A most troubling post has appeared on Orly’s blog, “the same CT SSN and address is linked to both Obama and Harry J Bounel.” Here’s what she said:
I’m sure Obama has people out attempting to scrub all info on Harrison J Brunel (sic).
Can anyone do an E-Verify on Harrison J Brunel (sic) ? Though I’m sure Obama has it set to come up as failed when checked.
Accessing E-Verify for improper purposes, and what Taitz is suggesting is an improper purpose, is a federal crime. She is asking for one of her readers to commit a crime and then provide her with a benefit. I’m not a lawyer, but if any of her readers takes a step to follow through on Orly’s request is this not essentially a criminal conspiracy, and is not Orly Taitz guilty of conspiracy?
The Employer acknowledges that the information which it receives from SSA is governed by the Privacy Act (5 U.S.C. § 552a(i)(1) and (3)) and the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1306(a)), and that any person who obtains this information under false pretenses or uses it for any purpose other than as provided for in this MOU may be subject to criminal penalties.
What about Harrison J. Bounel? Orly seems to believe that all information about him is being scrubbed by the Chicago Mafia. What I can say is that no such person appears in the Social Security Death Index, making it somewhat unlikely that he was born in 1890 as Orly has always maintained. For all I know, the person does not exist.
The search for the elusive Connecticut person, born in 1910, who applied for a social-security card in 1977, the number allegedly stolen by Obama, has vexed birthers for some time. They found a fellow born in 1910 from Connecticut, Jean Paul Ludwig. Ludwig’s specific appeal is that he died in Hawaii. The problem with this find is that Ludwig is dead and his social-security number is public information and it’s not the one Obama used. It’s those pesky facts that the birthers have a problem with.
So now, we have the elusive Harrison J. Bounel, a name that only appeared in some unspecified public database in 2009. There was a Harry L. Bounel from Connecticut who lived in Chicago in 1910. The middle initial is wrong. Also he was born about 1860, according to census records which makes his application for Social Security in 1977 (at age 117) problematic to say the least. Stumped again by pesky facts.
Now there is another Harry Bounel who was born in 1890, but he was born in Russia and lived in New York. I couldn’t connect him with Connecticut.
These public databases contain unconfirmed information and there is no indication of where the data Orly relies on comes from. That’s why the whole thing is inadmissible in court.
Update:
While I wouldn’t normally recommend reading the Obama Release Your Records site, then have an article on this subject that is perhaps worth reading, so long as you read to the end, since the first part is in part debunked by the second part (this is a problem I have with ORYR failing to sort out contradictory material until the end).
Hendershot has been trying to get social-security records for the Harry Bounel born in Russia in 1890 and living in New York in 1940. Social Security isn’t going to release any records until they are convinced that the subject is deceased; they want a death certificate. Depending on the state, that might be easy or hard.
I went looking at Ancestry.com and I immediately located the 1940 record for Harry Bounel, age 50 in 1940, living in New York. This is the only census record I found; however, if I entered the alternate spelling “Bonnel” more were found: a 1930 census record for someone that could easily be “Bounel”
again born in Russia. His age was 36 and he was living in Baltimore, Maryland. His age, however, puts him being born about 1894. We find the same fellow (same wife Anna) in the 1920 census as well, in Baltimore, born about 1895 in Russia, with an immigration date of 1911, which means we won’t find him in an earlier census. We also note that his “mother tongue” is listed as Yiddish.
So we either have two Harry Bounel’s born about 5 years apart in Russia, or we have one with an error in the age who moved from Maryland to New York and became separated from his family. Alternate spelling possibilities make this one difficult.
If we take a third alternate spelling of “Bormel” there is actually a hit on the Social Security Death Index. That gives us some specific information, a date of birth: 6 Jan 1894, a date of death: Jan 1976 and a social-security number: 219-32-5101. (It’s a Maryland number issued 1952-53). I’ll bet this is our Russian from the 1920 and 1930 Census. It could be our New Yorker, or not.
With the “Harry Bonnell” alternate, we come up more SSDI hits, but none born in 1890 or having numbers issued in Connecticut.
it was and still is easy for an individual to obtain a legal SSN, that also includes foreigners. My Japanese roommate in college had to get a SSN to work at a restaurant, he just walked ito the SS office and filed for one. So what is Orly’s reason for someone stealing a SSN that is so easy to obtain legally. Why would a 17 year ago kid go through such silly Orly stuff when all they had to do is apply for one. Really strange that Orly is. Why do birthers get so excited on theis.
As I recall, the Harry Bounel guy was first identified in 2010 by the ObamaHustle guy in Alabama. His bill collector database showed that the Bounel name first appeared in the database in 2009.
Would someone please explain the supposed logic of using someone else’s Social Security number with one’s own name to commit a crime?
If you were going to commit a crime with a stolen SS#, you would also use the name attached to that SS#. That is the only scenario which makes sense.
Using your own name but a fake number makes absolutely no sense in any way, shape, or form. Law enforcement might not be able to accurately trace you through a fake SS#, but they’d have your actual name, which is much better.
There is simply no benefit I can see to using the number but not the name.
I suspect that many birthers don’t know the requirements for getting a social-security number. Having a number doesn’t even mean that someone can legally work in the US, much less that they are a citizen.
The main idea I think is that this is just a piece of “everything about Obama is fake.”
ZixiOfix, that’s a really good question. There is no rational reason for someone to file their income tax return using someone else’s social security number – which is really what Taitz is alleging Obama did.
A while ago, in a exchange of emails between myself and Ms. Taitz, she completely failed to understand this. There is no rational motive for someone to do such a thing. Not only that, if you used someone else’s number on your return, it would be rejected and impossible to process.
“Obama” is not his name and both certs are fake. The “Obama” comes from the Bible and this was the con used to lead the Christian sheeple in ’84.
“Orly seems to believe that all information about him is being scrubbed by the Chicago Mafia. ”
The fact that is cannot be found simply proved it has been scrubbed, which proves a vast conspiracy. SHE WINS! SHE WINS! SHE WINS!
A truly undocumented alien would not have an SSN, while permanent residents, foreign students, business visitors, etc. do. But we’ve already been through this here- the minor child of a US citizen born outside the US is ALWAYS entitled to come here with their parent as a legal permanent resident and the parent can then claim citizenship for the child upon arrival. So even in the birtheriest dream world where Obama was born in Kenya he would still get a legitimate SSN. And, just for Sven,even if he somehow lost citizenship in Indonesia, when he came back to live with his grandparents, he would have been legally here as their grandchild and would have been entitled to an SSN.
As for why someone would use someone else’s SSN with their own name, I draw a blank. Since it’s Orly et al who allege a crime, the onus is on them to provide a motive (as well as actual evidence that the “crime” ever happened).
It is weird that Taitz is trying to link both President and Mrs Obama in a conspiracy when they were both teenagers living thousands of miles apart. It makes as much sense as using someone’s Social Security Number. This requires a person to be totally out of touch with reality.
His grandmother was named “Pearl” and she was a maid for the Owens family in Clewiston, Florida. “Obama” was fourteen when he was first introduced to the white side of his family although the town at that time had less than 3,000 residents. His biological father, Thomas Beauchamp Owens, was not the kindest of individuals to say the least and the two families were kept separate.
Her answer to the conspiracy to commit a crime via unlawful use of eVerify will be that “We The People” are the employer.
Cool. Let’s do lunch and talk about the script. I guess we try to get DiCaprio for Owens, after his star turn in “Django Unchained”. Who do you like for the other roles? I think we could get Spielberg to direct, but he always wants a big cut of the take.
@Mary Brown. He is in touch with reality. However, it is the reality of a world wherein the #Medellin cartel members were allowed to thrive. That is the reality of #Clewiston, Florida, #Hendry County. If you look at a map of south #Florida and mentally take away all of the swampland that belongs to the Seminole Indians you we see that it is a “border-town.” To the north is the huge Lake Okeechobee. To the west and the east during the late 70’s, early 80’s you had nothing but sugar cane fields sixty to seventy miles out which catered to the United States #Sugar Corporation (#Hoffa, #JFK,Jr). For such a small town and within a few short miles it had, and still has, TWO airports. Prior to the drug Lord Pablo #Escobar’s takeover of the town, it also boasted a thriving Civil Air Patrol whose pilots eventually became subservients to the drug trade. The beauty of this border-town for Fidel #Castro and others is that it DOES NOT appear to be a border-town. Do not be fooled by the continuous harping of #Miami as the center of the drug trade. It was not. The center was the many square miles of uninhabited swamp land all around Hendry County, Fl and the domination of those who survived the infiltration perpetrated under #RonaldReagan, the actor. Reagan was our first NON-MILITARY leader who either failed to recognize this infiltration. Or,…..(let your imagination run free at this point). His assassination attempt was no love story and he lied to the American people. For what reason, I don’t know. One thing’s for certain, it woke him up to reality and it may very well explain why he APPEARED to be a great president. REALITY? Well, reality for you and those who survived, including Obama, may very well differ.
Personally, I do not think that it would be conspiracy unless Orly was directly in touch with someone about committing a crime. However, I do not think that would get her off the hook. However depending on the statutes of individual states, she could be guilty of inciting someone to commit a crime.
That is not to mention the ethical violation of even suggesting that someone commit a crime.
Thanks for the information and link. Is this the grandmother?
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/540952_389222671165529_494838107_n.jpg
Taitz’s obsession with Obama’s SSN looks a lot like any other obsession. just like the person who washes his hands so often and vigorously that they bleed, or a person who rarely sleeps because he is constantly worried that he didn’t turn off the stove or lock the front door, it has taken over her life. She has lost all sense of reason, proportion, and reality.
You make the classic mistake of trying to apply logic to birther nonsense. Birthers live in a bizarro world which suggests that team Obama and/or his handlers pulled off the greatest scam the world has ever seen BUT were incredibly sloppy in doing so.
It is a world that believes that if one wanted to forge a selective service registration it makes more sense to take a 2008 stamp, cut the number in half and flip it to make it look like an ’80 instead of creating a new 1980 stamp.
It is a world that believes it makes more sense to cut and paste things several different documents to create a forged birth certificate instead of getting an old typewriter to create a new one.
It is a world that believes that an appointee from a republican governor who was campaigning for McCain would lie to support Obama.
It is a world that believes that CT issues it own social security numbers and that it is more logical that a social security number would be stolen rather than on the fact that the zip code for Danbury CT is only one digit different than the zip code for the town where the President grew up.
It is a world that believes that if a social security number was stolen, one would taken from a person who lived in CT rather than a person who lived in Hawaii.
It is a world that believes that someone can give definitive opinions about a document that he/she has never seen based on anomalies found in a digital reproduction of said document despite the fact that the information on the document has been certified and verified by governmental officials.
I could go on, but why bother?
Are a lot of white supremacists also assault rifle fetishists?
LOL. No that’s me and the false charges were dropped. Your point being….?
@Majority. Your arguments make absolutely no sense. How does this go into white supremacy? Are we somehow trying to work the race card into the mix?
I suppose next you are going to accuse Dr. Taitz of forging the page out of the 1910 Census where uncle Harry was living with the Robinsons?
N ancy
R uth
O wens
N ational
R eview
O nline
Coincidence? I think not!
Doc
You could always call Orly and warn her that she may be committing a crime. You, know like the favor Doug Vogt did for us when he warned us we might be committing treason and subject to being hung. 😆
Make sense? Your off topic posts are bizarre, mildly entertaining gibberish but your Facebook link (https://www.facebook.com/molly.n.owens) has priceless gems like this:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/423255_390872671000529_141054547_n.jpg
and this:
“WHITE PEOPLE, THIS IS A WAR FOR OUR COUNTRY AND THE FUTURE OF OUR WHITE CHILDREN. THEY ARE GOING TO COME AT US WITH EVERY TOOL IN THE BOOK. DO THESE TWO TEENAGERS HAVE THE LOOK OF DESPERATION THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE? DO THEY LOOK SAD? DO THEY LOOK LIKE THEY’VE HAD A HARD LIFE? NO! CON ARTISTS! NOTHING MORE. NOTHING LESS!”
and this:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399831_224173591003772_1852483275_n.jpg
and this:
“White people. It’s a Redneck Revolution. Take the hint and get connected. Putin sending ships to the Mediterranean (Syria).” https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531219_388695971218199_585453532_n.jpg
And much more.
