Maybe a new birther moving company should be incorporated given how often they change their stories and move the goalposts. At least some birthers, unwilling to continue the “birth certificate is a forgery” theory in the light multiple verifications from Hawaii (not that they haven’t been verifying it since 2008) and replacing it with acquiescence that the Obama’s long form really is in Hawaii’s files, but that it’s not true.
Jerome Corsi raised the claim that his “mole” in the Hawaii Department of Health knows that a fake Obama certificate was inserted into the files. (Corsi promised to name names1, but he never did.) Other’s fall back on the very old “grandmother registered him” theory. Like all birther scenarios, they are both wildly impossible. Let’s look at each.
In the case of modern fraud, because certificates are sequentially numbered, the fact that Obama is in the book means that someone else had to be taken out of the book. There then remains the problem of putting in a certificate that would fool the state of Hawaii vital records staff, no small task. All this had to have been done before Obama was elected, since Dr. Fukino saw the birth certificate in the files in August of 2008. While we have no confirmation from Hawaii that vintage microfilm copies of the records bear the same certificate, SURELY THEY KNOW one way or the other. So if the “health department insider” switched the certificate in the book, AND someone got it entered into the computer system (to print the COLB) and printed in the 1961 birth index (which surely is decades old), the honest health department folks would have found out, and the entire vital records department has to be in on the conspiracy. And where did those 1961 newspaper notices from the Health Statistics Bureau come from?
The route for a vintage fraud is even crazier. In this case, it requires the complicity of attending physician Dr. David A. Sinclair, Ann Obama and Kapiolani hospital OR the state registrar of Hawaii knowingly inserting a fake certificate. Why would they do that for some baby of no special significance? I don’t understand the birther fascination with grandmothers, but there’s no mechanism for Madelyn Dunham to get a fake doctor-signed certificate from Kapiolani into the records (and frankly no reason for her to do so).
Both modern and vintage frauds also require the insertion of notations into the State Department files from 1961 and manipulation of vintage INS statistical reports of travelers from Kenya to the US to erase Ann Obama’s return trip.
It seems to me that both scenarios are totally absurd.
1I sense a certain reluctance on the part of some birthers to name names, except for Barack Obama and deceased persons who can’t defend themselves. When Dr. Alvin T. Onaka undeniably placed his signature on a verification of the Internet long form, birthers seemed to back away from calling him the culprit. Sheriff Joe Arpaio had his unnamed “person of interest” and Jerome Corsi refused to give a name. Birthers now are gravitating to President Obama’s deceased grandmother, pushing the conspiracy further and further away from facts and evidence and living persons.
Aww,c’mon, Doc, de birfers are perfectly willing to name names … just not complete names that identify anyone! Wasn’t it “Mark” that Corsi was trailing around? And that week or two when they were all excited by the name in the PDF markup.
If they weren’t all retired, or already employed full-time in the smear business, they’d be hiding their own names.
Birthers have a similar problem with the Selective Service Registration.
In August, 2008 the conservative website PJMedia published an e-mail from the Selective Service saying that President Obama registered in 1980. And in October, 2008 the Selective Service sent a copy of his SSR card to someone who gave it to Debbie Schussel, who posted it on her website in November, 2008. His SSR card is stamped with a 10 digit DLN that is in the range of other people who registered at the Makiki Station Post Office in Honolulu in July/August, 1980. His Selective Service Number (also a 10 digit number) also is in the same range as these other individuals.
So either the Bush Administration participated in the forgery or President Obama hacked into the SSS computer database to replace his information for someone else’s and then broken into two federal repositories to splice his “fake” SSR card onto the original microfilm roll and the non-record microfilm roll.
Cannot wait to hear the Cold Case Posse explain that to the news media.
“When Dr. Alvin T. Onaka undeniably placed his signature on a verification of the Internet long form, birthers seemed to back away from calling him the culprit.”
This is precisely the end of the birther movement, when no birther chose to take the case out of the civil litigation level and into criminal accusations of forgery. No birther is willing to personally testify as an eyewitness to a crime of forgery. That is because there is no forgery. While anyone can file a lawsuit, making a false accusation of a crime could have serious consequences for the accuser, and nobody in the birther movement ever believed seriously enough that forgery was committed, to be willing to personally testify to that fact. You don’t need “standing” to bring evidence of a crime to a law enforcement bureau.
Birthers make me feel smarter, and less mentally ill!
“And where did those 1961 newspaper notices from the Health Statistics Bureau come from? ”
Some birthers are convinced that someone went around to the various libraries and switched the microfilm rolls.
The Ministry of Truth …. those guys are good.
I think they have that effect on all of us, great and small 🙂
Then again most of them openly admit that the only court they are interested in is the “court of public opinion”.
