The occasional open thread: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846264338327950 edition

Posted on August 24, 2012 by Dr. Conspiracy

Post your Obama conspiracy comments here not related to the other current articles. Comments will close after two weeks.

About Dr. Conspiracy

I'm not a real doctor, but I have a master's degree.
This entry was posted in Open Mike and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

474 Responses to The occasional open thread: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846264338327950 edition

  1. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:02 am  (Quote)

    And to open, the official soundtrack for this edition.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3TsRNm7SKE

  2. Sudoku says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    Just looking at a HuffPo report on two University of Colorado political science professors, with an electoral college model, are predicting a Romney win. They say they have correctly predicted the winner since 1980.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/university-of-colorado-pr_n_1822933.html

  3. John Reilly says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:59 am  (Quote)

    Sorry, Sudoku, that is not what the CU study showed. They took data today and looked at the past. They have not been doing this since 1980. Much as I would would like to believe the study predicts Romney, anyone can find some old data points which will predict something, like the Cubs winning the series. OK, there are no data points for that, but for anything else there are.

  4. Benji Franklin says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:59 am  (Quote)

    Hey, Doc!

    If one of the Constitutional requirements for Presidential eligibility, was publishing the value of pi to 32 decimal places, and Obama published the value you specfied here, (3.14159265358979323846264338327950) Corsi would claim that the fifth “3”, is a forgery, making Obama “ineligible.”

  5. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:04 am  (Quote)

    Are they saying they put this model together like 33 years ago? It’s one thing to predict the future. it’s a totally different, and unremarkable thing, to fit a model to old data.

    Sudoku: Just looking at a HuffPo report on two University of Colorado political science professors, with an electoral college model, are predicting a Romney win. They say they have correctly predicted the winner since 1980.

  6. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:10 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku: Just looking at a HuffPo report on two University of Colorado political science professors, with an electoral college model, are predicting a Romney win. They say they have correctly predicted the winner since 1980.

    Which is why no one heard of them until now. Intrade has Obama at 57%. Intrade was wrong about Sharron Angle, Tancredo and the Supremes’ health care decision.

    They have been correct on everything else. 538 has Obama at 69%. Silver’s accuracy is 95%.

    Those two profs do not take Akin into account. Akin is the kiss of death.

  7. Dave B. says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:30 am  (Quote)

    But is he the “legitimate” kiss of death?

    misha:

    Those two profs do not take Akin into account. Akin is the kiss of death.

  8. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:48 am  (Quote)

    Dave B.: But is he the “legitimate” kiss of death?

    Only if someone enjoys it.

  9. Keith says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:21 am  (Quote)

    This seems like an appropriate spot to publish my forecast:

    The End of Days will begin at 9:26 on the morning of March 14, 2015. But only in America. Start stocking up on pie now.

    It also let me try out a new plugin I just installed in FireFox to simplify standard markup in my posts: Easy Markup. Much better, I’m pleased with it.

  11. Sudoku says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:44 am  (Quote)

    Sorry for the false alarm. I didn’t read the article that way, so I looked at it again and then at a couple similar articles from CO. They all say the professors’ model had correctly “predicted” or “forecast” election outcomes since 1980. They are not very well written and none said when the model was developed, so I looked up the professors. Unless they were prodigies, they are not old enough to have developed something that would have been up running by 1980.

    A little more searching and I found a pdf for their report. I didn’t read it all, but I don’t see any of their references listed that date prior to 1981. Realizing that, I take issue with this sentence:

    “Their model correctly predicted all elections since 1980, including two years when independent candidates ran strongly, 1980 and 1992. It also correctly predicted the outcome in 2000, when Al Gore received the most popular vote but George W. Bush won the election.”
    http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/08/22/analysis-election-factors-points-romney-win-university-colorado-study-says

    To be accurate, shouldn’t it say something more along the lines of when the data from 1980, etc., was plugged into their shiny, brand spanking new model, it was able to come up with who won?

    Dr. Conspiracy: Are they saying they put this model together like 33 years ago? It’s one thing to predict the future. it’s a totally different, and unremarkable thing, to fit a model to old data.

    John Reilly: Sorry, Sudoku, that is not what the CU study showed. They took data today and looked at the past.

  13. foreigner says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:09 am  (Quote)

    sudoku, do you have a link to the paper ?
    I couldn’t easily find it – is it public ?

  14. Sudoku says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:12 am  (Quote)

    Here it is:

    http://polisci.colorado.edu/images/stories/pdfs/berrybickers2012forecast.pdf

    foreigner:
    sudoku, do you have a link to the paper ?
    I couldn’t easily find it – is it public ?

  15. Paper says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:24 am  (Quote)

    Good catch, Benji! I always had questions about that fifth “3.” After all, why isn’t it fourth or sixth? Pretty strange if you ask me.

    Benji Franklin:
    Hey, Doc!

    If one of the Constitutional requirements for Presidential eligibility, was publishing the value of pi to 32 decimal places, and Obama published the value you specfied here, (3.14159265358979323846264338327950) Corsi would claim that the fifth “3″, is a forgery, making Obama “ineligible.”

  16. Keith says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:56 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku: To be accurate, shouldn’t it say something more along the lines of when the data from 1980, etc., was plugged into their shiny, brand spanking new model, it was able to come up with who won?

    Yes.

    I only got to the U of Colo press release which was the source for the various articles on HuffPo etc. The press reports accurately describe the information in the press release which is clearly misleading.

    I didn’t get any deeper, their paper has apparently not yet been published.

  17. Sudoku says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:01 am  (Quote)

    I don’t know if it is published, but I was able to find a pdf online. Misleading accurately describes the reports.

    http://polisci.colorado.edu/images/stories/pdfs/berrybickers2012forecast.pdf

    Keith: I didn’t get any deeper, their paper has apparently not yet been published.

  18. foreigner says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:24 am  (Quote)

    thanks. I found:
    The study will be published this month in PS: Political Science & Politics
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120822150220.htm
    http://www.apsanet.org/
    ———————————————–
    so, how likely will Romney win in their opinion ?
    are they ignoring entirely the campaign,
    the polls – not important ?
    Perry gaffe, Cain-scandal, money raised, birth certificates,
    nobel prizes,IQ,

    I haven’t figured this out yet

    They unscientifically quote Yogi Berra…

  19. foreigner says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:52 am  (Quote)

    77%(!) Romney majority of ballots , page 13
    >Of course that (is not their probability that Romney will win)
    why ?
    and why don’t they give the latter

  20. The Magic M says:
    August 24, 2012 at 5:42 am  (Quote)

    So birthers’ hopes are just 3.141592653 in the sky?

    And the Bible agrees:
    http://www.purplemath.com/modules/bibleval.htm

  21. Majority Will says:
    August 24, 2012 at 7:01 am  (Quote)

    A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are all given identical
    rubber balls and told to find the volume. They are given anything they
    want to measure it and have all the time they need.

    The mathematician pulls out a measuring tape and records the circumference. He then
    divides by two times pi to get the radius, cubes that, multiplies by pi
    again, and then multiplies by four-thirds and thereby calculates the
    volume.

    The physicist gets a bucket of water, places 1.00000 gallons of
    water in the bucket, drops in the ball, and measures the displacement
    to six significant figures.

    And the engineer? He writes down the serial
    number of the ball, and looks it up.

  22. Majority Will says:
    August 24, 2012 at 7:08 am  (Quote)

    Paper:
    Good catch, Benji!I always had questions about that fifth “3.” After all, why isn’t it fourth or sixth? Pretty strange if you ask me.

    And why do all of the nines have smiley faces?

  23. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:04 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku:

    Kenneth Bickers received his BA in 1981

  24. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:46 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: F*ck the separation of Church and State: They’re not even pretending anymore, are they?

    Huckabee: And that’s what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards –
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/few-words-from-mike-huckabee.html

    Mitt Romney: Church State Separation Taken Too Far By Some – Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney believes that “some” Americans have taken the separation of church and state too far, “well beyond its original meaning.”

    Romney said the Founders didn’t intend for “the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation ‘Under God, ‘and in God, we do indeed trust.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/mitt-romney-separation-church-state_n_1817764.html

  25. G says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:46 am  (Quote)

    No, they are not.

    There was a time when religious leaders and the military honored their values and committments to stay out of taking sides in partisan issues.

    The right has stopped respecting that, almost completely. That is because they don’t really respect the benefits and protections that a secular government has given them and really seek to replace our Constitution with their own particular brand of theocracy.

    Shame on the Pope for allowing the Bishops to do this. The current Pope is extremely conservative and keeps seeming to show a partisan agenda and desire to interfere in internal American affairs. As someone of Roman Catholic heritage, I’m extremely ashamed by the poor ethical leadership of The Church.

    Lupin: F*ck the separation of Church and State:http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/cardinal-timothy-dolans-gop-convention-blessing-prompts-debate/2012/08/23/6d69c280-ed65-11e1-866f-60a00f604425_story.htmlThey’re not even pretending anymore, are they?

  26. Lupin says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:56 am  (Quote)

    G: Shame on the Pope for allowing the Bishops to do this. The current Pope is extremely conservative and keeps seeming to show a partisan agenda and desire to interfere in internal American affairs. As someone of Roman Catholic heritage, I’m extremely ashamed by the poor ethical leadership of The Church.

    I couldn’t agree more.

    The idea that a Cardinal of the RC church would have de facto endorsed Sarkozy over Hollande in our last Presidential election is (a) so inconceivable it defies belief, (b) would be followed by some very strong threats from our political body, and (c) would probably be counterproductive anyway.

    I know (b) to be true, because recently a French Cardinal issued some statements in the form of public prayers for France (another tradition, we’re still the “Church’s eldest daughter”) against the possible introduction of civil gay marriage in France, and immediately, many prominent political figures criticized it as “attack against French laicity” and an “intolerable intrusion by religion into the political discourse.”

    There are plenty of historical reasons why France keeps its Church(es) under a tight leash.

  27. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:01 am  (Quote)

    That reminds me of the story where a college class is assigned the task of measuring the height of the physics building using a barometer. One student used the difference in air pressure between the base and the top of the building. Another used the shadow cast by the barometer in proportion to the shadow of the building. The engineering student went to the campus planning office and said, “If you tell me how tall the physics building is, I’ll give you this neat barometer.”

    Majority Will: And the engineer? He writes down the serial
    number of the ball, and looks it up.

  28. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:15 am  (Quote)

    LW:
    And to open, the official soundtrack for this edition.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3TsRNm7SKE

    Nay! This should be the soundtrack! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qvm6a2cd6w

  29. Majority Will says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:28 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: The engineering student went to the campus planning office and said, “If you tell me how tall the physics building is, I’ll give you this neat barometer.”

    😀

  30. Majority Will says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:33 am  (Quote)

    G:
    No, they are not.

    There was a time when religious leaders and the military honored their values and committments to stay out of taking sides in partisan issues.

    The right has stopped respecting that, almost completely.That is because they don’t really respect the benefits and protections that a secular government has given them and really seek to replace our Constitution with their own particular brand of theocracy.

    Shame on the Pope for allowing the Bishops to do this.The current Pope is extremely conservative and keeps seeming to show a partisan agenda and desire to interfere in internal American affairs.As someone of Roman Catholic heritage, I’m extremely ashamed by the poor ethical leadership of The Church.

    Aren’t Mormons obligated to follow the orders of the president of the Mormon Church without question?

  31. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:36 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Aren’t Mormons obligated to follow the orders of the president of the Mormon Church without question?

    Yes, like the time Romney went to a woman in the hospital and forbade her to have an abortion.

  32. bgansel9 says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:51 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: They’re not even pretending anymore, are they?

    It’s no different than Rick Warren, is it? A prayer doesn’t bother me. It’s when a man of “the cloth” makes an actual speech that I get upset.

  33. bgansel9 says:
    August 24, 2012 at 10:16 am  (Quote)

    So, this Colorado team is going by state level economic indicators, yet:

    1. the state economics are being produced by the legislators of each state, which in heavily Republican states are using austerity measures placed by Republican legislation
    and
    2. nobody is talking about the economy, because the Tea Party is too busy trying to legislate social issues (abortion, birth control, gay marriage…)

    Are these two people serious?

    I think they are using a model that doesn’t account for crazy far right politics and propaganda campaigns of lies which many of us see right through.

    Mitt Romney refuses to release tax returns, puts out orders to not discuss the abortion stance in the bills Akin and Ryan signed (which, the position is also aligned with the party platform) and he is a cold speaker whom nobody believes has any charisma…

    compared to a charismatic incumbent who fills seats at his events and is trying to talk about the economy at his political events meanwhile Mitt just tells a bunch of lies about him.

    Now Mitt has even stopped talking about Medicare because he knows it’s a dangerous subject for him when he and Ryan know they plan to completely gut the program (and we know it too!)

    Really? A Romney win? I’ll believe it when I see it.

  34. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:09 am  (Quote)

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Nay! This should be the soundtrack! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qvm6a2cd6w

    Ay, you poke a recent sore spot.

    The family went to the moom pitcher theAYter last week, and there was a poster in the box office advertising a Rifftrax live simulcast thingy of Manos: Hands of Fate …taking place on the day before. Argh.

    (We’d previously gone to a similar event for Plan 9, which besides being hilarious on its own, also introduced us to Jonathan Coulton, whom we’d somehow managed to miss knowing about up until then. So that was an excellent day’s outing.)

  35. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:12 am  (Quote)

    birther alert:

    a transcript of chris matthews?

    “But didn’t Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or simply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background?” – Chris Matthews on MSNBC – 12/18/2007

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/08/birther-chris-matthews-attacks-birther.html

  36. bgansel9 says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:38 am  (Quote)

    donna: Chris Matthews on MSNBC – 12/18/2007

    Living in the past, they can’t stand the fact that the 2008 election is over and Hilary/Bill and Barack are all on the same side again.

  37. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:38 am  (Quote)

    donna:
    birther alert:

    a transcript of chris matthews?

    “But didn’t Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or simply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background?” – Chris Matthews on MSNBC – 12/18/2007

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/08/birther-chris-matthews-attacks-birther.html

    2007? Yes, he certainly said that back then, and that certainly proves… something?

    What are these guys on about?

    Oh, the video on that page is filled with snarky little overlays like “Matthews knows that Hawaiian BCs prove nothing, since anyone can get one.”

  38. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:46 am  (Quote)

    they are digging deep into the concocted conspiracy chamber for “new” material

    regurgitate, rinse & repeat

  39. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    As long as we’re going retro, the back-and-forth that inspired Matthews to say this is actually kind of interesting. November 2007:

    Mrs. Clinton … tweaked Mr. Obama for saying on Monday that living overseas as a child had increased his experience in foreign relations.

    Mrs. Clinton, who this week in Iowa has been making an issue of Mr. Obama’s experience, said the next president would face two wars and fraying alliances. She said she had traveled broadly and had “met with countless world leaders” and knew many of them personally.

    “Now voters will judge whether living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges that the next president will face,” Mrs. Clinton said. “I think we need a president with more experience than that.”

    That was apparently a response to Mr. Obama’s citing his years in Indonesia as a child as contributing to his knowledge “of how ordinary people in these other countries live.”

    “I sit on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,” he said. “So I have frequent interaction with world leaders who come to visit here, and I take trips on various fact-finding missions, whether it’s to Iraq or Russia or Africa. But you know, probably, the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact that I spent four years living overseas when I was a child in Southeast Asia.”

  40. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:24 pm  (Quote)

    Having studied Mormons quite a bit in the past, I think the fair answer is “no.” The First Presidency (three men) when confirmed by the Quorum of Twelve can speak inerrantly about Church doctrine, but it would be irregular for the First Presidency to pronounce on a matter of government. On the other hand, it would be proper Mormon for Mitt Romney to believe that he personally received a revelation from God for the country (if he is President) and act upon it. We really know very little about Romney the man. He hasn’t written a revealing autobiography like Obama’s.

    See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

    Majority Will: Aren’t Mormons obligated to follow the orders of the president of the Mormon Church without question?

  41. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm  (Quote)

    Keith: It also let me try out a new plugin I just installed in FireFox to simplify standard markup in my posts: Easy Markup.

    Not available for Macs. 🙁

  42. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:42 pm  (Quote)

    on rock center last night, jon huntsman’s daughter (who broke from the church) said she was confronted by the bishop about her dating a non-mormon (for 3 weeks) – after the conversation, she walked out of the church and never returned – she later married the guy in an episcopal ceremony

    a few minutes ago:

    Mitt Romney goes birther: ‘No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate’

    Now, I love being home in this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born. Ann was born in Henry Ford Hospital, I was born in Harper Hospital. No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place that we were born and raised.

    The crowd, predictably, went nuts.

  43. sponson says:
    August 24, 2012 at 12:42 pm  (Quote)

    Mitt Romney today in front of a large campaign crowd in Michigan.

    Now, I love being home in this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born. Ann was born in Henry Ford Hospital, I was born in Harper Hospital. No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate. They know that this is the place that we were born and raised.

    here is the video.

  44. Greenfinches says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:06 pm  (Quote)

    donna: The crowd, predictably, went nuts.

    They are nuts, wasting their some of their life going to see him……………

    Yes people have every right to vote Republican – but this particular candidate seems the least competent and least impressive one ever, and my memories (true, from overseas) go back to Gerald Ford.

    and I would have said that even before this latest utterance!

  45. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:07 pm  (Quote)

    didn’t reuters ask to see his birth certificate?

    here’s the piece of crap he released to reuters

    Yes, Republican Mitt Romney appears eligible to be president, according to a copy of Romney’s birth certificate released to Reuters by his campaign. Willard Mitt Romney, the certificate says, was born in Detroit on March 12, 1947.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/29/us-usa-campaign-romney-birth-certificate-idUSBRE84S1GF20120529

  46. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm  (Quote)

    Hey, this is something I have really needed. WordPress has an admin interface with markup tools, but I miss them commenting directly to the comments in the end-user interface.

    It works in the Editor too.

    Keith: It also let me try out a new plugin I just installed in FireFox to simplify standard markup in my posts

  47. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:34 pm  (Quote)

    they say timing is everything

    Donald Trump Posted Birther Tweet Same Hour As Romney Speech

    As he often does, Donald Trump tweeted about his ongoing conspiracy theories regarding President Obama’s birth certificate on Friday. In an awkward case of bad timing, however, it came right as Mitt Romney joked about the issue, prompting criticism from the Obama camapign over Romneys’ refusal to condemn birther supporters.

    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump

    Former Navy SEAL Questions @BarackObama’s birthplace huff.to/NNrCl5

  48. LW says:
    August 24, 2012 at 1:42 pm  (Quote)

    Mitt Romney: “In Case Anyone Hasn’t Noticed, I’m White!”

    Goes On To Clarify: “And I’ve Never Had Trouble Getting a Cab at Night, Either!”

  49. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:14 pm  (Quote)

    LW: Ay, you poke a recent sore spot.

    The family went to the moom pitcher theAYter last week, and there was a poster in the box office advertising a Rifftrax live simulcast thingy of Manos: Hands of Fate …taking place on the day before. Argh.

    (We’d previously gone to a similar event for Plan 9, which besides being hilarious on its own, also introduced us to Jonathan Coulton, whom we’d somehow managed to miss knowing about up until then. So that was an excellent day’s outing.)

    I highly recommend the DVD of the live riffing of Plan 9. Its laugh until you’re crying material.

  50. gorefan says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:28 pm  (Quote)

    donna: they say timing is everything

    Maybe Romney expected a larger bump in the polls after picking Ryan. They say if you are still trying to shore up your base in August, you have real problems.

  51. Xyxox says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:30 pm  (Quote)

    sponson:
    Mitt Romney today in front of a large campaign crowd in Michigan.

    here is the video.

    Playing flirty games with the Birthers this late in the game tells me he’s got some bad internal polling about the base sitting this election out.

  52. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:50 pm  (Quote)

    Xyxox: “Playing flirty games with the Birthers this late in the game tells me he’s got some bad internal polling about the base sitting this election out.”

    SERIOUSLY!!!!!

    he should have moved to the center after the primaries

    now, on the eve of the convention, he’s still moving farther right with ryan, rape and birtherism?

    me too thinks this doesn’t bode well for confidence from the base

  53. ASK Esq says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:51 pm  (Quote)

    Xyxox: Playing flirty games with the Birthers this late in the game tells me he’s got some bad internal polling about the base sitting this election out.

    This is a little more than playing flirty games. He just stuck his tongue down the birthers’ collective throat.

  54. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 2:56 pm  (Quote)

    ASK Esq: This is a little more than playing flirty games. He just stuck his tongue down the birthers’ collective throat.

    And Bibi puts his tongue up Hagee’s anus.

  55. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:00 pm  (Quote)

    donna: The crowd, predictably, went nuts.

    Well, they are nuts.

  56. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:25 pm  (Quote)

    LW:
    Mitt Romney: “In Case Anyone Hasn’t Noticed, I’m White!”

    Goes On To Clarify: “And I’ve Never Had Trouble Getting a Cab at Night, Either!”

    It really does feel like that’s the direction he was headed in with that comment.
    I guess he’s trying to get Obama re-elected too.

  58. Xyxox says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:28 pm  (Quote)

    And now, the birther arguments finally come full circle. See THIS gem from Free Republic:

    To: 2ndDivisionVet

    If everyone KNOWS Obama was born here then why does he keep releasing FAKE birth certificates?

    Two so far…

    3 posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 1:40:59 PM by Mr. K (“The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]”)
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

  59. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:41 pm  (Quote)

    Obama replies: ‘Born in the U.S.A.’ – Well, President Obama — or an aide — tweeted out a musical response to Mitt Romney’s birth certificate joke.

    The tweet from Obama’s Twitter account linked to a video of Bruce Springsteen singing — naturally — “Born in the U.S.A.”

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/08/obama-replies-born-in-the-usa/1#.UDfY4KOwUzQ

  60. gorefan says:
    August 24, 2012 at 3:53 pm  (Quote)

    donna: rape and birtherism?

    Did you know that the doctor who taught Congressman Akins physiology was a Romney surrogate spokesman in 2008?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-doctor-behind-todd-akins-rape-theory-was-a-romney-surrogate-in-2007-20120821,0,80862.story

  61. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:21 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: “Did you know that the doctor who taught Congressman Akins physiology was a Romney surrogate spokesman in 2008?”

    wilke?

    the bogus theory actually dates back to the 13th century when it was thought a female had to have an orgasm in order to conceive

    the 13th century is “present day” to regressives”

    IF TRUE, and since 75% of women never reach orgasm, there would be many fewer people in the world

    7 Birthers Speaking At The Republican Convention

    http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/24/743791/birther-convention/

  62. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm  (Quote)

    donna: it was thought a female had to have an orgasm in order to conceive

    Angel had the hiccups last night. Does that count for anything?

  63. Thrifty says:
    August 24, 2012 at 4:44 pm  (Quote)

    I think that, relatively speaking, I would have more respect for a Birther who subscribed to just ONE conspiracy theory. Like he says “Yeah he was born in Kenya and released a forged birth certificate, but that stuff about a fake social security number and forged selective service registration is just ridiculous!”

    I’m astounded by the willingness of Birthers to latch on to anything they hear that is negative of Obama. To their credit, most of them will at least stop short of the kooky science-fiction level stuff, like “Obama is a time travelling Martian CIA agent.”

    But it’s just so absurd that Obama would forge a birth certificate, THEN steal a social security number, THEN forge a selective service registration, THEN publicly admit that his father was never a U.S. citizen thus rendering him ineligible to be president (in the Birthers’ warped reading of the Constitution). They believe Obama did all these things when doing one would make the others unnecessary. With a fake birth certificate, you can get your own real social security number. The risks of registering with selective service in 1979, when there’s no wars going on, are vastly outweighed by the penalties for NOT registering.

    It’s all so stupid. It’s like a man and 5 of his friends hatch a brilliant scheme to rob a bank. They pull it off, steal 10 million dollars, are undetected, evade the police, split up the money, and flee the country. Then one of the guys with his 2 million share decides that instead of just BUYING a car, he murders a guy on the streets of Nassau and steals his car.

  64. Majority WIll says:
    August 24, 2012 at 5:03 pm  (Quote)

    Obama should retort: “No one ever asked to see my taxes. Kindergarten records, sure, but not my taxes.

  65. misha says:
    August 24, 2012 at 5:06 pm  (Quote)

    Thrifty: Then one of the guys with his 2 million share decides that instead of just BUYING a car, he murders a guy on the streets of Nassau and steals his car.

    What a coincidence. The same thing happened to me.

  66. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 6:00 pm  (Quote)

    Until the election (or someone tells me I have to remove it) I’m displaying the Real Clear Politics poll summary in the sidebar.

  67. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 6:40 pm  (Quote)

    Phil Berg says Obama was born in Kenya, but has a legitimate social-security number.

    Thrifty: I think that, relatively speaking, I would have more respect for a Birther who subscribed to just ONE conspiracy theory. Like he says “Yeah he was born in Kenya and released a forged birth certificate, but that stuff about a fake social security number and forged selective service registration is just ridiculous!”

  68. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 6:58 pm  (Quote)

    another birther FRY-DAY

    CA – Orly v Obama – OC Superior Court – Request for default denied

    REQUEST FOR ENTRY OF DEFAULT SUBMITTED BY TAITZ, ORLY REJECTED ON 08/24/2012.

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/ca-orly-v-obama-oc-superior-court-request-for-default-denied/

  69. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 24, 2012 at 7:11 pm  (Quote)

    donna:
    another birther FRY-DAY

    CA – Orly v Obama – OC Superior Court – Request for default denied

    REQUEST FOR ENTRY OF DEFAULT SUBMITTED BY TAITZ, ORLY REJECTED ON 08/24/2012.

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/ca-orly-v-obama-oc-superior-court-request-for-default-denied/

    *Mario falls into a pit sound effect*

  70. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 7:20 pm  (Quote)

    As Ta-Nehisi Coates writes in The Atlantic this month, the birthers, strapped in their waxen wings, aim for nothing less than the sun:

    “If Obama is not truly American, then America has still never had a black president.”

    The reason Romney doesn’t have to show the country his papers isn’t because everyone knows he was born in Michigan. It’s because whiteness remains unquestionably “American” for some people in a way blackness does not. That should not be a point of pride for Romney; it should be a matter of anger and disappointment.

    from

    What to Make of Mitt Romney’s Birther Joke?

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/romney-birtherism-joke-michigan

  71. BillTheCat says:
    August 24, 2012 at 7:57 pm  (Quote)

    In case anyone hasn’t heard, get ready for Birtherpalooza in AZ soon

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/birtherpalooza_arpaio_rnc.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

  72. donna says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:07 pm  (Quote)

    “Birthers Plan Their Own Convention Next Month In Arizona”

    duck and cover

  73. Sudoku says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:15 pm  (Quote)

    The judge in the TN case, LLF, Dummet, et al v DNC and Wasserman-Schultz, awarded Defendants some atty fees as sanctions.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/103848738/2012-08-24-WDTN-LLFvDNC-SANCTIONS-ORDER-ECF-32

  74. Thrifty says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:47 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Until the election (or someone tells me I have to remove it) I’m displaying the Real Clear Politics poll summary in the sidebar.

    Cool little widget. Obama only seems to lead Romney by a single point though. It doesn’t look like he’s ever had much of a commanding lead (5 points at best). That seems counter to the popular thought around here that a Romney win is inconceivable.

    And before anyone jumps down my throat, I’m an ardent Obama supporter, but don’t share your optimism.

  75. Thrifty says:
    August 24, 2012 at 8:51 pm  (Quote)

    Last week at the gym, I saw a documentary about Kenya on one of the TVs. I couldn’t stop thinking about Barack Obama the whole time.

    They did show a school named after Senator Obama. I think it had been dedicated when he was still a Senator, but they never felt like updating it.

  76. Keith says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:22 pm  (Quote)

    donna:
    “Birthers Plan Their Own Convention Next Month In Arizona”

    duck and cover

    I learned the “duck and cover” drill in school in Arizona. When I got to high school, the chemistry teacher had the instructions on taped on the inside of the sliding door to the supplies cupboard:

    1) get under your desk
    2) bend over
    3) put your head between your knees
    4) kiss your ass goodbye

  77. G says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:48 pm  (Quote)

    Awesome!

