Characterizing invisible evidence
I made a list last July of 34 things the Cold Case Posse hasn’t released or explained and included it in my article, “Waiting for Zullo.” The most prominent item on the unreleased evidence list is of course the Reed Hayes report.
What I would like to do now is make another list of the ways Zullo has characterized the evidence he won’t show. Here are the first three. Can you think of more?
The irrefutable nature of invisible evidence
The Cold Case Posse and Joe Arpaio used to be all about releasing the results of their investigation, with no fewer than three news conferences plus other group evidentiary presentations, seminars, even a book jointly authored by Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo. There were reports. There were videos.
How’d that work out for you Mike?
Cold Case Posse evidence fell apart under scrutiny and nobody, beyond birthers who will believe anything, saw anything persuasive in it—just the opposite. What we found was evidence of the incompetence of Zullo’s birther brand of brothers (AKA the Cold Case Posse). Folks like me enjoyed a killing field, a virtual orgy of debunking. In one case, with a fake race code table, Zullo demonstrated that he could be easily fooled by other birthers, and that he was willing to lie to try to prop it up. News coverage, such as it was, accurately described Posse claims as “long discredited.”
One commenter aptly pointed out that so long as the Cold Case Posse doesn’t release the evidence, it cannot be refuted, and that seems to be Zullo’s more-recent strategy, substituting claims about the strength of the evidence for the evidence itself, and stringing out supporters with ever-lengthening time frames for evidence to appear—March is the last target I’ve seen given.
The risk
The risk, however, is that Cold Case Posse supporters will get tired of being strung along. That pressure is bound to increase as time goes on and Obama inches towards the end of his term of office. Still birthers are an optimistic lot, undaunted by defeat, yet some cracks are showing, such as this from a prominent commenter at Birther Report:
Zullo must be dumber than I imagined.
That same commenter, however, expresses an irrational estimation of the state of anti-Obama activism , saying:
Wow – the O-Holes are certainly worried judging their comments on the last thread. And they have plenty of reason to worry.
I’m banned at Birther Report, so the comments referenced aren’t mine, but I cannot even begin to imagine what anti-birthers could possibly be worried about. Invisible evidence? 🙄
Yes, I believe Zullo’s magic show is beginning to falter. People are seeing the wires in his levitation act. They’re seeing the fake rabbit in his top hat. His tricks with marked cards no longer awe the gullible. And his used car sales tactics no longer close the deal on that custom Nash Rambler, previously used by a group called the Klown Kar Posse. Zullo the Magnificent has been exposed. Let the Birther feeding frenzy begin! Exit, stage right.
the fact that birfers have always been so easily mollified and strung along by the empty promises of such thinly masked hustlers only proves that having evidence is really beside the point of being a birfer.
The title of this article brings to mind how birthers, from time to time, compare Obama to “The Emperor’s new clothes”.
I don’t think they quite understand the story, as Obama is not the one being strung along by imaginary bull$^#@. They are.
In his recent interview with Gallups, Zullo attempts to explain why the CCP released info in the beginning but refuses to now.
He says all the earlier releases were of info that was already publicly known. Of course that calls into question if their early investigation was nothing more than a Googlefest with a heavy dose of Corsi-fed bull, but anyway… I’m pretty sure the MacGyvered date stamp was never mentioned publicly until the press conference.
Doc, in your piece on “The irrefutable nature of invisible evidence”, you list three types of such as claimed by Zullo:
1) Will … convince even the greatest skeptic
2) Universe-shattering
3) IronClad And Can Never Be Refuted
Of course, the expression “Universe-shattering” all by itself, applied to real life evidence, is an exercise in cartoonish law unenforcement. No serious or sane law officer would use such a term outside of a retirement home or a brothel.
And your piece’s title is just an elegant restating of the following phrase:
“The refutable nature of visible non-evidence”
Ironclad evidence:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nrg1/TheLastofanOldIroncladHMSResistance.jpg
alg
December 14, 2013
Ironclad evidence:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nrg1/TheLastofanOldIroncladHMSResistance.jpg
And quickly sinking…….
