Numbers in a mid-July Rasmussen poll reported today show a remarkable similarity in the number of people who believe Obama is not an American citizen and the number of people who believe that the US government was complicit in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
| Question | Yes | Undecided | No |
| Obama not US Citizen | 23% | 17% | 60% |
| US knew about 9/11 in advance and did nothing | 24% | 19% | 57% |
| Space aliens crashed at Roswell, New Mexico | 20% | 33% | 47% |
| Moon landing fake | 14% | 12% | 74% |
Now, what do you think?
Is President Obama not an American citizen?
- No (71%, 117 Votes)
- Yes (26%, 42 Votes)
- Undecided (3%, 5 Votes)
Total Voters: 164
Loading ...Did the US Government know about 9/11 in advance and did nothing?
- No (80%, 118 Votes)
- Yes (10%, 15 Votes)
- Undecided (10%, 14 Votes)
Total Voters: 147
Loading ...Did space aliens crash at Roswell, New Mexico
- No (74%, 105 Votes)
- Undecided (14%, 20 Votes)
- Yes (11%, 16 Votes)
Total Voters: 141
Loading ...Were the moon landings faked?
- No (96%, 141 Votes)
- Yes (3%, 4 Votes)
- Undecided (1%, 2 Votes)
Total Voters: 147
Loading ...Read more:
- Crazification factor – Rational Wiki
- May 2014 YouGov Poll on presidential eligibility
Any indication as to what size/kind/bias of group Rasmussen is polling? I’m not disputing their outcome, just trying to figure out what kind of bias sample you’d have to select for to get roughly a quarter of them certifiably crazy/clueless.
Sorry about the bad hyperlink. It’s fixed, and there the answer to your question is:
“The survey of 1,000 Adults was conducted on July 16-17, 2014 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. ”
Also, see their methodology page.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/about_us/methodology
This proves that the “moon landings” were an excellent production.
It was a brilliant decision to do it on a Sunday, although I have lost count of the number of people who claimed that they were “at school” when they saw the landing. So much for the idea of events where “everyone remembers exactly where they were at that moment.”
Just ponder as you wander the aisles of your local supermarket that these folks make up about one in four of the folks around you. Depressing.
A lot of people tell pollsters stuff that they don’t actually believe, because they want to identify with “one side.”
When conservatives say Obama isn’t a US citizen, I suspect most of them don’t mean it in a technical way, in that he lacks the legal right to vote or get a passport, etc.
They mean it in a “Obama isn’t a citizen like ME, a white, patriotic, conservative America First guy. I hate him and this is a chance to tell someone how much I hate him.”
I was at work at a fast food shop (tacos, the chain is no longer in business). I brought in my Grandmother’s little portable TV. We turned off the shop lights and all the customers crowded around the TV. It was weird driving home looking up at the full moon that night.
I have added a reader poll to this article.
As James M alluded to above, you misremember. The moon was
at least a week away from being full that night.
http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=1969&n=0
I have yet to see the moon landing’s birth certificate.
Oh, fer-cryin’-out-loud!! I misread the first question as being in the affirmative (is he an American citizen) and voted yes. Sorry for adding to the crazification factor of your poll, Doc!
Hmmm, too dim to take a simple poll. I guess I’m technically a birther now.
Wait, I am confused too. I understood the negative voice of the question and I still don’t know whether I voted Yes or No.
“Is President Obama not an American citizen?”
There is something about the way this question is worded. I did a quick, cursory reading of it and immediately chose the option “YES” before realizing the word “not” in the sentence.
“Is President Obama an American citizen?”
This question is very straightforward and the one I had in mind when I answered “yes”. I guess my confirmation bias got the best of me.
So I wonder how many of the %23 who answered “yes” actually meant President Obama is an American citizen.
Public polling on any political issue cannot be expected to yield truthful responses anymore, because too many people know that the results of the survey may well become a widley publicized tool of political influence.
“Do you believe Obama is worse than Hitler?” Some will say, “YES!”
Some partisan respondents will even dispute established facts if they think their negative response will reflect badly on Obama.
“The Black Death killed over 75 million people in the middle ages. Thanks, Obama!”
In another poll, 38% of the 1000 people interviewed, believed that THEIR single bullet killed President Kennedy. When told those results, 100% of Birthers in a subsequent poll declared that finding overwhelmingly supported a 380 bullet theory.