    Dr. Conspiracy: Until the election (or someone tells me I have to remove it) I’m displaying the Real Clear Politics poll summary in the sidebar.

  78. Keith says:
    August 24, 2012 at 9:54 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Awesome!

    Yeah. Not sure how much credence to give it though. It shows Arizona as ‘leaning Romney’. Every other poll summary shows Arizona as ‘solid Romney’. He’s got an 8.5 point lead in Arizona (RCP average). How big a lead before it turns ‘solid’ for crying out loud.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to see Maricopa County wake up and smell the saguaro blossoms, because Pima County just ain’t gonna carry the state all by itself.

  79. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 24, 2012 at 10:19 pm  (Quote)

    I commend Jay Bookman’s article at the Atlanta Journal Constitution on who is more “mainstream,” Obama or Romney.

  80. gorefan says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:25 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Awesome!

    Keith: Not sure how much credence to give it though.

    Here is a reminder that polls may not be very meaningful. And methodolgy and interpetation of the numbers is everything.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/172821/internal-polling/yuval-levin

  81. G says:
    August 24, 2012 at 11:26 pm  (Quote)

    SWEET!!!

    Sudoku: The judge in the TN case, LLF, Dummet, et al v DNC and Wasserman-Schultz, awarded Defendants some atty fees as sanctions.http://www.scribd.com/doc/103848738/2012-08-24-WDTN-LLFvDNC-SANCTIONS-ORDER-ECF-32

  82. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 12:34 am  (Quote)

    Thrifty, you are entitled to your personal pessimism. That seems to include you perceiving a stronger position (“inconceivable”) than I am aware has actually been made at all.

    Speaking for myself, there is a vast difference between the concepts of “inconceivable” and unlikely, so I find your particular quip to be a bit hyperbolic and inaccurate.

    Statistically speaking, the data points clearly show that Romney has always been and continues to remain the underdog in this race and faces quite an uphill battle challenge to take over the lead.

    We have now entered a key window of Romney’s candidacy, where by all rights, he should be able to enjoy at least a temporary “bump”, as traditionally seen after both a VP selection has been made and a party holds itsConvention – events which happen to be taking place back-to-back for the GOP across a two-week window. So, historically, one should expect his candidacy to see some forward momentum in this period. If you look back to 2008, McCain temporarily took a small national polling lead in late summer/early September, as a result of these same traditional campaign milestone events.

    However, only one week later, the Democratic Convention takes place, which should also provide the temporary customary “bump” in their numbers again, in return. By mid to late September, the dynamic is likely to stabilize for the most part, until the debates. Each of those in turn, carry the potential to move the race a few points in one direction or another. Barring any unforseen events, those are the remaining standard movement shapers of Presidential Election poll trends that feed into the actual election.

    We are living in probably the most hyper-partisan environment in modern US political history. As a result, the true pool of available “undecideds” is also showing up in polls to be the smallest percentage seen as well. Estimates I’ve seen have put this “undecided” number as low as only 3%. Even the high end estimates I’ve seen astonishingly seem to remain under 10%. That leaves a very low probability of major shifts in direction for polling trend lines. So it should be no surprise at all to see that national number generally have remained within 5% of each other at all.

    But that also means it is unlikely (but certainly not impossible) to see dramatic movement in the trendlines either. So statistically speaking, this only presents another difficult hurdle for an underdog to overcome.

    A charismatic, relatable candidate with a postive and detailed vision for the country has a greater chance to overcome such obstacles. Romney, who has been campaigning for this position since 2007, has still not demonstrated any of these qualities. In fact, quite the opposite. So there is simply very little reason to have confidence that he can rise to that challenge.

    On a similar note, there is not much of a sound basis to expect the Romney campaign to score a decisive advantage in the crucial October debate formats either. Which leaves the factors of campaign strength – funding, campaign skill/toughness and ground game. Of those, the only area in which Romney has the advantage is funding. But at the ridiculous dollar amounts we are seeing on both sides, even that may simply be rendered meaningless this cycle.

    Then there is actual base turnout and issues of voter suppression efforts. These truly are areas of serious concern this cycle. But when you factor in what really matters, the Electoral College Vote count, it still poses a daunting task for the underdog, which has to essentially run the table on winning all the true “battleground states” in order to cross the crucial 270 mark. Which brings us right back to reality, where all data to date shows that to be quite unlikely.

    AGAIN, there is *huge* difference between “quite unlikely” and the “inconceivable” strawman that you threw out. If you cannot tell the difference between those concepts on the spectrum of probabilities, I suggest you try to gain a better understanding.

    Because maybe then, you can actually provide some rationale to explain your pessimism, instead of simply commenting on a trend line showing blue nearly always clearly above red, and reacting like Eeyore.

    Thrifty: That seems counter to the popular thought around here that a Romney win is inconceivable.
    And before anyone jumps down my throat, I’m an ardent Obama supporter, but don’t share your optimism.

  83. gorefan says:
    August 25, 2012 at 12:47 am  (Quote)

    G: But at the ridiculous dollar amounts we are seeing on both sides, even that may simply be rendered meaningless this cycle.

    That’s the good part about being in a solidly red or blue state – most of the blanket TV adds will be in toss up states.

  84. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:01 am  (Quote)

    My comment on “awesome!” was simply to having the simple visual widget added here, nothing more. I simply think that is a cool addition on its face. I pay quite close attention to these polls and various sites tracking of them, so it was not meant to be any indication of surprise glee, just because the trendlines are favorable to my voting desires. I’ve been well aware of this RCP graph, so what it shows is something I’ve been familiar with for quite some time.

    That being said, although I like its simplicity and I track it, as one of many sources, I don’t consider national polling to be that useful of a measure at all in Presidential Election monitoring, as we don’t elect a President based on the national Popular Vote. I prefer to pay attention to aggregate trend lines in state polls, which help feed into the Electoral College models. THAT is really where it counts. While the two (Popular Vote and EV) are often in lockstep, that is not always true and can be quite misleading. Particularly since margin numbers within deeply solid partisan states can end up skewing the overall averages.

    So, upon reflection, maybe I should have simply said “neato” instead of “awesome”. That would be more appropriate. I certainly support and encourage what RCP is doing and appreciate their consolidation of info into simple tracking graphs like this. But I encourage everyone to not just rely on any one single site (and certainly not get over excited/depressed by any single poll). Instead, it is best to stick to looking at aggregate trendlines and examine multiple credible aggregate tracking sites and consider multiple factors in evaluating the race – with EV tracking being weighed as a much higher factor than national polling trendlines.

    In regards to AZ, that has been a solidly red state for the past 3 Presidential elections, so yeah, I agree and also would rate AZ as “solid Romney”. The only other state in that SW quadrant that will be even more red than AZ this cycle is UT, for obvious reasons. I should point out that AZ also has the 4th largest Mormon population in the US (after UT, ID at 48%, WY at 19%, then AZ at 11%. Then you drop below 10%, with MT at 8%, then CO at only 5%…). Obama remains favored to take CO, NV and NM.

    So yeah, while I’d love AZ to turn “blue”, I would consider that extremely unlikely this cycle. Right now, I’d put Romney’s chances of winning the Presidency as greater than Obama’s chances to win AZ.

    Keith: Yeah. Not sure how much credence to give it though. It shows Arizona as ‘leaning Romney’. Every other poll summary shows Arizona as ‘solid Romney’. He’s got an 8.5 point lead in Arizona (RCP average). How big a lead before it turns ‘solid’ for crying out loud.Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to see Maricopa County wake up and smell the saguaro blossoms, because Pima County just ain’t gonna carry the state all by itself.

  85. MN-Skeptic says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:02 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: That’s the good part about being in a solidly red or blue state – most of the blanket TV adds will be in toss up states.

    The political ads have started and I am getting pretty quick with the Mute button on the remote. I already know who I’m voting for, so I mute every single political ad. At least with television, you can see when the ads are done. I pretty much have to give up listening to the radio. Fortunately I got a new car this year and now I can use my iPod for music in it. I guess I can live with that. But, boy!, will I be glad when the election is over!!!

  86. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:04 am  (Quote)

    Oh, you don’t have to tell me that…as a citizen of Ohio, we are about as blitzed by it as it gets…so enjoy your tranquility, while we take on the crushing pain… 😉

    gorefan: That’s the good part about being in a solidly red or blue state – most of the blanket TV adds will be in toss up states.

  87. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:11 am  (Quote)

    For us here in OH, the political ad season usually starts as soon as the Primary contests get going…and then it really doesn’t let up – only increasing in intensity. So yeah, we breathe a huge sigh of relief when the General Election is finally over, regardless of who wins.

    But yeah, the mute button becomes quite handy…although when saturation gets to the point is has already reached, I’m surprised how easy it starting to become to instictually tune the commercials out altogether! …Must be some sort of intereral survival mechanism kicking in…

    MN-Skeptic: The political ads have started and I am getting pretty quick with the Mute button on the remote. I already know who I’m voting for, so I mute every single political ad. At least with television, you can see when the ads are done. I pretty much have to give up listening to the radio. Fortunately I got a new car this year and now I can use my iPod for music in it. I guess I can live with that. But, boy!, will I be glad when the election is over!!!

  88. donna says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:17 am  (Quote)

    funny of the day:

    An observant Orly Supporter Asks:

    Stephen Thomas
    August 24th, 2012 @ 8:25 pm

    Dr, Taitz, If you were able to donate $280,000 to your Senate campaign, why do you need to ask for donations from us, your loyal followers?

    Slow learners…

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-observant-orly-supporter-asks/

  89. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:25 am  (Quote)

    WOW! Excellent article by Jay Bookman. That chart was particularly telling and really puts the whole picture in better perspective.

    I have a lot of respect for Mr. Bookman and have enjoyed many of his past articles as well, so I highly recommend not just this particular one, but his writings and analysis in general.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I commend Jay Bookman’s article at the Atlanta Journal Constitution on who is more “mainstream,” Obama or Romney.

  90. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:35 am  (Quote)

    LOL! Indeed…!

    donna: funny of the day:An observant Orly Supporter Asks:Stephen ThomasAugust 24th, 2012 @ 8:25 pmDr, Taitz, If you were able to donate $280,000 to your Senate campaign, why do you need to ask for donations from us, your loyal followers?

    Slow learners… http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-observant-orly-supporter-asks/

  91. Sudoku says:
    August 25, 2012 at 3:15 am  (Quote)

    Incoming! Just when you think they could not get more idiotic…

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.ca/2012/08/dr-eowyn-british-national-archives-show.html

  92. Lupin says:
    August 25, 2012 at 3:39 am  (Quote)

    donna: As Ta-Nehisi Coates writes in The Atlantic this month, the birthers, strapped in their waxen wings, aim for nothing less than the sun:

    “If Obama is not truly American, then America has still never had a black president.”

    The reason Romney doesn’t have to show the country his papers isn’t because everyone knows he was born in Michigan. It’s because whiteness remains unquestionably “American” for some people in a way blackness does not. That should not be a point of pride for Romney; it should be a matter of anger and disappointment.

    Two observations here:

    1. For (most of ) the Republicans (certainly their base) the very notion of a Democrat in the White House has become illegitimate — a notion that was in effect bolstered by the SCOTUS decision in Bush v Gore.

    This, of course, is, or should be, unacceptable for any modern democracy and loudly denounced by the media and the sane politicians, but then again, here we are. To parody Rumsfeld: you do with the media you have, not the ones you should have.

    2. The trope of Romney being the real American and Obama the interloper is of courseridiculous. Obama is related to every American President except Van Buren. Romney’s Family went to Mexico to escape the Mormon Church’s rejection of Polygamy. Who’s the real American here? But Obama is black, has a funny name, and is a democrat, therefore GO TO 1.

  93. foreigner says:
    August 25, 2012 at 3:46 am  (Quote)

    I wanted to ask whether the Dr.C. got the Hawaii 1961 Natality Statistics
    code manual meanwhile

  94. Keith says:
    August 25, 2012 at 4:07 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku:
    Incoming!Just when you think they could not get more idiotic…

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.ca/2012/08/dr-eowyn-british-national-archives-show.html

    I just left the following message there. I dunno if it will ever see the light of day.

    (rats, I had the message in my clipboard but I lost it. typical. It was something like this…)

    I recently spoke, IN PERSON, to the Director of the project to review the Colonial Migrated Archive, Dr Anthony Badger. He stated in no uncertain terms and without ambiguity that the only information in the archives relating to Obama was with respect to his foreign study and airlift to the US for that study.

    Any rumor to the contrary must be taken as just that, unsubstantiated rumor, until such time as absolute proof, not just reckless claims, are shown.

  95. Greenfinches says:
    August 25, 2012 at 5:30 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: I commend Jay Bookman’s article at the Atlanta Journal Constitution on who is more “mainstream,

    Doc I read that – and was amused to note that Obama is seen as more mainstream than the VP….white and genuine blue-collar-stock Joe Biden is not seen as mainstream! It is more than a youth spent in Indonesia that puts you beyond the pale it seems. Glory be. I have to ask myself where the same poll would be putting Joe Arpaio or Rush the Supreme Authority….

  96. Thrifty says:
    August 25, 2012 at 8:07 am  (Quote)

    G: AGAIN, there is *huge* difference between “quite unlikely” and the “inconceivable” strawman that you threw out. If you cannot tell the difference between those concepts on the spectrum of probabilities, I suggest you try to gain a better understanding.

    Because maybe then, you can actually provide some rationale to explain your pessimism, instead of simply commenting on a trend line showing blue nearly always clearly above red, and reacting like Eeyore.

    It wasn’t a strawman. Exaggeration, maybe. A strawman would be attacking a position that nobody takes. Like you said, the prevailing mood is that a Romney win is unlikely. The attitude that I was picking up was that it was just inconceivable. It’s a matter of degree and personal interpretation of the views projected by the group. I would link you to the posts which gave me this view, except there’s a lot of activity in these comments and I can’t remember where they are.

    As per my rationale, well what I see is that:

    1) Romney’s got more money.
    2) The unemployment rate is still uncomfortably high.
    3) Obama’s been leading pretty consistently, but just barely.

    Your points about Romney being less likeable and not projecting a clear plan for the future are well made, but I wonder how relevant they are. Elections are also about voting against somebody for some voters. And I’m thinking here of the passive voter who doesn’t follow the news or politics that closely, but just knows that the economy sucks and is gonna vote against Obama because of that.

  97. Majority Will says:
    August 25, 2012 at 11:00 am  (Quote)

    Your comment was published.

    Keith: I just left the following message there. I dunno if it will ever see the light of day.

    (rats, I had the message in my clipboard but I lost it. typical. It was something like this…)

    I recently spoke, IN PERSON, to the Director of the project to review the Colonial Migrated Archive, Dr Anthony Badger. He stated in no uncertain terms and without ambiguity that the only information in the archives relating to Obama was with respect to his foreign study and airlift to the US for that study.

    Any rumor to the contrary must be taken as just that, unsubstantiated rumor, until such time as absolute proof, not just reckless claims, are shown.

  98. gorefan says:
    August 25, 2012 at 12:36 pm  (Quote)

    G: so enjoy your tranquility, while we take on the crushing pain

    Our poor mail carriers will be the ones with the crushing pain – after labor day it will be a non-stop barrage of full color, heavy paper stock, campaign flyers. We usually get a dozen of them per day, sometimes two or three from the same candidate or for the same issue, and they all go straight into the trash/recycle. We don’t even look at them. They have to be one of the least effective uses of campaign funds. And they will continue to come weeks after the election. Zombie mailings.

  99. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 12:54 pm  (Quote)

    Good points, I agree!

    gorefan: Our poor mail carriers will be the ones with the crushing pain – after labor day it will be a non-stop barrage of full color, heavy paper stock, campaign flyers. We usually get a dozen of them per day, sometimes two or three from the same candidate or for the same issue, and they all go straight into the trash/recycle. We don’t even look at them. They have to be one of the least effective uses of campaign funds. And they will continue to come weeks after the election. Zombie mailings.

  100. G says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:10 pm  (Quote)

    Good post, Thrifty!

    I really appreciate your more detailed breakdowns and sensable explanations here.

    While I cannot recall any posts that have gone as far as to portray Romney’s chances as “inconceivable”, it is worth taking the time to weigh in and agree that anyone expressing such an extreme position (bordering on impossible) is also being irrational in their exuberance.

    However, I want to be clear that at this point, I’m just making a blanket theoretical and not implying any accusation, as I still am unaware of ANY serious post here than took such an extreme position like that at all. So until I come across one, it sure does seem that we are discussing nothing more than a strawman argument.

    In terms of your concerns in your last paragraph, I still sense nothing more than an emotional fear-based pessimism from you in your impression. I think you are overlooking that there are very few true “undecideds” out there this cycle. Those who have ODS or have been brainwashed by a constant RW propaganda cycle to be entrenched in ODS type positions are already locked in. They are the “against” something voters you are fearing. For whatever “mushy middle” is still out there and is impressionable, I don’t see evidence to support that “unsatisfied” is on itself, a solidly persuadable argument. There is much evidence from prior election cycles to point to the strong ifluence of “likeablility” in a candidate. Obama still has that. Romney sorely lacks it. So, the historical picture out there supports a conclusion that you simply cannot win on mere disappointment alone, without presenting a likable and believable alternative.

    Thrifty: It wasn’t a strawman. Exaggeration, maybe. A strawman would be attacking a position that nobody takes. Like you said, the prevailing mood is that a Romney win is unlikely. The attitude that I was picking up was that it was just inconceivable. It’s a matter of degree and personal interpretation of the views projected by the group. I would link you to the posts which gave me this view, except there’s a lot of activity in these comments and I can’t remember where they are.As per my rationale, well what I see is that:1) Romney’s got more money.2) The unemployment rate is still uncomfortably high.3) Obama’s been leading pretty consistently, but just barely.Your points about Romney being less likeable and not projecting a clear plan for the future are well made, but I wonder how relevant they are. Elections are also about voting against somebody for some voters. And I’m thinking here of the passive voter who doesn’t follow the news or politics that closely, but just knows that the economy sucks and is gonna vote against Obama because of that.

  101. Foggy says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:20 pm  (Quote)

    O/T: I made another Anti-Birther Report

    [Moved to the Open Thread. Doc.]

  102. LW says:
    August 25, 2012 at 1:39 pm  (Quote)

    Sudoku:
    Incoming!Just when you think they could not get more idiotic…

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.ca/2012/08/dr-eowyn-british-national-archives-show.html

    Dr. Eowyn (presumably daughter of Dr. Eomund) sure talks all scholarly and stuff.

    “…the father of the POS in the White House…”

  103. gorefan says:
    August 25, 2012 at 3:28 pm  (Quote)

    Sudoku: Incoming! Just when you think they could not get more idiotic…

    The link doesn’t work and the ORYR homepage no longer lists that story. Weird

  104. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 25, 2012 at 4:12 pm  (Quote)

    Foggy:
    O/T: I made another Anti-Birther Report

    [Moved to the Open Thread. Doc.]

    Hi PJFoggy!!!

    Your video is very good, and I gave it a like. I was going to comment, but I noticed your comments were turned off. This is probably going to drive Birthers crazy.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  105. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 25, 2012 at 4:50 pm  (Quote)

    I think you have a fallacy in the video. You conclude that Romney is not a birther because he clearly says that he has no questions about were Obama was born.

    But since when could you ever tell what Romney believes based on what he says? What he says changes all the time.

    See:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9njHHyRI7g

    Foggy: O/T: I made another Anti-Birther Report

  106. Sudoku says:
    August 25, 2012 at 5:16 pm  (Quote)

    Odd. Maybe they withdrew it following Keith’s post? Have they actually found a line they wouldn’t cross? Imagine that.

    Keith: I just left the following message there. I dunno if it will ever see the light of day.

    gorefan: The link doesn’t work and the ORYR homepage no longer lists that story. Weird

    Majority Will: Your comment was published.

  107. Northland10 says:
    August 25, 2012 at 8:26 pm  (Quote)

    I can be optimistic about a great many things. That optimism has limits whereas there are no limits on where birthers will go.

    Sudoku:
    Odd.Maybe they withdrew it following Keith’s post?Have they actually found a line they wouldn’t cross?Imagine that.

  108. Keith says:
    August 25, 2012 at 10:11 pm  (Quote)

    Well it probably wasn’t me that spooked them, several people tossed my ‘unsubstantiated’ back at me, because I can’t prove I talked to Dr. Badger after all. Maybe I did help light a fire under them though. Someone else pointed out that the source article says ‘someone’ looked it up, but who the heck is someone?

    Anyway, the following statement is now on the top of their page:

    UPDATE: Two very credible sources informed us that records regarding “an unnamed son of Obama Sr. was born in Kenya in 1961” do not nor ever existed at the British National Archives. We can’t say anything more on this until the sources publish their research.

    Sudoku: Odd. Maybe they withdrew it following Keith’s post? Have they actually found a line they wouldn’t cross? Imagine that.

    Keith: I just left the following message there. I dunno if it will ever see the light of day.

    gorefan: The link doesn’t work and the ORYR homepage no longer lists that story. Weird

    Majority Will: Your comment was published.

  109. misha says:
    August 25, 2012 at 10:36 pm  (Quote)

    They’re clever, those Jews:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/video-man-pranks-times-square-crowds-posing-a-fake-celebrity-article-1.1142640

    Man pranks Times Square crowds by posing as a fake celebrity

    Brett Cohen is not a movie star or pop singer, but the video prankster sure got treated like one by gullible crowds when he swanned through the streets of midtown Manhattan with his own entourage of eager paparazzi and a camera crew.

  110. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 26, 2012 at 1:16 am  (Quote)

    OMG!!! Did I really get a copy of Trump’s Big Surprise???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/donald-trumps-big-surprise/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  111. Sudoku says:
    August 26, 2012 at 1:21 am  (Quote)

    Yes, the article was gone for awhile, now it is back with a small disclaimer. Not that any of the posters seem to notice. I just tried to point it out to them. Some of them aren’t real sharp, I may have to check and try once more. 😀

    Keith: Anyway, the following statement is now on the top of their page:

  112. Winet says:
    August 26, 2012 at 10:34 am  (Quote)

    I am late to this party but find the analysis of Obama’s birth certificate by the “doctor” to be amusing.
    For anyone who has used Photoshop extensively as I have the BC has definitely been altered. If you magnify the document there are white halos around the edges of all the typed letters which indicates something was erased and new letters were pasted in .
    I understand that few have actually used PS but to change documents is easy on white paper . In the case of Obama’s BC there is a background pattern which would be impossible to duplicate after erasing letters .

    Debunking is simple when your premise is bunk

  113. misha says:
    August 26, 2012 at 10:47 am  (Quote)

    Winet: For anyone who has used Photoshop extensively as I have the BC has definitely been altered.

    I completely agree. I did an extensive internet search, and found this Kenya BC (Obama’s?) that is going to bite him!!

  114. Paper says:
    August 26, 2012 at 11:16 am  (Quote)

    And your premise is bunk, so you are right, easy as pie, by your very own principle, you are speaking nonsense. Your premise is bunk because it is ridiculous to talk about a forged PDF when the information is verified by Hawaii. Your details are also nonsense, but I’m just sticking to your own principle, and your premise is bunk, so need to debunk your details.

    Yawn. Birther B.S. # 3,532 zapped.

    Try again. You may yet win this carnival game prize:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kewpie_doll

    All it takes is 5,000 fallacies logged against your reputation, and you win!

    Winet:
    I am late to this party but find the analysis of Obama’s birth certificate by the “doctor” to be amusing. For anyone who has used Photoshop extensively as I have the BC has definitely been altered. If you magnify the document there are white halos around the edges of all the typed letters which indicates something was erased and new letters were pasted in . I understand that few have actually used PS but to change documents is easy on white paper . In the case of Obama’s BC there is a background pattern which would be impossible to duplicate after erasing letters .

    Debunking is simple when your premise is bunk

  115. Majority Will says:
    August 26, 2012 at 11:36 am  (Quote)

    Winet: I am late to this party .

    Erroneous and irrelevant. As Paper said, the information has been verified by the relevant, legal authority.

    Why would the former Republican administration of the state of Hawaii forge their own documents backed by the authority of the federal government?

    Does the Treasury issue counterfeit bills?

    What does knowledge of bitmap editing in Adobe Photoshop have to do with vector processing for the encapsulation of data in the Portable Document Format?

    You post is asinine, misinformed and meaningless birther garbage.

    Birther bigot websites are poisoning your mind.

    Adobe PDF developer resources: http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/tips/topic_tip31.html

  116. Keith says:
    August 26, 2012 at 12:28 pm  (Quote)

    Seems like a good time to remind folks about the Doc’s warning sign near the top of the page just under the Quote of the Day.

  117. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm  (Quote)

    I just clobbered Judson Phillips WITH LOGIC. You should read his nonsensical editorial.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/to-judson-phillips-yes-maniacs-scare-sane-people/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  118. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 26, 2012 at 4:45 pm  (Quote)

    Until the liberal elite starts listening to the voices in their head, there’s nothing to be afraid of.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I just clobbered Judson Phillips WITH LOGIC. You should read his nonsensical editorial.

  119. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 26, 2012 at 4:52 pm  (Quote)

    Yes, you are definitely late to the party, about 13 months late if you’re still beating the white space around the layers drum.

    If you are too lazy to try the experiment yourself, you could read this academic paper that describes halos created by Mixed Raster Content compression, a feature available in most high-end PDF creation software.

    http://image.unb.br/queiroz/papers/icip09zaghetto.pdf

    I am so really tired arrogant self-proclaimed experts who essentially don’t have a clue.

    Winet: I am late to this party but find the analysis of Obama’s birth certificate by the “doctor” to be amusing.
    For anyone who has used Photoshop extensively as I have the BC has definitely been altered. If you magnify the document there are white halos around the edges of all the typed letters which indicates something was erased and new letters were pasted in .
    I understand that few have actually used PS but to change documents is easy on white paper . In the case of Obama’s BC there is a background pattern which would be impossible to duplicate after erasing letters .

  120. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 26, 2012 at 5:56 pm  (Quote)

    OMG!!! Did The Birther Think Tank force Donald Trump To cancel his Big Surprise speech???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/birther-think-tank-scoop-forces-trump-to-cancel-big-surprise/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  122. Sudoku says:
    August 26, 2012 at 11:56 pm  (Quote)

    I am in a fuss with a diptstick at ORYR. He insists the seal on Obama’s COLB is debossed, not embossed. He is linking to Obamasgarden (though he seems to believe he is linking to FactCheck). The pics on Obamasgarden show the “debossing” on the same side as Dr. Onaka’s stamp, which, from the FactCheck photos is clearly on the back.

    Any hep would be appreciated.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.ca/2012/08/myth-busted-zip-code-clerical-error.html
    http://factcheck.org/Images/image/birth_certificate_images/birth_certificate_3.jpg
    http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/

  123. Sudoku says:
    August 27, 2012 at 12:18 am  (Quote)

    Okay, I have tried to post something twice, but it is not showing up. This is a cranky test.

  124. Sudoku says:
    August 27, 2012 at 12:24 am  (Quote)

    Crap! I guess I ended up in moderation? The test went through but the 3 other posts did not.

  126. donna says:
    August 27, 2012 at 2:21 am  (Quote)

    GOP Announces Revised Convention Schedule Due To Isaac

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/gop-rnc-revised-convention-schedule-isaac.php?ref=fpb

    i don’t see trump and his “big surprise”

  127. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 2:38 am  (Quote)

    The spam filter did its weird thing again.

    Sudoku: Crap! I guess I ended up in moderation? The test went through but the 3 other posts did not.

  128. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 2:41 am  (Quote)

    What is “embossed” on one side is “debossed” on the other.

    See article here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/is-the-seal-bassackwards/

    Sudoku: I am in a fuss with a diptstick at ORYR. He insists the seal on Obama’s COLB is debossed, not embossed. He is linking to Obamasgarden (though he seems to believe he is linking to FactCheck). The pics on Obamasgarden show the “debossing” on the same side as Dr. Onaka’s stamp, which, from the FactCheck photos is clearly on the back.

    Any hep would be appreciated.

  130. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 3:24 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku: He insists the seal on Obama’s COLB is debossed, not embossed.