Zullo’s sooper seekrit VIP is the “The Ghost that Never Lies”…but only Zullo can see or hear him!
You can’t make this stuff up. (Or, at least, rational people can’t.)
And if you tried and submitted it as a story treatment you’d be laughed out of Hollywood because it’s too stupid……..even for a Steven Segal movie.
I believe Corsi’s stroll through Honolulu immigration forms was also new (and in the wrong city).
It’s interesting that this comment is current, because just today I was looking over my book review of the Cold Case Posse book that came out the day before the first press conference. That review notes that a couple of chapters in the book were cribbed from Jerome Corsi’s “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” Here’s that review for reference:
The review above shows a pathetic joke that has been foisted onto the public. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence could not believe a word coming from the CCCP and their Birther puppets.
Well, there’s always: Birthnado!
Wherein birth certificates rain from the sky causing all kinds of havoc, reams of paper clobbering people, papering over people, swallowing them in literal paperwork, turning them into paper mummies.
Wherein a classic scene from the movie Brazil is turned into an entire B-movie.
As a few stalwart citizens discover the shocking truth hidden in plain sight, that *everyone’s* birth certificate has been forged!
I expect March will blow out to, say, June.
Then we can notice the ‘reason’ for the delay… we’ll be in full election mode by then.
Zullo really needs to STFU. Almost everything he says provides evidence that he is full of shit. The interview with Verna Lee was new. At the news conference where Zullo first talked about the interview, he acted as if the name of the registrar had not been previously known, which of course is BS.
Karl Gall Oops!:”Okay, Listeners we’re back here with my Free Dumb Friday’s program on the Pee Pee Summons Rodeo Nutwork, and I’ve got the Dead-Case-Posse’s Universe-Shattering-Evidence designator, Rear-Admiral Mike Zoo Low on the phone here to update us on what yesterday’s horrific Pacific Ocean Earthquake and sinking of the Hawaiian Islands, means to the Obama Document Fraud Case! Now, obviously you never want to lose a suspect or an important witness, but is the silver lining here, Mike, that the Obama document forger is almost certainly among the almost million and a half odd dead? Am I right about that, Mike?”
Mike Zoo Low:”Well, sure, but Karl, there’s a human dimension associated with the disappearance of these islands, so first let me extend our sincere condolences to the families and friends of the resulting approximately 1,392,313 missing possible persons of interest to our investigation.”
Karl Gall Oops!:”Oh, Gosh, yes and you hate to say it, but they’re all presumed dead, am I right about that, Mike?”
Mike Zoo Low:”Yes, presumed DEAD, but as with all of our investigations, not INNOCENT! And while this earthquake does not make any of our current accusations against Obama ANY LESS provable, it does mean our investigation takes a big turn and refocuses on who is responsible for all of these deaths! Why didn’t these people get any warning? I mean, how many Hawaiians understood that their homes were on oceanic islands of volcanic origin? I didn’t.”
Karl Gall Oops!:”I see, Mike. So, a word to any Obots listening out there, the loss of everyone in Hawaii including those we were planning to call as witnesses, is a matter of no concern. And our focus has to shift now to exposing the biggest mass – what would you call it – ‘murderer’ really – in the history of our country! You KNOW the administration isn’t going to investigate that! So where do we start, as former officers of the Law? We want to be FAIR, don’t we, Mike?”
Mike Zoo Low:”That’s right, and so that we maintain our credibility as objective and impartial and criminal investigators, and don’t have the Obots accusing us of trying to pick on the President, we are stating now for the record that the purpose of this investigation is to first CLEAR of ALL CHARGES for the loss of life in Hawaii, if possible, any individual using the middle name, ‘Hussein.’ ”
Karl Gall Oops!:”Okay, Mike! And before I and our supporting listeners let you go, I seem to recall that, investigating 100’s of feet under water, that’s not cheap,- am I right about that, Mike”
Zullo said something to the effect that “we are going to do it differently this time”. Reading between the lines what he is saying is that by putting their BS out there in news conferences it allowed “us” (meaning all of us who know the CCP is a complete farce) to completely pick apart the evidence. That culminated with the fiasco aka the Second CCP Press Conference last July. Zullo is still smarting from that one.
