not divorced.)Axelrod destroyed the only two men who stood between Obama and the Senate with illicitly obtained, lurid allegations from their pasts.In 2007, long after Obama was safely ensconced in the U.S. Senate, The New York Times reported: “The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece (on Hull’s sealed divorce records) later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had worked aggressively behind the scenes’ to push the story.”Some had suggested, the Times article continued, that Axelrod had “an even more significant role — that he leaked the initial story.”This time, Obama’s little helpers have not only thrown a bomb into the Republican primary, but are hoping to destroy the man who deprives the Democrats of their only argument in 2012: If you oppose Obama, you must be a racist.
73. Lupin says:

    November 11, 2011 at 11:59 am  Lupin(Quote)

    Keith: The word “hypocrisy” is barely adequate to describe a party hierarchy that could get behind a worse predator than the one they mercilessly hounded to the point of impeachment.

    I couldn’t agree more!
74. Rickey says:

    November 11, 2011 at 3:23 pm  Rickey(Quote)

    Scientist: Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    Scientist: If one feels compelled to cut and paste a nonsense article, it is customary to make the original source clear.

    I used to think you only lacked common sense, but I was wrong.You also lack class.

    Joyeagle didn’t provide a source because it was written by serial liar Ann Coulter.

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=365973
75. Jamese777 says:

    November 11, 2011 at 5:28 pm  Jamese777(Quote)

    Bovril:
    The current headcount of Birfoons attending the latest epic fail of the “National Call for United Action” in DC….who will sweep up and frog march Da Ebil Usurperator out of the White House currently is…….wait for it…………..drum roll maestro

    75…..

    Of course in Birfoon terms that equates to meeeeeelions and meeeeelions and being the silent majority etc etc.

    SInce when has a Birfoon EVER been silent..?

    Where are you finding a reference to the numbers that showed up?
76. Keith says:

    November 11, 2011 at 5:37 pm  Keith(Quote)

    katahdin: Kind of puts a hole in your theory, doesn’t it?

    It isn’t really necessary to requote the entire stupid article. Thanks.
77. Majority Will says:

    November 11, 2011 at 5:42 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    The 1% are the very best destroyers of wealth the world has ever seen.

    by George Monbiot

    (excerpt) If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. The claims that the ultra-rich 1% make for themselves – that they are possessed of unique intelligence or creativity or drive – are examples of the self-attribution fallacy. This means crediting yourself with outcomes for which you weren’t responsible. Many of those who are rich today got there because they were able to capture certain jobs. This capture owes less to talent and intelligence than to a combination of the ruthless exploitation of others and accidents of birth, as such jobs are taken disproportionately by people born in certain places and into certain classes.

    The findings of the psychologist Daniel Kahneman, winner of a Nobel economics prize, are devastating to the beliefs that financial high-fliers entertain about themselves. He discovered that their apparent success is a cognitive illusion. For example, he studied the results achieved by 25 wealth advisers across eight years. He found that the consistency of their performance was zero. “The results resembled what you would expect from a dice-rolling contest, not a game of skill.” Those who received the biggest bonuses had simply got lucky.

    Such results have been widely replicated. They show that traders and fund managers throughout Wall Street receive their massive remuneration for doing no better than would a chimpanzee flipping a coin. When Kahneman tried to point this out, they blanked him. “The illusion of skill … is deeply ingrained in their culture.”

    So much for the financial sector and its super-educated analysts. As for other kinds of business, you tell me. Is your boss possessed of judgment, vision and management skills superior to those of anyone else in the firm, or did he or she get there through bluff, bullshit and bullying?

    The rest . . . http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/07/one-per-cent-wealth-destroyers
78. Keith says:

    November 11, 2011 at 5:47 pm  Keith(Quote)

    sfjeff: “The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,”

    joyeagle: Great insight here in this article:Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago

    As shown above, it is not necessary to quote the entire article to make your point.

    As to your point sfjeff, the Party nomination process is exactly that: 18 months of the candidates being tried in the court of public opinion.

    As to unfounded accusations, the accusations are not unfounded, they are, in fact, admitted by the National Restaurant Association which paid out compensation in settlement of the harassment claims..

    As to joyeagle’s cut and paste of Dr. Khate’s diatribe, the entire article is proved worthless by the complete and utter failure of the total bald-faced lie in that first sentence requoted above.

    Cain was head of the National Restaurant Association at the time the reported behaviors took place. Two of its three major subdivisions are headquartered in Chicago.

    I repeat from an earlier post:

    National Restaurant Association Convention Office
    150 N. Michigan Avenue, Suite 2000
    Chicago, IL 60601
    Ph: (312) 853-2525
    Fax: (312) 853-2548
    http://www.restaurant.org/show

    National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation
    175 West Jackson Boulevard, Suite 1500
    Chicago, Illinois 60604-2702
    Ph: (800) 765-2122
    http://www.nraef.org
79. Keith says:

    November 11, 2011 at 5:50 pm  Keith(Quote)

    My bad, not Dr. Khate.

    Ann Coulter.

    I apologize.
80. Head Researcher says:

    November 11, 2011 at 6:17 pm  Head Researcher(Quote)

    I just clobbered WITH LOGIC, the person who was here doing Shakespeare stuff, “were all thy children kindly and natural.” What I wonder for him is “Were all thy pickles in thine jar???”

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/cognitive-decompensation-when-vattel-birthers-pay-the-piper-a-case-study/

    The Head Researcher
81. G says:

    November 11, 2011 at 6:42 pm  G(Quote)

    Joyeagle,

    I thought you were going to work on trying to be better at being taken by bad information, simply because it says something that feeds your internal biases. I actually am sympathetic and want to be supportive of you and I’m not trying to bust your balls, just offer honest advice…and sometimes the truth is harsh. Maybe the best thing for you to help yourself is to remind yourself how often that the people letting you down and giving you bad information are from what you perceive as “your own side”…and then you can build up a natural skepticism to not just emotionally jump on “comfort food” gossip. You do yourself no good service by coming across to others as gullible, and only result in reinforcing stereotypes in others minds.

    Next time you hear some story like this, take a big pause and think of the broader picture and also do some research and then try to apply some logic to assess the situation before making the mistake of simply repeating unfounded stories. It only makes yourself look bad and associated with bad information and poor decision making.

    I mean let’s look at the political picture in terms of simple, stark logic.

    At this stage of the game, it makes very, very little political sense for Obama’s side to want to release information on any GOP candidates before their primary process is at least nearing a practically inevitable conclusion. Sure, do opposition research early, but it would only make good political sense to leak or run with such research once it matters in the general election contest. Why expose a weakness at this stage, when it would only serve to help that opponent’s competition win over them? It would be a much better strategy to hold onto such info and release it once a general campaign is in play and the GOP wouldn’t have any real fallback if their candidate becomes terminally weakened by it.

    No, what is happening now with the initial leaks…it is nearly certain to have been initiated by those supporting opposing competitors within the GOP itself, in order to try to stop his surge and momentum, in order for their candidate to have a stronger chance to “win” the Primary against him.

    This is pure speculation on my part, but my gut instinct suspects folks connected to the Karl Rove machine are the most likely origin. Karl Rove has been quite clearly supporting and pushing Romney for quite some time now…but trying to do it from a slight “distance” using several SuperPACs. The type and method of leak and timing of it seem straight out of his playbook. But I don’t have any proof, which is why I openly and clearly start out by telling you that I’m speculating from my gut and then give my rationale for doing so. I also offer that method of communicating honestly for you to try to learn to use yourself in the future. As I said, I spend the time to comment back to you, because seriously, I’m really trying to be helpful instead of just “bash”. Regards.

    joyeagle: Great insight here in this article:
    Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.
    So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.
82. gorefan says:

    November 11, 2011 at 11:11 pm  gorefan(Quote)

    G: This is pure speculation on my part, but my gut instinct suspects folks connected to the Karl Rove machine are the most likely origin.

    Why discount the possiblity that some one at the Natioanl Restaurant Association sent the info to Politico?
83. Arthur says:

    November 12, 2011 at 1:38 am  Arthur(Quote)

    Head Researcher:
    I just clobbered WITH LOGIC, the person who was here doing Shakespeare stuff, “were all thy children kindly and natural.”

    Head Researcher:

    Regarding Shakespeare’s use of “natural” . . . this is a term that appears frequently in his plays. Most often, it refers to a typical quality or disposition that was thought to normally inhabit an object or living thing. For example, a dog is thought to be loyal by nature, while an unnatural dog is one that turns on his master. In the passage you cite from “Henry V,” the Chorus refers to the fact that several native-born English noblemen, who should naturally be loyal to Henry, have been bribed by France and are plotting against their own king.

    O England! . . .
    What mightst thou do, that honour would thee do,
    Were all thy children kind and natural!
    But see thy fault! France hath in thee found out
    A nest of hollow bosoms, which he fills
    With treacherous crowns; and three corrupted men.

    In this passage, the Chorus uses “children” as a metaphor for “citizens,” and imagines how great England could be if only all Englishmen behaved in a natural fashion, that is, with unwavering loyalty to their motherland and sovereign. Unfortunately, three nobles have proven to be false-hearted (they have “hollow bosoms”), having been corrupted by “treacherous crowns” i.e., money coming from the French monarchy.
84. G says:

    November 12, 2011 at 4:50 am  G(Quote)

    Fair point. I’m not going to discount that possibiliity. As I said, I’m only speculating, as we simply don’t know. I just see more motive within the establishment wing of the GOP tent at this stage in leading up to the GOP primaries. …in order to cut his surge down and protect Romney as the establishment’s preferred candidate. Note: that scenario for motive doesn’t rule out someone from the National Restaurant Association. A lot of their membership are GOP voters…and if someone there either had an axe to grind with Cain or preferred Romney, they’d have access to leak it for those very purposes. But again, all just suspicion and pure speculation on my part.

    gorefan: Why discount the possiblity that some one at the Natioanl Restaurant Association sent the info to Politico?
85. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    November 12, 2011 at 8:56 am  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    That quotation is very “birther” in style, piling up “connections” without explaining the larger question, why would Axelrod do such a thing. Personally, I don’t have an opinion because there’s not enough information to form one. It doesn’t matter either because Cain is a joke as a possible president as evidenced by the his flagship 9-9-9 tax proposal.

