The Cold Case Posse’s “Universe Shattering” Evidence
Opinion: By Brian Reilly To: Kevin Davidson, Dr. Conspiracy
Once again, America is being told by Birther news outlets that new, universe shattering evidence about the Obama investigation will be released by Commander Mike Zullo and his non-profit, all volunteer, Cold Case Posse in March, or possibly April or possibly May or, possibly never, depending on who the Birther spokesperson is for the day. Even if new evidence were released this month, the Cold Case Posse has cried wolf so many times, who really is going to listen, except hardcore, agenda driven Birthers?
But wait a minute…..Brian Reilly…..isn’t he a Birther? Why is he writing to Dr. Conspiracy??? I’m glad that you asked. I’ve been banned at many Birther websites, including Birther Report. Many Birther sites put my comments into an endless, black cavern of moderation with my comments never seeing the light of day or the courtesy of a reply or a posting. My comments don’t fit the Birther narrative. On one particularly nefarious Birther website I’ve read threats and defamatory statements directed toward me for simply speaking my opinion. Do these tactics sound familiar? I came to Dr. Conspiracy’s website because, I had no other choice. I believed that he would give me the freedom to write and publish my thoughts. I was right. I am grateful for Dr. Conspiracy’s courtesy.
Yes, Dr. Conspiracy has me listed on his Birthers A-Z list, but I have never considered myself a Birther. I simply had questions about President Obama’s birth certificate, based on the PDF I saw posted on April 27, 2011 on the White House website. Many wanted answers as did I. But no, I don’t consider myself a Birther. I enjoy looking into facts. I enjoy research. Many Birthers adamantly avoid facts that conflict with their political belief system. In fairness, I’ll offer a thumbnail sketch of myself. I have been involved in politics since I was 10 years old. I helped my dad campaign for Richard Nixon in 1960, and Barry Goldwater in 1964. My political views have been and remain conservative. I am a Christian. I’ve been an NRA member for decades. I’ve possessed a government issued carry permit continuously for three decades. I’m retired. I love Ford Mustangs. I didn’t vote for Barack Obama for President in 2008 or 2012. I have also lost my family healthcare insurance plan because of President Obama’s Affordable Care Act, often called “Obamacare.” So, please don’t misinterpret what I am about to write. I am not an Obama supporter or what Birthers call an “Obot.” However, many hardcore Birthers will interpret and spin this article according to their own political agenda.
My comments come from a very unique perspective.
As a Surprise Tea Party Patriots member, in July of 2011, I developed and initiated the plan to petition Sheriff Arpaio to investigate the authenticity of the Barack Obama PDF birth certificate. The plan was mine and mine alone. Dr. Jerome Corsi was just a part of my plan. My wife and I invited Dr. Corsi to present his findings to an August 17, 2011 meeting of the Surprise Tea Party to discuss his newly released book, “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” My wife, Denise and I paid for all of Dr. Corsi’s travel expenses. During our meeting we obtained 242 signatures on a petition that I had written to Sheriff Arpaio. I gave the presentation, requesting an investigation, focusing on the Arizona Revised Statutes, not eligibility, to Sheriff Arpaio and his command staff on August 18, 2011. (I had made the appointment with Arpaio weeks earlier.) Arpaio asked me to be the liaison between the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office (MCSO) and the Surprise Tea Party. The command staff was told that all evidence was to flow through me. (This would later become an issue with Dr. Taitz.) My wife Denise and I and three other Tea Party members were in attendance along with Dr. Corsi with his evidence book that was said to contain the names of 20 alleged experts (I counted only 12). The “experts” included Doug Vogt, Paul Irey and Mara Zebest among others. Mike Zullo was never in attendance at our August 18, 2011 meeting with Sheriff Arpaio or the one-on-one meeting that I had alone with Sheriff Arpaio on August 22, 2011 when I presented a formal letter from the Surprise Tea Party, written by Dr. Corsi and edited by myself, requesting the investigation. Contrary to what Zullo has stated, he did not have any direct personal knowledge of the August 18, 2011 meeting events that he discussed in point #1 of his most recent Alabama Supreme Court affidavit. In Zullo’s November 9, 2012, affidavit , review his statement in item #3. Mike Zullo first made contact with me on September 15, 2011 by phone, almost a month after the original Arpaio meeting. Zullo told me that Arpaio had requested that Zullo inform me that the Cold Case Posse would investigate the birth certificate “with the utmost diligence.”
Denise and I also developed the plan for the very successful March 31, 2012, Cold Case Posse press conference at the Church on the Green in Sun City West, Arizona. The event was planned to replicate the March 1, 2012 Arpaio / Zullo press conference that Denise and I had attended. I wrote the petition for the project and made all of the arrangements with the parties involved. We obtained, I believe, nearly 3,100 signatures for the Arizona legislature and Arizona Secretary of State, Ken Bennett. Contrary to Mike Volin’s “impeccable” research and website notations, the Surprise Tea Party founders had nothing to do with the planning and development of the Church on the Green event. They were absent from the event, choosing to attend a swim meet.
On April 17, 2012, at the direct request of Commander Mike Zullo, I was sworn into the Cold Case Posse by Sheriff Arpaio on the 19th floor of the Wells Fargo Building in downtown Phoenix. (I had been doing volunteer research as a private citizen for Zullo from September 2011 until I became a Cold Case Posse member on April 17, 2012.) I was chosen by Zullo over 3,000 existing Posse members. I was given a cased, investigators flat badge, a 2003 unmarked Crown Vic police cruiser, Arizona license number G-669EG, the first “G” indicating a government plate, and a county gas key was also provided. Sheriff Arpaio suggested “Colonel” to Mike Zullo as my title. (I let that pass as it reminded me of Colonel Sanders and his Kentucky fried chicken.) I participated in interviews, I traveled in 8 states and I did research. I actually interviewed one of Doug Vogt’s prime suspects for the alleged forgery, and the person wasn’t in Hawaii. I also interviewed a person who went to school with Barack Obama at Occidental College.
I worked with Dr. Jerome Corsi, Commander Mike Zullo and Sheriff Joe Arpaio until June 30, 2012 at which time I chose to resign and I hung up my spurs. There was too much potential liability working as a volunteer. The MCSO policies were far too sporadically applied by my superior for my liking. Posse members were subject to possible criminal prosecution if a badge was displayed without proper authority. (Posse members are not law enforcement officers.) Risk management was always a question. (Would they cover you or not?) Too many restrictions on political activities. Too many uncertainties. Zullo refused to process my written resignation for 10 days, sending me several emails asking me to reconsider my resignation and he asked me to make sure my decision wasn’t a “knee jerk” decision. It really wouldn’t look good for Zullo to have the guy who came up with the investigation idea and then became part of the Cold Case Posse to pull up stakes, pack his tent and resign. So, Zullo and / or his Birther buddies planted the story that I was let go. That I was “disgruntled.” Add their comments to “The Many Lies of Mike Zullo and Carl Gallups” Facebook page. (It should be noted that Cold Case Posse members regularly monitor and make posts on various Birther and anti-Birther websites.)
I also resigned because my faith in Commander Zullo and the “investigation” had totally collapsed. Here are but a few examples of why I lost faith :
It was shocking to watch Zullo verbally unload on Corsi in the MCSO conference room in front of Arpaio. Corsi had made a video report from Hawaii on the Internet without Zullo’s knowledge or approval during Zullo’s first Hawaii trip. I’ll never forget Zullo screaming at Corsi, Zullo’s freaky, bulging red eyes, and Arpaio asking me to do something about the conflict. Corsi sat at the conference table looking at his laptop sheepishly saying, “I’m fired…I’m fired.” At one point, Corsi didn’t want to be left alone in the same room with Zullo and Corsi accompanied me out to the parking garage to find his glasses on top of the patrol car. It was a memorable Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde moment in the conference room. ( My next stop at the hospital ER for stress was just around the corner.)
- Alex Jones interview with Jerome Corsi (May 20, 2012)
- Alex Jones interview with Jerome Corsi (May 24, 2012)
Then there was the must have, June 22, 2012 article in the GLOBE entitled “Busted!“. I got a frantic call from Commander Zullo telling me to look for the new edition of the supermarket tabloid, the GLOBE. Zullo excitedly told me an arrest had been made! He told me the GLOBE had a picture on the cover of a man handcuffed with a coat over his head and he was being accompanied by a government plainclothes police official. My assignment (should I choose to accept) was to find the GLOBE to determine which federal agency had made the arrest in the Obama birth certificate forgery case. (The picture was a staged photo, kind of like the famous tabloid picture of the WWII, B-17 bomber found parked on the moon.) Zullo had forgotten that he had been interviewed by the GLOBE and the article was about Zullo interviewing the prime forgery suspect in Hawaii. The GLOBE reported: “Now the Posse’s lead investigator Mike Zullo tells GLOBE in a blockbuster exclusive his team has interviewed the “person of interest” they’re convinced pulled off the forgery.” Zullo forgot? How does one forget that they’ve been interviewed by the GLOBE? How did Zullo forget the article was about his interview with the prime forgery suspect? There was no arrest made by federal authorities, or anyone else for that matter. There was no B-17 found on the moon either. (My resignation was getting closer by the day.)
Another memorable event happened in April of 2012 while we were in Stanley Ann Dunham’s neighborhood on Mercer Island in the state of Washington. Denise and I remember this vividly. I accompanied Zullo as a private citizen to back him up. ( I still had a valid Washington permit to carry. Zullo couldn’t legally carry concealed in Washington. Remember, he’s not a real cop. ) We were in Washington to follow up on some leads. We were sitting in the black GMC rental vehicle when Zullo suddenly told us that we needed to turn off our cell-phones and put them in the vehicle glove box. We quickly complied. He shut the glove box door. Suddenly, Commander Zullo began to tell us in a seriously hushed tone how Lord Monckton said that he could arrange to have British Intelligence, MI-6 give the Cold Case Posse investigators protection. Denise and I sat in stunned disbelief. Zullo told us how Lord Monckton had met with Arpaio. Monckton, we were told, requested that he be given the birth certificate investigation along with all of the CCP evidence. We were told that the Brits wanted Hillary Clinton in place of Barack Obama. Our impression was, Zullo believed what he was saying. He was dead serious. Once my wife and I got back to our motel room and closed the door, we looked at each other in total disbelief, and wondered, did that really happen? Is he really that gullible?
And how about a black & white episode of “Car 54 Where Are You?” Zullo had lost his patrol car in the Wells Fargo parking garage. Zullo and I had spent another long day at the Sheriff’s Office on the 19th floor of the Wells Fargo building. It was about 5 pm and about 110 degrees in the shade and Commander Zullo couldn’t find his parked patrol car. We walked up and down, floor after floor in the unbearable heat for nearly 20 minutes. Then we got into my patrol car to continue the search until I finally found Zullo’s car. I suggested that Zullo should park his car in the same spot so that he could find his car. I drove away thinking, how in the world would Zullo ever find the birth certificate forgery suspect? My confidence level dropped another notch.
Then there was the alleged threat against Sheriff Arpaio. One of Zullo’s Surprise Tea Party puppets supposedly had a DVD that allegedly contained a threat against Sheriff Arpaio. Zullo told me to “Check it out.” Mind you, I was told the Surprise Tea Party puppet had this information for weeks. (A real sense of urgency?) I contacted the person and asked for the information. The Surprise Tea Party puppet complained, and Zullo angrily asked me why I contacted the informant? I told Zullo, because he had told me to “Check it out.” and there was an alleged threat against Sheriff Arpaio. Zullo replied that he didn’t “give a sh*t “ about a threat against Arpaio. Really? I never got a chance to talk with Sheriff Arpaio about this. Maybe he’ll read this and he’ll have some serious questions for his Cold Case Posse Commander. (This was the final event that caused me to seriously rethink my association with Mike Zullo and the Cold Case Posse. I turned in my written resignation.)
The May 22, 2012, Obama, Hawaii Verification of Birth sent to Arizona Secretary of State, Ken Bennett was, for me the undoing of the investigation. The final nail in the coffin. The pin that popped the balloon. The coup de grace. For months, Sheriff Arpaio and Zullo said they only wanted to “clear the President.” Well, the certified Verification of Birth cleared the President confirming all of the information on the PDF copy of the Obama birth certificate. Obama was born in Hawaii. He’s an American citizen. He’s President of the United States. And Secretary Ken Bennett placed Obama on the 2012 Arizona ballot. The Obama Verification of Birth blows item #4 of one of Zullo’s, many revised, affidavits out of the water. Consider this from his November 9, 2012 affidavit:
Zullo affirmed the petitioners’ position: “4. If the image of the birth certificate were not genuine the question might arise whether Mr. Obama had been born within the jurisdiction of the United States and thereby complied with the requirement under Article II of the U.S. Constitution that the President be a “natural born citizen” (Zullo Affidavit on Obama Birth Certificate 11-9-2012).
The Hawaii Verification of Birth verifies that Barack Obama was born within the jurisdiction of the United States and, according to Mr. Zullo’s own November 9, 2012 affidavit, Mr. Obama is therefore a “natural born citizen.”
Game. Set. Match.
So what is the point ? We’ve been told there is universe shattering information soon to be released, any day now, by the Cold Case Posse and Carl Gallups, et al. Go back to the paragraph above. “Game. Set. Match.” It’s over, except possibly the release of a second Zullo / Cold Case Posse book. (Zullo told me that he wanted to write a book and make a film about the investigation during our trip to Washington. A film producer in Colorado requested that I do a documentary film about the investigation, but I told him I wasn’t in this to make money and I refused his offer. Zullo and Corsi forged ahead and published a book.) Maybe a second book will explain why I, as a Cold Case Posse member, and the public were never told that Sheriff Arpaio had spoken with Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery in 2012 and reviewed the evidence accumulated by the Cold Case Posse. Montgomery wrote to me on September 26, 2012 that he had “discussed [the investigation] with the Sheriff.” Montgomery characterized the evidence of forgery as “speculation.” Montgomery went on to say, “Specifically, we would need evidence to affirmatively prove that Mr. Obama is not a US citizen.” The Hawaii Verification of Birth, certifies that Obama was born in Hawaii and he is therefore a US citizen. This is one of the reasons why no criminal complaint was ever filed, nor will be filed by Sheriff Arpaio, in my opinion.
-
Maricopa County Attorney’s Office Reply – Birther Report
There is no universe shattering evidence. The investigation was supposed to be over after the November 2012, general election. But, if Zullo’s and Gallups’ universe shattering information just happens to be about an American WWII, Boeing B-17 bomber found parked overtime on the surface of the moon, please take the information with a grain of salt. I can assure you that it’s not true. But, for the conspiracy inclined, one should take pause for just a moment and consider this mysterious connection. President Obama’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, worked for Boeing!!! And, Wichita…is really not too far from the moon in the world of Birthers.
It’s time to end the lunacy.
Regards,
Brian Reilly
Afterword by Dr. Conspiracy:
Mr. Reilly contacted me a week or so ago saying that he had a story to tell, but that Birther Report and other sites had banned him. He obviously had something he wanted to get off his chest, so I told him that I occasionally publish guest articles and offered to host his and this article is what he sent me this afternoon. I didn’t know what he was going to say beforehand–I had no input. Except for reformatting the hyperlinks and correcting a couple of minor typos, what precedes including the title is exactly what he sent.
Subsequent to the publication of the article, I removed Brian Reilly from “Birthers from A to Z” list.
Dear Mr Reilly,
You can end this lunacy. You’ve given time and $$$ to this sham investigation, you’ve been harmed. It is time for you to locate an attorney and file a complaint. Please, before these scam artists take any more money from your fellow tea partiers.
A citizen concerned about the scamming of retirees
Wow!
Thank you Mr. Reilly for pulling the curtain back and exposing the foolishness.
Doc,
Will Mr. Reilly be available to answer questions either on the blog or through you?
While I don’t support John Reilly’s political views, I welcome him to this site. I vividly recall how the commenters at BirtherReport, especially the bird-boy of birtherstan, reacted to his apostasy when he began to criticize Mike Zullo. After reading Reilly’s article, it’s abundantly clear that those at the top of the birther movement are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land, and that the level of lunacy between a chief spokesman like Mike Zullo, and a frantic wannabe like Nancy Owens, is a difference of degree, not kind.
Wow. Thank you, Mr. Reilly. You can bet your last dollar that you’ll hear from the birther sites now, eh?
I don’t know. He’s been invited.
Brian Reilly…. I presume.
One might think that; however, the Cold Case Posse’s MO has been to ignore criticism, or to say it is of no concern. If they address it, I would expect to see a wave of character assassination directed at Mr. Reilly. I don’t think this is going to be pretty.
John Reilly is a frequent visitor here, Brian Reilly is the author of the above. Those common names jumble so easily (says Man With Three Common Names)
I, too, thank Mr. Reilly for the time and the tale. Very entertaining! For any doubters, there is plenty of online corroboration of Mr. Reilly’s tale … search for “brian reilly surprise tea party” or “brian reilly cold case posse”, etc …. and he comments online under his own name.
Also, I am not far from Wichita, and have customers there. If there’s anything to eyeball up there—for instance, if the birfers decide Obama has found creative uses for abandoned, WWII-era defense plants, or allege nefarious activities at the original Pizza Hut—I’ll happily volunteer to explore and document 😉
His message prompts lots of questions.
Would you prefer we post them on the blog or compile them and send them to you so you can organize them?
Doc C., you earned this one by your diligent years of scholarship, honesty, and reasonable treatment of all involved on both sides. Congratulations to you, sir. That’s a wonderful scoop.
It’s so ironic, too. For the past six or eight months, Falcon and others at Birther Report have been trying to pretend that R.C. ratted us out. Falcon went so far as to claim he’d traced R.C.’s phone numbers and identified him, but when called on it, he simply hid from his own claim.
Now there really has been someone who ratted on the others, and it was one of them, not one of us. I assume that Mr. Reilly is going to face some blowback on this, from Zullo and Gallups if not the Surprise Tea Party itself.
Wow. Whoa, Nellie!
Yes, sorry: Brian Reilly.
You’re right, it will get ugly.
But as is usually the case with these sorts of oozing sores exposure to the light of day is the best medicine.
At some point the sheriff and the county are going to have to acknowledge and deal with the use of county resources. How many $35,000 Crown Vic Police Interceptors are assigned to posse members (not just members of the cold case posse) and what other public property are these civilians using for the benefit of their non-profit, non-sworn organizations?
I would invite my Reilly to come on Reality Check Radio if he would be so inclined.
The same thing happens to people who leave cults.
Mr. Reilly, if you are available to answer questions, what inferences would you make from the contrast between how Zullo conducts himself and how Dr. C. conducts himself? And in the contrast between the access he has given you here, and the cold shoulder you’ve got from birther sites?
I certainly do appreciate your candor, but how do you reconcile your participation in the Cold Case Posse, with “a 2003 unmarked Crown Vic police cruiser, Arizona license number G-669EG, the first “G” indicating a government plate, and a county gas key” with Arpaio’s assertions that the Cold Case Posse investigation (and I do find it difficult to refer to it as such without qualification–do you think it unfair to impugn the validity of the enterprise?) would be accomplished at no expense to the taxpayer?
Do you think it’s unfair that people would think you brought the county government into a purely partisan political matter, especially considering the participation, from the beginning, of Jerome Corsi? Do you understand how people could see you as a pawn being pushed around in what amounted to little more than a publicity stunt?
Now having asked those pointed questions, let me say that I not only appreciate your candor, I admire it; and I admire the honesty and objectivity with which you accept the verifications of the President’s birth records. That’s big of you, and my hat’s off to you for it.
