Former Cold Case Posse member responds to reader questions
A number of you have commented with questions about the article, “Banned ‘Birther’ Breaks the BR Censorship Barrier” by Brian Reilly. Brian has sent me answers to various comments, and I am including them following. His comments are in italics:
CarlOrcas:
“Thank you Mr. Reilly for pulling the curtain back and exposing the foolishness.”
You’re very welcome.
Dave B:
“Mr. Reilly, if you are available to answer questions, what inferences would you make from the contrast between how Zullo conducts himself and how Dr. C. conducts himself? And in the contrast between the access he has given you here, and the cold shoulder you’ve got from birther sites?”
Regarding the first question: I am very impressed with Mr. Davidson. He appears to seek the truth. He appears to be fair. He has excellent research skills. He would have been an asset for the Cold Case Posse.
Regarding the second question: The access given to me by his site is like a breath of fresh air. Unless the birther script is followed, one is not welcome on the their sites, for the most part.
Slartibartfast:
“It speaks well of you that you were ultimately able to accept facts that contradicted your beliefs about President Obama being ineligible.”
Thank you. My main concern was the authenticity of the long form birth certificate. “Eligibility” was added by others when the project was hijacked by hardcore birthers.
jtmunkus:
“Question: Do you know of a single cold case that the Cold Case Posse has actually investigated, and/or helped to solve?”
No.
“As a devout Tea Partyer – surely you wouldn’t support taking these funds from the citizens to advance your own politics, right?”
I am not a member of any Tea Party. I resigned from the board of the Surprise Tea Party Patriots and the Tea Party in June of 2012. The so-called investigation was operating on donations from the the public. I was told by Sheriff Arpaio that tax payer funds would not be used. I believed him. The Crown Vics were owned by the Cold Case Posse, a non-profit Arizona corporation, and yes they had government plates.
Notorial Dissent:
“The only question I would have at this time would be, did Zullo and the MCCCP ever really do any serious investigation, or was it merely a matter of copying what someone else had done, or simply taking what they said as gospel?”
In my opinion it was not an investigation. Thank you for your kind remarks.
Arrogantlyignorant:
“Excellent piece!”
Thank you.
CarlOrcas:
“Okay….here are some questions for Mr. Reilly:
1 – How many members are there on the Cold Case Posse?
2 – How many were actively involved in the Obama investigation?
3 – Did the posse investigate any other cold cases that you are aware of?
4 – Who maintained the case files on the Obama investigation?
5 – Was a MCSO DR (case) number assigned to the investigation?
6 – How were your out-of-pocket travel expenses paid or reimbursed?
Thanks.”
1. I don’t know.
2. Five were involved in what is called an investigation.
3. I’m unaware of any other investigations done by the Cold Case Posse.
4. The files were maintained by Commander Mike Zullo. It is his work product.
5. I am unaware of any MCSO DR (case) number. The non-profit CCP Inc. was doing the investigation, not the MCSO.
6. My expenses were paid by Commander Zullo by credit/debit card.
Keith:
“Congratulations Mr. Reilly.”
Thank you.
Miki Booth:
“Who gets custody of the forgery?”
Is there a forgery? How would you know?
Treblig:
“Bryan – Just wanted to say ‘Thanks’ and that I know this must have been tough for you. ”
Thank you. Yes, it has been difficult.
HistorianDude:
“Not to answer for Mr. Reilly, but when trying to research any activity by the CCP prior to the birth certificate investigation I was unable to find any evidence that they had ever investigated any cold case.”
I was told by Commander Zullo, that until they had been assigned the BC investigation, they hadn’t done much of anything. They also lacked funds. You may find this very difficult to believe (as did I), but Commander Zullo informed me that the CCP was used as bar bouncers for taverns and paid less than $10 per hour per person. The car that I was assigned was used on those details and exhibited extensive paint damage. Commander Zullo told me that the damage was from throwing people against the car during tavern details.
CarlOrcas:
“Next question would be who is paying the insurance?”
I added the CCP Crown Vic to my personal auto insurance to make sure I had coverage.
bgansel9:
“Does the money to cover these items come from donations or is it coming out of MCSO coffers?”
In theory, the money is supposed to come from donations, not tax dollars.”
jtmunkus:
“Was there ever mention of which, if any, [actual] Maricopa County ordinance was allegedly violated to prompt an investigation? If yes, please cite the ordinance.”
The petition that I wrote to Sheriff Arpaio requested that he investigate the PDF copy of the Obama birth certificate to determine whether there was a criminal violation of Arizona Revised Statute 13-2407 A-C, which declares that tampering with a public record is a class 6 felony. My petition had nothing to do with the eligibility of President Obama. My idea was then hijacked by hardcore Tea Party types and “eligibility” was later brought into the equation by Dr. Corsi’s letter, written for the Surprise Tea Party Patriots requesting an investigation. Yes, I signed the letter, but I believed that the eligibility issue was dead on arrival.
CarlOrcas:
“I think it’s time for the Cold Case Posse to make its finances public.”
I very much agree. The following is taken from The Sheriff’s Posse of Sun City West, AZ (Maricopa County) solicitation for donations:
” Your donations fund our cars, fuel and insurance; you fund the cost associated with maintaining our Posse offices. Every time we make a copy, turn on the lights, or fire up the coffee maker–we know we owe it all to You. We do our part by being a 100% volunteer organization with no Federal, State or local government support, but You make our existence possible. We are grateful for every tax deductible dollar You contribute…..This is YOUR Posse….[I]t is our honor to serve you. Captain Don Sampson, Commander”
Does this sound like an example being followed by the Cold Case Posse?