I think Doc has captured the new strategy and the risks pretty well. Zullo is releasing none of this universe shattering new evidence and has set the earliest date for something to happen. This is after two or three rounds of “three to six months” and a complete pirouette from “this is not a criminal investigation we are taking this to Congress” back to “we don’t need Congress this is a criminal investigation” again.
At this point I would have to question the mental stability of anyone who believes a word of what comes out of Zullo and Gallups’ mouths. Are you listening James Y.?
That’ll keep the birthers going for a couple centuries.
That is certainly plausible (as much as it gets in the birther world) but I still wonder what is the end game…..for Zullo? For the others?
Where does Zullo go and how long can he maintain any momentum? Everyone else, it seems to me, is just along for the ride.
Thoughts?
Where does he go? He will simply fade further into obscurity and derision. Eventually his Birther cohorts will turn on him because he didn’t and couldn’t deliver on his promises that were built of a foundation of deception. He will be remembered as humorously quixotic. A new term will be generated to describe people who are gullible and easily suckered. They will be known as having been “zulloed.” Very soon, I predict “zulloed” will become a new entry in The 2014 Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Now there is a legacy. Don’t forget to turn out the lights at the CCCP.
I believe they do have what they consider to be irrefutable evidence. Something new. That doesn’t mean it is irrefutable, only that they think it is.
If I had to guess what it was, I would lean to the newspaper announcements. Other than the BC, they are the one piece of evidence cited by the media and Congress that sinks the birthers arguments every time.
IIRC they were offering $15000 for an actual newspaper copy, that’s a powerful incentive to create, I mean find a copy.
The money was offered by the Birther Summit as I recall.
Doc:
“I’m banned at Birther Report,…..”
Aren’t we all?
So you are suggesting that someone may have forged a fake 1961 newspaper and used it to defraud the Maricopa CCCP of their hard-earned birfer bux? That’s almost too good to be true—if they had perfect standing to take someone to court for fraud and forgery and all they would have to do to win would be to impeach their soopur-doopur ebidence and admit that President Obama’s birth announcements were legit. That would be hilarious!
I have to admit that their behavior does seem to indicate that they think they’ve got something new and this is the best theory as to what they might have that I’ve seen so far. I certainly hope it turns out to be correct.
That certainly is the way I see it going. I guess the better question would be…”Where does Zullo really think he’s going with all this?”
I looked and couldn’t find out the original source of the images we have seen. I suspect those papers are on microfilm in Honolulu somewhere.
Who came up with the images, does anyone know?
The question here seems to be: is Zullo stupid enough to believe this or is he just a grifter?
I don’t think you go wrong betting on Zullo’s stupidity—while he is clearly trying to grift birfer bux, he’s always seemed to be a true believer to me. I think there are visions of frogmarching (with him being the heroic frogmarcher) rather than a carefully calculated plan to get all the birfer bux he can.
I believe that there have been multiple microfilm sources obtained at various libraries. It would be interesting to know how many libraries keep microfilm records of old newspapers.
Stupid or grifter? Oh, to choose!!
Let’s make it easy: How about stupid grifter?
Good question. My guess is the answer is quite a few but what I’m interested in is the original source(s) of them in the context of this drama. Doc, do you know?
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. The choice is between “Stupid grifter” (i.e. a grifter who believes their own con) and “grifter”. Anyone who asks for money as much as Adjutant Field Martial Pro-Tem Zullo is clearly a grifter of some sort…
I think that LadyForest was one of the birthers that actually looked at the microfilm—you might try looking at her blog.
Indeed he is!
Here’s Doc’s writeup on the subject from April 2011:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/pen-spills-ink-makes-mess/
Nothing like job security?