And I salute the good humor with which you concluded. You might find yourself in good company here.
Karl Gall Oops!:”Once again, Listeners, I’ve got the CCP chief investigator, Grand Rear Vice Seaman Mike Zoo Low on the phone and if I understand him, he’s getting awfully hungry as we anticipate the big Universe-shattering announcement about his separate Obama criminal investigation which has, well YES, I’m gonna say, marginalized the GREATEST CRIME in the HISTORY of OUR COUNTRY, the FORGED Obama birth certificate. Can you hear me Mike?”
Seaman Zoo Low: ”Yeah, Karl. I’ve gotten too weak to yell – , I’m still stuck – it’s been 5 days now – inside a paper bag here that I can’t investigate my way out of.”
Karl Gall Oops!:”We hear you, Mike, and CONGRATULATIONS! Let’s immediately reassure folks that your big March or next millennium announcement will INDEED be covered by major, major, major, major, major, major, major, major, major, major, major media, major media, mage-mage-mede-mede major media! With a mage-in-the mede and a mede in the mage , major, major, major media!”
Zoo Low: ”Forget that, this investigation is suffocating me! Why have I been carrying this Sheriff’s Kit around with me for two years? What’s in it? There’s sure not a CO2 detector in it! I can’t breathe!”
Karl Gall Oops!:”Mike! Mike? I’ve got Mike Violin on the other line – he says the CO2 detector is actually the eyes of Jefferson Davis there on the front of your cardboard badge – they change from green to red if the CO2 level could make you brain-dead.”
Zoo Low: ”Oh no! One of them’s red already! Karl! I’m losing it here! Call 911 for me quick! I’m at…..” CLICK
Karl Gall Oops!:”ALL RIGHT! That was Mike Zoo Low listeners, and he’s being called away! Too soon, I might add. But he asked me to tell you about an item you will all need to protect the Constitution from Obama, it’s our new Sheriff’s Kaboodle Kit, and it’s chock full of scents-off coupons you can use to buy any of the 472 books I’ve written about totally unrelated subjects!”
I don’t think they were that expensive new, but maybe with all the added equipment like light bars and computers.
The new Ford Police Interceptor Utility (Explorer based) is about $32K. The Taurus-based Police Interceptor Sedan is about $29K.
Yeah, I know, JPlotter. Jeez, you make one mistake with a guys name and it’s, “Look! There’s Arthur the name mangler!” (winking emoticon added to illustrate I’m trying to be funny)
This doesn’t sound like Brian Reailly, especially after listening to him on the Mike Violin show. It seems Reilly doesn’t mention anything about meeting with Donald Trump where Trump has received sources the fake birth certificate was coming down the pike. Can Doc even provide proof this came from Brian Reilly or is the Obot’s latest attempt to discredit Zullo and CCP.
That was awesome, Brian. It will be copied to the Many Lies page.
I find hard to believe the Brian Really would swallow the Arizona verification. The vertification is wholly unrealiable. What’s Brian’s opinion on the Reed Hayes report?
Brian story’s flies in the face of the fact that nearly all persons involved in the birther movement (Who not labeled at Obots) don’t believe Obama is a NBC because of his lacking citizen parents. (Only Phil Berg doesn’t latch on this)
I doubt this was a marked unit but depending on the comm package it could easily have gone way over $30k.
But that’s not the point: The issue is the use of county property by non-employees. As Mr. Reilly noted in his message he became concerned about liability and indemnification while he traveled around in a county car with a badge that didn’t confer any powers or authority.
Posse members have always had a problem. They were not granted any kind of legal status when the legislature created what is now POST as were volunteer reserve deputies and officers who, once they are certified, have police powers and are treated as employees…..covered by their employer for liability and injury on the job.
Given that Reilly resigned from the Cold Case Posse a year before the Reed Hayes report was mentioned, it is unlikely that he has seen it. Have you?
Gary Kreep doesn’t by your crank theory either.
This may appear to be a hoax. Brian Reilly would never reach out to Doc C. Brian is sure to be contacted. Will he fess up or prove this to be the latest hoax by the Obots. This information in the story just seems too inconsistant for any person who involved in the birther movement who not FOGBOW Obot.
Yes, that’s true. He’s the only other person I can think of. Every other person who isn’t a fogbow obot doesn’t believe Obama is a NBC. (I say believe and convincing the courts 2 different things.)
Really “John”? The phantom report that has never been seen? And likely never will be? Still hanging your hat on that?
Brings to mind the famous quote ” I read it on the Internet, so it has to be true. You can’t put anything on the Internet that isn’t true.”
Timeto move on, and get a clue. You’ve been had.
Simply amazing.
I am certain that this came from the real Brian Reilly. We exchanged emails, meaning that he received and replied to emails I sent him. The email address is one which appears on numerous Internet postings by Reilly over a period of years.
Mr. Reilly,
I’ve never seen a birther re-emerge after going this far down the rabbit hole before. It speaks well of you that you were ultimately able to accept facts that contradicted your beliefs about President Obama being ineligible. It looks like the only thing in danger of shattering this month is the reputation of the Cold Case Posse.
I can tell that John is having a bad day. Zullo is his hero.
I would suggest posting comments here. He’ll see them and reply as he chooses. I don’t want to play mysterious, but there are some things he says he wants to keep off the record, and I respect that, and I hope other folks will understand as well.
Doc will provide all the email headers for proof. I still have trouble buying the story. No one who isn’t a fogbow obot would say the following – “Obama was born in Hawaii. He’s an American citizen.” You also have to consider Brian’s take on the Indonesian citizenship stuff.
Do you know Brian Reilly?
Okay. Nothing mysterious and I understand what he wants to do. He has already performed a valuable service with this message. I’ll work on a few questions and we’ll see how they go.
I have followed the birther obsession since it’s inception, mostly via Free Republic (by far the most entertaining site).
Given the grandeur of Gallup and Zullows’ promises regarding “universe shattering” revelations it appears to me that most probably the Arpaio investigation is headed into Jim Garrison territory: a series of mentally ill informants who have inside information. Perry Russo, et. al.
The only question is the individual to be designated as the CCP’s Clay Shaw.
No one needs to waste their time trying to discredit Zullo or the Cold Case Posse. They taking care of that task quite nicely on their own.
And how would you validate an email header?
Fortunately for everybody involved, Arpaio is a sheriff, not a prosecutor.
Probably about the same as his opinion of B-17’s on the moon. Same difference.
Here’s a song to cheer him up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo&feature=kp
You’re really flailing today, john. No…..Doc doesn’t have to provide anything and even if he did you’d just dream up a reason not to believe them.
You can bet Brian will be contacted. Will Doc C get caught perpruating a hoax. I do believe this very well may be a hoax. No person even remotely connected to the CCP investigation (unless they are Fogbow) would contact Doc C for help. And certainly Brian would never want this information to go public. Is Brian really that stupid????
John, only a few birthers believe the two citizen parent bs. Every court that has ever broached the subjects says you are wrong. So it is not only the members of the fogbow that don’t believe it, it is the entire court system, every lawyer that i have spoken to, and the vast majority of Americans. Birtherism is done.
He tried that and lost a couple people their law licenses.
The only thing Obots have done to discredit Zullo is to point out his lies, prevarications, missteps. It’s never been necessary to manufacture material to discredit him–he does it all by himself.
CapsLock! The end is near!!
audit the CCP.
You know, I don’t really believe you think this is a hoax. Put the keyboard aside and think for a while.
He knows it isn’t a hoax. That’s why he is so panicked.
John, I find it interesting that you choose to attack Doc instead of the letter from Mr Reilly. Are you conceding the letter is an accurate description of CCP Krazy Kops and not a real investigation? Can you prove the letter didn’t come from Mr Reilly?
Yeah, well, you also believe birtherism is true, so . . .
Ah, the famous verification of a the birth certificate confirms that the birh certificate is valid and authenticated!
And Bustamante lll had a certified copy of a California Birth Certificate that was a fraud from the start, and yet it would be verified as being on record and the information matched what was on the request for verification.
And all of those fake documents would have the same result as no notary or agent is ever responsible for verifying that the information on the document is legally sufficient, or valid, but can only attest to the signatures on the documents.
It is exactly like Brien Reilly posting, only Reilly can verify that the information he posted is accurate in all respectsl
No reader of the document posted today that all of the informelation is correct, but you may beleive it or not.
By the way, Police interceptors cost about 26k two years ago in California, but that information does not make Reilly’s posting erroneous.
All evidence is subject to rebuttal, unless you don’t want to rebut it!
Looking objectively at what Mr. Reilly wrote, I don’t see this as damning to the Cold Case Posse as some of the responses suggest.
It reinforces things we already knew: Zullo was not law enforcement; Zullo had a county car: Corsi was up to his eyeballs in the thing. What was new was the Zullo had a nasty temper and that he made some stupid mistakes.
In one sense, the article is good for the Posse, in that it documents that they were trying to investigate something, that they actually talked to a witness who wasn’t a birther. That’s a startling revelation.
The damning thing is that an objective observer in the middle of it all thought the investigation reached the wrong conclusion. Zullo tells the birthers that they have all this super evidence that they haven’t disclosed and Brian Reilly puts the lie to that.
Look for layers, of course! 😉
Well, we all know how that thinking thing works out for you.
The existence of fraud somewhere does not constitute impeachment of a document somewhere else. Yours is a common birther fallacy which lets you write off evidence without actually engaging it.
Kudos to Dr. C. for letting the birther Reilly publish his rationalization for instigating a frivolous and costly taxpayer-funded political witch-hunt – based on his extremist, fundamentalist political and religious beliefs – that our first black president should be branded an “illegal alien” by our country’s most racist and bellicose county sheriff.
“I’m not a birther; I’m just asking questions.”
Mr. Reilly, kudos to you for your apparent honesty. Obviously the other birthers with whom you conspired to smear our duly-elected, natural born American citizen president, Barack Hussein Obama, through the election cycle, are at best untrustworthy and dishonest.
As your American brother, I’d advise that you take this skepticism and direct it towards your tea party colleagues, and ask – as you did of the “Cold Case Posse” – “Are these ideologues telling me the truth? Do they have my best interests at heart? Or are they totally bullshitting and using me for their own personal and financial agendas, like General Zullo did?”
Question: Do you know of a single cold case that the Cold Case Posse has actually investigated, and/or helped to solve?
I expect you will reimburse Maricopa County for the taxpayer money you helped the sheriff to misappropriate by using the car and credit card(s) during the fake investigation?
As a devout Tea Partyer – surely you wouldn’t support taking these funds from the citizens to advance your own politics, right?
The information sounds contrived and just doesn’t sound like something Brian Reilly would say. Doesn’t sound right. Sounds like something Doc C and people of Fogbow would create in their effort to discredit the CCP. What’s Brian’s take on Loretta Fuddy’s death?
Only if this real and not a hoax? Provide the proof Doc C. Are you trying to push the latest hoax to discredit the CCP?
As best I understand, the only way to validate mail headers is by viewing the mail logs from the servers that handled the message. John doesn’t have access to those, meaning he couldn’t validate a header if he had it. I could probably get the mail logs on my end, but then John could just say I faked them. And even if he had the headers and validate them, he couldn’t validate the content of the email.
No, I know were the never-ending demands for proof lead. Nowhere.
I don’t think they were that expensive new, but maybe with all the added equipment like light bars and computers.
The new Ford Police Interceptor Utility (Explorer based) is about $32K. The Taurus-based Police Interceptor Sedan is about $29K.
A lot of used Crown Vics end up for sale at auction. Taxi fleets often buy these up, and there’s even a Mobil 1 commercial showing someone converting a used police car to a yellow taxi. I’ve even seen a few used by private security companies. It lends an air of credibility since most recognize them as something real cops would drive. When I see some old fart driving one, I usually think it’s a police car before I notice there are no police or taxi markings.
Doc, have Brian upload his letter of resignation. I’d like to see it and read it.
Shorter john:
“This does not comport with what I believe; I shall therefore impugn the integrity of the messenger, regardless of the facts.”
So typical. So hilarious.
I think that if you only hear one side of the story (including the lies), the birther position looks pretty good. I mean, open up the president’s birth certificate–YOU CAN MOVE STUFF AROUND! Corsi and crew are skilled propagandists and if you don’t have the right skills, you can be fooled. That’s what propaganda is for.
I don’t criticize someone for becoming a birther, but I will for not listening when the evidence is presented to them.
Doc could end this controversy tomorrow by simply providing a certified copy of the long form email header.
Seriously, thanks Mr Reilly, an entertaining and informative read.
One of the things that jumped out at me was this;
” (It should be noted that Cold Case Posse members regularly monitor and make posts on various Birther and anti-Birther websites.)”
What serious police investication has as its job reading and posting on websites? What possible application could a website have on an investication into a 50 year old birth, or a 3 year old computer image. And even if you pull some reason for that out of your hat, for what possible reason would they be posting?
John, on this side we ask for things. Birthers make demands. It is up to Brian if he wants to post the letter of resignation. Unlike birthers we respect people’s privacy
John, ask Mr Reilly to provide you with the letter, if he wants to he will, it proves nothing, but whatever.
Who cares how much the Crown Victoria cost. The point is that it was county property, insured and maintained with county funds and fueled with a county gas key. Arpaio and zullo have misused county property in a political stunt.
Like many dogmatic, hardcore birthers, it has become his religion.
Mr. Reilly, Thank You!!!
That was a most informative and real feeling response.
I can respect(usually) someone who honestly stands up for what they believe, but it takes real integrity to admit having been wrong.
I would like to see more response from you and your take on what has been going on, as you were in a unique position to see what was happening almost from the start.
The only question I would have at this time would be, did Zullo and the MCCCP ever really do any serious investigation, or was it merely a matter of copying what someone else had done, or simply taking what they said as gospel? Other than a couple of field trips, I still don’t see that Zullo et al ever did anything, but troll on the internet, and they didn’t seem to do that too well.
if Doc C wants to convince us that this is the truth, then Brian Reilly must appear on Reality Check Radio with RC and tell all.
Everyone who isn’t a birther would say that. Which is the majority of Americans. Only the small minority of the fringe of the fringe believe Obama isn’t american or born here.
The cost isn’t the issue. The problem is the misuse of county equipment.
What a racist drive-by troll wants and what a racist drive-by troll gets are often two very different things.
Having delusions of plurality again?
Excellent piece!
The birthers over at BR are demanding that Doc prove Reilly actually wrote it.
Seems to me according to birther logic it’s their duty to prove he didn’t write it. Not the other way around 😀
Okay….here are some questions for Mr. Reilly:
1 – How many members are there on the Cold Case Posse?
2 – How many were actively involved in the Obama investigation?
3 – Did the posse investigate any other cold cases that you are aware of?
4 – Who maintained the case files on the Obama investigation?
5 – Was a MCSO DR (case) number assigned to the investigation?
6 – How were your out-of-pocket travel expenses paid or reimbursed?
Thanks.
Boy, John sure is panicking! This really hit him like a ton of bricks, and now he’s flipping the crap out! Watching a birther meltdown, as it happens, is popcorn worthy!
It is a dead-bang certainty that, when Reilly confirms that he indeed wrote the letter, the racist drive-by troll “john” will move the goalposts. The method of goalpost-moving is less certain, but my money is on “they bought him off” to win, and “he was an Obot all along” and “that’s not the real Reilly” to place and show, in either order.
I don’t think that’s going to cut it, john. Anyone could fake Reilly’s voice. I’m thinking Skype……with retina scanning identification….so we can be absolutely sure.
You left out “He was threatened” or “was an Obot all along”, but I see where you’re going with this Bonsall, and I agree wholeheartedly. John is such a miserable little turd. I doubt he could ever be expected to be a man and admit he’s mistaken.
I think have the same thing that just happend to Orly Taitz a few weeks ago, where Orly received an email from Gallup (HE DENIED) telling to here stand down and drop all lawsuits. It was yet another effort by the Obots to discredit the CCP. This tactic by Doc C. is playing on that same strategy.
In fact, I included the latter. One could make a case that the former is a subset of “bought off,” but your point is taken, Andrew.
Even if Kim Joe-il came out and announced that the “posse” investigation was merely a political stunt, “john”, james – whatever, would demand to see why there are so many layers in the geezer sheriff’s shorts, and analyze Arpaio’s rusty flatulence, before he’d be swayed.
One thing’s for sure, I’m truly sick of seeing right wingernuts who wouldn’t tell the truth if their lives depended on it, impugn the integrity of good, credible journalists like Doc C., who has earned all of our respect.
And what Napoleon Arturo Bustamante had was a California delayed registration of birth, apparently obtained as an adult on the sole basis of a baptismal certificate which investigation subsequently proved to be fraudulent. That’s a whole different kettle of fish anyway. Exactly what would a state-issued verification of a delayed registration say?
The Ninth Circuit certainly didn’t impute fraud to the verification of a birth record for Mr. Bustamante from the Philippines– even upon the subsequent disclosure, many years later, that the record no longer existed– based upon the fraudulent delayed registration of birth.
And for what it’s worth, impeaching the document didn’t have anything to do with a forensic examination of the actual piece of paper, either.
Yes, john is pushing the envelope this afternoon. He should be ashamed of himself.
I’m not beyond having a little fun at birther expense, including the occasional sock puppet at Orly’s blog, but I would not ever impersonate a real person in order to deceive.
By the way, Reilly said some of the same things at Orly’s site that he said here. 😯
The problem with ratting us out is that there isn’t anything to rat. Obots are just plain nice people.
Well Doc, you better hope Brian Reilly says “your” letter is true?
Not me. I’m horrible. But that’s irrelevant to the matter at hand.
I seem to recall an exchange during a visit here by Mr. Reilly a year or so ago. That Reilly seemed to be struggling to find a motive for Arpaio’s behaviour. He was resisting the idea that Arpaio might have been hoodwinking the Surprise Tea Party constituents for his own political survival.
It would appear that he has seen the light, albeit reluctantly.
Congratulations Mr. Reilly.
I never had any doubts about who I was dealing with based on the content of the emails, and I didn’t check the email address until today. While I was satisfied myself, I couldn’t say to someone else that the article was authentic if I hadn’t checked it, so before I commented on the authenticity of the story, I verified the email address.
When I was writing an earlier response to John about proving it was the real Brian Reilly, I was going to say that I ran a background check on him, playing with Zullo’s claim that they did a background check on everybody who supplied them with information, before they would accept the information.
In this case it was true in a sense. To check the email address, I entered it in a search engine and ended up on a web site called “Deep background check” which did list Reilly and his email address.
A couple of big differences:
Doc C. runs a reputable, truth-based blog, and works strictly under old-school journalistic rules of ethics which require that he verify his sources, and only print the truth.
Orly Taitz runs a hyper-partisan propaganda site whose goal is to throw as much mud as possible to stir up nationalistic and populist fervor, and she does her best NOT to verify her sources. In fact, she states this deliberate strategy at the very top of her blog. Orly Taitz has a history of NEVER verifying her sources – even if the result is that she files a completely pranked Kenyan birth certificate in a real court of law.
It was more important for Orly Taitz to pretend to believe that the [obvious] hoax email was from Lyin’ Carl Gallups, on behalf of the con artist Zullo, so she could viciously attack them publicly, before she had to admit that it was all false.
Or maybe Carl Gallups sent it to discredit Orly Taitz, then denied it after the fact when she didn’t do what they asked.
No one has ever proven Gallups didn’t send it; do you have evidence?
