We’ve been discussing hospital births vs home births lately, and what difference, if any, there is in the original birth certificate for those two. I want to get into that in more detail in a future article, but I thought now might be a good time to state clearly why I believe Barack Obama was born at what is now called the Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children.
I don’t have the kind of proof that I would like to have making this assertion. I have that nice birth certificate to put the location of President Obama’s birth officially in Honolulu with supporting confirmation of two Hawaiian state health directors, and two 1961 Honolulu newspapers, but the evidence for birth in the hospital is less official. Let’s look at the evidence.
Barack Obama says he was born at Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu, and I’ve never seen anything in the way of evidence to cause me to doubt that. The hospital was only 7.9 miles from his mother’s reported address, and the Honolulu Advertiser newspaper said that Obama was born at Kapi’olani according to “family sources.” From this there is a strong presumption of a hospital birth at Kapi’olani.
Route: Kapi’olani hospital from Obama residence
If you want to add to that, there is the letter from Barack Obama congratulating Kapi’olani Medical Center on its 100th Centennial that was read before the hospital’s gala celebration in front of the hospital officials, local dignitaries and even the Governor of Hawaii. Just look at the video editing of what follows with the close up of the “Born at Kapi’olani” t-shirt following Obama saying (as read from the letter) that Kapi’olani was “the place of my birth.”
You might also add the newspaper article from the Buffalo News, where Barbara Nelson talked about a 1961 conversation between her and Dr. Rodney T. West where he mentions the unusual names of the mother and son (“Stanley had a baby”). Dr. West was delivering babies at Kapi’olani in 1961. I’m not saying that Dr. West delivered Barack Obama (and he’s dead so we can’t ask him) but a doctor at that hospital was at least aware of the birth, which is something unlikely if Obama weren’t born at the hospital.
If you go to Honolulu today and take a guided Obama tour, Kapi’olani Hospital will be where the guide will tell you Obama was born. And knowing nothing else, the statistical probability of Obama being born outside a hospital is less than one percent, because the vast majority of Honolulu births were in hospital.
Of course Nelson, an Obama family friend, could have been lying about her conversation with West, and Kapi’olani could have gone along with a false Obama letter just to help with their fund raising, the tour companies could be misinformed, and improbable events do happen — but there’s no reason to think any of those things.
Update:
Three weeks after the publication of this article, the White House released President Obama’s long-form birth certificate confirming his birth at Kapi’olani.
While I was a student at University oif Hawaii, a black African exchange student told me his white wife just had a baby boy at Kapio’lani Hospital, though I don’t remember his name my wife tells me it was Obama Sr. Who else could it be?
but there’s no reason to think any of those things unless you are a stupid birther who twists plain statements around, sees vast conspiracies in every shadow, and needs repeated confirmation of things already confirmed, spoken in magical words.
FIFY
“If you go to Honolulu today and take a guided Obama tour, Kapi’olani Hospital will be where the guide will tell you Obama was born”.
I checked the tourist web sites for Mombasa and found no such tours offered there.
Maybe Lucas Smith can start one on his next (or first) trip to Mombassa…
I was in Nairobi a few weeks ago. Everyone — cab drivers, bartenders — everyone, thinks it’s really funny that we stupid Americans think Obama was born there.
(Ok, they actually didn’t say they thought we’re stupid. They’re very gentle and polite. They would just shake their heads and smile and say “No.. no…”)
I enjoyed writing this article. One nice thing is that the Kapi’olani video, which I have been unable to find for over a year after it went off the hospital fundraising site, is back and linked into the story. Also the Buffalo News interview had gone offline for a while and I wanted to get a link to the current location published. I also had that cute little map of the route between the Obama residence (all sorts of discussion around that) and the hospital.
I did quite a bit of editing to be precise in what I said, that it be accurate and fair.
I can imagine in a very negative way what Jerome Corsi will come up with. My guess is that it will be warmed-over birther blog, but he might surprise me.
If they knew it was false, or even if a reasonable person would conclude it was false (based on the facts known to them), they’d run a very real risk of a civil fraud complaint. Here are the elements of fraud in Hawaii:
1. False representations were made by defendant;
2. With knowledge of their falsity (or without knowledge of their truth or falsity);
3. In contemplation of plaintiff’s reliance upon these false representations; and
4. Plaintiff’s actual reliance upon the representations.
Hawaii’s Thousand Friends v. Anderson, 70 Hawaii 276, 286, 768 P.2d 1293, 1301 (1989)
If Birthers could find a plaintiff who gave money to the hospital, they could bring such a suit and even get discovery into what the hospital knew, and when they knew it!
I was in HI last year and took one of the tours which goes around Oahu. On the way back the driver went by Kapi’olani and the ice cream shop and told us about “Barry” working there.
According to the Hawaiian Pearl Harbor history website, Dr. Rodney West retired in 1956, five years before Obama’s birth. No mention of Dr. West working at Kapi’olani Medical Center but he did work at Queen’s hospital which was also mentioned as Obama’s birth hospital by his step sister and other newspaper reports.
http://www.pearlharborstories.org/survivorpage.php?name=Rodney+West,%20M.D.&id=767
Or maybe he just came out of retirement just to deliver the anointed one? Not!
Try again!
He was born in 1910, so he retired at 46 years of age? Blahahahahahah
“After his return to the Islands, Dr. West spent doctors who had not had a vacation for the duration of the war, and served on the Big Island as plantation doctor at Ola`a Sugar Plantation (Kea`au). In June of 1949 he was asked to join the Obstetrics and Gynecology Department of The Clinic (now Straub Clinic & Hospital), and returned to Honolulu practice. Over the years, he delivered more than 5000 babies, usually at Kapi`olani Maternity Hospital, personally chronicling their vital statistics in bound ledgers. Nearing the end of his practice, Dr. West took on the role of medical director, Straub Clinic’s first, before retiring at 65 years of age in December of 1975.”
http://honoluluprepares.com/author.html
That’s a debunked birther lie. Search this site, or risk looking like the foolish liar that you are.
Wrong again
“Throughout his lifetime, Dr. West served the medical community in many other ways: as Kapi`olani Hospital’s Chief of Staff for a number of years, as president of the Hawaii Medical Association in 1963, as liaison for the annual Pan Pacific Surgical conferences in Honolulu and finally in the founding of The American College of Physician Executives, becoming its first president.”
http://honoluluprepares.com/author.html
But thanks for stopping by. Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.
Queen’s Hospital was never mentioned by Barack Obama’s step-sister.
Barack Obama doesn’t have any step-siblings.
