I talked about why so many people get sucked into conspiracy theories about Obama’s birth certificate in my article, “Any fool can see.” I have become somewhat jaundiced in my view of a birther’s ability to evaluate evidence and to change their mind. That view might be biased by the fact that people don’t engage in publicity campaigns to advertise their mistakes. The appearance of discussion of the Xerox 7655 theory in birther web sites is encouraging and the Cold Case Posse’s silence (two months now) is causing suspicion. All that’s missing is a simple-to-understand YouTube video explaining the result, or a high-profile birther with some integrity looking at the evidence and publishing their findings to put a serious cramp in the consensus birther view. (Also see Reality Check’s article Xerox for dummies.)
I think that the real importance of the work of scientist and blogger NBC in debunking birther claims of document forgery is not for the present, but for the future. Conspiracy theories persist long beyond their relation to current events. I think that the identification of the Xerox 7655 as the source of the technical artifacts of the PDF version of the President’s birth certificate effectively removes them from the table and makes it likely that birtherism will have no long-term place in the pantheon of conspiracy theories.
I’m sorry, Doc, but over at ORYR, “john” has already debunked the debunkers:
“ATTENTION! It appears the Obot’s theory that Xerox WorkCenter is the “forger” of Obama’s Birth Certificate PDF is FLAWED. The Obots failed to use the right workflow in determining their findings which has apparently lead to unreliable results.
“This is because they used the wrong printing process workflow.
“While the CCP took steps to insure that their scanning experiments were based on an ACTUAL original hard copy birth certificate, the Obots essentially did a “scan of scan”. There really be no comparision to what CCP VS. what the Obots did.”
And you’ll notice that John cites nothing, in his great debunking. 😉
No measure of fact or truth with dissuade hardcore birthers from their loony beliefs. And every time the most current meme is debunked they’ll move the goalposts further out until they are all the way back to the beginning again, having circumnavigated the earth leading forward with their posteriors.
I was not aware the goal posts were still on Earth.
Oh, come on! He says they used the wrong workflow. Now, I don’t know what that means, but it has the ring of truth.
Delusional! John has visions of something that looks a lot like CSI with rooms full of computers and equipment with posse members doing magical things. But, unlike CSI, the posse show never ends.
Doc C said: “I think that the identification of the Xerox 7655 as the source of the technical artifacts of the PDF version of the President’s birth certificate effectively removes them from the table and makes it likely that birtherism will have no long-term place in the pantheon of conspiracy theories.”
Like how the detectable presence of a retro-reflector on the moon or pictures of the lunar landing sites has done in the moonies? Or how the scientific explanation of how WTC1, 2, and 7 fell has deterred the truthers? Or how the Wong Kim Ark holding has neutered the Vattelists. Sorry Doc, I just don’t see it. NBC (and others) have done yeoman’s work here, but the birthers have too much experience in ignoring reality in favor of their delusions for me to think that birthers will let a little more truth get in the way of their sedition.
aye, there’s the rub.
And he’s all over the map. Check his second post.
(Doc: Do you prefer that we not post links or excerpts from ORYR?)
Do you think Bernie Madoff has at least one erstwhile investor somewhere who still says, “There’s hope! We believe in you, Bernie! That check’s coming any day now!” ?
John, your thoughts?
Yesterday’s xkcd is related to what folks are saying here (theme spoiler: “buoɹʍ sı snqɯnןoɔ ʇnoqɐ ʍouʞ noʎ buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ”): once people learn a narrative, it’s really, really hard to pry them loose from it — especially if it confirms a corresponding belief of theirs.
||: Big Pharma! They’re out to get you, organized medicine is bad — Dr. Wakefield is right! Jenny McCarthy confirms it! I don’t care what so-called scientists said, I know someone whose kid had a vaccination, and then something happened to them! Anyone who says otherwise is in the pockets of… :||
===
||: Big Government! They’re out to get you — there’s no way a bunch of guys with knives can take over airplanes! It was heat rays, or cruise missiles, or controlled demo! I don’t care what so-called structural engineers said, someone told me that steel can’t melt with jet fuel, and anyone who says otherwise is a dupe of… :||
===
||: Democrats! Liberals! Guys with funny names! They’re out to get you — there’s no way a guy named “Barack HUSSEIN Mohammed Obama” could graduate with high honors from Harvard Law School, serve in the Illinois Lege for several terms, be elected to the Senate, rise to the national stage with a killer appearance at the DNC, then go on to become president of the US! Because birth certificate! PDF! Workflow! I don’t care what so-called canonical sources and overwhelming evidence says, someone told me “kerning,” and anyone who says otherwise is just a dupe of… :||
“high-profile birther with some integrity”
Isn’t that a contradiction?