> I sense a certain reluctance on the part of some birthers to name names
Let’s recap some of the anonymous birther “witnesses”:
* “Forger Mike”
* The “ex-CIA agents” who allegedly called the LFBC a forgery
* The “government contacts” who allegedly claim Congress doesn’t act because they fear “black riots”
* The “superiors” who allegedly told Tim Adams that there was no Obama BC
* The “person of interest” Arpaio mentioned
* The “former government employee” who allegedly was introduced to Obama as a foreign student (later named and identified to be the Ayers’ postman, but with a different version of the story)
* Trump’s “detectives” who “can’t believe what they’re finding”
And don’t even get me started about “Ulsterman” and other nutjobs…
> The route for a vintage fraud is even crazier.
Which is why I wonder why the “Obama isn’t really Obama but a person who took the real Barack Obama’s identity” angle hasn’t been more popular in Birtherstan.
Of all the possible conspiracy theories, it is the one that is probably the most difficult one to counter with evidence (it would probably only require the addendum that “all photos of Obama as a child have been forged”).
Political cranks pushing extreme and unpleasant views of how the government should be have long loved to put words in the mouths of our Founding Fathers, who are conveniently too dead to stand up for themselves. We all know how fond they are of saying that the FFs clearly intended a natural born citizen to be someone born of two citizen parents.
This is where Breitbart enters the picture. Birthers I know say he was killed because he had a video showing the document being planted, that there are other copies and someone just has to be brave enough. One guy says if he himself had the evidence he’d be dead. While the “faces” of birtherism might not be willing to name names, these regular guys behind the scenes do name names, such as Onaka. But of course these same guys just widen the net to include anybody and everybody necessary for the conspiracy to work. Needless to say their theory never breaks down for them; it just gets patched and repatched.
That’s crazy butteredzillion
I am glad someone has a good memory for this stuff. The best weapon against longwinded BS is a good memory.
Or those new Bose noise canceling headphones.
Doc , by posting up William wood I I ‘s ins note, I am assured by the time lag when we first came across the foia data and your typical thoroughness in such matters even offering his name now as a tag, that you have confirmed he Is among the long ago deceased. Bravo. Care to share the details of the obit listing a long and happy life as a public servant? My own research proved fruitless , but I,m just a hack with a tablet who wakes up early and likes to read.:) (most days you are fourth on the bookmark list!)
So I know the birthers will say the microfilm was swapped out too. That, plus these other questions of age discrepancies between records, is why birthers cry for a forensic examination. Throw in Tim Adams as a vague warning about the corruption of the department, and voila! Birther soufflé! The beauty of which is no mater how hard you slam the oven door, it never deflates!
Of course, this is merely the plot to Mission Impossible IV, without any evidence mind you, but is that what this particular point comes down to? Any other debunking possible? Or is it just at the point of saying provide evidence of a crime and then we’ll talk?
“We can’t prove there was a crime because you won’t let us examine the documents that prove there was a crime?” Never mind the American legal system, never mind we can’t forensically examine their birth documents to prove they are not themselves illegally pretending to be citizens.
One thing Birthers can’t deny is the family resemblance between Obama and his mother’s father.
Sorry, Bob. I have been told in no uncertain terms that he doesn’t look like his father, but looks like Frank Marshall Davis. They of course are following the b.s. from the last election which has been resurfacing. There are even side by side pictures where the writer claims it is obvious that Davis is the father and not Barack Sr. My jaw drops at that one. Yeah, classic blind something (don’t want to say the word).
Ah, you said “mother’s father.” Brain did not process. Notice coffee on desk. But I still wouldn’t put it past certain individuals to claim otherwise.
So? “They” could’ve searched the entire world for someone who looks a lot like the “original Barack Obama”. I remain steadfast in my theory that this would be the “most undebunable” conspiracy theory about Obama. It would not contradict the facts we learned being anti-birthers (BC is legit, Hawaii is not lying, Congress are not traitors, judges are not bought or threatened).
I mean, absent DNA tests, how *does* one prove he didn’t take somebody else’s identity 10 or 20 or 50 (for the elderly among us) years ago?
I agree. I always wondered why they chose a smear that could be debunked by looking at one sheet of paper in one archive. The John Kerry smear was based on his (supposed) feelings.
The moldy Fringe needs smarter smear merchants.