CarlOrcas:
“These vehicles will be used by posse volunteers for prisoner transports and off duty jail wagon details.
It doesn’t make sense: Why would the Cold Case Posse be doing prisoner transports and what the hell is an “off duty jail wagon detail”?”
It makes perfect sense if the Cold Case Posse was transporting people from taverns to the MCSO jail, doesn’t it? That was their function, I was told by Commander Zullo, prior to investigating the birth certificate of the President of the United States.
Loren:
Re: Reilly debunking the alleged Breitbart call to Sheriff Arpaio.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
bovril:
“The actions were motivated by more than mere curiosity or desire to clarify, they were motivated by fear and distaste for “the other” a refusal to accept the legal and constitutionally binding election results and more than a little bigotry.”
My motivation was to determine if under Arizona Revised Statutes, the PDF represented a forgery or tampering with a public record, a class 6 felony in Arizona. Congress had no interest then. Congress still has no interest. The Hawaii Verification of Birth answered my question. Many others who are still arguing “eligibility” will have to speak about their own motivations. Thanks for your “Qualified kudos.”
Dr. Conspiracy :
“While Brian Reilly might be an interesting fellow to get to know, he hasn’t sided with me or joined me in an any way.”
I do appreciate you allowing me to speak freely on your website and I also appreciate your desire to seek the truth.
Dr. Conspiracy :
“This is like Patrick Henry switching to the British side,…”
I look at it more like Paul Revere riding through the countryside yelling, “The Red-Coats are coming! The Red-Coats are coming!” and nobody heard his words (at BR). Paul Revere then came riding back with a 1,000 watt amplified speaker system (Dr. Conspiracy website) and finally got the message out to the people.
Reality Check:
So that is quite a turnabout Mr. Reilly. When did this occur?
To this day, Sheriff Arpaio and Mike Zullo claim they have “probable cause” that a crime or crimes have been committed. I resigned from the CCP on June 30, 2012. The May , 2012, Verification of Birth gave me answers to my questions. The botched, July 17, 2012 CCP press conference validated my decision to resign. The only thing that could have changed my “turnabout” would be if it were shown that the Verification of Birth was fraudulent. Has the CCP proven that the Verification of Birth document is fraudulent? This is highly doubtful in my opinion. I have been out of the CCP information loop for about 20 months. I have also never seen or read the Reed Hayes’ report, but I’m told it was released to one prominent, outspoken individual in the birther community. Many of the things I’ve done or suggested since I resigned were to try to get the CCP to “put up, or shut up.” I don’t believe they have anything to “put, up.” I believe the Hawaii Verification of Birth is still valid, and it ends the questions about the Obama birth certificate.
Mugwhump:
“Sort of tells you why you can never have a rational discussion with birfers – they are consumed with hate and rage (and stupidity – don’t forget the stupidity).”
This is a pretty accurate assessment of why I asked Mr. Davidson if I could post my thoughts on his site. I consider his website to be civilized.
HistorianDude:
“Arpaio said explicitly that he didn’t even bother to read it.
It would be foolish to actually believe that Arpaio had a clue regarding what Zullo was up to.”
Arpaio stated on a Freedom Friday radio broadcast with Carl Gallups that he hadn’t read the Hayes’ report. Arpaio only knows what Commander Zullo tells him. The CCP Inc. was doing the “investigation,” not the Sheriff and his MCSO when I was with the CCP.
RanTalbott:
“Zullo has said that he considers all the “work product” of the CCP to be his personal property.”
I’ll confirm that.
CarlOrcas:
“Bingo! I think this may be a part of what Reilly was concerned about vis a vis personal liability. Did he say if he was ever an officer or director of the posse?”
You said it very well. No, I was not an officer or director. I was also told about financial records issues. It was time to get out.
As I have time, I will try to answer more questions about the article that I submitted. I’m sure that my answers posted above will give you additional information to discuss. I want to thank Lupin, Roadburner, RanTalbott, Publius, CarlOrcas and all the others on the Dr. Conspiracy website for their kind words, a forum, and your hospitality. Again, many thanks to Mr. Davidson for this platform.
Regards,
Brian Reilly
Mr. Reilly, I listened to you on the RC Radio show the other night. I can’t tell you how inspiring it is to hear someone tell it like it is about the birthers from an inside perspective. Awhile back I noticed on YouTube that there was a lot of stuff that was actually old stuff just being recycled again. I can’t help but wonder if these were new birthers finding old things and reposting or if it was a concerted effort at misinforming the public by constant bombarding of people with made up nonsense. Thank you for doing what you are doing and thank you Doc C for helping it to happen.
Mr Reilly, I just finished listening to the last of the RC Radio show wherein you state that you believe that the birth cert. from Hawaii is legit despite all of the evidence to the contrary. What do you base this on?
[It’s in his article. He bases this on the State of Hawaii verification letter send to Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett. Doc.]
Brian wrote:
I got this impression when I read his recent letter to Orly Taitz (just a few days before he contacted me). Here’s what was said:
Why is Mr. Reilly lying about Obamacare?
If this was a “search for truth” why are lies acceptable against political opponents?
The “Cold Case Posse” was employed, according to Zullo, as a drunk taxi service prior to the hookup w/Corsi? A very depressing definition of ‘Cold Case’! The Cold Case of Beer Posse.