Regarding the premise of the article … yes for sane, rational people, the identification of severl markers that can be used to determine whether a PDF was created on a Xerox product capable of MRC is a nice piece to have.
For the nutters, Magic Copier will reside right next to Magic Bullet as something only sheeple believe in.
I say “Xerox product” rather than “WorkCentre 7655” because, unless I missed something, all the features NBC nailed down are common to all Xerox MRC PDFs created on multifunction devices, that Workcentre 7655 is merely inferred because that model was used to scan the Obamas’ tax returns.
So far as I know, all of the PDFs examined all share the same indicators, regardless of model scanned on. Unless I’m behind, claiming a specific model is making an assumption.
There is a kernel of truth in there but unsurprisingly the conclusions that John draws are incorrect. He is right that printing out Obama’s BC from the web is not the perfect way to replicate the creation of the PDF Obama put on the web. But he does not present any evidence that the CCP got different results when scanning an actual, original hard copy birth certificate on a Xerox. Nor does he realize that scanning an original brith certificate for someone else is also not a perfect way to replicate what was done. If it is for a different person, it will have different information which could lead to differences in the way it is processed during the scanning and conversion to PDF (much the same way John claims that the lack of security paper could change the results).
Since neither nbc nor the CCP have access to Obama’s original birth certificate, neither can truly replicate the process. So they both came as close as they could given their available resources. nbc has posted the results of his tests and they are nearly identical to the PDF Obama posted. The CCP will not post their results. Hmmm, who should I believe?
But I wanted to hear more about what happened to Columbus in Valinor with the Silmaril on his brow…
(I’m a big fan of xkcd)
A very good point. I try and hold myself to two principles regarding objectivity: falsifiability and everyone is the hero of their own story.
If someone can’t give a reasonable example of how they could be proven wrong or their theory requires people to have unquestionably evil motives or commit evil actions without motive to do so, then their theory should be rejected out of hand as unscientific and unlikely.
We all lack objectivity at some times and on some issues, but the birthers start by presuming that no one is objective about anything and projecting their dishonesty onto anyone who disagrees with them—establishing a context of “cargo cult objectivity” where they can dress up in the trappings of objectivity and demonstrate their complete lack of understanding regarding the spirit of objectivity.
Hmm… Theoretically it would be possible for a birther to be so very stupid that they couldn’t understand the issue to the point where they were being either willfully ignorant or dishonest. Mind you, we’re talking about someone who would make David Farrar look like a super-genius and they would probably require someone to tell them to take a breath at regular intervals… Butterdezillion, maybe?
At least one of the PDFs (non birth certificate related) was created on a Xerox ColorCube.
i can’t listen to the audio right now but here’s a link to zullo claiming that the “copier” explanation is “delusional”
http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/08/i-think-theyre-delusional-mike-zullo-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Ppsimmons+%28PPSIMMONS%29
Feel free to post links to ORYR. Citations should be limited to fair use of their copyrighted material.
And the Zbots will believe that just because he says so.
It is my recollection that the CCP tested with a mockup-of Obama’s certificate in their first round of tests. We really don’t know what they used because they never disclosed their methodology. That is, unless you just want to trust the Posse, there is no reason to believe them.
While we don’t know what Xerox model scanned the certificate, I use the 7655 because it replicates the result, and can be used to verify NBC’s report. The hypothesis is that a Xerox machine with a specific workflow recreates the White House PDF to a high-degree of compliance. Generalization is an unnecessary complication. When trying to debunk, simple statements are more effective.
NBC’s discovery of the Xerox 7655 as the source of the anomalies which the CCP eagerly mislabeled as proof of document tampering and forgery only end the controversy in the minds of the sane persons who were temporarily puzzled.
Birthers repeatedly and eagerly made the compound error of declaring that the detectable image distortions characteristically created by the Xerox 7655 were explainable only as nefarious attempts to deceive somebody about something.
