Internet blogger Miss Tickly has been pursuing the State of Hawaii, and has obtained a copy of the seal of the State Department of Health. She makes a big deal of the fact that it doesn’t look like the seal on Barack Obama’s Certification of Live Birth published by FactCheck.org, saying:
Due to these indisputable facts, the seal on Obama’s COLB is not the HDOH seal and Dr. Fukino does not have authority over the seal appearing on Obama’s COLB according to the description in the Title 11 rules AND the version disclosed in my records request. The seal seen on Obama’s COLB HAS NO LEGAL WEIGHT either online or as a physical copy.
I don’t have the vocabulary to describe this kind of thinking with any precision. It’s some kind of extreme literalism. If I had my choice between saying that “Miss Tickly misunderstands the law” and “every birth certificate in Hawaii is worthless” I would choose the first.
You see, Obama’s birth certificate seal is just like the others, for example this one from the Ron Polarik collection:
Department of Health Seal
Commenter NBC wrote:
Quote:
§321-9 Seal, rules and regulations. The department of health may adopt a seal and may adopt such rules and regulations as it may consider expedient for the conduct of its business. The department may amend or revise such rules and regulations from time to time.
Doc C, Miss Tickly’s back. It’s COLB related so it may interest you.
http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/unveiling-the-hdoh-seal/
I took a look at her article – it seems that she’s received an image of the Hawaii DOH seal (from the Hawaii DOH) and she believes that the small differences between the image she received and the seal on the Factcheck COLB image are a ‘doozy’ of a discovery (her word). I, too, hope Doc takes a look at this link – I don’t think very many people can follow Ms. Tickly down her abstruse rabbit hole of ur-logic and record keeping minutia without bleeding from the ears, but Doc’s one on them…
so, if i follow correctly, the usurper has hawaii’s health dept covering his tracks, but he’s nonetheless unable to procure a hawaiian birth certificate that can escape miss tickly’s forensics skills … ?
My understanding was that HDOH slipped up, providing Ms. Tickly with a smoking gun that proves the FactCheck COLB is a forgery, but I wouldn’t bet that my interpretation is correct – I’m not an expert on birther ur-logic…
And of course, comments are closed. Like Mario the bullshit coward.
Birthers are sick people.
yes, that’s miss tickly’s direct accusation: the hdoh slipped up. but her accusation exposes a hole in her narrative because it implies that the hdoh is somehow unable to create a foolproof facsimile of a document it is exclusively charged with issuing.
I used to play games of make believe when I was a child, but eventually grew out of them.
I don’t know what “miss tickly” has found.
Looking at page 6 on it describes is the physical dimension and the characteristics of the seal of HDOH and that there should be a black and will illustration of it for reference.
I’m guessing that she’s found another inconsequential anomaly that she will claim is incontrovertible proof of a conspiracy…
I’m just wondering if Miss Tickly’s ‘reseach’ and ‘theory’ will put Polarik’s nose out of joint.
PS Remember when Miss Tickly won the Bat-Shirt award?
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/10/batshirt-award/
Why do you think that the seal that the HDOH provided to you has to be the same as the one they affix to COLBs? Or that they have only 1 seal? Or that a seal created today has to be the same as one created in 2007? You are assuming much too much w/o any foundation.
Charo,
Doc can decide if this discussion is off topic and dump it into another thread, but it seems to me that interest in the subject makes it more likely for Doc to give it its own thread. Given that Miss Tickly decided to post (and make an ad hominem attack) and that no one here seems to have gone over the line or anywhere near it (in my opinion), why don’t you just let her defend the public statements she has made or jump in with your own defense of her theories?
Charo –
While I agree with your point that nearly all of the comments so far are unrelated to the particular post topic (oddly, the only one on topic was jtx – LOL!) – they have still been “birther” related for the most part and they also have followed pretty much as a direct reaction to other items posted.
Crazy Strunk posted first and his nonsensical post caused the replied that followed. As Strunk has filed a number of batty, birther-related lawsuits – his filings still fit in the overall context of the website
Later on, Twinx posted info with a link to a new theory in the birtherverse and then most of the comments focused on that. Often, it is such finds from commentators that lead to the next blog topic that Dr. C posts – so this too is typical and in line for the site and how the commentary often flows here. You know that as well as anyone.
The only thing that was completely out of line was a vulgar and completely unnecessary attack by Miss Tickly on Twinx, making references to his penis. That is completely uncalled for and I feel is a violation of the posting terms of this site.
I find it odd Charo that you singled out everyone else for mocking Miss Tickly, yet you were completely silent about that vulgar and completely inappropriate post she made….
Nice job, Miss Tickly.
On the Fogbow Suranis posted the following which he cross posted to “the Right Side” (sic)
What? Is something missing?
Also, the birther Danae @ Freerepublic recent posted images of her pre-2000 Hawaiian BC and her post-2001 Hawaiian COLB. What do the seals on these BCs look like?
mmm … good times had by all!
well, almost all.
So, the two seals – both annuli with a caduceus in the center and the words ‘State of Hawaii’ and ‘Department of Health’ written inside – bear ‘no resemblance’ to one another? And you wonder why you can’t even get FOX News to report on it? Hmmm… Maybe it’s because you uncovered an anomaly that has absolutely no significance whatsoever, you’ve done nothing to show that it is an UNUSUAL anomaly in any way (like showing other extant birth certificates from Hawaii don’t have similar seal anomalies), and you have no theory as to why a forged document would have been produced with a false seal (after all, if the Hawaii DOH are in on it then they could have provided a real one and if they aren’t then we should take their statements at face value). Do you really expect anyone who hasn’t already decided that President Obama is the anti-Christ to take you seriously?
The quote from Miss Tickly was from her blog – my link to it didn’t work (it’s the same page linked in the article, though).
“Miss Tickly” is sort of like Nancy Drew, but with an IQ of 65.
