Woah! Just when I got a new case of popcorn in stock, all excited about tomorrow’s hearing in Atlanta, Obama’s attorney Michael Jablonski is trying to call the whole thing off.
In a letter to the Brian P. Kemp, Georgia Secretary of State, attorney Jablonski says things are spinning out of control and he requests that Kemp withdraw his request for the hearing.
…the Administrative Law Judge has exercised no control whatsoever over this proceeding, and it threatens to degenerate into a pure forum for political posturing to the detriment of the reputation of the State and your Office.
Jablonski seems to be saying at the end of his letter that he’s not going to show up at the hearing either.
Wowzers! I didn’t expect that. The hearing is only hours away. Let’s see what happens.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.T S Eliot
Full text of Jablonski letter:
Georgia – Jablonski Letter to GA Secretary of State – 1-25-12
what a perfectly delightful way to say “buzz off”
poor birthers got no candy
Basicially he’s saying what Jack is saying in this commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVWU8ooOQpY
Just make me show up!
😛
The Georgia SoS pulling the plug on this debacle before it can get really rolling is probably the sanest possible outcome at this point, and it seems like Jablonski’s got a pretty good argument that this should be done.
God the rage from Orly if this happens will be magical.
Basically this is like the parking ticket a friend got in a private parking lot with private parking meters. She got an official looking citation in an official looking envelope. It looked like a city parking citation except for the fine print that said it wasn’t from a government agency. It also only gave 10 days to pay when a city parking citation would usually be at least 3 weeks.
If she just blew it off, they couldn’t do the things that a local government agency could do, which is place a hold on a vehicle’s registration and/or eventually boot a wheel. I don’t even know if the DMV allows them to look up a vehicle’s registration to contact the owner. I think the best they could do is maybe tow a vehicle if they ever identify it on their property.
That’s what this thing has turned into. This judge basically has no powers that a superiors court judge has, including issuing warrants or motions to compel. He can’t place Jablonski in contempt of court. All he can do if Jablonski doesn’t show is try to come to a conclusion on the merits as he sees them.
This has turned into a spectacular display of surreal theater.
She did spend a great deal of money for this, but not my problem.
Sorry, this looks like more sloppy lawyering from Jablonsky. None of the other court cases have reached the merits and to the extent that his letter implies otherwise, he’s misrepresenting those cases. Georgia does have a law allowing anyone to challenge the qualifications of candidates. Why not simply introduce a certified copy of the president’s birth certificate and some affidavits establishing residency, and have done with it? Let the administrative judge deal with the nuts.
So, is Administrative Law Judge Mahili pulling an Ito?
I already suggested that earlier. However, I doubt I’m the first to have come up with that thought.
I believe that I just heard Orly’s head explode.
I’m going to claim partial victory on last night’s prediction-that this would end as being a political matter. I said eligibility is ultimately decided by Congress, which will do exactly what they did in 2009 when they certifed Mr Obama (and every day it looks more and more likely he will be re-elected). Of course, at this level it is a state political matter whichwas already resolved by the SoS, who correctly put the President on the ballot. Mr Jablonski’s point that the parties control the primary ballot is of course, dead on and the SoS knows this.
I humbly accept your congratulations and/or ridicule. Please stay tuned for my Super Bowl call.
Scientist will correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t vacuum-containing canisters generally tend to IMplode?
He may have his hands tied if he can’t persuade the Obama campaign to send one (or more) copies to the Georgia Democratic Committee. There’s speculation that all this posturing is due to direct orders from the people paying him. I think they might also be interested in not setting a precedent where kooks are given equal time.
I believe that the law does give the Geogia SoS the discretion to proceed himself, although the office seems to refer cases to the administrative courts from time to time.
How about both? Sort of like a supernova.
I congratulate you on your ridiculously accurate prediction.
Sentiment over at Fogbow now seems to be that a good share of the blame for this mess lies with the SOS for referring this issue to the ACJ in the first place; that Jablonski was right all along that primary ballot eligibility is controlled by the parties, and is outside the jurisdiction of the SOS; and that neither the ACL nor the SOS has the authority to be deciding constitutional issues in any case.
Dang – I just pulled an all-nighter (I’m half a day ahead of most of you) prepping for a hearing that looks to not be happening.
In any case, looks like Doc’s now got a thread for this, so I’m off to join that one.
Silly me, I’m already here 🙂
Or a fit of pique. Either way, I agree with elmo that Jablonsky should let the judge deal with the nuts. In the past, other attorney’s have had to say very little as Orly and Company dug their own graves.
I wonder if he waited until today so that all of the airline tickets Orly purchased will already be used and not refundable…
I gotta go with the consensus on this one: no way Jablonski did this one on his own recognizance. It’s doubtful he even wrote the letter himself. After his screw-up with the motion to dismiss last week, there’s no doubt in my mind the Georgia DNC and the Obama legal eagles have the guy on a pretty short leash.
Right, the primary race belongs the the party that runs it–so why didn’t Jablonsky argue this from the beginning?
Agreed! More importantly, an UNNECESSARY spectacular display of surreal theater that seems to just be escalating out of control… I think all parties involved share some of the blame for furthering this escalation into absurdity.
Elmo, I agree with you!
That is the ONLY valid argument I can fathom behind this…
I echo that question…
I think you’re forgetting something. Jablonski has been practicing political law in Georgia since the days of Jimmy Carter. I expect he and the SoS know each other very well. The SoS was wrong to refer this for what he should have known would become a public circus. The primary belongs to the Democratic Party and the sitting President of that party will be on the ballot no matter what.
IANAL, so I wouldn’t begin to hazard a guess as to whether that would be the best outcome legally, but I gotta agree with you — it sure would be sweet to watch the entire birther world explode (/implode/supernova) if the plug gets pulled at, say, 8:58am.
The reaction will be typical — “Obama got to the SOS!” — but the theatre will be special.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t had this much fun birther-watching since — well, ever.
I cannot imagine Jablonski did this on his own. Most likely this is the decision of the Obama re-election campaign and the Georgia Democratic Party. The fact the letter is coming out today suggests that after theMotion to Dismiss, the Motion to Quash, the move to the bigger curtroom, Hatfield’s request for every piece of paper ever touched by the President, Hatfield’s motion to Determine Burden of Proof, and Judge Mahili’s order to respond by Monday noon to that last motion, the people running the campaign said enough of this nonsense, “tell them f*ck off.”
Judge Mahili encouraged the nonsense, whether because he wanted to be overly fair to the palintiffs or because he looking to be the next Judge Judy (ala Judge Seidlin), it was his reponsiblity to rein this circus in before it got to this point.
Doc, u lost
http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1675/600/Jablonski_to_Georgia_Secretary_of_State:_stop_the_hearing.html
Jablonski to Georgia Secretary of State: stop the hearing!
I was thinking about an article this afternoon, tentatively titled “Second guessing” that would have said that people might do better not to predict what will happen tomorrow.
Consider it said.
The question has already been asked over at Fogbow, and the only hypothesis offered was that “weeks ago” no one expected this to turn into a circus — that Malihi wouldn’t lose control, and that a simple motion to quash a clearly unenforceable (and likely invalid) subpoena wouldn’t be denied, that Malihi would actually accomodate the media frenzy by trying to move it to a larger venue, surrounded with all the trappings of a *real* court (talk about feeding birther delusions!), and so forth.
But I’m not sure it’s fair to ask, “Why didn’t he?” Didn’t he raise that point in the MtQ last week? And I seem to recall reading, at least over at TPN, squealings about Jablonski trying to tell the state the parties control the primary.
Wise advice!
Not forgotten (and I suspect he and Malihi are well-acquainted as well). And Jablonski’s letter made both that point and the point that the constitutional questions that were going to be raised were outside both Malihi’s and the SoS’s competence.
The parties do control the primaries. When states violate party rules about when they can hold their primary, the party refuses gto recognize the delegates selected. The SoS and the ALJ are well aware of this and there should be no need to point that out to them.
I blame the SoS more than the judge. He should have called the objectors into his office in private and said, “Whaddya got?” In 5 minutes he could have seen that they had nothing and he could have ended the entire matter.
You know, I get the distinct impression even the Fogbow crowd was caught off-guard by this. So yeah, sage advice.