John is so freaked out, he is posting the same exact things (grammatical mistakes and all) on the Many Lies of Mike Zullo and Carl Gallups Facebook Page.
Someone a little agitated there, Sparky?
Well, Brian Reilly could be a double agent, planting the story with me, intending to deny it later to discredit me.
Wheels within wheels.
One of things that leads me to believe that this maybe a hoax, is the following line written by Brian Reilly:
“Obama was born in Hawaii. He’s an American citizen. He’s President of the United States.”
Any person with interest in the birther movement knows Obama’s citizenship is highly dispute (Unless you are anti-birther or someone who is going along for the ride (Congress for instance))
Not withstanding the any notion that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii, one still has these problems to consider:
NBC argument
Indonesian Citizenship problem
SSN problem.
I am curious if in fact this letter was written by Brian Reilly, why he would write this. I would love to know his position in these areas.
I for one don’t believe Obama is NBC. However, this a personal belief. I don’t believe you can ever convince the courts because of faulty SCOTUS precedent (Wong Kim Ark and so on) Only SCOTUS could remedy and that’s never going to happen.
If this article was not written by Brian Reilly I suspect we will hear from Brian Reilly very soon. It has gone viral this afternoon in the tiny world of Birthers and Anti-birthers. I will make certain that Mike Zullo knows about the article.
Are you going to call him on his secret shoe phone?
Divorce can be really nasty. Who gets custody of the forgery?
Doc: This post will probably get mainstream media attention. I don’t think that the title is very intuitive to people who aren’t into birther minutia. Although I like the alliteration, most people have no idea what “banned birther” or “BR” refer to. Something straightforward like “Former Arpaio Posse Member Breaks Silence on Birther Investigation” would be a lot more friendly to the non-birther and non-obot readers who will find their way to this blog over the next couple of days.
This is false. His citizenship has never been in dispute. Only the craziest of crazy birthers claim he’s not a citizen. Most birthers believe he was some magic special class of American citizen that doesn’t exist in US law.
There is no NBC argument. One born a citizen is a natural born citizen.
There is no indonesian citizenship problem. No birthers has been able to prove he ever actually legally became an Indonesian citizen. There is no legal documentation showing he naturalized as an indonesian citizen. Even if he did it wouldn’t have affected his American citizenship.
There is no SSN problem. He was legally assigned a social security number by the SSA in 1977.
Hear that? That’s the sound of rapidly-moving goalposts. Well done, racist drive-by troll!
It is of no concern. It is of no concern. It is no concern. I is no concern. It nnow con earn. It is of nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn–Daisy, Daisy, Give me your answer do? I’m half crazy, All for the love of you!
Maybe. Tee -hee-hee.
There are 25 visitors on the site right now (15 on this page). The Google analytics real-time data is fascinating. I can see a map of the country where the hits are coming from (most from the southern half of the US), as well as the sites linking in. I see one referring hit from Birther Report, one from Fogbow, one from Twitter and two from Facebook.
Well Doc, if nothing else you’ve certainly shattered John’s little universe.
I agree with Bonsall Obot—we’re not necessarily nice and I’m sure some of us lie occasionally, we just aren’t the conspirators and habitual liars which birthers need us to be in order to validate their theories. They can’t admit that there is even a single honest obot without pulling at a thread which could unravel their entire argument.
I emailed Mitch at Arizonaspolitics.com the link too.
Wow, you stick your head out from under the pile of crap you sleep in. This MUST be shattering the birther universe.
I’ve already made sure that Carl Gallups and Sharon Rondeau and Mike Volin know about it. Birther Report already knows about it.
I love john’s threat: You better hope Brian Reilly confirms he wrote this, Doc.
Otherwise … otherwise … umm … otherwise birthers aren’t going to like you any more!
Heh, heh.
For the record, john, nobody at Birther Report thinks it’s a hoax. Of all the birthers all across this great land of ours, you’re the only one who’s so pathetically upset and whining about this that you’re imagining Doc C. played a hoax. This has been really hard on you, I know that. Poor you! My heart bleeds purple peanut butter for poor, poor you!
“us”- using the royal ‘we’?
I don’t know about everyone else- I am just amused by this- I am neither convinced, nor do i expect to see any evidence.
Yes, I heard it! It was the sound of a great disturbance in Delusionville, as if millions of birthers suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
Bryan – Just wanted to say ‘Thanks’ and that I know this must have been tough for you. This ‘Birther’ nonsense is what it is — Nonsense. How these people live their lives consumed by hate – I don’t know. I too did not vote for Pres. Obama but he is our President and CIC. I have respect for that office regardless who is voted in and he was voted in. It is what it is. Dr. C, Foggy, RC and others have shown extreme patience with the ‘Birthers’ that it rivals that of Job —
That was a good laugh. Thank you.
Isn’t Arizona disproportionately represented among your visitors, Doc?
The referring link hit from Fogbow is probably me. I clicked a link there to come here to this blog entry.
Not if “one” is a rational person.
Maybe Mitch over at the Arizona’s Politics blog can do some digging on this. Phoenix media could really have a heyday with this info if they were so inclined. It’s truly mind boggling to think this utter nonsense is going on in the Marciopa Sheriff’s Office. It would be comical if it wasn’t for the fact that this fuels ugly hatred towards our President.
There have been repeated claims of falsehoods coming from the CCP, Zullo and Gallups that have been proven to be lies yet none that have come from Doctor Conspiracy’s site has been proven to be anything but the truth.
You always have lots of claims to make but never answer questions. In fact, you run from them and ignore them repeatedly. Zullo and the CCP have made how many claims of breaking news over the last 2 years and yet not a damn thing has been revealed…why is that, John? When has Doc C ever lied about anything??? Never!
No, they think that Brian Reilly is a traitor and they’re plotting to damage his reputation. Here’s an exchange between birther-bird and Joe Mannix (Mannix, I think, is connected to Zullo).
Joe Mannix:
The former Cold Case Posse member that used to post here known as Brian Reilly has been outed as a obot informer and Dr. Conspiracy confidante.
★FALCON★
If Birther Report gives me the OK and I’ll post why Brian Reilly was not allowed back on the CCP after begging for his position back.
Joe Mannix ·
Ok thanks Falcon. I had made a long post earlier here (about 40 minutes ago) on what Reilly sent to Davidsons website where he published it.I’ll just sit back and wait till you get the OK. I figured there was something wrong with Reilly from the beginning.
Over at BirtherReport, bird-boy and others are plotting to try to damage Brian Reilly’s reputation.
Damn. Looks like they’re going with my second-place bet, “Obot all along.” I was sure they’d accuse him of being bought off.
With ALINSKYITE SOROS MONEY.
Not to answer for Mr. Reilly, but when trying to research any activity by the CCP prior to the birth certificate investigation I was unable to find any evidence that they had ever investigated any cold case. I did however find two references to them.
One was by a woman claiming proudly to have been the CCP’s “official psychic,” and another to the Sherrif’s office selling a number of old Crown Victorias to the Posse at a sale price of $1, each. The latter suggests that the cars driven by Zullo and Reilly were no longer resources owned by the MCSO.
The gas key is a different matter.
lol so now they’re going to claim that Reilly was an obot spy from the beginning from his initiating things with Arpaio with the Surprise Tea Party up until now. For what purpose exactly?
Its fun watching Falcon and company squirm! 🙂
I suggest that Mr. Reilly is the only one who can make that decision. Not Doc C.
Pretty much says it all. Thank you Mr. Reilly for shining a bright light on the Keystone Cops of the so-called Cold Case Posse.
Poor Doc….holding his tongue at BR for Lent! 😆
That’s interesting. Though the plate number he mentioned is a non-revenue, non-expiring government plate that I can’t imagine a non-profit charity qualifying for…..but, who knows?
Next question would be who is paying the insurance?
For the record, Doc convinced me when he posted the damn thing after FIVE SOLID YEARS of impeccable integrity in all his other posts.
As for those who will never be convinced, I applaud the Doc’s wisdom in not even trying. It’s the only sensible choice. If he’s lying or been hoaxed, you’d have your answer already. In fact, you DO have your answer already. You just don’t like it. But that’s a chronic condition with you, isn’t it, racist drive-by troll?
Actually I think it was pretty smart. Let them stew in their own juices. It looks to me like it’s the regular cast of characters throwing their predictable fits.
“Welcome to Westworld, where nothing can go wrong…go wrong…go wrong…”
If so, it’s not just a single effort, but a campaign! He’s been making expressions of disgruntlement for some time.
Hmmm, good question. As the CCCP continues to fall apart under the pressure of the inevitable endgame, who will wind up in possession of their records? The ‘results’ of all of their ‘tests’? Their notes? Their receipts?
My take from Reilly’s account is that (shock) the magnitude of the CCCP failure is all Zullo’s fault. He didn’t know when to quit. He took things farther than Reilly ever wanted, then Arpaio ever would have bothered with, and much farther than the more experienced hands at WND would have.
WND is built on playing out these narratives, and they know when to drop a dead end: when it no longer serves a purpose, when the risk of further escalation outweighs the possible gains. Being lower key, they can carry these gambits farther than, say, FOX, but even they had to call it quits after the 2012 election. Zullo kept going, kept promising, kept building expectations. When he blurted out ‘March’ he had to pick a date not too far, but not too close. The danger in committing to specifics is that those being duped will hold the shill to those specifics. Once too many promises are broken, they’ll drift away (as many have), but the truly suckered will hand on, and eventually turn in anger.
What I appreciate about Reilly’s narrative is explaining how the Corsi – Arpaio link was made. That publicity hounds Farah and Arpaio would wind up in a symbiosis seemed inevitable, what with their politics and needs being so neatly aligned. WND was stuck in late 2011, needing some LE entity to take up the LFBC/fraud meme. But to engage, Arpaio needed the cover of a cry from his constituents. I had wondered if Corsi had shopped around for a group to serve as his entré to Arpaio, or if the Surprise Tea Party had actually sought out Corsi. I guess it’s better that it was the latter.
Also surprising is the description here that Zullo is not a cynical shyster, but rather a complete loon. I wonder if that’s accurate? There does seem to be some resentment on Reilly’s part toward Zullo for having butted in and taken over, and taking the effort ever farther out on a limb, despite justification for doing so consistently failing to appear.
Well, he may be missing a chance to weigh in on this, but he’s also saved from their obsessing over him. Some nasty stuff over their today. Even a speculation that Doc is really a front for Joe Biden LOL
And, as always, the story should be about the material, not the messenger. And, in this case, Doc is just eh messenger’s messenger 😉
Orly also doesn’t buy it. She called Minor v. Happersett only dicta and not binding.
Mr. Reilly,. can you please tell me where the money for the Crown Victorias issued to those particularly investigating Barack Obama’s birth certificate and where the money to cover the office space expenses for the same come from? Does the money to cover these items come from donations or is it coming out of MCSO coffers? How many posse members are issued vehicles out of MCSO (tax paid) funding? How much office space is being used? If it is coming out of MCSO coffers, perhaps you should contact a journalist at the Arizona Republic and discuss this with them. Thank you. I don’t agree with your politics, but I certain respect your desire to get the truth out about your situation.
My take on this article is that what is new is not that Zullo is a con artist and a liar. We all knew that. He is also certifiably nuts. To think he called Foggy mentally ill is now ironic.
Mr. Reilly:
Please tell us:
– To which eight states did you travel? Did you travel alone, with Zullo, or with other “posse” members? How did you travel? Was there an expense account?
– Who were the other posse members, and what were their [fake] titles? Was Arpaio planning on calling Zullo “General”, since he was promoting you to “Colonel”? Why did Zullo pick “Lieutenant”?
– Did Zullo work out of the MCSO luxury office complex on the 19th floor of the Wells Fargo building?
– Do you know why Zullo only traveled to Hawai’i over extended holidays?
– And what was the purpose of visiting Occidental if the “investigation” was focused on “document fraud”?
– Was there ever mention of which, if any, [actual] Maricopa County ordinance was allegedly violated to prompt an investigation? If yes, please cite the ordinance.
Thank you for your forthrighteousness.
I had no advance information about when Brian would send his article, but it could hardly have been better timing with respect to me and my hiatus from Birther Report. That worked out in so many ways! BR is the last place I need to be right now, and probably the first place I would have been.
Exactly! Maricopa County taxpayers on the whole didn’t ask to pay for this stupid investigation.
This also puts in somewhat better context the falling out that Zullo and Corsi clearly had, resulting in Zullo’s effort to distance himself from Corsi in the Alabama affidavit and Corsi’s sudden abandoment of birthing. Birther blogger Ladyforest had suggested that the falling out had to do with the fake coding evidence that served as the centerpiece of the 2nd CCP press conference. That Zullo was also furious over Corsi’s appearances on Alex Jones only adds to the delicious details of the break.
I got an email from Brian Reilly and what I get from it is that he is decompressing right now, and hasn’t read many of the comments yet.
Mr. Reilly,
– What’s your take on the African Race issue on the birth certificate.
– What’s your opinion on the fact that Hawaii Failed to verify that birth certificate represented a legal and accurate representation of what they have in their files. Only that the information “matched”.
– What’s your opinion on the fact that Date of Birth on the Arizona verification was not verified even though every other item was. it appears that SOS Bennett Mysteriously “forgot” to ask Hawaii to confirm the Date of Birth.
Did you see my new quote of the day?
“… Dr. consparacy is a fake he is not the guy in the picture he has not been blogging sense 1995 he made everything up in 2008 the true #1 first disinformation agent to hit the web in Obamas defense. He is a fraud just like Obama…”
I don’t know who this Jared Dent is, but he’s got a serious complex about you, Doc, over at B.R. Do you have background on this guy and why he’s obsessing about you?
So, who made the decision to allow county taxpayers to eat resale costs so that these posse members could have cheap cars? Was this something county taxpayers were informed about? I live in Maricopa County and I never saw anything about it.
Everyone else is asking for FACTS. You are asking for OPINIONS.
Opinions don’t hold up in a court of law.
I didn’t notice it here (sorry!), but I saw it at BR many, many times. This JDD nut is continuously spamming that board with essentially two identical replies to anything and everything, saying that whoever you really are invented OCT and BlogOrDie! in 2008, after Obama took office (he means 2009, details, details). Really peeving the natives over there!
Yeah, I have been playing over there, was tempted to crow about this latest development … but it’s so delicious to let that unfold organically.
Mannix (Some believe is a close associate to Zullo) says on BR:
As I had figured all along. Former disgruntled Cold Case Posse member and turncoat Brian Reilly who used to post here is confirmed a mole for the obots. He has decided to side with Dr. Conspiracy himself and try to derail Mike Zullo and Arpaio’s new revealings coming up. Now I will warn you, there is no actual proof that Brian Reilly wrote this desperate hit piece against Mike Zullo and his investigation.This could be all Dr. Conspiracy’s doing since he has been here the last few weeks in a panic posting excessively due to the upcoming release by the MCSO. What Kevin Davidson needs to do is show actual proof Brian Reilly wanted to post his story at his website in order to set the record straight. If he can’t confirm any of this then it’s another sign of desperate obfuscation.
Let’s see some proof Doc C.
What proof?
How about Brian Reilly’s Resignation Letter? That would be nice.
I would also like to see Brian Reilly be a guest on RC radio so Brian Reilly himself could confirm all of this.
Gee, I don’t what it takes to convince you that a recorded document, whether notarized, or asserted to, can not be authenticated by the notary or by the state agency.
They can only state, verify, or attested to the fact that a document signature has been witnessed and the identiy of the signer has be established.
that is all that anyone who does not prepare a document can do!
Opinions is all he has to hold close to his heart as he cries himself to sleep every night.
See also
And other postings by him on the same page
http://whub39.webhostinghub.com/~obamab6/obamaballotchallenge.com/obama-is-100-red-white-blue-american-born/
Poor John, his world has collapsed once again…
Okay, but if we presume that this was indeed a surplus vehicle sold to the Cold Case Posse, then what’s that government plate doing on it?
From Mr. Reilly’s descriptions of Zullo throwing a fit, it sounds like there’s another Downfall video waiting to happen.
None of the 3 things you’ve said is true. There is no African Race issue.
The department of health did verify the document as matching what they have in their vault. Meaning this matches the original from 1961
Everything on the document was verified John. Did you bother to read the full verification?
Yes, and who paid for the registration of that plate and the insurance and upkeep as well as the Gas Key?
Of course he didn’t, his birther tears were flowing too fast. He couldn’t get through it and since there was no opinion that Obama was a foreign usurper in the first paragraph, he lost interest quickly.
Brian: Thanks for this article, it’s good to see. I still have to take issue with your alleged passing interest, for-the-heck-of-it desire to see this President’s birth history proven to you, but anyhoo. Thanks for the story behind all of this whole CCP situation.
Haha, so funny to see John spin spin spin 😀 I think he wants to see the email headers to check for layers.
Unless you attend the Board of Supervisors meeting every time they meet, and then ask for the documents that they are voting on, you will never know anything about what they are doing when they approve the consent calender.
And not too a many people will do that!
Do you not mean that everything that the applicant for the verifications supplied and wanted verified was verified as being on the document.
They do not verify the information, they simply verify that the requested information is on the document.
And they do not refer to the original document, but simply to the document on record.
At least that is what the verification is supposed to do.
Another question I have, who paid for the car rental(s) while out of state?
I’m hoping Mr. Reilly will be willing and able to shed some light on the Cold Case Posse’s operations since we don’t have access to the sort of information the others make public when they file their annual IRS 990’s.
Here, for everyone’s review, are the most recent reports from the Sun City and Sun City West posses. Click on the green “Dowload” button in each page to see the 990:
http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/510178773
http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/860370287
In both cases you will note that the posses have significant assets, their own buildings and when you get into the details of the reports you will see that they pay their own expenses…..like gasoline for their patrol cars, etc.
I think it’s time for the Cold Case Posse to make its finances public.
I searched again, and here is what I found. These are the minutes from the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors meeting from April 23. 2008.
http://www.maricopa.gov/Clk_Board/Minutes/2008/042308fb.pdf
You will find the sale on the top of Page 11. And my memory was faulty. It looks like it was $1 for both cars, not each.
Brian Reilly is silent on the Selective Service Forgery.
Did you miss the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0jzGYkrFg
If you actually imagine that anyone in half of their right mind, let alone Mr. Kevin Davidson who runs this blog, would mount a hoax by publishing a fake letter from someone when that actual person is around to easily and completely debunk such a hoax, then you’re an idiot.
Falcon is in top form:
“Joe – Brian Reilly is a total embarrassment to himself, his family and his country. I believe he did conjure up that ridiculous idiotic post to Crunt. He has an axe to grind since Zullo stole his glory. And make no mistake – it was Reilly who thought he was going to arrest Obama and pose for the photo-ops and answer questions from his adoring media.
He’s a dreamer. ”
That, of course, is a possibility. Having read the article, I doubt it’s the case, but it’s a possibility.
“These vehicles will be used by posse volunteers for prisoner transports
and off duty jail wagon details.” – according to Mr. Reilly, that isn’t what these vehicles are being used for at all.
Very strange. Here is what it says:
These vehicles will be used by posse volunteers for prisoner transports and off duty jail wagon details.
It doesn’t make sense: Why would the Cold Case Posse be doing prisoner transports and what the hell is an “off duty jail wagon detail”?