Zullo needed some pretext upon which to be able to generically label the PDF file released by the White House as a “forgery”, so he could try to sell the fantastic notion that the very creation of the file was technically a crime, and its use as an informational likeness, authentically conveying the vita facts on the original, as attested by the appropriate Hawaii government officials, was “worse” than an attempt to defraud a government official, or a court, or an employer, or a University, etc.!
Such actual attempts prohibited by actual statutes would be criminal lawbreaking. But Zullo wants us to believe that the very creation of this PDF file was predicated on using it to defraud the American Public into being fooled into thinking that Obama was eligible to the Presidency, and indeed, establishing that Birther-embarrassing fact is an unfairly easy thing to accomplish when no Birther has a shred of court-worthy evidence to challenge it.
Zullo knows there’s no crime here, unless he has committed it by running afoul of the laws governing non-profit organizations, but he thinks that there is a chance that some anti-Obama congress person might be talked into having the Congressional equivalent of a Kangaroo court to try Obama for something that in Birther minds, certainly “should be ” a crime, and that would actually be making Zullo, Gallups, and the rest of the Birthers look like fools.
From the very beginning of Birtherism, they have counted on hatching that magical moment when one of their lies “goes viral” and somehow creates the momentum to get Obama frog-marched out of THEIR White House.
And Carl Gallups can’t interview Zullo these days without reiterating what their fall-back strategy is if everybody (AND I MEAN EVERY V.I.P.) lets them down, in other words, rejects their idiocy.
It will be their final ongoing courageous act to get every fact from their investigation out in front of the public. Just listen to what a range of possibilities that includes:
Zullo’s book, restroom graffiti, Zullo’s book, Zullo’s book, Zullo’s book, and (here I’m guessing) Zullo’s book by another title, also copyrighted by him.
RC Radio had placed a secret camera at the tax exempt HQ of the Cold Case Posse and was therefore able to capture the actual moment that Mike Zullo got the news about the Xerox testing.
http://youtu.be/fQ0jzGYkrFg
Oh, Lord! Zullo’s been “Downfalled”! Excellent job, RC.
Benji F.
“Zullo knows there’s no crime here, unless he has committed it by running afoul of the laws governing non-profit organizations, …..”
That’s why no criminal complaint will ever be filed in Maricopa County. The evidence just is not there. He knows it and the PA knows it. Birthers must have an I.Q. of their shoe size to believe his nonsense. Arpaio better get his bus out of the bus barn again. Get ready for the book tour.
John, D nial is not D bunking. Obot researchers have hit D nail on D head, and D molished your D ranged D lusions about D document being D ceptive.
You may now D clare D feat and D sist.
While that is true in the strictest sense, we do know that both the President’s and Vice President’s 2010 tax returns were created on a 7655 on April15, 2011. That’s less then two weeks before the LFBC PDF was created.
That must be a pretty large bucket of mud those gold coins are in.
The 7655 is huge.
http://www.idealbizsolutions.com/images/listings/WC7655w:profin.jpg
That seems to me like a pretty typical size for a large office copier, which is basically what this is. The fact that these things can now be scanners — and best yet, printers — is a nice bit of evolution that makes my life easier on an almost daily basis.
My current printer at work is a Xerox WorkCentre 35 (black and white, no MRC, but yet I muddle through). I love the fact that I can fire off 40-page print jobs and have them almost done printing by the time I can stroll over to it.
It’s about the same size as what’s in that picture: main unit plus collator. Doesn’t have the screen pseudopod sprouting off on the left side, although I see the new Ricohs they’re putting in elsewhere in my company have something that looks a lot like that.
Now THAT was D lightful!
The answer is all too obvious: Xerox Corp is part of theConspiracy along with the State of Hawaii, the Social Security administration, the State Department, Harvard, the State of Illimois, Canada, Teh French and the Lizard People.
John has been in full desperation mode since NBC published the first articles on the Xerox back in June. John practices cargo cult science. He has read enough to know a few things but cannot string together anything in logical progression. He seems to think an “original” birth certificate is somehow magically better than a copy.