Ruth is a troll. We should just ignore her and concentrate on the wonderful news that the President won ‘re election. We should say thank you to Ruth because views like hers were one of the reasons people chose the President. If you leave out the South a majority of whites voted for him in some very white states.I bring to mind Oregon, Iowa and Minnesota. My last word to dear Ruth is thanks.
P.S.
There were no “arguments”.
It was a single question (Are a lot of white supremacists also assault rifle fetishists?).
And more appropriate for the Open Thread (sorry, Doc).
@Majority. #Pablo’s game was to murder off all of the #white people in south #Florida. Play the #racecard if that’s as far as you are capable of thinking. And, the bigger picture is……? Here’s what the bigger picture is. Whites first. Blacks next. Browns rule. Do those two #Cuban teens look like they’ve had a hard life? Not to me. They look like two very healthy Cuban #soldiers playing the sympathy card on an unsuspecting #America. Why do they have “family” in #Miami of all places? Why do they also have “family” in Las Vegas of all places? Why did they miss the opening of their movie? To gain attention, sympathy. They are not sincere. They are not abused or malnourished. And, with family in these two locations, I very seriously doubt if they are #oppressed in any way.
Well, she’s no Sharon Meroni, but still, a handsome woman for her age.
Mornin’ Nancy–say, what’s with the hash tags in most recent post? Should we be twittering your comments? or is there something else than red Bull? I’ve noticed the issues that you raised, so thank you for that! We need more patriots to blow the doors of this speading train we call Obamacommons. Also, I like you feel sympathy cards are gauche. Jus stop trading on the passions of the xians. Am I right?
@Yoda. Documents that were verified? By who? By DNC Nancy ……….(focus, focus) …….. D’Alessandro …… drop one “s” to make it look good …….. D’Alesandro ….. (focus, focus) …….. Pelosi who shares the same name as …….(focus, focus) ….. former Florida State Attorney Joseph P. ……. (focus, focus) ……. “D’Alessandro …….. (focus, focus) … who ruled over Drug Lord Pablo Escobar’s swampland in Hendry County, FL. ……….(FOCUS) …………………………………. ……………………………….. ……………………………….. ……………………………………………………………………… ……………………………….. …D’Alessandro ………………………………………. .D’Alessandro………………..D’Alessandro ………………. ……………….. D’Alessandro ………………………. ………………………… ……………………………. ………………………………….. …………………………………………….. .D’Alessandro ………………… ………………… …………………. ……………………………. …………………………………………………………… ………………….. D’Alessandro ……………………………….(FOCUS)……………………. D’Alessandro …………………………….. ……………………………………………….can you make the connection here? Who signed his verification papers? Nancy <——-(note the similar name because it gets more interesting as we go along) D'Alessandro…………Pelosi…………Obama is from Clewiston, Florida and his father is Thomas Beauchamp Owens formerly of Clewiston. His grandmother's first name is Pearl.
The roomer was Harry L Bounel, not Harry J Bounel.
Sounds like a natural born citizen to me.
@Dr. Conspiracy. I can’t say “yes.” Nor, can I say “no” to that. I can only share what I was told. Again, I never met him until we were both around the age of fourteen. What I was told, and, I won’t stand behind it as a truth or lie because I simply don’t know, is that he adopted by a doctor in Tuscon Arizona. My father was stationed in Tuscon and the doctor supposedly was no longer able to take care of him financially for some unknown reason which is why he was moved to Clewiston (FL). Again, the two families were kept separate.
No Nancy, I was referring to the state of Hawaii. You have heard of full faith and credit, haven’t you?
Dear Ms Owens: What would you like us to do about your story? Why should we care? No disrespect intended- but most of us have only so much we can care about.
##———————— and so on
@Yoda. He was NOT born in Hawaii and as for this “full faith” credit, I’m sure I know where you’re going with this. Nancy D’Alessandro #Pelosi and her cohorts con us and we’re just supposed to swallow it down without a word? The same scumbags who covered up the Adam #Walsh murder with a handshake and a knife in the back saying, “Don’t worry, John. We’ll figure this out.” No. The biggest question is, “What is his agenda?” And, is he continuing with Pablo #Escobar’s game plan of #WhiteGenocide? If so, then screw your full faith and credit con job. It’s time for whites to lock and load because this ain’t good.
Hermy: Please see my comment immediately above. I say the same to you as to Nancy.
NONE OF THIS MATTERS. Focus on your own business and your own life. And so should Orly. She should go back to cleaning teeth and caring for her children. Life is too short to waste time on worrying about someone whom neither you nor she ever met.
How can you be sure who you met was Barack Obama and not just some black guy you were later told was Barack Obama?
He was born in Hawaii. White genocide? Really that’s your angle the white supremacy angle and how the whites are a poor oppressed minority? #Youarestupid
This article has been updated.
Nancy Ruth Owens:
@Dr. Conspiracy. I can’t say “yes.” Nor, can I say “no” to that. I can only share what I was told. Again, I never met him until we were both around the age of fourteen. What I was told, and, I won’t stand behind it as a truth or lie because I simply don’t know, is that he adopted by a doctor in Tuscon Arizona. My father was stationed in Tuscon and the doctor supposedly was no longer able to take care of him financially for some unknown reason which is why he was moved to Clewiston (FL). Again, the two families were kept separate.
How can you be sure who you met was Barack Obama and not just some black guy you were later told was Barack Obama?
I took the black and white photos of him smoking on the couch. It was around the time that I was studying for my degree in Journalism and I was the Photo-editor at the campus newspaper which was the “Beachcomber.” If you take his high school pictures and put them next to mine, you will see the obvious resemblance. Is this the same person we see today? You tell me. He’s using those photos from 1984 and it is “Obama” who claims that these are his photos of his younger years. So, again, you tell me.
I can only conclude from this latest information that Obama and Oprah and Lance Armstrong are ALL THE SAME PERSON. I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. Paul is dead (at least musically).
Lets see these supposed pictures you took of him. Have you uploaded them anywhere? I didn’t know journalism consisted of you making up any story you thought you could about the president. Hard to tell you anything since you’ve presented no evidence.
Anyone else remember the name of the last crazy person who said they claimed to know Obama as a child but was instead born in Kansas?
“The search for the elusive Connecticut person, born in 1910, who applied for a social-security card in 1977, the number allegedly stolen by Obama, has vexed birthers for some time. They found a fellow born in 1910 from Connecticut, Jean Paul Ludwig.”
I thought he was born in1890 and was 87 when he applied for the SSN.
@ Dr Kenneth Noisewater. Wow! How brilliant you are, not. A degree in Journalism is prima facie evidence of prior knowledge when it comes to libel and slander. It can, and hear me close, BE PURSUED IN A COURT OF LAW WHERE THE JOURNALIST CAN BE JAILED FOR TELLING LIES. I’ve been posting for one, two years now? Connect the dots genius. To date, I’ve seen no injunctions from any court. Explain that one.
I can say “no” to that because Obama’s life story is well-documented. There’s nowhere I can go to verify what you were told and while you might recount a story that is interesting from some point of view (fictional or otherwise), it is not probative.
That and his social security number doesn’t even match Obama’s
Brain slip corrected in the article.
Libel and slander are civil matters, not criminal. Someone would have to care enough about what you said to sue. And who cares what you say? Your argument is that you post on your Facebook page and haven’t been sued, therefore it’s true. That is a powerfuul argument indeed. I am sure every Facebook page contains only truth…
So your excuse for making up stories is that it must be true because the President hasn’t sued you? Wow that’s a stupid excuse for being a #liar. You do know that libel cases are very hard to pursue especially if one is a public person. Take for instance the rumor that Richard Gere had fun time with gerbils. It’s a rumor that has persisted for years and yet he hasn’t sued anyone so in your mind it must be true. Or for instance that people claim we never landed on the moon yet NASA has yet to sue anyone over these claims. Or that people claim Newtown was a hoax yet none of the families have sued people over it. Again I doubt you went to journalism school as simple #logic seems to evade you.
No I don’t profess to be as brilliant as you since you’re the one making up stories in contradiction to other crazy people who have made stories up about the President. They can’t all be true since they’re contradictory.
Did they cover New York Times v. Sullivan in your journalism course?
@ Dr Kenneth Noisewater. “Stanley” is his mother’s name? You chose to believe this? And, no research on the degree in Journalism (’85,PBCC,Lake Worth,Fl)? Say no more. You are a waste of everybody’s time.
Crack Detective Susan Daniels never mentioned him after her search of databases. She actually found two wacky DOBs – one for 1890 and one for 1990. She never talks about the 1990 date. She even omitted it from her affidavit to the Ohio SoS in her ballot challenge.
Yes Stanley Ann is his mother’s name as there is plenty of documentation to prove it. What documentation do you have to prove your claims? Oh I know what a journalism degree is you seem not to know how to use it. Again I notice instead of answering what I said you slither off with an insult #typicalcrazyperson. #NancyOwensisNutters
You’re getting close. I can’t spill everything, but: go deeper. Think “#AsianLandBridge.”
I may have already said too much.
Dr Kenneth Noisewater You are a joke and a waste of time. And, if your real name is Orly Taitz, perhaps there is a reason why the courts don’t take you seriously. Keep stealing that “sheeple” dollar with your four years plus con job. You’re doing great!
Yes we know you are Nancy so instead of answering anything I say you just skip to insults not very #journalistic of you. But hey tell us more how you threw your own mother under the bus in your storytelling.
You know I wouldn’t be surprised if you were really orly taitz. You both have a penchant about lying about your own career. You both seem not to be able to practice things you’ve claimed to study properly. You both seems to operate on the same principal of trying to fool very gullible and stupid people.
#NancyOwens<3sOrlyTaitz
*smile* No, I am not Orly Taitz. Why? Do you want me to be? Do you want me to prove all of this for you? I’m searching for my degree and high school diploma as we speak. And, as for my mother, you can not judge anything without having walked in these shoes. You can try. But, you will never comprehend the truth. You can judge. But, you will never, ever be my peer.
Birthers get to spout their nonsense. Birthers do not get to tear up the Constitution.
Oh wait, your journalism “degree” is from a community college? Well that certainly explains a lot. Lol.
The “public databases” was a skip trace by Albert Hendershot in Alabama a few years back. Al, a supposed debt collected, is the same one who NBC provided an education on how trusts work, especially with real estate. It looks like Hnedershot pulled some SSN report which had one line with Harrison Bounel using Obama’s Chicago address and SSN. It was reported in November 2009 which is rather odd for somebody who was born in 1890, according to Orly.
WND still has the article here:
http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/336889/
And Fogbow discussed it back in 2011
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=5884
Of course we can’t be your peers. Just as I can’t and won’t be the peers of my students. I would never go back that far – my job now is to guide. If you, like the occasional student, don’t want to be guided, then there is never a chance for us to be peers. But it isn’t for lack of trying on our parts. It’s on yours for not reaching higher.
Hey there’s just as much proof you’re orly taitz as your claim that I was or that Obama was born in Florida of a white father and black mother. I’m still waiting for those supposed pictures you took of a young Barack Obama you spoke of yet as shown when asked you never pull through with any proof. I comprehend the truth the problem is the truth is so far away from anything you’ve said. #NancyOwensCrazyPants
Oh how useful and valuable you are. People who think and write like you (and I’m using ‘people’ loosely) are doing a service to America, in making sure the right wing is seen as lunatic racist lugnuts who cannot be trusted to run the country.
When you write incomprehensible, disjointed, racist nonsense in criticizing Obama and his supporters, the vast majority of Americans who are pretty sensible recoil in disgust. They think “well, if his critics are deranged bigots with nothing between their ears but drain cleaner and Cheerios, maybe he’s doing a pretty good job.”
And the dim-wiited, repugnant screeds you publish here and on Facebook are near-permanent. You can’t modify them or explain them, ever. We can copy them and share them with anyone who needs a good laugh, or when we need evidence that Jim Crow-style sociopathy and conspiracy nuttery are a staple of the current right wing in America.