Coincidentally, those who read the wonderful Uncle Scrooge McDuck stories by Carl Barks when they were kids might remember the character of Magica DeSpell, a witch that was always trying to steal Scrooge’s first dime. In the French translations, Magica’s name is “Miss Tick”.
My wife wrote a DUCK TALES cartoon in the 80s with Miss Tick.
But i digress.
Why was Miss Tickly sent an etching of a seal?
From looking at all the other Hawaiian Certification of Live birth (that other birthers have posted) the seals are the same as Obama’s.
From reading her argument it seems that she didn’t take a close enough look at the seals.
> but her accusation exposes a hole in her narrative because it implies that the hdoh is somehow unable to create a foolproof facsimile of a document it is exclusively charged with issuing
But, you know, in birtherland, this is proof of the conspiracy because obviously someone at the HDOH used the wrong seal *on purpose* to help uncover the Great Usurpation. *duh*
They always put meaning in non-events because they can’t pull any from actual events.
I have scanned a copy of my birth certificate, redacted all personally identifiable details, and put it on Flickr here.
Now, does anyone want to subject my birth certificate to the same scrutiny to which Obama’s has been held and argue that it never should have been accepted as valid by the US Department of State?
Because she requested the black and white drawing included in the DOH Administrative Rules as Exhibit A. She says she didn’t get Exhibit A, they substituted something else. But that’s not how information requests work. If they didn’t have what she requested, they wouldn’t have made a substitution. The embossed seal matches the description. In the seal pictured in Doc’s post, you can even tell the series of dots shown are supposed to represent the stars.
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/rules/index.html
Ҥ11-1-2 Seal of the department of health.
a) The official seal of the department of health
shall be circular in shape, two and one-fourth inches
in diameter. At the curve on the top portion there
shall be the words “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and at the
curve on the bottom portion there shall be the words
“STATE OF HAWAII.” At the curve on each side portion
shall be a star. In the center of the seal shall be
the Caduceus, a winged rod entwined with two serpents,
which has long been recognized as a universal symbol
of medicine. The Caduceus shall be encircled by an
indentation, which shall separate it from the words
“DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII.” For
illustrative purposes, a black and white drawing of
the official seal is attached at the end of this
section as Exhibit “A,” titled “Seal of the Department
of Health,” and dated November 1, 1988, and made a
part of this section.”
FYI the Document Number is not personally identifying. It’s just a control number on the security paper.
To me the “fact” that they are different would be interesting if and only if Tickly managed to show a host of other Hawaiian COLBs that have a DIFFERENT seal from that on Obama’s.
The fact that the word “of” is in a different case, for example, would seem to me to indicate that whatever company that made the seal imprinter made it incorrectly and no one cared enough to ask for a new one. I think we’ve all had things like that happen – order some food and it doesn’t come exacty like you order and you just say “Eh, good enough, not worth sending it back.”
It might, MIGHT, be an interesting anecdote if dozens of COLBs printed around the same supposed time period had a different seal from Obama’s – but if any one obtained has the same seal, yet another “smoking gun” turns out as usual to be just blowing smoke.
So the birthers think Obama has spent MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars defending these lawsuits but that he hired some amateur forger to slap together a fake COLB that looks nothing like anyone elses colb from Hawaii….
Really?
You gotta be kidding me.
Jules,
I saw your NY BC. Even assuming you remove the black outs as the BC is completely invalid because it has been altered, it would still not be worth anything.
Again, we only seeing an image of your BC. Your BC has no meaning until some authorative body has seen your BC in the “Real World”.
Like Obama’s BC, we have yet to see Obama’s long-form BC or even his COLB.
The COLB posted is really meaningless because no authortative body has seen the COLB in the “Real World”.
Based on all the information gathered, FactCheck is not a credible authortative body and again did not show the BC in the “Real World” ; only images.
Interestly enough, the Obama BCs that be shown in the “real world” have been Obama’s Kenyan BCs.
ROFL. Ah, yes… Redacting parts of the JPEG after I have scanned it constitutes an alteration of the certificate itself and voids the non-redacted paper version that I have sitting in a drawer (even though the redaction would prevent anyone from knowing which NYC birth certificate is the one that I put online).
I’d like to think that Jason is just a troll out to get some kicks, but there is still that nagging feeling that he is indeed as moronic and stupid as he sounds.
Jason wow that’s fascinating. So the birth certificate on paper magically gets blacked out because she redacted the image. Do you live in the world of Who Framed Roger Rabbit? So if you get banned from a website does that mean you die in real life as well?
No real authoritative body? Don’t you mean no birthers? The State of Hawaii is a real world authoritative body. The director of the Department of Health has said she’s seen the originals and that Obama posted a scan of the COLB on his website.
Who in the “real world” has seen the fake Kenyan BCs besides a convicted forger? Which authoritative body has seen them? It’s funny how you claim one thing about the real COLB and find ways to disqualify it but then don’t hold the same standard for the Fake Kenyan BCs
Sure we have. We’ve seen a scan of it at fight the smears and factcheck. Members of the press examined the COLB at Obama campaign headquarters. Even FoxNews investigated and could find nothing that indicated the President was not born in Hawaii. Ask Andrew Napolitano at Fox News. You don’t honestly think you are entitled to demand Barack Obama to bring his COLB to you for your personal viewing and approval? Think of it this way: when you start a new job and need to show proof of citizenship, like a birth certificate or passport to your new employer, who do you show it to? You show it to someone in HR. You aren’t required to go around the facility and allow each of your co-workers to personally examine it and decide if they think you’re a citizen.
Besides, either on this thread, or wherever else Miss Tickly is publishing this happy horsepucky, some birther will work their way around to ” but the birth certificate doesn’t matter anyway, coz even if he was born in Hawaii, he’s not a natural born citizen. ” Round and round and round goes the birther crazy train – but eventually always ending up back at the ” but but but , not NBC” station.