I agree with you that if the SOS chooses to stop the hearing, birthers will intensify their charges of conspiracy, but that’s not theatre I want to see. I can only imagine the malevolent and vociferious comments that such an action would generate on this site.
Point taken!
It’ll probably be back on the Judge’s desk:
616-1-2-.17 Withdrawal of Hearing Request; Settlement. Amended.
(1) A party requesting a hearing may withdraw the request for hearing at any time, in writing or otherwise, whereupon the Administrative Law Judge may enter an order of dismissal with prejudice.
(2) The parties may agree to settle the matters in dispute at any time, whereupon the Administrative Law Judge shall enter an order of dismissal with prejudice.
In retrospect we probably should have realized that something different was up when Jablonski failed to file another motion to quash Orly’s subpoena.
Yep, he asked the Georgia secretary of state to stop the kookfest and bring these folks back to the real world, albiet kicking and screaming Kenyan Muslim, get out!!!
I read his letter just now over at free republic and came over here to see what you had up, Dr. Conspiracy, and VIOLA!!! You’re on top of it.
At any rate, his letter says that the ALJ let things run amok and I agree……that ALJ knows good and well that President Obama was not coming to Georgia, that he could not compel the president to come, but he went ahead and let it appear as if he could.
Most folks here said crazy orly’s subpoenas wer baseless, not just for President Obama, but for all kinds of folks all over the country to whom she directed them, and the ALJ should have said just that, irrespective of Jablonski’s motion to quash.
Anyhow, bummer, cause I also was waiting for the birthers to go wild when their god Orly LOST……..AGAIN and and the end of business on January 26, 2012, the scary black man was STIL President of the United States.
I’ve seen this statement before…..what’s an Ito???
Didn’t he file a motion to dismiss that more or less said that? That this was a party preference primary and that it belongs to the party?
Lance Ito. Superior Court judge in Los Angeles County. Presided over the O.J. Simpson murder trial.
Hilarious!!! When I read your post, I was thinking, Oh, he’s got a special special thread besides this one and I was about to scroll up to go to it until I saw your second post.
I’m laughing at me…….
Orly did spend a great deal of her deluded donors’ money for this.
Orly is a wealthy, part time dentist, amateur attorney and fear mongering political “decedent” who spends the Social Security checks of poor, angry bigots to tilt at windmills for them.
And that’s their problem. They deserve to be covered in fleas.
I too, declare victory: No defense will be presented. Jablonsky packed up his toys and went home! I guess the hearing will proceed anyway? I have yet to hear of a judge cancelling because a party doesn’t show. The lawyers in the audience may have some relevant anecdotes…?
I am impressed by narrative aspects of the letter, sounds like he’s either a closet anti-birther, or spent the weekend brushing up 😀
I’d imagine the hearing may or may not happen at the SoS’s discretion at this point.
It sounds to me as if Judge Malihi was upset that Jablonski didn’t seem to take this as seriously as if he were submitting a motion to a trial court judge. The language in the denial seemed like he didn’t appreciate being treated like he’s a “minor league” judge, and that he could do some of this fancy lawyering stuff too.
A lot of the stuff Orly has been asking for is so over the top that I’m thinking a trial court judge seeing the same things filed in his court might put a stop to it even without a motion to quash.
I also have a hard time thinking that anyone in Georgia would even think of giving her commission or letters rogatory when Georgia statutes clearly reserves those for deposition requests in foreign countries. Is the final straw where Orly gets sanctioned by the California State Bar?
I know…….I’ve actually been in his court room, on the witness stand, testifying as an expert notary public, but I digress.
Is “pulling an Ito” someone who let’s a trial run amok? That what you mean?
…where’s that darn LIKE button!!!
I’m also claiming a partial victory in that you’re still ugly and your mother still dresses you funny.
😉
Unfortunately I think this will only make the birthers feel more galvanized in their beliefs. Not that this will change anything legally, but to a birther this will be interpreted as “Obama’s running scared.”
Agreed.
That could be it…….Judge Malihi’s ego was a little bruised…..that’s sounds logical (said in cartoon voice).
What was that cartoon where the character always said, no matter what crazy comment he was responding to: “That sounds logical.” Don’t take offense. I wasn’ saying your post was not logical – I just got sidetracked when that cartoon voice popped into my head.
I could be wrong (I haven’t been in nearly fifteen minutes, so I’m overdue) but I think several of the lawyers over there suspected something *was* up; just nobody predicted *this*. Now the discussion seems to be veering away from why didn’t Jablonski refile toward why did he file in the first place, if they were planning this?
As to hindsight, it has an annoying habit of reminding us how we not nearly as smart as we think we are. Or maybe that’s just me 🙂
They are already SCREAMING that over on free republic. You see, President Obama has this case front and center in his life. He took a little time off last night for that State of the Union address, but went right back to reading free republic and wondering what they were doing and having a fit and smoking and all kinds of stuff because he was so nervous about this TRIAL!!!!!!!!!!
Winston Chrchill was once speaking with a woman at a party and used some crude language. She reproached him with, “Sir, you are drunk.” He replied, “Madam, you are ugly. Tomorrow morning I will be sober, but you will still be ugly”
Yup. Some of the stuff that he let happen during the trial was legendary for how out of hand it got and how he let people know that he was enjoying the attention.
That’s exactly what may — or may not — happen (in my best Vroomfondle and Magicthighs voice).
Looked it up. That was Katnip the Cat.
Now that’d be icing on the cake, but I’m not holding my breath. So far the California bar has declined every excuse Orly has given them for sanctions and/or disbarment. And it’s certainly not as if she hasn’t been trying.
Well let’s face it, that was going to happen no matter which of the several logically possible outcomes of the hearing were.
After awhile does it really matter why the nutbags are screaming?
Malihi could be the greatest legal mind of our time. However, he is not an independent judge, but part of the state administration and subordinate to the SoS. The letter states as much-“Nonetheless, the ALJ has decided, for whatever reason, to lend assistance through his office — and by extension, yours”
This process is in the hands of an elected politician, the SoS, not the ALJ, and he is a Republican. While the birthers are at present significant in the Republican party, they are poison among Democrats and Independents. And if he kowtows to them, it will be said that the Republicans are afraid to have Mitt and Newt face Obama in a fair fight (they probably are). Also, if he messes with a Democratic primary, what would stop a emocratic SoS from messing with a Republican one?
Of course it was…….thanks!!!! Now on to You tube…….
I had sense of the same thing you’ve described, but I decided that I was just reading things into it. Who knows?
Thanks doc for posting the entire letter. It gave me the chance to look up ultra vires 🙂
Interesting statement from the Georgia Blues today:
“Several lawsuits were recently filed against President Obama questioning whether he is an American citizen in an attempt to remove him from the Georgia primary ballot. Despite the fact that these issues have been thoroughly litigated, a hearing has been scheduled in these cases for Thursday, January 26, 2012. The Democratic Party of Georgia is not a party to any of these lawsuits.
“This afternoon we received a letter from counsel for the President directed to the Georgia Secretary of State asking him to intervene in these lawsuits and bring them to a halt, because it is well established that there is no issue here – a fact validated time and again by courts in this country.
“In the letter, counsel also indicated that they had no interest in continuing to appear or participate further in the litigation and have suspended their involvement.
“We respect the President’s position and urge the Secretary of State to bring this matter to a conclusion. We also believe that each political party has the absolute legal right to determine who should appear on their primary and general election ballots according to their own rules without interference from outside parties.
“In light of these developments the Democratic Party of Georgia has no plans to continue to be involved in these baseless cases. Furthermore the Democratic Party of Georgia will cooperate with the President and his campaign in any way requested to make sure that his name appears on the primary and general election ballots for 2012.”
So, they’re aren’t a party to the lawsuits, check; also implies Jablonsky, the party’s chief counsel, is acting completely independently of the party, check; and further that the position stated in the letter is the President’s position (didn’t notice any reference to “client” in the letter, but whatever) … but then wraps up by stating the party will not “continue” to be involved…after spelling out just how uninvolved they have been? Nuts!
