The occasional open thread: secure end-to-end edition

Posted on April 30, 2015 by Dr. Conspiracy

Place your secure or otherwise Obama conspiracy comments that don’t relate to the current articles here. This thread will close in 2 weeks.

For more on end-to-end communications, see:

About Dr. Conspiracy

I'm not a real doctor, but I have a master's degree.
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149 Responses to The occasional open thread: secure end-to-end edition

  1. RanTalbott says:
    April 30, 2015 at 7:44 pm  (Quote)

    Am I the only one who’s stopped getting “New reply” notification emails? I haven’t seen any since the 24th. I’ve even done a manual update of my subscriptions to make sure I hadn’t accidentally turned something off.

  2. wrecking ball says:
    April 30, 2015 at 10:38 pm  (Quote)

    there may be a new addition to the birther mythology. in an interview with joel gilbert, malik obama calls frank marshall davis the POTUS’s “step-father” and the kenyan daily post repeats the error:

    http://www.kenyan-post.com/2015/04/shock-obamas-family-now-disowns-him-his.html

  3. RanTalbott says:
    April 30, 2015 at 11:35 pm  (Quote)

    wrecking ball: and the kenyan daily post repeats the error:

    They also misspelled his name.

    Also on Gerbil Report: Berg is flogging a new book, and released a statement in which he dragged out the “sealed records” dead horse to beat it again, and claimed that “Barry Soetoro” is Obama’s “birth name”.

  4. John Reilly says:
    May 1, 2015 at 12:15 am  (Quote)

    RanTalbott: They also misspelled his name.

    Also on Gerbil Report: Berg is flogging a new book, and released a statement in which he dragged out the “sealed records” dead horse to beat it again, and claimed that “Barry Soetoro” is Obama’s “birth name”.

    I trust Mr. Berg had a certified long-form birth certificate with that information.

  5. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 1, 2015 at 4:10 am  (Quote)

    John Reilly: I trust Mr. Berg had a certified long-form birth certificate with that information.

    iCq9PP=-1§4gHaalmy’ns

    (Note: today’s encryption key is #2342* from the black book. Remember your time zone adjustments and the azimuth of Nh’Gheenargx.)

    ____
    *two-three-four-two / zwo-drei-vier-zwo / ghadun-shr’xin-paqmyys-ghadun

  6. Lupin says:
    May 1, 2015 at 5:59 am  (Quote)

    I have always maintained that Apuzzo and others like him (not the poor deluded bigots at Gerbil Report) were but sock puppets to popularize the notion of getting rid of jus soli in America, using Obama as a pretext to getting rid of automatic citizenship for brown babies.

    According to WAPO the issue is now being mainstreamed:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/house-republicans-try-to-gut-a-key-constitutional-principle/2015/04/29/a365c4c4-eeb6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

  7. Lupin says:
    May 1, 2015 at 6:03 am  (Quote)

    More on the issue:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/steve-king-what-happens-demographics-america-if-birthright-citizenship-continues

    The question that comes to mind is, Is there any aspect of the US of A that conservatives actually like?

  8. John Reilly says:
    May 1, 2015 at 9:48 am  (Quote)

    Lupin:
    More on the issue:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/steve-king-what-happens-demographics-america-if-birthright-citizenship-continues

    The question that comes to mind is, Is there any aspect of the US of A that conservatives actually like?

    Well, I’m a conservative, so don’t lump me in with the nuts, who exist on both side of the aisle.

    But to answer your question, yes thee is. NASCAR.

  9. Kate says:
    May 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm  (Quote)

    Lupin:
    More on the issue:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/steve-king-what-happens-demographics-america-if-birthright-citizenship-continues

    The question that comes to mind is, Is there any aspect of the US of A that conservatives actually like?

    King made the statement that the statute hands over the immigration issue to everybody but Americans. WTF? Do these idiots in Congress actually think about what they are saying? The statute allows the children born here to be natural born citizens at birth. That means they are American but they still won’t be voting for 18 years. The statute doesn’t give their parents, if aliens, the right to vote, unless they go through the naturalization process and actually become a citizen. That would make them American, too, albeit, naturalized Americans, with the right to vote. However, at no time is anyone who is not American deciding anything in the voting booth. Long past time to remove these nut jobs from Congress. They truly have no idea what they are talking about, they just open their mouth and spew whatever they think will rattle their base and get them to the voting booths.

  10. Suranis says:
    May 1, 2015 at 3:27 pm  (Quote)

    Well, I think we can all agree that a bill totighten up birthright citizenship is a lot different to pretending that a whole bunch of Americans are not citizens becasue.

    It would be hypocritical of me to pretend I would not be sympathetic to that as I supported the removal of Jus Soli from Irish law back in 2003. Since the first of January 2004 you need one citizen parent and birth on siol to be a Natural Born Irish Citizen, which tbh does not give you any rights over a naturalized one in Irish Law afaik.

    BUT the law also states flatly that anyone born on soil PREVIOUS to 2004 is an NBC.No-one lost their rights when the rules were changed.

    Its very possible that Apuzzo was getting paid by someone to long term advance such a position. Someone was definitely supporting him with cash. But at least its one that is worthy of debate.

  11. Suranis says:
    May 1, 2015 at 3:29 pm  (Quote)

    Well, I think we can all agree that a bill to tighten up birthright citizenship is a lot different to pretending that a whole bunch of Americans are not citizens because gibberish.

    It would be hypocritical of me to pretend I would not be sympathetic to that as I supported the removal of Jus Soli from Irish law back in 2003. Since the first of January 2004 you need one citizen parent and birth on siol to be a Natural Born Irish Citizen, which tbh does not give you any rights over a naturalized one in Irish Law afaik.

    BUT the law also states flatly that anyone born on soil PREVIOUS to 2004 is an NBC.No-one lost their rights when the rules were changed.

    Its very possible that Apuzzo was getting paid by someone to long term advance such a position. Someone was definitely supporting him with cash. But at least its one that is worthy of debate.

  12. Suranis says:
    May 1, 2015 at 4:27 pm  (Quote)

    Ahh the Scotte method. make silly unsourced allegations, or allegations based on loony tunes websites, but refuse to do any research himself and cause people to run around “proving him wrong”. This is him using “allynsky tactics” to wreck us all.

    Otherwise known as being bone ass lazy, and additionally it does not require him to have any intelligence or thinking ability to debate people, which is good.for him.

    Oh his “Jesus was a community organizer” bullshit was a transparent attempt to have us bring up Saul Allynsky as we are all such disciples of him we would have seen the reference and that would “prove” that we are all his disciples. Of course that failed as no-one but me saw the reference, and that’s only because I enjoyed making Scotte look totally ridiculous on another forum for the better part of a year where he CONSTANTLY blubbered on about his friend Saul.

  13. scott e says:
    May 1, 2015 at 4:29 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That’s not all you said. “Bent” and “tainted” are not the same thing.

    sorry again, i meant bend, and tainted, their “bent”, is toward liberalism. also a good example of why i use caps sparingly.
    example: MLK’s
    ‘The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.’

    i say they aren’t the final/only source in this story that’s all.

  14. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 1, 2015 at 4:34 pm  (Quote)

    OK, so it’s happening again.

    I let scott e comment some, and then he escalates to 12 comments in a short period. Some of the comments are things so utterly wrong, that they goad any reasonable person into replying. Other comments are just catty comebacks. Very few actually say anything useful from any point of view.

    Rather than debate a substantive issue, the discussion becomes an argument about what was said and what was not said or who is smarter than someone else. All of this fits my criteria for a troll, stirring up controversy for fun.

    I’ve deleted a bunch of scott’s comments (the most trollish), and will continue to do so, while keeping him in moderation.

    scott e: it’s ok, i have internet. now, could this case climb the judicial ladder ? or does this judge have final say.

  15. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 1, 2015 at 6:17 pm  (Quote)

    It seems common among Internet birthers to use “liberal” as a magic word that dismisses any inconvenient facts or information from a source so-labeled. That’s what it looked like you were doing, using the word “tainted” to reject the information, without argument or justification.

    You rarely justify anything you say, which is why I delete so much of it.

    scott e: sorry again, i meant bend, and tainted, their “bent”, is toward liberalism. also a good example of why i use caps sparingly.