You’re so wrong that you’re right about something that might be an issue with my birth certificate if I wanted to use it in the country where I live.
If I wanted to use my birth certificate for official purposes in the UK, then I would want to get an apostille from the Secretary of State of the State of New York. However, for some reason, the New York Secretary of State requires that a letter of exemplification be obtained for birth certificates issued by New York City (but not any other part of the state) before an apostille can be issued. Thus, it would need to be inspected and certified by authorities within NYC before the State of New York would confirm to foreign governments that it is a lawfully issued official document.
The Office of the Lieutenant Governor of the State of Hawaii, meanwhile, appears to be able to provide an apostille for any Certification of Live Birth issued by the Hawaii Department of Health.
Are you related to Squeeky, by any chance? She also was under the delusion that the President was duty bound to drive up to her door, knock, and display his COLB to her personally. ROFLMAO.
IN fact Obama had his COLB, the original, on display at his campaign HQ suring the campaign. If you failed to take steps then to go and see it, in the “real world” then that’s your problem, not his.
Also in fact, the only authoritative body, authoriozed by the Constitution to determine POTUS eligibility, was satisfied as to that eligibility for Obama; Congress.
The fact that anyone else got to see his COLB at all is only because Obama believed enough in transparency that he went far beyond what any previous POTUS Candidate ever did.
And yet, that’s still not enough for you birthers. But then again nothing would ever be enough for birthers, would it? In reality his eligibility really isn;t the issue, so any degree of proof of that eligibility isn’t going to convince you.
First, there’s no such word as “interestly.” Could you have meant “Interestingly”?
Second, anyone who would regard the Kenyan forgeries as evidence of anything except Lucas Smith’s greed has some serious issues with the truth.
do you understand the process ( and purpose ) of redaction ? the original isn’t altered in any way and is completely valid.
also, did you have any thoughts on the pakistan ban and indonesian citizenship from the other thread ?
The birthers would go nuts if Obama had been born in New York, because people born in New York City get a birth certificate which is issued by the city and people born elsewhere in the state get one issued by a local registrar on a NY State DOH form. Although they don’t look the same, both the city and state forms contain the same information, and neither form has a space for the name of the hospital or the attending physician (also, mine has a “local registration number” instead of a certificate number).
Interestingly, neither form gives any hint about the citizenship of the parents. With only their names and no other identifying information, it could be a chore to track down their citizenship status.
Jason: excellent points. I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?).
Hope this helps.
Rickey December 6, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Interestingly, neither form gives any hint about the citizenship of the parents. With only their names and no other identifying information, it could be a chore to track down their citizenship status.
*****************************
I’m pretty sure that no birth certificate from any state has a space for “citizenship of parents”, and if it did, they’d have to either need to have teams of investigators for every BC, or just take the parents’ word for it. Mine has a spaces for birthplace of parents, but again I’m pretty damn sure they just took my parents’ word for it.
That must be related to a fact that I pointed out in an earlier comment that seems to have failed to post: Whereas a Hawaii Certification of Live Birth can be sent straight to the Office of the Lt. Governor of Hawaii for an apostille, a birth certificate issued by New York City requires a Letter of Exemplification before the State of New York will provide an apostille. (I suppose the additional step for NYC certificates must have something to do with the different format.)
She and Ladysforest did not inject themselves into the discussion unprompted (each of them was brought into the discussion by one of the commenters here), but because they have their own blogs, I guess they are fair game. I look at at this way. This is pretty much a male dominated site with almost no female commenters who present opposing views. The few women who do comment just give a hooah (spelling) to the birthers are stupid and or racists theme. I looked at her vulgar comment as locker room kind of retaliatory insult. But, there are better ways to handle opposition.
That was laughable! I did notice that but didn’t want to draw any more attention to it. That kind of discussion goes nowhere but down, IMO.
She and Ladysforest did not inject themselves into the discussion unprompted (each of them was brought into the discussion by one of the commenters here), but because they have their own blogs, I guess they are fair game. I look at at this way. This is pretty much a male dominated site with almost no female commenters who present opposing views. The few women who do comment just give a hooah (spelling) to the birthers are stupid and or racists theme. I looked at her vulgar comment as locker room kind of retaliatory insult. But, there are better ways to handle opposition.
That was laughable! I did make the same observation but didn’t want to draw any more attention to it. That kind of discussion goes nowhere but down, IMO.
Doc,
I used ellipses in a couple of words that I think got the comment into moderation. If this goes through, just delete the other comment.
Doc,
I tried twice to get a comment through. There must be a problematic word. I’ll try onemore time. If it fails, you can just leave one comment.
That was laughable! I did make the same observation but didn’t want to draw any more attention to it. That kind of discussion goes nowhere but down, IMO.
I have another response to the rest of your comment, but it is being held in moderation.
She and Ladysforest did not inject themselves into the discussion unprompted (each of them was brought into the discussion by one of the commenters here), but because they have their own blogs, I guess they are fair game. I look at at this way. This is pretty much a male dominated site with almost no female commenters who present opposing views. The few women who do comment just give a hooah (spelling) to the birthers are stupid and or racists theme. I looked at her vulgar comment as locker room kind of retaliatory insult. But, there are better ways to handle opposition.
For some reason, my response to this comment keeps getting moderated so I will just say ditto concerning the oddity.
[The keyword JTX triggered moderation, Doc.]
Okay Doc, I give up. I have no idea why my innocuous response to a line of G’s comment keeps getting moderated. The part that I thought was getting moderated was not the issue after all. Sorry about all of the deletions you’ll have to do. I didn’t want to give up.
You know this how exactly?
Some comments related to the genitalia of commenters here have been deleted.
You can go ahead and delete the repetitious comments.
You are making some seriously mistake assumptions about the gender of some of the regular posters here.
Excuse me, but I am a Hebrew hermaphrodite.
I meant “rubbing” not “etching.” So, my question should have read “Why was Miss Tickly sent a rubbing of a seal?”