If you’re talking about Maya Soetoro-Ng, that is Barack Obama’s half-sister (same mother, different fathers), who was born about 9 years after Obama was born (August 15, 1970). She’d really have personal knowledge of the birthplace, wouldn’t she.
And she didn’t actually say anything of the sort. A student reporter from a high school newspaper interviewed Maya Soetoro-Ng, and wrote up the interview. As part of an introduction to the piece, she did some research on Wikipedia, which at that time wrongly had the birthplace as Queen’s hospital. That is likely where Obama’s birthplace in that article came out of. And guess what, the author of that Wikipedia article just guessed where Obama was born. The Wikipedia article has since been corrected.
So, another myth bites the dust…
This is really just SAD! Not a single correct fact in there. Lies that were debunked by THIS website more than two years ago (Dr. West worked at Straub Clinic, part of Kapiolani).
Thanks for finding the Buffalo News article on Mrs. Nelson again. Have you compared it with the one that appeared in 2009 to see what has been added?
How fortuitous that I was just reading an article this very evening by Loren that busts this myth about Queens Hospital:
http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2010/02/birther-mythbusting-maya-soetoro-and.html
From the article:
“And who, you may ask, was Wikipedia’s ultimate source for “Queen’s Medical Center,” since no source citation was given in the Wiki entry? It was simply a Hawaiian college kid who liked editing Wikipedia, and took a guess as to which hospital Obama was born in. He explained his reasoning to me, saying it “was based on presumption without original source. Conjecture based on Queen’s being the largest hospital in Hawaii, near the University of Hawaii at Manoa where the Obamas went to school, presumed that they were still in school and probably lived near campus. Queen’s is in a central location and a place of power, a block away from the Hawaii State Capitol, Iolani Palace and the governor’s residence at Washington Place. As it turns out, the Obamas lived in an apartment just across the street from the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children, a location even closer to the university campus.” And he concluded, “Put in simple terms: I was the source and the source was wrong.”
So there you have it. Maya Soetoro never told the Rainbow Edition or any other publication that her brother was born at Queen’s Medical Center.”
Birther myths never die. They are like zombies that arise from the grave.
From the Honolulu Advertiser, Thursday, Aug. 28, 2008:
“I, Barack Obama, was born at 2 different hospitals: ”
what a lack of accuracy! Obama’s sister never said Qeens Medical Center. By the way, the student reporter was told Queens Hospital, but was mistaken as to which “Queens”, there are 2 Queens Hospitals and they often are confused*****
1 Queen Kapio’lani Hospital – primarily Maternity founded by Queen Kapio’lani
2 Queens Medical Center – general Hospital founded by Queen Emma
.
my question to you is are you lying or were you lied to? Answer please!
.
*****my daughter was born at Queen Kapio’lani, my sister in law went to Queens Medical Center to visit, common mistake.
An interesting interlocking between the Buffalo News teacher and the Honolulu Advertiser stories. Buffalo News:
And, from the Honolulu Advertiser:
Paging Donald Trump. More people that remember Obama as a child!
There seem to be some slight difference of opinion as to what age he retired. However – I doubt that a successful obstetrician would retire that young.
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20081003043054/http://hml.org/mmhc/mdindex/westr.html
This is the same file that Dr C has, but if anyone thinks that maybe he faked it, here it is directly from the Internet Archive (says he retired in 1977):
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20081003043054/http://hml.org/mmhc/mdindex/westr.html
“Dr. West practiced at The Straub Clinic and Hospital until his retirement in December 1977.”
I meant that I doubt anyone that successful would retire from active practice at 46.
There is no doubt that he was the “president of the Hawaii Medical Association in 1963”.
Also, the website link is for the book he wrote “Honolulu Prepares for Japan’s Attack”. If you want to order a copy, the website requests you send a check to Jo-Anne West Lewis, Dr. West’s daughter.
No. Dr West didn’t sit around with his thumb up his ass like you. He had babies to deliver.
“Over the years, he delivered more than 5000 babies, usually at Kapi`olani Maternity Hospital, personallly chronicling their vital statistics in bound ledgers.”
I wonder if the bound ledgers were his personal property or the hospitals? And if they still exist?
I wonder if they were ‘written down’?
”
This mentally challenged birther is citing a high school newspaper and student reporter who plagiarized an error filled Wikipedia article?
WHAT AN IDIOT!
“Maya Soetoro never told the Rainbow Edition or any other publication that her brother was born at Queen’s Medical Center.”
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/03/donald-trump-digs-himself-in-deeper/#comment-100771
> Maya Soetoro never told the Rainbow Edition or any other publication that her brother was born at Queen’s Medical Center
And even if she did, how would that justify the birther lie “Obama claimed two different hospitals”? Obama never claimed Queen’s Medical.
But you know what, birthers, what the heck? Just find a grammar school article claiming Obama was born in Barackistan and his middle name was “Hustler”. That’s all you need to underminde Obama’s credibility, isn’t it?
And we actually know one person West delivered at Kapi’olani in 1961, Catherine West Dale.
I never thought of it that way. Misrepresenting a charity to receive money is a very serious crime.
Doesn’t this create a problem for the fund-raising team no matter what is the validity of his birth there? Point 2 implies that they would have to have had specific knowledge of President Obama’s birth at that hospital. If no one can see the original birth info how is it possible to pass this test?
What is really amazing is that when people like “I, Barack Obama, was born at 2 different hospitals: ” are shown their post is totally wrong, their brains retreat, they don’t learn from new facts. They retreat or go away only to show up elsewhere with the same pupu. You have to mentally disturbed to act like a birther.
Excellent article, and excellent posts. I found a lot of good information at Doc’s earlier article:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/more-testimony-obama-was-born-in-k/
They have never cared about facts or the truth. That’s what makes them despicable liars, hypocrites and trolls.
You all are a bunch of crazy mofo’s
It’s understandable that you are upset. It must be devastating to realize you been wrong for all these years.
They’ve interpreted it to mean more than mere lack of knowledge of truth or falseness, but a reckless disregard for whether the statement was true or false.
WND discussed the issue of charity fraud back in 2009,
“Late yesterday, though, Peters finally responded to WND’s inquiry when the news site informed the hospital that the FBI and United States Secret Service said the matter could potentially lead to criminal prosecution were the letter determined to be fraudulent.
“It would be a charity fraud scheme,” said FBI spokesman Steve Kodak. “It would be investigated by us or the Secret Service. We both have jurisdiction over that.”
Peters says Kapi’olani actually has a reproduction of the “original letter” on display at the hospital.
