The occasional open thread – Vacation edition

Posted on January 10, 2011 by Dr. Conspiracy

What’s on your mind. This thread will remain open for 18 days. Please use sparingly so that the page won’t grow too long.

About Dr. Conspiracy

I'm not a real doctor, but I have a master's degree.
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828 Responses to The occasional open thread – Vacation edition

  1. Rickey says:
    January 10, 2011 at 12:33 pm  (Quote)

    This just in:

    CERTIORARI DENIED

    10-541
    TAITZ, ORLY V. MACDONALD, THOMAS D., ET AL.

  2. Majority Will says:
    January 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm  (Quote)

    HuffPo’s report:

    Supreme Court Rejects Appeal Filed By Birther Queen Orly Taitz
    01/10/11 10:03 AM

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a lawyer who has been in the forefront of the challenge to President Barack Obama’s citizenship.

    The high court on Monday did not comment in refusing to hear the appeal filed by California lawyer and dentist Orly Taitz. She was contesting a $20,000 fine for filing what a federal judge determined was a frivolous lawsuit.

    The suit was filed on behalf of Army Capt. Connie Rhodes, who sought to avoid deployment to Iraq by claiming Obama wasn’t born in the United States and thus, is ineligible to be president and commander in chief.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/10/supreme-court-rejects-app_1_n_806713.html

  3. Bovril says:
    January 10, 2011 at 12:51 pm  (Quote)

    Ahhhhh, but in the rat infested mind of Mad Ole Orly the fact that there was no comment means it’s a seekrit coded way of saying the SC really, truly, honestly, did want to give her, her pony and unicorn but have been intimidated by Da Ebil Usurperator…….

  4. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 10, 2011 at 1:52 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: HuffPo’s report:Supreme Court Rejects Appeal Filed By Birther Queen Orly Taitz01/10/11 10:03 AM WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a lawyer who has been in the forefront of the challenge to President Barack Obama’s citizenship.The high court on Monday did not comment in refusing to hear the appeal filed by California lawyer and dentist Orly Taitz. She was contesting a $20,000 fine for filing what a federal judge determined was a frivolous lawsuit.The suit was filed on behalf of Army Capt. Connie Rhodes, who sought to avoid deployment to Iraq by claiming Obama wasn’t born in the United States and thus, is ineligible to be president and commander in chief.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/10/supreme-court-rejects-app_1_n_806713.html

    Next up for Taitz she will use her husband’s wealth to fund her own supreme court and appoint her own justices to which she will submit her case again.

  5. Rickey says:
    January 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm  (Quote)

    Next up is Hollister. Cert will be officially denied a week from today.

  6. Slartibartfast says:
    January 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm  (Quote)

    Everyone,

    I suggest we use the ‘Blog on Vacation’ thread as an open thread for now in order to keep this one from getting unwieldy too quickly – 18 days is a long time…

  7. Bovril says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:03 pm  (Quote)

    Possibly by not replying to….how can we be charitable, thread bloating posters..?

  8. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm  (Quote)

    Maybe it would help if certain people did not “quote” the whole something else somebody said right above in the thread. Because some people just quote everything they comment on whether it makes sense or not.

    Anyway, here is where I made another predictions that came out true!!! Here is what i said last night:

    “Maybe if you have nutty people running around loose in Tucson with a gun, it is easier to blame politicians than the sheriff of Tucson??? Oh wait, he IS the sheriff of Tucson.”

    Then LO AND BEHOLD!!! there is this today that comes out:

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176947

    Where this little tidbit can be found:

    Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.

    Sooo, my suspicions about things aren’t so stupid after all, are they???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  9. obsolete says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm  (Quote)

    While Doc’s gone, now is a good time for us Obots to ‘fess up and explain how the birthers have been right all along- we have succeeded in pulling off a 50 year conspiracy that stretches across all levels of government across three continents.
    Ha ha, silly birthers! You’ve got to admit we had you start doubting yourself!

  10. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Maybe it would help if certain people did not “quote” the whole something else somebody said right above in the thread. Because some people just quote everything they comment on whether it makes sense or not.Anyway, here is where I made another predictions that came out true!!! Here is what i said last night:“Maybe if you have nutty people running around loose in Tucson with a gun, it is easier to blame politicians than the sheriff of Tucson??? Oh wait, he IS the sheriff of Tucson.”Then LO AND BEHOLD!!! there is this today that comes out:http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176947Where this little tidbit can be found:Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.Sooo, my suspicions about things aren’t so stupid after all, are they???Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    So what are you trying to say Squeeks? That people should worry for you even though your mental health is being well managed

  11. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm  (Quote)

    Bovilexia:

    You don’t have to be “charitable.” You can just come out and say “Don’t talk to Squeeky Fromm”, and it will not hurt my feelings very much. Only a little bit. But that is just part of being a “Girl Reporter”. Not everybody likes your news or opinions. Plus, sometimes it is easier to just not say something when you have been beaten WITH LOGIC!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  12. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm  (Quote)

    Dr Ken:

    Maybe you shouldn’t quote as much. You just did 17 lines of quote, for just two lines of comment to me. Above, you did the same thing to somebody else. I bet that is helping the threads to get messed up, all the “quotes” and extra lines.