Kimba, this is a direct quote from Miss Tickly “You may download the pdf provided to me directly by the HDOH through the use of the UIPA here and below is a jpeg version I extracted from that pdf.” I don’t thing they gave her anything of importance, if anything at all.
Point is that the outline of the seal on Obama’s birth certificate and the other DOH Certification of Live birth match the description of “§11-1-2 Seal of the department of health.”
I wonder what she has to say about Hawaii confirming that they have Obama’s original birth certificate?
I’m female. Either that or my OB/GYN has been committing fraud for the last several decades.
Male dominated doesn’t mean every person is male. I thought you were a male misha. You mentioned a wife, I thought. But I guess that doesn’t mean that you aren’t female. Also, the other part of the comment was that there are no regular female voices who express an opposing view. Of course, people can pretend to be a different gender.
Ellid has always said she was female. And on this blog, sex, race, ethnicity, nor religion has ever mattered. I am not sure how having more female posters would have altered anything? For the most part this blog has been an open exchange of ideas regarding the birthers and their ridiculous attempts to overturn election results they did not like by making up eligibility requirements and changing the law.
And as for females with an opposing view, no one can forget the infamous “Sally Brown” and her nonsensical posts….So I guess I am trying to figure out what your point actually was?
You’ve made A LOT of assumptions. What does that say?
My comment is being partially quoted from another issue, but just in response to your comment, I don’t see many regular female commenters with an opposing voice. You came up with one.
When someone claims to have a wife, I assume the person is a male. My bad.
Doc deleted that part of the thread. So the purpose of my comment can’t be seen in the original context.
I most certainly did NOT mention a wife. I was married for fourteen years, but my ex-husband and I separated ten years ago and he has since remarried.
As for being “a male misha,” that makes no sense since Misha *is* a man, married to a woman.
Not only that, I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned that I attended an all female college (Smith) and being eligible for the DAR (all female organization).
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Context from comments can be misleading but I doubt the accuracy of “almost no female commenters.”
I never doubted you were a female. I could be a member of the DAR. Someone on my father’s side did extensive research and published a book of my grandmother’s family history. My great-great (not sure how many after) came to America from Germany in the 1700’s. One of the relatives is Anna Jarvis (Mother’s Day) and another one is of the first women to graduate from law school in this country.
Not really on the opposition side, though. It wasn’t meant to be a big deal, at least on my part. Whatever the presumed ratio is, it certainly hasn’t stopped me!
Um…didn’t you just say that you thought I was a “male misha”? And that I’d mentioned having a wife? Or am I completely misreading your posts?
Either way, the “male misha” comment was pretty silly, since Misha *does* have a wife and has referred to her several times. I *was* a wife but am now a grass widow.
Lol been a long time since I heard anyone use that term.
elld…..to my eye it’s pretty clear that charo was actually addressing misha’s own comment that he was a hemaphrodite and saying to misha, perhaps a ittle tongue in cheek, in reply….”I thought you were a male, misha”
A combination of a post from you arriving on the board in between misha’s hemaphrodite post and charo’s reply and the absence of a comma between ‘male’ and ‘misha’ may have led you to think charo was replying to you as opposed to misha. Hope this helps.
Anyone for a game of cluedo?
Shame on me! I ought to know better. You nailed it. I didn’t even see ellid’s comment about having been married.
I’m still bewildered by the reference to me having a wife. I live in Massachusetts, yes, but I’m 100% straight…..
” I don’t thing they gave her anything of importance, if anything at all.”
They gave her what she asked for. The black and white drawing of the seal included in Exhibit A as described in the DOH Administrative Rules §11-1-2
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/rules/prac_proc.pdf
If they didn’t have what she asked for, they wouldn’t have substituted something, like she claimed. She’d have gotten nothing. I never said it was important.
elli,
That whole comment was concerning misha. I really screwed up the message big time by not making that clear. I am sorry that I called you the male version of a species named misha. I knew you were a female when you discussed your name with I think Authur.
My failed comments were about the processes for getting an apostille for Hawaiian birth certificates and New York certificates (and how mine, unlike Obama’s, requires exemplification before it can be given an apostille by the state). There was nothing rude in them at all.
Part of the fun of on-line forums is exchanging ideas without necessarily knowing someone’s gender, race, or religion. As time goes on, people say things from time to time that reveal themselves. But for the exchange of ideas, it doesn’t matter.
Back to Tickly and seals and embossing. Is anyone familiar with machine embossers? How often does the embossing part or insert have to be replaced? In a state office like Hawaii’s Dept of Health, would they have several machines or just one? Are they purchased like you’d buy a Pitney Bowes postage machine and maintained by a company rep? Just curious.
I have also looked all over the Hawaii DOH site and can’t find any documents or press releases or anything with the seal in the picture as described in the rules. I wondered what the color version looked like. Mostly they use the seal of the State of Hawaii and a more modern looking seal you can see at the bottom right of the first page of this document:
http://hawaii.gov/health/healthy-lifestyles/tobacco/resources/general/summary.pdf
Maybe they will adopt this new seal as the embossed seal on vital documents in the future. It seems to better represent Hawaii than a Caduceus.
In my opinion, these are exactly the kind of questions that Miss Tickly should have asked (and found answers for) before implying that she had found something nefarious. On the other hand, the birther’s confirmation bias saves them a lot of time and effort…
Has Miss Tickly issued any explanation or apology yet for her erroneous conclusions on the validity of the seals on Obama’s and other COLB’s?
Some of your comments, and some others, went into moderation for reasons I quite understand as yet. Also one legitimate comment was marked as spam. These have all been approved.
Miss Tickly’s lack of logic can be elucidated by her comment in another of her posts regarding sending an email to Fukino.
When she received an auto-sponder reply 7 mins later, she took this delay not only as being bogus, but also likely why Fukino left her job.