Speaking of butterdezillion, there was this interesting post at her site:
====================================================================
Tommy Thompson says:
May 29, 2012 at 2:13 am
Butter, Jerome Corsi just asked this question and I told him to contact you because you have done extensive research on this:
“Jerome Corsi
Last question — also very important — could someone have been born at Kapiolani Hospital in the same month and same year as Obama and ended up with a number that was some 500 lower than Obama — also a number that was six digits long, not five digits one? For instance 1961 009876 Is this type of a number possible.”
http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/
====================================================================
I have been wondering why Sheriff Arpaio never brought up the “out-of-sequence” certification numbers. That whole meme use to be very important to birthers and was considered the smoking gun proof of President Obama’s BC fraud. Now you almost never hear of it. Looks like Corsi is still struggling to figure it out.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Doc never claimed that William Wood is deceased.
However, if we assume that Mr. Wood was 30 years old in 1961, that would make him 80 or 81 years old today. If that assumption is close to correct, based upon actuarial tables it is highly likely that he is deceased.
If you want confirmation, I suggest that you file a Freedom of Information request with USCIS (formerly INS) and ask for Mr. Wood’s last known address and date of birth. When you get that information, come back here and post it and I will gladly track him down for you, dead or alive.
Ahhhhhhh Butterdezillion and the “heart-attack gun”, as I posted ot the FB…
The thing about cretins like Buteerbutt is they never ever think through their piles of cack.
Her current theory is that Potassium Chloride was used in a “heart attack gun” leaving some microscopic mark where the “needle” went in.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2884923/posts
And isn’t that what a potassium chloride dart would cause?
If so everything is as would be expected if it was a heart attack dart. The only way to know whether this was caused artificially rather than naturally is by seeing whether there was a small red spot where a dart went into his body.
So, lets look at the actual numbers shall we…..?
KCl, intravenous lethal dose 35 mg/Kg
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0300943277900620)
Breitbart weight at death 251 pound or 114 Kg
So, minima lethal dose…….114*35 = 3990 mg = 3.99g lets call it 4g for sake of argument
Right, we have the mimimum weight, so, how BIG is that amount of KCl…?
Density of KCl is 1.984 g/cubic cm = 2.02 cubic cm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride)
So, to off the ebil sack of poo we have to dump a mimimum of 2 cubic cents of stuff into his blood stream, we will for the sake of argument ignore HOW we dump all of it directly into his bloodstream without any apparent marks as if it hit muscle or fat etc he will take a long period of time to shuffle of this mortal coil.
Right we have some magical way of shooting the chemical into his bloodstream, leaving at most a “small red mark”…..
So that means a hole no more than 1 mm in diameter or else it won’t be a “small red mark” but a honking great tear. To be “shot” from the “heart attack gun”
with any possibility of penetrating it will have to be a cylinder or a cone in shape with the base no more than 1 mm in diameter.
http://www.online-calculators.co.uk/volumetric/conevolume.php
Well here’s a bit of a problem…..if we have a diameter of 1 mm and a volume of 2000 cubic mm then the cylinder is 20 cm long , just short of 8 inches long
It’s even worse with the cone, a cone with a base of 1mm dia would have to be 76 cm or 30 inches long.
Now, on top of that we have to somehow have some additional mechanism that will rapdily decellerate and then slowly push this Rod O’Death in to a vein (or artery) at a speed identical to the dissolution of the KCl or else we don’t have a pinpoint injection, we have a transection of said vessel with a couple of holes as it passes through the vessel at speed.
I could continue but leave the rest of the exercise as a challenge for the pupil…..
Maybe ButterButt needs to revist her theory
Excellent summary of the birher descent into madness, Doc!
I could only add the issue of motive, a necessary ingredient in any crime thriller.
(1) What would be the motive to organize a grand conspiracy in 1961? Answer: None. As I have already posted here several times (I don’t feel like looking for them again), the law provides and provided in 1961 several avenue for the child of a US citizen to gain citizenship, regardless of where they were born. Even if the famous 5 years residency after 14 prevented claiming birth citizenship, the law would have allowed a US citizen mother to bring her foreign-born child into the US and then apply for a Certificate of Citizenship once here. That would make the child a full US citizen, though perhaps (this is not 100% clear) not a natural born one. But the motivation to concoct a fraud in 1961 was zero.
(2) So, what would be the motive to do organize a grand conspiracy in 2008? Well, here there could be a motive (to run for President), but in addition to all the difficulties you have laid out, you would have the difficulties of the trail of a life lived up to 2008 claiming birth in Kenya and citizenship by another route. You would have a passport, SSN, driver’s licence and all the rest obtained under a Certificate of Citizenship, rather than a US birth certificate. So, there would be a whole number of records, federal, Illinois and probably other states where he lived, like New York and Massachusetts that would have to be altered as well.
Doc, you’ve got to get one of those “like” thingies for these type of posts!!