Congratulations, and sincere thanks for demonstrating that Obama and those who voted for him are on the right path, and folks like you are so full of bile and impotent resentment that they have drifted far away from the moorings of sanity.
and all the photos of boy i Hawaii are later forgeries? And the paperwork? But why bother – last I heard, you can run for President if you are Floridian. Nancy you have to explain all this; come on now, try harder!!
wow- the Birthers are just sounding more and more removed from reality.
Birthers used to be entertaining- like Mario for instance- yes they would lie through their teeth and slander dead people but the current batch- John, Hermitian, “Nancy” just come off as if they have been allowed access to the internet in the loony bin computer room- or maybe the San Francisco public library.
LOL @Yoda. OMG! Did you, no…did you actually do research? How can this be? And, the best you can come up with is that it’s from a community college as though somehow this makes a difference? C’mon! I’m uploading my documents to my facebook to save you the trouble of actually “trying” to prove ANYTHING. Again, nice “sheeple” con you people have going here. https://www.facebook.com/molly.n.owens
I don’t for a moment think that Taitz has forged anything – she wouldn’t know how to begin. But it does increasingly seem that what she’s “uncovered” is a series of forgeries by other people intended to make it look as if Obama is the culprit. This would also explain the Bounel connection – one of the birthers glommed onto someone at an address that could be linked to Obama and started using addresses, SSNs etc with the aim of linking the conspiracy to Obama. It’s the only logical explanation, really. I’m sure that if Obama and the “Chicago mafia” really wanted to create a fake identity, they wouldn’t have done it in such a clumsy way
I can come up with a lot better than that. You are not worth better.
So because you upload random ramblings it magically makes them true? Okay Nancy owens was born of a nazi experimentation and are the love child of Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun. It’s on the internet so it must be true.
LOL @Yoda. OMG! Did you, no…did you actually do research? How can this be? And, the best you can come up with is that it’s from a community college as though somehow this makes a difference? C’mon! I’m uploading my documents to my facebook to save you the trouble of actually “trying” to prove ANYTHING. Again, nice “sheeple” con you people have going here. https://www.facebook.com/molly.n.owens
(posted by someone who has “Dr.” in front of their name?) ——->So because you upload random ramblings it magically makes them true? Okay Nancy owens was born of a nazi experimentation and are the love child of Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun. It’s on the internet so it must be true.(This person is a joke. No more. No less). I posted my college degree as well as my high school diploma from Clewiston, Florida. And, if anybody knows Pablo’s history, they know he lived in Clewiston. Not Miami. Not Colombia. Clewiston, period!
https://www.facebook.com/molly.n.owens/photos_stream
Pablo has no relation to Obama. You have more relation to Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun than he has to Pablo Escobar. Besides some other crazy nutter beat you to the punch and made up that Obama was born and raised in Kansas and not florida. She too had been posting these stories for years.
Gosh, you sure do love the word “sheeple” don’t you? Pretty much says it all.
Orly Taitz’s biggest concern is whether or not her Paypal account is working. Four plus years and she’s produced no results. Where can I go to get me some of those “sheeple” dollars? I would’ve proven it by now. But, that’s just me.
I would like to propose a rule that unless your last name begins with “Z,” you should not refer to it as “my Facebook.” Thank you.
Hmmm you too have been at this for a number of years and have yet to produce any results. You and her seem to have a lot in common.
To be fair, I am certain that the Palm Beach Community College education that Nancy received is on par with the the education that Orly got at Taft On Line School of Law and Tattooing.
Is that the place where you show the White Power symbol and say:
Get off my blog. You are not welcome here.
Moving away from the troll and back to the article at hand:
When I checked the Henderschott article on WND (see my comment above), I noticed they made sure to redact the URL for the database he used in 2011. Could it be that, if somebody actually knew where this came from, they might point out the disclaimer and other legal statements from the actual database company?
WND does love to show evidence but intentionally hide where that “evidence” was acquired.
She has posted a letter from the aptly-named Senator Crapo. Basically he tells her to take a hike, but he does stoke the fires a bit and says that it if turns out that Obama is not eligible, then it’s the judicial branch that will fix the problem. I believe this is incorrect, as Judge England cited several cases that make it clear that only Congress can address the eligibility of the President. I suppose, though, that if there was proof of fraud, that could be a judicial matter.
Can these people on this blog be real ? This blog is a group thin blog, isn’t it /
Whewww! the half brains on this blog criticize a person who is a dentist, lawyer, black belt, and speaks five languages, but is damned by the thugs on this blog for not havng a PHD in Englsh…you people are illl in the brain and are probable suffering from a ‘cranial , rectun, inversion.
I didn’t care for the group fat blog.
LOLOL, you’re either a Fogbow member in disguise, or else a genuine talking turnip.
Either way, hilarious!
It might also be that Hendershot was violating the terms of service of the site he was using.
She is the WLITHOTU, and would be even if she spoke and wrote in fluent english. That said, she is still the only person I have ever seen who writes with an accent.
You racist witch, I sincerely hope a big meteorite falls out of the sky, landing right on top of you.
Ugly person.
LOLOL nice!
You have us confused with Jenny Craig.
I am a corporation, but we are people too.
Apparently, a white supremacist advocating genocide . . . and talking turnip.
Ive seen no proof that she is certified as a dentist or went to dental school. The time period in question doesn’t add up. It’s been shown she’s a fraud and doesn’t speak hebrew. I’ve never seen proof she has a black belt or passed the bar.
She is licensed as an attorney, so that is proof that she passed the bar, unless of course you mean that it is possible that someone took the bar for her. Having taken bar exams in 3 different states, I think that this is a difficult thing to accomplish. However given her clear and obvious lack of reading comprehension and lack of understanding of even the most basic of legal concepts, I have to wonder how it is possible that she did pass.
A great example is her most recent Motion for Reconsideration based on the alleged fraud by the attorneys representing the Congress. She seemed to miss two very salient points–1) Service was not effectuated and the attorneys were there as a courtesy, the TRO could not have been granted based on the lack service alone 2) Even if the defendants agreed with her, the Court ruled that it did not have subject jurisdiction, so it would not matter who the attorneys were. But she cannot grasp these two simple truths, both of which make her motion for reconsideration frivolous.
Wrong. Libel/slander/defamation is not a crime. Name the last journalist “JAILED FOR TELLING LIES”.
Quick thought: No one cares what you’ve said.
But that avoids the real problem….you don’t understand the difference between civil and criminal matters and how the legal system works.
“Ruth” also comes from the Bible….so you’re a fake!
She also sells houses mind you!
No, a journalist can’t be jailed merely for telling lies, unless the lies are part of some otherwise criminal matter. You can call your neighbor a liar, a thief and an adulterer, and he can’t have you jailed, although he can sue yout socks off.
Libel is a civil matter, not criminal, and the fact that you haven’t been jailed or had any injunctions issued against you is no evidence that you’re telling the truth. And actually, a journalism degree is not prima facie evidence of libel and slander knowledge. Case in point, you, if you have a journalism degree. Because you wrongly implied that libel is a criminal law matter, when it’s actually civil.
If journalists were jailed for telling lies, WND would be published from Sing Sing.
Should it be a house that lands on Nancy then she’d be the racist witch of the east!
The good dentist is now searching for info on a couple of new Bunnels or Bunel. One,came from Russia and the other named Harry supposedly traveled to Hawaii. I see that she is finding that the surname with various spellings is not uncommon.
T. U. C. S. O. N.
Focus Nancy, focus. In fantasies like yours its the little details that count.
Nothing irritates a Tucsonian (or to some, a Tucsonan) more than somebody who can’t spell the city name properly.
Perhaps you could just keep the story in Getaclue-iston where you are on safer ground.
That’s in Tecksas Nancy!
Taking test on three different bar exams tells me that you are not at all qualified to make statements on what you said below. The fact is that anything done as a ‘courtesy’ would surely get government reps with any testicles to file a “misappropriation” of government funds charge on this ‘courtesy’ action… which is an insane comment.
There are government employees that won’t take a government ball pen off of a government facility… for fear of being charged with theft of government property. The government employees are aware that if they can’t prove what they have is theirs… then they can end up in deep stuff to prove that they don’t have government property… including a paper clip that can be identified as government property.
“Yoda January 19, 2013 at 4:56 pm
–1) Service was not effectuated and the attorneys were there as a courtesy, ”
Dr. K aka Dr. DUMB aka Dr. DUNG.
No proof that someone is a dentist…but the fact is that there’s a record that is accessible to prove the bona fide to practice in the dentistry field, that’s certainty. A law liscense accessible by the public is also available to anyone, but Dr. DUNG or is it Dr. K or Dr. DUMB?
By the same reasoning another person who attempts to be a POTUS and can’t prove who he is in a manner that other people have to prove who they are… surely needs to be treated as a ‘criminal’ until that ‘thing’ in the White House proves what “it” is.
BTW! is this Dr. Dung a NASA person ? Hopefully not because one would certailnly not want to be engaged with anything that he or she had its hands on. Dr. Dung shouldn’t make comments that negatively reflects on ‘its’ skill sets.
No research necessary. You, yourself,said in this very thread it was from a community college in ’85. How much research does it take to interpret “PBCC” as refering to a Community College? I could go further and guess that it is Palm Beach Community College, though without looking it up I’m on considerably thinner ice assuming “Palm Beach” than “Community College”.
Focus, Nancy… FOCUS. The meds haven’t quite kicked in yet have they?
People like you are exactly why Taitz has a following. You are clueless about legal requirements and she speaks the way you would.
You seem to have a awful lot of aliases Nancy or Molly or Ruth or Owens or Owens-Jones or Taitz or whoever you are?
Who do you think you are?
Focus, Nancy Focus.
Obviously you are not familiar with the Orly Taitz school of thought. According to her just having a certificate doesn’t mean anything since she goes about saying Obama’s BC and other documents are obviously forged then we could also conclude any documentation she has must also be forged. The problem is the President has proven who he is and Orly has never been able to prove it.
She’s never shown documents showing her credentials or diplomas and when asked she has refused to.
Oh really? here is what Judge England stated …
“THE COURT: The motion is denied. First of all, you
haven’t — well, we’ll get into the issue of service and the
fact that there are courtesy representations here by counsel,
and that’s been made clear in their opposition.”
Enlighten us by quoting the exact law that says a courtesy representation is misappropriation?
I’m guessing Panera Bread Culinary College.
Are you from Getaclue-iston, Tecksas?
Antelope says — Oooops! C’mon Karl … we can surely see you Karl… maybe you should become a vegan Karl, being a lion don’t suite you anymore Karl. Karl we have night vision binoculars Karl, says the antelopes.
Dr. Dumb, Dung, K or whatever can’t understand that Dr. Taitz records are public records and if he can’t obtaine them, then there’s surely something wrong with him. Furthermore, all that Dr Dung has to do is the same things that Dr. Orly is pursuing… that is put his lazy derriere in gear and prove Dr. Orly isn’t qualified or forged documents to be present in the law and dentistry professions. Dr Dumb, Dung, or K or whatever best be careful because it is claimed that Dr. Taitz is a a black belt capable person and Dr. Tatiz might just ask for him to challenge here in a marshal arts contest, but Dr. Dung, Dumb, K or whatever would surely regret attempting to be in physical contact with Dr. Taitz… or can we say that Dr whatever…. is a chicken to challenge Dr. Taitz?
Dr Kenneth Noisewater
The problem is the President has proven who he is and Orly has never been able to prove it. <<<<<<<<hahahahah what a pile of crap this one is
She’s never shown documents showing her credentials or diplomas and when asked she has refused to. <<<< Dr. Dung or whatever is too stupid to be able to obtain professional licenses for Dr. taitz but has every belief that the White House blob is eligible to be where he is, when no one in the public have seen any of his originals of the 3 forged documents presented to the public. How does Dr. whatever know who is in the governments executive chair in Wa. D.C. ?
“Oh wait, your journalism “degree” is from a community college? Well that certainly explains a lot. Lol.”