    In a hypertechnical sense he is probably right. With an embossed seal, the seal comes out of the paper towards you and the lettering in the seal can be read normally. With a debossed seal, the seal goes into the paper away from you and the lettering can be read normally.

    President Obama’s and apparently all the COLBs that are viewable on the internet, have a debossed seal. When you look at the front of the COLB, the seal comes out of the paper towards you and the writing in the seal appears backwards.

    Birthers like Danae, Miki Booth and Dean Haskins have all produced COLBs that have debossed seals. In fact that is why MsTickly is convinced that they are obots.

    IMO, Hawaii has two different seals, embossed and debossed, and what you get depends on the placement of the registrar stamp. If they stamp the front of the BC, you get an embossed seal, if they stamp the back of the BC, you get a debossed seal. I suspect they want the lettering in the seal to read normally on the side where the registrar stamp is placed and the raised part of the seal to be on the side where the vital statistics are written.

    I believe the MDEC got an embossed seal on the certified verification.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/96200621/2012-06-06-MDEC-Motion-to-Supplement-Response-to-Motion-for-Sanctions-S-D-Miss

  131. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 3:42 am  (Quote)

    donna: Sooooo, Dinesh D’Souza’s movie about Obama

    Indians usually detest black people. I’m not stereotyping; I’ve heard it 99% of the time. From the review: “Obama is not motivated by the same things we are. He’s not at heart a Democrat, or a progressive, or a liberal, or a leftist. He’s more of a sort of confused anti-colonialist.”

    Actually, India was better off as a colony. There wasn’t the endemic corruption, and the British stopped the custom of suttee. Also, Pakistan was not a separate country. Today, Pakistan is a world leader in corruption and subversion.

    So I’m happy that D’Souza admits he is appalled by anti-colonial belief. India and Pakistan should invite the British back in. Also, the only reason Gandhi’s strategy worked, is that he was dealing with the UK. If India was a German colony, they would have shot him on the first day.

    Esperanto, invented by a Jewish linguist, never got traction because the British made English the language that holds India and the world together. International aviation uses English officially.

    Bring back British imperialism!

  132. Keith says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:13 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What is “embossed” on one side is “debossed” on the other.

    See article here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/is-the-seal-bassackwards/

    That is not strictly correct. It is a common enough misconception though.

    Embossing is raising the foreground ‘image’ from the background ‘field’. Debossing is lowering the foreground ‘image’ from the background ‘field’.

    Your automobile license plate is embossed (probably). You can read the letters and numbers correctly when you look at the front, and they are raised from the background. If you then turn your license plate around backwards those letters appear to be lowered from the background and this might trick you into thinking that is a debossment, however, you can only read the letters and numbers if your brain can turn the image around; you are just looking at the backside of an embossment.

    When ink is imprinted on a piece of paper and it bleeds through to the backside and you look at the backside, you are not looking at a deprinting, you are looking at the backside of a piece of paper with the ink bled through.

    When the guy is looking at the backside of the embossed stamp on the document the image is reversed and that is the difference. A raised image on the front side is indeed a lowered image on the reverse, sure, but the image is reversed, which means its just the backside of the embossed stamp.

    If the bumps read ‘Hawaii’ on one side and the dents read ‘iiawaH’ on the other it is an emboss. It is in no way a deboss.

  133. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:14 am  (Quote)

    Unless you know which way the light is coming from, there’s no way to tell whether it’s embossed or impressed. See the optical illusion article here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/is-the-seal-bassackwards/

    gorefan: I believe the MDEC got an embossed seal on the certified verification.

  134. Keith says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:20 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: President Obama’s and apparently all the COLBs that are viewable on the internet, have a debossed seal. When you look at the front of the COLB, the seal comes out of the paper towards you and the writing in the seal appears backwards.

    Not the ones I’ve seen and paid attention to.

    Do you have a link to the image you are referencing?

  135. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:40 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Unless you know which way the light is coming from, there’s no way to tell whether it’s embossed or impressed.

    I want it monogrammed, or I’ll never be happy.

  136. The Magic M says:
    August 27, 2012 at 8:02 am  (Quote)

    misha: I want it monogrammed, or I’ll never be happy.

    If it’s not tattooed on the foot whose print is on the BC, it’s not legit. 😉

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Another Birther Book! This one has Nazis!!!

    It was not as entertaining as “Iron Sky”, that’s for sure.

    Fortunately the Amazon preview wasn’t longer, I was getting convulsions. Being an author myself, I cannot stomach if someone tries to dress up a political hit piece as literature, especially in this badly written way. (To be fair, I also hated “Sophie’s World” for the way it wraps a pseudo story around its philosophical lectures.)

  137. M.B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 9:12 am  (Quote)

    How can anyone who loves their country tolerate a lower definition of “Naural Born Citizen”?

    Don’t you care about who our president is and where his and his parents loyalties truly lie:

    Suppose, if the Emperor of Japan was in the US during an official visit and impregnated a beautiful US college student and secretly promised to marry her when he could work it all out with his family back in Japan, and meanwhile she delivers the child on US soil. The Emperor of Japan says that he wants the child to be raised in part in the US and in part in Japan. The Emperor’s family refuses to allow the child the right of ascencion and therefore the child is never adopted by the japanese Emperor, but he loves him, and he and the child’s mother love him and raise him to be the Emperor of Japan anyway, while being careful to maintain the child’s US citizenship by having the mother join the US military and then be stationed in Japan. When the child realizes that he cannot ever be the Emperor of Japan he leaves the US militay base in Japan and then comes to the United States to be raised by his mother’s parents. He grows up and decides to be a politician: his great longing is to become the President of the United States so that he can force his family in Japan to make him the Emperor or risk a war with the US.

    Now tell me should this man be allowed to run for he office of President? Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    You may say that my example lacks any relevance to Obama, however in general it’s not all that different: we just don’t happen to know for sure who Obama’ father is and even worse where Obama was born and where his and his parents true loyalties lie. Obama’s “dad” lived and died in Kenya, Obama’s mom lived most of her adult life abroad and only returned to the US to die. Their loyalties are highly suspect, and so are Obama’s. That is why the US Constitution says “No Person except a natural born citizen…shall be eligible to the Office of President”.

  138. Lupin says:
    August 27, 2012 at 9:38 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: Suppose, if the Emperor of Japan was in the US during an official visit and impregnated a beautiful US college student and secretly promised to marry her when he could work it all out with his family back in Japan, and meanwhile she delivers the child on US soil. The Emperor of Japan says that he wants the child to be raised in part in the US and in part in Japan. The Emperor’s family refuses to allow the child the right of ascencion and therefore the child is never adopted by the japanese Emperor, but he loves him, and he and the child’s mother love him and raise him to be the Emperor of Japan anyway, while being careful to maintain the child’s US citizenship by having the mother join the US military and then be stationed in Japan. When the child realizes that he cannot ever be the Emperor of Japan he leaves the US militay base in Japan and then comes to the United States to be raised by his mother’s parents. He grows up and decides to be a politician: his great longing is to become the President of the United States so that he can force his family in Japan to make him the Emperor or risk a war with the US.

    Now tell me should this man be allowed to run for he office of President? Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    The answer is, yes, he IS a natural-born citizen. Like all those millions of poor, tired, & huddled masses who came to your shores, knowing that their children might one day grow up to become President.

    Either millions of people would flock to your hypothetical candidate’s banner to get him elected, or not. Don’t you trust your own people?

  139. roadburner says:
    August 27, 2012 at 9:48 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: Now tell me should this man be allowed to run for he office of President? Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    if he ran on a hardline neo-con republican ticket, the birthers would probably shrug their shoulders and say `hell, at least he ain’t a nigger’ and ignore the issue

  140. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 9:52 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    He’s would in all likelyhood be considered a diplomat and so his child would not be a natural born citizen.

    But let me give you a scenario:

    A man and wife to come to the US in the 1950s, they stay here only occasional returning to their home country which is under a dictator for short visits with family. Twenty years after immigrating to the US they have a son (born in Florida) five years later they become naturalized citizens. The son never leaves the US, attends school here and never returns to his parents home country.

    Is he a natural born citizen?

  141. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:01 am  (Quote)

    Keith: Do you have a link to the image you are referencing?

    Actually the only people who have taken a clear image of a debossed seal are the folks at factcheck.org. Their one image of the President’s COLB shows it is raised on the side with the vital statistics written but eh lettering is backwards on that side.

    For the other COLBs like Danae’s, Booth’s and Sunahara’s (Haskins), we only have people’s descriptions of the seals and they describe a debossed seal like the President’s.

  142. James M says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:02 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: He’s would in all likelyhood be considered a diplomat and so his child would not be a natural born citizen.

    But let me give you a scenario:

    [A] son … [is] born in Florida…

    Is he a natural born citizen?

    Yes, and all other information is irrelevant.

  143. M.B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:04 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: Is he a natural born citizen?

    No, and thank goodness Romney didn’t choose the constitutionally ineligible Marco Rubio.

  144. James M says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:04 am  (Quote)

    …she delivers the child on US soil…. Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    Yes.

    Why is this concept so difficult?

  145. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:07 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: No

    Would your answer change if his parents naturalized five months after he was born?

    How about if they naturalized five days after he was born? Five minutes after he was born?

    How about if they naturalized five minutes before he was born?

  146. Scientist says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:11 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: He grows up and decides to be a politician: his great longing is to become the President of the United States so that he can force his family in Japan to make him the Emperor or risk a war with the US.

    Under the Constitution, the power to make war rests with Congress not the President. That would be the perfect situation for those worthless bums with single-digit approval ratings to grow a pair and say no to a war for once in our lifetimes.

  147. Scientist says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:13 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: No, and thank goodness Romney didn’t choose the constitutionally ineligible Marco Rubio.

    So, you think a possibly Canadian-born President with a possibly Irish-born VP is OK? No disproving of those possibilities is necessary in your view? Very strange….

  148. M.B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:22 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: How about if they naturalized five minutes before he was born?

    To me, the problem in this case is one of loyalties. The hypothetical child, just like the real Brack Obama, has no loyalty to the U.S.A. You see, even though Obama can’t, become emperor of Kenya, Dinesh D’Souza has proven in his new film, that BHOII still wants to turn the US into a Third-World country because he hates what America did to Africa and other developing nations.

  149. Scientist says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:26 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: To me, the problem in this case is one of loyalties.

    Mit Romney is a citizen of Mexico under Mexican law. He would also be a citizen of Canada if he were born there (Canada is suspiciously close to Detroit). Paul Ryan might be an Irish citizen. Where do THEIR loyalties lie?

  150. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:27 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: To me, the problem in this case is one of loyalties.

    But that is your opinion, there are just as many or more Americans who say you and Dinesh D’Souza are wrong.

    That’s why we have elections.

  151. M.B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:29 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: Mit Romney is a citizen of Mexico under Mexican law. He would also be a citizen of Canada if he were born there (Canada is suspiciously close to Detroit). Paul Ryan might be an Irish citizen. Where do THEIR loyalties lie?

    I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America. BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

  152. M.B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:31 am  (Quote)

    gorefan: But that is your opinion, there are just as many or more Americans who say you and Dinesh D’Souza are wrong.

    Yes, it is my opinion, but D’Souza’s film is pretty convincing and seems to be based on solid evidence and reasonable argument. It’s also selling a lot of tickets.

  153. gorefan says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:43 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: film is pretty convincing and seems to be based on solid evidence and reasonable argument.

    Have you researched the ‘evidence” yourself? Or do you take D’Souza’s word for it being true and not shaded by his bias?

  154. American Mzungu says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:52 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: You see, even though Obama can’t, become emperor of Kenya,

    In the parallel universe in which Kenya has an emperor, even you would be eligible. 🙂

  155. JoZeppy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:04 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: To me, the problem in this case is one of loyalties.

    Then you’re free not to vote for him (although I don’t think this was ever a real consideration for you irrespecitve of any imagined eligibility issues). However, you are not free to create a bogus definition of natural born citizen, that has no basis in the law, and expect anyone else to care.

    M.B.: hypothetical child, just like the real Brack Obama, has no loyalty to the U.S.A.

    So President Obama, isn’t going to have any loyalty to the country of his (and his mother’s) birth, where he spent the vast majority of his life, was educated, married, raised two children, and devoted his life to public service, but will have loyalty to a country he vitisted on a couple of occassions and the birth place of a father he hardly knew? Yes. I see how that would make perfect sense to you.

    M.B.: You see, even though Obama can’t, become emperor of Kenya, Dinesh D’Souza has proven in his new film, that BHOII still wants to turn the US into a Third-World country because he hates what America did to Africa and other developing nations.

    I think your fundamental problem here is that you really don’t seem to understand meaning of the word “proven.” D’Souza hasn’t “proven” anything. He did base a right wing smear job that seems to be based on his own personal issues than anything else…why exactly don’t you question Mr. D’Souza’s loyalties. You know…the guy actually born, and raised in a foreign country….since it’s obvious, there is no way on earth he could have any loyalty to this country, he must be part of a 5th column organization trying to destablize our country.

  156. Paper says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:06 am  (Quote)

    Even *if* that were true, it only would be a reason for you to vote against him. Such things would not make any candidate ineligible.

    See, for instance, the Communist Party’s candidates for president:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA#Presidential_tickets

    M.B.: I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America. BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

  157. American Mzungu says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:09 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: Dinesh D’Souza has proven in his new film, that BHOII still wants to turn the US into a Third-World country

    I thought the talking point was that Obama is trying to turn the U.S. into Europe. Are you trying to confuse us?

  158. JoZeppy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:12 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: Yes, it is my opinion, but D’Souza’s film is pretty convincing and seems to be based on solid evidence and reasonable argument. It’s also selling a lot of tickets.

    Yes…but when it comes down to it, your opinion doesn’t amount to a whole hell of a lot. The fact that you’re willing to swallow any B.S. that feeds your confirmation bias was evident when you came here spouting the bogs NBC definition. As for selling a lot of tickets….professional wrestling has always dominated cable tv ratings….does that make it real?

  159. JoZeppy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:18 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America.

    I would argue the exact opposite. Mitt Romney is only loyal to Mitt Romney, and will bend to whatever advances the well being of Mitt Romney. Ryan’s loyalties are equally suspect. His actions are clearly motivated by the goal of turning the US into a third world economy of cheap labor, so that the wealthy elites can continue their lives free from any government intervention, and he can create his Ayn Randian utopia (or distopia depending on where you fall in the division of wealth).

    M.B.: BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

    And exactly how has he done that? Which policies were those? Bailing out Wall Street? Saving the private US auto industry? Actually demanding that the US pay its financial obligation, not go into default?

  160. Scientist says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:19 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America.

    You mean when Romney went to France to serve the Mormon Church, rather than fight for his country in Vietnam? That showed a ton of loyalty. Not that he was going to get a lot of converts in France to a cult that forbids smoking and drinking coffee and alcohol anyway.

    Romney’s loyalty is primarily to the Almighty Dollar as far as I can see.

  161. Thomas Brown says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:19 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America. BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

    How do you find your way out of your house in the morning? Do you have any money, or have you sent it all to Nigerian Oil Ministers? Are your closets filled with “Miracle Cures”? Seriously, how gullible are you, exactly?

  162. Promised says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:20 am  (Quote)

    Now you tell me!

    I’m half-packed for Greece. But hey, let me change my ticket to Parallel Universe Kenya. Is changing universes safe for pregnant women? It’s got to be worth the risk. Just listen to the sound of: Emperor Gregory Kostis Palamas. My son.

    American Mzungu: In the parallel universe in which Kenya has an emperor, even you would be eligible.

  163. donna says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:27 am  (Quote)

    M.B.:

    it’s funny since birther dsouza interviewed brit author firstbrook in feb, 2011 on c-span – firstbrook spent the better part of a year in kenya interviewing and researching 27 generations of President Obama’s Kenyan ancestors – btw, obama’s family members are 7th day adventists – firstbrook discussed the improbability of a kenyan birth in 1961 and dsouza NEVER disputed that – apparently dsouza is only a birther with fools who believe the conspiracy

    the interview: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/297941-1

    Anti-Obama Documentary Cracks Top 10 At Weekend Box Office

    “2016: Obama’s America,” the documentary that takes a conspirtorial view of a potential second term for the president, grossed $6.2 million for the weekend beginning August 24 and ending August 26.

    The total puts the film, made by conservative commentator Dinesh D’Souza, in the top ten of the nationwide box office.

  164. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:28 am  (Quote)

    M.B.: even though Obama can’t, become emperor of Kenya,

    Kenya has an emperor? Since when?

    M.B.: he hates what America did to Africa and other developing nations.

    You are confusing us and Belgium.

    M.B.: D’Souza’s film is…selling a lot of tickets.

    Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. – H. L. Mencken

    M.B.: BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

    Obama is an egalitarian, like Ben Gurion. Better that, than two Christofascists. Here’s a fan of Rmoney and O’Ryan: “But for Sandra Stuart, a 59-year-old nurse from Ormond Beach, the most important issue was this: “Freedom to do what you want as long as it’s under the word of God. Traditional marriage.”

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/michele-bachmann-herman-cain-fire-up-tea-party-faithful-ahead-of-rnc/1248113

    Rmoney luvs Israel, except for the kibbitzim. Hypocrisy anyone?

    “Well, Mitt, the kibbutz may not be American but it is awfully reminiscent of the pioneering Mormon settlements of Utah, where even if you ignore husbands taking many wives (on the kibbutz, you just bedded other men’s wives)…”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/08/romney-s-kibbutz-aversion.html

    (on the kibbutz, you just bedded other men’s wives) – I can tell you it was elevated to a sport, just like in France. Anyone who goes ‘tut, tut’ is simply jealous.

  165. donna says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:32 am  (Quote)

    Trump No Longer Appearing At GOP Convention After Schedule Revised

    QUELLE DOMMAGE!!!!

    Donald Trump was bumped from the lineup at the Republican National Convention after planners had to rearrange the schedule when the first day of the convention was canceled due to Tropical Storm Isaac. For the past few weeks, Trump has been touting a surprise that he was preparing for the convention.

    Top Romney aide Russ Schriefer said Trump wasn’t speaking because could no longer make it on a conference call with reporters Monday.

    “It’s my understanding that Mr. Trump was in town yesterday,” Schriefer said. But with Monday was canceled, “he couldn’t make it the rest of the week.”

  166. Majority Will says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:37 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: Mit Romney is a citizen of Mexico under Mexican law.He would also be a citizen of Canada if he were born there (Canada is suspiciously close to Detroit).Paul Ryan might be an Irish citizen.Where do THEIR loyalties lie?

    And only one of the candidates has the vast majority of his $250 million fortune in foreign banks while paying foreign taxes and shipped thousands of jobs overseas while killing American companies.

    Those are some serious foreign loyalties.

  167. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:39 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: That showed a ton of loyalty. Not that he was going to get a lot of converts in France to a cult that forbids smoking and drinking coffee and alcohol anyway.

    No smoking, no coffee, no wine. That will go over in France, like a lead balloon.

    At least the Mormons allow a mistress plural marriage.

  168. The Magic M says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:48 am  (Quote)

    donna: For the past few weeks, Trump has been touting a surprise that he was preparing for the convention.

    […]

    But with Monday was canceled, “he couldn’t make it the rest of the week.”

    So the “big surprise” about the “ineligible President” in the current “constitutional crisis” wasn’t important enough that he could rearrange his busy schedule? Did he have an appointment to make an ass out of himself somewhere else that couldn’t be cancelled?

    Like Wowbagger, he’s probably decided to call every world leader of the universe ineligible, in person, and in alphabetical order. I hear his next appointment will be on Vurxnobble IX where he will claim the President of Shroomlam, B-arac-khu-sseino Bam-E, was born on the wrong side of their moon, Keny-B.

  169. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 12:01 pm  (Quote)

    The Mormon church is a business masquerading as a religion. The Mormon “church” owns the SLC NBC affiliate. They refuse to broadcast SNL, so it’s carried there by an independent on the UHF band. They censor SNL, because they do not believe in any of the 1st Amendment:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    The Mormon corporation church, along with the rest of the Christofascists, does not believe in separation of church and state, nor freedom of expression and speech. Just ask Robert Crumb. Crumb now lives in France. He was harassed by the moral squad.

    The Mormon church had the city of Salt Lake cede all of the public roads surrounding their main cathedral, to the church for $1.00. Yes, you read that right. Several million dollars of real estate for only $1.00.

    The Mormon church has an income tax office, just like a mini-IRS. When a person sends in his 10% tithe, he has to include a copy of his 1040, to prove he is giving 10% of his gross income.

    That’s why Rmoney does not want to release his returns. Any guesses why?

  170. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 27, 2012 at 12:25 pm  (Quote)

    M.B.: Oh, I know just how you feel about the Founding Fathers and their intent and “lower definitions”! Can you imagine that some people even think the 2nd Amendment means everybody can own their own gun! Even more than one if they want! How silly. What if like there were crazy people who went around shooting people in theaters???

    Obviously nobody thinks it is OK for loyal,patriotic Americans to get gunned down like that, and yet here is that evil NRA, and conservatives saying it is all right for everybody to own guns!

    See how that comes out? You can take just about any right or any law and trot out some ridiculous “Parade of Horribles” that could ensue. With guns, it is even true. But I am from Texas, and you can probably figure out how I really feel about guns. The downside of rights is that people will misuse them. The upside is that most people don’t.

    Take your example above. Give the kid a name – – – how about Ronald Reagan??? Are you saying Ronald Reagan shouldn’t have been President??? The kind of argument you are making leads to all kinds of silliness like that. Why don’t you just try determining what the law on natural born citizenship is by READING THE LAW, instead of inventing bogeymen???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  171. American Mzungu says:
    August 27, 2012 at 12:54 pm  (Quote)

    Promised: I’m half-packed for Greece. But hey, let me change my ticket to Parallel Universe Kenya. Is changing universes safe for pregnant women? It’s got to be worth the risk. Just listen to the sound of: Emperor Gregory Kostis Palamas. My son.

    No need to cancel the Greek ticket. We are talking about a parallel universe in which there is an emporer in Kenya. You’ve got to have a plan for this universe. I suggest contacting the birther who enlightened us about the Mars Time Travel program—I think it was called DARPA. They identify and train future Presidents. I’m sure they could also identify and train future Emperors of Kenya. You might also contact Dinesh D’Souza. He seems to communicate with parallel universes.

    Any morning sickness yet? Any word from “gun and run” Palamas?

  172. Promised says:
    August 27, 2012 at 2:03 pm  (Quote)

    No, no word. For a second, I thought you might be trying to fix me up with that Tony guy. He holds no candle to my Palamas. Pal talked about probabilities and knowledge. These other guys prattle and prance without substance. Pal had equations!

    Thank you for your thoughtfulness!

    American Mzungu:

    Any morning sickness yet?Any word from “gun and run” Palamas?

  173. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 27, 2012 at 2:35 pm  (Quote)

    Source?

    misha: The Mormon church has an income tax office, just like a mini-IRS. When a person sends in his 10% tithe, he has to include a copy of his 1040, to prove he is giving 10% of his gross income.

  174. Northland10 says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:00 pm  (Quote)

    A few years ago, during a chat in the sacristy, somebody mentioned a parish doing something similar with asking for financial statements during the stewardship drive. Not sure if it was true but we were quite horrified.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Source?

  175. Sudoku says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:49 pm  (Quote)

    The case in Alaska, Epperly v Obama, et al, has been dismissed with prejudice.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/104101833/AK-Epperly-2012-08-24-ORDER-Dismissing-Case-With-Prejudice

  176. Jules says:
    August 27, 2012 at 4:57 pm  (Quote)

    M.B.: Suppose, if the Emperor of Japan was in the US during an official visit and impregnated a beautiful US college student and secretly promised to marry her when he could work it all out with his family back in Japan, and meanwhile she delivers the child on US soil.

    If the child is born in the United States and he is subject to US jurisdiction, then he is a natural born citizen. There would be the question as to whether the child might share the Emperor’s full diplomatic immunity, but my understanding is that such immunity would not apply if the mother had no such immunity and paternity was not even formally established at the time of birth. (Here in England, an unmarried father has no “parental responsibility” for a child unless he is listed on the birth certificate or there is later a parental responsibility agreement or parental responsibility order. I don’t know enough to say what the position as to parental responsibility would be in the US.)

    M.B.: The Emperor’s family refuses to allow the child the right of ascencion and therefore the child is never adopted by the japanese Emperor, but he loves him, and he and the child’s mother love him and raise him to be the Emperor of Japan anyway, while being careful to maintain the child’s US citizenship by having the mother join the US military and then be stationed in Japan.

    I don’t understand why you presume the need for the mother to be in the military for the child’s citizenship to be maintained. Someone who acquires US citizenship by virtue of birth within the US cannot have such citizenship taken away for simply living abroad otherwise than in the military. (Even if the parents wanted the child to relinquish US citizenship, this could only happen if the child, on becoming old enough to make the decision for himself, went to the US consulate to make an oath of renunciation; if he were a minor when trying to renounce citizenship, then the consular officer would have to be satisfied that the child was making his own decision free from duress or undue influence.)

    M.B.: When the child realizes that he cannot ever be the Emperor of Japan he leaves the US militay base in Japan and then comes to the United States to be raised by his mother’s parents. He grows up and decides to be a politician: his great longing is to become the President of the United States so that he can force his family in Japan to make him the Emperor or risk a war with the US.

    Now tell me should this man be allowed to run for he office of President? Is he a “natural born citizen”?

    The answer is yes. The child can is eligible for the Presidency, provided he acquired US citizenship at the moment of birth, has been a resident of the US for at least 14 years, and is aged 35 or older.

    The definition of “natural born” in the US comes fom English common law. English common law follows jus soli when it comes to acquisition of nationality at birth. (The UK has since departed from its tradition of jus soli. However, we can safely say that the writers of the relevant clauses in the Constitution did not consider the British Nationality Act 1981.)

    The fact that some people tried to groom someone for a foreign position does not change the status of a person under US law. If foreign nations could so determine someone’s status under US citizenship law, then North Korea would be able to exercise veto power over any US Presidential candidate by enacting legislation to make the candidate a North Korean citizen and providing that those made North Korean citizens against their will be unable to relinquish such status.

    M.B.: Obama’s “dad” lived and died in Kenya, Obama’s mom lived most of her adult life abroad and only returned to the US to die. Their loyalties are highly suspect, and so are Obama’s. That is why the US Constitution says “No Person except a natural born citizen…shall be eligible to the Office of President”.

    All this is quite irrelevant. The Constitution does not establish a test of loyalty or residence requirement for a President’s parents. It concerns itself with the President’s acquisition of citizenship at birth and minimum residence in the US of fourteen years; Obama unquestionably meets these requirements. In fact, as the Constitution requires a minimum period of residence of only 14 years, it clearly makes eligible someone who was born in the US and spent the majority of his life abroad.

    You talk about the “loyalties” of Obama and his family not in terms of legal allegiance, but rather in terms of personal understanding of and love of the US. In so doing, you are clearly confusing the constitutional concept of natural-born citizenship with your highly subjective political perceptions and opinions. The former is a simple and straightforward legal test and the latter is a matter of judgment to be decided by each voter.

  177. Keith says:
    August 27, 2012 at 7:13 pm  (Quote)

    M.B.: I think that the history of their actions and decisions demonstrates that they are loyal to America. BHOII, on the other hand, has demonstrated that his loyalty is to an ideological framework based on bringing down the U.S. to the level of a third-world country.

    If that is so, he is doing a pretty bad job of it.

    I notice a strong tendency in your posts of denying that the sky is blue:

    1. D’Souza is proof that about 400 years of American history and about 230 years of American Constitutional history have been wrongly understood for that entire time, not to mention that the framers didn’t know what their motivations were at the time. If anybody denies these simple facts they are just opinions, and dangerous un-American opinions at that.

    2. By fostering an environment where the private sector rebounds from the most rapid loss of jobs in history, in the shortest time in history, Obama is a dangerous socialist that wants to destroy America. Because the stock market, considered the primary indicator of the health of the capitalist economy agreed with the Presidents recovery methodology, that proves Obama is a dangerous socialist that wants to destroy America.