    My interest in the topic centers on the role of confirmation bias in public decision making, whether it is Clarence Thomas, Bill Clinton, Herman Cain or O. J. Simpson. One might also ask whether the underlying premise, “all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago,” is literally true.

    joyeagle: Herman Cain​ has spent his life living and working all over the country — Indiana, Georgia, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington, D.C. — but never in Chicago.

    So it’s curious that all the sexual harassment allegations against Cain emanate from Chicago: home of the Daley machine and Obama consigliere David Axelrod​.
86. bovril says:

    November 12, 2011 at 8:58 am  bovril(Quote)

    James777,

    The numbers came from The Fogbow where a local poster got up at dark o’clock and went and observed for several hours. Final tally was circa 150 although apparently many were walk by, stay for a minute or two then bugger off. Hard core numbers appeared to be in the 40’s-50’s.

    Link to TFB

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6662&start=150#p305951

    Write up confirming the FAIL (although being a Birfoon it gets twisted) by No Neurons Nancy at Dr K(H)ates

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/getting-government-out-of-the-way/#comment-46608
87. Sef says:

    November 12, 2011 at 1:08 pm  Sef(Quote)

    On her website our favorite pseudoesq says she is “demanding” an emergency hearing with Fuddy. Wouldn’t it be fun if Fuddy responded that the hearing is scheduled in Honolulu at 9:00 AM Monday morning, thus making Orly fly out there just to hear the word she has heard so often: “denied”.

    OT has a habit of “demanding” things for which she has no right. She apparently doesn’t understand what the word means.
88. Majority Will says:

    November 12, 2011 at 4:10 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    gorefan: It is absolutely not true that the accusations are anonymous.The names of three of the women are known, two publicly and the third by the NRA and Mr.Cain.

    What was great about the Cain’s press conference was that he decried those makingbaseless accusations and then made baseless accusations himself.He maybe irony deficient?

    Evidently, Cain gets his information from the highest source.

    Cain: God told me to run for president

    (excerpt) “I prayed and prayed and prayed. I am a man of faith,” Cain told the Young Republican National Federation at the Westin Peachtree Plaza. “I had to do a lot of praying for this one, more praying than I have ever done before in my life. And when I finally realized that it was God saying that this is what I needed to do, I was like Moses: ‘You have got the wrong man, Lord. Are you sure?’ … Once I made the decision, I did not look back.”

    (source: http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/cain-god-told-me-1223972.html)

    If Cain was able, he might have had a better chance. 😛
89. G says:

    November 12, 2011 at 6:03 pm  G(Quote)

    LOL! As expected, yet another PUMA-level EPIC FAIL event for the Birthers!

    H/T to Ms. Daisy for her onsite reporting and pics from the event:

    http://crazyinternetpeople.blogspot.com/2011/11/veterans-day-in-washington-111111.html

    Per her report, the peak size swelled to around 150 at one point, but was very temporary…so that might have accounted for mere onlookers that simply moved on.

    It looks like the core size was 50-ish from both her reporting and any photos that have surfaced.

    For the effort that this event’s organizers put forth, such results were definitely a disappointing EPIC FAIL for them.

    They have been trying to push and get attention for over the past several months and who put out several lengthy “patriotic” powerpoint ads set to music in order to advertise it on the internet. They had a built in holiday full of veterans already assembled near that location to try to glom onto and build from. They tried to broaden their appeal in some of their ads to general “Tea Party” patriotism and Glen Beck-ish blather without much of the Birtherism blather.

    From their initial ads and posts, it is obvious that their initial delusional Birfer dreams for this was to get hundreds of thousands to show up to their main event and that they would also have significant numbers of people coming out in similar protests at state level government offices nationwide. Over the past few weeks, their increasingly desperate plea for people to show revealed that they weren’t having much success getting their keyboard commandos to show up…and there was an ever lowering of expectations and “hoped for” numbers.

    Up until the last days for the event, there was still thinking from their side that they would at least break into the low thousands… and still have nationwide gatherings in the other states… (none of which I’ve heard any report about so far – just the “impeach Obama” banner that several unrelated anti-Obama groups in San Diego managed to pay for and fly for awhile (see WND for reporting and picture)).

    So yeah, by all measure EPIC FAIL for their event and movement as a whole.

    bovril: James777,The numbers came from The Fogbow where a local poster got up at dark o’clock and went and observed for several hours. Final tally was circa 150 although apparently many were walk by, stay for a minute or two then bugger off. Hard core numbers appeared to be in the 40′s-50′s.Link to TFBhttp://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6662&start=150#p305951Write up confirming the FAIL (although being a Birfoon it gets twisted) by No Neurons Nancy at Dr K(H)ateshttp://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/getting-government-out-of-the-way/#comment-46608
90. G says:

    November 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm  G(Quote)

    LMAO! A very witty & clever play on words, indeed!

    Majority Will: If Cain was able, he might have had a better chance.
91. Majority Will says:

    November 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    G:
    LMAO!A very witty & clever play on words, indeed!

    😀

    I’m adamant he won’t make it to the eve of the nomination.
92. Majority Will says:

    November 12, 2011 at 7:40 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    We don’t need another fantasizing top executive who thinks he’s a divine prophet.

    “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.”
    – George W. Bush to a group of Amish he met with privately, July 9, 2004

    “People say, well, do you ever hear any other voices other than, like, a few people? Of course I do.”
    – George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2008

    George relied on the separation of common sense from his delusions of grandeur.
93. Scientist says:

    November 12, 2011 at 8:01 pm  Scientist(Quote)

    From Andy Borowitz:

    http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/11/08/berlusconi-steps-down-will-run-national-restaurant-association/
94. Jamese777 says:

    November 12, 2011 at 8:05 pm  Jamese777(Quote)

    bovril:
    James777,

    The numbers came from The Fogbow where a local poster got up at dark o’clock and went and observed for several hours. Final tally was circa 150 although apparently many were walk by, stay for a minute or two then bugger off. Hard core numbers appeared to be in the 40′s-50′s.

    Link to TFB

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6662&start=150#p305951

    Write up confirming the FAIL (although being a Birfoon it gets twisted) by No Neurons Nancy at Dr K(H)ates

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/getting-government-out-of-the-way/#comment-46608

    Thanks Bovrti, I found the posts from Ms.Daisy at Fogbow a short time after asking you for a source. I even watched some the video of the non-event.
    “A National Call for United Action” went unanswered!
95. Keith says:

    November 12, 2011 at 8:45 pm  Keith(Quote)

    Has the “Turning the Scale” site been compromised? Or has somebody maliciously reported it as an attack site?

    Google won’t let me go there, neither will my browser (Firefox 8).
96. Majority Will says:

    November 12, 2011 at 9:33 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

    Keith:
    Has the “Turning the Scale” site been compromised? Or has somebody maliciously reported it as an attack site?

    Google won’t let me go there, neither will my browser (Firefox 8).

    Good question. Bill’s last homepage FB post looks like it was 11/2.
97. welsh Dragon says:

    November 12, 2011 at 10:07 pm  welsh Dragon(Quote)

    Keith:
    Has the “Turning the Scale” site been compromised? Or has somebody maliciously reported it as an attack site?

    Google won’t let me go there, neither will my browser (Firefox 8).

    Yes Bill’s site has been compromised – I gather h
98. Welsh Dragon says:

    November 12, 2011 at 10:11 pm  Welsh Dragon(Quote)

    Oops – accidentally posted in mid sentance – I meant to say that I believe he’s working on a solution
99. Keith says:

    November 13, 2011 at 12:25 am  Keith(Quote)

    welsh Dragon: Yes Bill’s site has been compromised – I gather h

    Thanks. Musta upset the Gummit Chemtrail Innertubes StarChamber by revealing his funding source or sumpn.
100. Majority Will says:

     November 13, 2011 at 11:50 am  Majority Will(Quote)

     Are there any fright wing zealots calling Bachmann a communist?

     (excerpt) When asked how she would bring down the national debt, Bachmann seemed to argue that the U.S. should look to China.

     “If you look at China, they don’t have food stamps,” she said. “If you look at China, they’re in a very different – they save for their own retirement security…And China’s growing. And so what I would do is look at the programs that [Lyndon B. Johnson] gave us with The Great Society, and they’d be gone.”

     (source: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-bachmann-bias-20111113,0,914104.story)
101. Scientist says:

     November 13, 2011 at 3:49 pm  Scientist(Quote)

     Majority Will: “If you look at China, they don’t have food stamps

     It seems China is heading in the opposite direction from that in which Ms Bachmann wishes to take the US. In the lst 10 years, they have instituted many social wellfare programs, including pensions, unemployment insurance, worker’s comp and are moving to make these more comprehensive.

     Report: China to become a welfare state by 2049
     http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/02/content_10295173.htm
102. Northland10 says:

     November 13, 2011 at 7:27 pm  Northland10(Quote)

     Majority Will: “If you look at China, they don’t have food stamps,” she said. “If you look at China, they’re in a very different – they save for their own retirement security…

     She wants to bring our country the economic system of the communists, but as least she has found a way to pay for it. To make sure we can afford it, we will go back to the tax rates of the 1980s as an homage to her favorite economist, Ronald Reagan.