I, too, gave a listen to the RC Radio session, and must say Reilly was very generous with his time. I wonder what he thinks of “Obots”, those endlessly fascinated by the ongoing tragicomedy of birtherism? Not individuals, but that there are Obots at all. Weird? Equally disturbed? Ghoulish? Idealistic? Valiant? Patriotic?
Thanks for the correspondence Mr Reilly. This just blows all my theories about Zullo out of the water. I’m going to have to re-evaluate everything I thought about Zullo and come to a totally different conclusion about him…
Zullo – failed law enforcement, failed used car salesman, failed Obama investigator, bouncer. At least he gets to work with his peers…obnoxious drunks.
Wonder how much of his bouncer income was cash under the table? Zullo seems very good at hiding income.
Brian,
Did You know the Arizona Verification has got serious problems with it?
1. Big Red Flag – The DOB was never verified. Ken Bennett Apparently “forgot” to ask for it. There is no rational reason in world why Ken Bennett “Forgot” to ask for the DOB to be verified but felt it necessary for the age of the father be verified.
2. Ken Bennett asked if the PDF birth certificate was a Legal and Accurate Representation. Hawaii failed to verify it legal and accurate only in so far the information matched.
Obots claim that Hawaii verified the DOB by stating it verified the information contained in the PDF. This is merely an assumption and it is an established fact that Hawaii has never verified the DOB on the record.
My theory is that Kenn Bennett was told by sources that Hawaii could not verify the DOB which is why Kenn Bennett left it off. But Bennett was under great pressure to get the birthers off his back and nevertheless submitted the verification letter without asking for the DOB to be verified.
“I have also never seen or read the Reed Hayes’ report, but I’m told it was released to one prominent, outspoken individual in the birther community.”
I wonder if this might be Mark Gillar?
I’ll say it again…….WOW!!!
Thank you again, Mr. Reilly. Now I have a lot more questions. If you’re willing to continue answering them I will ask Doc, I presume you want them posted in this thread?
Thanks to both of you!
Hey! Believe it or not, I was at the Church on the Green and briefly met Mr. Reilly during Zullo’s presentation to the Surprise Tea Party.
I don’t know if the LFBC is a forgery or not. I do know that waving a paper around in front of reporters and posting a facsimile on the web is not admissible evidence and so if it’s pretty meaningless from an evidentiary standpoint, no matter how many bureaucrats vouch for it.
The posse also presented evidence regarding the Selective Service Card, and no evidence has been presented to settle that problem, so Reilly does what all anti-birthers do: he ignores it.
If I could ask Mr. Reilly a question, I’d ask him (and any anti-birther) why Pfeiiffer and Bauer would not let the president hold his own birth certificate. (check the transcript of the document-waving presentation).
Anyway, Reilly’s come-to-Jesus moment is a very entertaining episode in this epic drama and will provide excellent research material to behavior theorists no matter how this tawdry saga is ultimately resolved. Or not.
Thanks Doc.
There’s no evidence that it is a forgery.
No one ever said the PDF was admissible evidence. “Bureaucrats,” however, have vouched for the State of Hawaii’s original records.
What problem? The Selective Service has said President Obama is duly registered.
Assuming that’s what they said, how does that affect the validity of the State of Hawaii’s records? Regardless, only Pfeiiffer and Bauer could answer that for you; ask them.
Except for a tiny minority, the issue has always been resolved: President Obama was born in Hawaii, and is the president.
Oooh ho ho ho! This’ll anger up Falcon and Co. for sure! Good on you Brian. Good on you!
As for myself, I’ll be pretty scarce for a while. I just got Skyrim: Legendary Edition. Revisiting Solthsteim is a much more attractive waste of my time than chuckling at the birthers’ misfortune.
Lol they presented no evidence to support their claims about the Selective Service Card. Really we’ve ignored it? This site has talked about it a lot. Including this FOIA request from the Selective Service System verifying the document.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/168009824/Obama-Selective-Service-Registration-FOIA-9-10-2013
Tell me what’s your theory for how the selective service card was released during the Bush administration to a birther.
You are 100% correct, but then a press conference is not a court of law, and neither is a website.
If there is ever a need to present the Birth Certificate in a court of law, the actual Birth Certificate, not a PDF on a computer screen, will be shown to the court and its authenticity would be proved to the satisfaction of that court upon inspection of the certification and impressed seals thereon.
Thank you for playing.
You’ll be happy to know these “problems” don’t exist with verficiation sent to Kansas.
You’re welcome.
I’ll take a stab at answering your question. IMO, some in the White House thought it was a mistake (a number of anti-birthers agree with them) to release the BC and the thought of the President of the United States having to show his papers for a bunch of RWNJs when he had already released it in 2008 was demeaning to the President and to the office.
Presidents do things for many different reasons such as President Bush and Vice-President Cheney refusing to testify under oath before the 9/11 Committee.
No, we don’t ignore it. We looked at the facts and realized there is nothing to the claims.
Now maybe you will answer my question:
The following are verifiable facts:
President Obama’s Selective Service registration was verified by the Selective Service Administration in February and August of 2008. An image of his SSR card was released to the public in October, 2008. BTW, that’s during the Bush Administration.
President Obama’s SSR card has a 10 digit Document Locator Number (DLN) stamped on it. Other SSR cards from the same Post Office, from the same time period (July/August, 1980) have similar 10 digit DLNs.