“The original is something that we treasure, and we know that it came from Mr. Obama,” she said, explaining only that the paper document was personally presented to them by U.S. Rep. Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, who read its contents – straying at times from the actual text – at the hospital’s Centennial Dinner Jan. 24, the same day the letter in question is dated.”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104146
I had forgotten about that. Remember the birthers explained he came out retirement to deliver his daughters child.
That makes more sense. It wasn’t clear from the initial posting.
I don’t have a copy of the original. Nothing jumps out as different from what I remember. The article still says that West delivered Obama but that’s not what Nelson says in the quoted part, nor what she said in a followup interview with WorldNetDaily.
this whole article with all it’s BS claims has been decimated
I believe
I believe
I believe
just show the long form certificate and get on with it
btw
it doesn’t exist……everyone knows that now
Have you tried chemotherapy?
what exactly would be on the long form that could affect presidential eligibility ?
Good idea. I’m sure that’ll get your vote in the Obama column.
fail troll is fail
“What is really amazing is that when people like…”
.
include “thefarleftView” on this, really amazing how reality challenged they are. A neighbor took in their HS daughter, the HS girl could no longer deal with her birther father, is that you “thefarleftView”? How many birther’s in that same position?
I think I have been casting pearls before swine.
Nah – birther just don’t know how to qualify their statements (having never attempted to do so). They just think that if they say something it becomes unquestionable fact…
I wasn’t even going to say it will
Doc…is your Occam’s Razor cordless?
Just show the WMDs, and get on with it.
Now that was completely uncalled for, Doc.Such a comparison is rather beneath you, and polite society in general.
To compare birthers to swine is insulting and demeaning, and I will not stand for it!
The swine is a noble beast.
The average hog is smarter than the average birther.
http://www.rps.psu.edu/probing/pigs.html
It’s understandable to me that with 60 million people in this country who did not vote for Barack Hussein Obama II to be the 44th President of the United States that there are going to be some of those millions who really, really, intensely dislike the President. That goes with living in a democratic-republic.
However those folks, who include the “birthers,” should remember that another 70 million Americans voted FOR Barack Hussein Obama II and there is no process under the Constitution for invalidating the electoral will of 70 million voters. The 12th Amendment to the Constitution is very clear: whoever achieves a majority of the Electoral College votes which are counted and certified at a Joint Session of Congress without objection (and I quote the Amendment) “shall be President.”
Vice President Dick Cheney counted and certified Obama’s 365 Electoral college votes and not one single member of Congress out of 535 objected. Then Chief Justice John Roberts administered the Oath of Office on Inauguration Day and Obama became President.
If Barack Hussein Obama II has committed “high crimes and misdemeanors” then he can be impeached and if 20 Democratic Senators can be convinced to go along with every Republican in the Senate to make the required 67 votes to convict and remove a president from office, then so be it. Good luck getting 20 Democratic Senators and the Republican RINOs and moderates to go along with that!
Ronald Reagan never existed because they won’t open his tomb to show me his body.
Doc, I have 2 pig valves in my heart (aortic and mitral), a pig saved my life, so please do not insult pigs again!
Nothing. What the birthers want is more material to spin. Does anyone honestly think birthers will look at the original and say “Okay, it checks out.” They’ll look for imaginary problems, and if they can’t find that, they’ll either call it a fake or fabricate laws that would make Obama’s Presidency invalid.
That’s exactly what will happen, and why Obama’s campaign is not going to release anything else. Releasing the original will just pour gasoline on the fire.
Nothing will shut up that crowd. Besides, they’ll just trot out the ‘two-parent’ claim.
Obama’s not concerned about what’s on the original, he’d concerned about what birthers will imagine is on the original.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJex9Ge2-Q
If Obama was born at the Kapiolani there would be a long form birth certificate in the archive.
That is not true – according to Chris Matthews and his guests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGnWUjR0icg
Why did they assume that Obama would not qualify for Arizona ballot if the law was adopted requiring the disclosure of the original birth certificate for proving eligibility?
Because you send $20 to Hawaii and they send you the COLB?
Because they haven’t read the super-secret Hawaiian law you’ve read that allows the President to circumvent Hawaiian law to get the original long form?
There is no law preventing the release of the original birthcertificate. If you were born in Hawaii, you can obtain the original long form birth certificate upon request.
Can you prove that statement? If that is so, why could Terry Lakin not get one for his daughter?
And, even if we pretend what you say is true, what about the other 49 states? Do you know for a fact that all of them will release a long form? Under the Law of Unintended Consequences you could easily end up with President Obama on the ballot and several Republican challengers unable to qualify. I know you think that won’t happen, but I think it’s quite possible.
The birth certificate doesn’t matter to NC1 she has already said she doesn’t think he’s eligible because of his father’s status. This is just more BS she keeps throwing up
Projectile throwing up.
Exorcist…. bring me a young priest and an old priest… the power of christ compels you.
I think the worst thing is the birther on the amazon board who when confronted tries to throw his religion into it. Claims he’s never lied and stands behind all his posts and then when you point to threads with obvious lies in them he avoids the threads. He pretty much tried to claim I was burning in hell without me ever discussings my religion.
“There is no law preventing the release of the original birthcertificate. If you were born in Hawaii, you can obtain the original long form birth certificate upon request.”
.
I made that request for my daughter’s BC, their answer confirms you are a liar, but you knew that.
There is no law preventing the state from issuing the President a certified copy of his birth certificate. That is true. However, that is dispositive of nothing. I’m sure there is no law preventing its citizens from walking on water either. That doesn’t mean that a person not named Jesus can simply walk across any body of water in the state. Absence of a law on a matter does is not the same as it meaning that the action is possible. The state issues birth records in only one form. That form currently is the COLB. That is the ONLY way you can get official confirmation of one’s vital records in the State of Hawaii today.
And you base this statement on? Oh yeah. Your wishful thinking, and an unsupported reading of Hawaii statutes, that no one of consequence agrees with. And who disagrees with you? Oh yeah. The State of Hawaii, who says they only issue the COLB. Who should a believe? The quack on the internet, or the State Government that actually issues the documents?
Birthers are an exorcise in futility. Pun intended.
If long form birth certificates are available from the state of Hawaii, how come we haven’t seen hundreds or thousands of them posted on the web, just to embarrass Obama into obtaining his?
NC1’s statement above is in direct contradiction to the statements of the Hawai’i Department of Health’s Director of Communications, Janice Okubo:
Question: What is the state’s policy for issuing a “Certification of Live Birth” versus a “Certificate of Live Birth”? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier’s name and title; attendant’s name and title, etc. The certification has only the child’s name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother’s maiden name, mother’s race, father’s name and father’s race. Why doesn’t the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?