As I’ve been saying, the party sees this as party business and wants the state to step off. 😉
It is a disappointing anticlimax tho. Kind of hard to claim the moral high ground this way. It is tiresome, and repetitive, but play along, show respect for the law, the court and its officers, it only costs time.
It may be even more immediate than that. Birthers are poison among Republicans as well — or at least the ones who care about such things. The media circus this has devolved is an exploding stinkbomb that’s getting stink all over Georgian Republicans, and it’s probably in the best interests of his own party to. Make. This. Go. Away. NOW.
Poor Republicans. They’ve built themselves a methane-powered world in which the source of all their energy is concentrated in the sh*thouse.
I’d like to know if the RNC endorses Carl’s riseupforamerica.com and his fringe on the flag, sovereign citizen b.s. and especially this part from Neil Turner quoted on his site:
“And if you are among the BETRAYERS/TRAITORS – then educate yourself to the inevitable, and get on board the next train, plane, or ship out of our Constitutional Republic, or face a BETRAYER/TRAITOR’s firing squad. The choice is yours.”
Carl is the chairman of the Clayton County, GA Republican Party.
You’re right, but my concern are the fence sitters whose votes might be based on an actual ruling of the SOS.
This gives time for birther spin to plant some seeds in the (admittedly small) minds of some who aren’t certain.
Still, has anyone ever truly quantified just how many birthers there are or what percentage of voters they comprise?
Orly will try and spin this as a victory somehow too (she always does) and unless someone yanks her license soon, it just means more money to her and more suits in other states. The CA Bar needs to nip her in the bud at this point- license revocation, sanctions, draw and quartering (J/K)
We simply can’t worry or care too much how Birthers and Freepers interpret stuff. Regardless of the outcome, they will tell themselves stuff like that anyways.
Such is completely predictable. However, in the bigger picture, it still doesn’t change reality at all, regardless of what they scream or how loud and frothingly they scream it.
LOL! I got a huge kick out of your typo there…
…emocratic SOS…
LOL!
There are quite a few Birthers in public office in GA. Even their Governor, Nathan Deal (GOP), played quite a bit of flirty Birther games before he left US congress and became Governor…
Heck, one of the plaintiff’s in these Birther challenges at play tomorrow is a GA GOP office holder.
So yeah, the stink of Birtherism is already fairly strong on the GOP in GA as it is.
The DNC is NOT a party to the proceedings, in the legal sense (they are not named as a defendant), so the letter’s quite correct in that. But yeah, you can bet your Auntie Lou’s peach preserves they’ve been up to their elbows in this behind the scenes for some time now. Should anyone be surprised at that? After all, the lawsuits are challenging *their* primary.
As to the rest, of course it’s a political game. I think it’s just a case of birther sour grapes at getting so utterly, irretrievably, unexpectedly steamrolled in a political game they were naive enough to think they could play in, let alone win. Of course, their worldview utterly forbids them from crediting Obama with any intelligence at all, which means they’ll be forever clueless about where that ton of bricks came from.
I say this as an independent who is not at all happy with some of the things Obama has done, but on THIS all I can do is stand back in awe and say Brilliant! Absolutely, mindbogglingly, freeping BRILLIANT! Just when birthers were convinced they finally had Obama on the ropes, with one single devastating letter Obama has made the entire Georgia state Republican party rue the day they let Orly off the plane.
If the Fogbow crowd didn’t see this coming, I suspect Republicans in Georgia are still trying to figure out what hit them.
Brilliant.
Looks like the circus is still on. The SoS hath spoken.
(from the Fogbow)
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/79405341
J. Potter: I guess the hearing will proceed anyway? I have yet to hear of a judge cancelling because a party doesn’t show. The lawyers in the audience may have some relevant anecdotes…?
I have seen civil case in which one party failed to appear and the judge just adjourned the case for a week or two. If the plaintiff were to repeatedly fail to appear, a judge might well dismiss a case. I have never seen a judge enter a default judgment against a defendant for failing to appear one time.
However, this case is atypical because it is not a trial and the defense attorney has pretty much announced that he is not going to show, and Mahili has no authority to enter a judgment for anyone. All he can do is make a recommendation to the Secretary of State, which the SOS is free to accept or reject.
Given all of the unknowns. I wouldn’t hazard a guess about what will happen tomorrow. I would assume that Orly and some of her “witnesses” are already in Atlanta.
Oh, you just beat me to the punch. I was about to post the same thing.
The SOS responded back to Jablonski & said the Hearing is still on and was intentionally scheduled for a purpose.
The SOS also warned Jablonski that, although he can chose to not participate, doing such would be ill advised, as the SOS will then only have the other sides’ arguments to rely on when it makes its own ruling and review of the material…
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79405341/Obama-s-Attorney-Jaberwoki-Slapped-Down-By-Georgia-SOS-1-25-2012
“Anything you and your client place in the record in response to the challenge will be beneficial to my review of the initial decision; however, if you and your client choose to suspend your participation in the OSAH proceedings, please understand that you do so at your own peril.”
Oh, snap again. It’s a good thing I have plenty of popcorn.
This is full on political grandstanding from both sides.
Lost what precisely? I’m a debunker. Birthers are as debunked today as they were yesterday.
I completely disagree.
Escalating things to an all out political pissing contest between the two parties in GA just seems to bring broader and protracted attention to an issue otherwise unworthy of attention.
While I fully grasp the “put on notice” letter that Jablonski wrote to the SoS, I still think it would be very, very unwise for Jablonski to NOT show up and be prepared to provide the very SIMPLE defenses needed at the hearing tomorrow.
If he doesn’t show up and just let’s the other side spew its nonsense unchecked, he’s only do a disservice to quickly closing the door on this crazy…and is just as responsible for allowing it to further spiral out of control and into an even bigger debacle than it was before.
While I can completely agree that all these filings are frivolous and based on stupid and insulting insinuations in the first place, the professional response is to simply, quickly and efficiently shut them down.
To me, (and yes, IANAL), that would mean showing up at the hearing and providing some sort of standard evidence (whether signed affidavit attesting to meeting the conditions or a certified paper copy of the COLB) that simply ends the question right then and there about whether they’ve qualfied their candidate to be on the ballot.
Instead, I see a political game of chicken and escalating pissing contest at play. If the GA GOP is truly trying to feed this issue all along… then Jablonski refusing to show up and counter it tomorrow just plays into their hands and makes it easier for them to extend this clown circus way beyond what should have been its expiration date.
To my knowledge (which is somewhat informed in this instance), no one was aware of the letter until Orly posted it on her site.
That is probably true, but I wonder if the move to the smaller hearing room may indicate a collaborative effort between the Georgia Democrats and the GOP.
Jablonski is horribly mishandling this. Anything that looks like obfustication will only be seized upon by the birthers and the credulous masses.
He should just show up, submit a copy of the Hawaii certificate, shrug his shoulders, and sit down.
At this point, there is no indication that anything has been done in the way of canceling the hearing. I presume that Orly Taitz et al will show up at the court room in the morning, Jablonski or no.
I would have preferred hearing “objection,” “sustained” all morning, but then it’s not about me.
Perhaps he’s done some reading here 😉 I DO NOT KNOW THAT, but it’s nice to imagine this site performing the function for which it was made.
In light of the SoS response to him, that is exactly what I hopes he takes the hint and does tomorrow…
Well said.
The birthers blogs are already reporting that the Secretary of State has denied Jablonski’s request.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/01/obamas-attorney-jablonski-slapped-down.html
Once again, IANAL, but I just don’t get this: “Look, if you don’t show, I’m going to be forced to ignore the fact that Obama has Hawaii-state-certified BCs posted on the internet; I’m going to have to pretend I didn’t know the HDOH has issued numerous official statements corroborating Obama’s birth. I’m going to have forget I’ve ever heard of the Fulll Faith and Credit clause in the Constitution. I’m going to have to act as if I didn’t know I have no competence to rule on this matter. I’m going to have to presume the ACJ’s recommendation is binding on me and I have no discretionary judgement of my own. And instead I’m going to let a bunch of lunatic birthers dictate to me what the law says.”
And then spend the rest of his life living with the ignominy of being overturned roughly three milliseconds after he rules.