It is obvious that the birthers’ conspiracy only makes sense (I’m using the word very loosely) if you look at it in a science-fiction context involving both a secret invasion (Obama is really a Skrull impostor) and time travel (the Master went back in time to fix the birth certificate).
(Feel free to replace “Skrull” and “the Master” by other sci-fi tropes such as shapeshifters and Time Patrol or Paratime Police.)
For all we know the Warden of Alcatraz from 1963 might be behind it all.
Without relying on those, er, time-tested devices, I don’t think you can make it work.
Are you kidding ?!?! They deny it all the time on free republic.
When challenged on this denial with pictures, and very lightly challenged so as not to be called an obot by a fellow so called freeper, the person denying the resemblance says it doesn’t matter because Obama did not qualify and BIden is really POTUS. I’m not kidding…
If you’d like another marathon of stupid regarding Breitbart (and all sort of anicllary silliness), there’s a hopelessly pointless thread on the Amazon Forums as well.
For You Amusement: Obama had Breitbart killed
Started out as a spoof of the birther paranoia, but troll Hermitian in particular fell for it hard.
Hermitian has tossed out so many theories, I can’t list them here—or even remember them. What a nut.
That’s exactly why Joe Arpaio is never going to do anything legally.
He is not stupid enough to perjure himself.
Oh Lord. When he starting talking about there were no balloons or flowers outside the Starbucks where Btietbart died – no shrine, I had to stop reading. The nuttery was too much for my one cup of morning coffee.
Sweet and sour Jesus…I just read a few of the birther’s comments on that article and I’m damn near at a loss for words.
The William Wood statement was from the Christopher Allen FOIA, received by him in June of 2011. It was submitted to Judge Malihi in Atlanta, where Allen testified that the FOIA is what he received.
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/59560239?access_key=key-1kahun9pwrjtsrs94xqv
I don’t know who Wood is. He has a common name, and them middle initial is unclear (J, T?). It doesn’t seem a promising avenue for research. I suppose one could submit a FOIA, but those take years.
Perhaps they are saving it as “newly discovered evidence” for some future press conference.
At least 2,818 men named William Wood have died in the U.S. since 1961. I also found a record of William C. Wood II who died in California in 2010 at the age of 75, but the middle initial in the signature on the INS memo doesn’t look like a “C” to me.
Butterdezillion has a few times proffered this thery – that Obama’s “goons” managed to find EVERY COPY OF THAT PAPER IN THE WORLD in paper and microfiche and switched them all out…but in the process created such a crude forgery that she immediately detected it.
As usual, birthers expect the “reality” to be that the President and New World Order are immensely powerful, control all the courts, media, have such reach that they can replace every copy of a nearly 50 year old document in the world, as well as fabricate and entire history, family, and background. Everything is perfect…except their Forgery Department is staffed by kindergarteners that make only the crudest of forgeries that somehow no real experts can detect, only birthers.
While it certainly sounds like a butter type theory, I believe the author of that and also the Sunahara theory was ladysforest at myveryownpointofview. She is the one whose researcher original contacted the Sunaharas.
http://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/extra-extra-announcing-obamas-birth/wheres-sherlock-holmes-when-you-need-him/
“Mr. Chamberlain, in the court of history only your looks count, and I don’t like your looks.” – Forty Years On
You Blinded Her With Science!
Witness Protection Program?
“Witness Protection Program?”
correction
Witless Protection Program?
Can’t blow all the bread crumbs at once. You’ve got to be carefully taught. Cautiously, meticulously, ration them out, a strict diet of not to much, not too little ….
Drip.
Drip.
Drip.
Well, gotta fit that superiority complex somewhere in between the fear of the uncontrollable and the inability to accept other people’s decisions.
Another popular explanation for this apparent contradiction is “they did it on purpose to flip us off”. You know, like the “smiley face” or “TXE” or “Ukulele” (these are the reasons I still watch this show, I’ve never seen cranks that lunatically inventive before).
Or like the Vattelists – I mean, c’mon, if you were an almighty conspiracy, you wouldn’t choose an obviously ineligible candidate with a strange foreign name, would you? So their only way to reconcile this with reality is “they did it to show us (= the enlightened people) they can get away with anything”.
Witless protraction program.
The NWO/Build-A-Burger/Atheist/Muslim conspiracy planners are indeed so diabolically clever that they knew in 1961 that to get their life long groomed Manchurian candidate easily elected in 2008 they must pick a mixed race infant with an African father and an Arabic sounding name.
Meet the original ‘birther’ — Barack Obama!
(by Joe Farah)
Now there’s one not really worth reading, unless you’re a dedicated nut-watcher!
Josef tries to offload his King of Birthers title …. onto the Birfee-in-Chief. Oy! What a case of projection this Farah guy has!