One must think they’re pretty damn important if they think their emails can cause people to make major career path changes on the fly.
I believe that Miss Tickly’s theory was the 7 minute delay in the auto-reply indicated that Dr. Fukino was fired on the spot due to Miss Tickly’s email (presumably because Miss T’s investigation had gotten so close the the truth on Dr. Fukino’s watch – the conspiracy would certainly be monitoring all email at the Hawaii DOH and be capable of reading the email, firing Dr. Fukino, and sending a reply within 7 minutes… ;-)). I’m not sure why a 7 minute delay couldn’t be more easily be explained by a 5 minute housekeeping cycle on the auto-reply server and a 1 minute transit time on either side, but I’m sure there must be some reason that only birthers can understand…
It be dem damn stealth ninja network packets working their nefarious magic on the Inter-Tubes I tells ya…… 😉
She updated that post as follows:
[Ed. Note: For the record, I called the Omsbudsman’s office was told that with the new administration coming in, Fukino left.]
Not only that Ms. Tickly’s entire premise is predicated on the idea that President Obama was not born in HI, the COLB is fake, and the HI DoH is covering up for him. So anything she comes up with is basically a confirmation bias of those thoughts. If you look at her so called “updates” at the top of the article, they basically speak for themselves…
[*UPDATE: Handy information following this post about the Hawaii Department of Health’s uniform practices.]
[*UPDATE 2: I see the familiar Obot Obfuscators are out in full force, pretending to play ‘devil’s advocates,’ pushing their phony seals, and claiming more credibility as anonymous yahoos commenting online than records granted under Open Records Law and disclosed directly from the Hawaii Department of Health–records which are consistent with the description of the seal in the Title 11-1 Administrative rules.
As if we don’t have better judgment. Arm yourselves with info and stand strong to shout them down.
And don’t be fooled when one Obot vouches for the credibility of another to convince you. Fact: They are all still anonymous yahoos. There is a coordinated effort online to drive this story away from this post. Far away. And fast.
Added 12/5: **MAKE NO MISTAKE, these Obot plants will really, really insist they and other Obot plants are credible, sweet, “patriotic” citizens.**
Ask yourselves, would you go so far as to VOUCH for the credibility of anyone you met or encountered online including commenters you really like? I have to question the judgment of people who would. How do they know?
Personally, I wouldn’t VOUCH for the credibility of people I have met online and even provided my real name. I always feel I am taking a risk doing something like that.]
[UPDATE 3: Big surprise. Some Obots are confused, so that’s something. For the record, I did not ASSUME the image disclosed to me was an image of an embossment, the HDOH staff member who provided it expressly stated it is.]
From here latest vomit about how the Obama BC is baaadddddd
Don’t Birfoons understand that this is not a two dimensional world…if you take a piece of paper, it has TWO sides….and if you PRESS something in one side…it shows as a RAISED edge on the other……?
Actually, 6. Four are just really, really small.
Smart ass….. 😎 sure you’re not Squeeky..?
No, his was a coherent, cogent, topical, and witty bit of smart-assery..
Squeeky’s reply would only have consisted of words to the effect of “You are a man and are very baaaaaad. Pay attention to MEEEEEEE! So there!!!”
Vast difference.
Don’t forget “grunty male beast”… 😉
More Ms. Tickly nonsense….
http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/shocking-dr-fukino-departs-doh-in-hawaii/
[UPDATE 2: What do your seal impressions look like on your own certified birth certificate copy? Below are the seal impressions on the certified birth certificate copies belonging to myself and my husband.
After viewing these impressions this evening and noticing they had more similarities to each other and to the official HDOH seal than Obama’s seal impression from his online COLB, I realized there may be NATIONAL uniform standards for the seals applied to certified copies of birth certificates, and there are they MUST be raised FOR authentication purposes. The seal on Obama’s COLB is not raised. Again, how did he obtain a passport?]
itooktheredpill | December 8, 2010 at 12:56 am | Reply
12-04-2010
Governor-Elect Abercrombie Announces Cabinet Appointees
…
The ongoing priority is to select directors and deputy directors through this transition process. Gov.-Elect Abercrombie is still interviewing applicants for the directors of the following departments: Health, Attorney General, Defense, Human Services and Transportation.
It appears that Abercrombie cleared house across many departments.
But I’m very curious to know what Dr. Fukino is up to now, now that she is no longer the Director of Health…
Bridgette | December 8, 2010 at 8:44 pm | Reply
“Does the new Governor of Hawaii know Obama’s True Past?”
by Miki Booth
“Neil Abercrombie came out early in support of Obama. He claims he had a personal relationship with Obama Sr. at the University of Hawaii and he’s the only person who puts Sr. together with Stanley Ann Dunham. I think this is manufactured nonsense, and the reason I say so is that I know who Abercrombie is and who he is not.
…
With Abercrombie as governor, it will be assured that Obama’s made-up Hawaii story will be documented as fact and anything contrary to their narrative for him will be gone forever.”
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/12/08/does-the-new-governor-of-hawaii-know-obamas-true-past/
misstickly | December 8, 2010 at 9:56 pm | Reply
I just found an amazing quote implicating Congress in this mess…for anyone interested: http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/what-did-congress-know-when-did-they-know-it/
misstickly | December 8, 2010 at 11:03 pm | Reply
Arlen Specter knew he was lying. He is too right on the money. Obviously if he saw the Factcheck photos he saw that there was NO raised text. He is flat out implicating congress in KNOWING.
Does this alarm anyone else?
“…The website Factcheck.org investigated the matter and provided high-resolution photos taken at multiple angles that revealed the raised text and the seal on the back of the document. … Accordingly, it has been concluded that President Obama has met the constitutional qualifications to be President of the United States.“
– Sen. Arlen Specter
Or this comment, I love how they just will attack the credibility of the President’s relatives…
Leza | December 8, 2010 at 1:16 am | Reply
MissTickly you said obamas b/c has a seal from DOH pre 1988 on his 2007 COLB – correct?