I hear you RC. I do believe the birth certificate is a forgery and Zullo has the “Iron Clad” evidence. I can guess a few reasons why the BC is still a forgery not withstanding the Xerox evidence:
1. Zullo may have got someone to talk who may have released internal memos or documentation regarding a coverup to forge the BC.
2. Zullo has the Reed Hayes report – Because Reed Hayes is expert in handwriting, I suspect the focal point of the forgery deals with the signatures perhaps of the doctor’s or Dunham’s. Are they real or were they copied and pasted from a foreign source?
3. Zullo ultilizing computer forensic resources of the Maricopa County Sheriff Office has determined evidence of forgery – perhaps forensic software has found evidence of Photoshop being used on the BC.
IIRC there weren’t that many, only maybe 10 to 15, libraries that carried microfilm copies of the 1961 Honolulu newspapers.
That was one of the birthers points about switching out the microfilm rolls. And of coarse the master copy is controlled by individuals in on the conspiracy.
As deparate as they are how quickly would they readily accept as real a copy of the August, 1961 papers without President Obama’s name in it?
How big of bombshell would they consider it? Universe shattering?
I’m just speculating.
1. Well I can’t think of any reason to think it’s a forgery.
2. Since Hayes has no access to the originals, he wouldn’t be able to make a strong conclusion about handwriting. And besides, the Hayes report is nothing new, while the Posse is talking about new stuff.
3. If the Sheriff’s office had any forensic competence, it would have shown itself before now. Neal Krawetz is a major expert on forensic software and he’s already said the certificate looks OK. The Xerox experiment has proven that the long form is a scan, so there can’t be any Photoshop remnants in it.
I think you need a new theory.
The first one was first found by a blogger at the Texas Darlin blog (a birther blog at the time). The Honolulu Advertiser, one of the papers that carried the birth record published an article showing it’s record, I presume from its own copy. See:
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Nov/09/ln/hawaii811090361.html
“Not withstanding” meaning in this context, “ignoring because it makes everything that follows irrelevant.”
It’s probably worth noting at this point that Zullo has neither analyzed nor even seen the BC. All he has discussed is a PDF image of the BC, which we know cannot have been used to create other images of the BC which have been seen, so it is of no consequence whatsoever except in birthers’ fevered imaginations.
…since, if any of his analysis has anything to do with all the minutiae of the PDF, it is of no consequence whatsoever. In this case, we’d have to return to the fact that the state of Hawaii has confirmed that the information released about the particulars of the president’s birth are accurate. And again, that pesky Constitution, which you’re so willing to throw under the bus. I ask again: why is that? What is it that makes you hate this country? Other than the BGitWH, that is?
Neat trick. How’d he get the BC? Just to remind you, in case your attention span doesn’t extend as far back as the beginning of my comment: he’s only analyzed the PDF, which cannot be the source of other images of the BC that have been seen.
It’s always hard to think like a birther, but I can definitely believe that they would uncritically accept a vintage newspaper as real and believe that it was the smoking gun that proved everything they claim. It’s really too bad that they will never get the chance to prove their case in a court of law.
Thanks. That settles that in my mind.
Another dead end on the road to Birtherstan.
Birtherstan is all about the journey… in a land where all the roads are dead ends.
And “perhaps” you “may have” just made up all that crap.
You are indeed today’s man with no shame.
The problem is the roads are very long.
The most glaring one being
Because John reeeeeeeeaaaaaaallllllly needs it to be a forgery.
John is a racist troll.
John
“I hear you RC. I do believe the birth certificate is a forgery and Zullo has the “Iron Clad” evidence. I can guess a few reasons why the BC is still a forgery not withstanding the Xerox evidence:
1. Zullo may have got someone to talk who may have released internal memos or documentation regarding a coverup to forge the BC.
2. Zullo has the Reed Hayes report – Because Reed Hayes is expert in handwriting, I suspect the focal point of the forgery deals with the signatures perhaps of the doctor’s or Dunham’s. Are they real or were they copied and pasted from a foreign source?