  16. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 1, 2015 at 7:32 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i had to find out how you (anti Bers) would react, and in what time frame. after all this time i’m ok w/it. i just wonder if fogbow engaged in some pranks from time to time, i’ll have to check my notes.

    ah yes I’m sure that’s totally how a punking works where Scotty challenges someone to a debate and then chickens out and runs away. Totally good punking it just made you look even more stupid. Yes I’m sure the notes are next to your elephant dung paintings.

  17. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 1, 2015 at 7:34 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: sorry again, i meant bend, and tainted, their “bent”, is toward liberalism. also a good example of why i use caps sparingly.
    example: MLK’s
    ‘The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.’

    i say they aren’t the final/only source in this story that’s all.

    How exactly is their bent toward liberalism if you refuse to read anything they’ve written? It’s just another one of Scotty don’ts assumptions.

  18. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    May 1, 2015 at 11:59 pm  (Quote)

    Had to do some anthill poking at BR. Managed to get myself banned almost as quickly as I appeared. 🙂

  19. Color Me Skeptical says:
    May 2, 2015 at 12:27 am  (Quote)

    Arpaio’s not the only one!!!

    Someone says there are reports going around that obama’s brother Malik is not telling the truth about something either: have you heard anything about that?

  20. Slartibartfast says:
    May 2, 2015 at 1:15 am  (Quote)

    Scott,

    During the Bush administration, FOX News would read the administration’s daily talking points on the air. It is nothing more than a right-wing propaganda outlet, qualitatively different from other news sources, whatever their bias. Their dialectic is nothing more than “Repubican president good, Democrat[sic] president bad”.

    scott e: it’s a two way street. i know this paper has an agenda. the libs say that about foxnews (hannity for sure), to an extent, it’s true. the same is true for the relationship some liberal media have with our politicians. i maintain my stance that some of the media is tainted, biased, and without objective purview. there are exceptions, this paper is a good example. i can provide examples. i remember researching their background (phoenix times), i’ll check my notes.
    jesus was a wonderful community organiser, i wish he was mayor of chicago, detroit and now baltimore.

  21. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 2, 2015 at 5:35 am  (Quote)

    Suranis: I enjoyed making Scotte look totally ridiculous on another forum for the better part of a year where he CONSTANTLY blubbered on about his friend Saul

    Next on FOX: Better call Saul (Alinsky).

  22. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 2, 2015 at 8:32 am  (Quote)

    Smear filmmaker Joel Gilbert recorded an interview with the president’s half brother Malik, in which Malik purportedly says that the President is not being honest. There’s an article at Birther Report.

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/obama-brother-unloads-resident-obama-is.html

    Color Me Skeptical: Someone says there are reports going around that obama’s brother Malik is not telling the truth about something either: have you heard anything about that?

  23. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 2, 2015 at 9:09 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Smear filmmaker Joel Gilbert recorded an interview with the president’s half brother Malik, in which Malik purportedly says that the President is not being honest. There’s an article at Birther Report.

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/obama-brother-unloads-resident-obama-is.html

    Isn’t this the same guy that BR and other birther sites has claimed was tied to terrorism and was crazy and yet now they take his word?

  24. scott e says:
    May 2, 2015 at 9:39 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It seems common among Internet birthers to use “liberal” as a magic word that dismisses any inconvenient facts or information from a source so-labeled. That’s what it looked like you were doing, using the word “tainted” to reject the information, without argument or justification.

    You rarely justify anything you say, which is why I delete so much of it.

    that’s cool. let me ask you this. i don’t even know where you are on the political horoscope wheel.

    foggy, i assume is still a “lib”. but do you fine folks think fox leans right ?

    people assume that i am a republican, i’m not. but i do recognise bias in the media. it has become a major component in the landscape. so too, unfortunately has money and meanness. how do we get away from that doc ?

    i think we all agree the election plan we have now is gasping.

  25. scott e says:
    May 2, 2015 at 9:42 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: How exactly is their bent toward liberalism if you refuse to read anything they’ve written?It’s just another one of Scotty don’ts assumptions.

    i read it, if i have time. i read a lot from both sides of the aisle. i suppose it’s my perception. i find the media tres’ interesting, don’t you ?

  26. scott e says:
    May 2, 2015 at 9:52 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: MLK said that, but it wasn’t an original thought. When he first used it, he put it in quotation marks. The sentiment dates back to 1857 and the exact quotation dates back to 1918.

    http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/11/15/arc-of-universe/

    The story isn’t over yet, so no one is the final source. And no one ever claimed that the Phoenix New Times is the only source.

    thank you, and i don’t think i said i refuse to read it, if i did i mispoke. i read evrything i can find time for, including mother jones, rolling stone. the nyt, wapo etc.. i watch all of the major news networks, my favorites are foxnews and lester holt, whom i really hope gets the anchor permanent spot. olberman rachel maddow, lawrence odonnel when i’m feeling outrageous. rush, levine, savage and liberal radio when i can find it when i’m home in the mountains.
    U R right the story isn’t over. i was of course referring to the montgomery speech “how long, not long”. it’s the greatest speech i’ve ever heard.

  27. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 2, 2015 at 10:51 am  (Quote)

    There is a reason for that. I separate my politics from my blogging here.

    First, contrary to the storm of comments to the contrary at Birther Report, my Obama Conspiracy blogging is not related to a political ideology but comes out of a belief in truth, the scientific method, and the rule of law. I participate in the YouGov opinion polls, and they often ask the question: “Do you consider yourself a:

    a Strong Conservative
    b Conservative
    c Moderate
    d Liberal
    e Strong liberal

    And I will answer either c or d, but really I consider myself a pragmatist. A working idea that makes the country a better place is good whether it is a liberal or a conservative idea. I think both sides demonize the other.

    If you hold onto the fantasy that Fox News isn’t a rightist organization, read the biography of Roger Ailes, “The Loudest Voice in the Room.” Fox News was created to move the country to the right, and that was never a secret.

    scott e: . i don’t even know where you are on the political horoscope wheel.

  28. Notorial Dissent says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:04 am  (Quote)

    But but but he’s saying what they want to hear now.

  29. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:11 am  (Quote)

    scott e: i read it, if i have time. i read a lot from both sides of the aisle. i suppose it’s my perception. i find the media tres’ interesting, don’t you ?

    Yet you refused to actually read that article why is that?

  30. scott e says:
    May 2, 2015 at 7:46 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Yet you refused to actually read that article why is that?

    i’m still not quite sure why you persist with i haven’t read that, like you are trying to relegate me to some sort of lower intellectual species.

  31. Rickey says:
    May 2, 2015 at 8:15 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: do you fine folks think fox leans right ?

    people assume that i am a republican, i’m not. but i do recognise bias in the media.

    You recognize bias in the media, yet you have to ask if Fox leans right?

    Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Lou Dobbs, Neil Cavuto, Steve Doocy, Brian Kilmeade, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, — do you see anyone there who is not a conservative?

    The closest thing Fox has to a moderate in prime time is Greta Van Susteren.

    MSNBC leans left, but its morning show host is Joe Scarborough, a conservative Republican.

  32. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 2, 2015 at 8:15 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i’m still not quite sure why you persist with i haven’t read that, like you are trying to relegate me to some sort of lower intellectual species.

    Let’s see every time the article was mentioned you have yet to say you read it, understood it or what your real objections were to it. You stated that you didn’t ever say you didn’t read it yet you have yet to say you actually did. I don’t have to relegate you to some lower intellectual species you seem to do that all by yourself.

  33. bgansel9 says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:10 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: my Obama Conspiracy blogging is not related to a political ideology but comes out of a belief in truth, the scientific method, and the rule of law.

    and I’ve never felt the need to question your political leanings. They don’t matter. I see a person trying to present valid information. Your political opinion has never even crossed my mind.

  34. Keith says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:19 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i had to find out how you (anti Bers) would react, and in what time frame. after all this time i’m ok w/it. i just wonder if fogbow engaged in some pranks from time to time, i’ll have to check my notes.

    Bull Feces.

    You just wanted to bluster, and convinced yourself that ‘libruls don’t debate’ I can make ’em look scared. Then when you realized they really would debate, you had nothing and chickened out.

    You bailed in the most cowardly way possible.

    And you’ve still got nothing and you are still a coward.

  35. bgansel9 says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:24 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: their “bent”, is toward liberalism.

    I’m a very political person. I post on politics on Facebook many times a day. It’s really funny, but, I’ve never gotten involved in politics here. You can go back and read posts from the last five or six years (more? I can’t remember) and you’ll find that we don’t really discuss politics here. It’s all about the truth of actual reality regarding the birth certificate, the lawsuits, the investigations, the birther’s reactions. That’s all we discuss (well, with the exception of the crazed lunatic who thinks she’s killed 30 or more people). You seem to need to discuss politics for some reason which I can’t understand. It’s not ordinary conversation here.