     “For my tax plan, I take a page out of one of my great economists that I admire, Ronald Reagan. And under my tax plan I want to adopt the Reagan tax plan. It brought the economic miracle of the 1980s. Why not go with what works? You can’t argue with success. I want to reinstitute the Reagan tax model from the 1980s.”

     I suppose, her plan would have the possibility of reducing the deficit since his tax rates were generally higher.

     http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/131789853.html#
103. Thinker says:

     November 13, 2011 at 10:04 pm  Thinker(Quote)

     Orly Taitz has posted on her blog a complaint she intends to file in NH to get Obama off the ballot. It’s mostly the same stuff she’s been excreting for years, except for this:

     “Research pointed to the fact, that one, Virginia Sunahara was born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961 and passed away the next day. Recently her surviving brother Dunken Sunahara demanded to see her long form birth certificate, but the department of Health denied the request, even though it came from a close relative. Department of Health provided Mr. Sunahara only with a computer generated short form birth certificate with a serial number, which was suspiciously out of sequence from all the other numbers issued to infants born August 4, 1961.”

     http://www. orlytaitzesq.com/?p=27620

     So, these despicable hatriots were able to get baby Sunahara’s family to get a copy of her COLB and found that Obama did not steal the serial number from her birth certificate. Thanks Orly. Keep up the good work!

     Unfortunately, Orly did not disclose Virginia’s serial number. Hmmm–I wonder what she is hiding??
104. Rickey says:

     November 13, 2011 at 11:21 pm  Rickey(Quote)

     Thinker:

     So, these despicable hatriots were able to get baby Sunahara’s family to get a copy of her COLB and found that Obama did not steal the serial number from her birth certificate. Thanks Orly. Keep up the good work!

     Unfortunately, Orly did not disclose Virginia’s serial number. Hmmm–I wonder what she is hiding??

     She is probably hiding the fact that Virginia’s serial number is higher than Obama’s, because it would support the notion that the birth records were batched in alphabetical order and then assigned serial numbers.

     Of course, six months ago butterdezillion was claiming that Hawaii DOH didn’t have a birth record for Virginia Sunahara.
105. gorefan says:

     November 13, 2011 at 11:36 pm  gorefan(Quote)

     Rickey: She is probably hiding the fact that Virginia’s serial number is higher than Obama’s,

     I have a feeling she is unaware of the information (Waidelich and Ah-Nee) that has come out on cert numbers.

     Here is my guess for Virginia’s number 10845.
106. gorefan says:

     November 13, 2011 at 11:43 pm  gorefan(Quote)

     Rickey: six months ago butterdezillion was claiming

     I posted Orly’s info to BD’s site, I’m interested in seeing her response. Earlier, she posted that she believes that the DOH gave Waidelich’s “real” number to VIrginia and gave Waidelich someone else’s number. I think she is getting ready for the eventuality that Virginia would have a number between President Obama and the Nordykes. And she can continue to claim the numbers are out of sequence and we need to see the microfilm.
107. Head Researcher says:

     November 14, 2011 at 2:35 am  Head Researcher(Quote)

     Et tu, Breckinridge??? I have just completed the latest exciting Internet Article which slams Leo Donofrio, his legal theory and the Justiagate stuff. Whew, this took a while. It might help you if you are arguing with Vattle Birthers:

     http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/the-most-unkindest-cut-of-all-et-tu-breckinridge/

     The Head Researcher
108. Rickey says:

     November 14, 2011 at 11:16 am  Rickey(Quote)

     Last night various birther sites began reporting that Larry Sinclair was mysteriously killed in a hit-and-run accident, which of course was all Obama’s doing to get Sinclair out of the way.

     http://www.people-in-the-news.com/2011/11/13/larry-sinclair-is-dead/

     However, the story turns out to be a hoax.

     http://www.larrysinclair.org/

     It is, however, an example of how birthers will run with anything which they believe makes Obama look bad. Why wait for verification?
109. bovril says:

     November 14, 2011 at 12:02 pm  bovril(Quote)

     Oh it’s even better than that….. 😎

     Hillbuz, which was the site that blew this up in words of utter hysteria, got this from a post in Freeperville.

     The Hillbuz site is now taking the stance that their stupidity is all Freeperville’s fault and how dare they post a hoax….It’s all Alinsky like apparently and Freeperville is implied as being a nest of Obots…….Ya simply can’t make this stuff up.
110. ASK Esq says:

     November 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm  ASK Esq(Quote)

     The birthers over at FR are all upset that Obama is making jokes at their expense once again. In Hawaii hosting a conference of world leaders, he offered to take them to see the hospital where he was born. Naturally, this has led to much whining, foot-stomping and general hateful invective.
111. Head Researcher says:

     November 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm  Head Researcher(Quote)

     bovril:
     Oh it’s even better than that…..

     Hillbuz, which was the site that blew this up in words of utter hysteria, got this from a postin Freeperville.

     The Hillbuz site is now taking the stance that their stupidity is all Freeperville’s fault and how dare they post a hoax….It’s all Alinsky like apparently and Freeperville is implied as being a nest of Obots…….Ya simply can’t make this stuff up.

     You know, I have wondered for a long time if some of the Vattle Birthers were really undercover Obots. Lots of times on threads here and there, the interaction between Obot and Vattle Birther had a choreographed feel to it, like it was a dance number or one of those Kung Fu fight thingies in the movies.

     I have been in a food fight at Free Republic with some Vattle Birthers over the last few days and I swear some of them sound like some of you Obots. Sooo, just be honest. Are some of you Obots really Vattle Birthers trying to make the other side just look TOTALLY stupid???

     The Head Researcher
112. ASK Esq says:

     November 14, 2011 at 5:01 pm  ASK Esq(Quote)

     Head Researcher: Sooo, just be honest. Are some of you Obots really Vattle Birthers trying to make the other side just look TOTALLY stupid???

     That would be redundant.
113. ASK Esq says:

     November 14, 2011 at 5:02 pm  ASK Esq(Quote)

     Rickey: Last night various birther sites began reporting that Larry Sinclair was mysteriously killed in a hit-and-run accident, which of course was all Obama’s doing to get Sinclair out of the way.http://www.people-in-the-news.com/2011/11/13/larry-sinclair-is-dead/However, the story turns out to be a hoax. http://www.larrysinclair.org/It is, however, an example of how birthers will run with anything which they believe makes Obama look bad. Why wait for verification?

     I’m going to need a more reliable source than Sinclair himself to refute this.
114. Joey says:

     November 14, 2011 at 5:28 pm  Joey(Quote)

     I’ve never met an intelligent birther. I’m guessing that there are some out there, but I’ve never met one or dialoged with one at any of the blogs where these issues are discussed.
     If there was an intelligent birther, I’m betting that at least one of the major conservative constitutional attorneys or law professors would have taken up the birther cause, pro bono like they do for every other conservative issue from abortion to deregulartion to eminant domain gun to rights.
     No conservative constitutional expert or scholar has taken up the birther cause because (in my humble opinon) birtherism is, by definition, ignorant.
115. sfjeff says:

     November 14, 2011 at 6:45 pm  sfjeff(Quote)

     There is Birther stupid, and there is Birther delusional/liars i.e. Vattelites.

     Not all Birthers are Vattelites, but all Vattelites have gone full Birther.
116. Randy says:

     November 14, 2011 at 8:53 pm  Randy(Quote)

     Head Researcher: . Are some of you Obots really Vattle Birthers trying to make the other side just look TOTALLY stupid???

     The Head Researcher

     Vattel birthers and birthers in general don’t need any help appearing stupid, it just comes natural.
117. Head Researcher says:

     November 16, 2011 at 3:03 am  Head Researcher(Quote)

     I just clobbered Mario Apuzzo, Esq. WITH LOGIC, on his Jo Ann Newman stuff.

     http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/la-bocca-della-falsita-the-mouth-of-falsehoods/

     The Head Researcher
118. Scientist says:

     November 16, 2011 at 2:22 pm  Scientist(Quote)

     Folks, I hate to say it, but this site has gotten rather boring. Remember the good old days when actual birthers would come here with their wacky theories about Kenyan births and their crazy interpretations of several centuries of law. But, in the last month or so, nada. Where are they? Where are the birthers of the good old days. Obama is back up in the polls as one Republican after another self-destructs and we can’t even get joyeagle here to defend Herman “Libya? What’s that?” Cain or Newt “the $1.6 M historian” Gingrich. What is the world coming to?
119. Daniel says:

     November 16, 2011 at 3:08 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     Scientist:
     Folks, I hate to say it, but this site has gotten rather boring.Remember the good old days when actual birthers would come here with their wacky theories about Kenyan births and their crazy interpretations of several centuries of law.But, in the last month or so, nada.Where are they?Where are the birthers of the good old days.Obama is back up in the polls as one Republican after another self-destructs and we can’t even get joyeagle here to defend Herman “Libya?What’s that?” Cain or Newt “the $1.6 M historian” Gingrich.What is the world coming to?

     I know. My greatest fear in life is that birthers will give up. What will I do for entertainment then?
120. Rickey says:

     November 16, 2011 at 3:22 pm  Rickey(Quote)

     Scientist:
     Folks, I hate to say it, but this site has gotten rather boring.Remember the good old days when actual birthers would come here with their wacky theories about Kenyan births and their crazy interpretations of several centuries of law.But, in the last month or so, nada.Where are they?Where are the birthers of the good old days.Obama is back up in the polls as one Republican after another self-destructs and we can’t even get joyeagle here to defend Herman “Libya?What’s that?” Cain or Newt “the $1.6 M historian” Gingrich.What is the world coming to?