[Hm, I was debating whether hitting Submit on this would just result in me embarrassing myself with a public display of ignorance, but I see someone over at Fogbow just pretty much said the said thing, so at least I’m going to embarrass myself in good company 🙂 ]
Sooooo…. the SoS is implying he may well take the entire state birther if Jablonski gives him the appropriate response (Which is: “¡¡¡BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!”) ?
Sooooo … a Deep South, Bloody Red state might officially go birther?!?!?
All I can say is: ¡¡¡BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!
It’s like a Reconstruction flashback!
It’s Presidential Poe-etry!
“Escalating things to an all out political pissing contest between the two parties in GA just seems to bring broader and protracted attention to an issue otherwise unworthy of attention.”
If the issue is unworthy of attention, *WHY THE HELL ARE ALL OF YOU SPENDING 3 YEARS BLOGGING ABOUT IT* … Stop being obtuse.
Who knows if the SoS is just trying to be anal about his job or intentionally looking to use Birtherism to play politics here…
For one thing – your argument about online images doesn’t count as court worthy evidence…so that is as faulty as Birthers making that claim these past few years to discredit an online image.
The image is irrelevant in both cases. FFAC doesn’t apply to images over the internet – only the actual paper certified document can be used or presented as official evidence to a court or agency. So yes, if Obama’s attorney isn’t providing any actual physical documentation… then NOTHING has been provided as actual evidence.
There is now a reason to be suspicious of possible underlying political motives in play this whole time – from the GOP SoS initiating this (under a Governor who’s been “Birther” before) to the unusually pissy obstinance from the Democratic defense. Who is to say that the SoS hasn’t been politically hoping to make a story out of this the entire time?
So I still argue that the smartest thing is for the Defense to simply show up tomorrow and get whatever evidence he can on the record to put this to bed quickly and not let this clown show continue to blow further out of proportion…
Oh, I agree, and said pretty much the same thing upthread (or was it a different thread?) a couple hours ago: seems to this NAL-type prudence would dictate that the better part of valor in this case would be to make sure the ACJ and/or SOS has a certified copy of the BC in their hot little hands. Jablonski could have stapled a copy to the back of his letter.
In fact, Jablonski could have submitted the BC as evidence weeks ago and this would all have been long dead and cold.
Given that this is all blindingly obvious to a legal idiot like me, there just isn’t a snowball’s chance in Gehenna the thought never occurred to the brilliant legal minds behind Obama’s defense — just show the judge the d*mn birth certificate!
And that’s what gives me pause. The fact that they haven’t submitted the BC absolutely HAS TO BE deliberate. I can’t begin to fathom what they’re planning, but it’s absolutely impossible for me to believe they’ve overlooked this. Obama did not staff his legal office with stupid.
It’s also impossible for me to believe that Jablonski is acting on his own. This thing has blown so far past minor nuisance at this point, that he has to be a puppet dancing on a (very short) leash. There’s absolutely no way the White House legals are letting Jablonski run this show. Again they’re NOT idiots.
So no, I don’t have a clue as to what’s going on behind the scenes. That stuff’s WAY above my pay grade. It’s just that whatever I may (or may not) think of Obama’s politics, the guy is, in two words, bleeping smart. To think the White House let this get out of control would be to accuse them of levels of incompetence going way beyond anything even the Bush adminstration ever evinced.
My only conclusion is there are things going on here I don’t understand (and THAT’s not at all difficult to believe 🙂 ).
Why do people enjoy trips to the zoo?
Why do they go to comedy clubs just to see other people talk?
I admit, at this point that little bit’s got me puzzled. It seemed for a time the move back to a smaller venue was somebody’s attempt to reign in Malihi’s three-ring circus, but now the SOS has decided to proceed with Barnum & Bailey, so my puzzler’s puzzled.
Learn how CAUSE & EFFECT work.
The site is called Obama Conspiracy Theories. We REPORT and analyze those things.
If they didn’t exist, we wouldn’t be here. We don’t create this nonsense, we simply response and report on it. *DUH*
Sounds like there is a lot of on the ground internal back & forth politics that has been in play here all along… stuff that we simply can’t see from our removed POV.
It is very possible that these Birther suits just became a handy propoganda tool in an already existing dynamic of political tussle at play in the state and between its various affected branches.
This thread is so “5 hours ago”
I am told that the new room seats 100. That should be way more than enough for 60 birthers and a token Obot. Oh wait, Orly subpoenaed more witnesses than that.
Reading between the lines gives me a headache.
Any consistent analysis of the situation must take this fact into account.
We’re a niche market.
I don’t have any idea what the threshold for evidence here is. It’s not a law court, just a “fact-finding” hearing. My point with mentioning the Internet images was simply to say the BC is common knowledge; Kemp and Malihi know all about it.
Whether “being aware of it” is sufficient knowledge for a ruling, or whether Malihi and Kemp need to have an actual copy in their hands, I don’t know. Things like burden of proof, and distinctions between prima facie/preponderance/whatever evidence come into play here. I’m pretty sure the burden of proof here rests with the plaintiff; in a law court the defense isn’t required to present anything beyond a prima facie case. Jablonski’s letter mentioned the birth certificate. Is simply calling the SOS’s attention to what is, or ought to be, common knowledge sufficient to establish a prima facie case?
I dunno.
And you’ll get no argument from me. In fact it would have been smarter to have submitted the birth certificate a week ago. So yeah, I admit is seems like the whole thing is stuck on stupid.
But then I say, hm, Obama stuck on stupid? Just not possible. So…
[OK, gotta go buy toast and milk. The daughter wants to make French Toast (or is that Liberty Toast? Everyone soldier on!]
Just wondering if an official press release by the Hawaii Director of Health is considered an “official act” that would be subject to FF&C.
Sorry – that should read “public act”.
LOL! 😉
Agreed. But that doesn’t rule out making calculated mistakes that backfire or just make a situation even worse in the process… a calculated move isn’t always the wisest course of action… especially if the contest is really more a political game of chicken than we realize…
I haven’t had time to catch up on the comments so I don’t know if anyone else picked up on this. Did Jablonski buy into the idea that the judge ORDERED President Obama to appear? Read over that part of the letter.
Unless I missed that particular detail, I didn’t read his letter to the SoS as quite saying that as much as arguing that there were enough *other* reasons in his Motion that the judge should have also addressed if he was really being fair, instead of just focusing on the lack of proper citation and ignoring the other arguments that none of this was valid in the first place…
Nonetheless, the Administrative Law Judge has exercised no control whatsoever over this proceeding,and it threatens to degenerate into a pure forum for political posturing to the detriment of the reputation of the State and your Office. Rather than bring this matter to a rapid conclusion, the ALJ has insisted onagreeing to a day of hearings, and on the full participation of the President in his capacity as a candidate…
I figured something strange was up when there was no amended motion on Monday and especially Tuesday.
Insisted on agreeing to the day of hearings … yes.
I still haven’t seen anything anywhere that actually is insisting that the President actually participate. I think you are making assumptions there that still don’t match up with what has actually transpired.
This moves forward, but there is still no motion to try to compel Obama to be there. The lawyer has been advised not to foolishly bypass showing up tomorrow, yes. But Obama… no, he will not be there and I didn’t see anything from either the judge nor the SoS even saying that he should be there at all.
G,
Jablosnki believed that Judge M. agreed to the full participation of President Obama. It is clear as can be:.
Rather than bring this matter to a rapid conclusion, the ALJ has INSISTED ON AGREEING to a day of hearings, AND ON THE FULL PARTICIPATION of the President in his capacity as a candidate…
(not screaming, just emphasizing)
Jablonski believed it by his words… not me.
Agreed.
Ah, thanks for clarifying and clearly pointing that out. I see what you are saying.
Jablonski sure has been perplexing all of us… I’ll just say that.
I think it is safe to say that unlike the previous cases we’ve seen, this one has been nothing but one set of unexpected twists, turns and reactions after another. Tomorrow is definitely must-see TV for me!
All this discussion transpired while I was at a friend’s house and now I have to get to bed… I won’t have access to the internet until 12:30…. ðŸ™
What am I saying…. until 4:30 tomorrow.
ðŸ™
Bummer… that’s like having to tape a sports game and watching at some later time…
It doesn’t really matter. Obama is in Las Vegas as we speak, and tomorrow afternoon he is making an appearance in Las Vegas and then he is flying to Colorado.