  36. Keith says:
    May 2, 2015 at 11:27 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Lou Dobbs, Neil Cavuto, Steve Doocy, Brian Kilmeade, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, — do you see anyone there who is not a conservative?

    I do: all of them are reactionaries acting out of a personal agenda to keep their contract alive.

  37. Lupin says:
    May 3, 2015 at 6:05 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: If you hold onto the fantasy that Fox News isn’t a rightist organization, read the biography of Roger Ailes, “The Loudest Voice in the Room.” Fox News was created to move the country to the right, and that was never a secret.

    The #1 issue I have with Fox isn’t that they’re on the right side of the political spectrum, but it is that they LIE (very often) and whip up old people in a state of panic, turning them into adrenalin junkies.

    As a former subscriber to THE ECONOMIST I dearly wish there was an intelligent, truthful conservative news organ in the US. The WSJ used to be that (barring some third-party editorials) but it no longer is.

  38. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 3, 2015 at 8:55 am  (Quote)

    You forgot the url:

    http://oarpa.net

    The Magic M (not logged in): (Note: today’s encryption key is #2342* from the black book. Remember your time zone adjustments and the azimuth of Nh’Gheenargx.)

  39. scott e says:
    May 3, 2015 at 10:39 am  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast:
    Scott,

    During the Bush administration, FOX News would read the administration’s daily talking points on the air.It is nothing more than a right-wing propaganda outlet, qualitatively different from other news sources, whatever their bias.Their dialectic is nothing more than “Repubican president good, Democrat[sic] president bad”.

    in my opinion, citizen journalism should/could replace all of the outlets. i think they have all become stale. you are right, journalism is changing for the better i hope.
    but people can get their news in many different ways.

  40. scott e says:
    May 3, 2015 at 10:42 am  (Quote)

    bgansel9: I’m a very political person. I post on politics on Facebook many times a day. It’s really funny, but, I’ve never gotten involved in politics here. You can go back and read posts from the last five or six years (more? I can’t remember) and you’ll find that we don’t really discuss politics here. It’s all about the truth of actual reality regarding the birth certificate, the lawsuits, the investigations, the birther’s reactions. That’s all we discuss (well, with the exception of the crazed lunatic who thinks she’s killed 30 or more people). You seem to need to discuss politics for some reason which I can’t understand. It’s not ordinary conversation here.

    i guess you are right.

  41. scott e says:
    May 3, 2015 at 10:47 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: You recognize bias in the media, yet you have to ask if Fox leans right?

    Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Megyn Kelly, Lou Dobbs, Neil Cavuto, Steve Doocy, Brian Kilmeade, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, — do you see anyone there who is not a conservative?

    The closest thing Fox has to a moderate in prime time is Greta Van Susteren.

    MSNBC leans left, but its morning show host is Joe Scarborough, a conservative Republican.

    we talked about this just the other day. you are correct, oreilly exempts himself, but he conservative at heart too. yeah, you get no disagreement on that. what about the other outlets ? cnn and the rest.

  42. scott e says:
    May 3, 2015 at 1:49 pm  (Quote)

    i just recently learned that walter cronkite was liberal. fox is certainly agenda to the right. i just wanted to know what you all think about the subject. the only media i will trust or support pretty much draws toward the citizen as journalists. breitbart had it right. i think the founding fathers and mothers were right.

  43. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 3, 2015 at 1:49 pm  (Quote)

    I would agree that there are valuable alternatives to the mainstream media, but there is also monumental ineptitude and bias with citizen journalism.

    Charles Lewis in his book “935 lies” talks about non-profit alternatives to the mainstream media, but trained and qualified journalists are required to get the stories. Otherwise how could you tell the gold from the crap — rely on how much they sooth your own opinion? You wouldn’t let people practice law or medicine without training. We have a 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech, but that doesn’t mean that everybody’s speech is of equal value.

    That is one reason Fox News is so popular, they tell stories to reinforce the prejudices of their audience, not challenge them. Several birthers have commented that they get all their news from like-minded “patriotic” web sites, and refuse to listen to anything else. That is a recipe for wrong.

    scott e: in my opinion, citizen journalism should/could replace all of the outlets.

  44. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:06 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: in my opinion, citizen journalism should/could replace all of the outlets.

    Do you go to a “citizen doctor”?

  45. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:07 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: That is a recipe for wrong.

    It’s a recipe for disaster, for a dysfunctional democracy.

  46. scott e says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:11 pm  (Quote)

    i found it doc, it was john woodman’s old site:

    Mar 17, 2012

    i knew i had seen it somewhere. but before that around 2008 right ?

  47. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:17 pm  (Quote)

    I agree fully. I would add, however, that there is no imperative that qualified journalists have to work for a newspaper, magazine, or broadcaster.

    In the past, the financial resources necessary for journalistic endeavor set some kind of a bar to keep out the riffraff. With the Internet that’s no longer the case. The mainstream media seems to lack the stomach for some stories, and conglomerates have all but made the independent newspaper extinct. So I think we’re in a difficult time for journalism. Who’s going to break the next Watergate scandal?

    A secondary problem is that there are some stories just too obscure to get covered, like Strunk’s latest appeal to the Supreme Court. Things like that are left for folks like me with no credentials in journalism, a B- writing skill, no hard research capability, and no editor.

    CarlOrcas: It’s a recipe for disaster, for a dysfunctional democracy.

  48. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:19 pm  (Quote)

    I never read Breitbart while he was alive, but the stuff his organization puts out now is crap.

    scott e: breitbart had it right

  49. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:21 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i just recently learned that walter cronkite

    Really? Who told you?

    scott e: i just wanted to know what you all think about the subject.

    Think about what? Walter Cronkite’s politics? I know people who worked with him who said they were never sure which way he leaned.

    scott e: the only media i will trust or support pretty much draws toward the citizen as journalists.

    See my question about “citizen doctors”?

    scott e: i think the founding fathers and mothers were right.

    About?

  50. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:24 pm  (Quote)

    I see OARPA.NET finally went live.

  51. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:30 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I never read Breitbart while he was alive, but the stuff his organization puts out now is crap.

    It’s also advertiser and subscription supported. In other words a commercial enterprise….just like the mainstream media.

    That some people may work for free as “citizen journalists” says more about them than anything else.

  52. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 2:38 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: I agree fully. I would add, however, that there is no imperative that qualified journalists have to work for a newspaper, magazine, or broadcaster.

    Absolutely. As you note the economic barriers to widespread (mainstream?) distribution have changed completely.

    As far as the old media are concerned they can’t figure out which was is up right at the moment. The print folks know they are doomed.

    Broadcasting will move from the airwaves to the internet because the spectrum is to valuable for reruns of “I Love Lucy” and your local news.

    As far as your concern about your skills are concerned I think it is good to remember that “objectivity” is a myth. None of us are and never will be. The challenge for anyone, you or a reporter at The New York Times, is to be as accurate and, most important, fair in what you report.

    That’s where Fox and others fail.

  53. Dave says:
    May 3, 2015 at 3:03 pm  (Quote)

    Breitbart had quite a talent for making up lies and then getting the MSM to print them as if they had some merit. And somehow, after each lie had been debunked, the MSM never got around to giving that the same emphasis they’d given the lie.

    Nobody remaining at breitbart.com has the tiniest bit of this talent. They make up lies, the MSM ignores them, they whine about how unfair it is. Without Breitbart, they’re just another wingnut echo chamber.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I never read Breitbart while he was alive, but the stuff his organization puts out now is crap.

  54. Dave says:
    May 3, 2015 at 9:53 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Ben Carson is running for President, even though he’s not sure there will be an election.

  55. CarlOrcas says:
    May 3, 2015 at 11:55 pm  (Quote)

    CarlOrcas: As far as your concern about your skills are concerned I think it is good to remember that “objectivity” is a myth. None of us are and never will be. The challenge for anyone, you or a reporter at The New York Times, is to be as accurate and, most important, fair in what you report.

    Just to clarify for Doc and everyone else: I think Doc does excellent “journalism”. He always strives to be fair and accurate and when he makes a mistake or the story changes he is quick to acknowledge and correct it.

    Many….too many…..in the mainstream media could learn much from Doc.