    The Internet Article is just what it is. The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job, and maybe that is why he is trying soooo hard to distract everybody from where he may have messed up.

    Here is the ORIGINAL Internet Article:

    http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

    Plus, it seems like the murderer was a 9-11 Truther.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  13. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Dr Ken:Maybe you shouldn’t quote as much. You just did 17 lines of quote, for just two lines of comment to me. Above, you did the same thing to somebody else. I bet that is helping the threads to get messed up, all the “quotes” and extra lines. The Internet Article is just what it is. The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job, and maybe that is why he is trying soooo hard to distract everybody from where he may have messed up.Here is the ORIGINAL Internet Article:http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/Plus, it seems like the murderer was a 9-11 Truther.Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    There’s no difference between birther and truthers many truthers I’ve come across are also birthers. It requires the same shutting off of the logical thought processes in ones brain to be both

  14. Slartibartfast says:
    January 10, 2011 at 4:35 pm  (Quote)

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    There’s no difference between birther and truthers many truthers I’ve come across are also birthers.It requires the same shutting off of the logical thought processes in ones brain to be both

    The folks over at Dr. Kate’s have seemed receptive to the occasional truther comment (I believe Dr. Kate even posted an article about 9/11 truth once) – In my opinion the biggest difference between birthers and truthers is that birthers are wrong on the law and truthers are wrong on the science (both are wrong on the facts…).

  15. Keith says:
    January 10, 2011 at 5:34 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: Ahhhhh, but in the rat infested mind of Mad Ole Orly the fact that there was no comment means it’s a seekrit coded way of saying the SC really, truly, honestly, did want to give her, her pony and unicorn but have been intimidated by Da Ebil Usurperator…….

    Clearly, SCOTUS was intimidated by the Tucson shootings.

  16. Keith says:
    January 10, 2011 at 5:41 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job,

    The Pima County Sheriff’s Office is NOT in the Mental Health Management business.

    Mental Health services all across the country are in a crisis due to conservative legislatures methodically stripping funds from health care services. Ronald Regan is credited with stripping federal funding from the Mental Health Hospitals and the States have been following suit ever since.

  17. Rickey says:
    January 10, 2011 at 6:48 pm  (Quote)

    Arizona has been replete with death threats lately.

    Rep. Raul Grijalva closed his offices after receiving death threats in April after he called on the Federal government to challenge Arizona’s new immigration law.

    Judge Roll received death threats after he ruled against an Arizona farmer who was being sued by illegal immigrants.

    Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon received death threats after he announced his opposition to the immigration law.

    U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton received death threats after she issued a stay on the implementation of most of Arizona’s immigration law.

    The problem with enforcing the laws is determining intent.

  18. Majority Will says:
    January 10, 2011 at 8:15 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: Possibly by not replying to….how can we be charitable, thread bloating posters..?

    Or by responding to self-serving, drunken, deranged, illiterate, spamming, delusional, needy birther trolls.

  19. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 10, 2011 at 8:40 pm  (Quote)

    Keith:

    Did you read the links??? I hate to ask this, but you know with some people here not thinking it is necessary to read the links, who knows??? Because if you did, you will see that the story is beginning to look like the Tucson Sheriff simply did not do his job. His mention of the mental health system and plural use of run-ins indicate to me the story is right.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  20. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 10, 2011 at 9:25 pm  (Quote)

    Plus, here is my latest Internet Article:

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/paul-krugman-joins-westboro-baptist-church/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  21. Keith says:
    January 10, 2011 at 9:43 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Did you read the links?

    Did you not read my post???? I hate to ask this, but you know with some people here not thinking it is necessary to read what people are telling them, who knows???

    I read one of the links to see what you are talking about, and it is misinformed propaganda.

    Which part of the sentence “The Pima County Sheriff’s Office is a law enforcement organization, not a Mental Health Management organization.” do you not understand?

    Yes, since mentally ill patients are in the community more, they will have issues with LEO’s more often, but that still doesn’t make LEO’s Medical Health practitioners. They have enough on their plate dealing with law enforcement issues. The most a LEO can do is ensure nobody is in immediate danger and refer the situation to the relevant Health authorities. If you want to then argue that the relevant Health authorities didn’t do enough, then fair enough, do some checking on why they don’t have enough case workers and other resources to do their job.

    Please stop lying and/or spreading other people’s lies about stuff that you know nothing about. I grew up in Tucson and have worked for both Pima County and the City of Tucson. You need to be aware that Clarence Dupnik is the most highly regarded Sheriff in the history of the department, has been overwhelmingly reelected every 4 years for 30 years, and the PCSD is one of the most professional LEO’s in the country.

    You are barking up the wrong tree, and your smear Dupnik campaign is going to backfire quite spectacularly.

  22. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Or by responding to self-serving, drunken, deranged, illiterate, spamming, delusional, needy birther trolls.

    I guess some just can’t help themselves. All she’s going to do is call people names, insist that she knows it all, and tell people to read her crappy articles. It never changes. Who needs it.

  23. Rickey says:
    January 10, 2011 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    Keith:
    I grew up in Tucson and have worked for both Pima County and the City of Tucson. You need to be aware that Clarence Dupnik is the most highly regarded Sheriff in the history of the department, has been overwhelmingly reelected every 4 years for 30 years, and the PCSD is one of the most professional LEO’s in the country.