For those who doubt Mr. Reilly’s sincerity or the authenticity of the above piece (read: john), and really for anyone else, I’d like to point out a rather nice piece of debunking that Brian did last July, on a subject that most people, neither Obot nor Birther, much questioned: the claim that Andrew Breitbart spoke with Sheriff Arpaio on the night before he died.
http://arizonafreedomalliance.ning.com/profiles/blogs/debunking-the-andrew-breitbart-sheriff-joe-arpaio-urban-legend
It was a minor detail, first cited by Jerome Corsi, and no one really bothered to dispute the *existence* of a mere phone call. After all, Corsi mentioned it at the MCCP press conference in March 2012, with Arpaio just a few feet away, and Arpaio didn’t dispute then that the conversation happened. But based on a telephone call Mr. Reilly received during his time with the MCCP, and some followup interviews, he ultimately found that there NEVER WAS a last-night conversation between Breitbart and Arpaio. For all intents and purposes, Corsi basically made it up, by massively stretching the actual truth (which was that Arpaio had spoken to an associate of a freelance journalist who occasionally contributed to Breitbart.com).
This was Mr. Reilly’s conclusion:
“[Breitbart’s] legacy deserves a more fitting, final tribute than this very questionable, lingering, urban legend. By all accounts, Andrew Breitbart never spoke with Sheriff Joe Arpaio at 5:00 P.M., Wednesday, February 29, 2012.”
Yep. Quite surprisingly, March has yielded some universe-shattering news after all.
🙂 🙂 🙂 😉
Yeah, because the only way the sheriff is held accountable for funding is BEFORE it’s spent, not after… UNLESS an investigation is performed. If you think there is no recourse for mishandling of taxpayer funds, you’re insane (oh, but I think we already proved that point already!)
Probably because this “forgery” only exists in the fever dreams of birthers like you, john.
Brian Reilly is silent on Bigfoot, Chupacabras and the Lizard People who run the United Nations. Sensing a trend, you vile little seditionist?
fortunately for birthers, Brian’s information is old and outdated. According to the CCP, a ton of more information has come out that Brian has no idea of insight into. It is now the CCP’s responsibility to release that information.
I was just wondering what it would take to make you disillusioned with the CCP.
Any day now.
Please hold your breath while waiting for the release of this imaginary information. Hell, even a hunger strike will do.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/Obama-Verification.pdf
Note the verification simply states that the information was verified form the information on the document on record.
that can do nothing more than that!
If the record is accurate it is accurate, if it is fake it is fake, and nothing can change that.
So, what is it that makes a recorded document accurate?
Only the truthfulness of the preparer of the recorded document.
So, who prepared the recorded document?
How do you know, john?
Probably because there was no Selective Service Forgery.
That’s funny because the CCP information is old and outdated and long debunked. Much of their claims have been long repeated and long debunked nonsense. I have yet to see them make an original claim.
That was awesome!
When will that be, John? I want to mark my calendar. 😛
Any day now!
The Constitution-upholding Government of the United States and two voting majorities of all of its citizens were not silent on Obama’s Presidential eligibility – they have repeatedly made it official!
John is hoping that this is true, but has no idea…
Typical. You think that if you repeat something as if it were fact enough times, you will convince someone it actually is fact.
The selective service bs was debunked within days of first publication, and you know it.
You know that. I know that. The problem is…..john doesn’t.
Oh, yes he does.
Point of interest, I have wondered why Stanley Ann Dunham Obama’s signature on the LFBC was so screwed up.
I surmise this is the answer and may explain all of the problems with the LFBC
“Beginning April 1, 2011, the U.S. Department of State will require the full names of the applicant’s parent(s) to be listed on all certified birth certificates to be considered as primary evidence of U.S. citizenship for all passport applicants, regardless of age. Certified birth certificates missing this information will not be acceptable as evidence of citizenship”
So, they pull the LFBC find that Ann Dunham Obama was listed as the mother, and they had to go into the LFBC to add the Stanley to the name to make it meet the standards of April 1 , 2011..
Now they can not use the original, found that out when they received it and proceed to change it to meet the new standards.
Because if it was just Ann Dunham, which has been suggested, they could not use it as evidence of citizenship, which would screw the pooch even it the BC was real or fake.
And there would be no other inforrmation that would determine citizenship for the Obama
I wonder.
One point of interest to me – and by this I mean no disrespect to Mr. Reilly – is the fact that just eight months after meeting Arpaio, and with no apparent experience either in law enforcement or the law, he was given a prominent position with the CCP, including a police cruiser, access to the county’s gas pumps, and a badge.
If I am misinterpreting this, and Mr. Reilly actually has law enforcement experience or is/was an attorney, I would happy to have him clarify it.
John, there is no such “more information” forthcoming. The cold case posse is dead. The month of March will come and go without any such “universe shattering” disclosure.
I believe he is a retired businessman/owner.
Very few posse members have recent police experience. Remember Zullo last worked as a real police officer in the 90’s in New Jersey.
Former and retired officers in Arizona usually become reserves if they want to volunteer their time.
I hope that RC is updating the Cold Case Posse Timeline to include the fascinating vignettes from Mr. Reilly’s letter.
It would take a proctologist to gain prior insight into the kind of crap the CCP will attempt to shitter the Universe with when the March attack of flatulence they plan on calling an “announcement”, is released just in time to compete for derision with you, – our own “steeenking” John.
Welcome from the dark side, as one Reilly to another.
Beware the Lies of March–their silence can you leave you speechless.
Yes, it’s a strange little fiefdom Arpaio has cobbled together. Though Old Joe seems too crafty to be brought down by Mr. Reilly’s disclosures, yet he may be shaken.
The poster “Joe Mannix” who I’m convinced is one of those CCP drones that Brian Reilly described, has linked to a photo of Arpaio, Reilly, and Zullo. I believe it represents the day that Reilly got his CCP badge, etc. I can post the link if Dr. C. says it doesn’t violate his policies. Otherwise, it can be found in the comments under the current article at BR.
Just wondering if anybody will forward this to the Maricopa Board of Commissioners, since Sheriff Arpaio testified to them that no county funds would be used on this investigation, and it’s clear that Arpaio lied to them.
Unless, of course, Brian Reilly’s post wwas the “universe shattering disclosure”.
John- we have no proof that you are the John that normally posts here.
prove it……
Why none, of course. But it’s entirely consistent with Gallups’ claim that the “investigation” was a lobbying effort from the git-go.
It’s the Board of Supervisors and, trust me, they know Arpaio has lied to them about lots of things.
They got into this mess when some citizens tried to donate money to the county to pay for the expenses of the real deputy that accompanied Zullo to Hawaii. They turned down the money.
My take on this as well… Arpaio has opened himself up… Expect damage control…
I suspect he’s polishing his tap shoes right now. This will not be pretty.
Yes, but my recollection is that when Arpaio first announced the “investigation” he claimed that the CCP was made up of former law enforcement personnel and attorneys. I don’t have time to check right now and see if my memory is accurate.
Yes, that’s exactly what he said. Other than Zullo and his limited work for a very small department in New Jersey I suspect the sheriff didn’t tell the truth. A shock, I know….but there it is.
Arthur:
this photo?
http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-question-for-the-cold-case-posse/
Well, as Jim Malone would say, who would claim to be that who was not?
No, I mean another one, with Corsi going “I’m fired…I’m fired”
Here’s a blast from the past:
http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2012/04/it-was-reported-today-that-arizona.html
Got up this morning (8 hours ahead of some of you guys) to this blast of fresh air. Congrats to Brian for stepping out of the shadows.
It’s an added bonus to see racist troll john lose the few marbles he had left. I can almost hear the sputtering and see the spittle as he types his posts. Remember john: THEY’RE COMING FOR YOU ! Any day now!
My money is on: “We have to delay releasing the universe-shlabbering everdunce because we have to investigate the possibility of further Obot moles within the investigation first so we can be sure our hyperverse-shutting evildance hasn’t been compromised or manipulated.” Sounds like a perfect excuse for not showing anything this month, or ever.
I find myself in something of a quandary.
As readers of the blog are aware, my distaste of and disgust in the actions of birthers is hardly either secret or wishy-washy.
As such I have split feelings on Mr Reilly.
On the one hand.
I find his actions at the beginning of this tawdry and drawn out affair to be more than a little reprehensible. The actions were motivated by more than mere curiosity or desire to clarify, they were motivated by fear and distaste for “the other” a refusal to accept the legal and constitutionally binding election results and more than a little bigotry.
On the other, we have something of a “coming to Jesus” moment where the originator has not only come to the realisation that the premise was completely false but that the individuals participating were fundamentally using him and his original organisation for purely partisan and financial reasons.
The fact the he has in effect, come clean AND of all places on Doc C’s site does earn him points that help to offset some of the bad karma points.
I will wait and see how things progress but intend to give Mr Reilly a goodly amount of the benefit of the doubt at this time
Qualified kudo’s
thanks brian for posting this letter.
IMO it proves you are a man of integrity considering how difficult it might have been, and the potential for fallout from birferstan.
i tip my hat to you
According to reliable sources from the Arizona Tea Party and the CCP, what Brian Reilly has written is complete nonsense.
And your evidence for that would be?
I know almost nothing about him beyond what he’s related here, so he could be a closet Klansman without my being aware of it. But I don’t see any of that in what he wrote. Just a retired guy, with too much time on his hands, who decided to pursue an extremely unlikely, but not yet “batguano insane” at that point, conspiracy theory. And who let go of his suspicions when he felt there was sufficient evidence against them.
I have no qualms about lambasting people who still cling to birferism now. Or who were certain back then, and just looking for “proof” to support their prejudgements.
But inferring malevolence in the absence of supporting evidence is what the conspiracy nuts do.
I find Mr. Reilly’s claims that the verification settled the birther issue for him a bit difficult to swallow. He’s birfed quite a bit since May 2012 when the verification was sent.
5/3/13, he wrote this:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=8405&p=502250&hilit=brian+reilly#p502250
“The whole premise for requesting the Arpaio investigation was for the purpose of determining whether the Obama Certificate of Live Birth is a criminal forgery. The main thrust of the request was to bring criminal charges to the forefront. We still are waiting for Arpaio & Co. to seek criminal charges. When that happens it will indeed be worthy of the phrase “breaking news.” ”
Here’s a 10/25/2012 letter excoriating Gov. Brewer over birther nonsense, including this:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3044&p=434336&hilit=brian+reilly#p434331
“You allowed Secretary of State Bennett to accept a Hawaii Department of Health, Obama birth certificate Verification Letter that lacked a date of birth resulting in Obama’s placement on the ballot.”
Here’s something he wrote to Arpaio on 10/25/2012
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7215&p=422580&hilit=brian+reilly#p422580
“I believe that it is time to turn your evidence over either to the Arizona Grand Jury or the Maricopa County Grand Jury for a determination whether crimes of fraud and forgery have been committed against the citizens of Arizona and identify, if possible, the perpetrator of the crimes and who is the most likely beneficiary of these purported crimes. It’s time to let the jurors of the Grand Jury decide our future, not the politicians in Congress.”
Lots more stuff out there. These do not strike me as the words of someone who believes the birther issue was settled in May of 2012.
Good points, Thinker. I should also say that Reilly’s testament has zero probitive value; the CCCP is and always has been a joke, and every member is a bigot or a grifter or both. Reilly is, by his own admission, a teabagger, and they’ve been proved to be on the wrong side of every single issue they’ve addressed. So his story makes no difference to the actual facts of the case, which were settled years ago; the story has only entertainment value, but it has that in plentitude. Birthed infighting is hilarious beyond measure.
But, I could have written that. It doesn’t say that the writer supports Zullo.
According to anonymous non-existing people I never talked to, I AM BATMAN!
I still think one could write and interesting book on this entire affair of the CCP “investigation”. It would be a farce however and would have many twists and turns.
Folks say that about you too. If you had cited one of those folks and provided their statement, then your comment would have been worth something. As it stands, it says nothing.
Who are these reliable sources?
I wouldn’t read much into the choice of site. As the article says, this was his last resort.
I scanned some of the comments at BR last night, and one of the things they are saying to discredit Reilly is to associate him with me. But so far, there really is no association, just a cold call request to publish a story. Remember that I published an article by Adrien Nash a while back, and he’s normally banned here.
While Brian Reilly might be an interesting fellow to get to know, he hasn’t sided with me or joined me in an any way.
So… at this point you are accepting that this was in fact Brian Reilly who wrote this? Changed your tune awfully quickly. Yesterday you were certain that this was a hoax.
So first you don’t believe he wrote it, but now you believe he wrote it, but it’s unreliable?
That’s some pretty unambitious goal post moving. I expected better from you. I assume your “reliable sources” consist of the panic stricken inmates at birther report screaming “NUH UH!!!”
Oh you mean those unnamed sources who tell you what you want to hear and you instantly believe it? So you’re going to flipflop in your claim that this was a hoax?
I also find it hard to swallow that he doesn’t think of himself as a birther after admitting that the CCP Birth Certificate Investigation was begun after he petititioned Joe Arpaio. WHY if he is not a birther? I am thankful that he is bringing these things to light now, but I am not wholly convinced all he wrote is true. I do find value in his discussions of monetary exchanges (cars, office space) between MCSO and CCP, if nothing else.
The level of panic at BR over this is off the scales! I haven’t seen them panicking this hard since the morning of November 7th 2012. And just look at John. He’s in full blown “Oh God!!! This can’t be happening!” mode.
I sure didn’t. I’m used to James’ constantly goal post moving and dishonesty. I still remember the day on the Reality Check Radio show chatroom when Obama had released the long form and James claimed he was done birthing and that the President was the President.
I fully agree that Mr. Reilly’s letter offers nothing directly influential to settling the issue of the LFBC’s authenticity. That has been a settled issue for multiple years at this point, and nothing provided by any birther or birther-curious strap hanger has challenged that in the time since.
But what this does is provide us a unique insider’s look at the deep dysfunction (both organizationally and individually) of the Cold Case Posse. It certainly has caused me to step back and reassess some of my previous judgments on Zullo himself. When I did my first detailed review of Zullo’s second affidavit, my ultimate conclusion was that was simply not very smart, and more than a little thin skinned. I now have to rethink the latter conclusion and consider Zullo as more than merely neurotic. Taken as a whole, his behavior is actively bizarre.
On a lighter and more personal note (given my own ethnic background), I get a big kick out of the vignette during which Zullo throws a Corsi cowering tantrum and Arpaio turns to Reilly for help in mediating the row. What Italian in their right mind would ever look to the only Irishman in the room to settle a fight between two other Italians?
Arpaio too appears to be losing a few steps.
That singing kitty sheriff, my daughters watch on Disney Junior, is a more competent law enforcement officer than he is. Come to think about it, Joe could benefit from watching it! One of the lessons that show teaches, is that lying only gets you into trouble.
oh yeah. We’re talking broadway comedy. I’m thinking a musical. ‘The Birthers’. I can see it now.
No thanks, I’d rather see “Waterworld: The Musical” instead.
That’s it. I guess it’s been shared publicly.
/quote from Mr. Reily’s letter:
I have also lost my family healthcare insurance plan because of President Obama’s Affordable Care Act, often called “Obamacare.”
Mr. Reilly seems to be a well off person. Did he really have such a crappy “healthcare insurance plan” that it could be negatively affected by “Obamacare” ?
Much more intersting than all that birther nonsense…..
The European:
gallup polled 500 people a day, 350 days a year. The latest health care results were based on more than 28,000 interviews, or about 28 times as many as in a standard national poll.
AP: Uninsured Rate Drops, Thanks To Obamacare
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/uninsured-rate-obamacare-gallup_n_4932718.html
john, from now on and forever, I name you Birther Bob, in honor of that famous apologist to the Iraqi dictator, Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf or Baghdad Bob.
He also seems to be old enough to be have Medicare; I’m also interested in his claim about the ACA.
While this article provides valuable insight, it is also biased through the lens of someone who feels betrayed. In addition, it contains only selected vignettes from a larger story and doesn’t touch on a host of important issues regarding the press conferences, fundraising, and to what extent Zullo lied about the investigation in public. I just caution folks not to place too much importance on this small story.
Carl, you and I have not always been the best of friends, but, I feel like we’re becoming siblings in arms on this. Thanks!
Well lets see, the comments, videos, presentations and outright racist language at the various Sunrise Tea Party events, CCCP “press conferences” blog posts etc which led to and fed from this give me a damn firm foundation.
Plenty of supporting eveidence, I suggest you go and look at the same items and then make a personal determination
I think Reilly is my age, 63 and not yet old enough for medicare.
I wonder who paid for those badges?
While that may be true, it comes at a time when the birthers are becoming very boring and uninteresting. This is the shot in the arm that us anti-birthers needed to re-energize their entertainment value to us.
Meanwhile, in birferstan, their universe is being shattered…as Gallups promised. 😀
Reilly indeed is a lover of Ford Mustangs. Here is a remarkable item connecting Reilly, Fords and Honolulu from 2003.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Dec/15/op/op03aletters.html
Then it’s a good day indeed.
I started reading this and my immediate thought was, as I’m sure it was for most of us:
“Wow, john’s really going to lose his excrement.”
He did not disappoint. Actually, he did not just meet but far exceeded my expectations.
The john Stages of Birther Grief:
Anger
Denial
Demanding
Denial
Denial
Denial
Denial
Deflection
Denial
Denial
And kudos to Arthur for the “Baghdad Bob” connection.
“Reliable sources” at the CCP?!?!?!?! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The ONLY thing the CCP has been reliable about is…they are wrong! So john, taking your statement at face value, they agree with Reilly’s assessment. Thanks john! 😆
Those Cracker Back joxes don’t just grow on trees!
Complete with a Donate button?
The irony is delicious and the timing fortuitous. Here we have the fellow who pretty much caused the Cold Case Posse investigation discrediting it. One of the first things Reilly did was try to convince me that it really was him that started the business, by sending me confirming articles from WND. He IS the real deal.
What is most important in this story is not what was said, but that it was said at all. This is like Patrick Henry switching to the British side, or Martin Luther King Jr. saying that segregation wasn’t all that bad.
Thanks for that–I was never good at guessing peoples’ ages when I worked for the carnival.
Badges!? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges, we’re the CCP!! No seriously, we don’t need badges: we’re a volunteer force with no legal authority. These badges . . . they’re just, well, it’s like Viagra that you wear.
I think “Baghdad John” would be snappier.
It has a nice ring to it–however you put it, “Let mockery roll down like waters and ridicule like a mighty stream.” Arthur Alinsky
Love that!
he likes to hint that he has some kind of direct connection but i have yet to see any evidence of this from “joe mannix” or any of his other late 60’s- early 70’s era crime-fighter sock puppets ( “steve mcgarrett”, “george lazenby”, “britt reid” ).
And more than a little true, don’t ya think?
Oh yeah? Didn’t you ever see “M”? “Half-a Key-Largo”?
But I think we should all take the article for what it is- very, very amusing in a trainwreck keystone cop fashion.
I think it may be time to get a march calendar set up and up to date with the news. Who knew? I always heard March comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb, I guess that’s even more true in universe-shattered birferstan.
You are very observant and very correct.
The only stage he left out was “pants wetting”.
A LOT more than a little true.
Gotta love how some folks, with no legal training what so ever, can be so arrogant to assume their “personal belief” is somehow sufficient to determine that long standing and uncontroversial precedent of the United States Supreme Court is “faulty.”
Baghdad John and his fellow delusionals are poster boys for Dunning-Kruger . . . although in Falcon’s case, I’d call it the Freddie-Kruger effect.
Doc,
I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your tenacity, your even-tempered and good-humoured approach to this site. I’m a frequent reader because the drama is psychologically revealing and fascinating, sad and humorous. Also, as disheartening as the denial and magical thinking on display can be, your calm championing of rationality inspires me. I just want to acknowledge the effort you put into this, and let you know that there are those of us who appreciate it although we don’t post.