It’s also a 2 year degree. An Associate’s in Journalism from a Community College Pulitzer Prize here we come!
No one needs to argue with you…here’s what Judge England said verbatim in court…
“THE COURT:
there is no requirement that there be any type of identification shown at any time for any person to be the President of the United States, as required by the United States Constitution, because the only credible information that this Court has received and has been released was from the Director of the Hawaii Health Department who has
certified and attested to the authenticity of the certified copies of the original certificate of live birth which was published approximately a year and a half ago. That is credible testimony.”
Please don’t tell me that the judge is corrupt!
Despite the birthers having blown up Orly’s martial arts “achievements” to 2nd degree black belt, she did show a certificate for 1st degree.
From experience, this is what I think happened:
Her kids were attending your basic mini-mall Tae Kwon Do dojang.
She joined and proved herself so obnoxious, the master likely sped her along and quickly gave her a black belt just to get rid of her.
Most of these dojangs pump up the prices of their certificates, so they stood to make $500 or so getting rid of her too.
Orly, being the false achiever she is, only really wanted the certificate.
Why do you think we even know about it? She scanned it herself!
But there’s no way Orly has the focus and discipline necessary to excel at TKD.
They have rules and respect as two of their core beliefs.
You seem to think very highly of Orly considering she hasn’t won a single case and continues to beg people for money even though she lives in a multimillion dollar house and uses her husbands money. White house blob? Chris Christie isn’t in the white house yet. Sorry but that’s incorrect even WNDs own Les Kinsolving saw the copy the DOH provided Obama. Reporter Savannah Guthrie even took a picture of it. The Department of Health who issued it says it matches what they gave him so your claims of forgery continue to be funny.
Umm no school records aren’t public information and so I cannot just go on the internet to see her degree certificates. You are relying simply on her word and not something you’ve personally seen.
You do not seem to understand the extra truthy rules of patriot evidence. If it comes from a heavily tanned guy with a muslimy name, you must personally see the original records and than have extra verification of those records with other original records, which still may be suspect. If it comes from a overly peroxided blond from a communist country who hates said tan guy with a musimy name and has knack for finding dishonest and treasonist judges who throw out her brilliant cases, then it is true patriot gospel and too ask for any other proof is treason.
Really, why can’t you understand something this simple?
Dr. Taitz admitted to me over the phone that she had no technical knowledge of electronic documents and had to rely completely on what others told her. I don’t think she has ever claimed any such competence, so there is nothing to disprove.
Do birthers EVER use logic or common sense when they come up with their dingbat conspiracy theories?
It’s stuff like this that continues to amaze me. This Antelope speaks with strong confidence of things that are demonstrably untrue.
The original of Obama’s certificate, released in 2008 was shown to an independent fact-checking organization, FactCheck.org at his campaign headquarters in Chicago. FactCheck.org staffers photographed the original and those photos have been available for over 4 years for anyone who wants to see them.
An original long-form birth certificate was shown to the entire White House press corps in a briefing prior to the Presidents’ announcement on April 27, 2011. NBC White House correspondent Savannah Guthrie said she personally felt the raised seal, and she also took a photo of the original, which she published on the Internet as well.
Birthers are clueless about the real facts, and they are too lazy to independently verify anything for themselves, rather being led around by the nose, like Orly Taitz, by cranks and conspiracy theorists. Then this one has the audacity to say that I should get off my tail and do research, when this fool hasn’t even scratched the surface of the over 2,500 articles published on this site.
Monumental arrogance and monumental ignorance go hand and hand, and the birthers don’t even know the scientific name for their mental defect.
But this is Lady Liberty you’re speaking of! Anyone who doesn’t take her word for it is obviously a traitor. Obviously!!
Uhhh, who is Karl ❓
Well, Orly lied to the court when she said that she had served President Obama in the first place. The hearing where she said that was January 3, and the record of service filed with the court proved it was January 4. In fact, none of the federal defendants had been served by the time of the hearing, nor the California defendants according to them. The US Attorney showed up as a courtesy to the court. As for Obama, Orly Taitz served the Attorney General with the Obama complaint. So 1) she hadn’t served anybody as of January 3, and 2) even afterwards she only served Obama as a federal defendant. She may SAY that she was suing in his private capacity, but until she actually serves the complaint in his private capacity, she isn’t suing anybody.
Four years Orly Taitz has been unable to figure out how to serve President Obama in his private capacity, and she still hasn’t figured it out. She screwed it up in Keyes v. Bowen and she screwed it up in Grinols. She is a totally incompetent attorney, and so say the several attorneys who comment on this blog and elsewhere.
You, on the other hand, wouldn’t know how to tell your ass from a hole in the ground.
Under what American law can a Journalist or anyone be jailed for “telling lies,” Please do tell. I’m very interested.
It’s from a GEICO commercial. Antelopes are using night vision goggles to observe a lion named Carl.
http://youtu.be/KtV-Ddfrwhs
Indeed. Life plus eternity!
I too am “wondering”, specifically about your theories that: (1) sitting for the bar in multiple jurisdictions somehow renders an attorney unqualified to make statements about the law, and (2) a U.S. Attorney’s courtesy appearance in federal Cour amounts to a misappropriation of government property, where Plaintiff has repeatedly attempted to serve the Defendants–albeit inartfully and ineffectively–in care of the U.S. Attorney, .
As for Ms. Taitz, I can see on the internet that she is listed as an active member of the CA Bar. But, is that really convincing? I mean, as we all know, the internet also shows that Obama is actively President of the U.S. and born in Hawaii. Indeed, Ms. Taitz has alleged that the state and federal courts in California (and throughout the nation) are complicit in vast criminal conspiracies; does that not make you wonder whether such conspiracies extend to Ms. Taitz’s alleged bar status in CA? After all, some sources that have suggested that she is a member of the KGB and/or the Russian mob and/or Mossad. Some have wondered whether there are actually three people named Orly Taitz–so which one was in Mondolva, which one was in Israel, and who is the one who has a (or many???) social security number here in the US and is now holding herself out as a so-called attorney? And, as you may know, Ms. Taitz is currently looking for a Sam Cohen who may have once known someone who once knew the First Lady’s great great grandmother. Her supporters have identified many Sam Cohens of varous ages and locations. But, the question remains, how many Sam Cohens have lived near someone Ms. Taitz’s family has known, and why might she be helping the KGB to find them? Just “wondering”.
She posted a photo of her diploma on Facebook. It’s a general Associate in Arts degree.
Reported to Facebook as hate speech and a violation of terms of service.
Response:
Thank you for your report. The photo you reported violates our community standard on hate speech, so we removed it. We let Molly Nancy Owens know that his photo has been removed, but not who reported it (Facebook never discloses who submits a report).
Nice try… all that is below and written by Dr. Deception… king of disinformation, hasn’t got one element of truth in it. The issue is an attorney employed by the FEDS who says that he is there in the court as a courtesy…. to someone… not addressed to courtesy for the court… Get with it Dr. Deception… BTW! are you paid by the “dung” in the White House? Just a question…that’s all. AND! if anyone can believe that any attorney could know all the laws in various states and federal laws,too, then why wouldn’t officers of the court who post crap on this blog ‘honor’ their sworn oaths to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and join in with another officer of the court who is dead set on jailing the usurper?
“Well, Orly lied to the court when she said that she had served President Obama in the first place. The hearing where she said that was January 3, and the record of service filed with the court proved it was January 4. In fact, none of the federal defendants had been served by the time of the hearing, nor the California defendants according to them. The US Attorney showed up as a courtesy to the court. As for Obama, Orly Taitz served the Attorney General with the Obama complaint. So 1) she hadn’t served anybody as of January 3, and 2) even afterwards she only served Obama as a federal defendant. She may SAY that she was suing in his private capacity, but until she actually serves the complaint in his private capacity, she isn’t suing anybody.
Four years Orly Taitz has been unable to figure out how to serve President Obama in his private capacity, and she still hasn’t figured it out. She screwed it up in Keyes v. Bowen and she screwed it up in Grinols. She is a totally incompetent attorney, and so say the several attorneys who comment on this blog and elsewhere.
You, on the other hand, wouldn’t know how to tell your ass from a hole in the ground.”
Regarding the surname “Bounel,” the Social Security Death Index lists one person with that name – Golf Bounel, who died in Maryland in 1988. His SSN was 216-18-5664.
Elsewhere I see references to one person named “Bounel” in Massachusetts and two in Louisiana. No “Harrison Bounel” anywhere.
LexisNexis has no record of Harrison Bounel. There is a record of man named Harry E. Bounel, but on closer examination this is a misspelling. The man’s name is actually Harry Bonnel.
Contrary to what Orly says, there is no connection between anyone with the surname “Bounel” and the state of Connecticut.
The hypocrisy is strong with this one…Along with the 3rd grade level insults. Wow. Do you not realize how ridiculous you sound?
At least we know how to use the QUOTE function.
The guy whose signature appears in the article appears in the 1910 census as being 50 years old, and born in Connecticut. One might conclude that the name is Harry L Bonnel or Harry L Bounel.
Just a simple misunderstanding — no doubt! — of what the word “public” means.
Antelope, not only public nuisances are public! Not only the people crying, look at me! They also are public who y look and see. To tweak John Milton’s poem which we can rename “On [Their] Blindness.”
When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one talent which is death to hide
Lodg’d with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide,
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies: “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts: who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is kingly; thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er land and ocean without rest:
They also serve who only stand and wait.”
Pick one name and stick to it
Antelope
Deception LOSES
lis pendens
WOT!
or I’ll ban you.
This question is answered elsewhere on the blog. Too lazy to go looking?
Just a simple misunderstanding — no doubt! — of what the word “public” means.
Antelope, not only public nuisances are public! Not only the people crying, look at me! They also are public who actually look and see.
To tweak John Milton’s poem which we can rename “On [Their] Blindness.”
When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one talent which is death to hide
Lodg’d with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide,
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies: “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts: who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is kingly; thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er land and ocean without rest:
They also serve who only stand and wait.”
I think what Taitz was possibly getting at was that if the US Attorney couldn’t represent Obama, then he was unrepresented, and hence in some sort of default. The problem, of course, is that Obama had not been served, and needn’t have appeared at all. Indeed, as I see it, if no one had showed up, Orly would still have lost because she failed to provide proof of service.
Nothing that the US Attorney did applied uniquely to Barack Obama. There was no extra work just putting Obama’s name along with the other federal defendants.
Yes, it is ridiculous. Try to cultivate an air of bemusement.
Orly Taitz was in charge of serving you?
Bazinga!
It’s more likely that his name was Bonnel. I see 67 phone listings in the U.S. for the surname Bonnel but none for Bounel.
Ancestry.com lists the man who was born in 1860 and who lived in New Haven in 1910 as “Harry S. Bonnel (Harry S. Bounel).” They seem to believe that the middle initial, which looks to us to be the letter L, is actually the letter S. They may be right – his middle initial on the census looks a lot like the letter S in some fancy scripts.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_r_f-2_s&gsfn=Harry&gsln=Bounel&uidh=000
—
I agree with what you’ve said; the US attorney did not appear in Court to represent the President and there is no indication that he spend a dime in that direction. The Judge would likely have noted that no affidavits of service had been filed and, accordingly, no TRO would have been granted, although the Court might have continued the matter for a later date (and more inevitable confusion and further waste of valuable judicial resources).
I also note that Ms. Taitz failed to properly name and serve the other defendants (e.g., each member of Congress, each member of the electoral college) but instead she improperly named “Congress” and “Electoral College” as if they were two corporate entities, and attempted to effect service upon them by sending all the complaints and summonses to the US Attorney. My point is that any attorney who received all of these documents would likely have appeared in Court to clarify the matter for the Court, as a courtesy to the Court, as Officers of the Court. And, indeed, by sending all of this to the U.S. Attorney, it is ludicrous for her to now complain that he showed up for court. I am not a U.S. attorney–just a common litigation attorney–so perhaps I speak out of turn. But if I were to receive all such documents as if I were the point of service (albeit improper service), I would likely make some limited appearance in Court, lest the Court wonder where I am and what the h*ll is going on. (It is our duty to take federal court judges very seriously!) Now, par for the course, Ms. Taitz et al. are complaining that the US attorney made this limited appearance. She also is incensed that the U.S. Attorney did not identify/contact and consult with each and every member of Congress and the electoral college (all of whom she failed to identify and serve) before making the limited appearance for the TRO. Indeed, she has falsely accused the U.S. attorney of making a fraudulent appearance on behalf of each of them, and has improperly engaged her supporters to contact and question (and harass) each of them, upon pain of being labeled co-conspirators to treason… She has also filed an emergency motion to reconsider, threatening the Judge as a co-conspirator… She is remarkably incompetent and unethical, and absolutely begging for sanctions/fines.