  56. The Magic M says:
    May 4, 2015 at 4:43 am  (Quote)

    Dave: Dr. Ben Carson is running for President, even though he’s not sure there will be an election.

    His campaign slogans:

    “Vote for me while you still can.”
    “The black guy not born in Kenya.”
    “I’m not a doctor but I’d like to play one in the Oval Office.”
    “The next President. It’s science!”

  57. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 4, 2015 at 8:41 am  (Quote)

    Comment at Orly Taitz:

    “All the evidence points to Ebola being a mutation of HIV caused by the mixing of sperm and feces. So much money is being made on the life style that causes it that it may kill us all before they stop the behavior that causes it.

    –Rich”

  58. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 4, 2015 at 8:52 am  (Quote)

    Thanks. One thing I perhaps put more emphasis on than traditional media is the “historical record.” It seems to me that once a story is no longer new, it gets forgotten by the media. I sometimes update articles that are several years old.

    CarlOrcas: He always strives to be fair and accurate and when he makes a mistake or the story changes he is quick to acknowledge and correct it.

  59. Rickey says:
    May 4, 2015 at 11:06 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thanks. One thing I perhaps put more emphasis on than traditional media is the “historical record.” It seems to me that once a story is no longer new, it gets forgotten by the media. I sometimes update articles that are several years old.

    That drives me crazy sometimes. News organizations love to report on arrests, but they often fail to follow up and report on the disposition of an arrest, particularly if the disposition is a dropping of the charges.

    And then there is Fox News, which ran countless stories about the Benghazi “scandal” but barely mentioned it when the House Intelligence Committee cleared the Administration of any wrongdoing.

  60. CarlOrcas says:
    May 4, 2015 at 11:24 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thanks. One thing I perhaps put more emphasis on than traditional media is the “historical record.” It seems to me that once a story is no longer new, it gets forgotten by the media. I sometimes update articles that are several years old.

    You are absolutely right and, as Rickey notes in the next message, it is maddening.

    Following up on yesterday’s story isn’t nearly as much fun as chasing today’s fire!

  61. Arthur says:
    May 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm  (Quote)

    An article at the conservative Daily Caller website has aroused the ire of birthers for dismissing Vattel and for mocking their claims that Rubio and Cruz are not natural born citizens.

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/03/birthers-are-going-to-have-a-field-day-with-the-2016-republican-primary-season/

  62. Rickey says:
    May 4, 2015 at 3:56 pm  (Quote)

    It looks like KKKlayman’s day arguing Arpraio’s immigration appeal didn’t go well for him.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/04/us-usa-immigration-court-idUSKBN0NP1IX20150504

  63. RanTalbott says:
    May 4, 2015 at 3:56 pm  (Quote)

    And the birthers are, indeed, having “a field day”.

    Unfortunately, it appears that they’re all being driven there on the short bus…

  64. Rickey says:
    May 4, 2015 at 4:00 pm  (Quote)

    Arthur:
    An article at the conservative Daily Caller website has aroused the ire of birthers fordismissing Vattel and for mocking their claims that Rubio and Cruz are not natural born citizens.

    It’s not a bad article, except that he used the post-Constitution translation of Vattel’s book rather than the one which was in circulation when the Constitution was ratified. I sent him an e-mail.

  65. Rickey says:
    May 4, 2015 at 4:07 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Comment at Orly Taitz:

    “All the evidence points to Ebola being a mutation of HIV caused by the mixing of sperm and feces. So much money is being made on the life style that causes it that it may kill us all before they stop the behavior that causes it.

    –Rich”

    That’s a stunning display of ignorance. I’m almost embarrassed to have the same first name as that person.

  66. Dave says:
    May 4, 2015 at 8:52 pm  (Quote)

    Climate change denialist propaganda mill Heartland Institute sent a contigent to the Vatican to publicly whine about how the world, and the Pope, doesn’t take them seriously.

    I have a suggestion. If you want to be taken seriously, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to have one of your headliners be birther and all-around crackpot Christopher Monckton.

    (h/t Ars Technica: The inadvertent hilarity of the Heartland Institute vs. Pope Francis)

  67. Dave B. says:
    May 4, 2015 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    I like procon.org, but I’d never seen this before:
    http://2012election.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=004760
    Not perfectly accurate, but not a bad resource.

  68. Punchmaster via Mobile says:
    May 5, 2015 at 8:13 am  (Quote)

    Looks like BSE is cruising for another spanking. He’s gone whole hog with the “any conspiracy in a storm!” again. Its amusing to watch, when the admin comes down on him.

  69. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 5, 2015 at 11:34 am  (Quote)

    I left a couple of comments, and then Charles Mountain showed up and sicked the gerbils on me.

    Arthur: An article at the conservative Daily Caller website has aroused the ire of birthers for dismissing Vattel and for mocking their claims that Rubio and Cruz are not natural born citizens.

  70. Rickey says:
    May 5, 2015 at 6:20 pm  (Quote)

    The supposed birth certificate for the daughter of Prince William and Kate Middleton has been released.

    No raised seal.
    No signature of a doctor.
    No race of the parents.

    Clearly an amateurish forgery.

    https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/status/595586840029167616/photo/1

  71. RanTalbott says:
    May 5, 2015 at 6:44 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Clearly an amateurish forgery.

    How convenient: it’ll make it easy form them to disavow it when they run her for President in 2052.

    Of course, by then the Illuminati will have gotten the NBC requirement eliminated, so it won’t really matter.

  72. donna says:
    May 5, 2015 at 9:57 pm  (Quote)

    from the FEC website:

    #153 STRUNK, CHRISTOPHER EARL of the NBC party

    #48 CAESAR, PRESIDENT EMPEROR Democratic Party

    to date, 305 people have filed paperwork for the 2016 presidential election

    http://www.fec.gov/press/resources/2016presidential_form2pty.shtml#search=2016%20PRESIDENTIAL%20CANDIDATES

  73. Keith says:
    May 5, 2015 at 10:35 pm  (Quote)

    Somebody has lost all sense of proportion…

    Miles Reed on Twitter

  74. RanTalbott says:
    May 5, 2015 at 10:48 pm  (Quote)

    Keith: Miles Reed on Twitter

    😆
    He missed a key point, though: since, as we all know, at least 93% of adult Texans are always carrying, they’ll need personnel with combat-grade body armor and belt-fed .50-cals to keep them inside.

  75. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 6, 2015 at 4:00 am  (Quote)

    donna: #48 CAESAR, PRESIDENT EMPEROR Democratic Party

    ZOMG Obama is running for a third term? 😉

  76. Dave B. says:
    May 6, 2015 at 4:46 pm  (Quote)

    Wagging a finger at Fox over at the US News and World Report:
    http://usnewsdaily.net/2015/05/06/fox-news-birther-hypocrisy-ted-cruz-vs-obama/

  77. RanTalbott says:
    May 6, 2015 at 10:26 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.: Wagging a finger at Fox

    Pretty lame, since Faux saw early on that birferism was a loser, and has carefully avoided getting itself associated with its loons. Much to the loons’ distress, as evidenced by the angry chattering of the gerbils.

  80. Jim says:
    May 7, 2015 at 4:16 pm  (Quote)

    Man Dave, you beat me to it.

    STOP THE PRESSES! HOLD THE HEADLINES! FRESH BIRTHERS!!!

  81. Dave B. says:
    May 7, 2015 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    And don’t they seem…familiar?

    Jim:
    Man Dave, you beat me to it.

    STOP THE PRESSES!HOLD THE HEADLINES!FRESH BIRTHERS!!!

  82. Dave B. says:
    May 7, 2015 at 4:29 pm  (Quote)

    Hey Doc, if you want to start up a putinconspiracy.org, the domain’s available and there’s no expiration date on that guy.

  83. Keith says:
    May 7, 2015 at 11:25 pm  (Quote)

    RanTalbott:
    He missed a key point, though: since, as we all know, at least 93% of adult Texans are always carrying, they’ll need personnel with combat-grade body armor and belt-fed .50-cals to keep them inside.

    I thought Wal-marts in Texas had all you can eat BBQ cafe’s inside.

  84. Benji Franklin says:
    May 7, 2015 at 11:50 pm  (Quote)

    RanTalbott: And the birthers are, indeed, having “a field day”.

    No thanks to you! You certainly rule the waives at WND with comments like the ones you left in the wake of Diana West’s blah there on 01/06/2015.