Answer: No, you can’t obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.
The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.
And, it’s only available in electronic form.
Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.
“At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting,” she said.
Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.
“The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests,” Okubo said.
Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department “does not have a short-form or long-form certificate.”
“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.
Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”
http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090606_kokua_line
Technically, nc1 is probably correct that there is no “law” preventing release of a copy of the fuller style of birth certificate issued at the time of a citizen’s birth in the 60’s (whether you call it a long form or something else).What they have appears to be more of an administrative policy than a “law”.
I recall that even Dr C subscribes to a limited degree of belief that in certain special circumstances incorporating a very good reason why they need more info than is on a modern style COLB, a citizen could convince Hawaii to give them at the very least a non-certified copy of that 1960’s issue document.
Unfortunately nc1 then immediately went and spoiled that fleetingly brief moment of relative rationality about the existence of no “law” as such, by tacking on the false exaggeration that anyone born in Hawaii can get a copy of such a document on request which gives the impression it as a routine facility available to all anytime.This is plainly not the case.
There’s over a million people in Hawaii. You’d think that after almost 3 years one of them would be a birther who could request his or her own long form, plus a receipt proving it was a recent transaction (unlike say the Nordykes who I presume just had theirs for years since back when you could still get those).
Once again I ask (NC1). If long forms are readily available, why aren’t they being posted on the internet and shown in the mass media by people born in Hawaii who oppose Obama? Thus far in the more than four years since Obama announced his candidacy, we’ve seen one (“Danae’s”) that is uncertified.
A post from today on FreeRepublic.com!!! 😉
“Give me a bit. I’m figuring out how to navigate.
Actually I have been a troll. At a place called “ObamaConspiracy.” I gave them a pretty good fight for about a week, but after that I got tired of pushing back against about 12 different people, all of them incredibly knowledgeable (and pretty Darned smart) about very old reference documents, etc.
I swear that most of them were paid lawyers working for Obama’s “interference squad.” I can’t believe any amateurs would have put forth the arguments that they did.
106 posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:13:57 AM by DiogenesLamp ”
Thanks to a contributor who pointed out that I had the wrong Obama address (misread a 9 as a 0 and ended up in Danbury, Connecticut). Actually I misread a 6 for a 4 and ended up down the street. In any case it’s 7.9 miles between Kapi’olani and the birth announcement address.
Anyone want to take a guess which troll this was?
And some of them aren’t even American… 🙂
Not that I count myself among the 12 (s)he is talking about, but you can dream…
My money’s on MichaelN.
I don’t have a clue what troll here would speak so graciously of us. Of course, he is partly right: some of the commenters here are lawyers. Some have gained expertise “on the job.” I can speak only for myself in saying that I’m not paid for what I do on this blog and, of course, I am not a lawyer.
It’s the graciousness that makes me think that it is MichaelN – he frequently complained about my (and others) incivility. I can’t think of anyone else who brought the issue up. Also, the discussion of Calvin’s case certainly touched on ‘very old reference documents’…
You and several others deserve hazard pay and a bonus then.
Forwarding to Soros Central.
This is more anecdotal evidence that cowardly birther buffoons prefer to troll where people will believe their incessant lies and not challenge them.
If that is true, I find that troubling in view of proposed birther laws. Even assuming a state would accept an uncertified copy to put one on the ballot (doubtful) these “long forms’ are not issued under normal procedures, but as a “special favor”. The state where you were born can issue one if they feel like, but they are not obligated to. That now allows the governor of that state to stop anyone born there from running for President if he doesn’t want them to run. Now perhaps, no governoor would actually doo that, but why give them that arbitrary and unjustiified power.
This goes way beyond Obama and could keep many qualified candidates of all stripes off the ballot. It may be particularly burdensome to independent candidates who don’t have the political pull or stature to request a special issue birth certificate. In fact, as I understand the Oklahoma law, major party nominees cannot be kept off the ballot for any reason, so the law would only impact minor party/independent candidates. Stupid only begins to describe that.
My understanding is that it’s a similar law with the federal government or most states, where one is entitled to copies of documents of their own records. It doesn’t necessarily mean a certified copy that could be used as an official birth certificate.
Here’s the law on certified copies:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
Ҥ338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]”
My interpretation of part (c) is that “approved by the director of health” is the key. Remember that this section is only about “certified copies”. Apparently anything else is outside the scope of this statute. Right now the director of health has only approved the “computer printout” version for certified copies. At one point it’s been obvious that “dry copy reproduction” was one approved method of generating a certified copy of a BC. I’ve even seen images of what looked like a certified BC generated via a typed transcription, circa 1973. There’s a good chance Obama had one of those issued in his name at one time.
Also – the “computer printout” version sounds as if it facilitates the “any part thereof”. I guess they have a standard set of data (as much as they’ll put) on the COLB and perhaps the option to leave out stuff that you don’t want on it.
As far as I can tell, what Obama has obtained looks to be the standard information when no special request is made. The information generally looks like what I’ve seen on other contemporary Hawaii COLBs.
Why do you take Chris Matthews’ word over the Official Hawaiian records keeper’s word?
That would have been true up until 2001 when HI converted to electronic storage. Who knows what they did with the original documents.
The statement “There is a long form birth certificate in the archives for everyone born at Kapi’olani Hospital” is a very dangerous statement to make from the scientific point of view. It is impossible to prove and very easy to falsify, since one counter-example will suffice.
Hawaii did say that they don’t destroy any records and I don’t have any doubt at all that they still have on file all the information that was contained in the narrative of the 1961 issue bc….but I have to say that I’ve always subscribed to the view that it’s quite possible there is no actual yellowing old paper document still there.
The former health director issued a statement that she’s seen the original record on file for President Obama. That’s good enough for me, whether it was the actual piece of paper or some sort of reproduction (microfiche, photographic) that they’re convinced was always in the health dept’s chain of custody.
The health dept also said that they have kept all original records. It’s just the tricky little deal with Hawaii’s privacy laws. I almost wish that Hawaii would allow for “certified informational copies” like California or New Jersey allow. They can’t be used like a real birth certificate, but they’re certified by a government agency as containing the exact information that would be on a regular birth certificate. They should have gone ahead with that same bill charging $100 a pop for Obama’s birth certificate, only modifying it with the disclaimer that it’s only an informational copy.
What difference woud it make?
Birthers claim the Obama letter to Kapio’lani has been removed as it was fake.