     It isn’t just here. Oh For Goodness Sake hasn’t been updated in a week, and Patrick at Bad Fiction only posts every 2-3 days now.

     I suspect that most of the more casual birthers have been worn down by defeat after defeat, and only the truly hard core Obama haters are willing to keep up the fight. The colossal FAIL on Veterans Day may have been the final straw for some of them. I suppose that others are sitting on their hands, waiting for Dean Haskins to file his promised OMG lawsuit.
121. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 4:44 pm  G(Quote)

     I completely agree with your assessment, so I’m just going to quote from you and say ditto, because I think what you said here, said it best:

     While I love a good conspiracy theory, this one isn’t even up to the “I Had Big Foot’s Baby!” level. The creator of this idiocy is one, Martha Trowbridge, who can’t even get her dots on the same piece of paper to connect them. I suspect there is a long scrawl of crayon in her home from her computer desk down to the floor, up to the wall, down the hall, and into the bathroom over to where the commode sits.

     Yeah, Mario’s fall into madness has been a pitiful and sad sight to behold. Maybe his version of the famous Italian statue is the Mouth of Morons…where anyone who sticks their hand in it becomes stuck on stupid… that’s the only explanation I can come up with. 😉

     Head Researcher: I just clobbered Mario Apuzzo, Esq. WITH LOGIC, on his Jo Ann Newman stuff.http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/la-bocca-della-falsita-the-mouth-of-falsehoods/The Head Researcher
122. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 4:56 pm  G(Quote)

     Well, Patrick at Bad Fiction posting every few days is actually fairly typical. He always posts when he can fit things in between work and family and stuff. His posts usually contain a fairly detailed recap of several days worth of crazy activity and statements from the Birtherverse…so a several day recap is normal over there.

     Beyond that, I’d be more inclined to think we’re just experiencing a lull before the next storm of stupid. The mere idea of a re-election next year will have the Birtheristani faithful foaming at the mouth into new acts of futile desperation. Once 2012 starts and many state legislatures start back up, I fully expect another last gasp desperate attempt to re-push Birther Bill nonsense in the hopes of restricting ballot access at the state level.

     Mad Orly shows no signs of slowing down on filing her frivolous failures…not until some judge or Bar finally strips her ability to do so away.

     Dean Haskins will be flogging his Birther Summit wet dream until the actual FAIL event occurs…so there’s several months of upcoming sad antics in advertisement and anticipation for that dud.

     Sherrif Joe and his Cold Case Posse have promised a “report” by January to the Birtheristani…so they’ve got that desperate false hope to cling to over the next several months as well…

     Other than that, it is just a very sad and steady descent into madness on display in Birtherdom. …Which used to be entertaining, but now has gotten to such a level of bizarre and abhorrent crazy that you often just leave shaking your head or wanting to take a shower instead of being able to even muster a chuckle.

     Rickey: It isn’t just here. Oh For Goodness Sake hasn’t been updated in a week, and Patrick at Bad Fiction only posts every 2-3 days now. I suspect that most of the more casual birthers have been worn down by defeat after defeat, and only the truly hard core Obama haters are willing to keep up the fight. The colossal FAIL on Veterans Day may have been the final straw for some of them. I suppose that others are sitting on their hands, waiting for Dean Haskins to file his promised OMG lawsuit.
123. Scientist says:

     November 16, 2011 at 5:08 pm  Scientist(Quote)

     G: Once 2012 starts and many state legislatures start back up, I fully expect another last gasp desperate attempt to re-push Birther Bill nonsense in the hopes of restricting ballot access at the state level.

     G- I have to disagree with that. At the height of birtherism, early this year, only a few of those bills actually came to a vote and the only one that passed, in Arizona, was vetoed and no attempt was made to override. Given that birtherism has declined very significantly from then, I will predict that no birther bills will make it onto the legislative calendar anywhere in 2012.
124. Daniel says:

     November 16, 2011 at 5:25 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     Scientist: G- I have to disagree with that.At the height of birtherism, early this year, only a few of those bills actually came to a vote and the only one that passed, in Arizona, was vetoed and no attempt was made tooverride.Given that birtherism has declined very significantly from then, I will predict that no birther bills will make it onto the legislative calendar anywhere in 2012.

     I agree we probably won’t see any official re-visitation of the birther-bill fiasco, but I suspect the birthers will be trying to push it for all it’s worth. Is that perhaps what you were referring to, G?
125. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 6:11 pm  G(Quote)

     Daniel – You are correct. I think Scientist is simply misinterpreting what I said.

     I don’t expect ANY Birther bills to actually pass at all… and I expect that many of the state legislative fools that tried this crap last year won’t have the stomach to do it again.

     However, I do expect the Birthers to desperately latch onto and push the issue and there are actual Birthers amongst some of the state congress criitters …. so I think there will be a few of the “faithful” amongst them who will try their darndest to push this nonsense again…

     So, what I’m getting at is I suspect a lot of attempts to *submit* Birther Bills at the state level…(legislators submit all sorts of crazy Bill requests all the time…MOST never see the light of day and never make it out of a committee to even be voted upon) but I expect any such attempts to die on the vine and fail, just as they did last year.

     Scientist: G- I have to disagree with that. At the height of birtherism, early this year, only a few of those bills actually came to a vote and the only one that passed, in Arizona, was vetoed and no attempt was made to override. Given that birtherism has declined very significantly from then, I will predict that no birther bills will make it onto the legislative calendar anywhere in 2012.

     Daniel: I agree we probably won’t see any official re-visitation of the birther-bill fiasco, but I suspect the birthers will be trying to push it for all it’s worth. Is that perhaps what you were referring to, G?
126. Daniel says:

     November 16, 2011 at 6:33 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     The fact remains that if a bill is too crazy for even Arizona to adopt….
127. Scientist says:

     November 16, 2011 at 6:41 pm  Scientist(Quote)

     G-Oh, some birthers may try, but I think they will get an even less sympathetic hearing than they got the last time, Legislators will have noted the recall of Senator (or former Senator) Pearce in Arizona. While the main factor was the immigration law, I suspect his pushing the birther bill did not help his cause.
128. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 7:32 pm  G(Quote)

     I agree with you.

     Scientist: G-Oh, some birthers may try, but I think they will get an even less sympathetic hearing than they got the last time, Legislators will have noted the recall of Senator (or former Senator) Pearce in Arizona. While the main factor was the immigration law, I suspect his pushing the birther bill did not help his cause.
129. Daniel says:

     November 16, 2011 at 8:02 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     Scientist: Oh, some birthers may try, but I think they will get an even less sympathetic hearing than they got the last time,

     No doubt about that at all…. but when has lack of traction ever stopped a birther from spinning his wheels furiously, and proudly pointing out how well they turn?
130. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 9:04 pm  G(Quote)

     Exactly… Nor has it stopped them from attempting the same zombie failure methods and ressurecting the same zombie lies over and over and over and over and over again…

     Daniel: No doubt about that at all…. but when has lack of traction ever stopped a birther from spinning his wheels furiously, and proudly pointing out how well they turn?
131. Obsolete says:

     November 16, 2011 at 9:29 pm  Obsolete(Quote)

     I think this is the quiet before the storm known as the 2012 election heats up…
     I predict we will be shocked at some of the upcoming birther acts, as they sink further into madness, rage, futility, and isolation from family and friends.

     In the meantime, I might whittle away some time trying to learn Cuban, like Herman Cain…
132. G says:

     November 16, 2011 at 11:33 pm  G(Quote)

     I definitely expect a few of the unhinged to cross the line and do something foolish / dangerous / illegal. I’ve had this concern for quite some time.

     I’m also expecting to hear a big uptick of “Obama as Antichrist” meme in 2012…as its a simplistic fallback position for them to go when they’ve got nothing left to pull out of their butt… also, it fits well within their paranoid conspiracies of doom and often extremist religionist zeal and will tie in well to the gullible belief of some that armageddon is soon approaching.

     Obsolete: I think this is the quiet before the storm known as the 2012 election heats up…
     I predict we will be shocked at some of the upcoming birther acts, as they sink further into madness, rage, futility, and isolation from family and friends.
133. John Reilly says:

     November 17, 2011 at 12:13 am  John Reilly(Quote)

     Ms. Dr. Taitz Esq. has made it clear she will file suits and challenges all over to President Obama running. She has already started that process in New Hampshire, and claims some state representatives will join her.

     That will lead to some press questions to candidates, and Lord knows what Mr. Cain or Gov. Perry will say about that. When Mr. Cain or Gov. Perry open their mouths about normal issues (i.e., Libya, how many cabinet departments do we really need) they have enough trouble.

     I think there will be an uptick in Doc’s traffic soon enough.
134. Lupin says:

     November 17, 2011 at 3:23 am  Lupin(Quote)

     G: Yeah, Mario’s fall into madness has been a pitiful and sad sight to behold. Maybe his version of the famous Italian statue is the Mouth of Morons…where anyone who sticks their hand in it becomes stuck on stupid… that’s the only explanation I can come up with. 😉

     Mario isn’t falling into madness; he’s doing what mob lawyers do, when confronted with mountains of incriminating evidence: argue increasingly preposterous, sometimes laughable, theories with a straight face, in order to earn their keep.

     That’s the only explanation hat makes sense.
135. The Magic M says:

     November 17, 2011 at 4:01 am  The Magic M(Quote)

     Lupin: Mario isn’t falling into madness; he’s doing what mob lawyers do

     Actually, he’s come full circle. Birtherism started out as “let’s find something embarrassing about Obama” and here we are, after all the Kenya/Vattel/forgery/SSN/usurper crapalooza, back to “he had a radical for a father”.
136. The Magic M says:

     November 17, 2011 at 4:05 am  The Magic M(Quote)

     G: I definitely expect a few of the unhinged to cross the line and do something foolish / dangerous / illegal.