BTW, I appreciate your website which has answered many of my own questions.
This thread reminds me of how I spent Friday on my job. Dysfunctional people call a county number, and they are referred to me. I listen to brain germ theories, medication conspiracy theories, satanic ritual theories, 2nd amendment & whatever that one world order theory is called… If I can get one clear statement of a resolvable problem from the caller, I can help with a referral. But that’s a rare event.
I don’t hate the callers. I’m very sad that they live in a scarey and out of control world where evil, terrifying things are happening all the time. It’s a terrible way to live. I do my best to move them to a better life, when I can. That’s not often, I’m sorry to say. Mental health care is underfunded and much maligned. It’s not a lifestyle choice. These people are in pain and scared of the demons raging at them.
Personally, I rage at the lack of real healthcare in this supposedly modern country that neglects its residents with illness, aka mental illness. It’s been on full display on this thread.
Its not that unusual. There are a lot of men in Ireland with the second name Mary, for example Gay Byrne, a very successful Irish broadcaster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Byrne
Nobody expects an attorney to “know all the laws in the various state and federal laws,too. [sic]” However, attorneys are legally and ethically bound to know the laws and procedures that apply to their cases. Orly Taitz practices in federal court. It’s her responsibility to know the rules for proper service and to properly serve defendants. There is no defense for her continued incompetence. Loons like her sue the president all the time and many of them properly serve him.
Oh, and, as for the “jailing the usurper” nonsense–there is no usurper. Barack Obama was *elected* President. Maybe you remember. He beat that cranky McCain guy in 2008 and that amoral Romney guy just a few months ago. It was in all the papers.
ORYR’s post on this topic has the person that actually found the census ripping Oily’s butt for misleading her readers.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-york-census-confirms-obama-alias.html
Reading it its more that he is raging that Orly screaming about it alerted the conspiracy which will now slam the doors shut on all the info they were failing to find anyway despite 3 months of trying. So its Orly’s fault they failed. You see.
I think you forgot Wondering.
So if you were using Uncle Harry’s SSN wouldn’t you change the middle initial? By the way it also looks like as S.
I never met Einstein either but I sure met his Theory of Relativity. There are 10s of thousands of books on his theories. I also never met Newton but I met his three laws of motion. One of them applies to all Obots. Without a kick in the pants they will continue on their path of lies.
Were that true, Fox News would go dark.
We all know that Astrue is stonewalling all efforts to determine the rightful owner of Obama’s purported SSN. Moreover, it’s very likely that the SSN has a file on Harrison ? Bounel. Because he is certainly deceased if born in 1890, his information is no longer private. Consequently the SSN should honor requests for his records rather than hiding them from the investigators. There is great suspicion that the SSN has also illegally destroyed records. The American people have a right to know the truth because it’s a fact that uncle Harry and Obama shared several different addresses.
If you really do believe Dr. Taitz is violating Federal law why don’t you sue her? That would make her day. By the way who deputized you to enforce Federal laws? Should we start referring to you as Marshall Conspiracy?
People who have no defense always hide behind technicalities and duck service everyway they can. Obama has done that for over four years. It’s starting to wear a little thin with the American people who never get any breaks.
And then they hear that Obama is now requiring universal background checks for all weapon purchases. And then they remember that Obama has never had a background check yet he is the President. And then they get mad.
And then they wonder. Did Obama ever apply for a hand gun permit? If so wouldn’t his application be public record? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….
I lack standing to bring a suit. Me bringing suit against Taitz for conspiracy would be about as stupid as her suing Obama over being President.
It is certainly possible that the Social Security system has a file on Harry Bounel (the one born in Russia in 1910 and working as a laborer in New York in 1940). All you need to do is get some documentation that he is deceased and then fill out form on the SSA web site to get a copy of his SS-5. They charge a nominal fee. I’ve never had any problem getting these.
The one born in Connecticut in 1860 likely does not have a social-security record.
Objection, your Honor. Assumes a fact not in evidence.
No, it does not look like an “S.” An “S” wouldn’t have the lower stroke to the right. This is easily verified by looking at the letter “S” on other entries on the form.
If you don’t have anything to say, why don’t you just stay quiet.
This is a principle that I am coming to appreciate. Keyes v. Obama could have been dismissed for lack of service, but Judge Carter intervened to get the service accomplished. I was expecting dismissal; however, dismissal for lack of service is without prejudice and the Plaintiffs could just bring it again. It was more efficient to deal with the problem rather than push it out.
BTW, thanks for your comments. Since I am not a lawyer, it’s helpful for those who are to comment and keep me straight.
Yes, I do. I even got a copy of her SS-5 application from Social Security to verify it. (BTW, I’ve banned Ms Owens for linking favorably to racist content.)
So thin we reelected him.
People harassed for no valid cause by vexatious litigants do the same thing.
Has anyone yet cornered the market on “I am Harrison J. Bounel” t-shirts?
So not it is the President’s fault that birthers can’t figure out how to effectuate service and do not have standing, that the Courts do not have subject matter jurisdiction?
Note to birthers, the law is what it is, not what you want it to be.
“…They ask the court to STRETCH the Constitution’s meaning to find requirements for serving as President that exist nowhere in the document, and because they ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch.”… Judge England (Page 8)
You Birthers are the enemies and you’re the usurpers!
Aside from everything else, there are two fundamental differences between birthers and birther debunkers. The first is that birther debunkers respect the law and the legal process. if, per chance, the Supreme Court ever decided a case against birther debunkers we might disagree with it, we might ask Congress to act, but we would respect it as the law of the law. On the other hand, Birthers would cry treason and corruption and call for an arm revolt if the reverse were to happen.
The second is that birther debunkers, want birthers to stop and go away. Birthers want us dead.
Thank the good lord that birthers have never shown any ability to organize.
I want Orly to be treated as humanely as possible, I’d want her committed in a mental institution say Fairview Developmental Center in Costa Mesa or Lanterman maybe?
Did you have a visit from those men in black?
Paranoids can’t form groups.
“We” as in you Birthers? “Stonewalling” as in Astrue follows the law while you Birthers want to USURP the law?
Oh no, you’re so wrong! I talked to him yesterday. He is in Shangrila with liv Ullman
Michelle Obama is an adamant advocate for a healthy America, sooo thin away Hermy, thin away!
HERMI!!! The first thing I recommend you do, is check on how the SSA keeps records, then see where the holes are. A great analytical mind such as yours will have no problem figuring that one out. Now, then you have to put all your evidence together and start bugging every single Republican Congressperson every single day for the next 4 years…because, as explained by Judge Carter 4 years ago and Judge England last week, CONGRESS is the only Constitutionally legal government agency that can get rid of President Obama for you. So, Hermi, you’re wasting your time here. Get busy, write, call, text, send letters, go to Washington and see them…every single Republican Congressperson every single day. No way they can ignore you and then you can finally get the President out of office. Of course, this is sort of a good news-bad news thing…because then you’re gonna be stuck with President Biden. GOOD LUCK!
You know I have never quite understood how he gets caught up in this – no Kenyan he, tho I suspect far more of a socialist than President Obama.
Is anyone challenging him as NBC? Or is it just that he is an aider-and-abettor, an enabler or facilitator, and by golly he must be in the know and a conspirator? And of course a Democrat…..
But really, why do birthers always ignore him?
A WHOPPER OF DISINGENUOUS CONTRIBUTION TO THIS BLOG BY ONE OF THE MANY ‘USEFUL IDIOTS’ (aka St. James) DESCRIBED BY LENIN long ago.
________________________________
“Saint James January 20, 2013
“They ask the court to STRETCH the Constitution’s meaning to find requirements for serving as President that exist nowhere in the document, and because they ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch.”… Judge England (Page 8)
You Birthers are the enemies and you’re the usurpers!”
__________________________________
For the St. James dunce who has irrelevant comments.
The American citizen is endowed with “unalienable rights” on the Federal level, and “inalienable rights” on another level in the political system, therefore and being that an “unalienable right” cannot be taken away from or surrendered by any American citizen it means that the White House piece of “bat dung” needs to fess up with his bona fides to be where he is. AND! go learn the difference between the “naturalized” and citizen at birth legal descriptions.
The American Constitution is the >:>informed<> ‘implied'<< constitutional right is where the American citizens have the lawful requirement that the White House 'teleprompter dummy' play acting as POTUS has to prove who he is.
Saint James January 20, 2013
"They ask the court to STRETCH the Constitution’s meaning to find requirements for serving as President that exist nowhere in the document, and because they ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch.”… Judge England (Page 8)
You Birthers are the enemies and you’re the usurpers!"
Orly and two supporters showed up for her Washington, DC inaugural protest.
As DUNCE demonstrates above, it’s possible to type a lot of letters and say nothing, especially when using cap lock.
Try getting a real job without one.
As for why someone would use someone else’s SSN with their own name, I draw a blank. Since it’s Orly et al who allege a crime, the onus is on them to provide a motive (as well as actual evidence that the “crime” ever happened).
Thousands of illegal aliens do it every day. Where have you been all your life?
Sigh.
No, they don’t. They use someone else’s social security-number with somebody else’s name on it. The law requires employers to check social-security numbers with the federal e-Verify system which will immediately flag a mismatch between name and number.
Do you even try to think before you write stuff?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/president-obama-sworn-in-for-a-second-term.php?ref=fpa
Read it and weep, Hermy. It’s over. You wasted 4 years, 1/20 or so of a normal lifespan. Do you really want to waste the next 4? That would make 1/10. Think hard
As I noted above (1/19 10:04 AM), the child of a US citizen is NEVER an illegal alien. So why would they use someone else’s SSN with their own name? Answer: They would not.
Your “cause” is over Hermy. Try to do better in the 2016 election, because your candidate sucked big time in 2012.
Don’t let them upset you Hermi…you got 4 more years to work on the pubs in Congress! Go get them, I’m sure Orly will be glad to act as your attorney. Don’t let them pubs go a single day without knowing you’re there!
Nope! You have to wear clothes to use the computers in our library.
So you lack standing to sue Taitz but you have standing to post that she is a criminal all over the internet? Why don’t you just mind your on business.
If I were you I would reflect long and hard on that. We now know that you forged an Obama LFCOLB in August 2009 almost two years before Obama claims to have requested and received two certified copies of his genuine long form Certificate of Live Birth from the HDOH. Maybe you would like to explain to your readers why you did that?
Everyone has standing to express their opinion (although I sometimes reflect long and hard on why I let some people express particularly irresponsible ones on this site).
I didn’t “forge” an Obama birth certificate; I presented what was known at the time about what the certificate should look like, should it ever be released, in a graphic format. It was always labeled in big red letters as “RECONSTRUCTION.”
Is this an exercise on how long I will let you tell lies on this site before I become disgusted and ban you?
I must have pushed the wrong button! What’s so disingenuous and irrelevant by quoting what Judge England said?
Let me reiterate and this is definitely relevant to you Birthers. It also says “Wake up, smell the coffee, throw your temper tantrums any which way you want, call him names, but the fact that he is your president remains!
You become the domestic enemies when you try to interpret the Constitution your way. You’re trying to impose your will through our court system by (according to Judge England) STRETCHING the meaning of the Constitution.
You call Obama the usurper but can’t prove it! However, it’s you who are trying to (according to Judge England) ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch!
He already did! And oh, the court already has Obama’s bona fides! Let me again quote Judge England:
“the only credible informationthat this Court has received and has been released was from the Director of the Hawaii Health Department who has certified and attested to the authenticity of the certified copies of the original certificate of live birth which was
published approximately a year and a half ago. That is credible testimony.”