How silly of them ,The letter story, being older, has been archived in their 100
year anniversary magazine and is still available.
.
quote from first page:
“In fact, our 44th President Barack Obama
commended “the excellence of Kapiolani Medical Center—
the place of my birth.” He added, “Hawaii has always been a
Home to me” (see page 6)
.
Page 6 has a copy of the Obama letter.
http://www.kapiolanigift.org/doc/centennial-magazine.pdf
A few points:
1. Obama did have a stepsister — Holiya “Lia” Soetoro Sobah. She died Feb. 26, 2011.
2. Obama was supposedly in Indonesia from ages 6 to 10. There’s a 1969 photo of Barry and Scott Inoue, a classmate. Assuming Obama wasn’t 2 grades behind, the Indonesian story is inaccurate.
3. A birth certificate could have been obtained on behalf of Obama even if he had been born “without the state or territory” as per a Hawaiian law. (Hawaii Revised Statutes S. 338-17.8). The long form birth certificate for 1961 is readily available on the net. Just google the Nordyke twins. Only the long form would indicate if Obama had been born elsewhere.
4. “African” was not a race designation in 1961.
Disclaimer: I was brought here by that post on FR wanting to see these issues addressed/debunked. Haven’t found any other responses on the net to these questions. Thanks.
Stick around for awhile and you’ll get your answers. You might even win the prize for the 1000th time that these have been answered.
You beat me to it. 1,000? That few?
In any case, welcome – if you’ve brought an open mind, I’m sure you’ll get the answers you’re looking for here…
I’ve never seen the step-sister thing before – have you?
There is no evidence that she was Obama’s stepsister. There have been claims that she was adopted by Lolo Soetoro and Obama’s mother, but no proof of that has been produced. It is irrelevant in any case, because she had no first-hand knowledge of where Obama was born. And she supposedly died in 2010, not this year.
Obama was supposedly in Indonesia from ages 6 to 10.There’s a 1969 photo of Barry and Scott Inoue, a classmate. Assuming Obama wasn’t 2 grades behind, the Indonesian story is inaccurate.
You need to brush up on your facts. During his four years in Indonesia, Obama returned to Hawaii once for an extended visit with his grandparents. During that visit he attended school in Honolulu.
A birth certificate could have been obtained on behalf of Obama even if he had been born “without the state or territory” as per a Hawaiian law.(Hawaii Revised Statutes S. 338-17.8). The long form birth certificate for 1961 is readily available on the net.Just google the Nordyke twins.Only the long form would indicate if Obama had been born elsewhere.
Wrong. The statute you cite didn’t exist in 1961. It was enacted in 1982. And, as Hawaii’s Department of Health has affirmed, you cannot obtain a COLB which says that you were born in Hawaii unless you actually were born in Hawaii. If you were born elsewhere, the COLB would state that.
“African” was not a race designation in 1961.
Hawaii allowed parents to use whatever designation they chose. Obama’s father considered himself an African, not a Negro, so he chose to identify himself as African.
The problem I have with the letter read by Gov. Abercrombie, who at the time was a congressman from Hawaii, is that the White House refuses to confirm it wrote it.
There is not much to the letter. It just congratulates Kapiolani Hospital on its centennial and confirms Obama was born there. Why would the White House refuse to confirm it wrote it? In essence it is refusing to confirm that Obama was born there. What’s the big secret about where Obama was born that he can’t even confirm this?
Bob
What do you think it says that you couldn’t find answers to these questions on the net, but they were all answered in a little over half an hour here? Does this help convince you that the President is a natural born citizen? If not, what would convince you? Will you vote for President Obama if convinced that he was born in Hawai’i? (if so, Scientist is looking for someone like you…)
“White House refuses to confirm it wrote it…”
where did you get this, from WND or your rear end?
What evidence do you have that the White House refuses to confirm the letter? And what does that mean? Was a request for confirmation from a respected journalist refused? Or was a question from an organization like World Net Daily ignored or ridiculed? I’m guessing that you’re referring to something along the lines of the latter… If you want a serious answer to your question, then you need to give some evidence for (and details of) of this ‘refusal to confirm the letter’.
You may be right there. However, it Holiyah has never said that Obama was born anywhere, not that she’d have any more knowledge. The one that is the Birther myth is still Maya Soetoro-Ng. And that has been debunked time and time again.
Barack Obama from time to time actually visited his grandparents living in Hawaii. 1969 was one of those times.
1. 338-17.8 was passed in 1982 (look at the history of it down on that, down at the bottom of the statute, it’ll tell you when it was passed). There has been no evidence that a simular law was in effect before that. So, Obama’s mother couldn’t have registered him under this law.
2. The Hawaii Department of Health has directly said that you cannot get a COLB that says that you were born in Honolulu, Hawaii, if you were born in London, England. You can get a COLB that says that you were born in London, but not one that says that you were born in Honolulu. Barack Obama’s COLB directly says that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. Read: “City of Birth: Honolulu, Island of Birth: Oahu, County of Birth: Honolulu”. That means he was born in Honolulu, period. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence that the long-form would say anything different than the short-form on place of birth. Furthermore, you’d have to be stupid to think that a short-form would give a place of birth that is erronious.
3. The Nordyke’s certificates were issued in 1966. They may be redily available, but they would not be issued today to the Nordykes. They’d get the same COLB as everybody else.
The Hawaii Department of Health has said that they allowed self-identification there. Other identifications that have been proven was: “Caucasian/Hawaiian” and “Japanese/Hawaiian”. Neither of which fall into the standard categories that the birthers propose are manditory for them to fall under.
Welcome, and feel free to look around. You’ll find debunking of every single theory around the archives of this blog. It’s a real interesting read.
Ricky, a step-sister just means that the parents of these two children marry, but they have no blood. No adoption is needed for a step-sister relationship. (I believe that after a divorce, there isn’t really a step relationship either, though. I could be wrong.)
If Holiyah Soetoro is the daughter of Lolo Soetoro, then she would be the step-sister of Barack Obama (at least until the divorce between Lolo and Stanley Ann Dunham).
More testimony: Obama was born in K…
by Dr. Conspiracy on January 26, 2009 in Birth Location
“Initial objections offered were that Dr. West had retired from delivering babies before 1961. This is questionable based on followup investigation (see below). The Buffalo News article stated that West had delivered Obama, but this was not what Nelson told the interviewer.”
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/more-testimony-obama-was-born-in-k/
Where did Dr. Conspiracy get the information that Nelson did not actually say that West delivered Obama?