John would have a valid point if we were talking about halos. Since the WH LFBC has halos any scan is going to show those and maybe make them worse. NBC made that clear from the beginning. Other documents have been found that demonstrate that dark text on a lighter colored background produces halos. I have another scan of a pencil sketch on a piece of yellow tablet paper that shows the halos quite nicely.
We are not done either. Doc made white background version of the AP JPEG photo that can be printed on a green security basket weave. That will make a nice test specimen.
I don’t expect the CCP to go quietly. They have been made to look like fools and are not happy. As long as there are enough like John out there they can continue selling their snake oil.
The proof is not in the similarity of visual appearance, separation of layers, what is/isn’t “halo’d”, etc. Even if the same entity were to scan the same piece of paper on the same machine, email it to the same Mac which was checked to ensure it was running the same OS and version of Preview, at the same time of day and same temperature and same humidity level (heh), you’re not going to get an identical scan. That level of exactitude is inhuman. Creating a pixel-perfect identical scan, repeatedly, is not going to happen. This non-repeatability is something for birfers to hide behind.
The proof is in the pudding of NBC’s technical arguments, quantization matrices, the “YCbCr” tag, the scaling factors. The visual appearance and general nature of the file suggests it is a Xerox-created PDF, a suggestion that was noted, highlighted, and commented on ad nauseum. It’s the technical points of file structure and encoding that prove it.
Attempts at recreation of the file will always be approximate. The technical dissection will always be exact, once the source of such files was identified. NBC has tested multiple PDFs, created on multiple Xerox devices, and documented that they are, from the perspective of encoding and structure, identical the the LFBC PDF. Further, RC tested using a 7535, with reassuring visual result.
John’s work is truly hilarious, straining my ability to feel sorry for him. He’s dismissing various Xerox tests and analyses based on the nature of what was scanned … poor chap, he’s stuck on the visual appearance of the files.
Hardware and software execute the same processes regardless of what they are asked to scan, and the proof of the hardware software used is in the technical pudding. Until John identifies another device that generates files with the same characteristics … which is far beyond his abilities, and that of his CCCP “heroes”, he’ll have nary an inkling of a refutation.
You make an excellent point. Now that NBC has found the comment tag, so far as known unique to the Xerox PDF files, and the other features in the PDF the actual document used is almost irrelevant. We now know the what the Xerox does, why it does it, and how it does it. Those are things the CCP hasn’t even come close to addressing. As a matter of fact they have never posted a single logically consistent theory.
Someone asked what Xerox models might use the same compression scheme. I think a clue can be found from looking at Xerox’s list of models affected by the JBIG2 number changing flaw in their statement on it:
http://realbusinessatxerox.blogs.xerox.com/2013/08/07/update-on-scanning-issue-software-patches-to-come/?CMP=SMO-EXT#.UhoKOT8lJvu
I’ve watched Godfrey Ho movies with more coherent stories, than the one John is trying to cook up!
can you link me to the technical explanation (full) of the Xerox theory
[It’s in a series of article’s at NBC’s blog: http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/ Doc.]
For completeness, I suppose it should be mentioned that the Executive Office of the President had around 20 contracts, in fiscal year 2010, with Xerox to provide various services such as leased equipment and maintenance. The GSA does not state what equipment but, with a large, regular lease contract, it is likely a large mix of different types, depending on the business requirements for each department (the EOP is actually quite large).
I heard CERN has in interest in the birthers’ movement of the goal posts for a more powerful accelerator then the Large Hadron Collider.
Every time I listen to a Gallups/Zullo audio pep talk about what he refers to as, “The Obama Fraud Case” I start laughing, because you know that every time their ‘evidence” has been looked at by an attorney associated with one of these, VIP’s, they’ve been immediately told in no uncertain terms, “You got nuthin! You have got NOTHING!” And another imaginary door closes to them.
But Carl will continue to play the V.I.P. card, because empty promises are all he has left with this Birther disaster.
Oh, Birthers have their differences. They come in several off-putting flavors for one thing. But they all have one thing in common. Their predicted triumphs over Obama and indeed, his ultimate downfall never quite escape the bounds of prospectivity.
But cheer up Carl and Mike; as long as you can hold your breath, your failures are surely far from over.
I see that Mark Gillar, apparently speaking on behalf of the CCP, has now admitted that NBC has correctly identified the source of the PDF. Which is, you have to think, a distinct shift in position from, “There’s no possible device or software on the planet that acts this way! We’ve checked them all! Twice!”