In a massive effort to confirm these results to a higher degree of reliability, ninety-nine out of a hundred pollsters who later re-administered the same polls to similar populations of respondents and got the same results, said they believed the outcomes would not have changed, even if the respondents polled had understood the questions.
This seems as good a place as any to share this link. Yes, I know it’s from Cracked, but it’s still a good read:
http://www.cracked.com/article_21341_5-ways-every-conspiracy-theory-makes-world-worse.html
There are always people who just like to mess with pollsters. That has to account for some of the answers.
Yeah. The wording is confusing. By which I mean I had to think about it more than I wanted to and it broke my brain.
HAH!!! That was NOT meant as a slam to you, ObiWan!!!
Come on Doc, the first two questions are impossible. Do I believe the government knew people would fly planes into buildings? Well, yes. That possibility was discussed in the 90s. Do I believe that Pres. Bush knew that terrorists wanted to strike in America? He sure did. He got a memo about it.
Am I the only one who thinks the wording of the question of Obama’s citizenship is deceptive? If they were really serious about wanting to get the real answer they should have asked in the positive, not the negative. Answering a “no” question with a “No” answer to get the conclusion that he is a citizen STINKS! Who thought this crap up?
Furthermore, I wonder if more people who think Obama is NOT a citizen read the double negative as an affirmation.
ya suppose that might have been the Doc’s point maybe?
My problem with the poll is that I can’t figger out how to vote twice. What kind of librul proppagander site is this anyway?
My Grandpappy teached me to “Vote Early, Vote Often”
The poll, or at least the parts presented is very (intentionally in my opinion) poorly done.
The first question is(in my opinion intentionally) designed to be mis-read by people who scan or read poorly(like the audience they presented to). You din’t include a negative in a question you want a positive answer from, unless you want people to choose in the opposite (wrong)direction.
The second question is also loaded as it asks two separate questions with the last one being the one most people will answer.
Three and four are throwaway questions, or at least geared towards testing the cray cray factor of the respondents.
All I can say in closing is that if I had presented something like this to my Experimental instructor, he would have failed me on the spot, and probably beaten me about the head and shoulders, unless we were supposed to be building a biased test, and then he would have complained about the sloppiness of it, and still failed me.
I wonder if pollsters try to identify and weed out responses they think are trying to game the system (Ex. the elderly white male strongly conservative Republican who thinks Obama is doing a great job)
Good one!
I think the 23% result is pretty consistent with previous Rasmussen polls about the same issue trumpeted by WND (it may be slightly lower than 2-3 years ago, with especially the “undecided” number being lower).
Adding the double negative (I had to boot up some more parts of my brain for that one, too) and the crazification factor, it seems like a pretty normal result.
As always, poll results need to be understood on an objective scale. Just like the conservative side likes to equate “Obama job approval 40%” with “60% will vote for a Republican candidate”, birthers like to understand polls like this as “millions agree with us”, something easily belied by the abysmal turnout of events like
ODSOAS where even the die-hard crazy didn’t bother turning up.Tag me as yet another who misread the Obama/US citizen poll query with the hidden negative. D’OH!
55% of Americans believe in guardian angels.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1842179,00.html
The argumentum ad populum is a pernicious fallacy.
It would be interesting to run a poll that asked: “Do you agree that 1+1=2 Yes/No,” and find out the percentage that says “No.”
There undoubtedly will be SOME percentage.
But do not leap to the assumption that that percentage BELIEVES that 1+1 does not equal two.
That is the percentage that SAYS that they believe that 1+1 does not equal two. There is a difference.
There is what might be termed a shock factor, people who are eager to record their opinion as strange and unusual just to be shocking.
For example, back during the 1960s the hippies insisted that they could get high by drying out and smoking banana skins. When it was pointed out that there was nothing in banana skins that can make you high, they simply kept repeating it.
So SOME percentage (but how to find out what?) of those who says that they do not believe that Obama is really a citizen, are simply saying it without really believing it. That is comforting, I think.
Doc, this is a classic case of poisoning the well 😛
And another poll states that 100% of David Bowies are afraid of Americans.
Big whoop, a unanimity of Stephen Sondheims like it here in America.