Date – JUL 31 1980 DLN – 0897 080 653 (Darrel Oniwa)
Date – JUL 29 1980 DLN – 0897 080 632 (Barack Obama)
Date – AUG 02 1980 DLN – 0897 080 613 (Bruce Henderson)
President Obama was assigned a 10-digit Selective Service number. The other two gentlemen also have 10-digit Selective Service numbers. They are:
Darrel Oniwa – 61-1125556-5
Barack Obama – 61-1125539-1
Bruce Henderson – 61-1125522-7
So here are my questions:
How did President Obama obtain a DLN and SS number issued in 1980 and why did President Bush’s verify that he registered in 1980?
Mr. Reilly,
Here are the questions I mentioned to Doc. If you are inclined and have time I think we’d all find your answer enlightening. Your material is in bold italics.
The Crown Vics were owned by the Cold Case Posse, a non-profit Arizona corporation, and yes they had government plates.
I presume they were purchased as surplus from the county, is that correct? Do you know if the purchase was made from the MCSO before they went to the county for disposal as surplus? And do you have any idea how they retained their government plates once they were sold to a private, non-profit entity?
How about insurance? I know you said you put the one you were assigned on your personal policy but do you know if the posse had insurance….of any kind….in its own name?
Do you know how many cars the Cold Case Posse owned? Were they equipped with any police equipment: MCSO radio? Siren? Emergency lights?
You said something about having gas card or key. Was that a commercial gas credit card or a key to the county pumps?
4. The files were maintained by Commander Mike Zullo. It is his work product.
5. I am unaware of any MCSO DR (case) number. The non-profit CCP Inc. was doing the investigation, not the MCSO.
This really fascinates me. Having been involved with non-profits I know that the members work product belongs to the entity, not the member and especially not the officers.
It strikes me that Zullo can’t have it both ways. Did he explain to you how he felt it was “his work product”? Did he think the posse belonged to him? Did the posse have an attorney? If so, did he/she approve the ownership situation?
As far as the “investigation” is concerned did either Zullo or Arpaio explain how a private entity was going to be able to conduct an “investigation” that one of its founders would own? As you can tell I find the whole proposition dubious, at best.
6. My expenses were paid by Commander Zullo by credit/debit card.
Do you know if it was personal card or the posse or the county? If it was a personal card do you know if and how he was reimbursed and by whom?
You may find this very difficult to believe (as did I), but Commander Zullo informed me that the CCP was used as bar bouncers for taverns and paid less than $10 per hour per person.
This is absolutely mind boggling! Did this stop before you joined the posse? A couple other questions regarding this amazing revelation, if you know the answers:
How was the posse paid?
Were members paid for their time and by whom?
If so were taxes withheld?
Did the posse have business licenses?
Did anyone explain to you how a non-profit charity can compete against private for-profit security companies?
The car that I was assigned was used on those details and exhibited extensive paint damage. Commander Zullo told me that the damage was from throwing people against the car during tavern details.
Leaving aside the phony bravado for the moment did Zullo explain what authority posse members had and who covered them should someone get upset about being thrown up against a car?
That’s it for right now.
Thanks….again.
Actually, they did. They presented a copy of the card and copies of other cards from the same post office and from the same time period. But please don’t let the facts get in the way of your arguments.
There are various standards of evidence. What we have at this site, and what Reilly has chosen to begin accepting, are facsimiles of standards of evidence.
Thank you.
Source? URL?
Thank you.
The press gaggle for April 27th, 2011
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/27/press-gaggle-press-secretary-jay-carney-4272011
Q Will the President be holding it?
MR. PFEIFFER: He will not, and I will not leave it here for him to do so. But it will — the State Department of Health in Hawaii will obviously attest that that is a — what they have on file. As Bob said, it’s in a book in Hawaii.
Source, please.
Here are the one’s Susan Daniels obtained:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q0hVzi4eho4/TfPcqOI23ZI/AAAAAAAADA8/DnzIvIcwtVw/s1600/%25211_SS+%25282%2529-vertA2.jpg
Zullo and company used them and several others. Here are the exhibits the CCp used:
http://www.wnd.com/files/2012/03/SSD.jpg
http://www.wnd.com/files/2012/03/SSB.jpg
BTW, one of the cards they used contradicts one of their claims about the President’s card.
Thanks.
Of course the notion that the President couldn’t have held it if he wished is painfully silly.
And given the event where he commented it’s obvious why he tried to get past the silliness as fast as possible.
—
You’re a legal genius. Not.
Reilly said that he accepted as proof the State of Hawaii’s verification to the State of Arizona. Now, that is evidence. The State of Arizona gave full faith and credit in the verified records of the State of Hawaii. It’s a constitutional thang.
Mr. Reilly does not strike me as a liar. Whether his statements about Obamacare are realistic, accurate or true can be debated. Based on my impression of the man, at this point I believe he says what he says because he believes it.
When bureaucrats vouch for it in an official state document, sealed and signed, that’s no longer “meaningless from an evidentiary standpoint.”
If they were not owned by the county, or any governmental agency, then why did they have governmental plates on them?
You also said “a county gas key was provided”? Is that a county resource? Was that access to the county gas pumps?
Frankly, with the assigning of governmental assets to the Cold Case Posse, Sheriff Joe was lying when he said that no governmental money would be used on this investigation. He already used county resources when he sent a deputy to Hawaii. He now lies when he said that no further county resources were used, because he assigned county vehicles (unless you’re saying that the Cold Case Posse and Sheriff Joe knowingly broke the law by allowing cars that were owned by a Private Entity to use the Governmental Public License Plates).