One Fogbowzer commented he thought it was a case of Jablonski playing brinkmanship with Malihi.
Jablonski: “The ACJ signed off on the subpoena–”
Malihi: “Hold on here! I never authorized that subpoena.”
Jablonski: “Gotcha!”
There are laws allowing one to be considered “legally” present through counsel. So perhaps of Jablonski attends, that’s all the presence that’s needed. But then the subpoena is not legally enforceable anyway, nor does the ACJ have the authority to compel Obama. Because Taitz is acting pro se, there’s some discussion as to whether they’re even valid.
Also true. Neither Obama nor his legal team is infallible. That they are calculating every move is, IMO, beyond shadow of doubt. They could miscaluate, and for all I know they did so already in overstimating the competence of either Jablonski or the Ga. DNC. Or, for that matter, Malihi. Maybe they never expected him to deny a MtQ on a clearly unenforceable and likely invalid subpoena. Still, I don’t see them not taking that possibility into account.
Doc, your quip wit is masterful.
It’s pearls this man gives! PEARLS!
Based on how all this looks in reading the back & forth documents… the possibility of such a brinksmanship gambit is quite plausible in this scenario… and the very line of illustrative Q&A you just posited would be quite an interesting yet also understandable tactic in that light…
Orly’s eventual epitaph: Let me feenish!
Mike, please tell us your definition of an “anchor baby.”
Thank you.
You’re obviously beyond help but speaking as a French lawyer with over 30 years experience I can tell you with no doubt whatsoever that Mario Apuzzo purposefully distorted and lied about the writings of Emerich de Vattel, which contrary to what he claims, establish that by Vattel’s standards, Obama would indeed be an indigene. (Whether or not that equals a “NBC”is another discussion.)
Mario Apuzzo is not qualified to discuss French (in this case Swiss) Law, what he wrote is the opposite of truth — and he knows it, because it was discussed here and he fled his tail between his legs.
You’re free to argue your case within the context of US or UK law but don’t drag Vattel into it. He doesn’t support your case; he invalidates it.
Dear Mike….
Why the paranoia about you post being ‘censored’? It is Doc’s site, and he can do as he wishes, regardless of what you tell him to do.
Secondly- why all the posting in caps? Why the need for shouting? Its almost midnight here and my family is already asleep.
Finally everything you claim about Presidential eligiblity is wrong. I don’t have the time and energy to refute every shouted claim but let me address a few
What is it with Birthers? Is it because you get all of your information only from Birther blogs? President Obama showed the origina to reporters. The State of Hawaii confirmed it. Unless you have credible evidence that the State of Hawaii is involved in a criminal conspiracy, no there is no need to check the original directly. Any court will accept the certified original copy presented to it. And the American voters already accepted it.
“2) Obama’s parents MUST BOTH be American citizens.We know that Obama’s father was a Kenyan and that he NEVER was an American citizen!!!!!Therefore, THIS SECOND CONDITION ALONE DISQUALIFIES OBAMA TO RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY OF THE USA AND IT ALSO DISQUALIFIES OBAMA TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE USA,”
Says who? Thats not what I grew up learning. Fact is that no one cared about his father’s citizenship in the 2008 election because we all knew it was not relevant. All Americans know you are wrong.
“Obama is a former lawyer. Therefore, he knew perfectly well that he was not entitled to run for the Presidency of the USA but he nevertheless did it DISHONESTLY, FRAUDULENTLY, deceiving purposefully the entire American people.”
Well, a rather qualified current lawyer, Chief Justice Roberts, swore him in as President- are you saying that Chief Justice Roberts swore him in DISHONESTLY, FRAUDULENTLY (how do you type in caps like that- way too much effort)- or perhaps you think that Roberts just isn’t as knowledgable about the Constitution as the fine Birther lawyers?
“Second conclusion:—If you are a rational person, no matter your political affiliation, you surely will be forced to conclude that the facts speak for themselves and that there is no doubt legally that a “natural born citizen” indeed requires that a President of the United States has two parents that were BOTH American citizens at the time of birth”
Apparently you don’t believe that the voters are rational persons, or that Congress has any rational members, or that Chief Justice Roberts is rational.
Personally- I don’t think there is a rational person in the United States who believes what you are peddling. Certainly the voters didnt, certainly Congress didn’t, certain Chief Justice Roberts doesnt.
The Appeals Court of Indiana doesnt.
The Congressional Research Service doesn’t.
Not one rational person does.
Another birther with the “third class citizen” theory.
Mike… listen closely…. there are only two types of US citizens.
1. Naturalized (ie: foreigners who are legally made citizens)
2. Natural born (born in the US or to at least ONE US citizen parent or to US citizen parent(s) abroad.
That’s it. Two. Not three.
To be president, you have to be a #2.
To think otherwise, you’d have to not believe all the “anchor baby” discussions that the GOP has put forth regarding people from Mexico coming to the US to have their babies.
or… you’d have to believe that if a pregnant US citizen gives birth abroad, she now has a child that must follow that other country’s laws and somehow bring back a foreign baby to the US. Ever hear of that happening?
or… you must believe that if a US father-to-be dies before his child is born, his child cannot be a citizen and if that’s so, what country IS he a citizen of?
And think.. when have you ever heard of parents in the US argue whether their own child is a US citizen or one of some other country?
Even in a divorce or custody hearing?
Ever?
If junior is born in the US, he’s a natural born US citizen. Period.
And if you don’t believe this, why on Earth do you think you know law better than all the electors, supreme court, senate, house, FBI, CIA, etc?
Do you really think you are smart enough to even get a job at any of those places?
And why do all those GOP senators and GOP reps argue about all sorts of things every single day, but NEVER accuse Obama of being a fraud?
Wouldn’t they be an instant hero to every right-winger? Wouldn’t support and money come flowing to them in buckets if even just a single one suggested this in the house or senate or on the news?
Why isn’t even Newt or Romney or any GOP’ers running for election today saying Obama isn’t a US citizen?
Now how or why are all these people that are supposedly in the GOP silent, yet fight Obama about everything else when they’d become rich heroes or possibly president themselves?
Does that really make sense to you?
If they’re keeping it to themselves, they’re all wimps.
If they were all bought off or bribed, they’re all corrupt.
If any were threatened, why not go public with such news to protect themselves?
Is that the GOP you support? Corrupt scared wimps?
Think hard why you’ve never questioned where Clinton’s or Carter’s parents were born.
Think hard.
Look at your record collection if it will help you.
You might notice something about all the groups that looks the same.
Take your time.
I know this is hard, but you can do it.
G got the point. Unless his statement was part of some master plan (as was suggested above), Jablosnki believed the judge ordered P. Obama to appear. He was just like the AP!
Jablonski is a lawyer who has a client. Lawyers have to represent their clients to the best of their ability, but they have to also follow the instructions of their client.
Given who is client is in this case, I thin it is extremely naive to think that Jablonski is making major tactical decisions without the express instructions of his client.
I don’t think for a minute that Obama is wasting his time on this personally, but I do think that Jablonski is taking instructions from someone who would be in position to call the shots, most likely with the Obama campaign. There is absolutely no way this wouldn’t occur … something like that letter just doesn’t go out without a client’s express approval and consent.
Sigh.
No, lawyers frame *arguments* in the things that they write, and they frame the facts in whatever way supports their argument.
Jablonski doesn’t “believe” that Malihi “ordered” Obama to appear. He knows damn well that Malihi has no such authority. But he did want to write a letter showing how totally out of control and idiotic Malihi was, in the hopes that the SoS could then be persuaded to take some action.
Lawyers are also very, very careful with the use of language. If Jablonski thought there was an “order” he would have used the word “order”. He used the word “insisted” because an “insist” is not a command. “Insist” is a word that people often use to describe the whining of children.
If Jablonski thought for a minute that there was an enforceable “order” for Obama’s appearance outstanding, the big guns would have been brought in a week ago… or maybe small guns. There is a very simple, easy legal procedure that could have been used to put a stop to everything if there was any possible threat of an “order” for Obama to appear in a state proceeding.
AACK! Apologies. I posted in haste and neglected to trim off that last post. Sincerely sorry.