Case in point, this gem from BR:
“Democrats are not “Americans.” They are commies, illegals, degenerates, and all other manner of assorted miscreants and sociological refuse. They don’t self identify as “Americans.”“
I can’t resist sharing with you a satirical comment at Dispatches from the Culture Wars, in response to a posting about the various conspiracy theories offered in connection with the Ukrainian disaster — this pretty much bundles up all the various lunacies in one pretty package:
Obama shot the plane down with a thermite laser built from clues hidden within his REAL birth certificate that he kept hidden in a cabinet marked Gay Muslim Agenda located in his satanic bunker room. The laser was fired during Benghazi from the IRS, both of which were used to cover up the whole thing and the number 7 was used to distract from the real conspiracy.
There are a million versions of the song “In the Jailhouse Now” but the first time I heard it, Tom Ball & Kenny Sultan sang it like this (more or less. I’m working on 30-year memories here):
I remember last election
Everybody, they were in action
Trying to elect our president
My brother by the name of Bill Austin
Walked from New York to Boston
Just to find an honest settlement
Now brother Bill’s a voter
Also a great promoter
Always looking for some good advice
They told Bill, when you go to the polls
Vote straight across the top row
But instead of voting once, he voted twice (they got ‘im)
He’s in the Jailhouse now…
A guy who seems to know about these things posted a Youtube video explaining that the technology was not available in 1969 to fake the moon landing. It was easier to actually do it than fake it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU
“This is your brain after it has been on weed for awhile. This is your brain on banana skins. Any questions?”
Wait…so you’re saying that banana skins DON’T get you high?
Friday, October 07, 2005
Lunch Discussions #145: The Crazification Factor
. . .
Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.
. . .
☞ LINK
AWKWARD QUESTION: A negatively worded question can be confusing about what a yes or no answer signifies.
The survery asks:
Is President Obama not an American citizen?
Well, the “not” in the middle the question can be confusing. If I am a birfer, would my answer be “NO – he’s not” or would it be “YES – he’s not”. As a birfer I want to say he’s not a citizen but my choice of one word answer is a tad confusing.
And if I am anti-birfer, if I have at least two brain cells to rub together, same problem: “Yes – he is a citizen” or “No – he’s NOT not-a-citizen”.
I do’t think the confusion on both sides would be sufficiently equal to cancel each other out.
I can’t ever recall visiting a website as defensive as this one.
You’re making Georges Méliès cry.
Then you haven’t spent much time on the internet, have you?
I see that you are able to post here. However, PPSimmons, BirtherReport, and a host of other Birther Sites practice a rigid and aggressive censorship campaign against anyone who would upset their apple cart. Meanwhile, at BirtherReport they allow the sedition, threats, and homoerotic imagery to flow freely.
And yet, you find THIS site to be the most defensive? You MUST be joking!
Maybe if you could garner just a few comments on any of the ridiculous articles on your own site, then maybe we would be able to judge your blog.
I know, right? I mean, all day long, it’s nothing but defending the truth. It’s so booooring.
I’ve told Doc, “Doc,” I said, “Doc, what we need around here are more Photoshopped pictures of gerbils, bunnies, and Michele Obama!”
But he’s all, “Naaw,” Doc has this Southern drawl, “Naaw, I’m really more interested in defending the truth, ya’ll.”
And I’m like, “Well, how about some claims that Sandy Hook never happened, or that the Boston Bombing was a hoax, or that the Moon landings never happened. That’ll be fun!”
“Think I’ll just be a’ stickin’ to the truth, son,” says Doc, in his friendly drawl.
“Well about perverting religion in order to Obama support my personal fears and prejudices?”
And Doc says, “We’ll leave it to that Bickel feller to do that; I reckon he’s purty darn good at turning the Good Book into a Gospel of Hate.”
Really? What do you mean?
He means that all day long, it’s nothing but defending the truth. This site is sooooo boring!
I’ve told Doc, “Doc,” I said, “Doc, what we need around here are more Photoshopped pictures of gerbils, bunnies, and Michele Obama!”
But he’s all, “Naaw,” Doc has this Southern drawl, “Naaw, I’m really more interested in defending the truth, ya’ll.”
And I’m like, “Well, how about some claims that Sandy Hook never happened, or that the Boston Bombing was a hoax, or that the Moon landings never happened. That’ll be fun!”
“Think I’ll just be a’ stickin’ to the truth, son,” says Doc, in his friendly drawl.