How’s this for theory?
Maya! if she worked in a high school program through the state of HI at the DOH she could have had access to these DOH seals.
Would it not be interesting if –
1. Maya did have access
2. One of these seals just happen to be “missing” from that time period!
(This may have already been brought up? I have been “buzzzy” and haven’t had much time to catch up!)
Here is more of her seal nonsense from the same site:
http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/they-aint-seen-nothin-yet/
Look for her in the comments section.
Someone named ps sent her a copy of Hawaiian BC seal that doe not fit her preconceived ideas of what the seal should look like. She quotes Hawaii Regulations, but misreads them.
§11-1-2 Seal of the department of health.
a) The official seal of the department of health shall be circular in shape, two and one-fourth inches in diameter. At the curve on the top portion there shall be the words “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and at the curve on the bottom portion there shall be the words “STATE OF HAWAII.” At the curve on each side portion shall be a star. In the center of the seal shall be the Caduceus, a winged rod entwined with two serpents, which has long been recognized as a universal symbol of medicine. The Caduceus shall be encircled by an indentation, which shall separate it from the words “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII.” For illustrative purposes, a black and white drawing of the official seal is attached at the end of this section as Exhibit “A,” titled “Seal of the Department of Health,” and dated November 1, 1988, and made a part of this section.
Notice there is nothing about the outer ring on the seal. And that the Exhibit “A” seal is only for “illustrative purposes”.
She also is apparently on the outs with some of the inmates at freakrepublic, over calling the Danae “xerox BC” a fake.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2606951/posts?q=1&;page=1751
Post 1791 is where she makes her claims. Danae’s COLB says “Date Filed” just like the President’s. And that bothers Missticky.
Of course it does. Her whole set of ideas are based upon her pre-conceived conclusions. Any reality that intrudes upon that and conflicts with her nonsense assumptions just pisses her off.
That is why she is having such a fit over Arlen Spectre’s statement, can’t deal with the reality that the factcheck.org investigation & images clearly show a raised seal, and is having a total hissy over Danae’s COLB.
Reality makes Miss Ticky sad.
Even more hilarious is this post…
To: OldDeckHand; tired_old_conservative; LucyT
I’ve received this in an e-mail, so I though I would ping your “attorney” minds and see if you feel we are screwed???
The Lying Lawyers Obamas
This is from a former Chicago lawyer now practicing law in Tyler, TX.
This is legit. I checked it out myself at https://www.iardc.org Stands for Illinois Attorney Registration And Disciplinary Committee. It’s the official arm of lawyer discipline in Illinois; and they are very strict and mean as hell. (Talk about irony.) Even I, at the advanced age of almost 65, maintain (at the cost of approximately $600/year) my law license that I worked so hard and long to earn.
Big surprise.
Former Constitutional Law Lecturer and U.S. President Makes Up Constitutional Quotes During State Of The Union (SOTU) Address.
Consider this:
1. President Barack Obama, former editor of the Harvard Law Review, is no longer a “lawyer”. He surrendered his license back in 2008 in order to escape charges he lied on his bar application.
A “Voluntary Surrender” is not something where you decide “Gee, a license is not really something I need anymore, is it?” and forget to renew your license. No, a “Voluntary Surrender” is something you do when you’ve been accused of something, and you ‘voluntarily surrender” your license five seconds before the state suspends you.
2. Michelle Obama “voluntarily surrendered” her law license in 1993.
3. So, we have the first black President and First Lady – who don’t actually have licenses to practice law. Facts.
Source: http://jdlong.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/pres-barack-obama-editor-of-the-Harva rd-law-review-has-no-law-license/
4. A senior lecturer is one thing, a fully ranked law professor is another. Barack Obama was NOT a Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago.
5. The University of Chicago released a statement in March 2008 saying Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) “served as a professor” in the law school-but that is a title Obama, who taught courses there part-time, never held, a spokesman for the school confirmed in 2008.
6. “He did not hold the title of Professor of Law,” said Marsha Ferziger Nagorsky, an Assistant Dean for Communications and Lecturer in Law at the University of Chicago School of Law.
Source: > http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obama_did_hold_the_title.html
; 7. The former Constitutional Senior Lecturer (Obama) cited the U.S. Constitution the other night during his State of the Union Address. Unfortunately, the quote he cited was from the Declaration of Independence … not the Constitution.
8. The B-Cast posted the video: http://www.breitbart.tv/did-obama-confuse-the-constitution-with-the-declarat ion-of-independence/
9. Free Republic: In the State of the Union Address, President Obama said: “We find unity in our incredible diversity, drawing on the promise enshrined in our Constitution: the notion that we are all created equal.
10. Um, wrong citing, wrong founding document there Champ, I mean Mr. President. By the way, the promises are not a notion, our founders named them unalienable rights. The document is our Declaration of Independence and it reads:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
11. And this is the same guy who lectured the Supreme Court moments later in the same speech?
When you are a phony it’s hard to keep facts straight.
Keep this moving – educate others. November is close…: )
In doubt? check it out through the source provided.
1,756 posted on Saturday, October 23, 2010 4:08:59 PM by danamco (“)
Miss Tickly is one of those special snowflakes who would spin Obama simply breathing as “willfully polluting the air with carbon dioxide over 30,000 times a day!!”
I would imagine it is inconsequential….now if Hawaii had verified that the COLB posted by factcheck.org was authentic….she might have had something to say about that!
There are 2 problems here.
1. The COLB or the Long-form BC don’t really make a difference because Obama is not a NBC due to receiving foreign citizenship from his father.
2. Hawaii has very carefully worded their responses to where they are only on record stating they have his ‘vital record(s)’ on file….and depending on which statement you look at either they are just ‘on file’, or ‘on record in accordance with state policies and procedures’.
How many vital records do you have? I have only 1. Apparently Obama has more than one.