Here on Earth, this would also seem to be an admission that they — since NBC has, as part of his frighteningly thorough documentation of the process, addressed every claim the CCP has ever made about the PDF’s construction — not to put too fine a point on it, got nuthin’.
But nooooo….
NBC, you have fallen right into their trap!
They are, if you believe in a flat Earth. From the spherical perspective, they’re already quite of bit off.
Soooooooo,
The entire thesis of the Cold Custard Pussies and their fellow travelers such as their “documentation expert” was the PDF is a crude and child like forgery as evidenced by the manifest, multiple and manifold errors/artifacts that simply could not be the product of workflow.
The “errors/artifacts” were “evidence” of “forgery”, “proving” the PDF was a crude forgery created in Adobe Photoshop.
Now that the entire towering edifice has now been proven to be a castle of sand and bird shit, its now miraculously NOT about the PDF, ’cause the CCCP “knew” this all along, it’s OTHER as yet unidentified pieces of stuff which are in fact “indisputable signs of forgery”
So what pray tell is left..?
The Birfoon Klown Kar has had its wheels blown off around the delivery mechanism, the PDF………
The Hawai’i HDoH has on a substantial number of occasions stated in the manner and form required by law, that the CONTENT is an accurate representation of the root records.
The only thing left is to attempt to “disprove” the facts of the original record.
And yet this was EXACTLY where Birferstan ran out of steam after both the first and the second BC’s were released.
Unless they can prove the BitterDelusional blind faith assertion that there is rampant BC fraud in Hawai’i what is left..?
The self reported “African” for race..?
The Presidents mother and/or father aren’t who are recorded as his parents….?
Another futile attempt by “I Lucas Smith” to pimp his childishly forged Kenyan BC…?
I’m not seeing any path to “indisputable signs of forgery “, then again, this has always been about three things
Delegitimize the Democrat Party and its policies
Delegitimize the President and all of his acts and actions based on fundamentally racist grounds
Send me money NOW….ANY DAY NOW, grifting…………
I picture the CCP Forensics Lab, moodily lit, featuring a wall with several paper towel dispensers mounted on it, each filled with 1961 LFBCs for their convenience. Because you use those suckers up at an astonishing rate in this kind of work.
I’m afraid that was not the case. Their actual ENTIRE thesis remains, “the PDF is a crude and child like forgery as evidenced by _____(BLANK)_____”
They probably chose “the manifest, multiple and manifold errors/artifacts that simply could not be the product of workflow” from a list of interchangeable goalposts that ranged from “nothing” to (what was to them) any unexplained, irritating, imaginary, or misunderstood physical phenomenon or personal pet peeve
It will be no less proving evidence in their minds, if Zullo switches now to any of the following:
“the PDF is a crude and child like forgery as evidenced by…” :
1) this sore spot on my upper right gum
2) a meticulous two minute study of The Old Testament
3) the failure of the Chicago Cubs to win a World Series for over 100 years
4) my inability to comprehend or pass College Algebra
5) this odd taste in my mouth, perhaps related to the gum sore
6) what I like to call a “digital ink spill” as explained in the title of my upcoming book
7) Obama’s socialism and friendship with, I truly believe, Lenin, or someone like that
8) magnetism, and I’m pretty sure that’s not just me
9) sorry, I’m holding this one open for the Cab driver’s response.
10) Michelle, just look at her. Or Hillary. ‘Nuf said!
11) I’m not mentioning it here, but you do know he’s Black, right?
And then we’ll hear Karl Gall OOps! gushing over the new explanation as he interviews Zullo on his big time PeePee Summons Rodeo Network:
“And, Mike Zullo, let’s remind our listeners who have not donated towards this cause yet, or not even ordered the Sheriff Joe Marionette, that, and I know this as a former police officer, goal post moving research like this costs real money, am I right Mike?”
.
Pretty sure Carl spells it with a ‘C’ … or was that a Marx reference?
( 😉 )
And did I say………….
“prove the BitterDelusional blind faith assertion that there is rampant BC fraud in Hawai’i what is left..?”