    Not to mention that the Sheriff doesn’t get to choose whether people will be prosecuted – that’s up to the D.A. or the City Attorney. So blaming Sheriff Dupnik because Loughren wasn’t prosecuted for whatever threats he may have made is disingenuous.

    And Squeeky obviously thinks that there is something special about writing an “Internet article.” Anybody with a keyboard and an Internet connection can write an Internet article.

  24. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 10, 2011 at 11:59 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:

    Anybody with a keyboard and an Internet connection can write an Internet article.

    Good point, Rick. Anyone can write about anything they want even if they and couldn’t intelligently address the subject matter, like music for example.

  25. Lupin says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:24 am  (Quote)

    Squeeky Fromm is mentally ill (she pretty much admitted as much on her site) and am I the only one to find her pseudonym disturbing?

    When is your DHS going to start profiling white male wingnuts as a far higher security risk than muslims?

    As John Cole aptly said, the point isn’t that shooter is crazy — they all are — it’s that the crazies are being whipped into a frenzy by venal, meretricious, self-serving right-wing politicians.

    Also, political assassination DOES work. Ask Israel. What people like Palin can’t get through democratic means, they’ll pursue through other avenues.

  26. obsolete says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:48 am  (Quote)

    For the 967th time, if you ignore the fake Squeeky (aka political assassin advocate), it will go away and take its “tee hee!” with it.
    And everybody’s IQ on this site will increase by 12 points. Even birthers.

  27. Majority Will says:
    January 11, 2011 at 7:32 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: For the 967th time, if you ignore the fake Squeeky (aka political assassin advocate), it will go away and take its “tee hee!” with it.
    And everybody’s IQ on this site will increase by 12 points. Even birthers.

    Hear, hear.

  28. Scientist says:
    January 11, 2011 at 8:15 am  (Quote)

    Keith: Excellent posts How much more value there is in those with personal knowledge of the facts compared to those (whom I won’t name) who repost trash from politicos with big axes to grind and do no independent investigation of their own.

    The issue of what to do with the severly mentallly ill is an extremely diifficult one. While there were certainly budgetary motives for de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, it is also true that state mental hospitals were often hell-holes, as has been well documented in books and movies. The de-institutionalization movement started in response to those abuses, with the idea that the de-institutionalized would be treated in community settings. However, the mentally ill often believe they don’t need treatment, and ensuring they stay on meds is not a trivial undertaking.

    In Loughner’s case he was kicked out of community college and his parents were told to get him a mental health evaluation before he could return. Did they? Since he did not return to school, it seems perhaps they didn’t. This, despite his mother being a county employee and likely having pretty good health insurance. But at least the college learned from Virginia Tech and protected the students and faculty.

    That left him out in the community. In that case, what can law enforcement do? The answer, as you noted, is very little. It is almost impossible to civilly commit someone, barring an actual act of violence, which Loughner had not committed until last Saturday. To blame the Sheriff, for political motive,s is astounding, given that he is bound by the law.

    So, regardless of what we do, there will be disturbed individuals out there. What we don’t have to accept is that there will be ARMED disturbed individuals. I am well aware of the 2nd Amendment. However, the laws forbidding convicted felons from owning guns have long been upheld as constitutional. While among those are certainly violent, dangerous people, they also include many non-violent offenders. So, someone who wrote a few bad checks can be denied a gun, while a raving lunatic is free to accumulate an arsenal. At a minimum, there needs to be a provision that someone thrown out of school or let go from a job for serious mental illness be denied guns and ammo. Such individuals would, of course, be free to go to court and show why they were not a risk to society, but until they can do that, they should be barred.

    It’s really preposterous that the law can require us to practically strip naked to get on an airplane, yet countenance armed lunatics roaming the streets.

  29. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 11, 2011 at 9:32 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: Keith: Excellent posts How much more value there is in those with personal knowledge of the facts compared to those (whom I won’t name) who repost trash from politicos with big axes to grind and do no independent investigation of their own.The issue of what to do with the severly mentallly ill is an extremely diifficult one. While there were certainly budgetary motives for de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, it is also true that state mental hospitals were often hell-holes, as has been well documented in books and movies. The de-institutionalization movement started in response to those abuses, with the idea that the de-institutionalized would be treated in community settings. However, the mentally ill often believe they don’t need treatment, and ensuring they stay on meds is not a trivial undertaking.In Loughner’s case he was kicked out of community college and his parents were told to get him a mental health evaluation before he could return. Did they? Since he did not return to school, it seems perhaps they didn’t. This, despite his mother being a county employee and likely having pretty good health insurance. But at least the college learned from Virginia Tech and protected the students and faculty.That left him out in the community. In that case, what can law enforcement do? The answer, as you noted, is very little. It is almost impossible to civilly commit someone, barring an actual act of violence, which Loughner had not committed until last Saturday. To blame the Sheriff, for political motive,s is astounding, given that he is bound by the law.So, regardless of what we do, there will be disturbed individuals out there. What we don’t have to accept is that there will be ARMED disturbed individuals. I am well aware of the 2nd Amendment. However, the laws forbidding convicted felons from owning guns have long been upheld as constitutional. While among those are certainly violent, dangerous people, they also include many non-violent offenders. So, someone who wrote a few bad checks can be denied a gun, while a raving lunatic is free to accumulate an arsenal. At a minimum, there needs to be a provision that someone thrown out of school or let go from a job for serious mental illness be denied guns and ammo. Such individuals would, of course, be free to go to court and show why they were not a risk to society, but until they can do that, they should be barred.It’s really preposterous that the law can require us to practically strip naked to get on an airplane, yet countenance armed lunatics roaming the streets.