     I expected the same during the time when WND pimped the “he isn’t running for a second term, he’s a wreck, he’s planning his exit strategy” meme. I knew that if enough birthers believed that, they would be extremely upset when they find out that’s a load of horse manure.
     However since it seems to be settled in Birtherland that Obama will run again and likely win (regardless whether they think he’ll win fairly or by “election fraud”), I don’t see any of them doing something then that he couldn’t do now.
137. Keith says:

     November 17, 2011 at 6:56 am  Keith(Quote)

     In another thread, I quoted an essay by Don Watson. That essay peaked my interest in his other writings, so I looked him up. He is fairly prolific.

     First of all, Watson is the author of the book Death Sentences (In UK – Gobbledygook, Atlantic 2004, in US – Death Sentences, Gotham Books, May 2005.)

     “…about the decay of public language, was also a best seller and won the Australian Booksellers Association Book of the Year.[3] Watson’s Dictionary of Weasel Words was published in 2004 and continued to encourage readers to renounce what he perceives to be meaningless corporate and government jargon that is spreading throughout Australia and embrace meaningful, precise language. More recently Watson contributed the preface to a selection of Mark Twain’s writings, The Wayward Tourist.

     His latest book, American Journeys is a narrative of modern America from Watson’s travels in the United States following Hurricane Katrina. It was published by Knopf in 2008 and won both The Age Book of the Year non-fiction and Book of the Year awards.[4] It also won the 2008 Walkley Award for the best non-fiction book.”

     (italicized text from his Wikipedia entry).

     I’ve heard of the book Death Sentences and its reason for being, but the author had never ‘clicked’ on me. I think that as a result of the essay quoted above I’ll have to add him to my reading list.

     I highly recommend his website Weaselwords dedicated to the destruction of doublespeak everywhere.

     I also found out he wrote the screenplay for the film The Man Who Sued God. Great movie! One of Billy Connolly’s best jobs.
138. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:19 am  G(Quote)

     Patrick over at Badfiction had a good update yesterday on Orly’s latest NH antics and the “progress” she is making there. She seems to have 2 birther state level congress critters supporting her on this.

     http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/2011/11/dispatches-from-birtherstan-15-16-november-2011.html#more

     Here are some excerpts:

     FROM ORLY:
     “Now two State Representatives from New Hampshire: Harry Accornero and Larry Rappoport called me and stated, that they are joining me in my elections challenge of Obama in NH. They stated, that they are forwarding my complaint to other State representatives and State Senators, asking them to join. In NH they have a Republican majority in both houses. I was told that representatives Delimas and Commerford will probably join, too.”

     PER PATRICK’S REPORT:
     Harry Accornero is, of course, the state rep who’s trying to get Obama charged with treason. Lawrence Rappaport is a birther who has been a plaintiff in at least one of Dr. Orly’s cases and had already tried to do a challenge in 2010. Gee, what a surprise.
     …
     PER ORLY’S LATEST UPDATE:

     “I just got off the phone with Caren Ladd, the secretary of the Elections Board of the state of NH. Attorney General of NH forwarded my complaint faxed to them on Monday to the Secretary of State, from there it went to the Elections Board.

     An elections board hearing is scheduled for day after tomorrow, Friday, November 18th, 2pm and Legislative office building, Room 307, Concord NH.”

     “I would greatly appreciate, if as many supporters as possible come to the hearing. Also, all the travel is extremely expensive. every trip of just 2 days travel costs me about $1,000, which includes airplane tickets, car rental, one night hotel. That does not take into account all of the days of missed work, so I really need your support in donations and in frequent flier miles and hotel and car rental points.”

     “Let’s hope, this nightmare will be over on Friday. Let’s hope the elections board of NH will have the decency to refuse Obama to appear on the ballot due to undeniable evidence of him using a stolen CT SSN (redacted), which was never assigned to him according to E-Verify and SSNVS and due to the fact, that he is using a computer generated forgery instead of a valid birth certificate.”

     As Patrick notes (and documents in previous reports), Orly lives in a $4 million dollar house, her husband is a multimillionaire, and still she plays poor to her gullible followers in order to fleece them for donations and to pay for her travels…

     John Reilly: Ms. Dr. Taitz Esq. has made it clear she will file suits and challenges all over to President Obama running. She has already started that process in New Hampshire, and claims some state representatives will join her.That will lead to some press questions to candidates, and Lord knows what Mr. Cain or Gov. Perry will say about that. When Mr. Cain or Gov. Perry open their mouths about normal issues (i.e., Libya, how many cabinet departments do we really need) they have enough trouble. I think there will be an uptick in Doc’s traffic soon enough.
139. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:24 am  G(Quote)

     I agree that he could just be that much of a sleazebag sham artist… although I would think his credibility as a laywer has to take severe professional hits when he tries to peddle crap as downright silly as this. Of course, he could be starting to believe his nonsense and going mad on top of all this… it sure seems that a severe case of ODS brings on bouts of madness even amongst the con artists out there. At some point, they begin to buy into their own crap.

     Lupin: Mario isn’t falling into madness; he’s doing what mob lawyers do, when confronted with mountains of incriminating evidence: argue increasingly preposterous, sometimes laughable, theories with a straight face, in order to earn their keep.

     I would argue that going crazy makes just as much sense. They both are plausible at this point.

     Lupin: That’s the only explanation that makes sense.
140. Lupin says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:34 am  Lupin(Quote)

     G: I agree that he could just be that much of a sleazebag sham artist… although I would think his credibility as a laywer has to take severe professional hits when he tries to peddle crap as downright silly as this. Of course, he could be starting to believe his nonsense and going mad on top of all this… it sure seems that a severe case of ODS brings on bouts of madness even amongst the con artists out there. At some point, they begin to buy into their own crap

     I only had two experiences in my somewhat long career of facing attorneys operating on total bad faith (or just about) and spouting utter nonsense.

     In both cases the attorneys in question, complete scoundrels and a blot on the profession, were, as the saying goes, laughing all the way to the bank. In the first case, the client was knowingly complicit (and guilty) and the purpose of the “act” was to delay the inevitable as much as possible; in the second case, the client was a fool blinded by personal prejudices and the attorney was stoking the fires of litigation to enrich himself.

     Ultimately, we won’t know for certain what Mario’s motivation is until we waterboard him 🙂 but I don’t think it’s madness.
141. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:36 am  G(Quote)

     Actually, I think the only thing that has kept some of the more unhinged and desperate Birtheristani from physically acting out in desperation is the very fact that they keep finding another “any day now” birther ploy to pine their fruitless hopes upon. Tilting at Windmills may be the only thing keeping some of them in check from giving up and causing actual harm.

     I am actually more concerned about these delusional folks developing a sense that Obama’s re-election *IS* inevitable… the only desperate recourse they would have left is to try to do something completely…inappropriate to “prevent” such an inevitability. That is what really worries me.

     Look at what happened just this past Friday and is currently making the news – 21 yr old Idaho native, Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez was arrested yesterday in conjunction with 2 bullets that were fired at the White House windows. I’ve included a link to the original news article I saw, but I’ve heard further updates already this morning with details that Oscar had a past criminal record, a history of mental issues and per his family, harbored an extreme hatred of the President. He also hated “Washington” and “society”. Additional reports add that he had a bizarre obsession with 11-11-11 and the End of the World….

     http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/11/bullet-hits-obama-white-house/1?csp=hf

     Now, no evidence has come out yet that indicates that Oscar was a Birther…but he obviously had ODS. So my point here is that extreme anti-Obama sentiment can cause some (especially those with a criminal past and/or mental issues) to cross the line…

     The Magic M: I expected the same during the time when WND pimped the “he isn’t running for a second term, he’s a wreck, he’s planning his exit strategy” meme. I knew that if enough birthers believed that, they would be extremely upset when they find out that’s a load of horse manure.However since it seems to be settled in Birtherland that Obama will run again and likely win (regardless whether they think he’ll win fairly or by “election fraud”), I don’t see any of them doing something then that he couldn’t do now.
142. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:38 am  G(Quote)

     From some of Mario’s prior unhinged posts & emotional outbursts…I suspect that he tends to go on a bender of “self-waterboarding” from time to time, if you know what I mean… 😉

     Lupin: Ultimately, we won’t know for certain what Mario’s motivation is until we waterboard him but I don’t think it’s madness.
143. Lupin says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:43 am  Lupin(Quote)

     The Magic M: Actually, he’s come full circle. Birtherism started out as “let’s find something embarrassing about Obama” and here we are, after all the Kenya/Vattel/forgery/SSN/usurper crapalooza, back to “he had a radical for a father”.

     I’d argue that the “full circle” method (ie: let’s revisit an already settled issue redressed in another trapping) is typical of “mob lawyers” tactics and in a proper Court of Law quickly squashed by a judge.

     Understand that I’m not “defending” Mario: his brief sucks; what else can he do if he wants to continue cashing those oh so sweet checks…
144. Lupin says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:49 am  Lupin(Quote)

     G: From some of Mario’s prior unhinged posts & emotional outbursts…I suspect that he tends to go on a bender of “self-waterboarding” from time to time, if you know what I mean… 😉

     Ah yes, there are his outbursts and crazy rants… and they’re not (entirely) part of the act, I think… You do have a point…

     Myself, I think Mario is too thin-skinned for the part he’s chosen to play.