YOU! go and learn the difference between naturalized and natural born citizens legal descriptions. Avoid reading any scribbled by Mario Apuzzo. It will mislead you. His advocacy already lost in court eons of years ago!
May I request this of you! I respect and abide by the rules of this blog and that to avoid picking fights, insults and ad hominems. If you want to duke it out, let’s go to another site. Not here! We can even do it infront of Orly’s dental office if you’re from Southern California!
He explained what he was doing…….three and a half years ago:
“I took a birth certificate from 1963 and reconstructed a Barack Obama birth certificate with the most accurate content I could. I did not attempt to make a forgery: the fonts don’t match exactly and the security paper background is obviously cut and pasted.”
So….Hermitian…..how about an explanation from you on why you chose today to lie about what he did three and a half years ago?
The above is an IRRELEVANT response to what I posted in response to DeceptionLOSES: Let me repost…
I noticed that all caps are written to (obviously) yell at and/or intimidate! What
Didn’t realize was that his response was so revealing in that what Judge England said smack them squarely on their faces. The court/s will not answer political questions and the Birthers chose the wrong venue!
attempted to silence me with his all caps and his “unalienable rights” irrelevant bull caca. I’m now fired up to quote over and over and over what Judge England said and wrote!
Did you get permission from FactCheck.org to use their Obama BC # off their forged COLB or did you just steal it? Or maybe you got it from Onaka as a special request? Which was it?
Let’s get someting straight here CO. What Mr. C. did is a violation of Hawaii law. Let’s just hope he didn’t play around with the seal and registrar stamps. That one is a separate felony. Only the Director of Health of Hawaii is authorized to create a Hawaii birth certificate.
Gee Hermi. I would think that someone who is trying to pass himself off as qualified to determine whether a document is a forgery–as you are–would know that forgery requires an intent to deceive. Clearly, Doc did not intend to deceive with the birth certificate he created. It says “reconstruction” on it.
Wrong again.
Undocumented aliens rarely use their own name with another person’s Social Security Number, because it is impossible to get away with it for more than a short period of time. The first time that withholding payments are made to the IRS a name-SSN mismatch would be noted. The only way to get away with using another person’s SSN is to also use that person’s name.
This is the fundamental flaw with the assertions that Obama has been using another person’s SSN. When income tax returns are filed, the IRS matches the name and SSN with the Social Security Administration’s records. If the name and SSN do not match, the tax return is rejected. Obama has released his tax returns for the past 12 years. He couldn’t possibly have successfully filed those tax returns if the SSN on his returns did not match the Social Security Administration’s records.
Gee Tinker! Maybe you could ask Mr. C. to explain how he “reconstructed” a LFCOLB for Obama without ever having seen Obama’s original birth certificate? How does one “reconstruct” something that doesn’t exist yet. That’s a pretty neat trick.
And SAD’s signature is a work of art. Even SAD herself had to double back and add the “Stanley” after the fact.
But the facts are that Mr. C. fraudulently created a certified copy on green safety paper before Obama’s only two certified copies ever existed. He cleverly cropped the edges to eliminate any sign of certifying elements on the front side. I wonder what’s on the back side? I guess we’ll never know. Mr. C. probably has a drawer full of that green basket-weave safety paper.
So if Mr. C. didn’t steal his Obama BC# from the FactCheck.org then he is clairvoyant. Or else Mr. C. has Alvin Onaka’s phone number in his Roladex.
This is a clear case of abuse of the word “RECONSTRUCTED”.
AGREED! WELL SAID!!!
It really is as simple as that. We are simply a reaction to the stupidity that Birthers cause . That’s all there is to it.
The Social Security Death Index has no record of anyone named “Harry Bounel” or “Harry Bonnel.”
For what it’s worth, there is a record of Harrison Bonnel, who was born in 1897 and died in 1978. But he had a SSN with a New Jersey prefix.
HARRISON BONNEL
Born 9 Jul 1897
Died Sep 1978
Last Residence Fort Lauderdale, Broward, FL 33308
136-12-6935
Wow. What a failed straw-man that is!
Hey clueless – guess what: Obama didn’t become President until in his 40’s. That means he spent many years of his adult life doing things that most people do without any problem: filing taxes, getting married, driving a car, working jobs, etc.
So yeah, just like most people, he would have been providing his valid SSN, without incident or problem, countless times…
*duh*…
But hey, keep throwing a bitter little tantrum today. Obviously, the official start of his NEW and second four-year term really has your little panties in a bunch…
The FBI has a stated policy that they do not perform background checks on the President elect.
The quality of the trolls on this site has been slipping noticeably the last several weeks; I think a few borderline cases are decompensating. I am not kidding.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
There is no place in Federal law, Constitutional or otherwise, or on any other legal level, that endows such rights, and the possession of those rights has nothing to do with being an American citizen. Period.
Those inalienable ‘rights’ are endowed by the very condition of existence; of being human; of being sentient; of being a conscious being. As such, they are ‘rights’ that are due respect in the person of every human being, American or not. If a person is a human being, Of course they cannot be taken away or surrendered; they are part of the commonality of existence of all humans.
Those inalienable rights are of course existence itself (life), control over your own existence (liberty), and gaining the the maximum subjective benefit from existence (the pursuit of happiness).
You will find none of those rights listed in the Constitution because the Constitution is a political document describing a framework for Government, not a moral treatise giving a rationale for revolution.
You will also find that these inalienable rights are quite foreign (alien) to members of some other societies, and furthermore that every society on Earth, including American society, has always denied some or all of those listed inalienable rights. It doesn’t mean that they don’t exist, but society denies them non-the-less.
Every time a prisoner is executed or an enemy bombed, the inalienable right to existence is taken away. Every time a person is enslaved or wrongly imprisoned, the inalienable right to control over one’s own existence and the pursuit of happiness is taken away.
And by the way, ‘unalienable’ is just an alternate spelling for ‘inalienable’. Same word different spelling. Just saying.
You contradicted yourself BLOG GUANO. You may not coerse the President to fess up with his bona fides. Even a “bat dung” has inalienable rights too!
“THE COURT:… there is no requirement that there be any type of identification shown at any time for any person to be the President of the United States, as required by the United States Constitution,…” Judge England
Today’s inauguration (and tomorrow’s celebration thereof) are the big endgames of all their fruitless efforts.
So they haz a big sad….
Thus, the increase in troll tantrums and incoherent nonsense from their crowd here…
(Plus the additional links of recent stories about Doc and his site)…
Give it a few days or more for the tantrums to subside and I suspect we’ll see a lot of troll activity drop off significantly…
BRAVO!!! Well put!
You said “NEVER” received a background check, not just as President elect. What is your evidence that Obama NEVER received a background check?
Just idle speculation, perhaps plausible.
This conspiracy theory stuff has damaged your brain.
Source….please? A check of the FBI website fails to produce any such policy.
—
Exactly. And bear in mind that the TRO was just the initial proceeding in this case; Ms. Taitz hopes to take the case all the way to trial, which would cost everyone–including the Court–a lot of time and a fortune. (Our federal courts are already overwhelmed and rely on diminishing federal tax dollars; funny how birthers complain about the cost of a US Attorney, while making endless demands upon our courts).
With this in mind, what is actually most efficient is not always intuitively obvious at the start; one learns a lot by observing how the case unfolds. For example, at first glance, one could wonder whether the Judge was efficient by holding a full TRO hearing (due to his “abundance of caution”) when, as the Judge explained, he had the discretion to reach his decision on the written pleadings alone–without the expense of a hearing. And, as you’ve noted, he could have simply denied the TRO for lack of service–albeit without prejudice.
However, in doing things this way, the Judge now already has a hearing transcript and well-reasoned written court order–filled with fact and law, including language that states that he has reviewed all the ‘expert’ affidavits/evidence/arguments submitted by Ms. Taitz, and that he has considered legal precedent and similar cases from other jurisdictions. As such, with one TRO motion, the Judge probably already has enough substance to quickly draft a final dispositive opinion (when the time is right) with a simple cut-and-paste job (and without further discovery/hearing/trial, and with prejudice!). I expect he will do so, once a properly served defendant appears with a motion to dismiss or motion for summary judgment. His “abundance of caution” also demonstrates his extra effort to give a full public hearing on the matter for the benefit of the public interest (meanwhile rendering a full public trial only redundant/unnecessary) and this will help keep the matter from being overturned on appeal. Also, notably, Ms. Taitz has already effectively demonstrated bad faith by making misrepresentations about service (detailed in the transcript and footnoted in the order), and in her other unfounded/unprofessional accusations of corruption/conspiracy/treason–all of which provides a basis for ordering sanctions upon her (if the Judge is so inclined) that will also likely survive upon appeal. In sum, it seems to me that the Judge’s work is almost done, very quickly/efficiently.
This is just my initial 2 cents on the matter. We will see how it actually unfolds.
How does that work, Hermitian, if the name and Social Security number on the tax return don’t match?
How many illegal aliens file tax returns?
Please cite the specific section of Hawaii law that you think the good Doctor violated.
I’m not sure what you mean by “quality” in a troll. An effective troll gets people to arguing with the troll to the point that the usual substantive discussion is drowned out.
I ban people like that.
“Steal”? Wanna cite a statute?
When he was a US Senator Obama served on the “United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs” and the “Foreign Relations Committee”, among others.
Do you really think the Committee on Homeland Security wouldn’t check him out before letting him serve? That no checks were done at all?
Like you I thought that was true but actually members of Congress, the President and Vice President and federal judges are not requited to have security clearances.
Here is a report that outlines the situation by the Congressional Research Service from 2011:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RS20748.pdf
Granted, this if off topic, but I do not see any attempt to back up your claim with any proof. This is perfect example that you will swallow anything without a shred of proof if it conforms to your bias against the President, and apparently, immigrants. You demand proof upon proof for anything from the President, but have no problem making a bold claim with absolutely nothing to back up you claim.
Why don’t you just admit that you hate Obama and no facts will ever change that. I would be curious though, how you have come to hate him if your are glad to except anything to feed your hate. What came first, the evidence or the hate? Are there reasons you are not telling us?
It is very typical for fringe movements to get smaller and nuttier over time. I think this is what we are seeing. The people who still believe birfer nonsense are the most reality-deficient of the Obama-haters. All the rest of the RWNJs have moved on.
This article has been updated again.
“PUBLIC HEALTH REGULATIONS
Department of Health, State of Hawaii
Chapter 8B
VITAL STATISTICS REGISTRATION AND RECORDS
“(3) Unauthorized Certified Copies
Except as authorized by these regulations and other applicable law,
no person shall prepare or issue any record which purports to be an
original or certified copy of a certificate of birth, death. fetal death
(stillbirth), marriage or divorce. The penalties for violation of this
section shall be as set forth in Section 338-30 of the Hawaii Revised
Statutes.”
“338-30 Penalties. (a) Except where a different penalty is provided in this part, any person who violates this part, or neglects or refuses to perform any of the duties imposed upon the person by this part, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Any person who wilfully makes or alters any certificate or certified copy thereof provided for in this part except in accordance with this part, shall be fined not more than $1,000, or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(c) Any person, who knowingly transports, or accepts for transportation, interment, or other disposition, a dead body without an accompanying permit issued in accordance with this part, shall be fined not more than $500.
(d) Any person who presents false information in order to obtain access to or a certified copy of a vital record for which the person is not eligible is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not more than $1,000. [L 1949, c 327, 33; RL 1955, 57-33; HRS 338-30; am L 1977, c 118, 2; gen ch 1985]
Cross References
Classification of offense and authorized punishment, see 701-107, 706-640, 663.”
“338-43 Perjury. Any applicant or any person who gives or offers any false testimony, oral or written, under oath, in support or respect of any application for a certificate under section 338-41, shall be deemed guilty of perjury and shall be punishable accordingly. [L 1911, c 96, 2; RL 1925, 197; RL 1935, 7611; RL 1945, 12911; RL 1955, 57-44; HRS 338-44; ren L 1972, c 66, 1(6)]
Cross References
Perjury and related offenses under the Penal Code, see 710-1060 to 710-1069.5.”