    The NRA has for several years fought hard against any law prohibiting mentally disturbed individuals from owning guns.

  30. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 11, 2011 at 10:20 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Ken: Way to go Mr. Obsessive!!! 30 lines of quote for two lines of comment!!! Why don’t you get counseling for why you can’t comment without having to quote the whole thing. “Quote is NOT the same thing as “Reply” in some places. If you want to address a person, why not just say “To ABC” or something??? Trees are dying in the rain forest because you refuse to change your ways.

    Plus, I see some of you Obots are still being REPREHENSIBLE in trying politicize the Tucson Massacre. I guess Obama taught you well, about being SLIMY being OK as long as it is for political gain.Like I said in my latest Internet Article, Westboro Baptist Church will probably give you some tips!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  31. gorefan says:
    January 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm  (Quote)

    Here is a change of pace.

    John R. Vile in his book, “The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of American Founding” writes,

    “James R. Stoner, Jr. has identified four ways in which common law influenced the U.S. Constitution. Consistent with some of the discussions at the Convention examined above, he first observes that the common law provided some of the language of the document. He specifically cites the provisions related to habeas corpus, ex post facto laws, the provision that an individual be “natural born,” and the term “good behavior” (2003, 17). He believes that, unless otherwise stated, the presumption was that such words would continue to maintain their existing meaning.“

    Why is this significant. Besides being the Chair of the Department of Government and a professor of political science at Louisiana State University, Dr. Stoner is the Professor of Charity at Beck University.

    So maybe this is why Glenn Beck laughs at the birthers. When the issue came up, he called Professor Stoner to get his thoughts. And Dr. Stoner told him, the President was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

  32. Black Lion says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:11 pm  (Quote)

    Missed with the attention on the shooting in AZ was this tidbit regarding Andy Martin from the Post and Fail….It looks like he is claiming that some of his history was falsified and is blaming Wikpedia for that….Below are some of the relevant excerpts from the article….

    “On December 27, 2010, The Post & Email reported that Andy Martin would be announcing his candidacy for the office of President of the United States for 2012. Martin had planned to make the announcement in Chicago, but the location was changed due to a snowstorm which grounded flights and closed many airports in the Northeast.

    Martin has been an outspoken critic of Barack Hussein Obama and has questioned his stated birthplace, religion, background and eligibility for the presidency.

    Of his decision to run for President, Martin stated:

    I want to thank Hawai’i Governor Neal [sic] Abercrombie for motivating me to make a final decision to run. Abercrombie’s Christmas Eve attacks on Birthers’ were disgraceful. (link below) While I am not a reluctant candidate I am not particularly looking ahead to criss-crossing the nation.
    …………….

    On December 29, The Post & Email asked Mr. Martin if he would be willing to release his long-form birth certificate, information about his parents and their citizenship, and anything else that would prove that he is a “natural born Citizen” consistent with the constitutional requirements to serve as president.

    On January 2, 2011, Mr. Martin responded:

    We have had a couple of more requests similar to yours to release personal data. I strongly support the concept. However, I believe that the overall goal of making Obama release information in his case is better served by making my information available as part of a reciprocal agreement with other candidates including Obama. Premature release on my part does not serve the larger cause of getting Obama to comply. In other words, we are working to obtain release of all candidates’ information as part of a larger strategy.

    In the past I have made my personal information available and no one else followed through.

    Personally I would welcome the adoption of a statute requiring release, so that all candidates would then be on the same level playing field. Candidate releases should not come individually but as part of an overall plan. Unlike Barack Obama, which is an unusual name, identity theft is a very real problem for lesser known candidates with more common names. I was recently the victim of an identity theft incident that has made me more cautious in this regard.
    ………….

    On January 7, 2011, a reader of The Post & Email sent a Wikipedia link which referenced a person by the name of “Anthony Robert Martin-Trigona,” aka “Andy Martin.” The information provided there appears to this writer to contain content which would not normally be included in a factual news summary. While some of the information coincides with that which Martin has presented, the Wikipedia article falsely claims that “Hawaii…does not use long-form birth certificates.” However, a researcher last summer filmed a video of a person requesting and paying $10.00 for a copy of her long-form birth certificate at the Hawaii Department of Health.

    Martin’s response to our inquiry regarding the Wikipedia summary reads:

    We have sued Wikipedia alleging that their claims about me are fraudulent. The case is pending in the Circuit Court of Sangamon County, Illinois. I think we even posted a copy of the lawsuit on the Internet last year. Wikipedia is a tax-exempt pro-Obama smear organization that has been exposed as supporting Obama by censoring news of his past and seeking to defame his opposition. I would be very, very careful about dealing with anyone who is seeking to have you rely on Wikipedia. They are probably Obamabots who are seeking to undermine your efforts.

    Looks like Obama is very worried about my candidacy if he is attacking me already.