So his BC is on record in accordance with state policies and procedures, but his vital records are just on file.
Seems nit-picky, but given the gravity of what is at stake and the fact that it is a governmental agency issuing the statement, there should be consistency and purpose with any statement that is issued, and there was. Each statement said EXACTLY what they wished them to say. They were crafted specifically to say not much of anything.
Re-read the statements…this time, read them for what they really say and not for what you want them to say.
Bill: There are 2 problems here.
1. The COLB or the Long-form BC don’t really make a difference because Obama is not a NBC due to receiving foreign citizenship from his father.
Well Bill, President Obama doesn’t have a problem with that, apparently only you do. The voters knew that being a NBC doesn’t depend on who a foreign government decides is their citizen, as did the Electoral College and Congress.
Only Birthers seem to have forgotten what they learned in Civics classes in school.
“2. Hawaii has very carefully worded their responses to where they are only on record stating they have his ‘vital record(s)’ on file….and depending on which statement you look at either they are just on file’, or on record in accordance with state policies and procedures’.”
See this is again Birther dancing going on. The State of Hawaii is on record stating that they have President Obama’s birth original birth certiifcate on file.
But you- as Birthers almost always do- ignore the second statement- that President Obama was born on Hawaii.
Completely unequivocal offiical statement by the State of Hawaii- President Obama was born on Hawaii.
“Re-read the statements…this time, read them for what they really say and not for what you want them to say”
I suggest you do the same. Read what Dr. Fukino says and not what you want her statement to be saying- or not saying. .
Bill: good catch. I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?). Hope this helps.
Thanks for visiting.
Dr. Fukino did testify that the COLB posted online was authentic, in testimony pleading for the law to refuse repeated birther requests for Obama’s records.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28117439/Sb2937-Testimony-Jgo-02-23-10-Late
“For more than a year, the Department of Health has continued to receive approximately 50 e- mail inquiries a month seeking access to President Barack Obama’s birth certificate in spite of the fact that President Obama has posted a copy of the certificate on his former campaign website.”
So now you admit that we have something here, don’t you birther?
Care to admit you were wrong?
Our will you move the goalposts again?
Fukino never said the Hawaii Department of Health issued Obama’s online ‘certified’ copy of his birth certificate. You know it. I know it. End of it.
They didn’t make that claim and they never have. I asked them, myself. Did you?
Find me the quote that says “I, Dr. Fukino, issued President Obama’s online ‘Certification of Live Birth’ and it was certified on the back, with a rubber stamp, by Dr. Alvin Onaka.”
Now, I do have UIPA requests out for records stating the name of equipment and serial numbers, used to place the ‘certification statement’ and ‘signature’ on a certified copy. And also instructions on where it would be placed.
The public health regulations say it must be photographed or entered mechanically. Black’s Law makes a distinction between a photographed signature, one entered mechanically and one that’s rubber stamped.
We’ll just have to see how Hawaii defines those terms. Hopefully they don’t make you look like a BIGGER asshole.
I have always distinguished between “being wrong” and “being an asshole.” Being an asshole is a matter of arrogance and failing to listen. There are assholes on both sides of the Obama eligibility debate. However, only one side is wrong.
Well, what about this?
That sounds like the certificate that has been sought from the Department of Health is what Barack Obama posted on his web site. You’d have to do some fancy twisting to make this say something else.
Lying (telling untruth with intent to deceive) comes so easy to the birthers that they no longer know when they are doing it.
It is normally not considered good manners, when entering somebody else’s place, to be disrespectful to your host (such as your statement). In some cultures, it is traditional to bring a gift to honor your host. I am always amazed and pleased at the Doc’s calm demeanor, even to those who walk in and “fling poo at their host” (and, should your care, I am not very pleased when those whom you oppose do the same at others, though I can understand the frustration behind some of it).
I do have a suggestion on the substance of your post. It would help your argument that “Fukino never said the DOH issued the certificate,” if you did not lead into it with a quote from Fukino stating the Obama had a certificate from the DOH. I think this may diminish the effectiveness of your assertion.
Note: Before you state that Fukino did not state that she had certified that particular certificate, why would she mention his campaign posting the certificate if it was not issued by the DOH?
Dr. Fukino came very close to what Miss Tickly is asking for when she testified under oath before the Hawai’i Senate’s Committee on the Judiciary and Government Operations.
Dr. Fukino said, and I quote her, “For more than a year, the Department of Health has continued to receive approximately 50 e-mail inquiries a month seeking access to President Barack Obama’s birth certificate IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT POSTED A COPY OF THE CERTIFICATE ON HIS FORMER CAMPAIGN WEBSITE. Hawai’i is a ‘closed records’ state, meaning that vital records are available only to those with a direct and tangible interest as defined by statute; hence they are not subject to disclosure under public records requests.”–Dr. Chiyome Fukino, February 23, 2010
In addition to Dr. Fukino’s statement about Obama’s internet posted COLB, Janice Okubo, Director of Communications for the Hawai’i Department of Health was interviewed by the Washington Independent on July 17, 2009. Okubo said the following: “Ironically, the ‘birther’ movement began in response to Obama’s own efforts to debunk rumors. One year ago this week, the presidential campaign of then Senator Obama launched fightthesmears.com, a web site designed to push back against false rumors about the first African-American presidential nominee. To push back against rumors that he was not born in Hawai’i the campaign reproduced a Certificate of Live Birth from the state’s Health Department. Instead of terminating the conspiracy theories, that inspired new theories-that the certificate had been forged or that even if it hadn’t been forged, it was the kind of certificate that could be given to someone born outside of the United States.. But the Certificate is specific about Obama’s birth in Honolulu, even down to the 7:24 p.m. time.
‘It’s crazy,’ said Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawai’i Department of Health. ‘I don’t think anything is ever going to satisfy them.'”