Bob
Bob, it’s based upon speculation that Dr. West delivered Obama. There is no statement that says it.
All it says was that Dr. West told her that “Stanley gave birth today.” when she asked what was interesting.
I don’t believe that anyone has claimed that she is the daughter of Lolo. Last year WND was spinning the story that she was adopted by Lolo and Stanley Ann, the point being that if Lolo adopted a girl, he might well have adopted Obama. The birther blogs which pushed the story all referred to her as Obama’s adopted step-sister.
As far as I can tell, the entire story about her being related to Obama in any way is bogus.
Here’s link to an image of a REAL CertifiCATE of Live Birth on Miki Booth’s page .
This CertifiCATE was ssued 15th MARCH 2011
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=1646821495774&set=a.1086340484099.2013840.1394022018&theater
So who said CertifiCATES of Live Birth can’t be gotten in this format?
This is odd. When the Post and Email posted the same birth certificate on 17 March, it was missing the registrar’s stamp and date. Why would it have been left off of the first scan (Miki or somebody redacted more information later)?
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/03/17/final-hawaii-petition-letter-sent/
ARE YOU ACCUSING BIRTHERS OF FORGING DETAILS ON BIRTH CERTIFICATES??? How dare you sirrah! Just because they have presented forged documents to the court and altered details on birth certs at least 10 times now does NOT make them untrustworthy!
Also the fat that the only other long form they have gotten after 4 years of trying was Danaes non certified copy should NOT make you suspicious at all! How dare you have such a low opinion of your fellow man.
As a college student, I had many black classmates from Africa. North Africans usually referred to themselves as “Arabs,” and black Africans usually referred to themselves as “African.”
It was quite common; I heard it with regularity. You can call this hearsay, as is your privilege.
Oh MichealN, did you havey comment when Denald trump released his CertifiCATION of Birth issued by New York state?
I’m curious why the only certificate they could come up with after 2 and a half years is for a minor. Why no certificate from an adult?
According to you birthers this isn’t valid as there’s no raised seal
The State of Hawaii said it.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/06/obama-birth-certificate-official/
So, some random guy on Facebook, or the spokeswoman for the agency in question…whom to believe?
Obviously, if you’re MichaelN, you believe the random guy on the internet.
Hey, Michael, I’ve found the ultimate birther prize! It will blow Obama’s story out of the water! Plus, it’s by some random internet guy!
How is the weather in Ireland?
I imagine it’s nice and soft this time of the year Nancy so fecking what.
To return to MichaelN’s piece of garbage
H’mm curious….
Apart from various other “interesting” elements I’m not seeing
A document control/version number
A statement that “This copy serves as prima facie evidence etc” along with the relevant statute
Security paper
“Any alterations invalidate this certificate” statement
Visible seal (although there may be one)
So again we return to the simple fact….it’s not a bloody birth certificate.
About the same as in Australia, where MichealN is.
Did you have some point there?
If the image is authentic (except for redaction) and there is a seal on it, then it is a valid birth certificate. It meets federal requirements for a passport. It may not be immediately visible, but the security paper (not a requirement) is visible in a darkened version of the certificate. No Hawaiian birth certificate I have seen has a document control number on it.
The key elements that make it a legal certified copy of a birth certificate is that it 1) states facts of birth including date, place, name, parent(s) names, date filed, 2) is issued by a jurisdiction, 3) has a raised or colored seal and 4) is signed by someone authorized by the jurisdiction to certify the copy.
Doc,
Every one you’ve shown has (usually on the bottom margin) a document verison/control, number, for example, the Obama COLB has
OHSM 1.1 (Rev 11/01) Laser
Bottom right hand corner
It’s been two years and the White House or Obama still has not publicly come out and stated that Obama was born at Kapiolani hospital. It’s widely reported all over the internet that it’s the hospital where he was born, yet the White House will not publicly make a statement on it one way or the other.
I found this article by a reporter who certainly is not a birther who says this:
Obama run in 2012 may cause boom in birth certificate requests.
Posted on January 3, 2011
BY GREG WILES
http://watchdog.org/7752/obama-run-in-2012-may-cause-boom-in-birth-certificate-requests/
Gov. Abercrombie is left blowing in the wind looking foolish when all the White House would have to do is admit it wrote the letter and that, yes Obama was indeed born at Kapiolani hospital.
Since the White House will not admit to writing the letter, we are left to speculate how this all came about. One possibility is that in fact the White House did not write it. Then since the letter was presented by Abercrombie he may in fact have written it.
Now this would a very bad state of affairs. You would have a sitting governor of a state who at the time was U.S. Congressman concocting a letter on White House stationary and forging Obama’s signature on it. This would be astonishing if true. But this is how the White House is making it look, since it will not confirm it wrote the letter.
What’s even more bizarre is that Abercrombie went through all this to help Obama and now the White House won’t help him out to just say “Oh yeah, we wrote that letter. We just wanted to congratulate Kapiolani hospital and yes Obama was born there.” What would be the harm there even if they didn’t write the letter – IF it were the case that he was born there?
The other possibility is that the White House and perhaps Obama himself did indeed write the letter. Then it is even more bizarre that the White House won’t now admit to it.
It just makes no sense either way. What’s the great harm in admitting you were born in a certain hospital if you were indeed born there?
Bob
He publicly came out with that information 20 years ago, in “Dreams from my Father”. I don’t think he needs to repeat himself. Great book apparently. Ever read it?
More importantly, why are you obsessed over it? Why do you need to know?
If it was proven Obama was born on a beach in Hawaii instead would you change your mind and vote for him? No? He would still be a natural born citizen and eligible for the office of President of the U.S.
Are you implying that being born in a hospital is a Constitutional requirement?
Really? When did that kick in? Even if you set aside your doubt about Obama’s birthplace, only Carter, Clinton and G.W. Bush were born in hospitals. Were all of the rest ineligible or only the one you are personally motivated to discredit and destroy?
Birthers have already proven they will stalk and harass anyone or any place associated with President Obama. Hawaii had to pass a law against vexatious requestors who were hounding the DOH with threats and bizarre demands. Many of the requests originated from the same small group of hardcore birthers week after week after week. Are you one of them? (http://statehousenewsonline.com/2011/01/03/obama-run-in-2012-may-cause-boom-in-birth-certificate-requests/)
So by birther reasoning, only your fanatical hatred and uncontrollable urge to find some kind of dirt, anything at all, on the current President matters. Forget the law because some anonymous, squawking birther has his reasons.
Pathetic.
There are whole bunch of other things the Whiite House has failed to confirm:
1. The sun rises in tthe East
2. 5 is a prime number.