    Please feel free to publish this response to your inquiry.

    Andy Martin

    A New York Times article from October 2008 asserted that Martin had started “false rumors” about Barack Hussein Obama’s background and that “Obama…is Christian.” However, since that time, there have been credible reports that Obama has himself stated that he is a Muslim.

    The author of the New York Times article shows no proof of his claims, instead criticizing Fox News for having “allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government” during an appearance on the show “Hannity’s America.” Some of the links provided in the article lead to general topics rather than supporting references for the writer’s specific statements. No documentation is provided to support such contentions as “In the 1990s, Mr. Martin was jailed in a case in Florida involving a physical altercation.”

    The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty. Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/08/presidential-candidate-andy-martin-responds-to-requests-for-eligibility-proof/#comments

  33. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:12 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: Here is a change of pace.John R. Vile in his book, “The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of American Founding” writes,“James R. Stoner, Jr. has identified four ways in which common law influenced the U.S. Constitution. Consistent with some of the discussions at the Convention examined above, he first observes that the common law provided some of the language of the document. He specifically cites the provisions related to habeas corpus, ex post facto laws, the provision that an individual be “natural born,” and the term “good behavior” (2003, 17). He believes that, unless otherwise stated, the presumption was that such words would continue to maintain their existing meaning.“Why is this significant. Besides being the Chair of the Department of Government and a professor of political science at Louisiana State University, Dr. Stoner is the Professor of Charity at Beck University.So maybe this is why Glenn Beck laughs at the birthers. When the issue came up, he called Professor Stoner to get his thoughts. And Dr. Stoner told him, the President was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

    Oh but you know Gorefan this can’t be right because his name is Dr. Stoner and we know all university folks are elitist stoners who make up their own facts tee hee. Okay yeah there goes imitating them.

  34. Black Lion says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm  (Quote)

    And of course the articles are still coming out trying to shift the blame of the AZ shooter and make him seem like some sort of liberal or “left winger”….They focus on the books by Hitler and Marx and neglect to mention the ones by Ayn Rand….

    “At the direction of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Obama Administration and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) had established a profile for what they call “potential domestic terrorists” of grave concern in the DHS Intel Report titled “Rightwing Extremism.”
    ………………

    In short, Loughner has a screw loose, and his Internet activities demonstrate an increasing level of mental disorder in the weeks and months leading up to his actions in Tucson on January 8th. But he in no way fits the Obama administration’s current profile for rightwing Tea Party terrorist. Quite the contrary, actually…

    Well-known leftwing blog The Daily KOS has reportedly pulled a recent posting calling for the targeting of Democrat members of Congress who voted against ObamaCare and other leftwing agenda items. Giffords was one of those targets, – Congresswoman Giffords Is Dead To Me – says Daily KOS, only two days before shooting… (Daily KOS has since pulled the posting)
    ……………………

    It isn’t Rush Limbaugh who called for violent armed revolution in America, but rather leftwing hero and Pulitzer finalist Ted Rall.

    Maybe Obama’s DHS should reconsider its definition of “domestic terrorist?” I am ultra conservative, which means I oppose extremism at both ends of the political spectrum and I am for peaceful political solutions. Loughner and I share nothing in common.

    While at it, the left should redefine its concept of “hate.” Opposing lawlessness is not an act of “hate.” Supporting the rule of law and upholding the Constitution is an act of patriotism, not an act of “hate.”
    _________________________________________

    Interesting are the comments….

    Billie says:
    Monday, January 10, 2011 at 10:21 PM
    The hypocracy is amazing from the Obots. Over at the quote Native and Natural Born Citizen unquote they are talking about hunting birthers like animals in season. So why don’t they get a visit from the DHS? Look out the bit where they are “bagging birthers” on this page.

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/six-people-shot-and-killed-and-18-injured/

    Bev says:
    Tuesday, January 11, 2011 at 11:40 AM
    I believe this is why this all happened.
    http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/
    ————————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: I have found the EU Times to be unreliable at best.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/10/arizona-shooter-did-not-fit-dhs-domestic-terror-profile/#comments