    “… the Sheriff’s office? Arpaio has repeatedly said that it’s not involved in Zullo’s investigation. When Orly Taitz asked the Maricopa County prosecutor’s office for access to the CCP’s evidence, she was told that there is no evidence logged in, because there is no open case.”

    And your analogy supreme on that day, which I laugh at daily still. You wrote, perfectly characterizing the vacuous nature of their ‘investigation’:

    “Contacting the MCSO about the CCP’s “investigation” would be like calling Dade County to report technical errors you spotted on “CSI:Miami”.”

    I’m laughing again! Thanks!

  85. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 8, 2015 at 4:03 am  (Quote)

    Benji Franklin: “Contacting the MCSO about the CCP’s “investigation” would be like calling Dade County to report technical errors you spotted on “CSI:Miami”.”

    I’m still trying to call the FBI about all the errors on “Fringe” but they refuse to provide a toll-free international number. They also won’t arrest the people on My Blacklist (hint: Orly is #104). THIS MUST NOT STAND!

  86. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 8, 2015 at 9:01 am  (Quote)

    [07-May-2015 Washington, DC] OARPA researchers announced the discovery of a name, photo, email address and Facebook page for the notorious Gerbil Report™ commenter, Barry Soetoro, ESQ. The OARPA spokesperson, speaking under promise of anonymity, said he suspected that the name was fictitious. While not readily apparent, Google Images reported that the photo looked similar to one of Al Gore.

    http://www.oarpa.net/2015/05/07-may-2015-press-release/

  87. Reality Check says:
    May 8, 2015 at 10:15 am  (Quote)

    Very outstanding undercover research and sleuthing!

    Dr. Conspiracy: [07-May-2015 Washington, DC] OARPA researchers announced the discovery of a name, photo, email address and Facebook page for the notorious Gerbil Report™ commenter, Barry Soetoro, ESQ.

  88. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 8, 2015 at 11:01 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Google Images reported that the photo looked similar to one of Al Gore

    According to birfer standards, that proves BSE is Al Gore or is a close relative (son?).

    Anagram:
    Al Gore is bisexual = a luxe gerbil oasis

  89. Crustacean says:
    May 8, 2015 at 12:57 pm  (Quote)

    Note to self: do not, under any circumstance, challenge Magic M to a game of Scrabble.

    The Magic M (not logged in): Anagram:
    Al Gore is bisexual = a luxe gerbil oasis

  90. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 8, 2015 at 1:02 pm  (Quote)

    Thanks, Randy.

    Reality Check: Very outstanding undercover research and sleuthing!

  91. Crustacean says:
    May 8, 2015 at 1:13 pm  (Quote)

    I’m no OARPA scientist, but based on my analysis of that photo, there are unmistakable signs of Photoshop tampering around the left hemisphere of the brain.

    Dr. Conspiracy: The OARPA spokesperson, speaking under promise of anonymity, said he suspected that the name was fictitious. While not readily apparent, Google Images reported that the photo looked similar to one of Al Gore.

  92. Reality Check says:
    May 8, 2015 at 2:07 pm  (Quote)

    You’re welcome. 😉

    Dr. Conspiracy: Thanks, Randy.

  93. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:
    May 8, 2015 at 3:32 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thanks, Randy.

    I thought it was “Richard”?

  94. Jim says:
    May 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm  (Quote)

    Shhhhhh….we’re keeping the birthers off-balance. 😀

  95. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm  (Quote)

    That’s just the cover story.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: I thought it was “Richard”?

  96. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 8, 2015 at 5:44 pm  (Quote)

    They are running anti-Mike Huckabee ads on TV in Greenville, SC.

  97. Crustacean says:
    May 8, 2015 at 6:05 pm  (Quote)

    Finally, a birther sums up their point of view as succinctly as could be:

    “Viva hate”
    ~Ted_Underhill

  98. James M says:
    May 8, 2015 at 9:24 pm  (Quote)

    Today has been great fun. Seeing only the word “conservative” in the headlines has led a lot of American RWNJs to suddenly become experts on UK politics. They find themselves celebrating the victory of a governing party, most of whose policies are so far to the “left” that they would be screaming for blood if any American GOP politician were to even suggest them. Where to begin? They wouldn’t agree with *anything* in the Tories’ platform! Public Health? Drug Policy? Criminal Justice? Public Housing and Welfare? Abortion (UK “conservatives” pushed for a 24 week limit — can you imagine getting anywhere in the GOP with that?!) Where the American GOP and the UK Tories agree, tend to be areas where the GOP and the Democrats agree as well.
    Oh, and there’s a persistent headline suggestion that the UK is “divided” which resonates with all the secessionists in Texas — even though the depth of the “division” in the UK is greatly exaggerated.

    Been a very fun day, today. Poor, poor RWNJs, yet again if they understood what they were celebrating, they would be embarrassed.

  99. y_p_w says:
    May 9, 2015 at 12:48 pm  (Quote)

    In other birth certificate related news, an American couple is now in Mexico trying to get their child born through a surrogate mother home. The one thing stopping them right now is that the governor of Tabasco state has placed a morotorium on the issuance of birth certificates for surrogate births. The State Dept and their member of Congress are trying to resolve this. Without the birth certificate, they generally won’t be able to obtain a Consular a Report of Birth Abroad and a US passport.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/americas/mexico-us-couple-surrogacy-snafu/

  100. y_p_w says:
    May 9, 2015 at 12:51 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    The supposed birth certificate for the daughter of Prince William and Kate Middleton has been released.

    No raised seal.
    No signature of a doctor.
    No race of the parents.

    Clearly an amateurish forgery.

    https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/status/595586840029167616/photo/1

    Apparent some jurisdictions in the US still fill out certified copies completely by hand. I found at least one that’s even on green basketweave paper.

  101. Dave B. says:
    May 9, 2015 at 1:24 pm  (Quote)

    I don’t see why they couldn’t apply for a passport using secondary evidence, or apply for a certificate of identity for travel to the United States to apply for admission and take it from there.

    y_p_w:
    In other birth certificate related news, an American couple is now in Mexico trying to get their child born through a surrogate mother home.The one thing stopping them right now is that the governor of Tabasco state has placed a morotorium on the issuance of birth certificates for surrogate births.The State Dept and their member of Congress are trying to resolve this.Without the birth certificate, they generally won’t be able to obtain a Consular a Report of Birth Abroad and a US passport.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/americas/mexico-us-couple-surrogacy-snafu/

  102. Donna LS - 1 says:
    May 9, 2015 at 2:29 pm  (Quote)

    Have any of you checked with Andy Martin and the ‘investigative work’ he’s been doing on Obama for years?? – – Martin was back in HI mid-April – – “Obama author/investigator Andy Martin is in Hawai’i continuing his research into President Barack Obama’s origins and circle of friends, with new information straight from the files of the Honolulu Police Department.” – – “Andy says he is now confident enough of his theory (not yet proven fact) that Obama is the biological child of Frank Marshall Davis to start using the name “Barack Hussein Obama-Davis” for the president.”

  103. y_p_w says:
    May 9, 2015 at 4:49 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    I don’t see why they couldn’t apply for a passport using secondary evidence, or apply for a certificate of identity for travel to the United States to apply for admission and take it from there.

    How much secondary evidence can there be for a kid less than a month old? I thought that meant stuff like baptismal records and hospital records. I was thinking maybe the State Dept would issue a temporary travel document and then they could apply for a Certficate of Citizenship in the US.

    However, the State Dept has standard procedures for surrogate births, and I’m guessing they want to get the birth certificate preferrably, then if not, determine how they might break with procedure.

  104. y_p_w says:
    May 9, 2015 at 6:57 pm  (Quote)

    y_p_w:
    However, the State Dept has standard procedures for surrogate births, and I’m guessing they want to get the birth certificate preferrably, then if not, determine how they might break with procedure.

    They got the birth certificate. Probably before I even read about it.

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/05/08/mexico-surrogate-christy-hasseb-grayson-amireh-birth-certificate-tabasco/

  105. Dave B. says:
    May 9, 2015 at 8:27 pm  (Quote)

    Well, there would be records of the medical procedures and affidavits from the parents, and possibly physical evidence to help establish paternity. What kind of surrogate procedure was used makes a difference, too. The main potential problem I see arises from whatever rights the surrogate parent might have to withhold consent to a passport application. It’s certainly not something I know a whole lot about.
    The temporary travel document would be the certificate of identity I referred to.

    y_p_w: How much secondary evidence can there be for a kid less than a month old?I thought that meant stuff like baptismal records and hospital records.I was thinking maybe the State Dept would issue a temporary travel document and then they could apply for a Certficate of Citizenship in the US.