3. Zullo ultilizing computer forensic resources of the Maricopa County Sheriff Office has determined evidence of forgery – perhaps forensic software has found evidence of Photoshop being used on the BC.”
All B.S.
What’s good for the goose is good for the ganderer.
The dear leader you’re relentlessly advocating for is pretty good at invisible evidence himself.
Zullo says it’s a forgery; you claim it’s not. Who knows?! All we’re left with is your dear leader hiding the evidence that will solve the case. Invisible.
For all the time you spend calling Zullo a liar you might consider your dear leader’s serial dishonesty in a few posts.
Oh, well. At least you’re not going to run out of conspiracies to debunk anytime soon:
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/12/13/the-93-skeletons-in-obamas-closet/
Happy Holidays.
What evidence is the President “hiding” that would “solve the case” to your satisfaction?
President Obama is a two-term President who will be in office until January 2017. And there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
Happy Holidays! 🙂
Who is advocating for him? Certainly not me. Of course you do realize that one doesn’t have to be an Obama supporter to oppose the sedition that is birtherism, right?
If you were paying any attention, you’d know that a number of anti-birthers do not care for the president at all, in much the same way that I think that Ted Cruz is an awful, awful human being and would make a terrible president — yet I’ll defend from here to, uh, way over there, his right to run.
What our Saturday evening troll doesn’t understand is that relentlessly advocating for the truth about Barack Obama is not the same thing as supporting him or his politics.
On the contrary, he has made the evidence available for all. That’s the difference. Zullo’s claims are based on an argument from ignorance.
Surely even you can appreciate the differences?
Why? What does your beliefs about how our President is dishonest have anything to do with the honesty of Zullo?
Man, logic is not your strongest suit, in fact, so far I am not very impressed by your claims and arguments.
Which makes you the perfect birther… And which makes our lives so much easier.
Off Topic’s web site is funny. Orly’s friend Neil Sankey shows up in the comments and he believes the shit is going to hit the fan….any…..day….now. LOL. And there’s an ad for Holocaust doubter Jeff Rense–another friend of Orly Taitz–who thinks Adolph Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy. And the guy’s Breitbart conspiracy theory looks like something straight out of Butterdezillion’s diseased brain.
The site has the usual wingnut bad grammar and punctuation, although it has a disturbing lack of eagles. All the best wingnut sites have eagles. This guy’s doesn’t.
Poor Neil, he will have to wait and wait… In the mean time he will get more and more angry over nothing… Look at Charles Kerchner or Sharon Rondeau for example who, I believe, are becoming totally obsessed with conspiracies and show less and less ability to look at the data, facts and evidence.
It’s just plain respect it is. As one might expect, he’s just not very keen on shattering the universe. Not for him, the Oppenheimer reflection “I am the destroyer of worlds.” He just seems very humbly to want proper, deserved credit for being able to shatter the universe (don’t think he couldn’t!), but without his heart really in it. He knows he personally can handle the truth, but also one would think he very well knows there are a lot of loose cannons out there, and apparently he just doesn’t want responsibility for the universe shattering chain reaction once such fissile minds get hold of this new potent, enriched evidence.
I wonder to the birthers even realize they have been waiting for the new evidence that’s universe shattering for the better part of a year now?
The “case” can never be solved because the investigators will not accept a negative result. Evidence really has no bearing on the question. Zullo is wrong because he has been proven to be both wrong and a liar.
And once a law enforcement officer’s credibility is broken (and Zullo is not a law enforcement officer, only a volunteer charity worker) his testimony and any developed, manufactured, invented, published or discovered evidence is absolutely suspect and worthless. Birthers are so stupid I can’t believe it!
First you say it’s “invisible”, then you say Zullo has declared something you say is invisible to be a forgery, and then you insist, again, that ‘it’s invisible.
Soooo … are you alleging that Zullo is making his declarations based on something he can’t see?
Meanwhile, Obama practices his magic act.