     One of the lawyers I was referring to in my earlier post (the one whose client was guilty, not crazy) would just shrug off insults with a knowing smirk. Mario can’t quite bring himself to that level of self-awareness, I think. Plus, he likes playing for a peanut gallery which didn’t exist in the cases I had in mind. That must distort one’s judgment.
145. Lupin says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:53 am  Lupin(Quote)

     G: Look at what happened just this past Friday and is currently making the news – 21 yr old Idaho native, Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez was arrested yesterday in conjunction with 2 bullets that were fired at the White House windows. I’ve included a link to the original news article I saw, but I’ve heard further updates already this morning with details that Oscar had a past criminal record, a history of mental issues and per his family, harbored an extreme hatred of the President. He also hated “Washington” and “society”. Additional reports add that he had a bizarre obsession with 11-11-11 and the End of the World….

     That’s a scary story. I wasn’t aware of it. That Oscar person looks just like the guy who shot that congresswoman in Arizona, Gabby something… I’ll be curious to learn more about his own brand of madness.

     I think your concerns are very well founded. I certainly hope your Secret Service is up to the task (and what a daunting task it must be!)
146. Majority Will says:

     November 17, 2011 at 8:21 am  Majority Will(Quote)

     Lupin: the client was a fool blinded by personal prejudices and the attorney was stoking the fires of litigation to enrich himself.

     That seems to describe the putative attorney and natural born bigot El Putzo in a nutshell but he also eagerly slurps up his own dog food and excretes delusions of grandeur.
147. The Magic M says:

     November 17, 2011 at 8:45 am  The Magic M(Quote)

     G: is the very fact that they keep finding another “any day now” birther ploy to pine their fruitless hopes upon

     Then let’s all be thankful that “waiting for the problem to solve itself” (as in “waiting for the OMG moment”) is a common trait among many cranks across all spectra.

     In my country where you have the right wing (read: neo-Nazi) cranks who believe we’re still an unfree country occupied by The Evil USA, their crackpot organizations keep playing the “end of the world” game as well.
     When I still followed their antics, their forums continually made predictions of when “the whole sham is going to collapse”, usually with some magic numbers involved as “60 years after this, 50 years after that”.
     And despite all predictions failing, people kept sitting on their hands, waiting for the next one to bring salvation. I suppose they’re still sitting and waiting, Ceiling Cat be praised.

     The birther procrastination reminds me a lot of that pattern.
148. James M says:

     November 17, 2011 at 9:11 am  James M(Quote)

     G:

     Look at what happened just this past Friday and is currently making the news – 21 yr old Idaho native, Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez was arrested yesterday in conjunction with 2 bullets that were fired at the White House windows

     It’s interesting to observe the reaction to this one. Because he has a hispanic name, people generally assume he is from Mexico, which of course leads to an assumption that he is an illegal alien. So when it comes out that he was born in Idaho and there is no evidence that he has even been to Mexico, that information doesn’t register.

     Another thing I notice is that when it is reported that he had an “AK-47” that information is taken at face value. But a genuine AK-47 is an exceedingly rare piece, and cannot simply be purchased from an FFL dealer. This gun was a knock-off, and made to look like an AK-47 and took the same ammunition. It was apparently legally purchased and registered to the shooter. What’s interesting about that is his criminal background and supposedly known mental health history.

     So some people are led to believe (without actually thinking about it of course) that an alien (legal or otherwise!) purchased a semi-automatic AK-47 knockoff from a licensed dealer, passed the federal background check and registered the weapon despite having a criminal history.
149. James M says:

     November 17, 2011 at 9:15 am  James M(Quote)

     The Magic M: Ceiling Cat be praised.

     Another cat-related internet meme that I was not familiar with until now. Thanks for making my morning, Magic M!
150. PaulG says:

     November 17, 2011 at 10:55 am  PaulG(Quote)

     More Good News!

     The LOLcatz Bible is available on the kindle!
151. Rickey says:

     November 17, 2011 at 11:46 am  Rickey(Quote)

     G:
     I agree that he could just be that much of a sleazebag sham artist… although I would think his credibility as a laywer has to take severe professional hits when he tries to peddle crap as downright silly as this.

     Martindale-Hubbell lists Mario’s practice areas as ” Personal Injury; Criminal Law; Municipal Law; Matrimonial Law; Real Estate; General Practice.” It’s difficult to imagine how his birther activities serve to promote his modest practice in central New Jersey (several listings for his practice estimate his total annual revenue to be less than $500,000, and it looks like has a staff of four people or so).

     I’m inclined to believe what others have suggested, namely that some high roller is paying Mario to keep the birther stuff alive by hook or crook, and it is totally separate from the rest of his legal work.
152. Sef says:

     November 17, 2011 at 12:21 pm  Sef(Quote)

     Mad Ol’ Orly is complaining that hackers have deleted the contents of her blog postings. She is so uninformed about anything IT related that she doesn’t realize that when she appended ” – STICKY” to her postings she did it herself. She also is asking if anyone has a mirror of her site. Who in their right mind would do that? Unbelievable! Maybe after Friday in NH we will finally have “concord”.
153. Majority Will says:

     November 17, 2011 at 12:33 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

     Sef:
     Mad Ol’ Orly is complaining that hackers have deleted the contents of her blog postings. She is so uninformed about anything IT related that she doesn’t realize that when she appended ” – STICKY” to her postings she did it herself. She also is asking if anyone has a mirror of her site. Who in their right mind would do that? Unbelievable! Maybe after Friday in NH we will finally have “concord”.

     “Mirror, mirror on the server, who is the craziest with fervor?”
154. Rickey says:

     November 17, 2011 at 2:37 pm  Rickey(Quote)

     G:
     Patrick over at Badfiction had a good update yesterday on Orly’s latest NH antics and the “progress” she is making there.

     Orly is so delusional that she believes that the Elections Board (and in New Hampshire it’s called the Election Division) will tomorrow rule in her favor on a complaint which she just filed. Even if they were to find that her complaint has merit, surely they would have to give Obama’s people an opportunity to respond. Of course, in Orly’s world just the fact that they are processing her complaint is, in her eyes, a sign that they are taking it seriously, when in fact it is likely that every complaint is handled the same way.
155. Daniel says:

     November 17, 2011 at 3:58 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     I see that Orly already has her flying monkeys out trying to dig up dirt on the NH board members, in case they don’t “follow the law” (Orlyspeak for “rule in my favor”). I don’t imagine the elections board would look favorably on her per-emptive preparations for blackmail.
156. Judge Mental says:

     November 17, 2011 at 4:45 pm  Judge Mental(Quote)

     Excuse a foreigner who is not at all clued up on 2012 election procedure time frames if this transpires to be a silly question, but would Obama actually have already registered as a candidate for the New Hampshire ballot at this point in time?

     If by any chance the answer is no, how can this half-wit make a complaint at this time about him having broken the rules for NH registered candidates?

     I wouldn’t normally ask something as trite as this but past experience proves that this half-wit harridan is capable of the most elementary of procedural error.
157. Scientist says:

     November 17, 2011 at 6:45 pm  Scientist(Quote)

     Judge Mental: Excuse a foreigner who is not at all clued up on 2012 election procedure time frames if this transpires to be a silly question, but would Obama actually have already registered as a candidate for the New Hampshire ballot at this point in time?

     The deadline to file for the Democratic primary in New Hampshire was October 28. While no serious candidate is challenging President Obama in the primary (some would say the same about the general election), there will be a ballot with his name, along with those of several opponents, none of whom have any chance of winning,

     Of course Orly is not a Democrat, nor a New Hampshire resident, nor a candidate, so she has no standing to challenge.
158. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 6:54 pm  G(Quote)

     Good analysis. Makes sense to me.

     Lupin: Myself, I think Mario is too thin-skinned for the part he’s chosen to play.
     One of the lawyers I was referring to in my earlier post (the one whose client was guilty, not crazy) would just shrug off insults with a knowing smirk. Mario can’t quite bring himself to that level of self-awareness, I think. Plus, he likes playing for a peanut gallery which didn’t exist in the cases I had in mind. That must distort one’s judgment.
159. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:05 pm  G(Quote)

     Well, the Neo-Nazi movement in Germany remains a current threat. In fact, with the recent discovery of a neo-Nazi cell that has been murdering immigrants for over a decade, the threat level is being taken even more seriously than ever and there is talk of creating a registry, similar to anti-terrorist registries, to track and monitor them:

     Germany to set up neo-Nazi registry after ten murders. Germany’s interior minister has said a national database of neo-Nazi extremists will be set up.

     Germans are shocked that a suspected neo-Nazi cell went undetected for a decade during which it allegedly killed nine immigrants and a policewoman.

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15764312

     The Magic M: Then let’s all be thankful that “waiting for the problem to solve itself” (as in “waiting for the OMG moment”) is a common trait among many cranks across all spectra.In my country where you have the right wing (read: neo-Nazi) cranks who believe we’re still an unfree country occupied by The Evil USA, their crackpot organizations keep playing the “end of the world” game as well.When I still followed their antics, their forums continually made predictions of when “the whole sham is going to collapse”, usually with some magic numbers involved as “60 years after this, 50 years after that”.And despite all predictions failing, people kept sitting on their hands, waiting for the next one to bring salvation. I suppose they’re still sitting and waiting, Ceiling Cat be praised.The birther procrastination reminds me a lot of that pattern.
160. Judge Mental says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:30 pm  Judge Mental(Quote)

     Scientist: The deadline to file for the Democratic primary in New Hampshire was October 28.While no serious candidate is challenging President Obama in the primary (some would say the same about the general election), there will be a ballot with his name, along with those of several opponents, none of whom have any chance of winning,

     Of course Orly is not a Democrat, nor a New Hampshire resident, nor a candidate, so she has no standing to challenge.

     Thanks Scientist, that explains the timing.

