Anti-birther for president

19 Responses to Anti-birther for president

1. Dave B. says:

   August 10, 2016 at 10:33 pm  Dave B.(Quote)

   Well, why not. Georgia’s supposed to be teetering on the razor’s edge.
2. Steve says:

   August 10, 2016 at 11:05 pm  Steve(Quote)

   Is he still libertarian?
3. Dr. Conspiracy says:

   August 10, 2016 at 11:21 pm  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

   Yes.

   Steve:
   Is he still libertarian?
4. scott e says:

   August 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm  scott e(Quote)

   what is it with you guys and shadows.
5. Reality Check says:

   August 11, 2016 at 4:23 pm  Reality Check(Quote)

   Loren could pair up with CRJ and it would be the Stark Raving Sane/Stark Raving Mad ticket. Kind of a yen and yang thing. 😉
6. chancery says:

   August 11, 2016 at 5:07 pm  chancery(Quote)

   I thought that Loren had said that he would grit his teeth and vote for Hillary Clinton if the Georgia race was close, which it appears to be.
7. Mike Colehare says:

   August 11, 2016 at 5:12 pm  Mike Colehare(Quote)

   chancery:
   I thought that Loren had said that he would grit his teeth and vote for Hillary Clinton if the Georgia race was close, which it appears to be.

   Who knows if Loren votes for himself?
8. Loren says:

   August 11, 2016 at 6:05 pm  Loren(Quote)

   scott e:
   what is it with you guys and shadows

   Shadows?
9. Loren says:

   August 11, 2016 at 6:06 pm  Loren(Quote)

   chancery:
   I thought that Loren had said that he would grit his teeth and vote for Hillary Clinton if the Georgia race was close, which it appears to be.

   It’s close *now*. The election’s not for three months. 🙂
10. chancery says:

    August 11, 2016 at 7:07 pm  chancery(Quote)

    Loren: It’s close *now*. The election’s not for three months.

    If the Georgia race remains close, or at least not a certain rout (which seems likely to me, although I’m not Sam Wang), will you urge your supporters to vote for Hillary Clinton instead of writing in your name?
11. Loren says:

    August 11, 2016 at 8:23 pm  Loren(Quote)

    chancery: If the Georgia race remains close, or at least not a certain rout(which seems likely to me, although I’m not Sam Wang), will you urge your supporters to vote for Hillary Clinton instead of writing in your name?

    Let me answer that by referring you to my platform: http://www.voteloren.com/issues/
12. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    August 11, 2016 at 8:39 pm  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    Not a clue.

    Loren: Shadows?
13. chancery says:

    August 11, 2016 at 8:51 pm  chancery(Quote)

    Loren: Let me answer that by referring you to my platform: http://www.voteloren.com/issues/

    Got it. I withdraw the implied criticism.
14. Reality Check says:

    August 11, 2016 at 9:04 pm  Reality Check(Quote)

    Loren

    I like your platform and endorse it. However, I am going to quote from an article Doc linked the other day:

    There are three options in the 2016 election:

    A) Vote for Hillary Clinton
    B) Vote for Donald Trump
    C) Vote for someone else and let others pick the next president.

    Now I know one can make arguments for voting for third party candidates to “send a message” to the major parties or because even though you hate Trump you just cannot vote for Clinton because of this or that reason. First you have to ask yourself how likely the major parties are to “get the message”?

    The last independent or third party candidate to get more than 10% of the vote was Ross Perot in 1992. He got just under 19% of the popular vote and exactly zero electoral votes. There is no consensus on whether Perot helped Clinton win or not. If Perot sent a message it wasn’t received. Perot ran again in 1996 but got only 9% of the popular vote and had no effect on the election. Did anyone “get the message”. I think not.

    In 2000 a third party candidate who was much less popular than Ross Perot did have a big impact. Ralph Nader got 87,488 votes in Florida. By any analysis if Nader had not been on the ballot in Florida Al Gore would have carried the state and been president.

    The moral of the story is that if you want to send a message write a letter. If you want to be sure to have a say in the 2016 election then vote for one of the two candidates who have any chance to win. The only two consequences of voting for a third party candidate are nothing and something you may or may not want to happen but out of your control.

    Loren: Let me answer that by referring you to my platform: http://www.voteloren.com/issues/
15. Loren says:

    August 11, 2016 at 9:43 pm  Loren(Quote)

    Reality Check:
    The moral of the story is that if you want to send a message write a letter. If you want to be sure to have a say in the 2016 election then vote for one of the two candidates who have any chance to win. The only two consequences of voting for a third party candidate are nothing and something you may or may not want to happen but out of your control.