  35. Majority Will says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:20 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: Missed with the attention on the shooting in AZ was this tidbit regarding Andy Martin from the Post and Fail….It looks like he is claiming that some of his history was falsified and is blaming Wikpedia for that….Below are some of the relevant excerpts from the article….“On December 27, 2010, The Post & Email reported that Andy Martin would be announcing his candidacy for the office of President of the United States for 2012.Martin had planned to make the announcement in Chicago, but the location was changed due to a snowstorm which grounded flights and closed many airports in the Northeast.Martin has been an outspoken critic of Barack Hussein Obama and has questioned his stated birthplace, religion, background and eligibility for the presidency.Of his decision to run for President, Martin stated:I want to thank Hawai’i Governor Neal [sic] Abercrombie for motivating me to make a final decision to run. Abercrombie’s Christmas Eve attacks on Birthers’ were disgraceful. (link below) While I am not a reluctant candidate I am not particularly looking ahead to criss-crossing the nation.
    …………….On December 29, The Post & Email asked Mr. Martin if he would be willing to release his long-form birth certificate, information about his parents and their citizenship, and anything else that would prove that he is a “natural born Citizen” consistent with the constitutional requirements to serve as president.On January 2, 2011, Mr. Martin responded:We have had a couple of more requests similar to yours to release personal data. I strongly support the concept. However, I believe that the overall goal of making Obama release information in his case is better served by making my information available as part of a reciprocal agreement with other candidates including Obama. Premature release on my part does not serve the larger cause of getting Obama to comply. In other words, we are working to obtain release of all candidates’ information as part of a larger strategy.In the past I have made my personal information available and no one else followed through.Personally I would welcome the adoption of a statute requiring release, so that all candidates would then be on the same level playing field. Candidate releases should not come individually but as part of an overall plan. Unlike Barack Obama, which is an unusual name, identity theft is a very real problem for lesser known candidates with more common names. I was recently the victim of an identity theft incident that has made me more cautious in this regard.
    ………….On January 7, 2011, a reader of The Post & Email sent a Wikipedia link which referenced a person by the name of “Anthony Robert Martin-Trigona,” aka “Andy Martin.”The information provided there appears to this writer to contain content which would not normally be included in a factual news summary.While some of the information coincides with that which Martin has presented, the Wikipedia article falsely claims that “Hawaii…does not use long-form birth certificates.”However, a researcher last summer filmed a video of a person requesting and paying $10.00 for a copy of her long-form birth certificate at the Hawaii Department of Health.Martin’s response to our inquiry regarding the Wikipedia summary reads:We have sued Wikipedia alleging that their claims about me are fraudulent. The case is pending in the Circuit Court of Sangamon County, Illinois. I think we even posted a copy of the lawsuit on the Internet last year. Wikipedia is a tax-exempt pro-Obama smear organization that has been exposed as supporting Obama by censoring news of his past and seeking to defame his opposition. I would be very, very careful about dealing with anyone who is seeking to have you rely on Wikipedia. They are probably Obamabots who are seeking to undermine your efforts.Looks like Obama is very worried about my candidacy if he is attacking me already.Please feel free to publish this response to your inquiry.Andy MartinA New York Times article from October 2008 asserted that Martin had started “false rumors” about Barack Hussein Obama’s background and that “Obama…is Christian.” However, since that time, there have been credible reports that Obama has himself stated that he is a Muslim.The author of the New York Times article shows no proof ofhis claims, instead criticizing Fox News for having “allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government” during an appearance on the show “Hannity’s America.”Some of the links provided in the article lead to general topics rather than supporting references for the writer’s specific statements.No documentation is provided to support such contentions as “In the 1990s, Mr. Martin was jailed in a case in Florida involving a physical altercation.”The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty.Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/08/presidential-candidate-andy-martin-responds-to-requests-for-eligibility-proof/#comments

    We might as well start calling him Andy Martyr then.

    Another deranged narcissist like Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.

  36. Black Lion says:
    January 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm  (Quote)

    WND is at it again….

    No, Really: WND’s Klein Tries to Blame AZ Shooting On Bill Ayers
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    It appears that selectively quoting from Jared Loughner’s reading list was only the beginning of the misinformation and outright falsehoods WorldNetDaily’s Aaron Klein intends to peddle about the Arizona shooting.

    Because apparently Bill Ayers must be worked into this story somehow, a Jan. 10 article by Klein begins:

    Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday’s Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama, WND has learned.

    The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers.

    What is missing from Klein’s article is any evidence that the curriculum at the high school Loughter attended is “communist,” related to ’60s radicalism, or even “liberal.”

    Without any facts to back up his implication that Ayers taught Loughter how to be a terrorist — and because Klein and his research assistant Brenda J. Elliott, who also helped Klein with his factually dubious smear book on President Obama, couldn’t be bothered to find out what actually is being taught — this is yet another smearpiece rehasing the same tired claims about how Ayers is a unrepentant terrorist and, of course, a close personal friend of President Obama.

    This is just another reminder of just how sleazy a reporter Klein is — and how sleazy WND and Joseph Farah are for employing someone who engages in such dishonest reporting.

    Meanwhile, Klein’s original misleading claim has been passed on to others on the staff. A Jan. 10 WND article by Drew Zahn states that “Loughner also listed on his YouTube channel among his favorite books Karl Marx’s ‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf,’ casting further doubt on the notion that he was an angered tea-party type.” Like Klein, Zahn fails to note the existence of other books on Loughner’s list, including several anti-totalitarian books such as Ayn Rand’s “We the Living.”

    Corsi Joins WND’s Ariz. Shooting Misinfo Parade
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Somebody, it seems, doesn’t want Aaron Klein to have all the fun in slinging false and misleading claims at WorldNetDaily about the Arizona shooting. Jerome Corsi wants a piece of that action, too.

    Corsi jumped into the fray with a Jan. 9 article featuring the bizarre assertion that “the YouTube website of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords suggests she subscribed to the YouTube channel of her suspected attempted assassin, Jarred Loughner, at some point before the shooting incident.” While his article contains a lot of screenshots of web pages, none of them prove that, as Corsi later stated, “Gifford subscribed to Loughner’s website since Oct. 25, 2010.”

    Even later, Corsi contradicts himself: “A cached version of the Giffords website, dated Dec. 26, shows there was no link to the suspect’s channel on that date.” But rather than accepting the logical explanation that Giffords did not subscribe to Loughter’s page at the time and only did so after the shooting, Corsi speculated that this lack of evidence was “giving rise to speculation that the site was changed after that point, or possibly even hacked.”