    However, the State Dept has standard procedures for surrogate births, and I’m guessing they want to get the birth certificate preferrably, then if not, determine how they might break with procedure.

  106. Nancy R Owens says:
    May 9, 2015 at 9:13 pm  (Quote)

    Testing. One. Two. Three. Testing.

    Hmm….it would appear as though am……unblocked by the Doc.

    [Moved to the open thread. Doc]

  107. Rickey says:
    May 9, 2015 at 10:17 pm  (Quote)

    Donna LS - 1:
    Have any of you checked with Andy Martin and the ‘investigative work’ he’s been doing on Obama for years??– – Martin was back in HI mid-April – – “Obama author/investigator Andy Martin is in Hawai’i continuing his research into President Barack Obama’s origins and circle of friends, with new information straight from the files of the Honolulu Police Department.” – – “Andy says he is now confident enough of his theory (not yet proven fact) that Obama is the biological child of Frank Marshall Davis to start using the name “Barack Hussein Obama-Davis” for the president.”

    Andy Martin is an anti-semite and all-around liar and terrible person.

    Besides, his “investigation” turned up nothing that we didn’t already know. Nothing to see there.

  108. Donna LS - 1 says:
    May 9, 2015 at 10:44 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey – I have not seen/read any proof that Andy Martin is an ‘all-around liar’ – – copying part of one of Andy’s last articles re: ‘whatever his name is’ Obama – – “(COC-Honolulu, HI) (April 14, 2015) In my eleventh year (2004 – 2015) of investigating Barack Obama-Davis (“O-D”) this has to be one of the funnier stories you will read about our enduring relationship. I went undercover in Honolulu seeking to look at the beachfront home where O-D and his BFF (best friend forever) Bobby Titcomb continue to smoke dope on Obama’s annual visits to Hawai’i. And, in an amusing twist, while I was investigating Bobby Titcomb, he was investigating me and confronted me on the beachfront.” https://contrariancommentary.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/andy-martin-conducts-an-undercover-investigation-of-president-barack-obama-davis-best-friend-and-the-tables-are-turned-as-the-bff-is-shadowing-andy/

  109. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 9, 2015 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    The article is absurd. Martin says that there is “strong circumstantial evidence” based on the face that somebody claimed so, but that there is no actual evidence. Martin debunks himself.

    Donna LS - 1: copying part of one of Andy’s last articles re: ‘whatever his name is’ Obama

  110. y_p_w says:
    May 9, 2015 at 11:04 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    Well, there would be records of the medical procedures and affidavits from the parents, and possibly physical evidence to help establish paternity.What kind of surrogate procedure was used makes a difference, too.The main potential problem I see arises from whatever rights the surrogate parent might have to withhold consent to a passport application.It’s certainly not something I know a whole lot about.
    The temporary travel document would be the certificate of identity I referred to.

    All that stuff is already required. In the case of a surrogacy, they also request DNA evidence. It’s a lot of stuff to produce, and I’m thinking that they probably came prepared with all of that stuff except what came from the Mexican authorities.

    http://mexico.usembassy.gov/eng/eacs_report_birth_abroad.html

    Step 3: Gather documents, make photocopies. On the day of your appointment, you must present an original and one photocopy of all pages for each of the following:

    * Child’s original Mexican birth certificate issued by the civil registry. You should request the “book true copy” (“copia fiel del libro”) version. We do not accept short-form/extract versions (“extractos”) nor “interesado” copies.

    * Copy of the Mexican Secretary of Health birth certificate (often called hospital birth certificate, “certificado de alumbramiento,” or “nacido vivo”). This document is given to the mother in the hospital soon after the child’s birth, and contains the baby’s footprint and mother’s fingerprint. If you handed the original document into the Mexican civil registry without keeping a copy, you may request a true copy from the civil registry’s files.

    * Proof of citizenship for the U.S. citizen parent(s), such as an original U.S. birth certificate, passport, CRBA, naturalization certificate, or certificate of citizenship.
    Proof of identity for each parent, such as valid original passport, government-issued driver license, state ID, or voter registration card.

    * Pregnancy and birth records: dated ultrasounds containing name of mother, laboratory test results, doctor/ultrasound/hospital receipts, pictures of the mother pregnant, pictures of mother and baby immediately following the birth and during the hospital stay. Baby and mother’s hospital identification bracelets, crib card, discharge orders, paid hospital bill.

    * Proof of relationship between parents: For example, time-stamped photos of the couple together before, during, and after the pregnancy, photos of the U.S. citizen parent with the newborn baby, Western Union money transfer receipts, birthday cards, email printouts, lease agreements, bank statements, home utility bills, or IRS tax declaration documents showing shared address, etc. Proof the couple was together at time of conception, i.e. passport with entry and exit stamps, Mexican or U.S. temporary or legal residency documents, etc.

    * Proof of physical presence in the United States: Documents showing when the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States, regardless of immigration status. Valid time includes when undocumented, as a Legal Permanent Resident, or U.S. citizen. All physical presence must have occurred prior to the birth of the child. Examples of documents to bring include vaccination records, baptismal certificate, military discharge papers, elementary and middle school report cards, high school and college transcripts and diplomas, W2s (from employment held while in the United States), Social Security statement, etc. More information about minimum physical presence requirements may be found here.

    I’m guessing there might be a little bit of leeway on a lot of the documentation, such as the case of a home birth. However, I would think the birth certificate is the key document to establish the date of birth and perhaps document who the US citizen parent is.

  111. Dave B. says:
    May 9, 2015 at 11:27 pm  (Quote)

    Thanks, that has increased my meager level of information by several orders of magnitude.

    y_p_w: All that stuff is already required.In the case of a surrogacy, they also request DNA evidence.It’s a lot of stuff to produce, and I’m thinking that they probably came prepared with all of that stuff except what came from the Mexican authorities.

    I’m guessing there might be a little bit of leeway on a lot of the documentation, such as the case of a home birth.However, I would think the birth certificate is the key document to establish the date of birth and perhaps document who the US citizen parent is.

  112. Dave B. says:
    May 9, 2015 at 11:49 pm  (Quote)

    Doc, did you catch David Farrar’s reply to you over at the PolitickerNJ? The last paragraph is a killer:
    “While most of the 1787 Constitutional Convention delegates may not have fully understood what Jay’s new legal term of art — derived from the nomenclature of English common law — might have meant in its fullest sense; John Jay, himself, was held in such high esteem as a leading legal expert in international law; being the President of the Continental Congress from 1778-1779; serving as minister to Spain, and later his appointment by G. Washington as the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, from 1789 to 1795; all it would have taken for that body to adopt this new legal term of art without discussion was a note from Jay to Washington, and from Washington to the delegates — which is exactly what happened.”

  113. Lupin says:
    May 10, 2015 at 2:12 am  (Quote)

    Donna LS - 1: “Andy says he is now confident enough of his theory (not yet proven fact) that Obama is the biological child of Frank Marshall Davis to start using the name “Barack Hussein Obama-Davis” for the president.”

    What a coincidence! I had been using “Andy Davis-Goatf*cker” myself.

  114. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 10, 2015 at 6:52 am  (Quote)

    Dave B.: The last paragraph is a killer:

    So the birther reply to my constant question “Were the Founders pranksters who told no-one about their secret redefinition of ‘natural born’?” is “yes”? Whodathunk!

  115. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 10, 2015 at 6:54 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Martin says that there is “strong circumstantial evidence” based on the face that somebody claimed so, but that there is no actual evidence.

    As usual, they are using “magic” words but don’t know what they mean (similar: prima facie evidence).

  116. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 10, 2015 at 6:57 am  (Quote)

    Donna LS - 1: “Andy says he is now confident enough of his theory (not yet proven fact) that Obama is the biological child of Frank Marshall Davis

    Who cares? Can’t impeach the Prez on who his father was. Can’t glean propaganda value as he isn’t running again (or is he? ;)).

  117. Punchmaster via Mobile says:
    May 10, 2015 at 8:53 am  (Quote)

    BR went and punked themselves, by posting a “news” article from a satire site. Lol, so desperate!

  118. Dave B. says:
    May 10, 2015 at 10:50 am  (Quote)

    Yes, apparently they didn’t even bother to tell each other.