“Thanks, Roxy!”
I suspect the sheriff pays for the badges. The companies who make real badges only accept orders from real police agencies. If you look at the posse websites you will see that their badges are exactly the same as regular deputies except they have the word “posse” where deputy is on the other badges.
But worse….the uniform shoulder patches say Deputy Sheriff so that unless one looks real close at the badge they may never know they are dealing with a minimally trained, unsworn civilian. Check out the pictures on their websites. Yes, they also drive around in regular, fully marked patrol vehicles:
http://suncityposse.org/about.htm
http://www.scwposse.com/
There is word in that sentence that is the cause of all of your problems. “Believe”.
There it is again!
Seeing the pattern yet?
That’s your problem, John! Birthers go on feelings and opinions. Not facts! You can believe all you want, but its not going to change a thing. You can believe has hard as you can, that Obama is an illegal alien and/or isn’t legally entitled to be the President, but the fact of the matter is that the matter is long settled. Obama was born in Hawaii, he was found eligible to run for, and was elected, President of these United States. Not once, but TWICE!
Your beliefs to the contrary be DAMNED.
To quote a parental tactic I use, when dealing with a child who won’t stop asking the for the same thing over and over again: “Asked, and answered!”
You’re welcome! If you haven’t had a chance check out the links to the IRS 990’s for the two Sun City posses I posted yesterday. Lots of information there that provides insights into how they operate….information that would be nice to have for the Cold Case Posse.
Any day now!
I’ve re-read Brian Reilly’s post several times, and the same reply comes to mind.
Lie down with dogs
Wake up with fleas.
john: “I for one don’t believe Obama is NBC. However, this a personal belief. ”
And as we’ve explained to you over and over and over again, your belief is worth one vote. If you can get others to believe your beliefs, maybe you can get them to vote the same way. You lost. Get over it.
I have. Thanks. 🙂
I have contacted the Arizona Republic based on this thread, and I certainly hope they catch these comments.
I’m a member of the Surprise Tea Party Patriots (our legal name, by the way). I am one of the original members of the STPP and signed the petition asking Sheriff Joe to investigate the eligibility by birth issue. I heard Brian every time he spoke to the STPP. Once, he even gave the invocation at the start of a meeting.
In my personal opinion, Brian used the STPP as the vehicle to promote his views on the issue. He struck me as extremely opinionated, “my way or the highway”, “I’m in control” type of personality. If he doesn’t get his way, he’ll take his marbles and go home. Contrary to his “there is no there, there” attitude, Sheriff Joe told me personally, several months ago, that Congress SHOULD take the issue up. And that was months before Zullo began talking of “universe shattering evidence” The Sheriff would know one hell of a lot more “of what’s going on” than Reilly.
I love this Reilly guy
I blame it on the self-esteem epidemic.
They probably think “That’s what Christianity did, and look where they are now!”. 😉
I would call it ignorance. And yes, the Supreme Court precedents are all wrong… Poor John, his whole world is against him… And in spite of the facts, he refuses to accept the obvious…
I believe there is someone over at Channel 5 who also follows the SO closely.
I hope Mr. Reilly chooses to address questions soon. A few things bother me about his article. First was this part:
When did Mr. Reilly come to this revelation? I found several comments he made at Birther Report and other blogs where he never mentions the verification and even seems to be as convinced as ever that a crime had been committed. For example someone claiming to be him posted this at the ArizonasPolitics blog on March 21, 2013:
http://arizonaspolitics.blogspot.com/2013/03/arpaio-recall-challenge-spurs-national.html
So that is quite a turnabout Mr. Reilly. When did this occur?
Then there are the reasons he left the posse?
Well am not sure what “liability” you are talking about? Even real law enforcement officers are responsible for their actions. What kind of activities did the CCP engage that raised concerns over potential liability? I agree that the MCSO suprevision of the CCP was lax and maybe even nonexistent. Why shouldn’t there have been a ban on political activities? Are you being honest and telling us this is all about politics?
Those are just a few questions I have. While I am delighted that Mr. Reilly has come forward I think his story deserves the same scrutiny that we (as seekers of fact) give to every other account by Zullo, Gallups, or anyone else.
There is that. A person can come to their senses, but birtherism is a stink that doesn’t wash off!
Also, an excellent point!
RC, I don’t know what liability the CCP would have (or could possibly encounter) but regular posse members are not covered by the county for injuries. This rule was actually shown in real life consequences recently when a posse member got involved in a shooting while trying to apprehend a criminal, and was shot. This incident happened on New Years Eve. The posse member is still in critical condition, over 2 months later. – (this article from February, MCSO reports on a Facebook page 3 days ago that he is still listed as critical condition): http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/phillip-grigg-update-mcso-officials-say-posse-member-out-of-coma-still-in-critical-condition-
From the MCSO Facebook page:
“Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Official Site shared a link.
March 7
MCSO posse member Phillip Grigg continues to be in critical condition with gunshot wounds sustained on New Year’s Eve when he came to the aid of a Phoenix police officer. The Grigg family remain in our prayers. If you wish to contribute financially to this brave family, please see this link to the MCSO Memorial Fund…” https://www.mcsomemorialfund.com/fallen-hero-donation.aspx?oid=31
Actually, according to the Sheriff, he doesn’t. He’s testified in court many times he does not micro-manage the people under his control and often has no clue what they are doing under his name. So, is he a perjurer or was he just pulling your leg? 😀
That is a good point and a valid concern if these folks were after real bad guys. In the case of the CCP they were after an imaginary forger.
Personally I find the concept of the posses disturbing and see them as just inviting corruption and bad outcomes. I cannot see anything useful about a bunch of pretend cops running about.
Did the Sheriff explain to you why he wasn’t doing anything to inform Congress or the public….to help them understand the severity of the issue?
Sorry, I didn’t catch your name. Before I can accept your information I need your name and your address, and the names and addresses of everyone who helped you develop the information.
There is lots of potential financial liability for the posse and its officers as there is for any non-profit corporation. Responsible organizations carry liability insurance and insurance to cover corporate officers and directors. Frankly I’m not sure where you would get insurance to cover a posse’s quasi-public, law enforcement operations. (It makes me wonder how the search and rescue posses protect their members since they probably have the most exposure to injuries.)
Absent that sort of insurance the entities assets (considerable in the case of the Sun City posses) are in danger as are those of directors and officers who can be held personally responsible for the misdeeds of the corporation.
As noted in another post posses got left out of the equation in the late 1960’s when the state legislature formalized police training (AZPOST) and extended worker’s compensation coverage to sworn reserve officers.
Oh yes, I would just LOVE to have our sheriff tell his constituents (and the rest of the nation’s citizens, of course, since Obama IS the president) why he is involved in a presidential eligibility case. Bwahahaha! He knows if he does this, he is going to lose the next election.
Don’t you know Carl, March Any Day Nowers bring April Birfer tear showers?
For years, decades in fact after statehood, sheriff’s posses in Arizona were limited to riding in parades which was pretty benign. Then several departments added search and rescue posses which did a good job.
Arpaio is the one who pushed it to where it is now in Maricopa County for…..get a grip now…..the advancement of his political career.
At some point the legislature and/or the board of supervisors is going to have to clean up the mess he’s made.
Very good!!
And I’m sure good ole sheriff Joe wasn’t using the investigation to try distract the fact that he was being investigated by the feds for a laundry list of offenses or the giant backlog of sexual assualt cases they’ve been ignoring.
Of course he did. And you’re probably guillible enough to believe him too. What did you expect him to say? Did you expect him to admit that he’s been playing you for a fool and he’s never going to do anything because all he has is a pile internet B.S. that was debunked years before he put on his snazzy press conference?
We’ve all seen the quality of “universe shattering evidence” Zullo comes up with. You know…long debunked b.s. from the internet…and can’t forget his attempt to flat out lie about the year of the manual he pulled the codes from. I for one am not expecting very much from him.
Sheriff Joe told me personally, just last week, that he’s a corrupt coward who craps his own pants three times a day and fingerbangs chickens.
Anonymous internet commenting is FUN, isn’t it??? Your turn.
So is there some “history” between the Surprise Tea Party and the Surprise Tea Party Patriots?
300 posts already. Doc, get ready to open another thread!
Does Volin have a show this evening? If they continue to ignore Mr Reilly’s letter, they’re going to look like Reilly was correct. I look for the attacks to start…any day now. 😀
My question leaves aside the validity of his charade and gets to the simpler issue: If it is so serious and he is so sure the President has done something wrong why hasn’t he clearly and completely provided the information to Congress and the American people?
The answer is simple: He’s a con artist and he doesn’t have a damn thing.
What is very telling in this chain of 300 or so responses is that not once did any commenter (other than Baghdad Bob) issue any threats or vile comments. If you swing over to the birther sites it seems every second comment has veiled or not-so-veiled threats with all sorts of dire wishes for mayhem to be committed on B Reilly and/or any “Obot”. Sort of tells you why you can never have a rational discussion with birfers – they are consumed with hate and rage (and stupidity – don’t forget the stupidity). Hope I’m not living next door to any of them.
Oo oo can we be the TPTruthSquad? Somebody bring the sundries!
Arpaio didn’t just tell you that Congress should take up the issue, he told everyone. Because there’s nothing for the Sheriff’s Office to do! If I remember correctly, his own DA told him nothing in Zullo’s “report” could produce an indictment. Arpaio rightly concluded that in matters of removing a president, Congress is the body that has authority and responsibility. The fact that in the most partisan Congress in memory, no Republican takes Zullo seriously, should be a sledgehammer of truth to your ignorant delusions. For God’s sake–when will you elderly nut-jobs get a life and stop trying to screw up America for the rest of us?
Never underestimate a birther’s ability to ignore something. After all, they’ve been ignoring the truth for five years; I don’t think they’re going to improve anytime soon.
Hmmm. The number of unique visitors was higher on March 3 than yesterday (781) and the percentage of new visitors was down a tad (31.29%) from the average. This story created less of a splash than I thought.
Did you allow for those who smashed their computers in rage? That’ll affect the metrics.
That’s right, which is why I’ve been screaming that my sheriff cannot be involved in this (which is my personal reason for continuing to be a part of this site, otherwise, I’d just point and laugh and not comment). I got bored of the PDF argument long ago, my main focus now is on why my sheriff was involving himself in a federal matter (and my comments of late reflect that).
Yes, I am just very angry that he even thought he could try to do this to begin with.
Yeah, everybody knows they ask a German. Just ask Mario Puzo.
What bothers me is the thought that a County Sheriff would act as cover for a scam artist scaring and then robbing retirees with fixed incomes. There ought to be a law!
Arpaio is always prepared to throw the posse under the bus if necessary. Plausible deniability I believe it is called
Now that is ironic…
Birtherreport (sic) is spinning that Arpaio is promising more.. Anytime now… Perhaps they are ready to deport Roxy?
RC has announce over at TFB that he was able to arrange an interview with Mr Reilly. The birther universe is shattering before our very eyes!!! 😀
Officially, he’s not: it’s about the alleged false statement in Obama’s ballot papers. The fact that said statement is about “a federal matter” is irrelevant. If someone uses a forged passport as photo ID to pass a bad check, the fact that the passport forgery is “a federal matter” doesn’t stop state and/or local LEOs from purusing the bad check.
That provides enough of a fig leaf, legally speaking, to cover the real reason: he needed a distraction from the lawsuits and some raw meat for the right wing. But, of course, he’s not gonna talk about that.
Translation: He insisted on looking for facts and hard evidence, instead of gossip and speculation that made you feel better about calling Obama a “usurper”.
I prefer March…birthers come in like a lion, and leave like a lamb. Especially when they realize that Zullo’s been using them as his personal lamb! 😀
That is not correct. I have asked Dr. C. to pass along that request to Mr. Reilly. Doc C. has shared enough information with me that I too am convinced this article was is definitely written by Brian Reilly. i was able to independently confirm his email address.
My mistake, I misread your post.
Assumes facts not in evidence. For example, when the story of the “Reed Hayes” report first broke, Arpaio said explicitly that he didn’t even bother to read it.
It would be foolish to actually believe that Arpaio had a clue regarding what Zullo was up to.
Absolutely. That’s a great point.
No problem, I have emailed a request directly to Mr. Reilly. I hope it happens.
More birther lies. From 22 CFR 51.42, right underneath the new requirement you quoted:
“(b) Secondary evidence of birth in the United States. If the applicant cannot submit a birth certificate that meets the requirement of paragraph (a) of this section, he or she must submit secondary evidence sufficient to establish to the satisfaction of the Department that he or she was born in the United States. Secondary evidence includes but is not limited to hospital birth certificates, baptismal certificates, medical and school records, certificates of circumcision, other documentary evidence created shortly after birth but generally not more than 5 years after birth, and/or affidavits of persons having personal knowledge of the facts of the birth.”
The newspaper announcements would suffice for this.
Sorry, we need his circumcision certificate.
Yep Traderjack/Helen or whatever gender he wants to be today is making the same argument over at Amazon and failing miserably.
Karl Gall Oops!:”Once again, Listeners, I’ve got the CCP chief instigator, Grand Rear Entry Seaman Mike Zoo Low on the phone and this will drive the Obots CRAZY, but if I understand him right, he’s just TRIUMPHANTLY concluded a 6 day ordeal SUCCESSFULLY investigating his way out of a paper bag, is that right, Mike?”
Voice on the phone:”No this is Officer Beefheart – I’m a real officer of the law. We busted into the paper bag and rescued your clown Zoo Low from himself – he’s been creating a public nuisance here in a restaurant for almost a week. He’s still babbling on about how everything he told people about Obama and Obama’s team was actually a lie. He’s saying that you encouraged him!”
Karl Gall Oops!:”Let me just insert here for our listeners, that this news, if true, is of no concern. And I promise you, that everybody who declared that Obama is ineligible just because they hate him, or are racists – they have been COMPLETELY VINDICATED.”
Voice on the phone:”Also, if you’re still there, Gally boy, Sheriff Our Pie Hole, and everybody connected with this so-called investigation have confessed to conspiring to defraud the American people with all of this anti-Obama nonsense!”
Karl Gall Oops!:”Not a problem! No concern at all. Sheriff who?”
Field Marshall Fuhrer Mike Zoo Low (yelling in the background) :”Karl! Karl! Burn your books! They’re coming after your non-profit designation! Burn your books! And the cars! And the houses! Oh the inhumanity!”
Karl Gall Oops!:”THAT’S a problem! We’ve got to disappear this Brain Really character. If you can still hear me, Mike, Do you remember Nancy Owem’s cell number?”
Police Officer:”I’m hanging this up in about 15 seconds, Gal!”
Mike Zoo Low (murmuring frantically now through the face obscuring extraneous fabric on his ill-fitting straight jacket):”Nancy Owem’s cell number was Building 3, Block 2, Cell 38, Karl! Karl?”
ABSURD MOMENTS IN BIRFERSTAN HISTORY
Birthers demand to see Obama’s Penis
http://jezebel.com/5344988/birthers-want-to-see-obamas-penis
Yes, it is strange. The Bennett Verification never convinced me because the Date of Birth was never verified. This raised a big red flag when I saw that. There is no reason in the rational world to believe that Ken Bennett “Forgot” to ask for the Date of Birth to be verified.
Hawaii did not verify the Date of Birth. And there was a big big big reason for it.
http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hi-non-verification-1.pdf
It appears to me that he turned 64 earlier this year, so he has nearly a year to go before Medicare.
That said, I take his claim about losing his family’s health insurance with a grain of salt. If he really “lost it” he was offered a replacement policy.
Barack Obama also has his Kapi’olani Hospital souvenir birth certificate with his newborn footprints. It can be used as “Secondary Evidence.”
I’ve noticed that too and it is sad. It’s kinda’ like that saying , ” If all you have is a hammer, then everything is a nail ” — or something like that 🙂
And guess what the exact document that the State Department accepts from Hawaii? It’s the birth certificate that Obama released in June of 2008. I got my passport with a birth certificate that looked almost identical to that (it was from a different state, and had parents place of birth, rather than parents race).
It’s not common for women to put a married name on the birth certificate. So, your blatent speculation of “Ann Dunham Obama” being on the birth certificate is not actually possible. Especially since both the Short Form (you know, the one that the State Department actually accepts) and the Long Form both list Obama’s mother’s name as “Stanley Ann Dunham”.
Well then, you must have been convinced by the Kobach Verification, which includes everything, referencing the White House PDF directly.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/106576604/2012-09-14-KS-SoS-Kobach-Letter-to-Onaka-and-Response
Yes, Obama is secretly 34½ years old 😯
There was a more inventive (yet equally wrong) birfer meme about this, let’s see if john remembers it.
Surprise from Surprise…I have a badge! I am the Kommandante of the Cold Cuts Posse! Hilarious!!!!
You should have read the lettering on that “big red flag”, because what it said is “YOU’RE A *$%&ING IDIOT! READ IT AGAIN!”: the letter says “Additionally, I verify that the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama that you attached with your request matches the original record in our files.”
In other words (since you obviously need them), Onaka DID verify that the date, and all the other information, on the PDF (which was printed out and attached to the request) matches the original.
I’m not even certain I understand this argument. No one would change a birth certificate to meet requirements 50 years later, they’d submit change of name (marriage license, divorce decree, etc.) docs with the original BC. Which the short form would work for.
he will find another excuse… he has no shame…
RC did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2lvS_v-WU
This takes the cake as dumbest birther legal theory of 2014 so far.
Sure, a law changes and suddenly people frantically dig up all those millions of birth certificates of the last 100 years to change the signatures on each and every one of them, while also trying to make the changes look as if they were written by the original signer.
Yup, that so totally makes sense that it must be true. Why don’t you ask Tim Adams, maybe he accidentally was one of the Chief Signature Expanders at the Hawaiian DOH? Or he spoke to someone who once ran over someone who was?
Well, Doc point to were Onaka actually verifies the the Date of Birth. He doesn’t. His statement might infer that but you safely say for the record that Alvin Onaka HAS NEVER verified Obama’s Date of Birth. This is especially true when you consider the Ken Bennett verification where Bennett asked for certain items to be directly verified by some how “forgot” to ask for the Date of Birth which makes absolutely no sense in the world.
Wow…345 comments posted on this article. Must be a record for this blog. Congratulations Mr. Reilly. You have single-handedly done something none of the rest of us have been able to do. You have effectively tanked birtherdom’s last stand. Well done!
Personally, I prefer to call a spade a spade, as long as I am not insulting anyone who doesn’t deserve to be insulted while doing it.
I think TPPropagandaSquad would be much more fitting.
Little known film of their arguments to SCOTUS for a Scrotum Search Warrant
It is the usual birther tactic to take anything they don’t know and assign critical importance to it, even though there is no rational basis for it. No one had ever questioned Obama’s date of birth. Indeed, even the fake Kenyan birth certificates have the same date of birth as the actual one. And wherever Obama was born, there is absolutely no question in anybody’s mind that he is beyond 35 years old, the age required to be President.
Further, no one but a birther would fail to understand that Onaka verified the date of birth. If you want to call it an inference, fine, but the inference is a logical certainty unless you are going to say that the date of birth is not “information”–which you are twisted enough to do, I suppose.
No, you only say it’s important because it was omitted, and you say that it makes no sense because it was omitted, not because there is any actual reason to. Your objection is fundamentally dishonest and totally predictable for the kind of twisted thinking that makes for a birther.