    3. On the other hand the President that fostered the environment where the U.S. very nearly became a 3rd world country was a good ‘ol boy doing things the American way and building a greater America. The President whose political ideology, when put into practice was putting Americans out of work at a record rate was a good ‘ol boy doing things the American way and building a greater America. The President whose political ideology, when put into practice was bankrupting State and Local governments, allowing infrastructure, built up over 300 years of hard American work, to fall into disrepair and uselessness was on the right track and his policies should have been expanded. The President whose political ideology, when put into practice was burying ordinary Americans life savings under unfathomable debt, causing them to lose their homes, their health, and their lives, was on the right track and his policies should have been expanded.

    4. When the framers wrote:

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    what they really meant was:

    We the white, male, large landowners and merchants of the United States, in order to form a more perfect private income stream, establish justice for the rich, insure domestic tranquility within the confines of our perpetually male dominated households, provide for the common defense of our income stream, promote the general welfare of our private interests, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our direct patrilineal heirs, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America, the true understanding of which will remain hidden for 230 years until the internet is invented.

    P.S. All that stuff we put in there about no religious tests or protecting peoples religion – just joking. It is really important that the Government be controlled by the right religion. Hozanna to the FSM and its MtPU.

  178. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 27, 2012 at 7:13 pm  (Quote)

    Gordon of Khartoon Falls! The Epperly lawsuit was dismissed:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/104101833/AK-Epperly-2012-08-24-ORDER-Dismissing-Case-With-Prejudice

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    (I think Tracy Fair was dismissed also)

  179. misha says:
    August 27, 2012 at 7:19 pm  (Quote)

    @ Lupin: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/military-terror-plot-murd_n_1833435.html

    LUDOWICI, Ga. — Four Army soldiers based in southeast Georgia killed a former comrade and his girlfriend to protect an anarchist militia group they formed that stockpiled assault weapons and plotted a range of anti-government attacks, prosecutors told a judge Monday.

    Prosecutors in rural Long County, near the sprawling Army post Fort Stewart, said the militia group of active and former U.S. military members spent at least $87,000 buying guns and bomb components. They allege the group was serious enough to kill two people – former soldier Michael Roark and his 17-year-old girlfriend, Tiffany York – by shooting them in the woods last December in order to keep its plans secret.

  180. El Diablo Negro says:
    August 27, 2012 at 8:05 pm  (Quote)

    misha: the militia group of active and former U.S. military members spent at least $87,000 buying guns and bomb components.

    Umm…$87K for guns and bomb material? I think there is more than these four to worry about.

    “The prosecutor said the militia group had big plans. It plotted to take over Fort Stewart by seizing its ammunition control point and talked of bombing the Forsyth Park fountain in nearby Savannah”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/military-terror-plot-murd_n_1833435.html

    Would need more than four to take over Fort Stewart.

  181. Paper says:
    August 27, 2012 at 8:07 pm  (Quote)

    Well, found this:

    Interesting at least

    http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-45077/0-0-0-48278.html

    b) United States born child of citizen mother and alien diplomat farther eligible . A child born in the United States of a citizen mother and an alien father what was a foreign diplomatic official accredited to the United States was deemed to have been born outside the United States for the purpose of naturalization under the above 1940 provisions. 2/

  182. Majority Will says:
    August 27, 2012 at 9:48 pm  (Quote)

    (excerpt) “Everything Romney and his surrogates say about Obama gets treated as some kind of offense. Not understanding America. Not knowing how to be an American. Growing up in Indonesia. Thinking like a foreigner. Declaring war on our religion. Not sharing our values. Not appreciating our Anglo-Saxon heritage. Not investigating Muslims. Not having a trusted birth certificate. It’s gotten to the point where Romney can’t open his mouth without somebody misconstruing his motives. Poor guy.”

    Good read: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/saletan-is-mitt-romney-appealing-to-bigots-1.3931440

  183. Dave B. says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:18 pm  (Quote)

    I googled this incredibly goofy birther commenting over on the Huffington Post and found this item:

    Robert D Marshner everyone wants to stop the government everyone talks about voting them out like that’s going to change anything you want to change the government and I mean really change what their doing and I mean all of them it’s easy . This is all we have to do Cut off their supply lines we need to reroute all ships and trucks and Plains and Trains so nothing goes to the east coast we stop supplying them with Food Goods and Fuel we show them who really is in charge instead of protesting them we do something about them .. If we don’t no matter who you vote in we will still have this problem we have to show them by taking away their food clothing fuel and everything else … they will stop if we get together and reroute everything away from the east coast and Washington D.C.

    http://www.facebook-statistics.com/page/Food-Trucks-DC/2306488

  184. Steve says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:29 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    (excerpt) “Everything Romney and his surrogates say about Obama gets treated as some kind of offense. Not understanding America. Not knowing how to be an American. Growing up in Indonesia. Thinking like a foreigner. Declaring war on our religion. Not sharing our values. Not appreciating our Anglo-Saxon heritage. Not investigating Muslims. Not having a trusted birth certificate. It’s gotten to the point where Romney can’t open his mouth without somebody misconstruing his motives. Poor guy.”

    I can’t tell if he’s serious or if he’s being sarcastic.

    Good read: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/saletan-is-mitt-romney-appealing-to-bigots-1.3931440

  185. Northland10 says:
    August 27, 2012 at 10:33 pm  (Quote)

    On the whole foreign raised meme mentioned by MB, even at the minimum age to be eligible to take office (35), you would still only need to be resident for 2/5 of your whole life. In short, somebody can be born here, be raised elsewhere, return at 21, and be eligible at 35. The birthers can whine all they want on that one but the founders intent is quite clear.

  186. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 28, 2012 at 12:28 am  (Quote)

    Yes.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: (I think Tracy Fair was dismissed also)

  187. Sudoku says:
    August 28, 2012 at 1:14 am  (Quote)

    Exactly. Take McCain, for instance. He was born in Panama to two citizen parents, an NBC. He could have lived in any foreign country, returned to the US at 51 and run for president at 65. That, apparently, would not be a problem, no “divided loyalties”.

    Northland10:
    On the whole foreign raised meme mentioned by MB, even at the minimum age to be eligible to take office (35), you would still only need to be resident for 2/5 of your whole life.In short, somebody can be born here, be raised elsewhere, return at 21, and be eligible at 35.The birthers can whine all they want on that one but the founders intent is quite clear.

  188. JPotter says:
    August 28, 2012 at 1:19 am  (Quote)

    In light of OrlyWorld’s rep as plague central, I give you …

    Religious Sites Have More Trojans Than Naughty Ones</i

    Just sayin’ 😛

  189. G says:
    August 28, 2012 at 1:58 am  (Quote)

    I took it as a Stephen Colbert style of deadpan sarcasm…

    …But then again, sadly, too many RWNJ seem to think and speak exactly like that too… so it has become difficult these days to tell when Poe’s Law is in effect or not…

    Steve: I can’t tell if he’s serious or if he’s being sarcastic.
    Good read: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/saletan-is-mitt-romney-appealing-to-bigots-1.3931440

  190. Lupin says:
    August 28, 2012 at 2:47 am  (Quote)

    G: …But then again, sadly, too many RWNJ seem to think and speak exactly like that too… so it has become difficult these days to tell when Poe’s Law is in effect or not…

    Virtually impossible sometimes.

    And it is confusing to think that today (IMHO) your best two SERIOUS pundits, all media included, are Jon Stewart and Bill Maher (with Krugman a 3rd).

  191. Lupin says:
    August 28, 2012 at 2:57 am  (Quote)

    misha: Prosecutors in rural Long County, near the sprawling Army post Fort Stewart, said the militia group of active and former U.S. military members spent at least $87,000 buying guns and bomb components. They allege the group was serious enough to kill two people – former soldier Michael Roark and his 17-year-old girlfriend, Tiffany York – by shooting them in the woods last December in order to keep its plans secret.

    Breivik would be impressed, I’m sure.

    MB’s insane discussion about Obama’s divided loyalties above reminds me of a discussion I had with a Russian businessman who blamed Gorbachev for destroying the Soviet union. (Sadly a widespread notion.)

    I tried to explain to him the USSR post-Brezhnev was doomed (and arguably, doomed even before that but that’s another discussion) and Gorby only managed a peaceful transition into a new state, for which he should be praised. Any blame for the collapse of the old state should go to the hardliners before him.

    This is very much the same here: whatever happens to the US of A is objectively the fault of Bush and generally the Republicans, all the way back to Reagan (although I don’t forget it was Clinton who removed the glass-steagall but I think it at the behest of the conservatives.

    To blame Obama for managing or trying to manage a smooth transition is ridiculous. The man is obviously doing the best he can with a very bad hand.

  192. Lupin says:
    August 28, 2012 at 3:26 am  (Quote)

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/08/27/mitts-dog-whistles-are-reaching-his-target-audience/

    And the birthers tell us it’s not about race!

    (By the time I caught up with this, FB already took the image down.)

  193. Lupin says:
    August 28, 2012 at 3:31 am  (Quote)

    This is where you are right now:

    http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/08/nobody-believes-me-when-i-tell-them-how-wacka-wacka-paul-ryans-views-on-monetary-policy-are.html

    Your “serious” candidate for VP of one of your two major parties endorses not just gold-backed currency, but using gold coins instead of credit cards or checks or regular currency.

    Of course, sensible centrists will soon agree on the “compromise position” that paper money backed by gold is the most “serious” choice, heralding the return to My-Fairyland-1800s they seek.

  194. Lupin says:
    August 28, 2012 at 3:34 am  (Quote)

    @ Misha:

    I’ll top yours:

    http://gawker.com/5938288/leader-of-army-plot-to-assassinate-obama-apparently-attended-the-2008-republican-convention-as-a-page

    Isaac Aguigui, the Army private and alleged ringleader of a plot to assassinate Barack Obama and “take over” Ft. Stewart in Georgia, apparently served as a page at the 2008 Republican National Convention in Minneapolis.

  195. Majority Will says:
    August 28, 2012 at 5:52 am  (Quote)

    Steve:

    I can’t tell if he’s serious or if he’s being sarcastic.

    Good read: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/saletan-is-mitt-romney-appealing-to-bigots-1.3931440

    This might help you.

    William Saletan is the national correspondent at Slate.com. Saletan gained recognition in the fall of 2004 with nearly daily columns covering the ups and downs of the Presidential race. He currently writes the ‘Human Nature’ column. Previously, he wrote ‘Frame Game’ which analyzed the way current events are spun by politicians and the media and ‘Ballot Box’, a column devoted to politics and policy.

    A self described “liberal Republican”, Saletan came out strongly against the re-election candidacy of George W. Bush. He investigated the source of his disenchantment with today’s Republican Party in a series of dispatches from the 2004 Republican Convention.

    (source: wiki)

    I appreciate unconventional, critical commentary that challenges people to think.

    Here is another good article from Saletan:

    “How Did I Get Iraq Wrong?”
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/03/how_did_i_get_iraq_wrong_4.html

  196. G says:
    August 28, 2012 at 11:09 am  (Quote)

    Wow, that “Rope” image was reprehensible! That is exactly what these smarmy smear merchants are encouraging and whipping up with their irresponsible and intentional dog-whistles to the bigots.

    The last paragraph of that article summed it up well:

    This is the kind of bold hatred and racism that Mitt Romney has decided he needs to embrace as his only pathway to victory. Unlike McCain and even George W. Bush, it is clear that Mitt Romney has NO redeeming qualities what-so-ever. He is just a complete @ssho1e. Full stop.

    Indeed!

    Lupin: http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/08/27/mitts-dog-whistles-are-reaching-his-target-audience/And the birthers tell us it’s not about race!(By the time I caught up with this, FB already took the image down.)

  197. donna says:
    August 28, 2012 at 4:42 pm  (Quote)

    Tampa 2012: The Birthers Cometh (With Video)

    his ct ss# hasn’t been investigated yet?

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/rnc-tampa-birthers-angry-patriots-david-lipinoga

  198. sfjeff says:
    August 28, 2012 at 5:56 pm  (Quote)

    misha: The Mormon church is a business masquerading as a religion. The Mormon “church” owns the SLC NBC affiliate. They refuse to broadcast SNL, so it’s carried there by an independent on the UHF band. They censor SNL, because they do not believe in any of the 1st Amendment:“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”The Mormon corporation church, along with the rest of the Christofascists, does not believe in separation of church and state, nor freedom of expression and speech. Just ask Robert Crumb. Crumb now lives in France. He was harassed by the moral squad. The Mormon church had the city of Salt Lake cede all of the public roads surrounding their main cathedral, to the church for $1.00. Yes, you read that right. Several million dollars of real estate for only $1.00.The Mormon church has an income tax office, just like a mini-IRS. When a person sends in his 10% tithe, he has to include a copy of his 1040, to prove he is giving 10% of his gross income. That’s why Rmoney does not want to release his returns. Any guesses why?

    Sorry Misha- love your commentary normally- but I am not buying all of this.

    Reminds me to much of the folks who argue that Islam is not a real religion.

  199. Rickey says:
    August 28, 2012 at 6:55 pm  (Quote)

    Orly found an Indiana attorney to sponsor her pro hac vice application. She apparently was required to list her home address in Laguna Niguel, because it is in her filing. I won’t publish it here (although it has shown up in many of her other filings, including her candidate filings), but I never really paid attention before. i took a look at some aerial photos and it is huge. It sits on the edge of a canyon and has a rooftop deck, a swimming pool and a hot tub. According to Zillow, the property is worth $2.8 million-$3.5 million. She and her husband pay $30K per year in property taxes.

    Yet she begs for contributions and frequent flier miles for her minions. Shameless.

    Incidentally, her birthday is on Thursday.

  200. misha says:
    August 28, 2012 at 7:00 pm  (Quote)

    sfjeff: Sorry Misha- love your commentary normally- but I am not buying all of this.

    Utah NBC affiliate owned by Mormon church won’t air ‘The New Normal,’ show featuring gay couple – http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/utah-nbc-affiliate-owned-mormon-church-air-new-normal-show-featuring-gay-couple-article-1.1146094

    The station also will not broadcast SNL.

    SLC deeded public road to Mormon church: First Unitarian Church v. Salt Lake City Corporation – http://www.acluutah.org/msreply.htm

    People who have left the Mormon church have told me they were expected to prove their 10% tithe. I have heard the same claim from several people, who said they mailed a 1040 copy to Salt Lake. One or two could be people who were angry, but it was consistent.

    Brigham Young had 55 wives:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

  201. misha says:
    August 28, 2012 at 7:16 pm  (Quote)

    @ Lupin:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/us/lubbock-official-tom-head-stirs-city-with-remark.html

    “He is going to try to hand over the sovereignty of the United States to the U.N.,” Mr. Head said on Fox 34 last week. “O.K., what’s going to happen when that happens? I’m thinking worst-case scenario: civil unrest, civil disobedience, civil war, maybe. And we’re not talking just a few riots here and demonstrations. We’re talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms and get rid of the guy.”

    After the hearing, Mr. Gatewood, an agricultural contractor, identified himself as the counsel general of the interim government of the Republic of Texas, which he said was not active at the moment. “If secession happens,” he said, “it’ll be active in a split second.”

  202. M.B. says:
    August 28, 2012 at 8:38 pm  (Quote)

    And now, from the lighter side . . . if you’re a dog owner or dog lover, you’ll get a lot of laughs from this website: http://dog-shaming.com/

    Enjoy!

  203. nbc says:
    August 28, 2012 at 11:06 pm  (Quote)

    A poster going by the moniker gsgs has finally unraveled the mystery of the rectangular objects found in the long form birth certificate. By realizing that the algorithm works in blocks of 8×8 (a typical JPEG block) he has shown how the top and right hand borders align perfectly with such 8×8 boundaries, while the left and lower borders line up with the bitmap, basically the bitmap touches these sides.

    Furthermore, he has also shown how the x-ray is explained, the coloring behind the actual letters. This is again related to the 8×8 algorithm where the missing colors are assigned an average value.

    While gsgs came to Obamabirthbook as someone skeptical of the rebuttals by John and others, these findings are quite relevant and required some innovative thinking. I am quite impressed by his diligence in unraveling these artifacts.

    Read more here

  205. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 28, 2012 at 11:32 pm  (Quote)

    I’ve noticed that most birthers aren’t able to call Obama by his name at all. Its as if it causes them physical pain to pay the man even that much respect.

  206. donna says:
    August 28, 2012 at 11:33 pm  (Quote)

    Jonathan Capehart:

    I met a black Mormon birther Ron Paul delegate

    “They should support the Republican presidential ticket because the focus is on bringing back freedom, not fascism and communism,” Johnson said. “Obama was raised a communist. His parents were communists. His grandparents were communists. What do you expect from him?” I challenged him on that last assertion, which garnered this reply. “Yes, they were CIA.”

    Then, without my asking, Johnson volunteered, “Was he born in Kenya? He said he was born in Kenya.” And the long-form birth certificate that President Obama released last year? What did Johnson make of that? “It does not appear to be real. No. I could go on and on. That’s radical enough,” he said with a chuckle as our mind-blowing conversation ended.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/i-met-a-black-mormon-birther-ron-paul-delegate/2012/08/28/620679ea-f168-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_blog.html

  207. Dave B. says:
    August 29, 2012 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    Hey, Doc, you know that goofy article over on the Huffington Post right now about how President Obama would still be a citizen if he’d been born in Kenya? They wouldn’t let me say this in a reply to the author, who’s really grinding the edge of that Occam fellow’s razor:

    “Regarding your out-of-wedlock claim, on what basis do you assert that “Obama’s father hadn’t divorced his Kenyan wife”? For that matter, on what basis would you assert that President Obama’s father had a Kenyan wife from whom an official divorce would have been necessary?
    You are aware of the position of the United States re voidable and void marriages; your hypothetical would not apply in the case of President Obama.
    Mr. Russnow, there are many of us who have taken a far more substantial interest in challenging the untruths and misinformation spread by the birthers than you have; and we realize that facts, truth and real information are the proper tools to use to weed them out. We follow the truth wherever it leads. We don’t try to lead it. Unfortunately, you’re seeking to mold the truth into what you would have it be, and not what it is. The simple truth that President Obama was born in the United States is entirely sufficient.
    These are the real thing:
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/no-no-no-cnn/
    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/about/
    Debunkers like these, and those of us who are fortunate enough to claim even a minor association with them, are appalled by the kind of misinformation you’re spreading.”

    Was I being too presumptuous to speak for anybody other than myself? I do honestly feel that the truth, and a high regard for it, like it or not, is what ultimately separates us from the birthers. It just utterly galls me when somebody tries to wrangle the truth into their own corral.

  208. bgansel9 says:
    August 29, 2012 at 3:56 am  (Quote)

    Just a heads up that Paul Penzone won the Democratic primary in the Maricopa County Sheriff’s race tonight and he will face Arpaio in the general election. 😉

  210. The Magic M says:
    August 29, 2012 at 7:53 am  (Quote)

    misha: After the hearing, Mr. Gatewood, an agricultural contractor, identified himself as the counsel general of the interim government of the Republic of Texas, which he said was not active at the moment. “If secession happens,” he said, “it’ll be active in a split second.”

    Y’know, the scary thing is those people actually work towards such goals.
    In my country, we have our share of loons who claim they are the head of some provisional government as well, but those are just idiots who love to bear an impressive-sounding title, or send angry letters to judges ruling against them, signed “Secretary of Justice, Free Republic of Whatever”.
    It seems you have people who actually work towards secession.
    (And who the hell elected this “interim government” anyway?)

  211. James M says:
    August 29, 2012 at 10:28 am  (Quote)

    misha: When a person sends in his 10% tithe, he has to include a copy of his 1040

    This is misinformation. The truth is bad enough (and hard enough to find out, from outside the church.)

    The tithing arrangement in LDS has all the trappings of a contract:
    1. Something of value is exchanged by each party — the “Temple Recommend”, which is essentially a ticket, in exchange for valuable consideration (money.)
    2. A mutual agreement — this agreement is reinforced periodically in the “tithing settlement” process.
    3. Lawful purpose — Donating money to a church is not against the law, nor is asking for donations… (worth noting that a demand for the disclosure of federal tax forms cannot in all cases be lawfully complied with.)

    As a contract, it is probably enforceable.

  212. misha says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:25 am  (Quote)

    James M: This is misinformation.

    Those who told me had left in anger, so it was embellished, exaggerated, or invented. It sounded plausible, so I believed it.

    I know it’s hearsay, and has the trappings of an urban myth, but those who told me all said they showed a 1040 copy.

    What have you been able to find out?

    Slightly OT, but apropos: the Mormon church opened a research center in Israel, after signing an agreement not to proselytize Jews. They are determined to prove the American Indians are the lost tribe of Israel.

    Lost tribe? Everyone is here – trust me.

    How have we survived all these centuries? Comedians. Thousands of comedians.

  213. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:58 am  (Quote)

    For those not familiar with Mormon mythology…

    Mormons believe that a group of Jews came to the new world in a magic boat, and became the ancestors of the American Indians. They were turned red as punishment for something, I forget what. In the Book of Mormon, Jesus visits these Jews in America and preaches the Gospel to them. The stories of the Jewish migration and divine visitation were supposedly written on golden plates in a language called “Reformed Egyptian,” the plates later discovered by Mormon founder Joseph Smith in a mound in upstate New York. Smith translated the plates using two mystical stones (Urim and Thummim) that he attached to his eyeglasses. The plates were subsequently taken up into Heaven. I think the Mormons still have the stones and the eyeglasses. The Book of Mormon is Smith’s alleged translation.

    Mormonism is founded on the revelation of Smith and a group of witnesses who reported seeing the plates or at least feeling them in a cloth bag.

    The lost tribes of Israel also play a role in British Israelism and Christian Identity, that say that the Aryan race are the true Jews, the lost tribes, and that the “Jews” in Israel are some other [insert derogatory name here] race.

    misha: Slightly OT, but apropos: the Mormon church opened a research center in Israel, after signing an agreement not to proselytize Jews. They are determined to prove the American Indians are the lost tribe of Israel.

  214. misha says:
    August 29, 2012 at 12:07 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: the plates later discovered by Mormon founder Joseph Smith in a mound in upstate New York.

    In his field, in Palmyra, New York. What a coincidence.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Smith translated the plates using two mystical stones (Urim and Thummim)

    Also, Tomium, Dickium and Harryum.

  215. Lupin says:
    August 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm  (Quote)

    The Magic M: In my country, we have our share of loons who claim they are the head of some provisional government as well, but those are just idiots who love to bear an impressive-sounding title, or send angry letters to judges ruling against them, signed “Secretary of Justice, Free Republic of Whatever”.

    Personally I have no problem with regions who want to secede, such as Scotland, Corsica or the Basque — I wouldn’t necessarily label a movement as crazy because they want their independence. (Personally I think it’s the wrong way to go, but that’s another debate.)

  216. donna says:
    August 29, 2012 at 1:11 pm  (Quote)

    Christopher Monckton of Brenchley calls GOP treasonous for eligibility inaction

    the real criminals are those in high office who know Mr. Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery but willfully, sullenly do absolutely nothing about it.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/08/lord-christopher-monckton-gop.html

  217. misha says:
    August 29, 2012 at 1:33 pm  (Quote)

    donna: Christopher Monckton of Brenchley calls GOP treasonous for eligibility inaction

    Monckton is Sasha Baron Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w833cAs9EN0

    Those people really are gullible. I left a comment, not approved, telling them they had fallen for the ultimate practical joke.

  218. misha says:
    August 29, 2012 at 2:13 pm  (Quote)

    Report: Black CNN Camerawoman Had Nuts Thrown at Her at GOP Convention, Assailant Shouted “This Is How We Feed Animals”

    http://gawker.com/5938737/report-black-cnn-camerawoman-had-nuts-thrown-at-her-at-gop-convention-assailant-shouted-this-is-how-we-feed-animals?tag=rnc-tampa

  219. The Magic M says:
    August 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: For those not familiar with Mormon mythology…

    At least now I know where Hubbard got his ideas from…

  220. The Magic M says:
    August 29, 2012 at 3:13 pm  (Quote)

    Lupin: I wouldn’t necessarily label a movement as crazy because they want their independence

    Since most modern countries don’t tread on minorities, the old “we have too few rights” excuse doesn’t work anymore.
    In my opinion, 99% of such independence movements are fueled by power-hungry local idiots who cannot accept that they will never have the majority to rule the entire country, so they want their own small country where they represent the new majority.
    It’s as if the mayor of New York said “I can never be President of the United States, so let’s gain independence so I can be President and God-Emperor of New York instead”.

  221. gorefan says:
    August 29, 2012 at 4:15 pm  (Quote)

    The Magic M: At least now I know where Hubbard got his ideas from

    So does that mean in 180 years Scientology will be as legitimate as the Morman Religion is today?

  222. gorefan says:
    August 29, 2012 at 6:39 pm  (Quote)

    M.B.: D’Souza’s film is pretty convincing

    Not surprising. M.B.’s favorite film maker is caught lying.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-anti-obama-film-muddy-facts-072153385–politics.html

  223. Thomas Brown says:
    August 29, 2012 at 7:10 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: So does that mean in 180 years Scientology will be as legitimate as the Morman Religion is today?

    Thanks a bunch. For a few seconds there my blood turned to icewater.

  224. Thomas Brown says:
    August 29, 2012 at 7:14 pm  (Quote)

    donna:
    Christopher Monckton of Brenchley calls GOP treasonous for eligibility inaction

    the real criminals are those in high office who know Mr. Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery but willfully, sullenly do absolutely nothing about it.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/08/lord-christopher-monckton-gop.html

    You know, if you take one of those hack-your-brain courses that promise to double your IQ, some day you could be a half-wit.

  225. donna says:
    August 29, 2012 at 7:14 pm  (Quote)

    M.B.: D’Souza’s film is pretty convincing

    on c-span, dsouza interviewed brit author firstbrook about his exploration of 27 generations of President Obama’s Kenyan ancestors – dsouza NEVER once disputed the improbability of obama being born in kenya, his family’s 7th day adventist religion nor anything else refuting the birthers

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/297941-1

    Thomas Brown:

    are you referring to MOI? i quoted the article

  226. gorefan says:
    August 29, 2012 at 9:40 pm  (Quote)

    Money quotes from Judge Thomas McPhee

    “She offers as evidence the musings of the infamous Arizona sheriff joe Arpiao, supported by the report by a part-time computer programmer last employed in May, 2007, who examined a copy of the pdf image of President Obama’s birth certificate and concluded that the original was forged.”

    “I can conceive of no reason why this lawsuit was brought, except to join the chorus of noise in that blogosphere. The case is dismissed”. Judge Thomas McPhee

  227. Dave B. says:
    August 29, 2012 at 9:48 pm  (Quote)

    Didn’t that business about giving a hoot what guys like Chris Monckton think get cleared up a while back?

    donna:
    Christopher Monckton of Brenchley calls GOP treasonous for eligibility inaction

  228. Thomas Brown says:
    August 29, 2012 at 10:08 pm  (Quote)

    donna:
    Christopher Monckton of Brenchley calls GOP treasonous for eligibility inaction

    the real criminals are those in high office who know Mr. Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery but willfully, sullenly do absolutely nothing about it.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/08/lord-christopher-monckton-gop.html

    Dammit! I did it again! I think it’s something about your formatting… You started with what seems to be a headline, and I took the quoted text for your comment reinforcing the headline because of the lack of quotation marks and the fact that so many trolls follow up with a link to ORYR… Plus the non-idiosyncratic handle ‘donna’…

    OK. Also (mainly?) because I wasn’t paying adequate attention, I’ve over-revved my brain and toasted my memory circuits, and so failed to remember the last 6 times I’ve done this…

    Maybe I should have my hand tatooed with “Donna is not a Birther.”

    Apology is once again in order. Mea cupla. Mea maxima culpa.

  229. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm  (Quote)

    Where can I get the full text?

    gorefan: Money quotes from Judge Thomas McPhee

  230. Keith says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:01 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    Didn’t that business about giving a hoot what guys like Chris Monckton think get cleared up a while back?

    I can’t figure out why a ‘Patriotic American’ would give a damn about the opinion of a privileged, British, ne’er-do-well, whose only claim to ‘authority’ on any subject is that his father was the son of a son of someone who did a favor for the Crown (advisor to Edward during abdication crisis).

    Isn’t there a missing Constitutional amendment that requires anyone with an hereditary title be neutered and imprisoned if they dare set foot on U.S. territory? I’m sure I read it in a Texas text book or something.

  232. gorefan says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:08 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Where can I get the full text?