I understand what you are saying about use of language, but don’t you think all he had to do was refile the motion and show up for the record instead of making his case through a letter? He lost his motion to dismiss and to quash, but he had not lost the case that could have been made professionally. What he said sounded like” the judge wants me to do something, and I’m not gonna!!!” instead of the judge has no authority to require P. Obama to appear and objecting appropriately at the hearings.
All this complicated analysis is futile. It all comes down to one simple fact: Mr. Obama does not have paper documentation that supports the family history he has presented to the American people.
If you do not believe me, wait and see for yourself.
No, we don’t believe you. Neither does the state of HI.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
How did he do that? By telling everyone he has a Kenyan father, although, allegedly, everyone knows that this disqualifies him?
If anything, he told everyone the truth, yet everyone, according to you, did not say a word and instead elected him President?
Remember that Obama never said “it’s enough to be born in Hawaii to be an NBC” (although I’m 100% certain he knows that to be true).
Obama always said “I have a Kenyan father”. So how is that “deceiving and misleading”?
That’s the funny thing with you birthers, you can’t even get elementary logic right within your own parallel universe.
I don’t believe you, and I will go further and say it isn’t really relevant.
As long as he was born in the United States he is eligible.
Unless he has committed fraud, then any errors or ommissions are irrelevant.
I’m sorry, but can you explain to be how being a DWI attorney makes one an expert in Constitutional Law? I did a search of all law journals, and oddly enough, not only did I not find a single scholarly article he published on Constitutional Law, I could not find anything published by him at all. But the real strange thing, I did find a few articles of the subject of Natural Born Citizenship, and presidential eligibility. Guess what I found. “Those born in the United States are uncontroversially natural born citizens.” Those words were written by Garbriel Chin in “Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship,” 107 Mich. L. Rev. First Impressions 1 (2008). Then I’m sure you’ll ask, who is this Gabriel Chin that would dare try to compare themselves with the great DWI attorney, Mario Apuzzo? Perhaps you’d like Wiki’s description, “author, legal scholar, and Professor at the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law.” My…I wonder what else they say about Prof. Chin….let me share:
In 1985 he received a BA from Wesleyan University. In 1988 he received a J.D. from University of Michigan Law School. In 1995 he received a LL.M. from Yale Law School, and was an Editor of the Yale Law & Policy Review. He is an elected member of the American Law Institute. Before becoming a law professor, he practiced with the Legal Aid Society of New York, and Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP. He was named in the “Most Cited Law Professors By Specialty, 2000-2007”, and in the “50 Most Cited Law Professors Who Entered Teaching Since 1992”, surveys by University of Chicago professor Brian Leiter.
Yes, I could see why you would rely on “Constitutional law expert Apuzzo” rather than Prof. Chin.
Going forward from here:
Judge Mahili rules against the President.
SoS removes President’s name from ballot
President appeals to Georgia Superior Court
Who defends for the SoS – Georgia AG office? Are bither lawyers cut out of the mix?
I am not entirely sure about the law in Georgia, but depends on how Georgia law treats the SoS decision. If it is considered the same as an agency decision, they appeal to the Georgia appeals court (general appeal not State Supreme Court). If they don’t treat it as a full on agency appeal, in theory, they may sue in the Georgia trial courts to get an order forcing the SoS to place President Obama’s name on the ballot. Thirdly, they can always file suit in the Federal Courts based on Georgia violating Federal law, and the Constitution.
And yes, the birthers are out of the mix. The suit is between the government of Georgia, and Obama.
And is the eligibility issue (BCs and two parents) also out of the mix. Would it all hinge on whether the SoS has the statutory right to determine eligiblity or are his duties just ministerial
The eligibility issue could, in theory, come up. I haven’t done the legal research, but as we saw in Virginia, states can place regulations on who appears on a ballot (Gingirch didn’t get his signatures on time, so he was off in VA). It seems entirely plausible to me, that a court could conclude that Georgia can require proof of eligibility as a precondition to getting on the ballot. So that would be the first question. Then, depending on whether the SoS articulates a reaons why President Obama would be kept form the ballot, if he goes full birther, and says the President is not eligible, and the appeals courts finds that the state has the right to consider eligibility for ballot status, then the birther issues would enter the question, and the Georgia AG would have to make the birther arguments.
That would be fun to watch.
Thanks.
DNC sues Georgia to force them to put Obama on Ballot NO QUESTIONS ASKED AND NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE? In you dreams. Malilhi wants to SEE THE BC.
I picked this up from BeforeItsNews:
http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1679/612/Exclusive_Breaking_News_…judge_Will_Enter_Default_Judgment_Against_Obama….html
In the Comments:
A bigger issue now stands before the elected leaders of Georgia and all of the USA as a nation. Since Obama is deemed not qualified as a candidate for the 2012 election and his name will not appear on the ballot in Georgia, it also means if the evidence which was presented at the hearing today were known in 2008, he would not have been qualified on that ballot either. In which case, all of the laws, executive orders, cabinet positions, supreme court judges, federal judges, and all business which Barack Hussein Obama is responsible for are null and void in the state of Georgia, and the USA too?
—-
I suspect it’s Doc writing anonymously and saying Obama’ll now be cancelled and all his work annulled and the world saved. That’s what he usually says;
[When I write, I write as Dr. Conspiracy or under my real name. Doc]
No, it doesn’t mean that at all! A default judgment means, you lose because you didn’t show up. It says nothing about evidence. Birthers are claiming that the judge told attorneys of the default judgement BEFORE the hearing.
I do not believe you.
Any decision Georgia makes applies only to Georgia and is not binding on any other state or the federal government. Obama did not win Georgia in 2008, so had he not appeared on the ballot there, he would still be President. He could end up off the ballot in Georgia in 2012 and still be re-elected.
Once Malihi sends his recommendation to the SoS, it doesn’t matter what he wants. He’ll be out of the equation.
Yeah, maybe, but he’s looking for gold coins.
Well, yes, he is very generous with pearls, but all out of gold coins!
Here is an interesting take I saw from a lawyer over at The Fogbow that posts as” A Legal Lohengrin”. Having read through a number of (his/her) posts, this person has really impressed me as someone who has a very strong handle on the legal options here:
I don’t know what the true political motive of the Judge or SoS is here…and what their history with Jablonski is. There certainly seems to be something of that at play… at least some sort of pissing contest going on.
But regardless, it strikes me as very, very risky for either the Judge or the SoS to look at the evidence the Birthers have give them and come up with any excuse to remove Obama from the ballot based on it. Regardless of whether they use Jablonski’s non-attendance as some sort of excuse to rule against the defense…
No matter what, to argue removal of Obama with the evidence entered by the plaintiffs would seem to be long-term political (and possibly career) suicide… just a short-term political stunt with a near guarantee of backfiring spectacularly in the long-run…
No, no, no. You’re assuming “elementary logic” plays by the same rules in Birferstan. In *this* universe logic is defined via things like consistency, validity and propositional calculus. In Birferstan, “truth” is defined as “anything detrimental to Obama”.
I’m sure Orly will do her best to get herself attached somehow.
Geir Smith: DNC sues Georgia to force them to put Obama on Ballot NO QUESTIONS ASKED AND NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE? In you dreams. Malilhi wants to SEE THE BC.
He’s already got it, courtesy of you birhers yourselves. Or did you forget Hatfield and von Irion themselves entered it into the record, complete with stipulation of validity?
*I* believe *you*, Doc. Always.
BTW, you looked good on the video feed last, even if the feed itself was lousy 🙂
I would question your use of “long-term” in this context, unless by “long-term” you mean “sudden death” 🙂
*Whew* I’ve spent most of the day trying to catch up on the Fogbow thread. Over here in my neighborhood it was already bedtime when the hearing started, so by the time I’d woken up next morning, the Fogbow thread had alredy grown by thirty pages. I’ve only had a chance to pop back here because FB just went offline for backups.
We are witnessing the end-days of the obamugabe cover-up. This is sooooo f’ing good!!! And now, as the legal processes that you lectured on endlessly actually do lead to truth and justice, you can’t stand it!! What fun!!!
Thank you all for entertaining us birthers with your rationalizing BS for the last year or two…it was so fun to marvel at!!