A rational person, like Mr. Reilly, was capable of realizing a mistake and honest enough to admit it. You on the other hand are either incompetent or dishonest. Take your pick.
(See Foggy, I’m not always nice.)
No, he will continue to use the same discredited excuse. He has no sense.
I guess you missed the part on the verification where he stated additionally he verified all the information contained in the PDF matches whats in the original. Additional information would include the BC.
it’s not a record yet. Commenting cuts off at 500 and that has happened a few times, although not lately.
Can’t he be a combination of both? Why must you make him choose? All his twists and spins show a person who is dishonestly incompetent.
The reason that 500 hasn’t been reached in a while is quite simply…the birthers have become BORING! Nothing new, falling for the Zullo scam, repeating long ago debunked theories. The bEV has sunk to new lows, except for this letter. We need a good birfer war! Who’s got the popcorn?
John/Jim… I am going to spell this out for you in the simplest possible terms so that even the most simple minded of children could possibly understand in the hopes that you will do the same.
Point 1: The information on the Birth Certificate includes the date of birth. There is absolutely no disputing this. None. You must concede that it is part of the information on the certificate. Failing to do so would make you an intellectually dishonest person.
Point 2: Ken Bennett, in his verification request, included an image of the birth certificate which, as pointed out in point 1, would include the date of birth.
Point 3: Onaka stated in his letter of verification to Ken Bennett, “Additionally (meaning included to the point by point verification that he had already made), I verify that the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama that you attached with you request matches the original record in our files.” As pointed out in Point 1, and restated in Point 2, that information would include the date of birth.
To argue that Onaka did not verify the date of birth which, as pointed out in no less than three points of this explanation, was included in the information that is on the Certificate of Live Birth,and would require a complete and total denial of the facts. I could make this points to anyone, ANYONE, and they would conclude that Onaka had in fact verified the date of birth in his letter of verification to Ken Bennett.
Your, and by extension Butterdezillion’s, argument fails on even the simplest examination of the facts and requires a complete rejection of logical thinking in order to come to the conclusions that you have about this arguably petty claim.
LMAO! That’s hilarious.
I was struck by this part , “My wife, Denise and I paid for all of Dr. Corsi’s travel expenses. ” Corsi has always been an openly racist conspiracy loon (including being a 9/11 ‘truther’) Anybody who thought Corsi had any credibility on any subject whatsoever clearly is missing any common sense. Brian got what he deserved. He’s a fool who got taken by those who prey on his prejudices….
It sounds like desperation. Why have we only heard that the birthdate is wrong NOW and not five years ago? John and his birther friends are running scared. Meanwhile Orly Taitz is posting tweets about Craig Ferguson (a comedian) stating Obama’s birth certificate is not real (it was a JOKE of course), and speculating that Liberals say Obama’s real birth certificate was on the missing Malaysia Airplane (I can’t stop laughing about that one). I think we are finally seeing Peak Birther. LOL
I noticed that too, and wondered why two married private citizens were being asked to foot the bill for Corsi’s travel and involvement with the Surprise Tea Party? Why did the Surprise Tea Party not pay for this?
I’m surprised she’s not talking about this interview: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/18e820ec3f/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifian akis-president-barack-obama
I think we’ll soon learn all the the “universe shattering” evidence was on flight MH370 and President Obama ordered the plane destroyed…. by an atomic bomb as was confirmed on BR by someones father who was golfing.
You sure it wasn’t his father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate?
Seconded – thank you Doc from another rare poster but avid reader.
Yes, wasn’t that lovely? Same guy who alleged Doc was a front and all of his blogs were created in 2008 and backdated. A nuclear event would not go missed; every country on earth has a vital interest in monitoring such things, developed to a fine point during that whole “Cold War” thingie.
Another speculated that the DoD’s airborne laser (which has been mothballed for years (yes, of course it has, wink, wink, nudge, nudge)) vaporized the plane. Really, vaporized an entire plane??? I think they have confused lasers (burns holes in things) with Romulan disruptors.
Meanwhile, BR quickly moved on past Reilly, steadfastly refusing to acknowledge him. BR himself posted a short blurb—”Papa ‘Paio hisself personally assured me that they’re still on the case!”—and the Faithful swallowed it hook line and sinker and have settled back into quiet anticipation …. of …. nothing.
No, I think we’ll rather learn that the crash of flight MH370 will be the third, even bigger, even more unraveling investigation of the CCP, so therefore they will have to postpone the shattering until they have verified the potential involvement of each and every passenger in the birth certificate issue.
I mean, it’s obvious Fuddy’s crash was just a test run for the Real Thing [tm], so they have to check how many BC forgers were killed in the crash of MH370. 😉
I didn’t mean to hijack this thread. Still, since we are speculating on birther crazy, being there was only one adult American on the flight, are we to assume the missing BC forgers were Chinese, Taiwanese, Malaysian, or perhaps Iranian? My guess is on the Australians. 😛
Yes, I was bothered by that as well. A couple minutes on the internet and an open minded person could only conclude that Corsi had credibility problems unless, of course, he appealed to your own prejudices.
It seems pretty clear that Mr. Reilly entered the process with a whole pickup load of his own prejudices. What I am willing to give him credit for is that, for a variety of reasons, he figured out he had been taken and has now dumped the whole smelly mess and gone public with his reasons.
It would have been real easy for him to just skulk away, keep quiet and not expose himself to the questions he is facing here. Let’s give him a break and keep the dialogue going.
From what I can see neither the Surprise Tea Party nor the Surprise Tea Party Patriots (two different entities) have anything but registered trade names……with no business registration like a non-profit corporation.
So, then I guess it’s okay to harvest your hands, and transplant them onto someone who (unlike you) would use them to do honest and useful work. Because, even though the doctor said “John is still alive”, he didn’t specifically say “John’s hands are alive”. Makes ’em fair game, right?
Good heavens, I hope the IRS gets right on this. 😛
And at Birther Report someone claimed Jay Leno was replaced on The Tonight Show because he dared to make Obama jokes.
But the Malaysia Airlines thing takes the cake. Why do we even bother with these clowns? Better that we leave these Lotus-eaters behind to dream their lives away, while we shove off for more interesting and challenging shores.
Unless WE are the Lotus-eaters, intoxicated by the hilarious, almost poetic stupidity of birthers. No, no, no, no! I can quit coming to Dr. Conspiracy’s blog any time I want. I’m not addicted. I can kick this habit. Tomorrow. Yeah, I’m kicking this habit tomorrow…
Well, they were needing an uptick in their bEV…surely their fertile imaginations can come up with something new. Please. SOMETHING?
Hey, I haven’t posted for months before a week ago. I got severely bored for the longest time. But, yes, I’ll admit that I’m addicted to the crazy that is Peak Birther. LOL
Agreed. But he wouldn’t be the first person to be conned by someone who offered “evidence” to prove that someone he didn’t like was a criminal.
It might be more accurate to say that their second pair of pants has fallen down.
I wish more of your neighbors were as disgusted with Sheriff Joe as you are.
Arpaio isn’t using his office appropriately and what he’s doing is also plain old ‘mean’. Mean to provide the appearance of legitimacy – the ‘color of his office’ – to a passel of racist, lying, political partisans, who under cover of claiming to be patriots defending the Constitution, hope only to try to besmirch this President in any way possible while creating a witch’s brew of false history and baseless allegations of illegality, from which they hope at least one potential assassin might emerge.
John’s part of that crew. He knows Obama is the legitimate elected and Constitutionally eligible President of the United States. He knows the BC as confirmed by Hawaii is legitimate. He knows the posted copy is not in any sense a fraudulent fact-misrepresenting forgery. He knows his own comments here are ridiculous. He knows his arguments are guaranteed losers! So he’s not afraid of losing any argument. He’s only afraid we might stop arguing with him and his ilk. Because then the Birther Lie becomes a pathetic repetitious whispered soliloquy and the witches’ brew won’t be as likely to simmer up an assassin he can tell us he didn’t mean to help create. Would we expect his explanation to make any sense?
“Oh, if I had really wanted to recruit one, I would have learned to use Spell-Check, don’t you know?”
So it doesn’t impact John if he loses and knows he lost, EVERY ARGUMENT, just as long as he thinks he’ll get to lose that argument publicly again and again. A person who cared about his credibility would be too embarrassed to be a “John”. I trust that the long-suffering Doctor C has a good reason for letting John’s grave continue to dance on this stage. Lord knows he’s tolerated my ongoing attempts to jab at the Gall Oops!/Zoo Low Axis of Disingenuosity , via my Free Dumb Friday phone call scripts.
Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.
And every time someone realizes: Hey, wait a minute. It’s actually these self-proclaimed “patriots” I was listening to (or “men of God,” or “great leaders,” or whatever) who are really the people lying, manipulating and using others, and every time someone escapes from such a soul-destroying cult, that’s a time for celebration.
And it’s also a time for unreserved congratulations and support and warm fuzzies to whomever the cult escapee might be.
Because I will tell you this: It ain’t easy to escape from a cult. And just as in any cult, the other members of the cult just left are very likely going to turn and viciously attack whoever it was that dared to set foot off of their reservation.
So I have nothing but compliments to and for Mr. Reilly. Because whatever his prejudices might be (and we all have them) he appears to be an honest and thinking individual.
Well said. Pretty much what I meant, but crisper and more concise.
Just curious. Would those be the same reliable sources who were indisputably proven to have flat-out lied in their national press conference about the race codes on Obama’s birth certificate?
the newspaper announcement does not give the place of birth , does it?
But, anythng will do to approve the birth, but nothing is acceptable that disproves it?
Is the standard method that one?
Oxymoron.
It was the 2 Iranians with the stolen passports, of course. We know from the LFBC that they can’t forge worth a flip, thus were their flimsy passports discovered!\
Heh. Hard to square that with the “Lookie! Craig Ferguson made a birther joke!” story that made the echoed around the chambers over the weekend. Or have they started a Ferguson death watch…?
I blame the heat for damaging brain cells.
The newspaper announcements prove place of birth insofar as it is Hawaii. The announcements were from the Health Bureau, and the Health Bureau in 1961 only registered births in Hawaii.
There is nothing that says Obama was not born in Hawaii that meets two basic criteria:
1) It has a source
2) The source has a reason to know
Many replies to the left wing loonies who have spouted uninformed, ridiculous drivel about the Surprise Tea Party Patriots and the CCP investigation have been sent, by return emails, in reply in emails received by the TPPTRUTHSQUAD. The moderator of the web site has not posted them, for whatever reason. So, you can wallow in your self-indulgent mental masturbation, if that’s what floats your boat.
That may well be correct. So…..why don’t you (or they) do what Mr. Reilly did and explain why you think that? That would be the honorable thing to do.
Why didn’t you just post the responses on the blog….in direct response to the messages in the thread…..just like everyone else does?
Because he wants to make it look like Doc is censoring him. LOL What a farce.
Sure you received replies on an email.. right how did anyone get your email?
You are hilarious. I have not seen such a great imitation of a clueless birther since Orly’s last court appearance.
His spelling and grammar checker is being overhauled?
There is nothing that disproves it really..
I just heard Brian Reilly went on RC Radio tonight. I don’t have any audio on my computer, can someone please give us a synopsis?
If I was a suspicious sorta guy I might wonder if all the birther crap flying around wasn’t a lame effort to distract from the countdown clock to the end of the month.
But I also know they’re not that well organized so……never mind!
Yes…..but first he has to get Windows 95 upgrade installed since it wasn’t working in 3.1.
He hadn’t shown up by the time I left.
Hes on now he came on about 10 minutes after you left
Mr. Truth squad hit the checkbox to subscribe to comments by email and then failed to read the subscription notice asked him to OPT IN and that he couldn’t post on the bog by replying to those emails.
So he proceeded to flood my mailbox with replies to comments.
I have manually unsubscribed him.
Two words: Dumb. Ass.
If you reply to comment subscriptions, I get them. And here’s the jewels from our truth squadulator (and no it doesn’t make much sense to me either):
D, So are you suggesting that Sheriff Joe lied to me? Where’s your proof for that? Sheriff Joe made that comment to my face. You weren’t there. You don’t know what was said.
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
Reality Check,
Your comment displays complete ignorance of what the CCC does and how they do it. Zullo is a trained investigator, with many years of experience, along with the volunteers who are working this issue. Post YOUR creds or stuff it!
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
Ran Talbott,
How in hell would you know that? When and where did you speak with Reilly? Don’t give me BS, give me solid proof. I’d bet a dollar to a donut that you get a thrill up your leg just seeing your name in public.
TPPTRUTH SQUAD
Historian Dude,
DUHHH! ‘Ya think that maybe, just maybe, that Sheriff Joe already knew what was in the report????
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bgansel9,
What gibberish have you spouted? Scam artist? Robbing seniors? The investigators are ALL volunteers. No one was or is being paid.
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CarlOrcas,
Several attempts have been made, including attempted personal delivery of evidence to members of Congress (some of who refused to accept it). I was there. I saw those attempts. I personally asked Sen. Jeff Flake if he had reviewed the info that had been put out. He said no, and wasn’t going to.
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UNKNOWN POSTER,
Who in hell are you?
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bgansel9,
More evidence of your ignorance, a lack of knowledge about election laws in Arizona. Any citizen can petition the elections department in AZ re the appearance of anyone’s name on a ballot. Hardly anyone has the money to acquire legal talent to pursue that matter. The investigators are all volunteers and THAT was why the Sheriff was asked to start the investigation.
TPPTRUTH SQUAD
CarlOrcas,
You wrote “advancement of his political career”? He’s been suggested several times as a gubernatorial candidate. Always leaves them guessing. Huge amounts of out-of-state money have been given to his opponents. Hasn’t worked yet. He’ll be Sheriff as long as he wants to. And, with dumbocrat voter registrations now the lowest of the 3 classes, and with the overwhelming support he gets from Republicans, he can die with his boots on, if he wants to.
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JoZeppy,
Don’t keep up with the facts, do you? The feds dropped that with no charges. Going on 2 years ago, no less! Lots of county money spent for defense of phony charges.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/31/feds-close-criminal-investigation-into-maricopa-county-sheriff-joe-arpaio/
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Bonsall Obot,
It’s not an anonymous post. The administrator knows the actual address. There are reasons why posters use anonymity. Just like you do.
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One and the same. I made that point earlier.
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CarlOrcas,
Another display of ignorance. The info HAS been offered to Congress. I was there when it was refused by several Congressmen. Zullo has given sworn testimony to the Court in Alabama. Are you that deep in your dream world that you think Zullo is going to run the risk of lying to the Court? It’s far more likely that you’ve formed an opinion based upon ignorance. “Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up”. Here is Zullo’s sworn testimony. Read it and then make an INFORMED comment. http://www.carlgallups.com/zullo-affidavit.pdf
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Mugwhump,
Read this report and then give your apology. http://www.carlgallups.com/zullo-affidavit.pdf
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This comment is to stupid, it doesn’t merit a response.
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Arthur,
You don’t know what you’re spewing! The issue was whether Obama met the state requirements for appearing on the Arizona ballot. That means a “natural born citizen”. Zullo’s investigation was directed to answering that question. The ignorance of the facts among you Obots is jaw-dropping!
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bgansel,
Read my previous post on Sheriff Joe’s involvement.
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nbc,
I’m certain the 3,000+ members of the CCP will verify your claim of their being thrown under the bus.
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Benji Franklin,
Anyone with a smidgeon of intelligence would conclude that your brain train left the station a long time ago, and you weren’t on it.
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jdkinpa,
Satire is a tool best left to skilled writers. And, you ain’t one.
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The Magic M,
Your comment exposes a vast ignorance of what has been discovered, by highly experienced investigators. You’ve substituted the thoughts and opinions of others for informed judgement.
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Keith,
It’s TPPTRUTHSQUAD for a reason. Writing from knowledge, not parroting the blather of those who know not.
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bgansel9,
The STPP was never asked to pay for Corsi’s expenses, although anyone can spend their money for anything they wish to. We did pass the hat for contributions to give some money to Dr. Corsi AFTER he had incurred expenses to speak to our group. Dr. Corsi did NOT ask for anything. We did that as a gesture of appreciation for the effort he made to travel on OUR behalf.
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
The name confusion you are displaying was covered in a previous post. Look it up, IF you keep such info. Fact: The STPP 501(c)4 application was filed in 2010. It, along with almost 100 other TP applications, still has NOT been issued. Yet, every (to my knowledge) application by Progressive groups has been issued. As an integral part of the administration’s abuse of power by failing to issue approvals, many irrelevant questions and types of information were/are being requested.
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
How is one to know where the messages come from? Your messages come by email, and that is the protocol followed when posting a reply. Are my messages sent to the persons to whom I write?
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
oh nos truthsquad broke the internets
From the STPP troll:
“More evidence of your ignorance, a lack of knowledge about election laws in Arizona. Any citizen can petition the elections department in AZ re the appearance of anyone’s name on a ballot.”
Oh, but Barack Obama isn’t running for another term, so why the “Universe Shattering” event again? LOL By that definition, Joe Arpaio should no longer be involved.
Also, STPP troll doesn’t realize I’m IN Arizona. LOL
Actually, the birth announcements alone provides some good evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.
On August 13, 1961, the Honolulu Advertiser ran an announcement of Obama’s birth on August 4.
“We don’t have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System,” a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained to WND. “This is how we’ve always done it.”
So we have these known and established facts, and chain of reasonable (and pretty much inescapable) conclusions.
1. The Honolulu Advertiser ran the announcement on August 4, 9 days after Obama’s birth.
2. They didn’t run their birth announcements because of submissions from the general public. They ran what the Department of Vital Statistics gave them.
3. Obama’s birth announcement was run with that of children born the same week he was — July 30 through August 6.
4. This means the information was sent by the Department of Vital Statistics to the newspaper along with all the other birth announcements from that week.
5. The earliest possible date this could have been done (unlikely) would have been Monday the 7th, and the latest possible date it could have been done would have been Friday the 11th (since government offices aren’t open on Saturday).
6. Even if one believes that the Hawaii Department of Vital Statistics could have registered and reported a birth to someone born outside of Hawaii, then they would have had to have official documentation of the birth to do so.
7. That official documentation would have to have been presented to them by Friday, August 12th, at the very latest in order to make it into the newspaper.
8. There were no fax machines in 1961, or email, and even if there had been, such non-original documents could never have been accepted as proof of birth by the Hawaii Department of Health. Originals were required.
9. There was no FedEx in 1961.
10. Obama’s birth outside of Hawaii would only be meaningful for eligibility purposes if he were born outside of the United States. A birth in California, for example, would be both meaningless for birther purposes, and with no motive whatsoever for faking in Hawaii.
11. It would have been practically speaking if not quite literally IMPOSSIBLE to get any official proof of birth issued in a foreign country, travel from that foreign country arranged, and birth documentation physically transported to Honolulu between the evening of August 4 and the following Friday, August 11. Even if you were literally to spend large amounts of money, you probably could not have done it. It would have required arranging international travel at immediate notice, and particularly from Kenya, it could never have been done. Canada? Maybe. If you wanted to spend a fortune.
12. The Obamas were young students. There is no evidence they had vast fortunes to spend just on trying to get a birth announcement into the Hawaii paper along with those of Obama’s age-mates from the same week.
There are only two possibilities here. One is reasonable, and the other is completely idiotic.
A. One can assume that two young, broke students who lived in Honolulu, Hawaii, isolated in vastness of the Pacific Ocean, close to 4,000 miles from any other significant country, most likely had their baby in… (drum roll, please)…
Honolulu, Hawaii.