    The Magic M (not logged in): So the birther reply to my constant question “Were the Founders pranksters who told no-one about their secret redefinition of ‘natural born’?” is “yes”? Whodathunk!

  119. y_p_w says:
    May 10, 2015 at 12:27 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    Thanks, that has increased my meager level of information by several orders of magnitude.

    After seeing all that, I’m starting to think that jus soli birthright citizenship makes for a lot less hassle than trying to document US citizenship by obtaining a CRBA. I’m lousy at keeping paperwork, and if I had to assemble all that while overseas I would freak out.

  120. Rickey says:
    May 10, 2015 at 12:47 pm  (Quote)

    Donna LS - 1:
    Rickey – I have not seen/read any proof that Andy Martin is an ‘all-around liar’ – – copying part of one of Andy’s last articles re: ‘whatever his name is’ Obama – – “(COC-Honolulu, HI) (April 14, 2015) In my eleventh year (2004 – 2015) of investigating Barack Obama-Davis (“O-D”) this has to be one of the funnier stories you will read about our enduring relationship. I went undercover in Honolulu seeking to look at the beachfront home where O-D and his BFF (best friend forever) Bobby Titcomb continue to smoke dope on Obama’s annual visits to Hawai’i. And, in an amusing twist, while I was investigating Bobby Titcomb, he was investigating me and confronted me on the beachfront.”https://contrariancommentary.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/andy-martin-conducts-an-undercover-investigation-of-president-barack-obama-davis-best-friend-and-the-tables-are-turned-as-the-bff-is-shadowing-andy/

    You obviously need to do more research on Andy Martin. Among other things, he has claimed that Obama is a Muslim who was educated at a madrassa, and that he knows a radical Muslim named Khalid al-Mansour. Martin even claimed that Obama was keeping his grandmother a prisoner in her own home (she actually was dying of cancer).

    In a Federal Court filing Martin called a judge “a crooked, slimy Jew, who has a history of lying and thieving common to members of his race.”

    The only thing proven by the article which you cited is that Martin has no evidence to substantiate any of his claims. His is a textbook case of character assassination. He presents rumors as fact, and then covers himself by conceding that he can’t prove any of it. It would be like me saying “I have reason to believe that Andy Martin is a child molester. I can’t prove it yet, but he hasn’t denied it.”

  121. scott e says:
    May 10, 2015 at 1:45 pm  (Quote)

    RanTalbott:
    Am I the only one who’s stopped getting “New reply” notification emails? I haven’t seen any since the 24th. I’ve even done a manual update of my subscriptions to make sure I hadn’t accidentally turned something off.

    you can have mine…. doc why do you do this open thread business ?

  122. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 10, 2015 at 7:38 pm  (Quote)

    A commenter here, and I do not remember who, suggested that I create an “occasional open thread” for the purpose of discussing things outside the scope of the current articles. There have been 125 open threads since 2009.

    It has become a venerable tradition.

    I find that it helps keep the discussion attached to particular articles on those articles, rather than allowing them to be hijacked inadvertently, or intentionally. Thread hijacking still happens sometimes, and for some less substantive articles, it doesn’t matter. One reason I want to keep the comments on topic is to make the blog more useful for future study of the birther movement.

    scott e: doc why do you do this open thread business ?

  123. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm  (Quote)

    Bob Gard.

    The Magic M (not logged in): Whodathunk!

  124. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 10, 2015 at 7:44 pm  (Quote)

    I have had no other complaints about not getting notifications, and no changes have been made. I see that you are signed up for email notifications to 17 articles.

    Spam filter?

    RanTalbott: Am I the only one who’s stopped getting “New reply” notification emails?

  125. Dave B. says:
    May 11, 2015 at 11:07 am  (Quote)

    Notable birther dumbassery, arguing that since Hawaii became a state in 1959, “Ann Dunham was only US Citizen for 2 years prior to Barack’s birth”:
    http://kbrocking.com/2012/10/27/fact-check-obama-would-not-be-considered-natural-us-born-if-he-was-discovered-to-be-born-in-kenya/#comments

  126. donna says:
    May 11, 2015 at 11:23 am  (Quote)

    Judge Hanen’s “supplemental order” signed 5/8/2015

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Judge-Hanen-May-8-2015-Supplemental-order.pdf

    Even as the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals considers whether to grant a stay, Judge Hanen continues to move the case along down in Brownsville. The latest order, issued today, offers supplemental authority for its previous denial of a stay.

    http://joshblackman.com/blog/2015/05/08/judge-hanen-issues-supplemental-order-on-abdication/

  127. scott e says:
    May 11, 2015 at 12:07 pm  (Quote)

    CarlOrcas: Do you go to a “citizen doctor”?

    i don’t know what she is, do you mean does she have a birth certificate ?

    or do you mean medicine is on par with journalism. that same professionality ?

    interesting. how about politicians. these days a lot of them are doctors and lawyers it seems.

  128. scott e says:
    May 11, 2015 at 12:35 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A commenter here, and I do not remember who, suggested that I create an “occasional open thread” for the purpose of discussing things outside the scope of the current articles. There have been 125 open threads since 2009.

    It has become a venerable tradition.

    I find that it helps keep the discussion attached to particular articles on those articles, rather than allowing them to be hijacked inadvertently, or intentionally. Thread hijacking still happens sometimes, and for some less substantive articles, it doesn’t matter. One reason I want to keep the comments on topic is to make the blog more useful for future study of the birther movement.

    that’s what i was getting at: thread hijacking… what exactly is that ?
    did i do that ?
    i like venerable traditions.

  129. Crustacean says:
    May 11, 2015 at 1:37 pm  (Quote)

    Don’t forget his middle name: Vexatious Litigant

    With “expert investigative journalists” like Andy Vexatious Litigant Davis-Goatf*cker, the birther movement doesn’t even need a village idiot.

    Lupin: What a coincidence! I had been using “Andy Davis-Goatf*cker” myself.

  130. Rickey says:
    May 11, 2015 at 1:56 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: you can have mine…. doc why do you do this open thread business ?

    In addition to what Doc says, if any blogger comes across an item of interest which does not fit with one of the active threads, it can be posted in the open thread. If it is sufficiently interesting, Doc will then start a new thread about that item

    Every blog I frequent has an open thread, although it may go by a different name. One blog calls it the “After Hours Lounge,” where just about any subject can be discussed.

  131. CarlOrcas says:
    May 11, 2015 at 3:23 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i don’t know what she is, do you mean does she have a birth certificate ?

    or do you mean medicine is on par with journalism. that same professionality ?

    What I meant is…..what level of experience and expertise do you expect from people who you depend on to make deicsions about your world, your country…..your life?

    If you find “citizen journalists” preferable to experienced journalists I just wondered if you applied the same thinking to your personal health.

    As far as politicians coming from the ranks of the educated and well paid that’s nothing new. Most of the founding fathers (no ladies allowed) were wealthy….among the wealthiest in the colonies.

  132. RanTalbott says:
    May 11, 2015 at 7:11 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Spam filter?

    Could be, although it _appears_ that gmail would’ve just tagged them instead of swallowing them: about once a year, there’s a posted reply that references some “viral” birfoon conspiracy theory link, and gmail lets it through with a “looks like spam” warning on it.

    Weirdly, a day or two after I posted that, they all started coming in again. Which I _hope_ is just a remarkable coincidence: it’d be more than a little scary if not 😉

  133. Rickey says:
    May 11, 2015 at 10:40 pm  (Quote)

    scott e: i don’t know

    or do you mean medicine is on par with journalism. that same professionality ?

    The problem with “citizen journalists” is that they have no accountability. They can make stuff up or plagiarize and there are no repercussions. Professional journalists sometimes make stuff up, but when they are caught they pay a price.

    interesting. how about politicians. these days a lot of them are doctors and lawyers it seems.

    25 U.S. Presidents were lawyers, so there is nothing new about that. No medical doctor has ever become president. William Henry Harrison went to medical school for a year, but he withdrew when his father died.

  134. scott e says:
    May 12, 2015 at 9:56 am  (Quote)

    i love that you and oryr are yin and yang. let me ask you doc, did you think when you started this that it would all still be going years later ??

    that in itself is amasing to me.

    [Moved to the open thread. Doc.]

  135. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 12, 2015 at 10:03 am  (Quote)

    No.

    scott e: did you think when you started this that it would all still be going years later ??

  136. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 12, 2015 at 10:07 am  (Quote)

    One of the best arguments I could make for the Open Thread is : Birther Report.