Now a claim about the authenticity of a document based on the opinion of an unqualified person about a copy of unknown quality and provenance, on the other hand, is indeed “meaningless from an evidentiary standpoint.”
Wow. Are you really this out of touch with what has been said regarding that?
I suppose so. You need to get out more. Out of the birther plantation, that is.
Stunningly improper.
“Ah, memories. The handcrafted artisanal Makiki stamper. And what was the name of that waiter?”
“Jean Luc!”
[Both giggle]
By the way, my favorite part of Mr. Reilly’s story was Arapaio’s suggestion to make him a “colonel.” Kudos to him for not going there.
Too damn bad, that’s how the law in America works.
And he ignores the SS issue because it’s a crock of crap.
Why don’t you explain “standards of evidence” to us?
What standard do the images of the birth certificate and Selective Service registration card meet? Where and under what circumstances would they be admissible in a court….civil or criminal?
That is not “evidence to support their claims about the Selective Service Card”.
That would be “evidence to suport the claim that the CCP (and most birthers) don’t understand what constitutes ‘evidence'”.
At most,it would be “a clue that there is a possibility that a thorough investigation would find evidence”. But there was no such investigation, so the there was no evidence to present.
That would explain why Zullo invests everything he has into this – just imagine having nothing to do and then getting the “case of the century” on your desk.
It would probably be like my local law enforcement asking me to investigate a potential extraterrestrial crash landing in my vicinity.
Again, Catch-22. If he had held it, birthers would’ve claimed he switched the real one his lawyers fetched from Hawaii (y’know, the one that says “borned in Kenyonesia, suckas!”) with the “forgery” when nobody was looking, and that they needed proof and confirmation of confirmation of confirmation that he made no such switcheroo. *smh*
Mr Reilly,
Thank you for the responses, they definitely went a long ways towards filling in some of the glaring gaps in the saga of the CCP.
I am curious as to why you resigned from both Surprise Tea Party Patriots and the Tea Party, would you care to share your reasons?
The things I take away from your replies are:
1) that Zullo the Klown (and company) is a serial and congenital liar;
2) did exactly ZERO real investigation of ANY kind during your tenure with them;
3) were in fact more of an (anti)social club than anything else;
4) that far from the legions that were purported, there were perhaps five actual active members for most of this;
5) that far from being an adjunct of the MCSD, they were in fact a non attached volunteer force with no authority, no portfolio, and no real purpose, except possible to feed Zullo’s ego, and to provide Shurf Joe with a pretend unit and investigation to show some of his constituents that he was doing what “they” wanted;
6) that the CCP did in fact get what were, and should have been county vehicles, with county tags, even though they weren’t part of the MCSD, and did in fact at least in this fashion end up using county funds;
7) that basically, realistically, and legally the CCP were on their own, contrary to Zullo’s assertions that they are a part of MCSD.
I understand the rationale used to justify the allowance of county vehicles to the CCP, “off duty jail wagon detail”, EXCEPT, and I really do mean EXCEPT, that the legal and financial ramifications / liability issues are beyond belief or allowable for the MCSD, and had the county attorney been properly apprized of that, he would have had a stroke at the possible legal liabilities to the county for anything that came about as a result of those actions. So, while justification it might have had from Shurf Joe, legal and allowable, it wasn’t.
Contrary to what the birfer community wants to really really sincerely believe, most anti-birfers are not intent on drowning out their voice. Conversely, it is always interesting to see what they have to say, the fact that most of it gets laughed at, ridiculed, and demolished has to do with the fact that what they have to say is usually based solely on deeply held wishes(well delusions really) and just plain old every day outrageous fantasy, not reality and fact, because, the reality and facts have so far discredited any and all of the still extant birfer claims.
I personally find it deeply troubling, that Shurf Joe and Zullo the Klown “claim they have “probable cause” that a crime or crimes have been committed” when there is in fact no such evidence, and they have been told so by the authority that would have to prosecute if there were. Although considering what we know of Shurf Joe and his take on legal procedure, I would suspect that wishing something were true, and the color of someone’s skin, constitutes “probable cause”, just as Zullo the Klown really doesn’t have a clue as to what it is. The fact that the county attorney has basically told them to pound sand that they have NOTHING, should be an indication of where things actually stand. If the man can’t find his personal Klownmobile in a public garage, that he presumably parks in all the time, (I do want to thank you for that image, I haven’t had such a good laugh in a very long time) how in the name of all that is rational, can he be expected to find something as discreet as a clue, which by all reports, he has still yet to find.
This has, to my way of thinking, been a very good primer to the thinking and actions of the CCP, and where and it is going.
I know this is somewhat off the track, but I am still trying to wrap my mind around why anyone, even Zullo the Klown would think that there was the least bit of rationale in trying to declare a copy, and not only a copy, but a several generations removed copy of a document a fraud or a forgery? That is the one thing I have had no success in coming to terms with, except in a fashion very unflattering to all concerned.
The two biggest, IMHO, if not the most damning things against birthers in general and the CCP in particular having anything, let alone anything of substance, is the simple, indisputable, absolute fact(s) that the Sovereign State of Hawaii released not only one, but two CERTIFIED copies of the birth certificate, and then followed it up with a certification of the record to not one, but several state Sec’s of State, after having stated publicly that the document displayed on the Whitehouse.Gov site was what they had issued. I find this mental discontinuity very hard to defend or comprehend.