    The Fogbow’s Jack Ryan

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/104349709/WA-2012-08-29-JvSoS-Reed-Court-Opinion-and-Decision

    It’s a duesy.

  233. Keith says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:24 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: It’s a duesy.

    Understatement of the year.

    That document has enough ‘quotes of the day’ to keep Doc going for weeks.

    Judge McPhee is my hero of the day!

  234. Dave B. says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:58 pm  (Quote)

    We all get caught in the crossfire sometimes.

    Thomas Brown:

    Maybe I should have my hand tatooed with “Donna is not a Birther.”

  235. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 29, 2012 at 11:59 pm  (Quote)

    Dr.C:

    I have pulled out the good stuff about Birthers, but not the Washington state specific parts, in text form. I had to type a lot of this in, so this may save you some time:

    The birther movement has been a subplot on the fringe of the political spectrum in the U.S. for about five years. Recent history is not the first time it has been raised. In 1880 Chester Arthur, the son of a father of Irish citizenship and a mother of U.S. citizenship, was rumored to have been born not in Vermont where all credible evidence established his birthplace, but in Canada. This unfounded rumor did not receive niuch traction, perhaps because the internet had not been as fully developed then as it is now.

    In the past five years all manner of court action has sought to entice courts to enter into the process of determining the qualifications of two persons who were nominated for president in 2008, and one who has served; a process reserved in the U.S. Constitution to the congress, not the courts.

    The vast majority of these cases however involved President Obama. The first wave occurred during the presidential campaign of 2008, and involved issues similar or identical to those raised in this case. Plaintiff Linda Jordan cannot be unaware of those cases. None were successful. Most were dismissed on standing grounds; a question not directly at issue in this case because plaintiff purports to bring this case under RCW 29A.68.011, subparts 1 and 3, which confers standing on any elector. But others, including Ankeny v. Governor of State of Indiana, 916 N .E.2d (2009) addressed the merits.

    I began this explanation of my decision with some history of the birther movement, and I conclude with some more history. Even after the election of 2008, so-called birther lawsuits continued. A lawyer, self styled as the leader of the birther movement, filed a series of lawsuits on behalf of service members seeking to avoid deployment to war zones on the grounds that President Obama did not legitimately hold that office. Some federal courts eventually forbade him from filing any additional lawsuits.

    One such case, Rhodes v. MacDonald, 2009 WL 2997605 (M.D. Ga. 2009), contained a passage that particularly resonated in light of the type of evidence plaintiff offers in this case. The federal district court wrote, in relevant part at paragraph 3:

    [Plaintiff] has presented no credible evidence and has made no reliable factual allegations to support her unsubstantiated, conclusory allegations and conjecture that President Obama is ineligible to serve as President of the United States . . .. Then, implying that the President is either a wandering nomad or a prolific identity fraud crook, she alleges that the President “might have used as many as 149 addresses and 39 social security numbers prior to assuming the office of President.

    Acknowledging the existence of a document that shows the President was born in Hawaii, Plaintiff alleges that the document “cannot be verified as genuine, and should be presumed fraudulent.” .. . Finally, in a remarkable shifting of the traditional legal burden of proof, Plaintiff unashamedly alleges that Defendant has the burden to prove his “natural born” status.

    Thus, Plaintiffs counsel, who champions herself as a defender of liberty and freedom, seeks to use the power of the judiciary to compel a citizen, albeit the President of the United States, to “prove his innocence” to “charges” that are based upon conjecture and speculation. Any middle school civics student would readily recognize the irony of abandoning fundamental principles upon which our Country was founded in order to purportedly “protect and preserve” those very principles.

    In her Memorandum, plaintiff Jordan seems to anticipate that the Secretary of State would seek dismissal under CR 12(b)(6), and argues that she has presented substantial evidence that President Obama’s birth certificate is forged. She quotes the standard for substantial evidence. “Substantial evidence exists where there is a sufficient quantity of evidence in the record to persuade a fair-minded, rational person of the truth of the finding.”

    She offers as evidence the musings of the infamous Arizona sheriff Joe Arpiao, supported by the report by a part-time computer programmer last employed in May 2007, who examined a copy of the pdf image of President Obama’s birth certificate and concluded that the original was forged.

    She offers the affidavit of a private investigator who opines that President Obama is fraudulently using the social security number of another person who was born in 1890 and was issued the social security number in 1977. The investigator is not able to identify the person and does not offer any insight as to why this hypothetical person waited until he or she was 87 years old before applying for and receiving a social security number. The rest of plaintiffs evidence is the standard fare of the blogosphere that has been floating around since 2008.

    In light of this evidence, I close with an additional passage from Rhodes v McDonald, cited above. On the issue of evidence~ the court wrote at paragraph 4:

    Although the Court has determined that the appropriate analysis here involves principles of abstention and not an examination of whether Plaintiffs complaint fails to state a claim under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)( 6), the Court does find the Rule 12(b)( 6) analysis helpful in confirming the Court’s conclusion that Plaintiffs claim has no merit. To state a claim upon which relief may be granted, Plaintiff must allege sufficient facts to state a claim to relief that is “plausible on its face.” For a complaint to be facially plausible, the Court must be able “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged” based upon a review of the factual content pled by the Plaintiff. The factual allegations must be sufficient “to raise a right to relief above the speculative level.”

    Plaintiffs complaint is not plausible on its face . . .. Unlike in Alice in Wonderland, simply saying something is so does not make it so.

    I do not usually devote so much time quoting the decisions of other courts in other cases. I do so here to make the point that just as all the so-called evidence offered by plaintiff has been in the blogosphere for years, in one form or another, so too has all the law rejecting plaintiff’s allegations. I can conceive of no reason why this lawsuit was brought, except to join the chorus of noise in that blogosphere. The case is dismissed.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl reporter

  236. gorefan says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:08 am  (Quote)

    Keith: Judge McPhee is my hero of the day!

    It almost seems as if each new judge is trying to out due the previous legal smackdown. Maybe the courts are finally getting tired of the lawsuits.

  237. donna says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:12 am  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown:

    Ça ne fait rien!!!

    chaque fois, tu me fais rigoler

    in the future, i will try to be better in quoting or preface it with your tattoo “Donna is not a Birther.”

  238. Rickey says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:15 am  (Quote)

    This must be a record for the quickest dismissal of a birther lawsuit. I first heard about it this morning, and now it is dead. Mercifully swift!

  240. misha says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:20 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M: At least now I know where Hubbard got his ideas from…

    Exactly. Two fiction writers.

  241. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:37 am  (Quote)

    It was less than 3 days from start to finish. Linda Jordan filed on Monday, August 27 and she got sent packing today.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  242. G says:
    August 30, 2012 at 12:43 am  (Quote)

    Wow! That *was* quite the deserved smackdown! Good for the Judge!

    gorefan: The Fogbow’s Jack Ryanhttp://www.scribd.com/doc/104349709/WA-2012-08-29-JvSoS-Reed-Court-Opinion-and-DecisionIt’s a duesy.

  243. Dave B. says:
    August 30, 2012 at 2:12 am  (Quote)

    I accidentally came across this while I was looking up Judge McPhee:
    http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/spincontrol/2012/jul/24/todays-fun-video-romney-his-hero/
    He’s also got a fun video about “Daniel, Zombies, and World War 3”.

  244. G says:
    August 30, 2012 at 10:45 am  (Quote)

    Isn’t that the same kook that rants about the Dallas Airport being full of satanic and phallic symbols and who sees phallic symbols everywhere?

    Dave B.: I accidentally came across this while I was looking up Judge McPhee:http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/spincontrol/2012/jul/24/todays-fun-video-romney-his-hero/He’s also got a fun video about “Daniel, Zombies, and World War 3″.

  245. Dave B. says:
    August 30, 2012 at 2:08 pm  (Quote)

    Same guy. I guess in the immortal words of that great song, “X’s for I’s”, People only see the things they think they want to see.

    G:
    Isn’t that the same kook that rants about the Dallas Airport being full of satanic and phallic symbols and who sees phallic symbols everywhere?

  246. LW says:
    August 30, 2012 at 3:21 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    I accidentally came across this while I was looking up Judge McPhee:
    http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/spincontrol/2012/jul/24/todays-fun-video-romney-his-hero/

    My contribution to this site for the day: the first transcription of what will soon be sweeping the oceans like the mud shark.

    I think what’s captured my imagination is his establishment of candle maintenance as a path to salvation.

    Mitt Romney: A Hero In My Mind

    “Woe, woe, woe”
    Cried the eagle to the world below
    Wake up friend
    Can’t you see we’re at the end?
    Wars
    And rumors of war
    Look out for
    The signs He gave
    (Jesus gave)
    Are you saved?
    If
    You keep your wick trimmed
    You’ll be saved
    You’ll go with Him

    World War Three:
    That’s Obama’s plan for you and me
    What a crock
    It’s the only hope he’s got
    He can’t
    Be re-elected
    On his record
    (It’s a crime)
    He should resign
    That’s why I’m
    Voting
    For Mitt Romney
    He’s a hero
    In my mind

    [Frightening “Thumbs up!” gesture and grimace]

  247. Dave B. says:
    August 30, 2012 at 3:40 pm  (Quote)

    Ralph Maxwell’s more convincing to me:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/18/1121614/-Hilarious-poem-about-Mitt-Romney-by-92-Year-Old-Retired-ND-Judge-WWII-Vet-needs-to-go-viral

    It would’ve been cool, though, if he’d run off and pole-vaulted over a car when he was done. In uniform.

    http://masterstrack.com/2011/07/19141/

    What a guy.

  248. Dave B. says:
    August 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm  (Quote)

    What’s up, Doc? I just tried to make a comment and it disappeared.

  249. Thomas Brown says:
    August 30, 2012 at 4:05 pm  (Quote)

    LW: World War Three:
    That’s Obama’s plan for you and me

    That would be #7 on the Arduini Index of Nutjob Conspiracy Theorists:

    “7. Simultaneous contradictory beliefs.
    Nut-jobs often imagine at the same time and even in the same sentence that (for example) they are fighting forces which are both super-humanly brilliant and powerful … and completely incompetent.”

    In this case, it’s Birther nutjobs complaining simultaneously that Obama 1) is wrong not to be attacking Iran right now, and 2) that he’s leading us into a world war.

  250. Northland10 says:
    August 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm  (Quote)

    Doc, you may have already heard about this from Bad Fiction (elsewhere) but the Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit recently made a ruling in the Lacy v. Maricopa County lawsuit filed by the owners of the Phoenix New times against various Maricopa County officials including Sheriff Arpaio and various players in the County Prosecutors office when Thomas was in charge.

    Though this is not a Birther case, as it deals with their hero Arpaio and involves a severe abuse of power and intentional attempts to restrict various Constitutional rights, especially the 1st and 4th. While Birthers talk about being patriots and see Arpaio as their idol, he appears to be using the power of his office (and, previously, the County Prosecutor’s office) to intimidate anyone who would speak against him (I know, big suprise)

    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2012/08/29/09-15703.pdf

    Being up north for the last few days, bike rides among green herons, deer, minks, blue herons and a host of other wildlife has kept me from fully completing the ruling, so far.

  251. Rickey says:
    August 30, 2012 at 7:00 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    It was less than 3 days from start to finish. Linda Jordan filed on Monday, August 27 and she got sent packing today.

    I wonder how much time she wasted putting it together.

  252. misha says:
    August 30, 2012 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    Three Georgia Soldiers Face Death Penalty in Killings

    The group contemplated several attacks, including poisoning the apple crop in Washington State, attacking a dam and assassinating President Obama. The group spent at least $87,000 buying guns and bomb components.

    But the militia began to unravel when one of its members, Mr. Roark, who had left the Army as a private, was caught taking money and planned to leave the group, prosecutors say. On Monday, one of the accused conspirators, Pfc. Michael Burnett, told a judge that the couple had been killed to protect the militia’s secrecy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/3-georgia-soldiers-face-death-penalty-in-killings.html

  253. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 30, 2012 at 11:05 pm  (Quote)

    Well, I just clobbered Mario Apuzzo WITH LOGIC, again. I made him choke on his words.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/the-two-citizen-parents-requirement-oh-yeah-the-birthers-built-that/

    That will teach him to call me “perverted, warped, and pretentious mind[ed]”!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  254. misha says:
    August 30, 2012 at 11:29 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Well, I just clobbered Mario Apuzzo

    I looked through the comments. Mario wrote to a commenter,

    “We are not in a law court here. This is the court of public opinion”

    …and I left this:

    In the court of public opinion, only your looks count, and I don’t like your looks.

    [With apologies to “Forty Years On.”]

  255. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 30, 2012 at 11:50 pm  (Quote)

    Misha:

    LOL! Mario has been pretty quiet since August 8, 2012, but I could have swore I read he was getting involved in the Maryland mess. But I must have been wrong. Anyway, he will probably be in this to the bitter end along with Orly Taitz. I look for Van Irion to start getting cold feet after the sanctions.

    Sooo, I am going to keep popping him. Uncle George has me on time and a half until the election, and double time after 40 hours, so I want to make some hay while the sun shines. My secret Birther source is trying to get his hands on another book in The Birther Bible, The Apuzzites. That ought to rile him up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  256. Dave B. says:
    August 31, 2012 at 2:25 am  (Quote)

    Mario is a bit sensitive about that bad haircut.

    misha:

    In the court of public opinion, only your looks count, and I don’t like your looks.

  257. Keith says:
    August 31, 2012 at 3:35 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: But I must have been wrong. Anyway, he will probably be in this to the bitter end along with Orly Taitz.

    When President Obama leaves office on 20 January 2016, Mario and Orly will be trying to find a microphone where they can take credit for hounding him out of office.

  258. Keith says:
    August 31, 2012 at 3:58 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Well, I just clobbered Mario Apuzzo WITH LOGIC, again. I made him choke on his words.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/the-two-citizen-parents-requirement-oh-yeah-the-birthers-built-that/

    That will teach him to call me “perverted, warped, and pretentious mind[ed]“!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    I just left you a note on your blog about your article. Well done by the way. I’ll just repeat the comment I left over there because I like to see my words in pixels.

    —-

    Hi Squeeks. Your 2 part definition of the word ‘privy’ doesn’t actually explain how the same word gained those 2 definitions.

    In fact ‘privy’ is a very old word having to do with toilet and the location of emptying ones bowels. Once upon a time, Kings, being special people and all, were provided with special servants, called ‘Privy Counselors’ whose job it was, quite literally, to wipe the Kings ass.

    As you can imagine, someone entrusted with this rather intimate access to the Kings person had to be completely trustworthy and dependable. They would grow, over time, to do more than just help with the Kings movements, they would be entrusted with secrets of all kinds.

    Thus definition number two.

    —-

  259. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 7:00 am  (Quote)

    Keith: Thus definition number two.

    Alexander Woollcott once shut down a play, with a two-sentence review: “No.7 opened last night. It was misnamed by five.”

  260. Majority Will says:
    August 31, 2012 at 7:09 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: LOL! Mario has been pretty quiet since August 8, 2012, but I could have swore I read he was getting involved in the Maryland mess. But I must have been wrong. Anyway, he will probably be in this to the bitter end along with Orly Taitz

    Mario also stays busy with women’s issues since he is a full time douche bag.

  261. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 31, 2012 at 7:36 am  (Quote)

    Keith:

    Thank you!!! I added your “privy” notes to the Internet Article. Your pixels are now part of the post! That stuff always makes them more interesting and educational.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Plus: Misha – LOL! I just love bad reviews of things.

    Majority Will – Ouch! Mario felt that slap up in New Jersey.

  262. Keith says:
    August 31, 2012 at 9:35 am  (Quote)

    misha: Alexander Woollcott once shut down a play, with a two-sentence review: “No.7 opened last night. It was misnamed by five.”

    Took me a while, but I got it eventually! Concise and to the point. Kudos to Mr. Woolcott 🙂

  263. Majority Will says:
    August 31, 2012 at 10:05 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Majority Will – Ouch! Mario felt that slap up in New Jersey.

    Based on his demonstrated masochistic tendencies and repeated, embarrassing failures as a putative attorney spewing idiotic and bigoted birther tripe in courts of law and in public, putzo must really enjoy getting spanked and humiliated.

  264. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 11:48 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: putzo must really enjoy getting spanked and humiliated.

    Here is the perfect illustration:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubereye/3883229187/in/photostream

  266. The Magic M says:
    August 31, 2012 at 1:29 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: putzo must really enjoy getting spanked and humiliated

    Seeing a big number of people, some of them real experts, rip your argument to shreds can indeed cause a rush of adrenaline which in turn can cause an addiction (similar to people who suffer from risk addiction).
    I remember how I once felt when I realized on a Saturday that I had made a big blunder on Friday and would get some harsh words from my CEO on Monday – after the first shock, I went “ooh, this feels good”. 😉

  267. Concerned says:
    August 31, 2012 at 1:36 pm  (Quote)

    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

  268. John Potter says:
    August 31, 2012 at 2:01 pm  (Quote)

    The Empty Chair at the Red Convention. That thing gets around!

    And, just like a birther, Romney is losing to The Empty Chair.

    Empty Chair remains undefeated. Zen perfection!

    POLL: Romney Trails Empty Chair

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/

    ( Eastwood must be an anti-birther! )

  269. G says:
    August 31, 2012 at 2:28 pm  (Quote)

    ROTFL!

    John Potter: The Empty Chair at the Red Convention. That thing gets around!And, just like a birther, Romney is losing to The Empty Chair.Empty Chair remains undefeated. Zen perfection!POLL: Romney Trails Empty Chairhttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/( Eastwood must be an anti-birther! )

  270. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    August 31, 2012 at 3:11 pm  (Quote)

    I would be far more interested how you posted a comment to the Debunker’s Guide, when there is no comment allowed on that page. I moved your comment here.

    As for your question, see the Funding topic here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/

    Concerned: funds

  271. Northland10 says:
    August 31, 2012 at 4:26 pm  (Quote)

    John Potter:
    The Empty Chair at the Red Convention. That thing gets around!

    And, just like a birther, Romney is losing to The Empty Chair.

    Empty Chair remains undefeated. Zen perfection!

    ( Eastwood must be an anti-birther! )

    The convention must have had some Obama furniture fetish. Here is Paul Ryan talking to Obama’s teleprompter.

    http://media.talkingpointsmemo.com/slideshow/republican-national-convention-day-three

  272. bovril says:
    August 31, 2012 at 5:22 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky,

    If you desire poking the saddest putz in the world, he is STILL investing waaaaay too much of his time over at Amazon on Lakin book thread……enjoy

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R21QR4ZLQBQ2NN/ref=cm_cd_notf_reply?ie=UTF8&cdForum=Fx17ZI2ION56WNC&cdPage=103&cdShowEdit=Mx2LC9P6MI0UOVV&cdThread=TxOS1MU339U7Q8

  273. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 31, 2012 at 6:44 pm  (Quote)

    OMG!!! You will NEVER believe this!!! Orly Taitz Thanks Clint Eastwood For Empty Chair Speech???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/orly-taitz-thanks-clint-eastwood-for-empty-chair-speech/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Bovril: Thank you. I have tried to get on that thread, but I have to sign in under my account, which I kinda don’t want to do. Maybe I will cut and paste it???

    Anyway, I finally got my copy of The Book of the Apuzzites! This was the first book in the Birther Bible, and it has been covered up for FOUR YEARS! I am posting it tomottor, and OMG it is SHOCKING!!!

  274. Thomas Brown says:
    August 31, 2012 at 7:36 pm  (Quote)

    Concerned:
    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

    If I have my facts straight, this site is supported by long ricketty stilts, like in a Salvador Dali painting; it is run by a cloned copy of George Soros wearing a Captain Nemo costume; it is funded by Albino Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the Communist Party of Tralfamadore.

    Glad I could be of help.

  275. branmakmorn says:
    August 31, 2012 at 7:38 pm  (Quote)

    But.. I thought Clint was telling us to put an empty chair next to the empty table, so we can double the win.

  276. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:02 pm  (Quote)

    Concerned: Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

    It is run by the International Jewish Conspiracy™, from our subterranean headquarters in New York and Jerusalem. It is funded by George Soros, from whom I receive a regular check.

  277. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:06 pm  (Quote)

    Concerned:
    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

    Zombie Lenin, as seen in El Santo y Blue Demon contra los Monstrous. Now, I don’t speak Spanish, but if you ignore the English subtitles for that movie, you can plainly see that Zombie Lenin mentions something about funding this website. Despite that film being made in 1960s.

  278. Dave B. says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:14 pm  (Quote)

    We could tell you, but you know what comes next.

    Concerned:
    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

  279. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:23 pm  (Quote)

    Thomas Brown: the Communist Party of Tralfamadore

    Hey – I’m a card carrying member. Don’t make fun.

  280. LW says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:23 pm  (Quote)

    Concerned:
    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

    Naturally!

  281. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:27 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.: We could tell you, but you know what comes next.

    Here’s the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuE_jqYNi3c

  282. JPotter says:
    August 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm  (Quote)

    Concerned:
    Can you tell me who supports, runs and funds this site please?

    That question has been answered many times.
    It is supported, run, and funded by the good, the better, and the best, respectively.

  283. Dave B. says:
    August 31, 2012 at 9:05 pm  (Quote)

    Still got the shovel.

    JPotter: That question has been answered many times.

  284. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    August 31, 2012 at 10:20 pm  (Quote)

    Dr C:

    I know that you don’t take any money for this website, unlike the rest of us who get a weekly paycheck from “Uncle George.” But you have used the Obot Jet a lot to get to all those hearings and go on vacays and things. Should you disclose that???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  286. misha says:
    August 31, 2012 at 11:15 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur: Federal Authorites Drop Criminal Case Against Joe Arpaio

    I read that. Looks like Glenn Beck will get away with that rape and murder of that poor girl.

  288. misha says:
    September 1, 2012 at 12:09 am  (Quote)

    donna: has anyone seen this before?

    He’s a crank. He also uploaded these “WANTED-for immediate deportation. Suspected Foreign National Criminal Illegal Alien. NOTIFY I.C.E. IMMEDIATELY.”: http://www.scribd.com/doc/88392156/2-WANTED-Notify-ICE-ForeignNationalCriminalIllegalAlien

  289. Sudoku says:
    September 1, 2012 at 2:00 am  (Quote)

    The charm is just oozy at ORYR. I thought this guy was (relatively) sane, until I read the last sentence. This was posted by “Ralph Swain”:

    “At this point, legal challenges to NObama’s candidacy are useless. Eventhough I thought the letter clearly summed up the legal arguments from the perspective of those who question the Usurper’s legitimacy, those arguments are not in the mainstream and no one outside of the movement accepts them. We now have only two remedies left: Nov. 6 or the 2nd Amendment.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.ca/2012/08/article-ii-super-pac-letter-commission.html

  290. misha says:
    September 1, 2012 at 2:31 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku: We now have only two remedies left: Nov. 6 or the 2nd Amendment.”

    That’s my concern: worse than OK City.

  291. aarrgghh says:
    September 1, 2012 at 2:32 am  (Quote)

    Sudoku: I thought this guy was (relatively) sane, until I read the last sentence.This was posted by “Ralph Swain”

    meet “ralph swain”:

    “The a**hole in the WH is a freaking fraud and we know it and you Obot losers will know it come March 1. Count on it!” Absolutely, AR925! Once Sheriff Joe release the truth about Nobama, I’m thinking there will be a day of stunned silence from the Obamanuts, and then little by little they’ll start making excuses. We’ve got to make sure our voices are heard then, so that the Obot propaganda doesn’t twist Sheriff Joe’s words. By the time of the democrat convention (if they have one!) I bet Nobama will be gone, and come November, the real house cleaning will begin. Boy would I LOVE to be on one of the many juries that will be in place to bring Nobama enablers and stooges to JUSTICE!!!

    —–

    Well, what scares me is what’s coming in November. Now that we know that judges can’t be trusted to support and defend the Constitution, I’m betting that we’ll see a very strong showing by the Republican nominee (probably Mitt Romney) and that somehow, the courts will deny him the presidency. Once that happens, Obama will be in complete control and the increasingly rapid strangulation of our once free country will commence. I forsee that this November will probably be our last free election–unless the bravery of real Americans waters the tree of tyranny with the blood of traitors. I haven’t fired a weapon since 1974–I came back from Viet Nam sick of violence (hell, I just a medic), but this bullsh*t makes me so angry I’m going out tonight to Cabelas to see what they’ve got in the way of a nice warm rifle. It’s clobbering time!

    i don’t believe “swain” and “sane” have been on speaking terms in quite some time.

  293. Keith says:
    September 1, 2012 at 3:25 am  (Quote)

    Just found a new ‘news and commentary’ site I hadn’t seen before. It’s got some good stuff from the Democratic point of view.

    Adicting Info

    Some selected articles that I enjoyed:

    Why Conservatives Win EVERY Online Debate

    Obama ‘Unchains’ His Inner Angry Black Man – By Using A Translator! (HUMOR-NSFW)

    This one surprised me. I looks to be legit too.
    Koch Brother Breaks From Republican Platform – Endorses Tax Increases, Military Cuts and Marriage Equality

  294. misha says:
    September 1, 2012 at 3:46 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: I’d settle for life in prison without parole, but this is what’s needed.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/31/1126360/-Soldiers-suspected-of-plotting-to-kill-Obama-face-death-penalty:

    “Unshakably committed to the point of planning and executing wild and violent plans, hurting and killing people.

    As Obama’s re-election begins to appear more and more assured, watch for more unsavory outbursts from the demographic.”

    YHBW

  295. Sudoku says:
    September 1, 2012 at 3:51 am  (Quote)

    Absolutely. At ORYR, he blends in.

    aarrgghh: i don’t believe “swain” and “sane” have been on speaking terms in quite some time.

  296. Majority Will says:
    September 1, 2012 at 4:13 am  (Quote)

    Keith: Why Conservatives Win EVERY Online Debate (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/29/debate/)

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    (excerpt) Progressives progress. It’s our goal as well as our nature. Conservative leaders (at this point, we may as well just admit that term refers to the corporate oligarchy that has been strip-mining the American economy since the embezzlement scheme known as the ‘Bush Years.’), do not want us to progress, Their only goal is to inhibit a constructive narrative that might lead to us wrestling our way out from under their thumbs. That’s why people like the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch have spent such incredible amounts of money to frighten our least capable citizens into political action against their own best interests.

    And that’s why instead of using this incredible technological opportunity to advance our society, we squander it by arguing with people who have somehow been convinced that the president is a foreign spy. And even though their argument is ridiculous, even though the same person telling you Obama is a Muslim today, was losing their mind over Reverend Wright three years ago, as long as they interrupt the conversations of people who genuinely want to discuss the world’s issues, they’re winning.

    It doesn’t matter how inept they are; if every other word is misspelled, or if they’re confusing Ted Nugent with Thomas Paine. It doesn’t matter if their entire argument just some pre-digested cut & paste from World Net Daily, that drips with unintended irony or projection. As long as they slow you down for a minute, or distract you, they’re doing their job.

    – – –

    Several elements within this editorial should be familiar to most everyone who visits here regularly.

  297. donna says:
    September 1, 2012 at 9:30 am  (Quote)

    a new article by klayman

    Last week, I had the occasion to cross paths with “revered” Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Scalia has been for many years the darling of conservatives, a judge who they believed had the guts to enforce the Rule of Law and the Constitution in the face of corrosive influences, foreign and domestic. I took the occasion to ask him a simple question, one he would be able to answer. I asked the “constitutionalist” Scalia what he believed to be the definition of “natural born citizen,” without asking him to render an opinion on whether Obama was eligible to be president, given that Obama’s father was not a citizen of the United States at the time he claims falsely that he was born here.

    Looking like a deer in the headlights and stuttering sheepishly, Justice Scalia responded, “I don’t know. Isn’t a natural born citizen a person born in this country?” I pressed on, asking “then why are there separate references to ‘citizen’ and ‘natural born citizen’ in the Constitution?” Again, Justice Scalia, pulling back out of apparent fright at having to give a straight answer, responded in the same fashion, “I don’t know.”

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/scalia-flummoxed-about-natural-born-citizenship/

  298. Sudoku says:
    September 1, 2012 at 11:33 am  (Quote)

    IF that incident happened, it was probably Scalia’s way of backing away from the bat-sh$t crazy person.