I find nothing in the regulation or the law that excuses a violator who puts a label of “RECONSTRUCTION” on his fraudulent creation at some unknown point in the act of creating it.
Do you ever grow weary of being wrong? Apparently not.
IRS Rejection Error Code 0500 or R0000-500:
Primary Social Security Number and Primary Name Control of the Tax Form must match data from the IRS Master File.
or
The primary taxpayer’s Social Security number and last name does not match the IRS’s records. The IRS receives this information from the Social Security Administration.
A Federal income tax return will not be accepted by the IRS if the name and SSN on the return do not match the Social Security Administration’s records. End of story.
What part of “certified copy” do you not understand?
It wasn’t presented as an “original or certified copy………” Quite the opposite in fact.
Don’t you read this stuff before you rush to post it?
Doc did not create a certificate, he created a mockup of what such a certificate might look like.
Doc’s mockup does not carry a certification, therefore it is not a certificate. Period.
It clearly stated that it was a ‘reconstruction’ of what such a document might superficially look like.
It was not put forth as an “original or certified copy” when it wasn’t, because it wasn’t.
It was not even put forrh as an image of an “original or certified copy” because it wasn’t that either.
You are not even pretending to be serious anymore; you’re just typing to see your own poop on display.
Then, besides what others have pointed out to you, try looking up the word “purports” in the dictionary.
“They found a fellow born in 1910 from Connecticut, Jean Paul Ludwig.”
He’s a big name in drums.
Clearly, he is a wizard. I would not meddle in his affairs.
“(b) Any person who wilfully makes or alters any certificate”
What part of “any certificate” do you not understand? You stated that you took a 1963 certificate and modified it. That’s a clear violation of Hawaii regulations and law. Whose 1963 Hawaii certificate did you acquire and modify? Did you acquire this person’s certificate legally? Did you have his permission to modify it to create one for Obama? Did you use his BC#? If not how did you modify the person’s number?
You see where this is headed Mr. C.?
Yes, I see where it is going. You are going to continue to try to pick a fight until I ban you. OK. You’re banned.
First, there is no certificate. There is a JPG file which is nothing more than an image. The image I used, primarily for the form and security paper, is one from the Internet for someone named “Alan,” on which most of the information which was black marked out before publication. Second, what I created does not “purport” to be a certificate.
With your argument, I could draw a mustache on a picture of President Obama, and you would say I had altered the President.
Read your own regulation
“no person shall prepare or issue any record which purports to be an
original or certified copy of a certificate of birth”
His did not purport to be an original or certified copy.
See where this is headed?
Note: Hermitian is continuing to post, but I’m just deleting the stuff now. At first I thought that Hermitian had something to contribute since he, after all, had some skill in looking at the internals of PDF documents, and I thought perhaps that he just wasn’t expressing well what he was trying to argue in the Mississippi Defense filing. What I found, though, was a full-spectrum bundle of crazy, unable to engage in a rational conversation, but always on the attack. Sometimes the best way to deal with a nutcase is to back away.
Well, here you pretty much have summarized the tenor of most, if not all, of Hermitian’s arguments in one fell swoop anyway. At least he departs well understood.
Why waste time on this blog with obots who can’t think for themselves, nor can they come to reasonable conclusions on how to address indisputable facts of fraud provided by the greatest evil, now in America’s house, and that America has ever experienced. It’s a waste to even begin to attempt to alter the ‘we gotta have a black president’ mindset so prevalent on this blog.
Saint ?? and JD and may others are all locked in as true bummers, too. All that legal mumbo jumbo stuff is exactly what it is, ‘stuff’, or crap full of legalisms that are conjured up to avoid taking action against their racist associates who want a black jerk in office. the “useful idiots” voted color and ignored the law…their rights to have an eligible and trustworthy POTUS.
There are many black intellectuals who could have made a great POTUS and they would not have had to spend 2.5 million to hide their credentials as the “TelePrompTer dummy” had to do … if you will. Keyes has American values burned in his being whereas the “dud” in the White House hates America’s Constitution.
First the BIll of Rights provides certain benefits to American citizens; one of which is “unalienable rights” and of course there are “inalienable” rights, too. Taking the use of each term in context for which they are used then one finds that being involved with a Federal and State Legal systems commands that rights be defined in a way to be applicable and not controversial in either system.
Read this and weep… dumbos. because it’s about time you birds begin to understand what America’s Supreme Law guarantees the American citizens. America’s Supreme law is to be enforced by the INFORMED electorate who are members of a Republic …dumbos, and not by some damned bureaucrats.
http://www.diigo.com/annotated/234babb70015f24b074b56ffe2070af2
What has occurred in America with the election of a fraud is no less than a ‘soft overthrow’ of the American theory of “freedom”, and you birds will rue what you did on the day that you didn’t defend your ‘unalienable rights’, given to you by the creator, not government.
Using the above link, do make an attempt to properly correlate the proper use of the legal terms; unalienable and inalienable rights, which you have abdicated with your more than ignorant and misplaced loyalty to a ‘dud’ now in America’s “sad house’.
After you figure out how the American system of “rights’ given by the creator are employed then you may be able to understand how perilous a pursuit you are engaged in by supporting a ‘miserable criminal phony’ who entered public office on fraudulent grounds with the aid of the “usefull idiots”, or as Putin says the illiterates with fantasized law degrees, and who post on this blog.
Any Commander in Chief that would allow dedicated military personnel, who are decorated for bravery, to be jailed is beyond any means of exacting the proper revenge for the acts of that evil bastard.
You birds aided and abetted a criminal to take office; the facts are there, the conviction of that miscreant using the evidence at hand is unquestionably achievable. However, the racist in the system are running over their drooling tongues to have a ‘half black’ illegitimate POTUS when they should be working to “defend American Rights” against all enemies , foreign and domestic.
He’s not someone you can engage in a dialogue with as he always acts in bad faith. He does the same thing on Amazon and after getting beat down repeatedly he’ll disappear for a time only to reemerge to talk about his idea of a fast and furious coverup or a sandy hook coverup. The man is not rational.
Ludwig was born in 1890, but there is no evidence about where he was born. He died in Hawaii in 1981. His SSN was 045-26-8722 (045 is a Connecticut prefix, but the SSN was issued in 1951, when Ludwig was 61, so it says nothing about where he was born).
The other problem for birthers is that Ludwig’s SSN does not match Obama’s SSN.
I think Hermitian’s point was to present a completely irrational claim that I had violated Hawaii law as an analogy to what I had said in this article suggesting that Taitz is potentially violating the law.
Where the analogy breaks down is that by no stretch of the imagination does what I did constitute vital records fraud. The clear statement of the Statute just doesn’t fit. On the other hand, I was dead serious about what I said in the article above.
I’ve studied a little about the laws on criminal conspiracy, particularly related to certain cases where entrapment was claimed. It doesn’t take much to bring a charge of conspiracy. The Congressional Research Service published a paper on the topic, saying in the introduction:
In the hypothetical situation raised by my article, that some reader on the Taitz web site honor’s Taitz’ request to use the E-Verify system to look up a social-security record, there are obviously two persons, Taitz and the reader. This is the first element of a conspiracy.
The Second element is “agreement.” One of the distinguishing criteria of agreement for criminal conspiracy is “agreement of purpose.” While it’s not explicit, circumstantially Taitz is asking a reader to look up the record, supply the results to her with the intent of Taitz publishing the results and/or filing it with a lawsuit for the purpose of inconveniencing the President. Conspiracies can be proven with circumstantial evidence. I think that in this hypothetical situation it’s pretty clear that there is a common purpose.
In the situation where an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy is required by the statute, looking up the record with E-Verify is a crime and a sufficient overt act. The statute violated is 42 U.S.C. 1306(a) US Code – Section 1306: Disclosure of information in possession of Social Security Administration or Department of Health and Human Services.
When I use the phrase “criminal conspiracy” I’m referring to 18 USC 371 – Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States :
I’m pleased to discuss, debate and dispute with anyone who feels that I’m off track in my interpretation of the statute. I am not a lawyer, nor a federal prosecutor. I’m not, however, going to stand for people throwing rocks at me.
Birthers don’t seem to grasp this. The IRS computers match EVERY Social Security number on EVERY return — the primary taxpayer, his/her spouse (the secondary taxpayer), and each dependent claimed — to a database that contains SSN and birth derived from the Social Security Administration. If either the primary or the secondary TIN does not match the taxpayer’s name, the computer kicks it out and the return is not processed; the taxpayers receive a notice in the mail advising them to correct the problem. If a dependent’s SSN does not match, the exemption is disallowed until the taxpayer(s) corrects the error or provides evidence to match the claimed dependent to the SSN.
Sorry to inform you, Hermit, but Ricky is correct. And the EITC may be claimed only by taxpayers physically residing in the United States, so you are also wrong about refund checks being mailed to addresses in Mexico.
“To qualify for Earned Income Tax Credit or EITC, you and your spouse if married and filing a joint return, must meet all of the following rules:
Have a valid Social Security Number
Have earned income from employment, self-employment or another source
Cannot use the married, filing separate filing status
Must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien all year or a nonresident alien married to a U.S. citizen or resident alien and choose to file a joint return and be treated as a resident alien
Cannot be the qualifying child of another person*
Cannot file Form 2555 or 2555-EZ (related to foreign earned income)
Your Adjusted Gross Income and earned income must meet the limits shown on the Income Limits, Maximum Credit Amounts and Tax Law Updates Page
Your investment income must meet or be less than the amount listed on the Income Limits, Maximum Credit Amounts and Tax Law Updates Page.
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Earned-Income-Tax-Credit-Rules-for-Everyone
Ummm … in short …. no. The man opens eggs with a chainsaw and proceed to scry upon the blended yolks LOL
He’s just another Say Anything™ nutter. I keep thinking that would get old. Just admit (to yourself at least) you’re down to nothing but BS and just shut up. These old bored nutters got nothing better to do. If only someone near and dear would discover how they’ve been wasting their time and stage an intervention … entice them to get out and about and enjoy life!
About damn time. The hapless loser needs to get a life, somewhere else.
My wife staged just such an intervention just the other day. I was just making some headway on a programming problem I was struggling with when she came into the office and insisted I come out and help her pump up her bike tires and then do a bike ride.
We did about 15 kilometers all up, and I was pleasantly surprised that after not being on my bike for almost 4 years after my hip operation and REALLY spending WAY too much time sitting in this chair in front of my computer, I came out pretty good. I could have done another 15ks without too much trouble.
That’s a terrific and succinct summary of how it works. And of course it explains why most infants now get their Social Security Numbers during their first year of life, because without one they cannot be claimed as dependents.
Back in my day (and even in Obama’s day), people didn’t apply for a Social Security Number until they needed one, which typically was when they got their first job. In fact, I didn’t get my SSN until I was 18, because until then I worked in the summer as a caddy at a country club.
That all changed when the IRS realized the taxpayers were taking exemptions for children who were no longer dependents (or, in some cases, non-existent children).
What birthers fail to comprehend is that there has never been a reason for Obama to use some other person’s SSN. Even if Obama had been born in Kenya he would have been eligible to receive a Social Security Number.
He is in his early seventies and he is wasting his remaining years wallowing in prejudice and hatred.
PETULANT: Why waste time on this blog with obots who can’t think for themselves, nor can they come to reasonable conclusions on how to address indisputable facts of fraud provided by the greatest evil, now in America’s house, and that America has ever experienced.
PETULANT AKA BLOG DUNCES as in GUANO, Why waste your time on this blog? Where is your indisputable facts of fraud? The courts disagreed with you 190 times already! Why waste your time? Please move back with Orly to Moldova.
Well, if you think that it’s a waste, then what are you going to do about it? What’s prevalent on this blog is to repel a troll like you!
What’s fraudulent about being president while being black?
I really really pushed you buttons didn’t I? Indeed, I’m a very unpleasant experience as in a bummer for you. Thanks for recognizing that!