    The only source Corsi cites for any of this is speculation from right-wing Muslim-hater (and former Newsmax columnist) Pam Geller.

    As if that weren’t enough, Corsi throws in a completely false claim, that “is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford’s election campaign in 2007.” In fact, all that is known — as Corsi acknowledges at the end of his article — is that “in Loughner’s home was found a form letter from Giffords’ office, thanking him for attending a 2007 event.” That is not the same thing as having “worked for Gifford’s election campaign.”

    But then, this is the same guy whose vaunted documents he obtained during a trip to Kenya to find something to smear President Obama with were clearly fakes (not that Corsi has ever acknowledged that fact, mind you).

    If that bit of incompetence wasn’t enough, Corsi then tries to present himself as an expert on punk rock, asserting in a Jan. 10 article that Loughner “may have been inspired by the radical leftist punk-rock band Anti-Flag, one of his favorite bands.”

    Essentially, all Corsi has done here is read a tweet by someone who claimed Anti-Flag was one of Loughner’s favorite bands, found a music lyrics website (he even links to it) and copied-and-pasted from selected songs. That, apparently, is Corsi’s idea of journalism.

    for good measure, Corsi also throws is a gratuitous, unsupported slam on an unrelated figure he apparently despises. Noting that Reuters Media’s Anthony DeRosa was corresponding viaTwitter with the Loughner friend who made the claim about Anti-Flag, Corsi added that DeRosa “has had a history of tweeting continuing attacks on Fox News and Fox News talk show hosts Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly, as well as a wide range of conservative media and political figures.” He offers no evidence to back up this claim, and it’s immaterial to his attack on music he undoubtedly doesn’t like.

    DeRosa, by the way, is not even a journalist, as Corsi suggests; he describes himself as “a Proposition Leader at Reuters Media working on strategic partnerships in print, online and broadcast media.”

    But then, Corsi’s own journalistic standards are pretty abysmal, so it’s unlikely he knows the difference.

    UPDATE: For a much more responsible and less deliberately inflammatory take on the same subject, the Washington Post examines another song linked to Loughner and, unlike Corsi, talks to actual experts on the issue.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  37. Jules says:
    January 11, 2011 at 6:36 pm  (Quote)

    I have just received a vault copy of my birth certificate with letter of exemplification. I plan to have it apostilled in case I ever need to present my birth certificate in the UK.

    I have discovered an anomaly that would surely lead any birther to allege that my certificate is a fraud. Both my vault copy and abstract copy indicate that the “date filed” is 13 days after I was born. However, the date corresponding to the signature of the hospital administrator is more than one month after the date of filing.

    I would be curious to know the procedure by which the certificate is filed prior to the document being signed. Perhaps Dr C can shed some light on the matter when he gets back.

  38. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 11, 2011 at 8:11 pm  (Quote)

    Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/the-jared-secret-democrats-are-terrified-of/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  39. Northland10 says:
    January 11, 2011 at 8:18 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion quoting a confused birther: Well-known leftwing blog The Daily KOS has reportedly pulled a recent posting calling for the targeting of Democrat members of Congress who voted against ObamaCare and other leftwing agenda items. Giffords was one of those targets

    What are they talking about? As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus. She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border). It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

  40. gorefan says:
    January 11, 2011 at 10:28 pm  (Quote)

    For the practicing lawyers and even if your not, I thought you might find this interesting:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=law%20school&st=cse

  41. Rickey says:
    January 11, 2011 at 10:37 pm  (Quote)

    Northland10:
    What are they talking about?As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus.She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border).It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

    Back in the summer of 2008 Daily Kos made a list of the Democrats in Congress who had voted for the bill which protected AT&T and other telecoms from liability for providing the government with Internet and phone records of customers without warrants. As I recall, the Kos article listed those Democrats (one of whom was Rep. Giffords) as potential “targets” for primary challenges. There were no cross-hairs or bulls-eyes. It had nothing to do with Obama, who of course had not even been nominated yet.

  42. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 11, 2011 at 11:18 pm  (Quote)

    Northland10:
    What are they talking about?As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus.She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border).It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

    Dailykos also never pulled the entry. But yes they do make things up as they go along. Even more chilling is this poll from CBS:

    Do you think it is ever justified for citizens to take violent action against the government, or is it never justified?
    Republican 28% yes, 64% no
    Democrat 11% yes, 81% no
    Independent 11% yes, 81% no

    While a smile fringe of independents and democrats believe its justified over a quarter of republicans believe it is justified.

  43. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 11, 2011 at 11:59 pm  (Quote)

    Jules: I would be curious to know the procedure by which the certificate is filed prior to the document being signed. Perhaps Dr C can shed some light on the matter when he gets back.

    Your example is certainly odd. The only normal situation where this might happen is if the certificate were filed without the required signature, and then sent back to get it signed.

    If there is one thing you can be sure of, every jurisdiction has their own little quirks of procedure and usage of terms. I made a good living dealing with all of this mess.

  44. US Citizen says:
    January 12, 2011 at 12:18 am  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/the-jared-secret-democrats-are-terrified-of/Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Sorry, but you can either be a reporter (an unbiased reporter of news) or a political commentator.
    Since you’re “firing back”, one can assume you’re the later.