A rambling, deluded, irrational, stream of (un)conscious drivel where everyone is in on it, the HDoH is running and supporting rampant BC fraud and anyone and everyone who tries to unveil the Ebil Usurperator ends up dead….Except all the doughty “Constitutionalists” like BZ who seem to miraculously avoid the drone strikes etc……
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3057618/posts?page=165#165
26 August, 2013 3:02:51 PM 165 of 166
butterdezillion to WildHighlander57
BC numbering problem: http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/clue-2-obama-apparently-given-stig-waidelichs-bc/ More on it at http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/the-hdoh-has-juggled-bcs-for-at-least-4-1961-bcs/
HDOH Dishonesty. WOW. There is too much to list. I’ve got a whole section on it at my blog but the BC numbering problem is a biggie. The falsification of the 1960-64 birth index is another (see http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/1960-64-birth-index-includes-legally-invalid-records/ )
Actually, the whole Putting-It-Together Series, parts 1-5, shows the progression and involvement of the HDOH. Parts 6 and 7 would finish it off but I can’t post those yet. There’s also other stuff that’s illegal as heck, like refusing to let Duncan Sunahara see his sister’s long-form BC, which is tied up in the whole thing of changing the Administrative Rules (which stipulate that standard copies must be reproduced by photographic, dry copy, or typing means – NOT by computer abstract) without going through the process necessary; the director does NOT have discretion to alter the rules that have been lawfully put into effect. There’s the lies about not having a form for doing verifications, along with Okubo’s lie that they don’t issue letters of verification any more even though it’s required by law. There’s the creation of the 2001 “memo” on the same day as Obama released the forgery. There’s the insistence that they can’t reveal anything from his BC but then publicly saying that his BC claims a Hawaii birth. There’s the Vexatious Requestor bill that Fukino requested in order to stop folks like me from being able to find out information that we are legally entitled to receive. There is just way, way too much stuff that could be said. There’s also stuff I can’t tell anybody because my source swore me to silence – stuff that shows a deliberate plan of disinformation and law-breaking on the part of the HDOH. The HDOH is a criminal enterprise. There are a couple of good guys there but as with all government agencies right now and what we’ve seen with both Snowden and Hastings, choosing to blatantly expose the regime can get you dead…
Omigosh, she found out about Clone Snowden. She’s good. Execute Plan Margarine immediately.
How can they do that on a flat earth?
It’s easy for those of us who are sane to forget momentarily that a blog about multiple conspiracy theories will involve addressing the appallingly nonsensical statements of crazy people who may accuse a political enemy of everything in and out of the book – accuse them of doing things impossibly improbable or better still, the impossible – accuse them of doing vile things that are misspelled – and on and on – such a blog as Doc’s becomes substantially a laudible attempt to assemble a cogent narrative describing and exposing a scatter-gun like anti-Obama campaign comprising seemingly endless variants of uncogent accusatory narratives slamming Obama.
If you are old enough to know anyone who has worked in the mental health field, you probably have heard them say that it’s hard to know exactly where irrationality will stop once it seizes control of an individual’s focus. Perhaps some of these folks are just crazy over Obama and substantially rational about everything else. But I wouldn’t bet on it. Watch one of Rudy’s videos and try to get the hair on your neck to straighten out.
Methinks someone missed the point.
No, I’m agreeing with you and adding, they’re probably even crazier than we’ve seen so far.
OK.
“Above Top Secret” probably has enough material for a couple hundred PhD theses .
I agree too and suspect the same.
Easily… it truly is astounding how certain people are able to essentially function with such irrational beliefs and conspiracy claptrap rattling about in their heads.
Thursday evening: It looks like they’re busy jumping the shark at ORYR.
The current rant, if I understand it, is that because some have figured out how the President’s birth certificate was turned into a PDF they must now be suspects in its forgery.
FALCON is literally frothing at his keyboard and john is repeating his claim that he scanned “Obama’s birth certificate” and it doesn’t look “remotely like Obama’s birth certificate”.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/08/team-arpaio-obamabots-now-suspects.html#idc-cover
I have to go lay down now. My brain hurts.
Thanks for sharing, Carl, it confirmed my thoughts on the difficulty of convincing birfers on the errs of PDF Madness. It takes a certain level of technical competence to even recognize the truth. Witness this demonstration:
Thud.
Several of them are pushing it even further…..fantasizing about “treason” charges against Obots. Amazing.