See ya in court!! hahahaha
Any . . . day . . . now.
Any…day….now….we’ll ….see…the….real….paper….HI….b.c………
Indeed they do. 😉
Indeed it is. 😀
Anytime, pard. You keep flingin’, we’ll keep bringin’.
Actually, it’s been over three years, but birthers have never been very good at counting. Or spelling. Or rules of evidence. Or constitutional law. Or just about anything. Except, of course, for failure. You’ve been remarkably good at that. And for that, we thank you.
Will LITS make a committment to return here by , say, mid February to comment on the final outcome of this “case”?
It’s unfortunate that every time the birthers imagine they’ve scored a huge victory we get a lot of drive-bys like LITS crowing about their “victory”, and dancing the happy dance… but once the dust settles and they , once again, have completely failed, we never see them come back to admit how wrong they were. Just once I’d like to see a birther with enough balls to actually say, “Gee guys, I was wrong. Sorry”.
But then if they had balls (or ovaries), they wouldn’t be birthers in the first place.
So what about it LITS, will you commit, win or lose, to coming back here and answering for the results?
It’ll only be over when the fat lady sings or we see a real b.c. – whichever comes first.
And Daniel, I’m saving your email because I’m going to hold you to the same standard. Let’s see if you and Doc Conspiracy are real men when this is over and you can say ‘I was wrong’.
Daniel, instead of keeping Sandman waiting, I suggest coming by everyday to post the birther scorecard*, just to let him know you’re still waiting for a chance to say they were right? 😉
* I would say, come by everyday and post, “Still WINNING!”, but that’d be rude.
LineInatheSand has left a large number of short, taunting and insulting remarks. I think it’s important to let the birthers gloat given recent events. However I think a few are enough to give the flavor and I’m not approving most of the pure insult ones.
LITS : Obama already showed the press the original certified paper birth certificate. NBC News Savannah Guthrie says she felt the raised seal. You lie when you say we haven’t seen it.
A paid-off NBC shill is hardly a bona fide document examiner. Let me sell you some property in Florida.
[This is comment is an example of what’s wrong with the birther movement. When confronted with inconvenience evidence against what they are saying (in this case notable journalist Savannah Guthrie’s comment about seeing the paper long form and having felt the raised seal contradicting a claim that no one has seen the paper form), they make up a fiction (“paid off”) to shield them from having to face the evidence and they move the goal posts from seen it to a document examiner examined it. Whether it’s newspaper announcements or official statements from Hawaii, they close their eyes, and put their fingers in their ears, and say “nananananna I’m not listening.” It is irresponsible statements from LineInTheSand that prompted me to put him in moderation before, and confirm that it was a good move now.
This is how confirmation bias works, and now conspiracy theorists think. It is the reason that no matter what Obama releases, the Birthers won’t be satisfied. Doc.
That’s asinine.
You’ll go to your grave never convinced of the President’s natural born citizenship status.
You can admit that, right?
Who is we?
Will this singing fat lady of yours be “entered into the evidence” too?
Taken with NBC reporter Savannah Guthrie’s camera phone:
http://lockerz.com/s/96540721
http://lockerz.com/s/96540937
Your turn.
Back to the caption for this photo:
http://lockerz.com/s/96540721
Orly has tried that in the past with various motions to intervene (litigation contesting health care reform, challenging the drilling moratoreum, etc.). She got the smack down every time, and would in the future.
Where have I heard that before….hmmmmm…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPo-HfbGgY
That is so 3 years and 6 months ago. I detect a severe imagination deficiency in this one.
Please do.
Kinda reminds me of the doomsayers saying the world will end….any day now. (Dec 21, 2012).
I will wake up on Dec. 22 in the morning and piss in the toilet, just like every other morning.
A fine idea- I’d love to see a collection of them in a post after the SoS rules Obama can be on the Georgia primary ballot, and see if any come back and apologize. (or even come back and call the Georgia SoS and Courts traitors)
Doc, you’ve never wanted to look at the public’s sentiment. There ‘s a story now about kids shooting a teeshirt with bullets.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/technology/internet/video-police-officer-posts-picture-bullet-ridden-obama-t-shirt-facebook?utm_source=OV+Newsletter+List+2&utm_campaign=d664b7bb49-OV_Newsletter_January_271_27_2012&utm_medium=email
Nathan, he wants the original PAPER.
If Obama loses GA to Judge Malihi then twenty states will follow shortly seeing they have good time till March to slam him on this.
SOS Kemp will follow Malihi. He’s also GOP. I don’t see why you don’t give this up once and for all. Relax, renounce.
No, default means you’re going with the Plaintiffs and that if Obama didn’t show it meant that Malihi was saying BEFORE the hearing that Obama had made a legal mistake (by not showing).
U don’t really get anything I say basically right?
Right.
You’re not making any sense.
By their own law, Georgia has no abillity to keep anyone designated by the Democratic or Republican parties off any presidential ballot. The law is absolutely clear. And let me add, the national party conventions are actually free to ignore all the primaries and nominate anyone they want. For example, many Republicans who don’t like either Mitt or Newt have been discussing the possibility of drafting someone else at the convention. It’s unlikely, but not impossible. And whoever that is would be on the general election ballot.
Does that mean bin Laden is still alive?
And you know this because? Are you a mind reader? Oh yeah…your just making stuff up like birthers tend to do.
Are you saying that Kemp will decide according to his party affiliation? Silly me, I thought the birthers were looking for things like the truth.
Let see, you are stating that one political party may decide who can run for the nomination in the other party. How very Soviet Union of you.
Well, at their very core birthers are anti-democratic. They delight at the thought of preventing people from voting for the candidate of their choice and would squeal with glee if they could overturn a free-and-fair election, thwarting the will of the people.
Yet they claim it is Obama who threatens freedom and the Constitution- strange, huh?
Young men …. like to shoot stuff …. with guns.
….. and …. ?
Well said, all of you!
Doc’s on a radical agenda. Reality is not part of that. Look at Bill Ayers he was so shameful he had to hide for twenty years living on a pier in Sausalito.
Is this weird or what, you’re yelling I’m a Soviet because Brian Kemp will smackdown Obama out of GA’s ballots? ROFTLMAO
Are Patricia Arquette (Medium) who can influence people during her dreams? And rewrite time? WAKE UP!!!!!! The hearings was last Thursday and we’re having the ruling this next Wednesday and Obama’s already failed by no-show.
This is about GA territory, they rule the land. Period. Capice?
What does this matter. Is Obama any of your business. It’s like you’re representing the guy. Leave this alone.
We the People elected him so it’s our duty to control his work. He’s not scot free or independant. He owes us until he leaves the WHite House then he can do whatever he wants to do. He can hold up a bank AFTER he’s out, that’s his problem/ Until he’s left he’s accountable to us 24 24 365.
Authoritative RIghtSideOfLife website says Obama committted a mistake by no-showing. RSOL don’t mess around. This looks over for Obama. no website is as strict as ROSL.
Generally a default means the judge goes with the plaintiff. Obama has to ask for a new hearing to debunk them now. LOL
If that’s the case, be prepared to be hit with a hefty retroactive tax bill, because it means that the Bush tax cuts have expired and we’re back to the Clinton era tax rates.
Are you happy Obama’s headed for sentencing for high treason (Death Sentence in Virginia.) Supreme Court must rule on this. We’re not empowered to rule on this. We can just quote the law which is that High Treason begets the highest penalty in the book. Obama is not royalty. Nor is saul Alinsky. He’s just an ordinary little guy like us. We’re equals. Democratically equal. Killing people like Bill Ayers did is NOT THE RIGHT WAY. “Respect all who are equals to you”….Obama must learn his lesson, which that is.
Then why don’t you wait and find out how they rule on this. If it doesn’t go in your favor, are you going to accept the ruling, or are you going to have a tantrum?
End of the world ROFLMAO! NOT!
The judge will rule on Wednesday. NOW THAT’S THE END OF TE WORLD!
I’m sorry, I thought you claimed to be some French religious guy. So, why does our country and our elections matter to you at all? Doesn’t sound like you can vote here anyways.
Yeah…because they’ve been wrong about so many of the other Birther lawsuit outcomes before this…so that makes them an “authority” on anything….yeah….right…. *rolls eyes*
FIFY
Radical agenda?