Again, I do want to thank you for taking the time, and not to mention the effort, to put this all down on paper, or electrons, as the case may be. I have very much enjoyed reading it, and look forward to further material.
At one point, Corsi was pushing a theory that Hawaii had forged it. There’s a youtube video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7IFDfEGuk
Then, a few days later, he came out with a completely different theory. There’s a youtube video about that, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqolJTJD-t8
One or both of them have snide comments from me about the sudden volte face (or, perhaps, “volte cul” would be more apt…).
The CCP and its minions have been insinuating from the very beginning, off and on, that Hawaii might be involved.
If you buy that, verifications and certified copies are part of the fraud, not evidence against it.
And the birfers have yet to produce a single thing that meets any of them.
Currently over at the cess pool that is Birfoon Report, the thread “Report: Washington DC unprepared for Sherriff Joe Arpaio Universe shattering surprise”
http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/03/report-washington-dc-unprepared-for.html
The current goal post shifting seems to be being led by Mark Gillar
“I’m involved in the new release. Nothing in is from two years ago. NOTHING! Again, you’re lying.
You have no idea how much work is going on behind the scenes. If you think because Arpaio isn’t sending you a daily briefing that nothing is happening then I welcome you to continue living in blissful ignorance. ”
===========================
“Things are a bit different this time. The LFBC and Selective Service Card investigations resulted in the discovery of many other crimes that were committed by this regime. Some of which will piss off democrats and republicans alike. Don’t focus on a timeline. As far as I’m concerned as long as it breaks by summer and impacts the 2014 midterms, I’ll be happy. The delays are coming because of the amount of time that is taking to retrieve and log the large amount evidence as well as make sure the proper chain of custody is preserved and recorded. The evidence is different this time. I’d back off criticizing the CCP. You’ll have a lot of egg on your face when this is over if you continue. ”
===========================
“Arpaio knows. As Mike said, the wall between the CCP and MCSO have come down given the nature of the new crimes discovered. As I’ve said on other boards, the LFBC is just the tip of a very large iceberg of corruption. Americans will wonder if there is anyone left in government that they really can trust by the time this is over.
I know the LFBC is the focus for many of you, but the entire story will knock you socks off once it comes out. ”
=============================
“It’s not a hoax. The amount of evidence being collected at this point is very large. It has to be collected and cataloged while taking care to preserve the proper chain of custody”
============================
So, making the stunningly insane leap that Gillar is actually relevant, the CCCP and Piehole are desperately moving from the BC being all dead fake and evil to “We don’t care about the BC it’s all of no note, it’s all the OTHER secret stuff we have uncovered but can’t tell anyone about that makes it Universe Shattering”
Mr. Reilly:
I am impressed by your candor and your followup. Obviously you are committed to the noble truth, and for that I commend you.
Like I said on the Fogbow, I’ll forgive you your earlier birthing, and even your Tea Party leanings, that we may work together to reclaim an honest, civil, two-sided discourse and rise above all the hatred that’s been going around.
Cheers!
Actually they didn’t. What exactly do the other cards prove? Other than Obama’s registration number is within the same range of the others found. Meaning he registered on time back in 1980. Yes don’t let hard facts get in the way of your crazy beliefs. As I linked to above the Selective Service System verified that Obama was properly registered. I notice you didn’t answer my question.
If Gillar is involved in the new release is it safe to assume the new information is going to be as fraudulent as the race coding he was involved in last time? He still hasn’t come up with a real answer of why the 1968 codes were presented as 1961 codes other than his claim that it was a production error.
At one point he said that he just used the material he was given, and had nothing to do with the content. That could be true.
Yeah, I was noticing how quietly it had become, after so much hubbub in the first week of March, the Faithful expecting action on March 1, it had seemed to have been swept under the rug. Then they hit again. Now specifying a late March event 😉
There’s any number of crazy stories about Obama on the Internet.
No, but the three signed and sealed verifications of that document from Hawaii sent directly to two secretaries of state and one residing in a federal court in Mississippi ARE qualified legal evidence and ARE admissible.
What is your excuse for continuing to have doubts in the face of these verifications? Reilly at least knows what evidence is and was willing to follow it.
I must say though, the amount of mutually excusive theories, generally insane posts and outright fratricide going on over there is delicious.
“furtive”, “Cassandra Hocutt”, “BirtherPro” and “ScottKB1978” are all a-kickin and a-scratchin all and sundry
Still, best to keep them all on this site, we spent a lot of time and effort building it as a fly catcher for when we sic FEMA on ’em, round ’em up and send them to the camps
A better rewording of the title: “Report: Still nobody cares about us crazy birthers, just like the 5 years before”.
So the CCP is investigating Fast & Furious and Benghaaaaaaaaaazi and the NSA spying now? Whodathunk?
Actually I think this may be another exit strategy. They’ve been very careful to point out the “universe-shattering” stuff is *not* about the BC or SSN (the old claim of “proof of forgery that would convince even the greatest skeptic” hasn’t been mentioned for about a year now). So maybe they’ll just present some crazy heap of other stuff related to known “scandals” (with more stuff printed from the Internet like those “Kenyan intelligence documents”) and then claim it’s up to Congress to act on it.
Because I don’t believe they are able to bring any new birther stuff.