3. Bo the dog likes liver snacks.
I could go.on. You may think this is a burning issue at press conferences, but it isn’t. The question was asked once by a third-rate reporter (Les Kinsolving) for a fifth-rate rag (World Nut Daily). The Press Secretary at the time, Robert Gibbs, treated it as a joke, as was appropriate. Now, to be faiir, Robert Gibbs, doesn’t KNOW whether the President was born at Kapi’olani, since he wasn’t there. So he’d have to go back afterwards and ask and give an official response later. Now, if this was something like “How much money is the President requesting for NASA?”, or “What radiation levels from the nuclear plant in Japan are detectable in Ohio?”, then he should absolutely find out and provide that. But’ “Did the President sign a commemorative letter to a hospital?” or “Did the President sign a letter congratulating Dorothy Smith of Kansas City, MO on turning 100?”, are not questions that really need a follow-up.
Goldwater was NOT born in the US of A – he was born in Arizona when it was still a territory.
Know why Romney is not getting on the bandwagon? George Romney, CEO of American Motors (snicker), was born in MEXICO to a polygamist father. George’s father had at least TWO “wives.” So, while one mother was making dinner, a second mother was helping him with his homework. Very wholesome.
Truly, it was the Cleaver family in real life.
Romney says one word, and he’s going to get it back, with both barrels.
I don’t know why anyone would put up with being the second wife. The first has a legal marriage, the second, and third, and…have a church wedding. Legally, they are mistresses. No inheritance, no Social Security, no right of health insurance, zero.
I once worked for a Mormon, who lived near me in Montgomery County, MD – one of the wealthiest in the country. He had two wives. Hope his legal mistress stays in perfect health until she dies.
So let the GOP self-destruct. Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow. Better get used to it.
I don’t recall Les Kinsolving or any other reporter demanding that G.W. Bush’s press secretary confirm Bush was born at Grace-New Haven Hospital.
We once had a Rambler American. It DID NOT have electric wipers. The windshield wiper motor was run by a vacuum. When the car was at a red light, the wipers barely swept. We we started moving, the wipers started sweeping.
American Motors sold itself to Renault, who put it out of its misery. AMC is the car company that gave us the Gremlin AND the Pacer – managing to get two cars on the “50 Worst Cars Ever” list.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/0,28757,1658545,00.html
The exception was the Jeep.
But in addition to the Rambler, Gremlin and Pacer, I’d also like to forget the AMC:
Metropolitan
Marlin
Ambassador
Matador
Hornet
AMX
Spirit
Eagle Wagon
Concord
(Renault) Alliance/Encore and LeCar
Some real nasty stains on the history of the American automotive industry.
Where was this crowd agonizing about the Constitution in 1968, when Romney ran for pres? Oh yeah, he’s white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney
Please try to keep up:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/obamaletter750x910.jpg
You are giving these far, far, more weight than they deserve.
Two of the better researched sources for the debate about the meaning of “NBC” were written in the context of Romney’s campaign. The first, by Pincknee McElwee concluded he would not be eligible. The second, by Charles Gordon, which has been cited here on this website before, concluded he would be. It’s obvious when reading the two, who got the better of the argument.
Romney had his birther. There have been a handful of pre-Obama birthers. In this tiny handful of scholars, however, 99% of the focus has been on those born abroad. We winnow down from a handful to, as far as I can tell, one scholar in the history of the nation who claims, unequivocally, that the child of an alien is some type of citizen, just not a natural born citizen. His argument, however, is weakened by the fact that he was making it against a former Supreme Court justice, and is further weakened by the fact that this candidate later rejoined the Supreme Court as its Chief Justice.
Three guesses who had the better grasp of Constitutional law?
From Wikipedia: “Romney was a candidate for President of the United States in 1968. While initially a front-runner, he proved an ineffective campaigner, and fell behind Richard Nixon in polls. Following a mid-1967 remark that his earlier support for the Vietnam War had been due to a “brainwashing” by U.S. military and diplomatic officials in Vietnam, his campaign faltered even more, and he withdrew from the contest in early 1968.
I don’t remember any outcry about his Mexican birth – he was born to US citizens.
Dr. Conspiracy, this whole affair about that letter is just plain bizarre. If the White House didn’t write it, the only conclusion you can draw is that Abercrombie must have written it. But why would he go to such lengths, perhaps even criminal lengths, to do such a thing? All he should have had to do as a congressman from Obama’s home state is ask of the White House, “BTW, Kapiolani hospital where Obama was born is having a centennial celebration. Could the White House draft a letter congratulating them?”
The White House puts out such congratulatory letters all the time. There is nothing controversial about them. It’s not like it’s a secret letter to Gadhafi. Perhaps Abercrombie considered it so non-controversial that he would just be reflecting the White House’s feelings anyway if he wrote it since everyone “knows” Obama was born at Kapiolani.
Or maybe some low level functionary at the White House wrote it. Since again everyone “knows” Obama was born at Kapiolani maybe they felt it would be no harm at all in their standard congratulatory-type letter if they mentioned Obama was born there.
But now the White House won’t comment at all on the Abercombie effort to prove Obama’s birth place or the letter or anything to do with it. It’s bizarre.
Note: one of the comments above suggested perhaps Obama wasn’t born in a hospital. That may be true. Home births certainly do occur. He would be a natural born citizen in that case. It would be a political problem for him though if there were no witnesses besides the mother and grandparents for then the doubters could still say there was no proof he was a natural born citizen. So that could be another reason why he would not want to release his birth records. But still for a home birth you would think they would take the baby to a hospital to be checked out soon after the birth and there should still be records of such a visit even after 50 years.
Bob
It’s not bizarre when you remember that Obama doesn’t want to give anything at all to the birthers.
Simple rule: Don’t answer any questions by or about birthers, they are mouth-breathing cretins.
See, if you assume the Obama White House is operating by that one simple rule, then it is not at all “bizarre” to think they’d refuse to answer questions about this particular letter.
Now, is it reasonable to think the Obama White House thinks birthers are mouth-breathing cretins?
As far as I can tell, Conservatives think Obama views them all, birthers or no, as mouth-breathing cretins. Why would it be a stretch to think he would consider birthers to also require transport via the short bus?
Again, let’s apply Occam’s Razor:
Which is more likely: Obama and his administration think birthers are too dumb to tie their own shoelaces, or Abercrombie committed fraud?
The White House wrote it. You haven’t given a single reason for Obama himself not to have written it other than “well he might not have”. Ok, the sun might not have risen yesterday, I might not be a man, I might have had a cat for breakfast.