“Okubo, who said that she gets weekly questions from Obama ‘birthers’ that are ‘more like threats’ explained THAT THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH REPRODUCED BY THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN SHOULD HAVE DEBUNKED THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
‘If you were born in Bali, for example, Okubo explained, ‘you could get a certificate saying that you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying that you were born in Honolulu. THE STATE HAS TO VERIFY A FACT LIKE THAT for it to appear on the certificate. But it’s become clear that it doesn’t matter what I say. The people who are questioning this bring up all these implausible scenarios. What if the physician lied? What if the state lied? It’s just become an urban legend at this point.'”–The Washington Independent, July 17, 2009
@Miss Tickly: I agree with you. I found Obama’s Kenya BC! Thanks for visiting.
Dr. Fukino also never said the Hawaii Department of Health did not issue Obama’s online copy of his birth certificate. You know it. I know it. If the online image had appeared to be inauthentic, there is nothing which would have prohibited Dr. Fukino from saying so.
However, Dr. Fukino did say this:
I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.
End of it.
You’re splitting hairs.
In the words of Marcia Clark “Hairs cannot be split.”
And the sad thing is that if the new HI DOH director says something more definitive it will be chalked up as more conspiratorial proof.
Just e-mail? Birthers aren’t even making written requests? And in the tens per month? E.g., not in the hundreds of thousands? I think the birthers may be overestimating the size of their movement.
MissTickly has opened her lying mouth and proved who the a$$hole actually is!
;>)
misstickly is still spreading her misinformation all over the internet….
misstickly
December 10, 2010 at 9:35 am
Yes, I hope people are trying to get Lt. Col. Lakin the message that in light of the fact that Obama’s COLB does not have a raised seal,’ Factcheck.org and Arlen Specter (speaking on behalf of Congress) have both in effect sdmitted that without the raised seal’ it is not legal.
The first 2 posts at my blog need to find there way to Lakin!
http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/
misstickly
December 10, 2010 at 3:03 pm
ANYONE can request the record they released me (the image of the seal) through the UIPA in an open records request.
You can verify with the HDOH or OIP that they sent me this record because I also forwarded it to the OIP and the email sent to me by the HDOH.
Although the HDOH does have PR staff to handle UIPA requests, all requests are to be directed to the Director, Dr. Fukino at the time. I always copy her on my requests and did on this one.
Like I posted on my blog, I have requested that Factcheck.org retract their statement about it having a raised seal.
Of course, they have not responded to that request yet.
The newspaper editor you spoke to will not keep the truth from coming to the light. They are all feeble infotainers under the direction of Money & Power.
Yes, the Hawaii Department of Health directly provided me the image of the Official Seal of the Department of Health, and yes they TOLD me it was an embossment.
Anyone with questions about whether the HDOH provided it to me should really send the file I posted back to the HDOH, and ask them to send you, under the UIPA, an electronic image of the Official HDOH Department Seal as described in HAR 11-1 and as attached to your email exactly as they sent it to me or any new scan/image they wish to send you.
Tell your newspaper idiot to do that because you will be, too.
misstickly
December 10, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I meant to leave this comment here, so if you want to delete the duplicate, Dr. Kate…
“And let me say, I am the type to continually forward my emails and every bit of my research and work to every family and friend just to keep a record of it.=)
That’s why I forwarded the email with the image of the HDOH seal to the OIP. So they could never backpeddle and say they didn’t give it to me.
Me, the OIP and a dozen other people got my annoying overkill email forwards making sure it’s permanently on the record.’”
But the funniest post is below….I guess he still hasn’t received the message regarding who won the election in 2008….
eddie h.
December 10, 2010 at 12:46 pm
i just returned from the dental clinic. the tv was on with cnn . it was all i could do to not throw up on the floor. the reporters were constantly calling obama the president and reporting how the republicans were working with him and about the tax deal. the republicans as well as cnn reporters know damn well obama is not legal and is usurping the office of president. i honestly believe they think that they are going to be allowed to continue indefinitely perpetrating these crimes on we the people of america. we must prove them wrong.
Link
http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/five-days-to-infamy/
*crickets*
Having some really deep thoughts are you tickly?
Miss Tickly left a response but as it was a brief insult with a bad word, I decided not to allow it to appear.
Another remarkable display of the concept of “willful ignorance” by Miss Sickly; there’s nothing they cannot ignore by either putting their fingers in their ears or covering their eyes. And the end result of that misguided effort is nothing more than a silly semantic argument. If this is said, they say you didn’t say that, but if that is said, they say you didn’t say this, and around and around and around she goes, where she stops, nobody knows.
I’ve looking for this CLN for 18 months. How did you get it?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8504333@N02/5014337262/in/photostream/
Read the caption. Its a joke it was created by Misha using a template
Our President still sleeps in the White House and there’s not a damn thing you or your psychotic, idiotic, scummy, un-American birther klan can do. GFY.
Birthers are so easily fooled.
Lars: I found Obama’s authentic Kenya BC! Keep up the good work.
Too late! I submitted it to Rep. Rohrabacher for review.
As part of her drive to revamp the House Foreign Affairs Committee, incoming chairwoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) has named Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) as her point man on oversight and investigations related to the Obama administration.
“I will be establishing mechanisms for Americans to blow the whistle on waste, fraud, and abuse in State Department and Foreign Aid operations by welcoming anonymous tips,” Ros-Lehtinen said, in announcing that Rohrabacher would chair the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations on Tuesday.
Ros-Lehtinen touted Rohrabacher’s past work with the subcommittee in investigating corruption in the U.N. Oil for Food program. “He also participated in investigations into foreign-owned banks under U.S. contract which violated U.S. sanctions on Iran, Cuba, and Libya,” she said.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/12/21/rohrabacher_put_in_charge_of_house_foreign_affairs_investigations?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d111f7b8a862f9e,1
Another irony meter explodes.
haha Rep Rohrbacher is going to laugh in your face