     Re your comments about her ‘standing’. I’m not at all sure that she doesn’t have standing to bring a complaint, not that I think for a nanosecond it will afford her any desired results. Scribd appears to be temporarily down for maintenance so I can’t read it again right now to check.
161. G says:

     November 17, 2011 at 7:48 pm  G(Quote)

     On matters as serious as these, I’d prefer that my concerns be wrong than end up coming true. As I’ve been saying for quite some time here and other places, I expected the next ODS meme of desperation to be “Obama = Antichrist”…the last refuge of irrational hate when all of their other sick conspiracy excuses have run their course of failure. And as I’ve mentioned, it is usually the mentally unhinged and those with a criminal past that are most likely to take that next desperate leap from hatred to “lone wolf” action.

     Unfortunately, this Ortega-Hernandez character seems to be proving all of those concerns to be true:

     White House shooting suspect called Obama ‘the anti-Christ’

     WASHINGTON – A 21-year-old man charged with firing a semiautomatic rifle at the White House last week called President Obama “the anti-Christ” and told federal agents he wanted to hurt the president , according to court documents released Thursday.
     …
     A person in Idaho who knows him told federal agents that Ortega had become agitated against the federal goverment and was convinced there was a government conspiracy against him , FBI Agent Chris Ormerod said in an affidavit filed in federal court. The witness told agents Ortega wanted to “hurt” Obama and referred to him as “the anti-Christ.” Another witness told investigators Ortega said he “needed to kill” Obama, Ormerod said.

     A third witness, who has known Ortega for more than six years, said Ortega owns an assault weapon with a scope, Ormerod said in the affidavit. Ortega blamed Obama for problems with the federal goverment and believed Obama is the devil , the witness told federal agents.

     http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-11-17/obama-assassination-attempt/51271096/1

     Lupin: I think your concerns are very well founded. I certainly hope your Secret Service is up to the task (and what a daunting task it must be!)
162. Keith says:

     November 18, 2011 at 4:45 am  Keith(Quote)

     Arizona court spanks Governor and reverses the dismissal of the Redistricting Committee char. The dismissal was unconstitutional.

     Brewer naked power grab came after Dan Quayle’s mom urged her to remove the independent chair so the Republicans could gerrymander the result.

     The committee’s draft recommendation was for 4 Republican and 2 Democratic Blue Ribbon seats and 3 swing seats. This apparently was not good enough for the Repugnants.
163. Keith says:

     November 18, 2011 at 4:48 am  Keith(Quote)

     Sorry forgot the link to the story.

     Arizona Supreme Court Overturns Gov. Jan Brewer’s Removal Of Redistricting Chair
164. Judge Mental says:

     November 18, 2011 at 11:47 am  Judge Mental(Quote)

     Judge Mental: Thanks Scientist, that explains the timing.

     Re your comments about her standing’. I’m not at all sure that she doesn’t have standing to bring a complaint, not that I think for a nanosecond it will afford her any desired results. Scribd appears to be temporarily down for maintenance so I can’t read it again right now to check.

     Further to this I’ve had another look at it and while I’m no expert I don’t see any obvious reason why she’d need residency in NH nor any other kind of ‘standing’ to lodge the nature of complaint that she’s lodged, albeit one which is in reality full of stuff and nonsense.
165. Majority Will says:

     November 18, 2011 at 1:00 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

     The self-appointed Paraclete is pouting again.

     From Little Leo’s birther cesspool of delusion:

     (excerpt) In The Spirit of Truth.
     Posted in Uncategorized on November 18, 2011 by naturalborncitizen
     My name is Leo Donofrio. I have a J.D. from St. John’s University. I’ve passed three bar exams; New York, New Jersey and the Multi-State. I’ve been licensed to practice law in New Jersey and the Federal Courts for the last twenty years.

     NEW COMMENTING POLICY

     I put my name and professional reputation on everything I post at this blog. From now on, if you want to post here, you must be licensed to practice law. State your real name and the jurisdiction(s) you are licensed in. NO EXCEPTIONS.

     The national dialogue on the legal issues discussed here has often become juvenile at best and intentionally misleading at worst. If you tried to argue on a bar examination – or law school final – that the US Supreme Court in Ex Parte Lockwood did not acknowledge Minor v. Happersett as a precedent on the definition of federal citizenship, you would fail. Yet, all over the blogosphere anonymous propaganda pushing blatant falsehoods is rampant. “NOT UP IN HERE!”

     Feel free to use the comment box for submitting letters to the editor. I am always happy to hear from you and will investigate tips and links alike, but only legal peers will see their commentary published. And such commentary by fellow members of the bar will be printed in full. My responses will follow in a separate comment.

     Law school is hard. Bar examinations are VERY difficult. And attorneys are also required to take continuing legal education for years after admission to the bar.

     While I appreciate the love and faith people have shown me in their comments, I cannot print them any longer. The analysis must stand upon its own merit as filtered through the counter-analysis of other attorneys who are willing to stake their professional reputations upon such dialogue.

     Attorneys may not intentionally mis-represent the law. That is a violation of professional rules of conduct. Anonymous commenters and bloggers do not have the weight of that responsibility over them, nor are they subject to the same penalties for breaking the rules.

     (Source: Link intentionally not provided. Fair warning: the Don Johnson impersonation photo may cause temporary hysterical blindness, nausea and projectile vomiting.)
166. Joey says:

     November 18, 2011 at 4:47 pm  Joey(Quote)

     Orly Taitz lost (again) in her neverending battle against the President. The New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission rejected her challenge to President Obama’s name appearing on the New Hampshire Primary Election ballot.
     Orly went for the trifecta: Forged Birth Certificate, fake Social Security number, Minor v Happersett.
167. Judge Mental says:

     November 18, 2011 at 5:20 pm  Judge Mental(Quote)

     Joey:
     Orly Taitz lost (again) in her neverending battle against the President. The New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission rejected her challenge to President Obama’s name appearing on the New Hampshire Primary Election ballot.
     Orly went for the trifecta: Forged Birth Certificate, fake Social Security number, Minor v Happersett.

     Have you seen the video?

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM7LIfq1RuM&feature=youtu.be

     Quite possibly the most anti-climactic moment yet. Less than 2 minutes tops including the intro of the NH legal advisor explaining what the applicable law was. Basically NH then said that all they could do was check if his registration met the rquirements of the applicable law for registering candidates. They concluded that yes his registration documents met the requirements and yes he had paid the $1k fee. Decision to accept Obama’s registration for the ballot upheld. Next please.
168. Joey says:

     November 18, 2011 at 5:28 pm  Joey(Quote)

     “Obamareleaseyourrecords” aka “the Birther Report” is spinning it that the New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission said that they have no jurisdiction over criminal matters!
169. Judge Mental says:

     November 18, 2011 at 5:50 pm  Judge Mental(Quote)

     Joey:
     “Obamareleaseyourrecords” aka “the Birther Report” is spinning it that the New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission said that they have no jurisdiction over criminal matters!

     To be fair Joey, in a way they did.

     Here’s a summary niucked from the Fogbow forums of everything that went on before that short video of the ‘coup de grace’ closing moments, including Orly’s tortured presentation.
     of her complaint.

     http://www.scribd.com/doc/73157849/NEW-HAMPSHIRE-BALLOT-CHALLENGE-HEARING-REPORT-11-18-11-As-Reported-by-Whatever4-of-The-Fogbow
170. Head Researcher says:

     November 18, 2011 at 5:52 pm  Head Researcher(Quote)

     In other news today, The Paraclete Gives up The Ghost!!! Leo Donofrio walks away from the two citizen-parent stuff is MY take on it.

     http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/the-paraclete-gives-up-the-ghost/

     The Head Researcher
171. Rickey says:

     November 18, 2011 at 6:45 pm  Rickey(Quote)

     Judge Mental:

     Here’s a summary niucked from the Fogbow forums of everything that went on before that short video of the coup de grace’ closing moments, including Orly’s tortured presentation.of her complaint.

     What a circus! It’s entertaining, but there were some seriously unhinged people there.
172. Daniel says:

     November 18, 2011 at 6:53 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     I think the NH board did say that they had no jurisdiction over criminal matters, but the birthers are now spinning that as the NH board is admitting that a crime has taken place.

     Of what it really is is the NH board, haven been handed a bunch of ALLEGATIONS of criminal wrongdoing, refused to look at it as they have no jurisdiction.
173. G says:

     November 18, 2011 at 7:22 pm  G(Quote)

     LMAO!

     Thanks for the write-up & video. Man, what a circus of stupid the Birther posse there was! …and what was with that whole spiel about checks not being legal money??? These losers are indeed detatched from reality!

     Judge Mental: To be fair Joey, in a way they did.Here’s a summary niucked from the Fogbow forums of everything that went on before that short video of the coup de grace’ closing moments, including Orly’s tortured presentation.of her complaint.http://www.scribd.com/doc/73157849/NEW-HAMPSHIRE-BALLOT-CHALLENGE-HEARING-REPORT-11-18-11-As-Reported-by-Whatever4-of-The-Fogbow

     Judge Mental: Have you seen the video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM7LIfq1RuM&feature=youtu.beQuite possibly the most anti-climactic moment yet. Less than 2 minutes tops including the intro of the NH legal advisor explaining what the applicable law was. Basically NH then said that all they could do was check if his registration met the rquirements of the applicable law for registering candidates. They concluded that yes his registration documents met the requirements and yes he had paid the $1k fee. Decision to accept Obama’s registration for the ballot upheld. Next please.
174. G says:

     November 18, 2011 at 7:26 pm  G(Quote)

     LOL! Yeah, from Leo’s whine, it sure sounds like little cry baby Leo can’t hack being constantly smacked down by Squeeky! Poltergeist is a good one…Leo the Noisy Ghost indeed! LMAO!