There’s nothing common sense about a bunch of holocaust deniers, birthers, 9/11 truthers getting together and having a circle jerk on air. Zullo has presented nothing to date that can get around the issuing authority verifying the information:
http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/faq-obama/
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/Obama-Verification.pdf
Ah yes, where there’s smoke, there fire* … in a liar’s pants. Here’s some simple math fer ya:
∞ quantity • 0 quality = jack freakin’ squat
______________________
* Or a Chauvet Fog Machine, take yer pick.
It might make a good story line for a Coen brothers movie, however. I picture Jeff Bridges reprising his role as Lebowski, who is erroneously fingered by Supreme Commander Lt. Zullo and must follow a trail of invisible evidence and silly clues to exonerate himself from false allegations of forgery, gun walking and Border Patrol drone incapacitation. The drug-addled dream sequence, complete with dancing pink underwear-clad jail inmates, would be a show stopper.
The Dude Abides.
That’s because Zullo tells three dimensional lies! it isn’t “universe shattering”, it isn’t “new”, and it isn’t “evidence”.
That’s what we in the business call unsubstantiated speculation.
It does not not excuse the alleged perp from producing the evidence that he’s innocent.
In America people are innocent until proven guilty. Why do you hate the Constitution?
Until the evidence is produced it’s not unreasonable for people to conclude he’s guilty and that’s why he’s hiding the evidence.
even a doctor of conspiracy can acknowledge that.
Yes, it is unreasonable to assume guilt. Our system assumes innocence.
Until YOUR evidence is produced, it is not unreasonable for people to conclude he’s INNOCENT.
Why do you harbor such hatrid for the Constitution and the American Way?
That is one of the biggest misunderstandings of the law. It is true – but only in a court of criminal law, not in the court of public opinion
Even if someone has been acquitted – don’t you think of Mr. Simpson or Mr. Zimmerman as murderers and call them so ?
That may be true, but accusations still carry no weight to rational, objective people until they are backed up with evidence.
Your assertion is contradictory. First you say that folks misunderstand the law, then you say they do understand the law.
Which is it?
The ‘court of public opinion’ has nothing to do with the law.
Well here’s the problem
You lot have produced your evidence, the rest of the world pointed out it proved diddly.
Then you lot produced more of your evidence, the rest of the world pointed out it proved diddly.
Then you lot produced more of your evidence, the rest of the world pointed out it proved diddly again.
Now you lot aren’t producing your evidence anymore, but you are just assuring us it’s fabulous just like the rest of your evidence which proved didly.
In the meantime Obama produced all the evidence to prove his eligibility. Twice.
But he could end this tomorrow by producing a certified copy of his long form birth cert, right?
The court of public opinion obviously overwhelmingly has ruled Obama is eligible – by voting for him twice (and even 99% of Romney voters did not vote for Romney because they thought Obama was ineligible), by not bothering to show up at any birther rally in the last 5 years etc.
Birthers are like Orly who files dozens of “motions for reconsideration” in cases that have been closed long ago. Their case has been heard and deemed crap.
Like true cranks, they are convinced that their sorry little lot are the only people who are “enlightened” and “literate” and “informed” enough to “understand”.
Where’s the evidence you didn’t kill your neighbour? The court of public opinion is awaiting your defense.
If he did, why would he tip the conspirators off by making such outlandish claims? Surely he’d know better how to protect the life of an important informant?
And handwriting expert would have no expertise in the “copy/paste” question because that is a pure digital issue. From looking at a scan, a handwriting expert will not be able to tell you if the signature was copy/pasted or stamped or handwritten (an important part of detecting forged signatures is looking at the pressure applied on different parts of the signature, impossible to do on a scan).
The “best” he could do is to say “this scan looks too identical to the signature on another document, so it’s possible one is a copy of the other”, but you can never rule a signature fake by claiming “it’s impossible for two signatures to overlay perfectly” – with people signing their name thousands of times in their life, it’s rather highly improbable this never happens.