    Why would Klayman have an opportunity to talk to Scalia one-on-one anyway?

    Here is another choice quote from the article: “It is no wonder that many, yours truly included, view Obama as not only our first “gay” but also our first “Muslim” president. ” That Klayman is despicable.

    donna: Again, Justice Scalia, pulling back out of apparent fright at having to give a straight answer, responded in the same fashion, “I don’t know.”

  299. donna says:
    September 1, 2012 at 12:37 pm  (Quote)

    That Klayman is despicable!!!!!!!

    TRUE

  300. misha says:
    September 1, 2012 at 12:38 pm  (Quote)

    donna: a new article by klayman

    From the comments:
    -“Ain’t a college education great!?! I’m glad I don’t have one. I can answer that question without even blinking an eye.”
    -“Larry isnt jumping to conclusions that a “revolution” is in order. Only a fool could look at America and say that we need more time to understand what ails us. We dont have that time…They sit around waiting for someone else to act. They are afraid to enforce the Constitution…Larry is correct. We do not have a representative republic and THAT must be remedied.”
    -“It’s not time for revolution. Yet.”

    Klayman knows exactly what he is doing.

  301. G says:
    September 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm  (Quote)

    Definitely.

    Majority Will: Several elements within this editorial should be familiar to most everyone who visits here regularly.

  302. Sudoku says:
    September 1, 2012 at 2:35 pm  (Quote)

    I take it back. Despicable is too good for Klayman. That would be an insult to those low-life criminals who merely prey on animals, children and the elderly.

    I didn’t read all the way through that drek the first time. Why subject myself? After seeing the comments you posted, I went back (gag) and scanned through that POS. There it is, in the final paragraph, as if the rest of his vile spewing weren’t bad enough.

    “Americans no longer have a government run by people with the ethics and courage to protect the nation, and we must now do it for ourselves, hopefully peacefully and legally and with minimal collateral damage to ourselves and our families. But, as the framers experienced in 1776 with a king who did not and would not take into account their grievances, we again have no choice.”
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/scalia-flummoxed-about-natural-born-citizenship/

    I hope Obama’s attorneys use this editorial as an exhibit to their pleadings/motions in Voeltz or in any other court with the misfortune to be disgraced by Klayman’s presence.

    misha: From the comments:

  303. bgansel9 says:
    September 1, 2012 at 4:09 pm  (Quote)

    So, I hear Orly is going to give up her dental practice and become a full-time birther loser lawyer. Bwahahahahahahaha!

    Is Orly around? I’d like to hear what she has to say about giving up a well paid profession for one where she has to beg people for money and stands to risk heavy sanctions.

  304. Majority Will says:
    September 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm  (Quote)

    Mitt Romney tells 533 lies in 30 weeks.

    “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers,” Romney’s pollster, Neil Newhouse, said.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/29/mitt-romney-tells-533-lies-in-30-weeks-steve-benen-documents-them/

  305. Keith says:
    September 1, 2012 at 8:46 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Mitt Romney tells 533 lies in 30 weeks.

    “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers,” Romney’s pollster, Neil Newhouse, said.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/29/mitt-romney-tells-533-lies-in-30-weeks-steve-benen-documents-them/

    Newhouse remarks were taken out of context and misunderstood. He was talking to Rosie O’Donnell at the time.

    What he actually said was “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fat-checkers,”

  306. G says:
    September 1, 2012 at 9:34 pm  (Quote)

    You’ve got to read The Onion’s take on Romney & the GOP Convention…their satire is so on the mark of the GOP’s broader core problems here…

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/best-they-could-get-accepts-republican-nomination,29383/

    Majority Will: Mitt Romney tells 533 lies in 30 weeks.“We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers,” Romney’s pollster, Neil Newhouse, said.http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/29/mitt-romney-tells-533-lies-in-30-weeks-steve-benen-documents-them/

  307. Thrifty says:
    September 1, 2012 at 9:49 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    You’ve got to read The Onion’s take on Romney & the GOP Convention…their satire is so on the mark of the GOP’s broader core problems here…

    I’ve actually been souring on The Onion over the past year after being a consistent reader since 1997. It’s too political, and I’m tired of this direction. It feels like clever satire has given way to just plain old complaining. It’s like… if I want to hear people complain about the Republican party, I’ll go to a liberal blog.

  308. JoZeppy says:
    September 1, 2012 at 10:06 pm  (Quote)

    Sudoku: IF that incident happened, it was probably Scalia’s way of backing away from the bat-sh$t crazy person.

    I call B.S. Never happened. The worst part is the whole story is written like someone who knows nothing about Scalia’s personality. First off, do you honestly think Scalia is just going to strike up a conversatoin with a random no one about some non controversial question of law, and secondly is going to let a random nobody bully him on a question of law? Quite clearly, they don’t know anything about Scalia. At best, they’d be lucky if Scalia stopped long enough to flip them off.

  309. G says:
    September 1, 2012 at 10:29 pm  (Quote)

    While I can understand your expression here, the simple truth is that the GOP is not what it used to be, even four years ago, let alone a decade ago, let alone much further back than that.

    The current GOP simply opens itself up to a lot of both criticism and satire. Blame it on them that they’ve devolved into such an easy to satirize party…

    Thrifty: I’ve actually been souring on The Onion over the past year after being a consistent reader since 1997. It’s too political, and I’m tired of this direction. It feels like clever satire has given way to just plain old complaining. It’s like… if I want to hear people complain about the Republican party, I’ll go to a liberal blog.

  310. donna says:
    September 1, 2012 at 10:39 pm  (Quote)

    ‘Mitt Romney: A Human Being Who Built That,’ as Narrated by Leonard Nimoy

    This from The Daily Show last night was brilliant. A truer biopic than the one shown at the convention.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/romney-human-being-who-built-narrated-leona

  311. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 1, 2012 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    I think Conservatives should get together and organize their own political party.

    G: … the simple truth is that the GOP is not what it used to be, even four years ago, let alone a decade ago, let alone much further back than that.

  312. G says:
    September 1, 2012 at 11:11 pm  (Quote)

    Yeah, I enjoyed that a lot. Then again, I watch The Daily Show and The Colbert Report regularly.

    Both of those shows are usually really great during their Convention coverage and this past week was no exception. They stream all of their past episodes for free online too, for folks that missed them. So I highly recommend to anyone to check out their coverage from this past week!

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/

    http://www.colbertnation.com/

    I’m looking forward to their take on the Dem’s this upcoming week too… They will be on a Tues-Fri schedule (instead of their usual Mon-Thurs) again as a result.

    donna: ‘Mitt Romney: A Human Being Who Built That,’ as Narrated by Leonard Nimoy This from The Daily Show last night was brilliant. A truer biopic than the one shown at the convention.http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/romney-human-being-who-built-narrated-leona

  313. G says:
    September 1, 2012 at 11:25 pm  (Quote)

    If you mean the traditional old-school classic-conservatism flavor of “Conservatives”, then yes, I agree.

    I would consider these rabid far-right, know-nothing, red-meat zealots, who have taken over much of the GOP to be anything but. That’ sadly, is what has become the driving force of today’s GOP “base”. Their “establishment” leaders aren’t real Conservatives in my opinion either – just greedy and corrupt plutocrats and neo-cons.

    I’ve said it for some years now, I think the current GOP is too far gone, for the classic and moderate voices that once dominated it, to get it back. I think they will have to finally come together and form a new party to replace the GOP and provide classic-Conservatism a real 21st century voice in our politics. I still have a lot of traditional conservative friends that loyally vote GOP, even while shaking their heads in shame at what their party has become…I think their reluctance to come to terms with what has happened to the GOP is only prolonging the inevitable and even propping up the problem, resulting in only lending cover to its ever-further RWNJ extremist spiral.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I think Conservatives should get together and organize their own political party.

  314. Sudoku says:
    September 2, 2012 at 1:00 am  (Quote)

    Yes, I saw a recent interview with him in TV and that was my take.

    JoZeppy: At best, they’d be lucky if Scalia stopped long enough to flip them off.

  315. Majority Will says:
    September 2, 2012 at 2:50 am  (Quote)

    JoZeppy: I call B.S.Never happened.The worst part is the whole story is written like someone who knows nothing about Scalia’s personality.First off, do you honestly think Scalia is just going to strike up a conversatoin with a random no one about some non controversial question of law, and secondly is going to let a random nobody bully him on a question of law?Quite clearly, they don’t know anything about Scalia.At best, they’d be lucky if Scalia stopped long enough to flip them off.

    But to a delusional birther bigot, gently caressing a photo of Scalia and imagining a conversation is the same as the event really happening. Klayman just left out the part about the hand lotion and a towel.

  316. Arthur says:
    September 2, 2012 at 9:53 am  (Quote)

    High-ranking religious leaders rarely say anything I agree with, but I’m completely with the Archbishop on this one:

    “LONDON – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Desmond Tutu called Sunday for Tony Blair and George Bush to face prosecution at the International Criminal Court for their role in the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq”

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-09-02/tutu-bush-iraq/57534404/1

  317. Arthur says:
    September 2, 2012 at 10:09 am  (Quote)

    Just watched this . . . the poem is quite clever and the fellow reciting it is remarkable. Definitely worth a look:

    “Hilarious poem about Mitt Romney by 92-Year-Old Retired ND Judge & WWII Vet”

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/18/1121614/-Hilarious-poem-about-Mitt-Romney-by-92-Year-Old-Retired-ND-Judge-WWII-Vet-needs-to-go-viral

  318. Dave B. says:
    September 2, 2012 at 11:32 am  (Quote)

    Scalia probably just didn’t want to get any Klayman on him.

    Sudoku:
    IF that incident happened, it was probably Scalia’s way of backing away from the bat-sh$t crazy person.

    Hey, Arthur, I tried to post that after LW posted a transcript of that crazy guy’s Mitt Romney song. I tried to include a story about Ralph’s pole-vaulting, too, and the whole thing just vanished when I submitted it. I figured it would’ve been great if Ralph trotted off at the end and pole-vaulted over a car, in his Army uniform.

  319. Arthur says:
    September 2, 2012 at 1:47 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.: I figured it would’ve been great if Ralph trotted off at the end and pole-vaulted over a car, in his Army uniform.

    Yeah, according to what I’ve read, Ralph is an amazing athlete–he’s someone I’d definitely like to have a chat with.

  320. G says:
    September 2, 2012 at 2:13 pm  (Quote)

    Very impactful. I hope it goes viral.

    Arthur: Just watched this . . . the poem is quite clever and the fellow reciting it is remarkable. Definitely worth a look: “Hilarious poem about Mitt Romney by 92-Year-Old Retired ND Judge & WWII Vet”http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/18/1121614/-Hilarious-poem-about-Mitt-Romney-by-92-Year-Old-Retired-ND-Judge-WWII-Vet-needs-to-go-viral

  321. donna says:
    September 2, 2012 at 2:29 pm  (Quote)

    doc: “I think Conservatives should get together and organize their own political party.”

    actually, in ny, there is a conservative party with fewer than 150,000 members but it has clout:

    The (republican) ones where the party division is closer are afraid of losing the Conservative line on the ballot, and being stuck running against a Conservative nominee who will drain away their votes.

    Bottom line: a party with fewer than 150,000 actual members gets to call the shots on more and more issues. The state Senate moves to the right. And if the three Republicans who voted with Cuomo on the same-sex marriage law lose their nominations — they’re all facing primaries in September — the Conservatives could make the next few years a positive nightmare. Budget crises with the Democratic Assembly. A return to the old social issues wars.

    New York’s Conservative Party Spells Trouble for Democratic Agenda

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-collins/new-yorks-conservative-pa_b_1676744.html

  322. Rickey says:
    September 2, 2012 at 3:05 pm  (Quote)

    donna:

    actually, in ny, there is a conservative party with fewer than 150,000 members but it has clout:

    Back in the day, when it wasn’t nearly as extreme as it is now, New York’s Conservative Party actually elected a U.S. Senator (James Buckley, in 1970).

    Interestingly, Buckley introduced the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act, the very law which keeps birthers from being able to access President Obama’s school records.

  323. donna says:
    September 2, 2012 at 3:36 pm  (Quote)

    we even have a right to life party with a BALLOT ICON of a fetus in utero – DISGUSTING

  325. donna says:
    September 2, 2012 at 6:10 pm  (Quote)

    Bain Capital Among Private Equity Firms Probed Over Tax Strategy

    * NY AG subpoenas at least 12 private equity firms

    * AG probing conversion of fees into fund investments

    * Bain, Romney’s former firm, among those subpoenaed

    * KKR, Apollo, Silver Lake, TPG also get subpoenas

    Sept 1 (Reuters) – At least a dozen U.S. private equity firms have been subpoenaed by the New York state attorney general as part of a probe into whether a widely used tax strategy that saved these firms hundreds of millions of dollars is proper, a source familiar with the situation said on Saturday.

    The subpoenas, which were sent out in July, seek documents related to the conversion of fees these private equity firms charge for managing investors’ assets into fund investments, the source said. This means the investigation predates the release last month of confidential Bain fund documents by Gawker that revealed such a practice.

    The practice is known as a “management fee waiver.” As fund investments, the income would be taxed as capital gains, which attract rates around 15 percent. Without the conversion, the fees would be ordinary income, taxed at rates around 35 percent.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/01/bain-investigation-private-equity-taxes_n_1849570.html

    i want to see romney’s returns from 1999 forward and the forms he didn’t release from his 2010 return: FBAR & 990-T

  326. Keith says:
    September 2, 2012 at 6:28 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Perhaps THIS is why we aren’t seeing more Romney tax returns. I wonder if this story has legs?

    http://www.gvnews.com/opinion/columns/conason-how-romney-s-millions-went-tax-free-overseas/article_df68368a-f22b-11e1-ad18-001a4bcf887a.html

    My thoughts too.

    I’m also wondering if there wasn’t a fair bit of what is known in Australia as ‘bottom of the harbour schemes’
    going on.

    A bottom of the harbour scheme involves a ‘promoter’ taking over a company and selling its assets for a pittance and filling it up with debt, just before the tax bill is due. When the company then goes into bankruptcy the tax office is just another unsecured creditor. It was a very popular tax avoidance scheme in Australia in the 1970’s. The Feds put a stop to it in 1980. (see the above Wikipedia link for a more complete and coherent description).

    I suspect, with no evidence what-so-ever, that Bain and other companies where operating similar schemes that varied only in as much as the tax law varied between the US and Australia.

    I’m wondering if that kind of thing is legal the US or if not, when was it made illegal. One of the things in Australia that made it viable was the absence of Capital Gains Tax. We have CGT now, U.S. CGT is pretty low isn’t it, that’s basically all Mitt pays, am I right?

  327. Majority Will says:
    September 2, 2012 at 7:15 pm  (Quote)

    “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long-term.”

    – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) bemoaning the Republican party’s lack of homogeneity.

  328. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 2, 2012 at 7:39 pm  (Quote)

    In the US, (I am not a tax lawyer) any business transaction that has no legitimate business purpose but to avoid taxes is called “abusive” and is not allowed by the IRS. According to the article I cited, the IRS hasn’t gone after any company for this particular scheme used by Bain Capital, but some experts described it as “abusive.”

    According to Forbes Magazine, Bain Capital is being investigated by the NY Attorney General for non-payment of taxes:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/09/01/bain-capital-under-investigation-for-tax-avoidance-romney-denies-any-benefit/

    I’m going to be following this story personally, but it’s off-topic for the blog (except in the Open Thread).

    Keith: I’m also wondering if there wasn’t a fair bit of what is known in Australia as ‘bottom of the harbour schemes’
    going on.

  329. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 2, 2012 at 8:24 pm  (Quote)

    He’s about the only sane thing in South Carolina politics these days. I fear that Graham will not be re-elected. If Mitt loses, perhaps Graham should run for President in 2016.

    Majority Will: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long-term.”

    – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) bemoaning the Republican party’s lack of homogeneity.

  331. Thrifty says:
    September 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm  (Quote)

    I’m not saying they haven’t become an easy to satirize party. I’m saying The Onion is just doing a bad job at it. And they’re doing too much of it. When a purveyor of comedy reuses the same jokes too much, it gets old fast.

    G:
    While I can understand your expression here, the simple truth is that the GOP is not what it used to be, even four years ago, let alone a decade ago, let alone much further back than that.

    The current GOP simply opens itself up to a lot of both criticism and satire.Blame it on them that they’ve devolved into such an easy to satirize party…

  332. Majority Will says:
    September 2, 2012 at 9:19 pm  (Quote)

    Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

    How the GOP presidential candidate and his private equity firm staged an epic wealth grab, destroyed jobs – and stuck others with the bill

    August 29th, 2012

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829

  333. Keith says:
    September 2, 2012 at 10:46 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

    How the GOP presidential candidate and his private equity firm staged an epic wealth grab, destroyed jobs – and stuck others with the bill

    August 29th, 2012

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829

    You answered my question. From your linked article:

    Instead of building new companies from the ground up, we took out massive bank loans and used them to acquire existing firms, liquidating every asset in sight and leaving the target companies holding the note.

    That is the “bottom of the harbour” scheme exactly.

    People, many people, have done hard time in Australia for that kind of thing.

  335. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 12:06 am  (Quote)

    A fair opinion and unlike many of the uninformed and plain wrong things that Birthers misconstrue as “opinion”, you actually demonstrate what a real legitimate difference in POV looks like.

    So I definitely both see and respect your POV on this, yet still can have a separate and different opinion on The Onion than you, respectfully, that is neither less nor more valid than your own well-stated one. Simply a legitimate difference of POV and taste.

    From my POV, I don’t view The Onion on a regular basis, so maybe that is why I don’t have a sense of them being bad at it or reusing the same jokes too much…simply a matter of limited exposure on my part, I guess. Also, the select one’s I’ve seen I’ve thought were pretty funny, so I’ve come away seeing them as “good” at their satire, not “bad” at it. But this is not an area of argument or my attempt to persuade you to think differently. Just letting you know where my POV is coming from, and that we simply amicable and harmlessly have differences of opinion here. I appreciate your response!

    Internet slang has come up with a great shortcut for saying all of that: YMMV.

    Thrifty: I’m saying The Onion is just doing a bad job at it. And they’re doing too much of it. When a purveyor of comedy reuses the same jokes too much, it gets old fast.

  336. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 12:08 am  (Quote)

    Or as we call it here, Vulture Capitalism.

    Keith: You answered my question. From your linked article:
    Instead of building new companies from the ground up, we took out massive bank loans and used them to acquire existing firms, liquidating every asset in sight and leaving the target companies holding the note.
    That is the “bottom of the harbour” scheme exactly.

  337. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 3, 2012 at 12:08 am  (Quote)

    OMG!!! Birthers lay it all bare in The Book of the Apuzzites!!!

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/the-book-of-the-apuzzites-update-to-the-birther-bible/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  338. Lupin says:
    September 3, 2012 at 6:14 am  (Quote)

    “In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American, but Mitt Romney was right in the middle of it.”

    Yes, not only did Romney protest in FAVOR of sending other people’s children to die in Nam, when he avoided service himself, but he also complains about how those dying Americans made it “tough” for him while he was in France avoiding service.

    More here:
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-airs-the-most-ridiculous-statement-ive-ever-seen-on-television/

    Thank you, CNN.

  339. JD Reed says:
    September 3, 2012 at 10:40 am  (Quote)

    Sudokuhttp://www.wnd.com/2012/08/scalia-flummoxed-about-natural-born-citizenship/I hope Obama’s attorneys use this editorial as an exhibit to their pleadings/motions in Voeltz or in any other court with the misfortune to be disgraced by Klayman’s presence.

    What’s your take? Does Klayman really believe his fantastic tale, or did he make it up of the whole cloth? A third theoretical option, that this really happened, I don’t believe for a millisecond. Scalia, whose reputation for skewering even the most accomplished constitutional lawyers that appear before the Supreme court with his sarcastic rapier wit, was flummoxed by the likes of Klayman?
    This reminds me of an encounter I had with a guy nearly three decades ago. He was running for local office with a bio that claimed he had been an undercover agent of some sort, with lots of tales of derring-do.
    He said he once looked out the window of his motel room in El Paso and saw a squad of hit men coming after him. So he very cleverly ducked out the back door and escaped. Really? This squad of hit men would have not thought to cover the back door?
    My impression was that he believed his own fantasies. I’m beginning to get that idea about Klayman.

  340. donna says:
    September 3, 2012 at 11:13 am  (Quote)

    winning?

    i previously suggested (on this thread) that betty white speak:

    and to the DNC & NBC (her network)

    A push for Betty White to address the DNC

    No chance? Not necessarily… White responded to a similar social media push two years ago. In 2010, she hosted “Saturday Night Live” after a Facebook campaign encouraging the appearance went viral.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/09/a-push-for-betty-white-to-address-the-dnc-134176.html?hp=l7

  341. The Magic M says:
    September 3, 2012 at 11:52 am  (Quote)

    JD Reed: A third theoretical option, that this really happened, I don’t believe for a millisecond. Scalia, whose reputation for skewering even the most accomplished constitutional lawyers that appear before the Supreme court with his sarcastic rapier wit, was flummoxed by the likes of Klayman?

    But it illustrates the cognitive dissonance of believing in a conspiracy that is both near-omnipotent and totally incompetent.

    “They” have spent decades to obfuscate the real meaning of a Constitutional term, thousands of Obots talk about all the fine-grained details of the natural-born clause because they have memorized their propaganda, but one of the best Constitutional experts, necessarily also a part of the conspiracy, is somehow at a loss for words when someone asks him a simple question about it. (It’s not that Van Irion claims he made some kind of masterful argument nobody ever came up with before, after all.)

    For the birther mindset, it makes perfect sense.

    And for the grifters, it was another trial balloon to see what degree of crap they can still feed to their gullible followers. If enough of them believe it, the chances for opening their wallets with another round of “this new strategy here cannot fail, please donate!” are quite high.

  342. misha says:
    September 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm  (Quote)

    The Magic M: And for the grifters, it was another trial balloon to see what degree of crap they can still feed to their gullible followers. If enough of them believe it, the chances for opening their wallets with another round of “this new strategy here cannot fail, please donate!” are quite high.

    Klayman needs help with his ~$70K child support, which is in arrears.

  343. misha says:
    September 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm  (Quote)

    Lupin: “In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American, but Mitt Romney was right in the middle of it.”

    Here’s Willard speaking French with an American accent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpbytB7YmmU

    French soldier to King Arthur: “You empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

    Of course France was dangerous: French anger about Vietnam, and the insults for trying to convince the French to eschew coffee, cigarettes and wine.

    “You silly American. Tell me one more time to stop drinking wine, and I’ll poke you in the eye with a baguette. Comprendre?”

    “Go home, you foppish American. You can’t even drive, much less know how to eat.”

  344. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 2:53 pm  (Quote)

    Holy Spit! I was completely unaware of that article or that CNN special. How asinine their arguments sound! I was unaware that Romney had 4 deferrments for the draft. , which makes his subsequent actions and complaints come across extremely self-serving and tasteless:

    The doc also notes, as an example of Romney “becoming his own man,” that he protested in favor of the draft that he so skillfully avoided, before moving on to the time he spent in France, a time that Romney once described as “tough” because the French were “not happy to see Americans, because we were in Vietnam at the time.”

    Yes, you heard that right. Not only did Mitt Romney protest in favor of sending other people’s children to die in Vietnam, even as he avoided service himself, he then complained about how those dying Americans made it “tough” for him while he was in France avoiding service.

    Perhaps to avoid charges of bias, the documentary steers clear of these contradictions, but then takes the whitewashing to blindingly absurd levels by introducing the next segment with the aforementioned most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen on television. “In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American,” Borger says, “but Mitt Romney was right in the middle of it.”

    That’s right, in 1968, the year in which the highest number of American deaths in Vietnam were reported (16,592), France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American who was avoiding service in Vietnam. Aside from the constant danger of having one’s eye put out by an errant baguette, what hardships did Mitt Romney face while he was “in country?”

    Well, all those dying Americans were causing protests in France, and as a result, says fellow Romney missionary Mike Bush, “There was no train service, there were no buses, no newspapers. The electricity would go off from time-to-time.”

    The electricity would go off from time-to-time? Mon Dieu. Think of the horrific flashbacks to rudely-interrupted Gilligan’s Island reruns and spoiled escargot. But the horrors of Vietnam-era France didn’t end there.

    “There were no letters from home,” Bush continues. “The money at the time came via check. That was our lifeline was getting letters from home.”

    So, CNN’s story is that Mitt Romney had it tough during Vietnam because the protests in France made it hard for his dad to send him money. That’ll give anyone the thousand-yard stare.

    *facepalm* x 1000

    Lupin: “In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American, but Mitt Romney was right in the middle of it.”Yes, not only did Romney protest in FAVOR of sending other people’s children to die in Nam, when he avoided service himself, but he also complains about how those dying Americans made it “tough” for him while he was in France avoiding service.More here:http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-airs-the-most-ridiculous-statement-ive-ever-seen-on-television/Thank you, CNN.

  345. LW says:
    September 3, 2012 at 2:57 pm  (Quote)

    “’Je m’appelle Claude’.”

    “Je de coop Clow.”

    “Well, just… let’s try it again. ‘Je m’appelle Claude’.”

    “Je depleem bloo.”

    “’Je m’appelle Claude’.”

    “Je te floop Flea.”

    “Oh, mon Dieu!”

    “Aw, de foof!”

  346. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 3:39 pm  (Quote)

    I want to bring everyone’s attention to this, “must read” article.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_08/affirmative_action_baby039558.php

    I think it really does an excellent job of “connecting the dots” between the craziness we see out there by the GOP and the far-right, in their opposition to Obama, which has manifested in its worst extreme, as “Birtherism”.

    Just a few excerpts to share here, to give you a taste. As I said, I really recommend everyone check out the full article:

    After noting Karl Rove’s claim that white voters who had given Obama a chance in 2008 would now turn against him as a “failed experiment,” he suggests:

    It’s a familiar echo which goes all the way back to calls for Obama’s college transcripts. What Republicans have yet to come to terms with is that Obama — race aside — is a formidable politician. You hear echoes of the early days of the integration of black athletes into the sports world, when white racists would contort themselves trying to understand how, exactly, someone like Jack Johnson had prevailed. It’s very hard for Rove and his allies to get their heads around the fact that they got thumped in 2008 by an Ivy League black dude from Hawaii. Some scheme must be afoot.

    I’d say it goes even deeper than that, and is only partly about race. Conservatives are deeply invested in the idea that there is a “natural” majority supporting their policies. So 2008—the first time a Democratic candidate had won a majority of the popular vote since 1976—came as a big shock. Part of their reaction involved the revisionist argument that Obama’s victory was not a defeat for conservatism, because Bush had “abandoned his conservative principles” and/or John McCain never really had them. Others indulged themselves in the fabulist theory of an ACORN-driven “stolen election.”

    But an even more common theory has been that Obama won because he was black and thus benefited from (a) a historically large and overwhelmingly Democratic minority vote, (b) a higher-than-deserved white vote based on the idea that a Black President could bury racial animosities, and (c) kid-glove media treatment. The very nature of this line of “reasoning” suggested Obama was getting the kind of big thumb on the scales that conservatives often think minority folk get in all kinds of otherwise competitive contexts.
    …
    It’s part and parcel of the Right’s general inability to make a case against Obama based on what he actually says and does, which is pretty remarkable. He can’t be what he appears to be to most liberals: a center-left politician who is very much in the Clinton tradition, who really would prefer to attract some Republican support, and often compromises his own positions before he offers them. No, he’s a secret Alinskyite who dreams of turning America into Sweden, hates Christianity, and despises the private sector (which is why, no doubt, he chose to make private insurance companies the vehicle for his “socialist” health care plan, rejected calls for nationalization of big banks at the height of the financial crisis, and preferred a market-based cap-and-trade system for dealing with carbon emissions instead of command-and-control regulation).
    …
    So if people like me sometimes seem a mite sensitive to the possibility that massively distributed ads suggesting without evidence that Obama is stealing from old white people to give money to lazy welfare bums could represent a racial appeal, that could be why. Coates is right: it infuriates people like Rove that their conservative-majority-as-far-as-the-eye-can-see was derailed in 2008 by this Ivy League black dude from Hawaii. They can’t believe he beat them fair and square, so they’ll say he’s predictably failed in hopes that they can get the course of history back on track.