Or,
B. One can assume that aside from spending vast amounts of money on international travel, someone also had the great foresight to pay off an official in some other country to post-date Obama’s birth date by at least a week or two, so that his birth announcement could appear in the newspaper along with those of children born in Honolulu between July 30 and August 6.
Why? Because maybe, just maybe, some 47 years later, he might get elected President of the United States.
I’ll leave it to you to decide which theory is idiotic. Yes, that’s a dangerous thing to do, I know. But as the saying goes: You can lead a horse to water. But you can’t give a dumb ass any more sense than the horse.
I wonder why you need to pass the hat when I hear you have many thousands of dollars in donations. $80 grand, was it? Gee, I wonder what all that money goes to?
How much did you give to Mr. and Mrs. Reilly who put out travel expenses?
Here is the link to show:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr/2014/03/12/rc-radio–31114-startling-new-revelations-about-dysfunctional-ccp.mp3?localembed=download
Brian’s call is in the second hour.
bgansel9,
You wrote: “I wonder why you need to pass the hat when I hear you have many thousands of dollars in donations. $80 grand, was it? Gee, I wonder what all that money goes to?”
You are obviously many bricks short of a load. From whom did you hear that? The voices in your head? Y’know, the ones that fill the space between your ears!
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
Well, I guess you’re going to find out soon. I heard that info came from Brian Reilly. I will admit I didn’t actually hear him say it, as I am currently on a computer with no audio capability (I am speakerless) but, I hear it on good authority that Brian Reilly said it and several people here just heard an interview of Brian Reilly and can vouch whether that information is true. I invite them to correct me if I am wrong, but I trust my source is telling the truth.
Oh, classic burn, Truthsquad. I don’t care what other people say, for someone in her seventies, you still got it going on! Jimminy, I haven’t heard a put-down like that since Fred Allen called Jack Benny anemic.
Well, the info is that the CCP took in $80 grand in donations, but, do they not help to pay for events? Are you not a part of the CCP and help them to accomplish this task of removing our president from office? Isn’t Jim Corsi involved in that too? Isn’t the CCP just an arm of the STPP, which came about due to the STPP? Aren’t you all in collusion together? Aren’t you all working together to the best of your ability to do anything and everything to remove our president? Are you not all actually one huge conglomerate?
Oh, and I’m sorry STPP troll, but 501(c)(4)’s are not for political purposes and you should not be receiving any special tax exemption for the activities you are involved in.
And there we have a motive.
bgansel9,
If in fact you’re speaking the truth from “good authority”, you’d be well advised to get a new source of info. Brain Reilly has never known and will never know anything about TPP funds. I do. So, stop spreading crap and hearsay.
TPPTRUTHSQUAD
Brain Reilly said that was how much Zullo told him they had collected when they traveled together in 2012. The number now may be much higher.
Prove it. Not that part about Reilly, but that part that you know all about TPP funds.
Anonymous experts are anonymous for reason.
Yup!
Thank you for verifying RC.
I guess Zullo’s been holding out on you, huh?
No honor among grifters. Or birthers.
Helen
I just read the passport regulations again. What you quoted only applies to people applying obtaining a passport for the first time. Obama made trips to eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa as a Senator in 2005-2006.
Ҥ 51.42 Persons born in the United States applying for a passport for the first time.
(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant’s place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.”
I believe the answer to all of your questions is “No” (although it’s not clear whether Corsi has really left birfering. He said he did last year, but he lies. So that one might be a “Yes”. Again. Or still.).
The CCP existed for about 5 years before it got into birfering. It appears, from the scarcity of online info about it, that it was pretty much moribund for a good while. But it’s entirely possible that they really were helping the real cops with cold cases behind the scenes, and just didn’t get much credit for it in the press.
I think the reason Shurf Joe picked the CCP as the home for the Birfer Squad is that it’s not as closely tied to the MCSO as some of the other posses. Since this was basically a political stunt, Arpaio wanted some distance from the real policing (and, possibly, some plausible deniability should things get wacky. As they have).
So, you might say that the STPP is the “father” of the Birfer Squad, but the CCP is raising it as a “single mother” 😉 They may see one another occasionally, but they’re not “married”, and aren’t sharing finances.
Zullo has said that he considers all the “work product” of the CCP to be his personal poperty. He may feel the same way about the money.
Sources state that there are 3,000 members of the CCP, which appears to be the same 3,000 that are in all of the posses. See the new thread. While I can’t say whether all STPP members are posse members, I’d bet my life savings that a large majority are.
Fax machines existed in 1961. In fact newspaper photos were transmitted across long distances using what was then called “radio facsimile”. There were also working versions that transmitted via dedicated lines. However, a working version using phone lines is what revolutionized the technology.
There’s no way that a health dept on Hawaii would have sprung for the money for this kind of equipment though.
Was it personally verified by Onaka? I remember he’s been personally ascribed to have done two things personally in the whole Obama birth certificate saga. One was to personally view Obama’s birth certificate along with Dr. Fukino to verify that nothing was wrong with it. The other was to personally oversee the creation of the copies made of the “long form” for Obama. Other than that, was the verification a function of the office?
I seem to recall that the verifications sent to the various government agencies and committees contained an identical reproduction of Onaka’s signature. By the same token, every vital record copy I have contains a facsimile of whoever was in charge. Every school transcript or verification of attendance has a stamp or reproduction of the signature of the registrar. So just from a purely operational point of view, did Onaka actually verify it, or did his lieutenants (legally) perform these functions on his behalf.
This is purely a pedantic exercise on my part, as the verifications would normally be proof enough in a court of law. Heck – I got married in a civil ceremony at the county recorder and needed a copy of the certificate for various reasons. The county clerk wasn’t there to sign it but the county employee who performed the ceremony stamped the county clerk’s name in a stamp with block letters and filed it just like that. And his reproduced signature was also on the page, so it looks a bit odd that way. However, this has been pretty much valid for any reason we needed it.
*snort*
Well noted. Amazingly, early fax technology was around in the mid-1800s.
I wasn’t necessarily speaking in an absolute technical sense, but in a practical sense: Fax machines as we know them didn’t come into widespread use until after 1961.
Even early-model telephone-connectable fax machines don’t seem to have been generally available on the marketplace until several years after 1961. From elsewhere on the internet:
And yeah, I’m quoting some random person.
Again, even if they had been available, and in the HDOH office, there’s no way that office would have accepted a fax from somewhere as an acceptable proof of birth. Not then, not now.
I’ve listened to Mr. Reilly’s interview at Reality Check Radio.
As extraordinary as his letter.
Some of the takeaways:
1) The Cold Case Posse didn’t run an honest, unbiased investigation. Instead, they simply set out to promote a particular narrative. Anyone who’s been paying attention knew that already, but it’s extraordinary to hear an inside publicly admit it.
2) As of 2012, they had reportedly raised $80,000 from those who liked the narrative they were promoting.
3) They don’t file 990s, because they claim to be part of a governmental entity, which would exempt them. Meanwhile, Arpaio disavows that they’re part of his office.
4) There appears to be no financial accountability, either to Arpaio’s office, or to anyone outside of the CCP, of any kind.
5) Because of #3, I think they’re in violation of the law. If Arpaio says they aren’t part of the MCSO, then they’re not part of any governmental entity. Thus, they are required to file 990s. That they haven’t done so means they are lawbreakers.
6) So they’ve raised $80,000 from the public for a crusade that was never an honest investigation, but which was publicly claimed to be. All the while claiming to be an exempt governmental body when they aren’t. Frankly, I’d call that fraud.
I would also call breaking the law while claiming to uphold it a bit hypocritical.
Seems to me that someone could (and should) get into some deep doo-doo here.
I don’t: I infer it, with a high level of confidence, from your public statements and his.
Not at all. I did, a little, back in the days when I was writing books and magazine articles. But never from posting on message boards or internet sites.
You, otoh, seem to have a real fear of it, since you feel the need to hide behind a pseudonym.
What “highly trained investigators”? None of the people identified as being part of the CCP fit that description.
Your “highly trained investigators”:
FAILED to discover that “African” was not only a commonly used term for race in colonized Africa, it was an official legal term in Kenya.
FAILED to discover that Hawaii was NOT coding BCs for the feds in 1961.
FAILED to notice that the coding standard they used did not match the fields on the BC that were being coded.
FAILED to discover the procedure Hawaii followed for central processing of BCs in 1961.
FAILED to discover that business machines in common use, including in the White House, produce multi-layer PDFs with the “anomalies” they claim are “proof of forgery”.
FAILED to discover that a PDF on a website is NOT an “official document”.
FAILED to even IDENTIFY, by chapter and section, the “felonies” that they claim were committed.
FAILED to produce even a single piece of admissible evidence.
And, finally, LIED to the public by claiming that they were running “an official law enforement investigation” when it never was such, and, according to admissions by Gallups, was never even intended as such.
Which makes them, not just incompetent, but con artists.
Thanks for taking the time to listen. I’ve run out of steam for the day but, if you don’t mind, a couple questions with some thoughts:
Does Reilly ever acknowledge that it wasn’t a legal investigation? Does he provide any information about how case records were handled….whether the MCSO ever assigned a case number, etc.?
That’s more than I expected….if it’s accurate. Add another couple years of fund raising and they are well into six figures I suspect. Does Reilly explain how the money was spent?
Yep. Can’t have it both ways. I’ve included links to the 990’s for the most active community posses and, as you’ll see, they’re big business. Lots of assets and cash but they are doing it the right way……transparency and accountability.
Did Reilly say if he ever tried to get Zullo to fix the filing trap and start preparing and filing 990’s?
Bingo! I think this may be a part of what Reilly was concerned about vis a vis personal liability. Did he say if he was ever an officer or director of the posse? I don’t find his name on any of the annual filings with the Arizona Corporation Commission http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=13342890&type=CORPORATION
Whether it is technically fraud within the meaning of the law is a topic for another discussion but it certainly is incredibly hypocritical (as you note) coming from the country’s toughest sheriff.
One might add that the great majority of what they failed to discover was, in fact, uncovered – and previously publicized – by amateur sleuths on the internet.
One gets the feeling that these “highly experienced investigators” couldn’t locate parts of their own anatomy even if supplied with a helpful chart from World Book Encyclopedia.
Not that I noticed or recall.
He probably says some things that touch upon that subject, but specifically, no.
One wonders how much of the money raised has gone into “salary” for Zullo. As well as what benefits, direct and indirect, that Corsi and Arpaio may have received. Enquiring minds would like to know.
Others will answer here, but I don’t believe so. What did come across to me was that Reilly, being an individual with some actual honesty and integrity, didn’t take long to get uncomfortable with the way things were being run, and, in particular, with the way the “investigation” was being conducted, and then to quietly bail out. Can’t say I blame him.
Not that I recall. He said there were about 3 active investigators, and he was one of them. But I certainly get the feeling he wasn’t in a position to call the shots. And that would be why he quit. If he could’ve called the shots, I get the impression he would’ve conducted a fair, balanced, proper and genuine investigation.
That and more. But one has a wrist that didn’t heal in its original shape after being smashed by a drunk driver, so one must limit the number of times one twists the knife in a given session 😉
Sounds like a private enterprise.
amazng change of events here,
All birthers are crazy nuts, won’t believe the evidence, are untrustworthy, and are to be scorned.
And a big birther, part of the CCP, Joe’s Posse, changes his position and is accorded the status of an anti-birher who is honest, trustworthy, tells the truth, and is to be totally believed in whatever he espouses, as he must be telling the truth now that he has seen the light!
A newspaper clipping is sufficient evidence to validate your personal belief that Obama was born in Hawaii, and I will agree that it is just as possible as not possible. But,heck, no recorded document is guaranteed by anyone to be the absolute truth, and all of them are challengeable in the public view and in the legal system
I remember that early on, the Post Office made a big deal of running them. They promoted the idea that they wouldn’t need to physically move paper from one part of the country to another.
Was that as far back as 1961? My memory doesn’t include that detail, but if it was, the DoH would not need to have the equipment, just the US Postal Service. On the other hand, the document would have to have been SENT from somewhere. Did Kenya have the technology? Is the Pope a Hindu?
That might be hard work for almost anyone I imagine.
On the other hand I suspect that they couldn’t figure out how to pour water out of a cowboy boot even if you told them the instructions were printed on the bottom of the heal.
Of course they were Muricans who went on the stolen passports. (And all later “identifications” of said persons as Iranians/whatever are just lies by the Almighty Konspiracee [tm].)
At least that’s the answer you’d get from a birther. 😉
Yes, as it regards Zullo, that is the big question. We know that he and Corsi shared the proceeds of the first e-book. Arpaio only makes $78.000 a year from the county but don’t forget the $3.5 million he has sitting in his unused contributions that, as I recall, he can convert to his person use if he decides not to run for another term as sheriff.
That’s my impression as well and I give him credit for getting out and for letting the public know why.
Doc also mentioned the possibility of a second article from Mr Reilly…I hope he does.
Funny you should mention that. I came across this yesterday and got a good laugh.
http://thechive.com/2014/03/11/this-is-what-happens-when-a-group-of-adults-are-asked-to-label-the-male-and-female-reproductive-system-18-hq-photos/
I just listened to the Reilly portion of last evening’s RC show. Very interesting. One thing I found fascinating was Mr. Reilly’s “questions” before the AZ SOS got the verification from Hawaii. If he was really a law officer why would he not know that a PDF on a website is not a legal document that anyone should be questioning? The only thing of legal significance is the paper document that the PDF was made from. Maybe it’s because of his statement that he was totally in bed with the Tea Party and was thus brainwashed.
But kudos to Mr. Reilly for “coming out”.
I often wish that Hawaii’s security paper would show some tell-tale “Invalid” message when copied (like checks) so we wouldn’t have had all this nonsense.
Your comment is a significant misrepresentation of the facts.
First, there is no blanket of approval given to Brian Reilly. In fact there is significant criticism of him and skepticism among the anti-birther community (some of which is here and some private). What Reilly has going for him is that he is in a position to know what he claims. If he said these things in court, they would be admissible as evidence, unlike most of what birthers rely on.
One authority I cited believes that the newspaper announcement of Obama’s birth is the most incontrovertible piece of evidence because it is demonstrably contemporary and not subject to manipulation. However, no one is relying on that alone. We have 3 signed verifications from the Hawaii Department Health, the DoH FAQ on Obama and no less than two birth certificates.
If all you’re going to do is lie, you’re not welcome here.
LOL!! Is that the search result you got from Googling “man milk” and “baby chute”? 😀
Nice demonstration of some of the main reasons are scorned: false dichotomies, ridiculous stereotypes, and hysterical exaggerations.
What a ridiculous strawman.
What we have is a former birther who explains his ignorance on certain matters and describes the inner ‘workings’ of the Cold Case Posse and how he was convinced by the certification by the Department of Health. It shows the evolution from ignorance, through facts and data, to an evolved position. Is he totally trustworthy? I do not know, however I do know that he was one of the driving forces to get the Cold Case Posse involved and therefore his comments have real relevance to these issues.
The Cold Case Posse can do two things: Rebut or ignore. As they did with the Xerox workflow, I predict they will ignore, or at ‘best’ they will try to rebut through non sequiturs and personal attacks on Mr Reilly.
The relevance of Reilly is that he has removed the curtain behind which the CCP was hiding, and it does not show a very impressive picture. Much had already been inferred but it is nice to have independent confirmation.
So Helen, given the appearance of these new data, how are you doing? Or are you treating it similarly to your claims about the birth certificate? Raise irrelevant, or unsupported issues, rather than incorporate the known facts into a coherent and consistent explanation?
The alternative is to rebut Reilly’s claims, but that requires some real effort, logic and reasoning skills.
Helen, I deal with evidence all the time. I have to evaluate what I believe and which is worthy of being presented to a court. We ask questions of ourselves–what is the source, can it be confirm or verified, does the information make sense, is it consistent with other things we know to be true?
The state of Hawaii certified and verified the BC several times. The newspaper announcements are consistent with that. The certification by the State of Hawaii is entitled to full faith and credit under the US Constitution.
On the other hand, birther “evidence” is all speculation, rumors and conclusions. Where is the actual evidence? Why are so many birther memes mutually exclusive?
Excellent, helen! You’re making progress. Keep going.
It’s a good thing your blatant bigotry, biases and lies really don’t amount to Jack squat.
Get it? Jack squat! Isn’t that amazng (sic) and awesome!
People here were talking about the “Obama’s date of birth is unproven” nonsense from John, and I got an idea for the birthers: why not focus on it and make it a new birther issue, in order to introduce something new to the stale birther repertoire. It will be fun. Here’s a demonstration:
———-
WHEN EXACTLY was Soebarkah born??!! His date of birth is UNCONFIRMED!!! HOW can we be sure that he was 35 when sworn in??!! Documental evidence? FAKED!!! All people who say that they remember him at ages consistent with the official story? They were BRIBED or THREATENED!!! Or maybe Soebarkah has one of these RARE DISEASES which make you look older then you are!!! After all, even many healthy people look different from their actual ages – HOW can we be sure Soebarkah is not one of them??!! We demand a GENETIC TEST!!!!
Soebarkah DELIBERATELY PAID his agents to make noise about his citizenship, so that we would ignore the REAL ISSUE – his AGE!!!
——–
It will be a shocker at Birther Report!
Astronomers reported today that at least several thousand stars in a galaxy over 40 million light years from earth were seen being destroyed as they collided with each other over 40 million years ago; thanks, Obama!
I’m gathering this information up into an Astronomer’s Kit suitable for patriots to take to their member of Congress to demand a FULL CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION of teenage Obama’s dating habits and middle-age Obama’s underpants.
Has anyone seen the birthers attacking Reilly’s story and interview? It seems that they hope if they don’t say anything it didn’t happen.
By refusing to accept the authenticity of any recorded document, you conveniently put yourself in a position where you can and will refuse to accept any and all evidence of Obama’s birth. That is an intellectually dishonest position to take, because you have set a standard of proof which is impossible to meet.
I just returned from a trip to California, According to your standard of proof, I should not have been allowed to board the plane because the proof of my identity (a New York driver’s license) could have been a forgery, since according to you “no recorded document is guaranteed by anyone to be the absolute truth.” Nevertheless, the TSA officers allowed me to board, because (a) my driver’s license appears to be real, (b) the photo on the license looks like me, and (c) the name on the license matches the name on my boarding pass. Furthermore, TSA had no evidence that I was anyone other than the person I claimed to be. And where do you suppose that DMV got verification of my date of birth? From my birth certificate, of course.
In the case of Obama, the State of Hawaii has verified that it has an original birth certificate on file which says that he was born in Hawaii; the signatures on the birth certificate match those of a doctor who was delivering babies in Honolulu in 1961 and of the person who was the registrar in 1961; and there are contemporaneous newspaper notices in both Honolulu newspapers which announced his birth. To overcome that evidence you need real evidence that Obama was born somewhere else. And that is where you birthers have always come up short – you do not have a scintilla of evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than in Hawaii.
That’s a very poor standard you have and totally unworkable as well.
But first some details: A newspaper clipping is sufficient evidence to support one’s birth place and date. Given a birth certificate, one can determine that the probability of it being correct is very high, not ‘as possible as not possible’. You forget that we can look at real examples and test your assumptions.
So the a priori estimate is much higher than you are willing to admit. Fine, I understand your personal reluctance to do so.
And yes, no document is perfect, however in the legal realm, a document like the certified copy of President Obama’s COLB or LFBC is prima facie evidence and you need to overcome this by showing that there exist evidence that places doubt on the veracity of said document.