Even if you disagree, it wouldn’t qualify as “universe-shattering” nor “convincing the greatest skeptic” because of what I just wrote.
Same as above. Even if Photoshop had somehow been involved in the processing of the PDF scan, it doesn’t prove forgery. The proverbial “greatest skeptic” would say “maybe they had to lighten up the scan because it was too dark”, and there goes your “100% proof of forgery”.
See, we’re not talking about birther levels of “convincing” here where it suffices to shout “layers mean forgery!”. Zullo was clearly talking about convincing the greatest skeptics among non-birthers. So that possibility is out the window, too.
There’s only a handful of things that would qualify for Zullo’s big claims:
1. An authentic Kenyan (or other foreign) birth certificate certified by the issuing authorities (not some “smuggled out” crap like Smith’s BC that no hospital or state will officially authenticate).
2. Someone with impeccable credentials testifying that and how he was directly involved in a forgery operation (that means not someone like Tim Adams who keeps referring to anonymous sources for his claims).
3. Someone unearthing a “lost” SCOTUS ruling that clearly states you need two citizen parents.
That’s all that I can think of right now. Anything else that comes to mind would maybe suffice for birthers to support their confirmation bias (e.g. “proof that Obama signed a greeting card as ‘Barry Soetoro’ when he was a student”) but would not “convince the greatest skeptic” that fraud/forgery occurred.
Remember, that’s an extremely high bar that Zullo/Gallups set. So anything that would just make you go “hmmm, that’s odd, maybe there *is* something to it, we need to look further” will not cut it.
It’s not unsubstantiated at all. Zullo has established a pattern of ignoring anything that backs up Obama. From the start he went to Jerome Corsi as his “head researcher”. He only uses birther sources he uses birther blogs for his research. He recycles claims from 6 months ago in the birther community. He goes on friendly radio shows with the same 3 hosts who coddle him. Zullo would never accept anything that wasn’t negative.
But, this is his convoluted way of “clearing the President,” don’t you know? It’s ALL Birther. It’s ALL political. It’s ALL for publicity for Shurf Joe. It’s ALL as fake as a three dollar bill. It ALL shows how easliy people can be manipulated.
In the real world, releasing a birth certificate on national television and showing it physically to reporters is not “hiding the evidence.”
Until you can get beyond this major flaw in your thinking, you are doomed to irrelevancy, and liable to ridicule.
No contest to that.
Off Topic is a perfect example of erroneous Birfer thinking, of not grasping how things work in America: nobody needs to prove innocence. Their accuser is required to prove guilt.
That’s Birfers’ kryptonite: they avoid at all costs admitting they have exactly zero evidence.
Actually, no.
I think of OJ as “probably a murderer”, because I haven’t done a thorough-enough evaluation of all the evidence to come to a conclusion “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Frankly, I don’t care enough to do so: it was a horrific tragedy for Wallace and her loved ones, but it doesn’t have a broad impact on society.
And I think of Zimmerman as “an angry, irresponsible asshole, probably racist, who (in the most likely scenario) decided to live out his vigilante fantasies, with tragic results”. If I knew what happened, I might have a very different opinion. But my best guess is that Martin thought he was being threatened, decided to resist, and Zimmerman escalated it fatally. That makes Zimmerman a “danegerous person”, who should have been convicted of manslaughter and lost his 2nd Amendment rights because he proved he couldn’t exercise them responsibly, but not a “murderer”.
But you also have to admit that they thought “they’ve got something” with the “African Anachronism”, the “Manual Coding Conflicts”, the “Mystery of the Layers”, the “Felonious Web Posting”, and every other idiotic bad guess they’ve made.
As I’m fond of pointing out, the CCP is so technically and legally incompetent they make Inspector Clouseau look like Sherlock Holmes. Their team mascot should be Bullwinkle J. Moose in tails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XPIa8weTgc
Not only is it “unreasonable”, it’s “unintelligent”, and even “un-American”.