    SPOT ON!!!

  347. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm  (Quote)

    To follow-up on my previous post – in addition to the above-mentioned article, the commentary is well worthy of reading. In particular, I found a post by “yellowdog” to so well encapsulate this issue, that it really bears restating it here, in its entirety:

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_08/affirmative_action_baby039558.php

    The attacks on Obama’s religion, on his birth certificate , on his purported lack of patriotism, and on his associations with folks like Ayers all draw water from the same poisoned well. Calling Obama an affirmative action president is just one more way of taking away his legitimacy as a candidate and as a leader.

    If anything, Obama and his team should be very familiar with these sorts of attacks by now. All of them are rehashed and reheated from 2008–and they will need to dent Obama’s credibility with people now who were not bothered by them four years ago. In tandem with the false welfare attacks, they might sway some voters. Romney likes the welfare lies because they are ‘new information’ about Obama.

    Problem is, though, Romney’s basic approval ratings are not budging–and he is not an easy person to cast as a savior of ordinary working people, of any race. Taking cruises on yachts registered in the Caymans tends to undercut the regular-guy appeal… Ann Romney is supposed to help–but it is not an easy or natural message for her either. These are -not- regular folk–and their attempts to play regular folk fall flat because they are not convincing at it.

    The rich are different–isn’t that what Randians believe after all? The air of natural superiority bleeds through. In Rand-world, the wealthy and industrious are superior because their place in the capitalist order has proven them superior. They built it…they proved their worth, in dollars and cents. The market is a perfect moral arbiter. It’s not Lake Wobegone–every child in Rand-world is not above average. The successful are inherently better than the non-successful. If there are winners, there have to be losers . And, wow, what losers now populate our society. What better way to make the case for this moral vision of the world than to point to the distortions of the ‘natural’ order of things represented in affirmative action? Obama stands for all the losers, those who corrupt the natural hierarchy of society. Obama is out of his place. He has gotten uppity in the words of one Congressman (my own, I regret to say). He has gotten above himself. He is mingling with his betters.

    This is the GOP vision right now. We are not all created equal. The capitalist system will sort us out efficiently as to rights and to basic human worth. If you are worthy, you can vote and join the club. If you are not worthy, ashes will be heaped on your head. If you are poor, it is because you deserve to be poor. You did not build it. You did not try. Ipso facto – you are a loser. Further, you will always be a loser. (And you will try to steal elections, join unions for benefits you did not earn or deserve, and you will always ask government to subsidize your sorriness.)

    Just think, though, of what this moral view makes of the struggling middle class–what a bleak vision this is for them, for people who are trying harder than ever. Is their failure because they are unworthy? Is their worth at issue? Rand would say yes. Of course Romney and Co. want to blame the problems of the middle class on welfare and affirmative action. If the middle class got a whiff of what the Rand-reading yacht-riding class really thinks of them–in Randian clarity–it would be pitchforks for Mitt. In Randworld, you are measured by what you earn. Your net worth is your moral worth. If you are not earning enough, it is because you are unworthy. You lack something. Your economic problems are your own damn fault.

    No wonder Mitt wants to talk about welfare…

  348. Dave B. says:
    September 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm  (Quote)

    The author’s bio was enchanting. Her “fondest desire is to see America restored to sanity.”

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Another Birther Book! This one has Nazis!!!

    http://www.amazon.com/Omis-Diary-ebook/dp/B008XKQAUS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1345962291&sr=1-1&keywords=omi%27s+diary

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  349. misha says:
    September 3, 2012 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.: The author’s bio was enchanting.Her “fondest desire is to see America restored to sanity.”

    From the blurb: “Through Elke’s eyes, new perspective is gained on events in America today. The diary becomes a vehicle through which Elke’s granddaughter, Christina, sees that President Obama and the Progressive left are following in the footsteps of a dictatorial madman.”

    Wake me up when Obama dissolves the Reichstag.

  350. LW says:
    September 3, 2012 at 5:13 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Another Birther Book! This one has Nazis!!!

    http://www.amazon.com/Omis-Diary-ebook/dp/B008XKQAUS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1345962291&sr=1-1&keywords=omi%27s+diary

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    I see Thomas Brown has added a glowing review.

  351. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 6:00 pm  (Quote)

    LOL! Thomas Brown has an amazing flair and way with words. Kudos to him on his appropriate beat-down of this putrid, purile and just plain dumb ebook.

    LW: I see Thomas Brown has added a glowing review.

  352. Rickey says:
    September 3, 2012 at 6:15 pm  (Quote)

    Lupin:
    “In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21-year-old American, but Mitt Romney was right in the middle of it.”

    Yes, not only did Romney protest in FAVOR of sending other people’s children to die in Nam, when he avoided service himself, but he also complains about how those dying Americans made it “tough” for him while he was in France avoiding service.

    I wonder what the body count in France was? I seem to recall reading about an AWOL American soldier who was killed when he was struck by a car, so there was at least one.

  353. donna says:
    September 3, 2012 at 7:38 pm  (Quote)

    Hank Williams Jr. Blasts Obama Again, Says President Is Muslim, ‘Hates Cowgirls,’ ‘Loves Gays’

    “We’ve got a Muslim for a President who hates cowboys, hates cowgirls, hates fishing, hates farming, loves gays, and we hate him,” Williams Jr. bellowed. As the Dallas Sun reported, the crowd responded with a loud cheer.

    A late August concert featured Williams Jr. doing the same bit, though the dig at homosexuals appears to be a new addition to his schtick.

    In October 2011, the singer went on “Fox and Friends” to liken the president to Hitler.

  354. misha says:
    September 3, 2012 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    donna: “We’ve got a Muslim for a President who hates cowboys, hates cowgirls, hates fishing, hates farming, loves gays, and we hate him,” Williams Jr. bellowed.

    That’s OK. The entire Metropolitan Opera hates Williams and his ilk.

    Hey, Hank: You’re no Pavarotti.

  355. G says:
    September 3, 2012 at 9:30 pm  (Quote)

    Boy, has he become a real hateful POS…

    donna: Hank Williams Jr. Blasts Obama Again, Says President Is Muslim, ‘Hates Cowgirls,’ ‘Loves Gays’ “We’ve got a Muslim for a President who hates cowboys, hates cowgirls, hates fishing, hates farming, loves gays, and we hate him,” Williams Jr. bellowed. As the Dallas Sun reported, the crowd responded with a loud cheer. A late August concert featured Williams Jr. doing the same bit, though the dig at homosexuals appears to be a new addition to his schtick.In October 2011, the singer went on “Fox and Friends” to liken the president to Hitler.

  356. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 3, 2012 at 9:51 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    LOL!Thomas Brown has an amazing flair and way with words.Kudos to him on his appropriate beat-down of this putrid, purile and just plain dumb ebook.

    I love the word, “loopy.” TB just tore it to shreds. Omi god!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  357. Arthur says:
    September 3, 2012 at 10:09 pm  (Quote)

    misha: Hey, Hank: You’re no Pavarotti.

    And he’s no Hank Williams, Sr., either.

  358. misha says:
    September 3, 2012 at 10:58 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: New York’s Conservative Party actually elected a U.S. Senator (James Buckley, in 1970).

    He won on a plurality. It was Charles Goodell, Richard Ottinger and Buckley. Buckley was disliked, and Moynihan trounced him the next election.

  359. Thomas Brown says:
    September 3, 2012 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    LOL!Thomas Brown has an amazing flair and way with words.Kudos to him on his appropriate beat-down of this putrid, purile and just plain dumb ebook.

    Thanks you guys. You should have seen it before Amazon made me tone it down!

  360. Sudoku says:
    September 3, 2012 at 11:20 pm  (Quote)

    I am at a loss. I find it absolutely bizzarre if he were to entirely make up the story. Surely, Scalia wasn’t over for cocktails, etc., there had to be other people present. The conversation? I don’t believe that for a minute. If Scalia looked like a deer in the headlights, it had to be because he suddenly realized he had been cornered by a steaming pile of crazy. It most likely never happened. Maybe Klayman asked his question, and Scalia replied (with an aside to his aide) “get me outta here”.

    JD Reed: What’s your take? Does Klayman really believe his fantastic tale, or did he make it up of the whole cloth?

  361. Arthur says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:06 am  (Quote)

    Want an example of full birher stupid? Check out this guy from the comments at ORYR:

    “First of all, I want to be clear that the evidence that Hussein Osama was born in Kenya is, at this point, beyond a reasonable doubt. There are murderers on death row with less evidence against them than the evidence that Osama was born in Kenya. Furthermore, in the Obots’ favorite case of Wong Kim Art, the court expressly and correctly stated that statutes extending citizenship to the children of citizens born abroad are enacted under the naturalisation clause. So while it’s also true that Osama was not a statutory citizen in 1961 because his mother was too young to confer such citizenship under the statute, it’s also true that this issue is irrelevant to the issue of him being a NATURAL BORN citizen.
    But having said all of this, and I can cite many, many cases if asked to do so, and I have studied this issue since long before Osama came along, it seems pretty clear that the weight of authority is that a person is a natural born Citizen, if both in a state, just as he would have been a natural born subject if born in the realm, if both within the territory of the state (or realm), irrespective of the alienage of his parent, although I suggest that this rule might not apply to an alien illegally present, which is not the case with Osama. Yes, his father’s VISA extension was denied in 1964 and he fled the country under threat of deportation, but that has no bearing on his status in 1961.”

  362. Investors Business Daily says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:18 am  (Quote)

    What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?
    He wasn’t married.
    Is that kinda queer, or what?
    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
    Phil Cave might call it guano-loco.

  363. Sudoku says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:40 am  (Quote)

    You are an embarrassment. People wear rings, gasp.

    Investors Business Daily: What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?

  364. nbc says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:47 am  (Quote)

    Investors Business Daily: What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?

    Oh my, the birthers are truly getting desperate… Hilarious

  365. James M says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:55 am  (Quote)

    Arthur:
    Want an example of full birher stupid? Check out this guy from the comments at ORYR:

    “First of all, I want to be clear that the evidence that Hussein Osama was born in Kenya is, at this point, beyond a reasonable doubt. There are murderers on death row with less evidence against them than the evidence that Osama was born in Kenya. Furthermore, in the Obots’ favorite case of Wong Kim Art, the court expressly and correctly stated that statutes extending citizenship to the children of citizens born abroad are enacted under the naturalisation clause. So while it’s also true that Osama was not a statutory citizen in 1961 because his mother was too young to confer such citizenship under the statute, it’s also true that this issue is irrelevant to the issue of him being a NATURAL BORN citizen.
    But having said all of this, and I can cite many, many cases if asked to do so, and I have studied this issue since long before Osama came along, it seems pretty clear that the weight of authority is that a person is a natural born Citizen, if both in a state, just as he would have been a natural born subject if born in the realm, if both within the territory of the state (or realm), irrespective of the alienage of his parent, although I suggest that this rule might not apply to an alien illegally present, which is not the case with Osama. Yes, his father’s VISA extension was denied in 1964 and he fled the country under threat of deportation, but that has no bearing on his status in 1961.”

    So this is about someone born in Kenya by the name of “Hussein Osama?” The Persian name Osama is very unusual there, but okay.

  366. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 4, 2012 at 1:08 am  (Quote)

    What makes you think it was a wedding ring (besides being a birther)?

    Investors Business Daily: He wasn’t married.

  367. James M says:
    September 4, 2012 at 1:45 am  (Quote)

    Investors Business Daily:
    What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?

    It is not a wedding ring. It is a ring of power, known as The One Ring.

    The One Ring was created by the Dark Lord Sauron during the Second Age in order to gain dominion over the free peoples of Middle-earth. In disguise as Annatar, or “Lord of Gifts”, he aided the Elven smiths of Eregion and their leader Celebrimbor in the making of the Rings of Power. He then forged the One Ring himself in the fires of Mount Doom.
    Sauron intended it to be the most powerful of all Rings, able to rule and control those who wore the others. Since the other Rings were themselves powerful, Sauron was obliged to place much of his own power into the One to achieve his purpose.

    If the Ring could be taken from President Obama and heated in fire, the following inscription would be revealed:

    Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Roughly translated, this is:
    One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
    One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

  368. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 3:01 am  (Quote)

    G: Holy Spit! I was completely unaware of that article or that CNN special. How asinine their arguments sound! I was unaware that Romney had 4 deferrments for the draft. , which makes his subsequent actions and complaints come across extremely self-serving and tasteless:

    In 1968, I was 14 and lived in Fontainebleau. My dad was in the army and despite De Gaulle taking France out of NATO (mostly a symbolic gesture) there was an awful lot of coordination going on between the French and US military, some of which had been and to some degree still was based in Fontainebleau. We had a “Lycée International” which catered to children of US servicemen and personnel. I even remember buying a box of bubble gum with Justice League of America trading cards!

    All this to say that we were occasionally visited by Mormon “salesmen” — for all I know, I might have met Mitt — or rather my mother might, for I was in school during the day — and as far as I can recall, everyone on our street was unfailingly polite, sometimes offering them a cup of tea, but of course in a deep-seated Roman Catholic country like France, the odds of converting anyone were 0%.

    To this, I want to add that in 1968, the face of America abroad wasn’t just Vietnam, which indeed was responsible for graffiti such as “Nixon” (with the X turned into a swastika) or “Nixon = SS” etc, etc.

    The other face of America was also the peace movement (with its ubiquitous peace sign), the civil rights movement, rock and roll and to those of my aqe underground comix, and the space program too. That made America very cool and politically speaking, we witnessed that a large swathe of America’s youth was protesting for peace and doing the right thing.

    My generation all wanted to be in Woodstock or San Francisco (I eventually went there but that’s another story), worshiped Joplin and Dylan and Hendrix and R.Crumb and the Silver Surfer.

    (That America unfortunately has mostly vanished which probably explains why, today, we only or ,mostly see the face of Evil America and as a result, except for Obama, your country isn’t cool anymore and disliked in many quarters which used to admire it.)

    The France of 1968/early 70ies I remember would have embraced a young American kid like Romney notwithstanding Vietnam.

    I also want to say that the 1968 “troubles” really impacted daily lives for 2 weeks, three weeks tops. There wasn’t really much hardship. Frankly, I don’t even recall any power cuts, but I wouldn’t swear they didn’t happen somewhere.

    In short, that CNN article is pure b*llsh*t — from someone who was there.

  369. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 3:11 am  (Quote)

    G: To follow-up on my previous post – in addition to the above-mentioned article, the commentary is well worthy of reading. In particular, I found a post by “yellowdog” to so well encapsulate this issue, that it really bears restating it here, in its entirety:

    Thank you for both articles, which (I totally agree with you) are absolutely correct in their analysis.

    As a footnote, I’d like to add a remark which I think I first saw on John Cole’s blog, Balloon Juice, which is that, in the eyes of these people, “conservatism cannot fail, only you can fail conservatism.”

    So Bush’s failure isn’t one of inept policies, it’s because he wasn’t conservative enough, etc.

    This is akin to religious fanaticism, which is why you can’t negotiate with these people (as Obama has learned to his disadvantage). You’ve got to push them back to the 5% or so they should occupy in any sane country’s spectrum.

  370. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 3:12 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: I wonder what the body count in France was? I seem to recall reading about an AWOL American soldier who was killed when he was struck by a car, so there was at least one.

    We routinely slaughtered Americans by the thousands.

    No, wait, that was geese.

    Never mind.

  371. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 3:49 am  (Quote)

    I agree.

    Lupin: This is akin to religious fanaticism, which is why you can’t negotiate with these people (as Obama has learned to his disadvantage). You’ve got to push them back to the 5% or so they should occupy in any sane country’s spectrum.

  372. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 3:50 am  (Quote)

    Glad to see another Silver Surfer fan!

    Lupin: My generation all wanted to be in Woodstock or San Francisco (I eventually went there but that’s another story), worshiped Joplin and Dylan and Hendrix and R.Crumb and the Silver Surfer.

  373. Risqué says:
    September 4, 2012 at 4:00 am  (Quote)

    I’ve been holding my tongue, but I am sure they made a mistranslation. They meant to say risqué, not dangereux. Risqué can seem dangerous to the family of a religious young man. Who exactly was embracing what, young man?

    Lupin:

    The France of 1968/early 70ies I remember would have embraced a young American kid like Romney notwithstanding Vietnam.

  374. Paper says:
    September 4, 2012 at 4:28 am  (Quote)

    If Investor Business Daily looks closely at Dr. C’s photo, IBD will notice a ring, outside of the frame where discerning eyes nonetheless can see it. This ring is called Narya.

    Plus, if you study Squeeky’s posts, you’ll see “a star through [her links].” That is the radiance of the ring Nenya.

    And no, no matter how nicely IBD asks, I will not tell the powers of the ring Vilya, which I wear.

    James M: It is not a wedding ring.It is a ring of power, known as The One Ring.

  375. misha says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:05 am  (Quote)

    Investors Business Daily:What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?

    I myself wear the Plotnick ring. Its powers are amazing.

  376. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:42 am  (Quote)

    Risqué: I’ve been holding my tongue, but I am sure they made a mistranslation. They meant to say risqué, not dangereux. Risqué can seem dangerous to the family of a religious young man. Who exactly was embracing what, young man?

    Unless Mitt used the services of a professional, the sexual revolution started a bit later in France. I don’t think he would have had a lot of ou-la-la moments on the road with girls his own age. Plus I believe they didn’t let their missionaries off the reservation too much, did they?

    All in all, he may have had a rather boring time in France, except for the car accident. That he felt isolated, vulnerable and terrified by the popular uprising of 1968 is quite understandable for a young, sheltered American.

    He could have had a wonderful, transformative, illuminating experience, but I suspect he retreated into his shell and fortified his prejudices.

  377. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:44 am  (Quote)

    G: Glad to see another Silver Surfer fan!

    Stories I could tell! 🙂 (But this is not the right place to do it.)

  378. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:45 am  (Quote)

    Re: the ring.

    To me, it’s obvious: Obama is a Blue Lantern.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Lantern_Corps

  379. misha says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:57 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: To me, it’s obvious: Obama is a Blue Lantern.

    Don’t be ridiculous: He’s the Green Lantern.

  380. Keith says:
    September 4, 2012 at 7:07 am  (Quote)

    G:
    Glad to see another Silver Surfer fan!

    Silver Surfer sighting at 2:15? Dark Star Trailer

  381. aarrgghh says:
    September 4, 2012 at 9:23 am  (Quote)

    for surfer fans, via national lampoon: “the lost surfer scripts”

  382. El Diablo Negro says:
    September 4, 2012 at 9:47 am  (Quote)

    Chuck Norris & Wife are jumping on the crazy train.

    Chuck Norris: America faces ‘1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    http://entertainment.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/04/13645398-chuck-norris-america-faces-1000-years-of-darkness-if-obama-wins-re-election?lite

  383. The Magic M says:
    September 4, 2012 at 10:47 am  (Quote)

    misha: I myself wear the Plotnick ring. Its powers are amazing.

    I used to wear the wrong ring* and getting rid of it increased my powers.

    (*) The literal translation of the German term for “love handles” is “safety ring”.

  385. misha says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:15 am  (Quote)

    El Diablo Negro: Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    GW Bush: God told me to invade Iraq. There’s your darkness.

  386. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:17 am  (Quote)

    How sad that he and his wife have become such zealot nutbags…

    …another reason why religion and politics should not mix. Our country’s founders were wise to include clear statements in the Contstituion to prevent religious tests in office and to separate such matters from public policy. Too bad the theocrats are so desperate to trash all of that.

    El Diablo Negro: Chuck Norris & Wife are jumping on the crazy train.Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-electionhttp://entertainment.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/04/13645398-chuck-norris-america-faces-1000-years-of-darkness-if-obama-wins-re-election?lite

  387. Paper says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:21 am  (Quote)

    Investors Business Daily, I zoomed in on the ring you mention and there is an inscription on it that I can’t quite figure out. I’m not even sure how to pronounce it. Can you let me know what it means and how to say it?

    It reads: “kltpzyxm.”

    Investors Business Daily:
    What’s up with the wedding ring Obama wore in college?

  388. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:21 am  (Quote)

    Klayman’s latest. Squeeky has already written about it.

    Just another sad and desperate attempt by the Birthers to try to intimidate and prevent a fair and honest election from taking place. I think they are starting to realize that Romney isn’t going to be able to pull it off for them…

    donna: klayman’s latest of regurgitated? http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/obama-lawyer-warned-against-certifying-eligibility/

  389. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    El Diablo Negro: Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    Sometimes the jokes write themselves. Should I go there? Nah. Too easy.

  390. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    Paper: Investors Business Daily, I zoomed in on the ring you mention and there is an inscription on it that I can’t quite figure out. I’m not even sure how to pronounce it. Can you let me know what it means and how to say it?

    It reads: “kltpzyxm.”

    Oh, that’s VERY good!!!!!

  391. Lupin says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:01 pm  (Quote)

    Last time I thought Nate Silver of 538 (now assimilated by the New Borg Times) was by far the best pollster/data cruncher around.

    Here is his take today:

    Chance of Obama win: 74.8%. Up 5.5% in a week.
    Predicted EC votes: 308.2 Up 9.2 in a week.
    Predicted popular vote: 51.1 to 47.8

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/sept-3-par-or-bogey/

  392. The Magic M says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:05 pm  (Quote)

    G: Just another sad and desperate attempt by the Birthers to try to intimidate

    The belief in the power of whiney (or threaty) letters never seems to fade…

    You can imagine another round being sent to every SOS once Obama has been officially nominated (because that went so well during the primaries…).

  393. aarrgghh says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:31 pm  (Quote)

    El Diablo Negro: Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    or in other words …

  394. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:44 pm  (Quote)

    Yep…pretty much.

    The Magic M: The belief in the power of whiney (or threaty) letters never seems to fade…You can imagine another round being sent to every SOS once Obama has been officially nominated (because that went so well during the primaries…).

  395. misha says:
    September 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm  (Quote)

    El Diablo Negro: Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    Norris’ daughter Dina was born in 1964 to a woman he was not married to. Then, he had a second son, Eric, with his wife in 1965. After 30 years of marriage, Norris and Holechek divorced in 1988. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_norris

  396. Thomas Brown says:
    September 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm  (Quote)

    El Diablo Negro:
    Chuck Norris & Wife are jumping on the crazy train.

    Chuck Norris: America faces ’1,000 years of darkness’ if Obama wins re-election

    http://entertainment.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/04/13645398-chuck-norris-america-faces-1000-years-of-darkness-if-obama-wins-re-election?lite

    His delusion is due to “Chuckles” Norris spending so much time with his head stuck where the sun don’t shine.

  397. Sudoku says:
    September 4, 2012 at 5:41 pm  (Quote)

    Hey, it looks like Voeltz v Obama is getting dismissed or summary judgment will be granted on behalf of the Defendants. Klayman has file “PLAINTIFFS COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS TO PROPOSED ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO DISMISS OR ALTERNATIVE, GRANTING THE SECRETARY AND COMMISSIONS MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT”, but it is not on the High Profile Cases site yet.

    http://cvweb.clerk.leon.fl.us/process.asp?template=dockets&addQuery=real_case.case_id='77182640‘

    http://www.clerk.leon.fl.us/index.php?section=205&server=cvweb&page=cvimage/high_profile/index.asp

  398. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 4, 2012 at 9:20 pm  (Quote)

    It was a dirty job, but somebody had to do it. I finally tacked Butterdezillion:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/the-strange-universe-of-butterdezillion-or-all-mimsy-were-the-borogoves/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  399. Sudoku says:
    September 4, 2012 at 10:38 pm  (Quote)

    Bless your heart and be prepared for the blowback.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    It was a dirty job, but somebody had to do it. I finally tacked Butterdezillion:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/the-strange-universe-of-butterdezillion-or-all-mimsy-were-the-borogoves/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  400. Sudoku says:
    September 4, 2012 at 10:55 pm  (Quote)

    Wow! Michelle Obama is giving a great speech!

  401. gorefan says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:35 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I finally tacked Butterdezillion

    Excellent analysis of the verification. The verification form and its listed items help the DOH make sure they have the correct BC. I suspect that if you send in just that form with the items filled in you get a single sentence back from the DOH.

    “The original Certificate of Live Birth for [name on certificate], is on file with the Hawaii State Department of Health.”

    It means they have one BC for that person that matches the items you listed on the verification form.

  402. G says:
    September 4, 2012 at 11:55 pm  (Quote)

    AGREED!!!

    It was so moving and positive and really made a case for Obama & the Democrats in such a personal, relatable and fairly non-partisan way! An A+ in my book and the best speech we’ve heard to date this cycle.

    Julian Castro’s speech was also top-notch and I rate his as just below Michelle Obama’s. It was as if the Dem’s said “I’ll see your Marco Rubio (who was the best speech at the GOP convention) and raise you a Julian Castro”…and raise the game they sure did!

    Having watched both conventions, I’d have to say that the Dems are off to a much, much stronger start by far. Their first night already delivered better than the entire GOP convention – not just in terms of better speeches, but also a more cohesive set of themes from speech to speech and also a consistent and believable connection in each of the speakers message to the candidate (Obama) himself.

    In contrast, what stood out the most in the GOP convention was how nearly every speech delivered only included a brief, tenuously connected mention of Romney, as if doing so was nothing more than checking off the box on a begrudgingly minimum-threshold mandatory requirement.

    Sudoku: Wow! Michelle Obama is giving a great speech!

  403. Sudoku says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:22 am  (Quote)

    Well said. I came in just at the end of Castro’s speech. I plan to catch a replay.

    G:
    AGREED!!!

    It was so moving and positive and really made a case for Obama & the Democrats in such a personal, relatable and fairly non-partisan way!An A+ in my book and the best speech we’ve heard to date this cycle.

    Julian Castro’s speech was also top-notch and I rate his as just below Michelle Obama’s.It was as if the Dem’s said “I’ll see your Marco Rubio (who was the best speech at the GOP convention) and raise you a Julian Castro”…and raise the game they sure did!

    Having watched both conventions, I’d have to say that the Dems are off to a much, much stronger start by far.Their first night already delivered better than the entire GOP convention – not just in terms of better speeches, but also a more cohesive set of themes from speech to speech and also a consistent and believable connection in each of the speakers message to the candidate (Obama) himself.

    In contrast, what stood out the most in the GOP convention was how nearly every speech delivered only included a brief, tenuously connected mention of Romney, as if doing so was nothing more than checking off the box on a begrudgingly minimum-threshold mandatory requirement.

  404. donna says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:28 am  (Quote)

    Daily Caller Hawks Racially Tinged Obama-Recession Conspiracy Theory

    As conspiracy theories go, this one’s The Unified Theory of Barack Obama’s Disastrous Hand Ruining Everything: Before he entered politics, the president was a crafty trial lawyer whose push to get easy money for black folks in liberal Chicago caused the mortgage meltdown and Great Recession.

    That’s not exactly how the Daily Caller sums up its new hit piece, but it’s close.

    “President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble,” as the lead attorney in a “landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank” that sought relief for hundreds of African-American would-be borrowers—many of whom have since defaulted on their loans.

    MORE

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/daily-caller-hawks-mother-all-incorrect-racist-obama-conspiracy-theories

  405. John Reilly says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:30 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Taitz lost before Judge Carter. Order available on her web site.

    How many losses is that?

  406. donna says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:41 am  (Quote)

    taitz: As I feared, Judge Carter did not reconsider his prior ruling and I am proceeding with 5 other cases

    Order from Judge Carter is attached. Judge Carter refused to change his prior ruling based on Arpaio’s affidavit. I am proceeding with 5 other cases in IN, MS, TX, CA, Supreme Court. After the nomination I will renew challenges for the General Election

    any day now ……

  407. G says:
    September 5, 2012 at 2:13 am  (Quote)

    There is no depths of depravity in the smears that these folks will try to spew, as their desperation increases…

    donna: Daily Caller Hawks Racially Tinged Obama-Recession Conspiracy Theory

  408. Sudoku says:
    September 5, 2012 at 2:32 am  (Quote)

    Oops! Orly got a Order to Show Cause for venue in what is for the time being, her TX case v Kathleen Sebelius.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/104883299/TX-TvS-2012-08-28-ECF-6-ORDER-to-Show-Cause-Re-Venue

  409. The Magic M says:
    September 5, 2012 at 8:13 am  (Quote)

    donna: “President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble,” as the lead attorney in a “landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank”

    Then why do birthers ask who Obama’s clients were as a lawyer? Or isn’t that because they doubt he ever worked as a lawyer (because they think he may not really have a law degree) but because they hope to find clients like “Socialist Party of America” and “Blacks Against Whitey Inc.”?