Like your posts on your Facebook page Geir Smith is the Messiah:
Geir Smith is The Messiah
Obama can’t stay alive
Like · · Share · June 14, 2011 at 11:33am
Geir Smith is The Messiah
The demons of Satan are running free, panicked by my declaring I’m the Messiah. The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have come; which are1. WAR – the Muslims from 15-18 when they attacked me, 2. PESTILENCY when the gays at 15-18 attacked me – 3. FAMINE when the Catholics at 15-18 attacked me and now 4. DEATH is when everybody realizes that I’m the Messiah and Obama is the Antichrist revealed by the Mark of …
Like · · Share · June 14, 2011 at 4:11am
Geir Smith is The Messiah
Si vous voulez aller en enfer suivez les faux christs et faux prophètes qui disent qu’il savent quelle est la voie; je suis la voie et personne d’autre dans le monde ne sauvera de l’antéchrist. Se suis le seul qui lui fasse face. Le seul courageux du monde, c’est moi.
(translated: If you want to go to hell follow the false Christs and false prophets who say they know what is the way, I am the way and no one else in the world will not save the antichrist. I’m the only one which is facing. The only brave one of the world is me.)
Like · · Share · June 13, 2011 at 2:39pm
(source: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Geir-Smith-is-The-Messiah/219491228071873)
I am waiting. But we’ve already got all the sounds of defeat for Obama. Pro websites like RSOL are adamant this stinks for Obama.
You guys remind of diehards like Hitler in the bunker in “The Downfall”. He thought he could go out and trounce the world from inside his fortress with only a couple of rifles left. Do you guys actually look at the hordes of lynching mobs outside your windows or are you like Marie Antoinette playing sheep farmer in the castle?
Haven’t you been hiding in France since you were seven years old?
French yes. religous Buddhist following deity kalachakra. Yes. Born in the USA. I’m an ex-pat Pat.
That’s the lowest blow I’ve seen, below the belt. You know Doc deletes any time the word Tibet is mentionned so you’re desperate because Obama’s being judged uneligible on Wednesday so you’re going for the jugular.
Yes, and I’m not ashamed of it. why do you say hiding? Are you aware of something I don’t know?
I like French cooking and I was never told? ROFTLMAO! Don’t you ever make yoruself laugh with your mindless ugly posting?
If ever you need a job know McDonald’s will always take as as Ronald the Clown.
ROSL has always predicted the judges’ reactions correctly.
They went baliistic last week when Malihi’s subpoena was answered by Jablonski’s refusal to show.
They always predicted each Birther case’s result correctly.
They’re predicting obama’s dead in the water now.
Doc’s going to delete this so I might as well say it.
I’ve written my biography in my cult-page. It explains why I’m the reluctant messenger of the Apocalypse aka the messiah.
You’re not moderated so just repost it here now so people can see my answer to the talk about me being the messiah and I said the Supreme Court must hand down the heaviest penalty.
This is my Cult page look in the documents for my bio: http://www.facebook.com/groups/287599534629294/
Right that wouldn’t be right. ROFTLMAO
You guys astound me. You prefer having AL Capone (or whatever Obama’s real name is) ruling than paying taxes.
Are you crazy?
Obama’s bankrupted us but that’s OK.
By annulling all his signed laws the debt will be erased.
We’ll force the democrats to pay back the debt.
All republicans will be exempted from the debt Obama ran up.
But it’ll not be so much because we’ll anull all his three years’ work.
If Obama said the sun rises in the east, ROSL would say it rises in the west. So what?
You didn’t answer my question. If Obama were declared ineligble, would bin Laden come back to life? Simple yes or no, pal…
First of all, “Obama can’t stay alive” is about High Treason charges if Obama never produces his birth certificate and he’s made uneligible, he’ll thus be guilty of high treason and stealing the nuclear codes of the Commander in Chief. Thus the Supreme Court will be faced with handing down a death penalty for the crimes he’s thus carried out. Everything Obama’s done will be criminal in that case. We’ll see whetherthe judge decides on Wednesday Obama’s ineligible. “Obama can’t stay alive” means Obama would face a possible Supreme Court death sentence.
I’m the messiah means, 1. I’m the only one on Internet who’s revealing the lottery draw of 666 which I had learnt about from a Newsweek article. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/11/15/is-obama-the-antichrist.html 2. I’m a specialist and the world authority on Kalachakra but got sucked into the fight against Obama because he’s revealed to be the same as the demon announced in the end times of our own Kalachakra teaching.
People will fight this it’s predicted in the Bible.
If he’s declared ineligible it’ll be the day of Last Judgment.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2839296/posts People are saying that Obama should be punished and kids are speaking out in unfortunate ways.
Huh? We the people elect Congress who controls some of his work (and he controls some of Congress’s work). If we don’t like his work, we can ask (i.e. vote) that the the Electors from our States (i,e. Electoral College) vote for somebody else. If we feel the Congress is not controlling him (i.e. not providing a proper check), we can elect a new one.
What business is it of Republicans (i.e. most of the plaintiffs and the SOS) to challenge who the Democrats may vote for in their primary or nominate as their candidate? Not only that, but some of the plaintiffs were not even citizens of Georgia. There would be at least a slight bit more argument in the general election.
Yet, the birthers argue that they may determine who can run despite what the various states, courts and people have determined as what qualifies as eligible. Are They trying to become our Guardian Council? How very Iran of them.
Geir wouldn’t understand that. He’s not even an American.
RSOL is just another blog. It’s better than a lot of them, but Phil is just a blogger like me.
I’ve been saying Obama’s not American all along so don’t troll me saying I don’t know it.
Except that Phil is completely blinded by his preconceived biases… otherwise seems to be a decent guy.
Beside the point seeing Obama’s toast anyways. Everything’s obsolete now. This is the Apocalypse. Nice knowing you bye bye.
Thank you!
Doc, I am impressed that you will even let the obviously mentally-ill, self-proclaimed messiah comment here. I don’t think I would be as patient as you are.
But his Facebook-posted words like:
“Geir Smith is The Messiah
Obama can’t stay alive”
come awfully close to what may interest the Secret Service.
That is just about right. And when is the day of Last Judgment due again?
And I forgot to add: I wasn’t aware that Buddism had the concept of a Last Judgement, just cycles endlessly repeating over seventyeleven bazillion years.
Phil was the first Birther I interviewed on RC Radio. Phil was also one of the first Birthers to understand how toxic Orly Taitz was to their movement although he was too polite to call her an idiot. He just says she is “energetic”. He is wrong on most other things but seems like a decent person. I owe him a debt of gratitude because it was on his blog that I found links in comments to Obama Conspiracy Theories and to the Politijab forum.
He clearly is deranged.
Consider the 666 lottery ticket. Assuming that the Pick 3 combinations range from 000 to 999, it means that on average 666 will be the winning number once every 999 days. However, Illinois holds a Pick 3 twice daily, meaning that 666 is expected to the the winning number once every 499 days. Not exactly a million-to-one proposition.
It gets better. On his Facebook page, he says that 666 was the winning number on the day of Obama’s election. But election day was November 4 and 666 was the winning number on November 5. He even posted photos showing that the number was picked on the day after election day.
Is he really gone? Probably not … they always come back … he’s a hoot!
Where to begin?
Doc is clearly unaware of any need to hide. He makes appearances in public places, and occasionally posts his real-time location right on the Google-able interwebs for any enemies to find.
I did spend the day landscaping … it seems the manual labor scared the lynch mobs away? Lazy bastards.
This repeated claim continues to crack me up! You are “revealing” on the internet, a claim published by national periodical in print and digital form? LOL! You believe you are the only person who reads Newsweek ? This is less a “revealing”, more a “pointless, serial rehashing”.
Crippling illiteracy is a prerequisite of birtherism.
Ummm….it seems you know as little about what the Supreme Court does as anything else.
The Supreme Court is not a criminal court that hands out penalties. It’s an appelate court that reviews the decisions of lower courts.
…
I’m a scholar.
…
[Sorry I thought you were a gonner. I locked the door when you said you had left. You’re not welcome back. It’s not your scholarship or the lack of; it’s your attitude which smells of troll. Doc.]