It shows that birthers, as a group, aren’t just stupid, they’re downright evil, with large numbers of them demanding that we abolish the rule of law, and basic norms of human decency. It’s become routine for them to advocate kanagroo courts, a military coup, and even assassination. All based on “evidence” that would embarrass an 8-year-old trying to shift the blame for breaking the neighbor’s window.
I completely agree. I believe they think they have something—but it’s a foregone conclusion that they’ve deluded themselves.
Pursuant to the 5th Amendment of the Constitution, an “alleged perp” has no obligation to prove his innocence. In fact, he has no obligation to produce any evidence at all.
The burden of proof in this country is on the accuser. You birthers have had 5 1/2 years to prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii, and you’re no closer today than you were in 2008.
Why do you hate the Constitution?
In fact, it does: your inability to produce anything other than “unsubstantiated speculation” not only “excuse[s] the alleged perp”, it also gives him the moral right to accuse you of lying, and the legal right to sue you for libel and/or slander (depending on the medium in which the “speculation” was presented).
Are you writing from another country? Your understanding of American jurisprudence is exactly backward. What you’re describing here, and in multiple ways in multiple comments, is guilty until proven innocent. You’re saying that the burden of proof lies on the accused, not the accuser. This is the base assumption of kangaroo courts. “Here prove you’re innocent of whatever we decide you’re guilty of. Oh, and should you somehow manage to do so, we’ll just make up something else for you to defend yourself against and start over. Shall we begin?”
Here in America, the burden lies with the accuser, to prove a case against a defendant. If the accuser fails, the case is thrown out, the defendant need not bother to respond, as there is literally nothing of substance to respond to.
The problem with birthers is that they keep switching positions.
When you tell them the law and the courts are against them, they refer to the “court of public opinion” where “enough people still have doubts”.
When you point out how the “court of public opinion” has “ruled” against them in the elections, they croak “voting can’t change the law”.
They just don’t realize they’ve lost on all fronts.
But I saw Lizzie Proctor worshipping the devil!
Wow, you really do not understand how our legal system works. Why you have no respect for our Constitution and laws is beyond me.
And so far, our President has provided us with all the evidence that shows that the Cold case posse and birthers are ‘full of it’… But the birthers are unwilling to accept any evidence that shows his innocence as their minds have been closed…
Dr. Conspiracy December 16, 2013 at 9:29 am (Quote) #
“In the real world, releasing a birth certificate on national television and showing it physically to reporters is not “hiding the evidence.”
Until you can get beyond this major flaw in your thinking, you are doomed to irrelevancy, and liable to ridicule.”
—–
In the real world, offering a facsimile of evidence is not presenting evidence. It is hiding evidence.
Until doctors of conspiracy realize this, they are doomed to be thought of as simpletons, and will be disregarded.
seewamsayin??
Yes, I see what you are saying quite plainly: You are trying to evade the facts and raise a spurious claim.
First your remark is factually wrong. The actual certified copy from the State of Hawaii, stamped and sealed–not a “facsimile,” was shown to the press. They were able to handle it and photograph it. Later there was a televised press conference and a copy of it was posted on the White House web site.
And as further confirmation of what happened, the Hawaii Department of Health maintains a link to the White House web page where the certificate appears, and says of it:
Exactly who do you think the President is hiding his document from? The press is the representative of the population at large. No judicial or legislative body has said they wanted to see it.
I simply reject your “hiding” claim as meaningless propaganda.
Simpletons such as yourself who keep denying reality? The issuing authority has verified the document several times including to the Secretary of State of Arizona as well as to the court in Mississippi. The long form was presented to the press in 2011 where it was felt handled and photographed. Before that the official birth certificate that Hawaii currently uses was posted in 2008 where it was also handled and photographed by two independent organizations. The president is hiding nothing. Where were your complaints when Bill Clinton didn’t present his publicly or George W. Bush or Jimmy Carter, etc.
One can only hope so, because being disregarded by a birther is a g-dsend, and being called a simpleton by a birther is an honor. You are extremely kind to offer such well wishes!