“Some provocative claims about Obama’s mother, or weird allegations about his father?
“Hee, hee,” laughed Doc, as he adjusted his straw hat and leaned back in his chair. “No sir, don’t need none a’ that foolishness ’round heah.”
“Well how about perverting religion in order to justify my obsessive fears and prejudices?”
And Doc says, “Better to leave that to the Bickel fella, I reckon he’s purty darn good at turning the Good Book into a Gospel of Hate.”
Then Doc closed his eyes, whistled the doxology, and slowly drifted off to sleep.
And I can recall very few as offensive as yours.
Defending facts, truth and the actual American Way….Yep, I can live with that
If we say nothing, we’re “silent and quaking with fear.”
If we respond, we’re “defensive.”
Can’t really please you people, can we?
Your “concern” has been noted.
You haven’t visited any birther sites lately have you?
This is really a theme with the birthers. The obots are defensive, or more commonly, the obots are terrified. I guess they are trying to feel like they’re accomplishing something.
Birthers, remember the Empty Chair Defense. The chair may not put up much of a defense — but it is more than enough for the circumstances. I suppose if you try really hard, you can convince yourself that the chair is terrified.
Defensive? How is it defensive to mock and laugh at folks who, for almost 6 years, have proven to be useless but entertaining?
New to the internet, are you?
Didn’t know Donald Trump still had his bogus reward out still. Quit while your not ahead! That birth cert u posted is not even Obama’s, thats why you placed the health dept number elsewhere..date wrong..time wrong..data wrong, ages wrong..ur wrong, u can keep ur hate, but takin readers for dummies…..MAN UP and get over yourself. The senate, house and all of DC plus all employees in Hawaii are wrong? you have issues dude…pick on a plant, shrimp or real enemy of the state…unless that is you, sorry.
But that’s not what the Rasmussen survey said.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/questions/july_2014/questions_conspiracy_theories_july_16_17
“1* I’m going to ask you about a series of conspiracy theories that have been raised over the years and continue to pop up periodically. For each one, please tell me whether you think it is true or false.” (emphasis mine)
This is followed by a set of conspiracy theories written in statement form, starting with:
First, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by more than one shooter.
2* Next, The United States faked the landing on the moon.
3* Okay, Princess Diana was killed by the British Royal Family.
And ending with:
9* Last one, President Obama is not an American citizen.
A true conspiracy theorist would say “True” to all nine statements. An anti-birther should immediately say “False” to statement #9 without having to think about it at all.
Readers here at OCT may be confused by the questions in this article, but I don’t see any confusion with negatively worded questions in the actual survey, as it was written.
I am still intrigued by the wording of the last statement though. Most of the others involve an action of some sort, and the one about Obama is just a statement of being. I think it would have been better to say something like “President Obama’s personal records were altered to make him appear to be a natural-born citizen.” (True or false)
Also, if the questions were not randomly ordered for each respondent, they should have been.
Wait…was most of my last post a defense of Rasmussen? How…defensive of me.
New to the internet, huh? Can you recall what you had for breakfast this morning?
Aw, c’mon, a rep like yours and that’s all you’re going to give us? Meh, 2/10. Try harder.
Where I live it’s more like two in three. On the positive side, they are very proud of our state’s long history.
Of corruption.
(Mkay, guess I just can’t quote him)
Mr. Bickel, with a rep like yours, surely you have something better for us than that? C’mon now 🙂
Thank you for noticing. Defense wins Super Bowls.
It’s just their daily dose of Catch-22. Obots are silent = “they’re hiding, they can’t refute us”. Obots are vocal = “they’re panicking, if we were wrong they could just ignore us”.
I can’t recall a comment that added less to a discussion.
That’s just projection. Realizing that the Obots are just calmly correct, and that all the evidence supports our contention that the president is an eligible NBC, the good Rev. felt defensive. And lo and behold, that’s what he accuses this site of being.
Man, wingnuts are a predictable lot.
Did you have some specific criticism of something you read here, or are you just littering?
Something in his eye?
I see what you did there. Get it?
I’m glad that ol’ Nate finds us de-fensive and not of-fensive, “The best offense is a good defense.
Defense wins championships.
Oooooh.
The coincidences are more convoluted than that thing on Doc’s head in the other thread.
One of these days…
Nice one!