  410. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 5, 2012 at 8:36 am  (Quote)

    They might hope that there was some “disreputable” client, but I think the main reason for asking is that list is not available. It goes to bolster their “argument” that everything about Obama is hidden.

    The Magic M: Then why do birthers ask who Obama’s clients were as a lawyer? Or isn’t that because they doubt he ever worked as a lawyer (because they think he may not really have a law degree) but because they hope to find clients like “Socialist Party of America” and “Blacks Against Whitey Inc.”?

  411. donna says:
    September 5, 2012 at 8:37 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M:

    they never consider him a lawyer, only a community organizer which he was for fewer than 3 year (1985 to 1988)

    from 1993-2004 — he was an associate and partner (starting 1996), at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland — Chicago 11 YEARS

    1993-2004 — part-time lecturer, University of Chicago Law School — Chicago — lectured on constitutional law. 11 YEARS

    aren’t the tea parties community organizations?

  412. JD Reed says:
    September 5, 2012 at 9:49 am  (Quote)

    donna: .“President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble,” as the lead attorney in a “landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank” that sought relief for hundreds of African-American would-be borrowers—many of whom have since defaulted on their loans.MORE<A href="http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/daily-caller-hawks-mother-all-incorrect-racist-obama-conspiracy-theories&quot;

    Thanks, Donna, for pointing out one of the egregious lies some birthers and others have spread.
    I once looked at a PDF containing highlights of the file on this case, courtesy of the Washington U. (St. Louis) law library, which put it on line. Without having that PDF before me, I know several things about it:
    — Obama, then all of four years out of law school, was a bit player. He was listed as an attorney of record, but on all of the key documents in the file, two senior partners of the law firm were listed. Obama is shown as making one court appreance, of no consequence. I have read but have not verified for myself, that he billed for a handful of hours. When the case was settled, the judge specifically praised the two senior partners, without mentioning Obama.

    — The birthers and other anti-Obama folks claim that this case cascaded across the country,
    sort of like the small hole in the dike that floods the whole country. They say the result of the case was that CitiBank was required to make loans to uncreditworthy applicants. Actually, the case file reflects that CitiBank agreed to review rejected applications to see if some had unjustly been denied loans; and for those that were deemed bad risks, the bank would provide instruction, either by itself or in concert with other lenders, on how to repair their credit.
    The presiding judge specifically says in the file that he could not require the bank to make loans to those who didn't qualify.
    Among those who have circulated this false report is the American Family Association.

  413. American Mzungu says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:19 am  (Quote)

    It looks like the Democrats are running out of time to follow sage advice on Free Republic to dump Obama for the good of the Democratic Party. They also were sure the Democrats would replace Joe Biden with Hillary—for the good of the party. Why don’t the Democratic “handlers” get it? 🙂

  414. Tarrant says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:22 am  (Quote)

    Lupin:

    (That America unfortunately has mostly vanished which probably explains why, today, we only or ,mostly see the face of Evil America and as a result, except for Obama, your country isn’t cool anymore and disliked in many quarters which used to admire…)

    It’s interesting. About six weeks ago I was on vacation in Italy. One night I was pretty awake so I went down to the bar of my hotel and ordered a drink. I was in an area of Italy that is much less touristy (particularly for Americans) than the main cities, and I loved it because the food and atmosphere wasn’t set up to try to appeal to tourists, but for Italians.

    They were very gruff with me – chatting in Italian with other patrons but really, not rude, but just like “Here”. I even tried my best to do all my ordering in broken Italian. Anyway, I finish my drink and charged it to my room, and they saw my last name on the room – which is Irish, as my father’s parents immigrated to the US from there – and the bartender said, in broken English, “Oh, is that name Irish, or Scottish?” I replied it was an Irish name. He turned bright red and said “Oh we thought you were American, had we known you were Irish we’d never have treated you like that, we are so sorry.” They then offered a free refill of my grappa – with a much higher quality variety – and a free dessert. I wasn’t about to say “But I *am* American” and potentially lose the goodwill, so when he said “My cousins went to Ireland for vacation last year, it was so nice!” I made small talk with him about vacations and such.

    It was just weird. As soon as they thought I was from any country other than the US the demeanor just changed. I should get a big “Canada” t-shirt or something for next time I travel.

  415. The Magic M says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:32 am  (Quote)

    donna: they never consider him a lawyer, only a community organizer

    I know – both to put him down in a general sense (as “unqualified”, “came out of nowhere” etc.) and because the term sounds like “communist instigator” to many people.

    donna: aren’t the tea parties community organizations?

    It’s only wrong if somebody else does it. 😉

  416. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:39 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M: It’s only wrong if somebody else does it.

    The right wing in general, has devolved into tribalism.

  417. Lupin says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:57 am  (Quote)

    misha: The right wing in general, has devolved into tribalism.

    I couldn’t agree more!

  418. Lupin says:
    September 5, 2012 at 11:02 am  (Quote)

    Tarrant: It was just weird. As soon as they thought I was from any country other than the US the demeanor just changed. I should get a big “Canada” t-shirt or something for next time I travel.

    It’s a complicated thing, obviously, subject to many variables.

    Despite Romney’s b*llsh*t statement about Viet-Nam, my point was that there was another face of America that was hugely popular, cool, and beloved, which more than made up for bombing Cambodian orphans in the zeitgeist — and which no longer exists today.

  419. Lupin says:
    September 5, 2012 at 11:37 am  (Quote)

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/05/sept-4-the-simple-case-for-why-obama-is-the-favorite/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    I find the latest figures from Nate Silver very encouraging for Obama:

    This is is % of Obama winning these states:

    CO 70
    FL 62
    IA 70
    NH 82
    NV 81
    OH 82
    VA 71
    WI 79

    If OH, VA or FL are solidly in the Obama camp, the race for the electoral college is basically over for Romney.

    If Romney has to fight for WI, he is toast.

  420. donna says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:10 pm  (Quote)

    lupin: If Romney has to fight for WI, he is toast.

    it’s too early but it will be interesting to see how paul ryan will do as he’s still running for re-election in wisc –

    maybe he will lose BOTH elections

  421. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:30 pm  (Quote)

    Paul Ryan – the man with two brains. [Apologies to Steve Martin]

  422. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 12:57 pm  (Quote)

    If anyone is curious what I look like: http://ubereye.deviantart.com/

  423. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 5, 2012 at 1:17 pm  (Quote)

    misha:
    If anyone is curious what I look like: http://ubereye.deviantart.com/

    Aha! I knew you were a woman!!! LOL.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  424. G says:
    September 5, 2012 at 1:54 pm  (Quote)

    Woah…that was some experience you had…and it makes me sad to know that being American can bring upon stigma, even within Europe.

    This is a serious curiosity question for all of our posters in other countries – are Canadians universally liked, or are there places where they experience such predjudices too? I keep hearing the meme of “pretending to be from Canada” as advice…is that mostly lighthearted jest, or is Canada really that universally well regarded by the rest of the world?

    Tarrant: It was just weird. As soon as they thought I was from any country other than the US the demeanor just changed. I should get a big “Canada” t-shirt or something for next time I travel.

  425. YesWeCanada says:
    September 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm  (Quote)

    I had similar experiences back in the day. It isn’t particularly new. Pretending to be Canadian was an angle for some back in the 80s/90s. I think I used the line once when I was traveling through a particularly dangerous place–no, not France ;-}.

    Tarrant:

    It was just weird. As soon as they thought I was from any country other than the US the demeanor just changed. I should get a big “Canada” t-shirt or something for next time I travel.

  426. G says:
    September 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm  (Quote)

    Hey, I like Canada and Canadians too (from where I live, the Canadian border is only a matter of hours away, so it is a popular weekend vacation destination).

    But I wanted to get a sense of why the international community holds them, in what comes across to me, as such high universal esteem. What is it specifically that comes to mind by others in the world, when they think of Canada and its peoples?

    YesWeCanada: I had similar experiences back in the day. It isn’t particularly new. Pretending to be Canadian was an angle for some back in the 80s/90s. I think I used the line once when I was traveling through a particularly dangerous place–no, not France ;-}.

  427. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 2:59 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl&#32Reporter: Aha! I knew you were a woman!!!

    Tell that to my girlfriend.

  428. MattR says:
    September 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    But I wanted to get a sense of why the international community holds them, in what comes across to me, as such high universal esteem.What is it specifically that comes to mind by others in the world, when they think of Canada and its peoples?

    I think it is not so much being held in high esteem as the fact that no one dislikes them. Canada has never been an aggressor on the world stage so there aren’t any places that hold a grudge against Canadians (other than Quebec). And then I also think it is not so much a matter of Canada itself, but more of Canada as “not the United States”. The United States is held in such low esteem that any alternative is seen as a great improvement.

  429. Dave B. says:
    September 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm  (Quote)

    misha:
    If anyone is curious what I look like

    I look just like that thing by my name, myself. How’d they do that?

  430. donna says:
    September 5, 2012 at 4:31 pm  (Quote)

    media matters on the daily caller story:

    Daily Caller Tries And Fails To Read Legal Documents

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/09/04/daily-caller-tries-and-fails-to-read-legal-docu/189721

  431. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 5:58 pm  (Quote)

    donna: media matters on the daily caller story: Daily Caller Tries And Fails To Read Legal Documents
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/09/04/daily-caller-tries-and-fails-to-read-legal-docu/189721

    One commenter wrote about “Shari Law.” He’s wrong. I’m a big fan of Shari Lewis, who was Jewish.

  432. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 6:28 pm  (Quote)

    3 plead guilty to plot to blow up Ohio bridge

    The Justice Department alleged the five were angry at corporations and the government.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/09/3-plead-guilty-to-plot-to-blow-up-bridge-near-cleveland/1#.UEfR-JY_c8I

  433. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 5, 2012 at 6:50 pm  (Quote)

    OMG!!! Orly Taitz starts “Dear Orly” advice column???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/omg-orly-taitz-starts-dear-orly-advice-column/

    Misha: Then if you are really a male, I will be expecting you to sing this parody song I am working on, from Fiddler on the Roof, called, “If I Was A Birther.”

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  434. LW says:
    September 5, 2012 at 6:53 pm  (Quote)

    donna: Daily Caller Hawks Racially Tinged Obama-Recession Conspiracy Theory

    One of the points made here is that the attorneys are listed in alphabetical order. And they are: by given name, which is why “Barack H. Obama” is listed first.

    Is it common to alphabetize by given name in legal documents? That’s really annoying, at least to me.

  435. misha says:
    September 5, 2012 at 7:34 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl&#32Reporter: I will be expecting you to sing this parody song I am working on, from Fiddler on the Roof, called, “If I Was A Birther.”

    True story: My grandfather once had the privilege of having dinner with Sholem Aleichem, who wrote the story Fiddler on the Roof” is based on.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholom_aleichem

  436. Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter says:
    September 5, 2012 at 7:55 pm  (Quote)

    Misha:

    OH how cool. My parents took me to see the play when I was little. Fruma Sara just scared the crap out of me, but I loved all the music. Maybe that is what turned me artistic??? My father had the original cast record of FOTR, sooo I used to play it a lot on my kiddie phonograph.

    I thought about making my parody “Tard-ition”, but I figured that was a little too much.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  437. Arthur says:
    September 5, 2012 at 8:34 pm  (Quote)

    Reported theft of Romney tax records being probed

    “FRANKLIN, Tenn. (AP) — The Secret Service said Wednesday it is investigating the reported theft of copies of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s federal tax records during a break-in at an accounting office in Franklin. Someone claiming responsibility demanded $1 million not to make them public.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hyUTJVJHTIkoJ9mLwu9EkBPUqybQ?docId=ffe6a270e53f43f099007a033a65ecf3

  438. James M says:
    September 5, 2012 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur:
    Reported theft of Romney tax records being probed

    “FRANKLIN, Tenn. (AP) — The Secret Service said Wednesday it is investigating the reported theft of copies of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s federal tax records during a break-in at an accounting office in Franklin. Someone claiming responsibility demanded $1 million not to make them public.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hyUTJVJHTIkoJ9mLwu9EkBPUqybQ?docId=ffe6a270e53f43f099007a033a65ecf3

    It smells of hoax, because they speak of having 1040 forms for a person whose primary tax form is 990T.

  439. Arthur says:
    September 5, 2012 at 9:37 pm  (Quote)

    James M: It smells of hoax, because they speak of having 1040 forms for a person whose primary tax form is 990T.

    Yes, don’t think there’s anything to it–though I’m interested in how the birther websites will cover this.

  440. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    September 5, 2012 at 9:37 pm  (Quote)

    My hoax meter is giving a strong reading, but in my case because of the difficulty of pulling off such a burglary. I doubt there are any paper forms, meaning the computer system would have to be hacked.

    It works nicely as a conspiracy theory. The “burglars” just have to do nothing and speculation will rage that Romney paid the $1,000,000 to keep his tax returns hidden. If he denies paying the $1 M, that just proves that he’s lying.

    James M: It smells of hoax

  441. JPotter says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:14 pm  (Quote)

    Goofy story .. keeps hopping back and forth between references to electronic theft and physical theft. I note the supposed demand for $1M dollars in an internet currency (bitcoins?). A hoax, and a funny one. If it’s a serious bluff, they’ll need to provide something convincing. Is the campaign dumb enough to fall for attempted blackmail?

  442. Rickey says:
    September 5, 2012 at 10:32 pm  (Quote)

    misha: True story: My grandfather once had the privilege of having dinner with Sholem Aleichem, who wrote the story Fiddler on the Roof” is based on.

    Nice!

    When I saw “Fiddler” Jan Peerce was Tevye.

    In the early 70s WPIX Channel 11 in NYC showed Abbott & Costello movies on Sunday mornings. The station used an instrumental version of “To Life” as the theme music for the show.

  443. G says:
    September 5, 2012 at 11:52 pm  (Quote)

    I suspect hoax too. To me, the bigger sad story here is how much attention and widespread reporting this unconfirmed rumour story has gotten today. I’ve seen it reported everywhere. Which I consider to be extremely irresponsible, since there was no evidence to verify that it actually happened.

    So to me, the bigger issue is the sad, sad state of journalism in the modern 24×7 “leap before looking” era… pathetic and shameful.

    James M:
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/09/3-plead-guilty-to-plot-to-blow-up-bridge-near-cleveland/1#.UEfR-JY_c8I

  444. Scientist says:
    September 6, 2012 at 12:07 am  (Quote)

    Hurricane Bill levels Republican trailer park-Not a lie left standing.

  445. Arthur says:
    September 6, 2012 at 12:41 am  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    Hurricane Bill levels Republican trailer park-Not a lie left standing.

    ExCEPT . . . ORYR is now saying that Bill Clinton made a birther dig at Obama during his speech when he said that the Republicans had convinced him that they loved their country and were “grateful they were born in America.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/09/did-bill-clinton-just-go-birther-what.html

  446. JPotter says:
    September 6, 2012 at 1:08 am  (Quote)

    Arthur: ORYR is now saying

    I am now saying they are projecting their confirmation bias again.

  447. Tom says:
    September 6, 2012 at 1:17 am  (Quote)

    Not to defend a birther but I don’t believe ORYR was saying “Bill Clinton goes birther” but asking if he went birther.

    I don’t know what to make of Clinton’s bizarre comment being the issue was never raised at the RNC.

  448. LW says:
    September 6, 2012 at 1:27 am  (Quote)

    Tom: I don’t know what to make of Clinton’s bizarre comment

    I think it was just an element of his point: “For Romney is an honorable man; so are they all, all honorable men.”

  449. Paper says:
    September 6, 2012 at 1:34 am  (Quote)

    Nor was it raised by Clinton. Orly Taitz’s questions about such issues are not meaningful.

    Tom:
    Not to defend a birther but I don’t believe ORYR was saying “Bill Clinton goes birther” but asking if he went birther.

    I don’t know what to make of Clinton’s bizarre comment being the issue was never raised at the RNC.

  450. Lupin says:
    September 6, 2012 at 2:56 am  (Quote)

    I just watched Bill Clinton’s speech. What a man. What an orator! A stunning moment. Words fail me.

  451. Lupin says:
    September 6, 2012 at 2:57 am  (Quote)

    G: This is a serious curiosity question for all of our posters in other countries – are Canadians universally liked, or are there places where they experience such predjudices too?

    Yes Canadians are universally beloved.

    Quebecois, not so much.

    Australians are very popular too.

  452. Keith says:
    September 6, 2012 at 3:37 am  (Quote)

    misha: One commenter wrote about “Shari Law.” He’s wrong. I’m a big fan of Shari Lewis, who was Jewish.

    But was Lamb Chop kosher?

  453. Keith says:
    September 6, 2012 at 3:41 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    OMG!!! Orly Taitz starts “Dear Orly” advice column???

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/omg-orly-taitz-starts-dear-orly-advice-column/

    Misha: Then if you are really a male, I will be expecting you to sing this parody song I am working on, from Fiddler on the Roof, called, “If I Was A Birther.”

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Kind of a short song.

    If I were a Birther
    Yadda dadda dadda hadda ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha hee ha wait…
    ha ha ha ha ha ha
    cough
    cough
    oh my. Let me start over.

    No. just can’t do it.

  454. Scientist says:
    September 6, 2012 at 6:42 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: Yes Canadians are universally beloved.
    Quebecois, not so much.

    Some restaurants in Vermont that get a lot of visitors from Quebec have been adding an automatic 18% service charge to the bills of anyone speaking French, because apparently some people have tipped only a couple of %. Canada, incuding Quebec, follows the US custom of tipping, rather than the European service-included model, so those Quebecois should know better. The Vermont Human Rights Commission considers this to be illegal discrimination on the basis of national origin, but I sympathize with the poor servers who depend on tips to survive. Personaly, I prefer the European model in this. Let the owner charge a bit more and pay a decent salary to the staff.

  455. Scientist says:
    September 6, 2012 at 6:49 am  (Quote)

    Tom: Not to defend a birther but I don’t believe ORYR was saying “Bill Clinton goes birther” but asking if he went birther.I don’t know what to make of Clinton’s bizarre comment being the issue was never raised at the RNC.

    I didn’t think that Bill Clinton’s comment had anything to do with the birthers at all. He was simply saying that Republicans and Democrats both love their country, along the lines of Obama’s famous 2004 speech. It is typical of the deranged, like the birthers, to think that everything is about them.

    Now, when Abercrombie cast Hawaii’s votes for Obama, he called him a “Son of the Islands” in Hawaiian. THAT was a dig at the birthers.

  456. Arthur says:
    September 6, 2012 at 8:17 am  (Quote)

    Tom: ot to defend a birther but I don’t believe ORYR was saying “Bill Clinton goes birther” but asking if he went birther.

    Thanks for the correction. On the other hand, sometimes asking a question is akin to making a statement–“Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a young girl? Look, all I’m doing is asking questions.”

  457. JD Reed says:
    September 6, 2012 at 9:57 am  (Quote)

    donna: media matters on the daily caller story: Daily Caller Tries And Fails To Read Legal Documentshttp://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/09/04/daily-caller-tries-and-fails-to-read-legal-docu/189721

    Thanks, Donna. I had considerable respect for Tucker Carlson, until I read the Media Matters piece. My respect for him has plummeted.
    To contribute my little bit of knowledge:
    The Washington University (St. Louis) law school used to (not sure if it still does) have a PDF file posted on its website concerning the lawsuit against CitiBank in Chicago. It’s true Obama was an attorney of record, but the PDF file, which contains copies of the major documents in the case file, shows Obama to be a very minor actor in the saga. On those major documents, two senior partners of the firm are shown arguing, signing documents and otherwise litigating the case.
    (I have read that Obama made one inconsequential court appearnce, and that he billed for a negligible number of hours, but I couldn’t check that out for myself.)

    When the case was settled, the presiding judge praised these two senior partners, without mentioning Obama.
    Also, this case did not, as many have alleged, result in CitiBank being required to make loans to uncreditworthy applicants. What CitiBank agreed to do is review the files of applicants who were rejected for loans, and make loans to those whose credit histories were as good as other applicants who were approved for loans but lived in other parts of the city. CitiBank also agreed to set up a system to advise those who still did not qualify for loans how to repair their credit. CitiBank was to do this alone or in concert with other lenders; I don’t know what it finally did.
    Oh, and the judge explicitly said, in the case file, that he could not order CitiBank to make loans to uncreditworthy applicants.
    The American Family Association was one peddler of this false urban legend. Shame on it, and on Tucker Carlson.

  458. bovril says:
    September 6, 2012 at 10:31 am  (Quote)

    For those of you who love themselves some Birfoon fratricide, totally guano insane drivel and perfect examples of how to delude and outright lie, I recommend this one…..

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2926282/posts?q=1&amp;;page=1#1

    Do read all the posts, we actully have a hard core Freeper taking Butterdezillion and her mad belief that all HDoH statements mean the opposite of what they say to task.

    Whilst doing this BitterButts nemesis STILL holds onto the belief that the BC means nothing…….

    It’s a gem in denial and not to be missed as it is still active…. 😎

  459. G says:
    September 6, 2012 at 10:36 am  (Quote)

    Agreed.

    Scientist: I didn’t think that Bill Clinton’s comment had anything to do with the birthers at all. He was simply saying that Republicans and Democrats both love their country, along the lines of Obama’s famous 2004 speech. It is typical of the deranged, like the birthers, to think that everything is about them.

  460. G says:
    September 6, 2012 at 10:37 am  (Quote)

    Tucker has had a lot of extremely questionable incidents and misleading reports in his career, especially in the last few years. My respect for him plummeted quite some time ago.

    JD Reed: Thanks, Donna. I had considerable respect for Tucker Carlson, until I read the Media Matters piece. My respect for him has plummeted.

  461. The Magic M says:
    September 6, 2012 at 10:45 am  (Quote)

    Arthur: On the other hand, sometimes asking a question is akin to making a statement

    Which is one of the basic propaganda tactics that WND and other birther sites use.

    After all, a headline “Obama to end free speech?” suggests there is actually a valid reason for asking this question (especially when targeting those who will not read every article but take away the headline information only), so it doesn’t really matter whether it’s formed as a question or not.

    The other two common tricks used by birther websites are false association (as in “Washington Times: Where’s the birth certificate?” when actually referring to a birther *ad* that is *in* the WT) and misleading transitivity (as in “Democrats demand ‘end of free speech'” which resolves to “Democrats demand X” and “Y claims X means end of free speech” having been combined into one).
    Especially the latter can be seen on WND almost every day.

  462. donna says:
    September 6, 2012 at 10:51 am  (Quote)

    JD Reed:

    thanks soooo much for your informative input – it certainly adds to what media matters wrote – many (on the right) are critical of media matters – as with all sources, i source the sources – i find them credible

    to add to background, here’s a speech bush gave to hud in 02 “on National Homeownership Month”

    http://archives.hud.gov/remarks/martinez/speeches/presremarks.cfm

    here’s the jist/purpose of his “american dream downpayment act” of 03

    ADDI helped first-time homebuyers with the biggest hurdle to homeownership: downpayment and closing costs. The program was created to assist low-income first-time homebuyers in purchasing single-family homes by providing funds for downpayment, closing costs, and rehabilitation carried out in conjunction with the assisted home purchase.

    http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/affordablehousing/programs/home/addi/

    in my experience, due to higher fees, many borrowers were talked into other loans when they qualified for 30-year fixed –

    there’s lots of blame to go around

  464. Lupin says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:31 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: Some restaurants in Vermont that get a lot of visitors from Quebec have been adding an automatic 18% service charge to the bills of anyone speaking French, because apparently some people have tipped only a couple of %. Canada, incuding Quebec, follows the US custom of tipping, rather than the European service-included model, so those Quebecois should know better. The Vermont Human Rights Commission considers this to be illegal discrimination on the basis of national origin, but I sympathize with the poor servers who depend on tips to survive. Personally, I prefer the European model in this. Let the owner charge a bit more and pay a decent salary to the staff.

    I do too, but even here, we tend to overtip anyway. (Except if we want to male a point.) What’s a few dollars and it’s an opportunity to be generous to people who often deserve it.

  465. Lupin says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:33 am  (Quote)

    JD Reed: Thanks, Donna. I had considerable respect for Tucker Carlson, until I read the Media Matters piece. My respect for him has plummeted.

    Isn’t Tucker the bowtied twerp who was once “annihilated” by Jon Stewart on CNN? Years ago. I still remember it. A great moment of live TV.

  466. donna says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:54 am  (Quote)

    latest from the ditz on nasdaq.com?:

    Orly Taitz’ Latest Birther Claims

    http://www.nasdaq.com/video/video.aspx?vid=Orly-Taitz-Latest-Birther-Claims-517405223

  467. donna says:
    September 6, 2012 at 12:00 pm  (Quote)

    Jon Stewart Slams Tucker Carlson on ‘Crossfire’

    video and transcript

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/multimedia/v/stewartcarlson.htm

  469. MattR says:
    September 6, 2012 at 2:53 pm  (Quote)

    The Magic M: Which is one of the basic propaganda tactics that WND and other birther sites use.

    After all, a headline “Obama to end free speech?” suggests there is actually a valid reason for asking this question (especially when targeting those who will not read every article but take away the headline information only), so it doesn’t really matter whether it’s formed as a question or not.

    Also known as the Cavuto Mark

  470. donna says:
    September 6, 2012 at 7:51 pm  (Quote)

    FL – Voeltz v Obama – Dismissal

    FL – Voeltz II – 2012-09-06 – ORDER Denying Motion to Stay

    FL – Voeltz II – 2012-09-06 – ORDER DISMISSING CASE

    FL – Voeltz II – 2012-09-05 – Email from Judge to Parties

    FL – Voeltz II – 2012-09-06 – Voeltz Email to Judge

    priceless:

    regarding “natural born citizen”, the court held:

    In addition, to the extent that the complaint alleges that President Obama is not a “natural born citizen” even though born within the United States, the Court is in agreement with other courts that have considered this issue, namely, that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 705 (1898)(holding that a person born to non-citizens for China was a citizen of the United States because “[e]very person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizens of the United States”); Hollander v. McCain, 566 F. Supp. 2d 63, 66 (D.N.H. 2008) (“Those born ‘in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof have been considered American citizens under American law in effect since the time of the founding and thus eligible for the presidency.”) (citations omitted); Ankeny v. Governor of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678, 688 (Ind. Ct. App. 2009) (citing Wong Kim Ark, and holding that both President Obama and Senator John McCain were “natural born citizens” because “persons born within the borders of the United States are ‘natural born [c]itizens’ for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”).

    Accordingly, there is no bona fide, actual, present practical need for the declaration concerning whether persons born in the United States are “natural born citizens,” as THIS MATTER IS WELL SETTLED.

    dismissed for lack of standing and EVEN IF you had standing you LOSE ON THE MERITS

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/fl-voeltz-v-obama-dismissal/

  471. misha says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:04 pm  (Quote)

    donna: Daily Caller Tries And Fails To Read Legal Documents

    They’re acting like cornered wild animals. That’s why I am concerned.

  472. donna says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:23 pm  (Quote)

    well after all of the state birther bills, ballot challenges and lawsuits, obama just accepted the nomination

    can’t you hear the sounds of birthers dropping dead?

  473. misha says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:37 pm  (Quote)

    donna: after all of the state birther bills, ballot challenges and lawsuits, obama just accepted the nomination can’t you hear the sounds of birthers dropping dead?

    Their noise is going to get worse.

  474. misha says:
    September 6, 2012 at 11:41 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I will be expecting you to sing this parody song I am working on, from Fiddler on the Roof, called, “If I Was A Birther.”

    From FOTR:

    Beggar: “Alms for the poor, alms for the poor.”
    Passerby: “Here’s one kopek.”
    Beggar: “That’s all?!”
    Passerby: “I had a bad week.”
    Beggar: “So, if you had a bad week, why should I suffer?”

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.