Saying: Well, the document may be accurate or not is not sufficient to count as a legal challenge.
In the public view the standard for ‘challenges’ are much lower but also have little relevance, as they are just personal opinions of people who do not appear to like our President.
The fact that the president has provided his COLB, his LFBC and that several letters of verification have been issued, makes the facts quite unassailable in a court of law. Combine this with birth announcement information and other ‘incidental’ information and you see how the admissible data present an extremely strong case that cannot be overcome by foolish analyses of PDF files, or claims of ever expanding conspiracies.
Exactly. Under Helen’s standard nothing can ever be sufficiently proven to her personal satisfaction. Luckily this is not how the courts work and why the courts will continue to find in favor of our President because not only the facts show a strong prima facie case, but also because there is no admissible evidence to counter the nature of the data and facts.
Mere speculation or wishful thinking are not admissible approaches. Under Helen’s ‘standard’ she would not even be interested in additional data as the same ‘standard’ would allow her to dismiss anything that does not meet her ‘standards’, or in other words, anything that does not support her worldview.
Other than by calling him a traitor etc? No so far I believe their hope was that Dr C’s story was false.
Falcon did at first over at BR. He posted some of Reilly’s old Birther comments. An anonymous commenter claimed that Reilly was all wrong and Joe has new evidence. BR of course made that comment an new post.
http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/03/obot-shattering-sheriff-joe-arpaio.html
For those of you who believe in the sanctity of Vital Records I offer this,from the state of Maryland. yes, I know it is not Hawaii, but it simply shows that there is still a problem with the inssuance of birth certificate.:
“The Department of Health and Mental Hygiene issues birth, death and marriage certificates. There are registration and copying fees for all of the certificates, which brought in $7 million in fiscal year 2010.
More important than revenues, birth certificates are used to prove citizenship and get important documents – like driver’s licenses and passports – as well as benefits like Social Security and temporary welfare.
At the state level, information for birth certificates is entered into a computer database. However, the audit noted, the information entered into the database had not been verified with hospitals since the employee who used to have that responsibility left state employment in 2008. And when records were changed to reflect things like spelling errors or changes in paternity information, nobody independently reviewed them. Auditors found that a total of 17 employees were able to make changes to birth certificates.
There was no review of applications for certified birth certificates, either, auditors found. There were 26 users who could both create and print certified birth certificates; there was one who had access to blank certificates, and two with access to related collections. This means fraudulent certified birth certificates could have been created and not caught. And there were no periodic checks on the blank and numbered birth certificates, meaning that nobody made sure that all of the blanks were accounted for.”
Read more: http://marylandreporter.com/2011/08/19/health-department-failed-to-control-birth-certificates-auditors-find-citing-possible-fraud/#ixzz2vnAggCnL
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution”
The mood of many of the BR comments has taken on the “we are in the last days” tone of pentecostal revivalists lately. March has come and is half gone and they’re not depressed. Just the opposite!
Like a congregation preparing for a faith-demonstrating mass suicide, every sequential restatement of their belief in the impending event of salvation brushes aside the reality that it has not happened. Zullo’s flipped penny has landed on tails for over 700 days in a row, so they take from that impossibly long string of failures, a heartening belief that it’s getting more likely every toss, that it will land on heads ending Obama’s Presidency!
Of course, the reality is that Zullo’s penny has two tails. It will never land on heads because he’s a loser for their bankrupt cause, just like Taitz, Kerchner, Donofrio, Mario, BR, Gallups, Manning, Farah, Keys, and the whole Birther Klown Klan!
In a few days we will be halfway through March and the universe is still intact.
Correction Rickey, the birther universe has been shattered.
Wow! So…..what you’re saying is that it’s possible Spiro Agnew could really be Obama’s father?? Cool.
Which doesn’t seem to have triggered much discussion of “Reillygate”.
Although there were a couple of gems among the people making excuses for the delay in the shattering of the universe:
Which sort of suggests the Clueless Clowns tossing stuff they found on their scavenger hunts in Banker’s Boxes without really thinking about it, then sitting down to go through them and discovering that each half of their pile disproves the other half. Wouldn’t that progress review meeting make a fun Youtube video…
Obviously, someone who’s never read any of the debunkings that follow their news conferences…
Yeah, right: all the much-reviled “Lamestream Media™” and “corrupt Congressmen” are suddenly going to reveal that they’ve been conducting Sup3r S3kr1t Investimigations for years, and shatter the universe by revealing that they agreed with birfers all along.
Maybe those people who argued against legalizing marijuana had a point…
And did the audit turn up any evidence of actual fraudulent birth certificates?
No, it did not.
The State of Hawaii has been issuing birth certificates for 55 years and you birthers have not been able to identify a single fraudulent one.
That’s not a result of marijuana, it’s a result of smoking crack!
helen,
The theoretical possibility, however remote, that something COULD be true is not evidence that it IS true.
Or… I suppose we could take this and run with it.
It is theoretically possible that you’re secretly Kim Jong-Un, engaging in a weird birther fetish.
Wow. Hey! I just proved that Helen is secretly Kim Jong-Un!!!!!!!!
Now if we can just get a bunch of people (the more the better) claiming that helen is secretly Kim Jong-Un, and build half a dozen web sites claiming helen is Kim Jong-Un, and get Jerome Corsi to write articles saying we have “proof” that helen is Kim Jong-Un, and demand that she provide proof she isn’t, and reject any and all proof she might provide, and produce several nutjob “experts” (paging Doug Vogt) who will call anyone who disagrees with the idea that helen is Kim Jong-Un a “traitor” and various similar names…
Wow, that’ll make it REALLY true.
Oh!
And if we can get a sheriff somewhere to put together a group of “expert investigators” (we can have this led by a used-car salesman who served a year or two as a policeman in some small town for added authority), and have them do a blatantly one-sided “investigation” designed beforehand to reject any and all evidence helen isn’t Kim Jong-Un, then it’ll REALLY, REALLY be true that HELEN IS KIM JONG-UN!
And if we can find enough people who really want to believe the tale, maybe we can get them to give money to support our “investigation.”
$80,000. I want $80,000. Oh, and a cop car.
Mental Hygiene prevents Truth Decay.
Can we raise a few thousand here for a web site? Maybe $5,000 at least? I’m going to need to pay some professionals to set up a WordPress blog so that we can get the truth out.
This investigation is so important that I’m personally taking charge.
We have some explosive evidence coming up in April that blows away all of helen’s protestations that she’s not Kim Jong-Un. Folks, you are not going to believe what our investigators have already uncovered. I can’t say too much publicly right now, as this is an official criminal investigation in progress. But we are in need of funds to support this important investigation.
I’m telling you, this stuff is so explosive that one of our female research assistants fainted and we had to bring in a troup of Labrador puppies to lick her face and revive her. It’s that serious, and that shocking, folks. This is serious business.
We also appreciate your prayers. We are actually in a certain amount of fear for our safety, given that we’re dealing with Kim Jong-Un here, and he has many sleeper spies here on US soil. This is a tough job, but someone has to do it, and get the truth out. Fortunately we’ve been promised some protection from Interpol and Scotland Yard.
Wanna see my badge?
First you have to give us your full name, address, Social Security number, and fingerprints, so we can make sure that the “truth” you want to “get out” is really truthy.
Plus we’ll need to track your financials to make sure you don’t blow the money on booze and British publicity whores.
Yup, but even if that had been the case in Hawaii, which it hasn’t, you couldn’t possibly have created a fraudulent BC that looked like it was created in 1961. Unless you’re one of those who want to claim the Conspiracy began back in 1961.
For the same reason, we don’t start to doubt the validity of dollar notes simply because someone once was able to print perfect counterfeits, or stole a real dollar printing plate.
Give it to me! I promise none of the Brits I associate with want publicity, and I won’t be the one doing the blowing.
Hey, I resemble that remark…. >8-)
My former company did the Maryland vital records system and I worked on the project some myself. Of course, we didn’t set who got to look at and change records.
In Maryland, as in many states, certificate data is actually entered directly by hospitals, either by direct entry with the VR software application, or by an export of data from a medical records system. Normally the workflows set up require a final review by someone at the Department of Health before the record is accepted.
What is important to note with the Maryland system is that every record access and change is logged. Even if someone made an unauthorized change, the original data is still retained, and any fraud would be readily apparent from viewing the change log.
In addition to the fees collected for copying records, VR agencies receive payment for statistical data extracts from the National Center for Health Statistics, and for verified death data from the Social Security Administration.
Thank heavens! This fraud that Hel-Un is perpetrating must be shattered. Please, Commander Publius, can I join your posse? I don’t need a Crown Vic or anything, but if I could get a badge, that would be neat-o! And maybe a ticket to whatever planet Dennis Rodman lives on, ‘cuz I know he has information that would blow the lid of Hel-Un’s treachery.
I’m so excited, I’m just gonna take the oath of office now, and expedite this whole process:
I, “CRUSTY” CRUSTACEAN, DO SWEAR THAT I WILL WELL AND TRULY SERVE OUR SOVEREIGN COUNTRY AND STATE AS A FAKE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WITHOUT FAVOR OR AFFECTION, MALICE OR ILL-WILL, UNTIL IT SUITS MY PURPOSES, THAT I WILL SEE AND CAUSE OUR COMMUNITY’S PARANOIA LEVEL TO BE KEPT AND
HEIGHTENED, AND THAT I WILL PREVENT TO THE BEST OF MY POWER ALL OFFENSES THAT MY IMAGINATION CAN CONJURE, AND THAT – WHILE I AM NOT A REAL POLICE OFFICER – I WILL, TO THE BEST OF MY QUESTIONABLE SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE DISCHARGE ALL THE DUTIES THEREOF, FAITHFULLY, ACCORDING TO COMMANDER PUBLIUS’S WHIMSY. SO HELP ME SOROS.
P.S. Commander Publius, can my entry-level rank be set to admiral? I’ve always wanted to be an admiral.
Can I be delivery boy and date the one-eyed
alienmutant beauty?Birth certificate fraud never happened n Hawaii? Because I can not prove it?
Are you so confident that you ignore court cases where the wrong father was deliberatly named on the BC?
And the fact that adopting parents are named on BC’s as actual parents.
And the reason for non access is to protect those practices.
Oh. well.
HIPPA, prevents investigators from detemining fraudulent medical practices?
The point about Hawaii is that various birthers have claimed that Hawaii was a hotbed of vital records fraud (one of Zullo’s points) without ever producing so much as a single example since Hawaii became a state.
An informant providing false information (such as the name of the father) is a completely different thing than a hospital faking the time and place of birth, or a state health director colluding in fraud.
HIPAA (not HIPPA) does not prevent investigation of fraud. If you’re interested, read the Privacy Rule for yourself.
You were banned long ago, and recently allowed to comment. That special dispensation is over and the ban is back in force.
You can’t prove it and there is no record of it ever happening. The only conclusion which can be drawn is that Hawaii does an outstanding job of maintaining the integrity of its vital records.
I don’t care if the wrong father was named on Obama’s birth certificate. All I care about is that he was born in Hawaii.
That’s not the only reason. Access to birth certificates in most states also is restricted to help combat identify theft.
You are an obstinate troll and I am happy that Doc has once again chosen to ban you.
Such subtleties as the difference between
a) a mom deliberately filling out the wrong dad on a birth certificate form, and
b) a massive conspiratorial fraud involving a few dozen state department of health officials, governors of both parties, at least 1 forger, law enforcement personnel across the country, the FBI, the CIA, all of the leaders of both political parties, commenters on the internet, the entire American news media including all the really big radio personalities of both parties, every member of Congress, and pretty much every judge in the country,
are generally lost on birfers.
Believe it or not, there IS a distinction between a) and b).
Have you got a bathtub and a boat that’ll fit in it? If so, I think we can muster the Admiral title for you.
I’ll tell you what. I’m going to go ahead and presume that you’ve got the required equipment. If you don’t have the boat, you can get ’em in the Wal-Mart aisle next to the yo-yos.
Admiral Crusty it is, then. Welcome to the team, Admiral!
Things are happening really fast now in this investigation. We haven’t come up with an official moniker. We need something with a great and important ring to it, kind of like “Cold Case Posse,” but different.
I’m thinking of calling it the Official Special Hel-Un Investigation Team.
Sorry, but we don’t have delivery boys. They’re just not important enough.
I can, however, make you a Special Investigative Agent. Will that do?
As for alien mutant beauties, I’m currently short on those. Unless Admiral Crusty has one up his sleeve, we’ll have to issue some sort of call for volunteers.
Oh my gosh! I’m all verklempt here. This is such an honor. Thank you!
Admiral Crusty reporting for duty to the S.H.I.T. Posse, Commander! Per your orders, I have procured one tiny submarine, and already this operation has hit pay dirt. While I was at Amazon browsing for my fleet, I discovered a book: “Kim Il-song’s North Korea” written by – and this is where things get creepy – Helen-Louise Hunter.
So how does this “Helen” person know so much about Kim Jong-un’s grandfather? Hmmm? Coincidence? Puh-leeeeeze!!
Commander, I think this is going to be big. Huge. Multiverse torpedoing, even! We may need a bigger PayPal button.
Sorry, typo! That was supposed to be the O.S.H.I.T. Posse.
You seem to still be missing some of the subtleties of life, logic, and common sense here. Perhaps I can help your confusion.
I’ve no doubt that “birth certificate fraud” has happened in Hawaii, and in every other state.
But you’re missing a couple of major elephants in the room (as well as a few screws.)
There’s a difference between “birth certificate fraud” and what you claim has happened (on the basis of LITERALLY no real evidence whatsoever).
You claim (on the basis of LITERALLY no real evidence whatsoever) that Hawaii STATE OFFICIALS of both parties have mounted a massive conspiratorial fraud.
That’s just stupid.
It wouldn’t be stupid if it had real evidence to back it up, but there isn’t any.
Oh, but “expert blah blah blah blah blah.” “Sheriff Arpaio blah blah blah blah blah.” “Investigation blah blah blah blah blah.”
The birther “experts” have had literally tons of total bs disproved point by point, and completely failed to rebut the debunkings of their crap. They’ve been shown to be quacks and frauds so many times it isn’t even funny.
And Sheriff Arpaio? He has nothing at all except the “experts” I just mentioned in the preceding paragraph.
And “investigation?” That itself has been shown to be a sham and a fraud over and over.
So all we have is stupidity on top of stupidity on top of bullcrap.
Once again, apples and oranges. Ah, but if you’re a BIRTHER, then the existence of “birth certificate fraud” (a woman lies to the DOH about who the father’s identity) is evidence of “birth certificate fraud” (massive conspiracy by hundreds of thousands of people in official positions).
One of the fallacies here is the failure to recognize that the same word or phrase can be applied to describe two significantly different things.
We might admit that your birther efforts, for example, are a disaster. While that’s an accurate description, it doesn’t mean or even imply that your birther efforts are the resulting condition of a catastrophic weather assault which has left thousands of people homeless and which requires large-scale immediate humanitarian assistance.
I’ve no idea what your point is here, as once again it’s completely irrelevant to Obama’s birth certificate. There’s been no report or suggestion that Barack Obama Jr. was adopted by Barack Obama Sr.
All of which illustrates the utter imbecilic moronity of the whole birther narrative. It’s basically, “Look! A squirrel! It’s furry! Aha! Therefore, means the President of the United States is ineligible!”
BTW, say hi to Dennis Rodman for me.
Great work, Admiral!
Definitely.
We’re still developing the official protocols. At this point, “Posse” isn’t part of the name. Too copycat.
And no periods, please. None of the really important agencies (FBI, CIA, NSA, MTV) have them. Our official moniker is the “Official Special Hel-Un Investigation Team.” Or just OSHIT for short.
Sorry, that should’ve been “hundreds OR thousands.”
I believe that the point is that the birth certificates of people adopted at birth generally list the adoptive parents rather than the biological ones (this is the case with my birth certificate). This is nothing but a red herring on Helen’s part since while this can result in inaccurate information on a birth certificate, it has nothing whatsoever to do with President Obama since even the birthers don’t claim he was adopted at birth. It does beg the question of why Helen never objected to the eligibility of Tom Vilsack (a foundling).
True.
Were you adopted at birth?
I’m curious what the procedure is here. I would think that in an adoption that takes place after birth, the date on the birth certificate is going to be a certain amount of time after the birth.
But what of an adoption that takes place when the baby is born? Is there adoption paperwork that has to be completed first, or is a birth certificate simply issued in the name of the adoptive parents?
Perhaps someone can enlighten us on the procedure.
“Birth certificates” are mostly obsolete in the US. It’s all databases and medical records systems. All live births are treated the same naming the real mother and the real father if known. All of the medical data on mother, child, and the delivery is collected for statistical purposes in this record. Typically an adoption is a separate record (as are amendments, corrections and modifications). The adoption record is entered after the birth record, and after receipt of the court order effecting the adoption.
When someone applies for a certified copy to be issued (what is called a “birth certificate,” the appropriate items are abstracted from the computer database for the printed form, showing updated parental data fields, but the original date of birth. The date of issuance is the date it is printed.
Particular rules and data fields vary from state to state, but what I’ve described fits at least a dozen states.
I can’t tell you about the procedure (I wasn’t paying attention at the time…), but I was adopted at birth and my birth certificate lists my adoptive parents without any indication that they were not my birth parents. Obviously, the original state records are sealed (as, I assume, are the records of the hospital where I was born—it was small enough that maternity admittance records would almost certainly provide my mother’s name). One of the reasons that birthers piss me off so is that they say that I’m not a natural born citizen.
Doc,
I’m not sure how what you said would apply in my case. I have only ever had the one birth certificate (presumably issued around when I was adopted, about a month or so after I was born) which, as I said, shows no indication that it is amended or altered, although I don’t know what would appear if I got a new abstract.
Special Police Officer, Conspiracy Krew (S.P.O.C.K.) would be nice, thankyouverymuch.
oh my such impressive determination, watch out North Korea………..Hel-Un didn’t know she was tangling with people like you!
and well done too for bringing a broad smile to my face as I am in ‘please hold’ hell with my work computer nohelp desk……… and grow desperate for escape.
Hundreds AND Thousands maybe?
I an not an expert, but I expect that the record that describes your live birth event is ‘under seal’ due to your adoption as Helen describes it. That record will contain the name of your Birth Mother at least.
Because that record is sealed, your Birth Certificate is prepared from your adoption record. The live birth record is not amended, it is just not referenced.
While I am not an adoptee like you, I understand and have sympathy for the desire of many adoptees to break through this wall of silence, if only due to the need to understand biological ancestry for disease management or even organ matching.
My niece and nephew were adopted and they just “wanted to know”. My nephew especially enjoys have met his biological father and has a great relationship with him. He works a Yellowstone and both families have regular get-togethers there.
What I described is for children born today. But I think the basic procedure is the same. When someone is born there is a record of their birth. And when someone is adopted there is a new record created that stands in front of the old record so that the old record is not seen without authority. Still the original record had to have been created, no matter when the adoption, because of the health statistics reporting requirement. I mean, it would be absurd to record the number of weeks of prenatal care for the adopting mother.
For general information on adoptions from a vital records standpoint (as well as amendments and corrections), you might refer to the Model Vital Statistics Act, which is a recommended template for state legislation:
http://www.naphsis.org/about/Documents/FinalMODELLAWSeptember72011.pdf
Start around line 1510.
We’re obviously new to this super-sekrit investimagination thing. One day in, and both of us have already posted corrections – complete with apologies – for erroneous comments. Shouldn’t we just be ignoring any errors we make?