“Some of which will piss off democrats and republicans alike” sounds a lot like it has zero relation to birtherism (that’s why my money is on NSA stuff since that would probably date back to the Bush era).
I re-read the section from “Double Down: Game Change 2012” that contains the behind-the-scenes accounts of the release of the long form. There is nothing there about Pfeiffer not letting Obama hold his birth certificate. From that, I conclude that you are lying about such an event happening.
The transcript you alluded to says that the President would not hold up the certificate, but it does not say that he wasn’t allowed to hold up the certificate.
If you can actually document that Pfeiffer would not let Obama hold the form (which is absurd because Obama is the President and can do whatever he damned well pleases), please provide it. Otherwise I will assume that you must make stuff to suit your delusions and your comments aren’t worth reading, much less answering.
Am I the only one greatly amused by the delicious irony and near complete hypocrisy between those two consecutive paragraphs? Somehow… the Cold Case Posse’s “copies” are evidence, but everybody else’s responses (to include those directly from the SSS themselves) are mere “facsimiles of standards of evidence.” The double standard whiplash between those paragraphs is severe.
That said… please, could you tell us exactly what you understand to be the “evidence” of forgery present in “a copy of the card and copies of other cards from the same post office and from the same time period”? No points for bald assertions.
That’s just adorable. Bless your pea pickin’ heart.
If all your quotes are from comments to the thread you linked to, guess what? They are all gone.
I’m reminded of Gillar’s offer to debate me on his blogcast last year, but when Zullo got a whiff of it he ordered Gillar to stand down. Gillar claimed that Zullo was afraid he’d slip up and release secret information.
How much do you want to bet Zullo came down on Gillar again for spilling the imaginary beans?
Not really. I had the same initial reaction, but they’re just hard to find because BR rolls up comments after some number is reached. Here are direct links to two of them:
http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/03/report-washington-dc-unprepared-for.html#IDComment805186275
http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/03/report-washington-dc-unprepared-for.html#IDComment805189923
I realize that in theory, but how about reality? Do you have any clue whether that rule is being followed?
It doesn’t look like Mr. Day is going to answer our questions about why the Bush Administration verified the President’s registration or how the President was able to obtain 1980 era SS numbers.
Par for the course.
Just another coward.
Re: ” don’t know if the LFBC is a forgery or not. I do know that waving a paper around in front of reporters and posting a facsimile on the web is not admissible evidence and so if it’s pretty meaningless from an evidentiary standpoint, no matter how many bureaucrats vouch for it.”
NO other president has even shown his birth certificate. Obama has shown both the short form and the long form and the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that they sent it to him, and they confirmed that all the facts on the copy the White House put online MATCH what they sent to him. Also, the fact that Obama received a BC in Hawaii was also confirmed by the public Index Data file and the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers.
And yet a few GULLIBLE people believe the lies of birthers that Obama’s birth certificate is forged. (I wonder why they did not ask for evidence that confirmed Mitt Romney’s birth certificate, which was only a Web image of a photocopy, was not forged. I wonder???)
Cold Case Posse claims mean nothing because they have been caught lying and fabricating evidence in the matter of the race code table.
Even with the Obama application, they shot the photo at an angle that makes the placement of the year slug appear out of line when it isn’t.
The CCP’s argument was that it was impossible for part of the year to be missing, but they didn’t disclose how many cards they checked, nor published what they looked like to see what might have been missing.
Basically all you have is a vague statement from a proven liar, and that’s not anything to base a belief on.
Reilly has been out of the loop for quite a while, and the claims that “two deputies” are full time helping the CCP postdate his resignation.
I think a big part of Reilly’s “conversion” was a “come-to-jesus moment” when his insurance agent either told him they couldn’t insure his Crown Vic for liability or gave him an astronomical figure for the premium. The letter from Montgomery was just the icing on the cake.
The Verification Letter covers the specific questions that Secretary of State Bennett asked but it also verifies ALL the information on the copy of the whitehouse.gov image copy that was attached to the request for a Letter of Verification.
The three verification letters from the Hawaii Registrar state: “I verify that the information contained in the vital record on file at the Department of Health was used to verify the FACTS of the vital event.”
Two Republican Secretaries of State in Arizona and Kansas used the Letters of Verification to approve Barack Obama for their states’ ballots and a Reagan-appointed federal judge in Mississippi has a third letter of verification from Hawaii but since June of 2012, he has not ruled on it as probative evidence. The Alabama Supreme Court also has a copy of one of the Letters of Verification that was submitted in an amicus brief. They also have not yet ruled.
Well, certainly it was an “error” to produce it in the first place. 😉
What he really needs to ‘splain is why it’s still up on Youtube, under his own account, even though he knows it’s, at best, “erroneous”.
Although it’s unfair to give him the benefit of that doubt, because the video, itself, proves he just flat-out lied: starting at 30 seconds in, they put the (incorrect) coding guideline on the screen, which says “Unknown or not stated (Race of parents only)”. The voice-over says it’s just “Not stated”, and they later apply it to a field that is not race of parents. That’s two lies.
He didn’t pull the video. He didn’t add a comment explaining it’s a mistake. He’s a liar, plain and simple.
Of course, if they were “preserv[ing] the proper chain of custody”, they wouldn’t allow the non-LEO con artists at the CCP to be in the same ZIP code with it. Much less process it.