What’s legal mumbo jumbo with the following which I read as very straight forward:
“…They ask the court to STRETCH the Constitution’s meaning to find requirements for serving as President that exist nowhere in the document, and because they ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch.”… Judge England (Page 8)
and…
“the only credible information that this Court has received and has been released was from the Director of the Hawaii Health Department who has certified and attested to the authenticity of the certified copies of the original certificate of live birth which was
published approximately a year and a half ago. That is credible testimony.”…Judge England
Tell me, what law did I ignore? I have the right to vote for an eligible and trustworthy POTUS!
Like that person who graduated MAGNA CUM LAUDE from HARVARD?
“Spending 2.5 million”? come on…that has been DEBUNKED a long time ago….Motion to explain…DENIED! NEXT!
“Teleprompter dummy”?….IRRELEVANT! NEXT!
Is that why he is black? Birthers also say that Ron Paul has American values burned in his being, why is he white? You’re not serious about Alan Keyes are you? You see, If it was Alan Keyes who run against McCain and even Romney, we would have lost the election. Alan Keyes can’t inspire, a quality a leader must possess! He was not even effective as a UN Ambassador! Who are you to dictate who we want to be President?
How is that? On the other hand, it’s you Birfers who have no respect for America’s Constitution! Let me prove it…
“…They ask the court to STRETCH the Constitution’s meaning to find requirements for serving as President that exist nowhere in the document, and because they ask the court to USURP the duties of the legislative branch.”… Judge England (Page 8)
IRRELEVANT! NEXT!
I don’t want to laugh…DENIED! NEXT!
I AGREE! That’s why Obama was voted by 66 million INFORMED US CITIZENS. He also won the majority of the INFORMED ELECTORAL COLLEGE didn’t you know?
Obama took the oath of office and twice administered by no less than Chief Justice Roberts. Hey, did you watch the inaugural ceremony? Mind you, all the justices of the Supreme Court were in attendance, Beyonce also sung! I also saw Orly and two other protesters. They looked pathetic being swallowed in throngs of people who celebrated one of America’s revered traditions! Why didn’t you join Orly?
Last time I checked I’m a mammal not an avis! Don’t even pretend to be a Christian by quoting biblical passages but not having the respect for the Lord? Your “creator” must start with a capital “C”! Next!
Don’t preach to me! IRRELEVANT! …NEXT!
66 Million ignorant people whose loyalty is misplaced? Shouldn’t those 3 protesters (Orly et. al.) be called that rather? The “sad house” is located in Rancho Santa Margarita not at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!
Simply put…you just want to pick a fight is that it? If you idolize Putin, then move to Russia. You may enjoy horseback riding or tae kwan do with him!
Are you referring to Terry Lakin, that treasonous deserter who is also a Birfer? Hey if you read the Bible check and read the book of Kings and Samuel! You’ll learn alot about obedience, loyalty and call of duty to the military!
the facts are there, the conviction of Mr Obama using his certified birth certificate as evidence at hand was unquestionably already submitted to the court! Do you still want me to prove it? Here:
“the only credible information that this Court has received and has been released was from the Director of the Hawaii Health Department who has certified and attested to the authenticity of the certified copies of the original certificate of live birth which was
published approximately a year and a half ago. That is credible testimony.”…Judge England
Didn’t I already challenge you to a fisticuffs? Stop the blah blah! I will defend my American Rights against USURPERS like you! Let’s duke it out dude! Oh no, you will not fight, you simply want to be a keyboard warrior! Why did you desert Orly when she called you to protest the Presidential Inauguration? You’re “all talk and no action”
I saw a talking turnip once. They had it a the state fair ag exhibit. It was in a kind of a cradle thing and it looked like an angry red faced baby. But it could talk just a few words but not too clearly.
Doc I assume petulant, fortunate, blog dunces etc is all the same troll changing their name with each response?
Almost. There are two groups:
FORTUNATE
NBC IS FACT
PETULANT
and
BLOG DUNCES
Not Capable
The Harry Bounel that appears in the 1940 census was born in 1890 in Russia. He was therefore 50 years old in 1940. The 1940 Census was released after Hendershot’s first post about Uncle Harry.
The SSA has no legal right to withhold Harry’s records because, like all law enforcement, they apply the 100-year rule for presumption of death. Harry Bounel would now be 122/123 years old.
This all of course is the reason that Michelle Obama has now made her Mother’s branch of the family tree private in Ancestry. That branch of her tree contains the Cohens who were living in an adjacent unit of the same building in New York with uncle Harry in 1940.
[I banned Hermitian and delete his comments before they appear; however, in this instance, I’m publishing the comment because it makes a substantive point and it’s not appearing to pick a fight. Hermitian is, however incorrect about a 100-year rule for a presumption of death. The 100-year rule is for a presumption of death of a registrant’s parents, not the registrant. For the registrant, the presumption of death is 120 years, this from the SSA site:
Of course now anyone born in 1890 meets the 120 year presumption of death criterion, but would not have a few years ago. I don’t have any details about the prior birther request: what it requested, and when it was made.
Doc.]
That’s what I love about these chickenspit yutzes.
Jedi Pauli was threatening to sue people for hate crimes who criticized him. I wrote a very critical and insulting email to him; not only have I not been sued, he didn’t even respond to the email.
There is great suspicion that the SSN has also illegally destroyed records
A sure sign that you lack evidence is that you don’t cite a source, and use the the passive voice. If there is greast suspicion, please specify on whose part, and what your evidence is, Hermy.
But isn’t improper use of E-Verify a crime in the same sense as taping a major league baseball game without the express written consent of the broadcaster and the league? As in, a minor thing nobody actually cares about or enforces?
I think that the usual violation prosecuted related to E-Verify is an employer retaliating against an employee based on the result. See:
http://www.lawlogix.com/electronic-i9/compliance-measures/employers-not-immune-from-punishment-by-osc-for-e-verify-violations/
I don’t know about prosecutions for illegal access. I know that some were prosecuted for looking at Obama’s student aid records in a federal database, and also there were actions taken against contractors who looked as passport records for McCain, Clinton and Obama.
I got an email about a post from Hermy that I cannot find. It asks how Dr. C had the BC# 2 years before the world saw it. I do not want to talk for Dr. C, but I would take a shot at the answer, Doc, correct me if I am wrong:
You got the BC number from the one that was released in 2008. However, you were using a 1963 BC as template to reconstruct a BC, Without looking at the template, I assume that the template had a BC # in a certain format and that you simply modified the format of the BC# from the COLB to conform with the template. It is not hard to tell that they are the same numbers in different formats.
Plus,you would have to be the dumbest forger on earth if you put a document that you constructed on line and then did an actual forger.
Hermy has one last thing wrong, the fact that the COLB was made public in 2008, it doesn’t mean that it was created in 2008. Ya gotta love birthers.
Oh yes it does!
Reality is created and destroyed as it passes into their consciousness. Er, is allowed to pass into their consciouness.
Infants demonstrate the same unawareness of the persistence of existence.
However, infants don’t actively filter stimuli based on their preferences, they are simple (wise!) enough to take reality as it comes.
The article about my reconstruction details where everything came from and links to the source documents used. It is all open and aboveboard. Here’s the article:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/the-long-form-reconstructed/
You are 100% correct that I got the certificate number from the FactCheck.org photos and then I selected a font that sort of matched the one on the numbering machine that Hawaii used for certificates based on the sample certificates I had. Having worked on state vital statistics systems for years, I know it was highly unlikely that the number had changed from the original to what was on the modern computer-generated form. (It’s funny because right after I wrote that article I did a data conversion for a state that actually did renumber certificates and that was because they had duplicates.) I manually moved some of the digits out of vertical alignment to simulate a numbering machine. The basic document format is based on the “Alan” certificate.
The point of the article was to demonstrate how very much we already knew about the certificate from secondary sources, I guess to make the point that there wasn’t really much unknown.
By the way, I made a slight correction to that old article just now. Apparently the phrase: “I may kick myself for this but here it is” was in the wrong place. I moved it from lower down to the top of the article. I am not kicking myself, by the way. Some sort of birther nuttery did not occur at the time, and Hermitian’s rant is of no consequence today.
That’s what she said
I hadn’t read that post on the blog, the only difference between what you did and what I said was that the format for the BC# came from the Nordyke BC.
Really hard to figure out
Technically, the “format” did come from the Nordyke certificate because that one showed me that the leading zero and the century were not displayed (as it was on the COLB).
The Nordyke number was 61 10637, whereas Obama’s COLB was 1961 010641.
The font came from the Alan certificate, and the first number “6” was actually taken from the Alan certificate which, is why it’s font doesn’t quite match the digits that follow.
The thought process is too complex for Hermy to follow.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/01/foia-response-confirms-obama-stole-social-security-number.html
He sends a letter with a SS# that is or was assigned to a living person and also mentions a presumably dead person. When the SSA refuses to provide any information about the SS# he makes the birther leap of logic that the former was assigned to the latter.
Whose SSN?!
http://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/breaking-news-obama-caught-using-stolen-social-security-number/
[This comment was left on another topic, and moved here. Doc]
This is hardly new information. It’s been kicking around for about two years. Harrison J. Bounel is probably still living as well. The name appears associated with the Obama’s property starting in 2009 (hey, they year the President was first sworn in! what a coincidence), is that the Obamas probably put their property in a trust. Mr. Bounel would be listed as the trustee. However, Mr. Bounel is only a trutee, and not owner, and all taxes related to the property, and such, are still the Obamas’ responsibility, generally, the SSN associated with the property would still be Obama’s. Again, the telling thing is the date of the association with the property.
Also don’t you think there would be more than one entry containing Mr. Bounel’s name if he had been kicking around since 1890, even if he did purportedly get his social security number in the 1970s…which in and of itself is insane. Why would a person wait until their mid 80s to get a SSN? By the mid 70s, SSN had been around nearly half a century. This “mystery” individual the birther keep looking for would have been eligible for benefits since 1952, not to mention, had to have have been paying into the system since 1935. This was before the days of identity theft, so the odds of needing replacement SSN would be close to nil. Then, of course, there is the reliance on public databases, which anyone who has looked at their credit report, know are far from error proof.
Basically, it’s their old game of reading something in things that weren’t said but, according to birther opinion, should’ve been said.
Remember their game that “there are no records responsive to your request” allegedly actually means “there are no records”?
Now they go “because they didn’t say ‘this number does not belong to this man’, they have tacitly admitted it does”.
Which is akin to me walking up to the next policeman and asking “is 555-90210 the phone number of your wife?” and he goes “none of your business”, then I claim he confirmed it is her number because he didn’t say it isn’t.
Of course this will, stripped of its context, find its place in birther lore as “SSA admits Obama uses stolen SSN”. Just like they recently did with “Onaka confirms BC is forged”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtVFcJiqHSQ
Always funny when birthers come here and assume the names of the people they hate. Very mature indeed.
While certainly a possibility, do you have any reference to a trustee named Bounel?
IIRC, Michelle Obama has a paternal great-grandmother named Cohen, who lived her entire life in South Carolina. The NYT hired a geneologist shortly after Obama was first elected. Mrs. Obama would not comment to the NYT. It is not known if Cohen was Jewish.
Readers are free to correct and critique me.
Unlike Hermitian, I do not traffic in gossip and innuendo.
Unfortunately, you’re probably right.
I have not. I have looked, but it’s not like this information readily available. All documents forming the trust would be private documents. There is no requirement that a trustee be registered in any way, or even to be an attorney. Land records for Cook Country, while public documents, are not available on-line. I would think a transfer of the property to a trustee would require recording it in the land records. So if anyone lives withing driving distance of Cook County… a trip to Cook County Recorder of Deeds, Office118 N. Clark Street, Room 120, Chicago, Illinois 60602, could provide something…or nothing at all.
As predicted:
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=381598
I know someone else who clearly does not.
Point about Orly writing in an accent. That implies that people who can read Russian, should be able to understand her. And yes, at the end of 2008 I would dare to say that was the case. But nowadays, when I read her rants, I just think “idiotic, illogical, insane.
And it makes you wonder why. They could just stick to “they are all in on it and cover it up”. Seems they want to create a feeling of “they are openly breaking the law because they know nobody will stop them”, obviously with the intention of inciting people to go “but I will!”.