There’s no reason for him not to write it because Obama always said he was born at Kaapiolani. Dreams from my Father, remember? And no, Maya Soerto never said he wasn’t, either.
If that’s your definition of bizarre, that he wrote a letter telling the truth. and then ignoring stupid imbeciles asking him 50 times over whether he wrote it or not because they are too stupid to believe him, then you live in a very very scary world.
Guess what, I tend to ignore stupid jerks calling me a liar with no evidence too.
Perhaps a touch of hyperbole on my part. However, I do remember the controversy about his birth place at the time. I quite liked Romney and thought that the conservative view point deserved a reasonably intelligent person to represent it. I was looking forward to a McCarthy v. Romney election (and a McCarthy win) and I correctly predicted that a Nixon nomination would end in disaster for the country, win or lose. The NBC issue definitely caused Romney some polling points.
The Mexican birth story was definitely widely played in Arizona and contrasted with Goldwater’s birth in Arizona Territory and was the subject of many Constitution lesson plans in civics classes.
The crux of the argument was whether George’s father emigrated to Mexico with the intention of staying or was there temporarily seeking refuge. The fact is he had no intention of returning, and did so only when he lost his political sponsorship as a result of the turmoil preceding the Mexican Revolution.
In other words, George’s father was effectively kicked out of Mexico. The Mormon there colony was causing more unrest than their bribes to the landed gentry were worth.
What causes you to doubt it? The Obama signature on the bottom or the White House imprint on the top?
Obama did not mention which hospital he was born in in Dreams from my Father. He just mentions he found his birth certificate.
The White House still has not confirmed or denied that it indeed did write the Kapiolani letter.
Bob
I gather you are a mature gentlemen. With maturity you realize it is not appropriate to use insults with terms like “short bus” and “special olympics” (certain public officials not withstanding.)
Bob
So, who cares?
There is NO requirement to be born in a hospital to be NBC. Being born in any state of the US is fully sufficient to meet that requirement – whether that took place in a hospital, a barn or on the side of the road.
You are nothing but a Concern Troll trying to nitpick meaningless points that have NO EFFECT whatsoever on his eligibility or ability to be POTUS.
Can you cite any letter written by any White House in the last 20 years that they have confirmed writing?
The White House churns out literally thousands of such letters every year. Any US citizen can get one for turning 80 or having a 50th wedding anniversary http://www.ehow.com/how_2098775_get-letter-from-president.html
Any university, hospital, service organization or professional society celebrating a significant milestone can get one. Mrs. Sullivan’s third grade class can get one.
Do you think the White House would take the trouble to confirm any of those? A letter on White House stationary, signed by the President speaks for itself. Why do you birthers (I know, you’re not a birther, right?) have such trouble with such a simple concept?
A lot of people care, and the numbers are growing.
Obama has not proven birth in a hospital in Hawaii, nor birth in Hawaii.
He refuses to take the simple, easy and inexpensive step of producing the documents which would kick the arses of the ‘birthers’ ……………….. now why is that?
Obama is a fraud and you know it, but can’t face it.
Your Prime Minister seems to disagree with you http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/picture-of-the-day-obama-tosses-football-with-australian-pm-julia-gillard/72246/
Are you talking to me?
Because I have not used those words. Here or elsewhere, except when I am describing a bus that is not as long as another, or admiring the performances of Olympians in wheel chairs and carbon fibre feet.
Yes, I was speaking to you. Not every comment on this forum is an insult. Rather than responding to someone who did use those terms I was acknowledging your maturity in not using them.
Bob
He’s produced the only document he needs to produce.
Not only has his birth certificate been on the internet for several years now for the whole wide world to see, he’s had the Governor of his birth state, the Director Of Health of that state, the Attorney General of that state, the Hawaii Registrar of Vital Statistics and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, all members of the opposition political party, confirm his birth in Hawaii.
And the Irony Meter goes OFF THE SCALE!!!!
The brain dead fool posting above thinks that the Constitution requires a president to be born in a hospital! Sorry George Washington, we’re revoking your presidency!
Barack Obama is the only president for whom I know the exact moment of his birth: 7:24 pm, on Friday, August 4, 1961.
Barack Obama’s birth certificate has been available for anyone on the planet to see via the internet for nearly three years now.
Obama has no interest in appeasing folks who would never vote for him in a million years. As long as Congress and the Supreme Court support his eligibility, he remains the 44th President of the United States: no impeachment or eligibility hearings in Congress and no decisions by the Supreme Court.
“The state of Hawaii has said that he was born there. That’s good enough for me.” John Boehner, Speaker of the House
Sorry Mr. Clark, but it isn’t immature to point out the nature of those (like yourself) who have shown themselves to be willful lying idiots. You’re nothing more than a intentionally ignorant serial liar and you should expect to be treated as such – if you don’t like it, then stop lying and start acknowledging the facts…
Yes, I was speaking to you. Not every comment on this forum is an insult. Rather than responding to someone who did use those terms I was acknowledging your maturity in not using them.
Bob
I’m aware these discussions get heated. Some terminology should be off limits in any debate.
Bob
I’m not in any way heated or upset with you, I’m just saying that you are an intellectually dishonest, willfully ignorant, lying bigot. The only one that gets to decide if my terminology is off-limits is Doc C (his site, his rules…). Right now my purpose is to point out to unpatriotic birther hatriots like yourself that your actions are helping to reelect the president (I do this for the amusement of myself and, hopefully, others – birthers like you have already demonstrated that you are not smart enough to pour pee out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel nor are you and your ilk capable of understanding how your actions are having exactly the opposite effect that you intend. I commend you for working so hard to ensure President Obama’s second term!
Birthers make Karl Rove cry.
Listen mister, a few more comments like that and the cost of replacing everyone’s keyboards (destroyed by unintentionally spraying beverage damage) will bankrupt you…
Dammit, now I gotta go donate to Orly Taitz…
These are probably the same people who have TGIF tattooed on their feet.
LMAO!
Suranis:
MW: “Birthers make Karl Rove cry.”
“Dammit, now I gotta go donate to Orly Taitz…”
Weekly truck deliveries of OC Whore Makeup aren’t cheap. And she really needs help.
Slartibartfast:
MW: “Birthers make Karl Rove cry.”
“Listen mister, a few more comments like that and the cost of replacing everyone’s keyboards (destroyed by unintentionally spraying beverage damage) will bankrupt you…”
The GOP will cover it. They can bury it with strip club and new wardrobe expenses.
You’re welcome!
Bob