And, if “As Mike said, the wall between the CCP and MCSO have come down”, does that mean that Shurf Joe is now going to provide the financial accounting he been ducking? (I wonder if Gilliar knows that the MCSO denied what “Mike said” within hours of his having said it. Or will it turn out that that was merely a clever ploy to lull the Eevull Obots into a foolish compacency? Tune in Any Day Now for the next installment of “As the Worm Spins”).
They could very well be discussing stool samples.
I’m pretty disappointed in the potential switch to more ‘mainstream’ wingnut memes (Benghazi!!!, Fast’n’Furry, The War on Christmas). It would be a shrewd move by the CCCP, at least in terms of support the overall rightwing cause. To shepherd their flock back into the fold as it were. Let them down easy on birther front, moving them back into the main crazy tent just in time for the election cycle.
But, it would make the CCCP-branch of birferstan a lot less interesting. Dilute their appeal amongst many interest groups. Fast’n’Furry is in Arpaio’s neighborhood. Maybe he and Zullo could continue shilling based on faux immigration concerns.
If there is a shift, at least some of the birfers will squawk, and that will be fun to watch 😀
Another Friday passes without a ruling from the Alabama Supreme Court. The birthers seem to have given up on that one.
I remember, not so long ago, Lyin’ Carl Gallups whooping it up that MCSO can now justify spending taxpayer dollars, and whooping it up that MCSO deputies and the tax dollars actually are now involved. I believe Zupoo was also on that show, agreeing and uttering flatulent flurbergablations.
“I was just following orders.”
Sorry, there seems to be an error in the above quote. [Mark Gillar claimed he had] “nothing to do with the con” should read “nothing to do with the content.”
Don’t know quite how that happened.
????
Is the focus now going to shift to President Obama’s roots on a reptilian-alien planet? God, I hope so. That would be fun.
Yah, I agree. I think we could be looking at an exit strategy here.
With all due respect, all you have is a facsimile from a proven liar, and that’s not anything to base a belief on.
You fools have no standing.
That’s funny that’s what the courts keep saying to you guys
No what we have is the state verification, the index data, the birth announcements, the 1961 INS data for Barack Obama Sr and a 1967 state department memo all saying Barack Hussein Obama II was born on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu Hawaii. Oh and a President twice elected.
Actually, the State of Hawaii has verified the President’s birth in Hawaii, making him a Natural-Born Citizen. They have the real thing, not a facsimile. So even if you think he’s a liar, he’s not involved in the verification. Game over, Birfer.
Elected twice, both times by a decisive majority of voters AND electors.
Confirmed by both houses of Congress… twice.
Sworn in by the Chief Justice… FOUR times.
And Birfers have never won a case.
Barack Hussein Obama, 44th President of the United States of America,
now serving in his sixth year in that office.
Not a damn thing Birfers can do to change that.
Hope that keeps you up at night.
But we have the facts on our side which explains why you can’t answer the questions.
OH, THE IRONY. Again.
Actually, we have a PDF and photographs of the certified copy of President Obama’s long form birth certificate and COLB. As to your beliefs that President Obama is a liar, there is nothing of relevance to be found in your accusations. All birthers have are claims of forgery based on copies of originals… And they lack in standing, every time they try to file foolish legal claims.
Furthermore we have letters of verification that verify the data on these documents.
What do you have? Irrational fear, hatred and ignorance.
Never mixes well.
Yes, the comment engine at BR is awful. Why he chose Intense Debate is beyond me. The comment rollup thing is stupid. Their RSS comment feed hasn’t worked since they changed.
At least now, when you click on “Go to comment” in the subscription emails, you actually get to the comment unlike the way it used to be–going nowhere.
There is an Intense Debate plug-in for WordPress, assuming he ever gets moved to the new server.
You’re kidding, right? Zullo has been shown to be a proven liar many times over and we also have a former member of the CCP who will attest that Zullo ignored and fabricated evidence. So basically, all you got is a scam artist. State of Hawaii is much more believable than a bar bouncer (which is all the CCP basically is).
We don’t need standing, the President is legally and constitutionally occupying the WH and leading our country. Nothing you can do to change that.
There’s also no “case or controversy”.
Obama could end all this tomorrow by releasing a certified copy of his long form birth certificate.
I think you’re confusing us with every single birther plaintiff ever.
He has “The Truth” LOL
NOT!
(he capitalized Truth on another thread, I’m certain this is a sockpuppet of “The Truth.”) 😛
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf
“All you have is massive amounts of documented evidence that Obama is exactly who you said he is; a Chief Justice who swore him in with a smile on his face twice; Court decisions that said Obama is a natural born citizen and that Birfers have nothing admissible or even credible saying otherwise; two electoral college votes with no objections finding he won the election; myriad common-sense arguments; the unwavering backing of the Pentagon, and the recognition that Obama is the legitimate US President by the entire world.”
“While WE have anecdotes by convicted criminals and certified nutcases; unsupported assertions by partisan hate-mongers; cherry-picked, misrepresented or invented “evidence”; numerous fake documents like foreign birth certificates issued by convicted forgers; hundreds of debunked lies; and an ideologically-driven refusal to accept objective reality.”
“Obviously, we win!”
If you are still accepting questions, I have one:
You state your initial interest was in “the PDF copy of the Obama birth certificate to determine whether there was a criminal violation of Arizona Revised Statute 13-2407 A-C, which declares that tampering with a public record is a class 6 felony.”
But isn’t that a non-starter? As far as I know, the PDF has never been presented as a legal document in any court of law. It’s just a souvenir for the tourists.