    I’ve thought about the different models of Internet publishing. The Fogbow is a forum, essentially a discussion community. Forums, while they usually have a topical focus, are user driven. When I started OCT, I really considered it a personal publishing enterprise, and I didn’t expect it to run long, and I didn’t expect a discussion community to evolve. I had to evolve the blog format in the direction of a forum: I created an open thread, I decided not to nest comments, I support an RSS comment feed, I have email notifications, and I installed a recent comment widget in the sidebar.

    Rickey: Every blog I frequent has an open thread, although it may go by a different name.

  137. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    May 12, 2015 at 10:18 am  (Quote)

    I would tend not to blame Gmail.

    RanTalbott: Could be, although it _appears_ that gmail would’ve just tagged them instead of swallowing them:

  138. Dave B. says:
    May 12, 2015 at 11:12 am  (Quote)

    Comment by one “CowboyUpAmerica,” over at the Right Side News:
    “This morning, J.b. Williams
    was contacted by a 60 year old French Lawyer who graduated from the top
    law school in France (linked below) and “did the translation” of Vattel
    from French to English, who has now confirmed that JB has published the
    correct interpretation of NBC according to Vattel, and he has agreed to
    work with us at NALC (North American Law Center) in the future as a
    French Legal Scholar on International Law. – You are the first to know,
    because you are here… ”
    http://www.rightsidenews.com/2015032635633/us/politics/the-end-of-the-american-presidency.html#comment-1931516656
    The NALC’s lead counsel on constitutional law being, of course, one Stephen Pidgeon.

  139. donna says:
    May 12, 2015 at 11:43 am  (Quote)

    A recent poll from the University of California at Merced showed that 54 percent of Republicans believe that “deep down” Obama is a Muslim.

    The idea that Obama is Muslim, a thread of the “birther” conspiracy theory that Obama is not actually American, goes back to the 2008 presidential campaign, when some Obama critics presented him as “other,” if not explicitly foreign.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/2/25/8108005/obama-muslim-poll

  140. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    May 12, 2015 at 11:47 am  (Quote)

    I’ve more or less migrated from watching birtherism, to just general Right wing dumbassery. There’s a website called Right Wing Watch, which showcases right wing pundits, saying stupid stuff about gays, Obama or Muslims. In some cases, you’ll find someone who manages to do a three-for-one. Its also a good place to get the lowdown on Glenn Beck’s latest slide into madness. Its an invaluable tool, to show the saner conservatives in your personal life, the ugly side of who they’re considering voting for in the next Presidential election.

  141. Lupin says:
    May 12, 2015 at 12:00 pm  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    Comment by one “CowboyUpAmerica,” over at the Right Side News:
    “This morning, J.b. Williams
    was contacted by a 60 year old French Lawyer who graduated from the top
    law school in France (linked below) and “did the translation” of Vattel
    from French to English, who has now confirmed that JB has published the
    correct interpretation of NBC according to Vattel, and he has agreed to
    work with us at NALC (North American Law Center) in the future as a
    French Legal Scholar on International Law. – You are the first to know,
    because you are here… ”
    http://www.rightsidenews.com/2015032635633/us/politics/the-end-of-the-american-presidency.html#comment-1931516656
    The NALC’s lead counsel on constitutional law being, of course, one Stephen Pidgeon.

    Actually, that was me, but that email exchange took place a short while ago. What i did do is simple:

    (a) I shot down the notion of two parents citizens as simply and plainly wrong (and JBW agreed with that);

    (b) I did confirm that according to Vattel at that time and indeed in the Napoleonic Code of 1804, citizenship was indeed transferred by the father. ( I explained how that was later revised/updated by JBW didn’t seem to care much about that.)

    (c) I did point out that equating Vattel “naturels” with the US “natural-born citizen” was highly debatable since at no time did we have a third category of citizens between just naturels (or indigene) and naturalisés, but thst point seems to have fallen into a black hole.

  142. Dave B. says:
    May 12, 2015 at 12:45 pm  (Quote)

    I knew the description sounded like you. JBW may have abandoned the “two-citizen parent” nonsense, but he’s sticking with the idea that the “country of the fathers is therefore that of the children” applies to the United States in regard to natural-born citizenship, and disqualifies Obama, Cruz, Rubio and Jindal. Going even further, he says in that article,
    “Barack Obama’s Father was never a U.S. Citizen. Ted Cruz’s Father was never a U.S. citizen either, until he naturalized 35 years after Ted’s birth. Ted remained a legal citizen of Canada until he renounced his Canadian citizenship on May 14, 2014. Without any U.S. documents, Ted is now a man without a country, according to any authentic documentation. Is Ted Cruz just an “illegal alien” holding a U.S. Senate seat and running for President?”

    Lupin: Actually, that was me, but that email exchange took place a short while ago. What i did do is simple:

    (a) I shot down the notion of two parents citizens as simply and plainly wrong (and JBW agreed with that);

    (b) I did confirm that according to Vattel at that time and indeed in the Napoleonic Code of 1804, citizenship was indeed transferred by the father. ( I explained how that was later revised/updated by JBW didn’t seem to care much about that.)

    (c) I did point out that equating Vattel “naturels” with the US “natural-born citizen” was highly debatable since at no time did we have a third category of citizens between just naturels (or indigene) and naturalisés, but thst point seems to have fallen into a black hole.

  143. Rickey says:
    May 12, 2015 at 6:31 pm  (Quote)

    scott e:
    i love that you and oryr are yin and yang. let me ask you doc, did you think when you started this that it would all still be going years later ??

    that in itself is amasing to me.

    The only reason Doc is still doing it is because some birthers are still birthing.

    As the Fogbow notes, “Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.” The birther movement is dying out in large part because birther lies have not gone unchallenged. Birthers have yet to come up with a shred of credible evidence that Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States.

  144. Lupin says:
    May 13, 2015 at 1:37 am  (Quote)

    Dave B.:
    I knew the description sounded like you.JBW may have abandoned the “two-citizen parent” nonsense, but he’s sticking with the idea that the “country of the fathers is therefore that of the children” applies to the United States in regard to natural-born citizenship, and disqualifies Obama, Cruz, Rubio and Jindal.Going even further, he says in that article,
    “Barack Obama’s Father was never a U.S. Citizen. Ted Cruz’s Father was never a U.S. citizen either, until he naturalized 35 years after Ted’s birth. Ted remained a legal citizen of Canada until he renounced his Canadian citizenship on May 14, 2014. Without any U.S. documents, Ted is now a man without a country, according to any authentic documentation. Is Ted Cruz just an “illegal alien” holding a U.S. Senate seat and running for President?”

    I can’t argue with that because that is the way things were in 1800, so his interpretation is correct.

    Leaving aside the issue of Vattel’s relevance (which I’m not competent to discuss), there are still two facts worthy of consideration:

    1) This was very revised and updated to give mothers an equal weight in the process; and

    2) To birthers “nbc”are different from regular non-naturalized citizens (in effect a third class of citizenry) whereas Vattel considered there were only two classes, at birth and naturalized, and since Obama was not naturalized, even by Vattel’s conflicting standards, he would have been considered natural-born.

  145. Keith says:
    May 13, 2015 at 3:47 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: I can’t argue with that because that is the way things were in 1800, so his interpretation is correct.

    1800, 1900, or 2000, Ted Cruz is now, as far as anybody knows a ‘man without a country’.

    His birth certificate demonstrates that he was born a Canadian citizen, but he has renounced that citizenship. He has not demonstrated to anyone that he is, in fact, an American citizen.

    I know he claims that his mother was a U.S. citizen when he was born in Canada, but where is the Certificate of Foreign Birth?

    If Obama was suspect because his father was an African Socialist, why isn’t Cruz suspect because his father took up arms to fight for the Castro Communists in Cuba?

  146. Notorial Dissent says:
    May 13, 2015 at 8:28 am  (Quote)

    He’s a Republican???

    Keith: If Obama was suspect because his father was an African Socialist, why isn’t Cruz suspect because his father took up arms to fight for the Castro Communists in Cuba?

  147. The Magic M (not logged in) says:
    May 13, 2015 at 8:35 am  (Quote)

    Edit: ignore that, I misunderstood you.

  149. Keith says:
    May 13, 2015 at 3:13 pm  (Quote)

    The central hypothesis of “The OCT Theory of Wackadoodleness” has been confirmed:

    Scientists: Earth Endangered by New Strain of Fact-Resistant Humans

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