     Head Researcher: In other news today, The Paraclete Gives up The Ghost!!! Leo Donofrio walks away from the two citizen-parent stuff is MY take on it.http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/the-paraclete-gives-up-the-ghost/The Head Researcher
175. Daniel says:

     November 18, 2011 at 7:32 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     Head Researcher:
     In other news today, The Paraclete Gives up The Ghost!!! Leo Donofrio walks away from the two citizen-parent stuff is MY take on it.

     http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/the-paraclete-gives-up-the-ghost/

     The Head Researcher

     You and I are miles apart on a lot of things, but credit where credit is due.

     Well done Squeeky
176. Majority Will says:

     November 18, 2011 at 8:51 pm  Majority Will(Quote)

     Daniel: You and I are miles apart on a lot of things, but credit where credit is due.

     Well done Squeeky

     Ditto.
177. Head Researcher says:

     November 18, 2011 at 8:56 pm  Head Researcher(Quote)

     To G, Daniel, And Majority Will:

     Thank you!!! I am still going to stay all over him and Mario Apuzzo, too. Plus, I am adding Dean Haskins to my list, and probably Jerome Corsi, too.

     The Head Researcher
178. Lucas D. Smith says:

     November 18, 2011 at 10:05 pm  Lucas D. Smith(Quote)

     Good evening everyone,

     I have published a new TREMENDOUSLY INFORMATIVE blog report at my WOBIK blog!

     “Glenn Hubert Newport and his son. World War II hero and intrepid world traveler from Iowa. Lots information regarding US citizens born abroad.”

     http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/glenn-hubert-newport-and-his-son-world-war-ii-hero-and-intrepid-world-traveler-from-iowa-lots-information-about-us-citizens-born-abroad/

     Thank you for visiting the blog and please share the contents of the blog with your family, friends, neighbors and coworkers! Please share your thoughts, critique and recommendations in the blog’s comments section.

     Have a wonderful weekend!

     Lucas D. Smith
     319-804-0440
179. G says:

     November 18, 2011 at 10:08 pm  G(Quote)

     Go get ’em!

     Head Researcher: To G, Daniel, And Majority Will:Thank you!!! I am still going to stay all over him and Mario Apuzzo, too. Plus, I am adding Dean Haskins to my list, and probably Jerome Corsi, too. The Head Researcher
180. Rickey says:

     November 18, 2011 at 11:25 pm  Rickey(Quote)

     Head Researcher:
     In other news today, The Paraclete Gives up The Ghost!!! Leo Donofrio walks away from the two citizen-parent stuff is MY take on it.

     You make a good point. If Leo is allowing only real lawyers to post on his blog, he’s going to have a tough time finding anyone to agree with him. He’s going to be lonely.
181. Daniel says:

     November 18, 2011 at 11:49 pm  Daniel(Quote)

     Lucas D. Smith:
     Good evening everyone,

     I have published a new blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

     How many innocent electrons had to die for you to make that useless post Lucas?
182. Reality Check says:

     November 19, 2011 at 9:55 am  Reality Check(Quote)

     Is this something you ran across while you were doing research on how to make a POSFKBC? :LOL:

     Lucas D. Smith:
     Good evening everyone,

     I have published a new TREMENDOUSLY INFORMATIVE blog report at my WOBIK blog!

     “Glenn Hubert Newport and his son.World War II hero and intrepid world traveler from Iowa.Lots information regarding US citizens born abroad.”
183. G says:

     November 19, 2011 at 10:52 am  G(Quote)

     While your article might be an interesting scholarly example of US citizenship for those born abroad in 1952, there is no correlation between what you write and anything connected with Obama’s birth circumstances.

     At best, the example you provide would be a closer comparison to John McCain’s birth circumstances…and even there, your very findings support NBC in that type of scenario.

     Despite your futile attempts to flog your POSFKBC, all actual credible evidence disproves you and proves that Obama was born in HI. Therefore, your continued efforts to find random examples of different people’s histories, completely unconnected to Obama and the circumstances of Obama’s birth, amounts to absolutely nothing. You really need to take some couses in logical thought and correlation, as so far all you are doing is spinning your wheels trying to throw spaghetti against the wall and hope something will stick. It simply is not.

     Further, your statement about “negroid” as an official option for a certain type of government form in 1952 has absolutely nothing to do with what can be listed in the year 1961 on Hawaii’s race identification field on their state birth certificates (an entirely different document), which have already been identified as something that is self-reported by the parent. Self-reporting is almost entirely opposite the entire concept of having a list of official government options. On this whole spiel of yours, there are so many degrees of separation between the two items, that this might be one of your biggest correlation failures yet.

     The only item worthy of any note in connection to the overall Birther issues is related to what you discuss about section g on that foreign birth form:

     (g), or persons who were born on or after noon, E. S. T., May 24, 1934, of parents one of whom was at the time a citizen of the United States while the other was an alien , the foreign service officer by whom this report of birth is prepared should notify the American parent, or if that is impracticable, the alien parent, that under the first proviso to Section 201 (g), the child whose birth is reported herein will be divested of citizenship of the United States if he or she fails to reside in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling 5 years between the ages of 13 and 21 years.”

     You are correct that this clearly shows that even in foreign births, only ONE American citizen parent is necessary where US Citizenship is concerned.

     So there, yet another fatal blow for the de Vattelist tards. (SQUEEKY – TAKE NOTE! You might want to read Lucas’ article to add that finding to your list of documentation that disproves the “Vattle Birthers”.)

     Lucas D. Smith: Good evening everyone,I have published a new TREMENDOUSLY INFORMATIVE blog report at my WOBIK blog!“Glenn Hubert Newport and his son. World War II hero and intrepid world traveler from Iowa. Lots information regarding US citizens born abroad.”http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/glenn-hubert-newport-and-his-son-world-war-ii-hero-and-intrepid-world-traveler-from-iowa-lots-information-about-us-citizens-born-abroad/Thank you for visiting the blog and please share the contents of the blog with your family, friends, neighbors and coworkers! Please share your thoughts, critique and recommendations in the blog’s comments section.Have a wonderful weekend!Lucas D. Smith319-804-0440
184. Head Researcher says:

     November 19, 2011 at 8:17 pm  Head Researcher(Quote)

     G:

     You said: So there, yet another fatal blow for the de Vattelist tards. (SQUEEKY – TAKE NOTE! You might want to read Lucas’ article to add that finding to your list of documentation that disproves the “Vattle Birthers”.)

     I will read it. I have already beat Leo Donofrio like a carpet over a clothesline WITH LOGIC, to where he is high-tailing it to Grand Jury stuff just to get away from me. I guess I will read up on Grand Jury stuff and chase him to where he just plays poker and stalks musicians.

     Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

     The Head Researcher
185. gorefan says:

     November 19, 2011 at 10:47 pm  gorefan(Quote)

     G: throw spaghetti against the wall

     “It’s not spaghetti, it’s linguini.”
186. G says:

     November 20, 2011 at 12:05 am  G(Quote)

     Trust me, when you study up on their Fantasy Tiddlywinks Grand Jury stuff, you’ll probably have enough for months of comedy material gold! Speaking of Leo, doesn’t he remind you of an Andy Kaufman routine that failed?

     Head Researcher: I guess I will read up on Grand Jury stuff and chase him to where he just plays poker and stalks musicians.
187. Lupin says:

     November 20, 2011 at 5:44 am  Lupin(Quote)

     Remind me, who was accused of gassing his own people?

     http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q07xZa-3UvE/TsdkVrJpOAI/AAAAAAAAAsc/OCxFx6YoQsQ/s1600/pepper.jpg

     Kudos to your brave and dignified students.
188. Lupin says:

     November 20, 2011 at 6:00 am  Lupin(Quote)

     In a rather unrelated note, I’m currently correcting/editing the translation of a story by our “friend” Emerich de Vattel entitled, “Voyages dans le microcosme, par un Disciple Moderne de Pythagore,” [Voyages in the Microcosm, by a Modern Disciple of Pytha-goras], first published in 1757.

     It is a marginal precursor of the genre of the French genre of roman scientifique (scientific romance), or conte philosophique, as exemplified by, say, Voltaire. It extrapolates the use of changes of scale pioneered in the latter’s Micromégas (1752) in an interesting fashion, although it is more interesting as a pioneering venture in the exploration of the “inner space” of the human psyche than as a mere exercise in viewpoint shrinkage.

     The story will be published by Black Coat Press in January 2012 in an anthology of other French proto-science fiction stories entitled NEMOVILLE.

     http://www.blackcoatpress.com/nemoville.htm
189. Keith says:

     November 20, 2011 at 6:18 am  Keith(Quote)

     Lupin:
     In a rather unrelated note, I’m currently correcting/editing the translation of a story by our “friend” Emerich de Vattel entitled, “Voyages dans le microcosme, par un Disciple Moderne de Pythagore,” [Voyages in the Microcosm, by a Modern Disciple of Pytha-goras], first published in 1757.

     It is a marginal precursor of the genre of the French genre of roman scientifique (scientific romance), or conte philosophique, as exemplified by, say, Voltaire. It extrapolates the use of changes of scale pioneered in the latter’s Micromégas (1752) in an interesting fashion, although it is more interesting as a pioneering venture in the exploration of the “inner space” of the human psyche than as a mere exercise in viewpoint shrinkage.

     The story will be published by Black Coat Press in January 2012 in an anthology of other French proto-science fiction stories entitled NEMOVILLE.

     http://www.blackcoatpress.com/nemoville.htm

     Oh, noes! You better not let E’s fans hear you accusing him of being an Alchemist like that! Their heads might explode.

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