    Here’s the rub: as far as I’m concerned, writing a letter or casting a vote isn’t ENOUGH. I daresay I despise the thought of a Trump Presidency more than just about anyone you know, and I’ve been spreading that gospel for months now. Doc’s a Facebook friend of mine, and can testify to the fact that I post some horrible new thing about Donald on an almost daily basis. I’ve created original graphics in the hopes they might go viral (https://twitter.com/LorenCollins/status/757684335654862848). I attended a rally of Donald’s, and wrote up an essay on the experience that got over 100 shares on Facebook.

    I don’t do that just to preach to the choir; I do that because I know I have a lot of Republican-leaning friends, and I need to reiterate to them that Trump is wholly unacceptable. I refuse to let them be lulled into a sense of complacency with him, and accept voting for him because they don’t want Hillary appointing Supreme Court justices, or whatever their justification might be.

    It was about a month ago that I was talking with my mom, and when she asked who I thought was the lesser evil between Trump and Clinton, she was legitimately shocked when I said Clinton. Despite the fact that she’d seen all the anti-Trump posts I’d made, had read my essay proclaiming what a threat he was, and even expressing her own dislike of him, my mom was STILL prepared to vote for Trump rather than Hillary. Because she hates Hillary that much.

    This is going to be true of a lot of Republicans. Convincing them to not vote for Trump and convincing them to vote FOR Clinton are two completely different tasks, and the latter one is considerably more difficult. Convincing people to not vote at all has been drilled into us as an unpatriotic and undemocratic option. But convincing likely Trump voters (like my mom) to vote for ME at least deprives him of votes.

    Additionally, because I’ve wanted to do more to fight Trump’s candidacy, I’ve been entertaining the idea of a podcast for some weeks. An overt NeverTrump campaign gives me a platform and a justification for doing one, and for people to discover it. A campaign gives me the opportunity to share videos about Trump, or written arguments, or original graphics. It allows me to do so much MORE to prevent a Trump election than just writing a letter or casting a ballot.
16. Reality Check says:

    August 12, 2016 at 10:02 am  Reality Check(Quote)

    Loren

    Thanks for explaining your situation and I applaud you for what you are doing. If the choice for your Mom is between voting for Trump or voting for you then you are doing the right thing in that case. I look at a vote for a minor candidate as 1/2 vote for Trump but that’s better than a full vote for sure. If there were any chance of convincing your Mom to vote for Hillary that would be the most desired outcome if you want to stop Trump. .

    Nothing changes the fact the for a potential voter there are the three outcomes listed in the article. That’s the cold logical way of looking at it. Voters are humans so their decisions are based a combination of logic and emotions.

    Loren: But convincing likely Trump voters (like my mom) to vote for ME at least deprives him of votes.
17. Mike Colehare says:

    August 12, 2016 at 12:23 pm  Mike Colehare(Quote)

    If DT continues his crazies even Loren’s mom might not vote for him. Republican voters who stay home because they have no one to vote for can not vote for positions downticket. Loren may help his party.
18. Craig HS says:

    August 13, 2016 at 5:07 am  Craig HS(Quote)

    Exactly. Give them a reason to still go to the polls, and they can still vote for down-ticket conservatives.

    As much as I want to see the republicans suffer a massive defeat so they never go down this path again, America is stronger when there’s two functioning parties encouraging compromise and cooperation, avoiding extremes.
19. Dr. Conspiracy says:

    August 13, 2016 at 6:45 am  Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)

    Partisanship in the House of Representatives has been increasing exponentially for 60 years.

    Americans today are represented by political figures who struggle to cooperate across party lines at an unprecedented rate, resulting in high profile fiscal and policy battles, government shutdowns, and an inability to resolve problems or enact legislation that guides the nation’s domestic and foreign policy. Partisanship has been attributed to a number of causes, including the stratifying wealth distribution of Americans; boundary redistricting; activist activity at primary elections; changes in Congressional procedural rules; political realignment in the American South; the shift from electing moderate members to electing partisan members movement by existing members towards ideological poles; and an increasing political, pervasive media.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123507

    It is my observation that having two equally powerful parties amplifies the leverage of narrow interests to affect the outcome of elections. That was how something that the vast majority of Americans didn’t want, Prohibition, became a constitutional amendment, and why the issue of gun control is so intractable today.

    The other barrier to compromise and cooperation is big money. An overwhelming majority believe that the minimum wage should be raised, but it doesn’t happen.

    Craig HS: As much as I want to see the republicans suffer a massive defeat so they never go down this path again, America is stronger when there’s two functioning parties encouraging compromise and cooperation, avoiding extremes.

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