    You’re too young to remember this reference, but I can’t help saying “Squeeky Fromm, Girl reporter” the same way that Dan Aykroyd said “Fred Garvin, Male prostitute” on SNL.

  45. James M says:
    January 12, 2011 at 2:30 am  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm:

    Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!

    Partisan battle? Anger and suggestions of violent revolution are not “parties”. You are the one claiming sides in a partisan context, and you are coming down aligned with people who talk about things like violent overthrow of government, secession, elected officials being unlawful usurpers, and so forth. This isn’t a “partisan battle”, it’s an observation of the general tone, increasingly bellicose, that contemporary politics have taken in the past decade.

    I do not honestly believe there are enough dwellers on that fringe to constitute a “partisan” *anything.*

  46. obsolete says:
    January 12, 2011 at 3:24 am  (Quote)

    I’ll save you visiting the link the link to the fake Squeeky’s blog- here is a summary.
    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  47. Majority Will says:
    January 12, 2011 at 3:25 am  (Quote)

    James M:
    Partisan battle?Anger and suggestions of violent revolution are not “parties”.You are the one claiming sides in a partisan context, and you are coming down aligned with people whotalk about things like violent overthrow of government, secession, elected officials being unlawful usurpers, and so forth.This isn’t a “partisan battle”, it’s an observation of the general tone, increasingly bellicose, that contemporary politics have taken in the past decade.I do not honestly believe there are enough dwellers on that fringe to constitute a “partisan” *anything.*

    I honestly don’t understand why you’re still responding to and encouraging the deranged, drunken freak. As if openly and unashamedly promoting political assassination wasn’t bad enough but mainly because any sane person here can predict any and every single response from this needy, spamming birther troll.

    Seriously, why? Entertainment?

  48. Lupin says:
    January 12, 2011 at 4:07 am  (Quote)

    FWIW we had a couple of articles about the Tucson shooting in my local rag. (I’m referring to L’INDEPENDENT, a somewhat apolitical regional newspaper that covers most of Southern France.)

    Amusingly enough (in a dark sort of way), it was sandwiched between the other violent troubles in Tunisia and Ivory Coast. The unwanted parallel (I’m sure) was “oh look the savages are at it again.”

    The editorial comments explained to the Average French Reader in laborious terms the special “gun situation” in the US, sort of like the Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy explains Vogon poetry. We all have our share of lunatics; it’s just that here, they’re not armed.

    I suppose it’s like alcohol: if we were really serious about reducing deaths by drunk driving, we’d do something about alcohol consumption; but since that would be arguably worse or more difficult, then we accept that the price to pay is x many deaths. Same with guns in the US: massacres are just the price you’re willing to pay for that “freedom”.

    The article quoted President Obama and the local Sheriff’s comments, but without making any connection between political discourse and the shooting; I myself remain unconvinced on that issue.

  49. The Magic M says:
    January 12, 2011 at 5:55 am  (Quote)

    > if we were really serious about reducing deaths by drunk driving, we’d do something about alcohol consumption; but since that would be arguably worse or more difficult, then we accept that the price to pay is x many deaths

    Besides, history has shown that isolated incidents (such as the AZ shooting) can never be prevented by “simply” broadly outlawing the technical cause (guns, alcohol, drugs, …). No matter how outlawed, there will always be people who get a hold of the stuff and abuse it to the harm of others.
    (My home country Germany has very strict laws towards gun ownership, yet we have our occasional shooting massacre every other year – if only because some deranged juvenile breaks into his father’s rifle compartment and then runs amok in his school.)

    But of course the birthers are already heavily spinning their “it was a false-flag event staged to prepare taking away the 2nd amendment” stuff…

  50. Jules says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:16 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Your example is certainly odd. The only normal situation where this might happen is if the certificate were filed without the required signature, and then sent back to get it signed.

    If there is one thing you can be sure of, every jurisdiction has their own little quirks of procedure and usage of terms. I made a good living dealing with all of this mess.

    I have a theory as to what happened. I have been told by my parents that they planned to give me a different middle name and even had a hospital souvenir certificate which had the middle name that was originally intended, but that the middle name that they chose later went on the official birth certificate.

    My vault copy has the entry for “Date filed” field handwritten and “Original” is handwritten there as well. I suspect that the hospital did file a birth certificate with the middle name that my parents initially planned to give me and then submitted another when my parents changed their minds. If this is the case, however, then it does not explain why there is nothing in the “Information added or amended” field on my vault copy.

    Of course, the birther explanation for my certificate would be that my mother gave birth to me in Canada and then committed a massive fraud in New York to avoid having to bother getting a consular report of birth from the nearest US consulate.

  51. The Magic M says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:33 am  (Quote)

    > to avoid having to bother getting a consular report of birth from the nearest US consulate

    And to ensure you’ll become President 50 years later as they and the Marxist friends and foreign overlords had planned already decades before you were conceived. 😉

  52. Scientist says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:40 am  (Quote)

    Magic M- First, drunk driving fatalities HAVE fallen substantially since 1982-they are about 1/4 the rate they were in 1982 per mile driven.
    http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/drunk-driving-deaths-are-way-down-but/
    Part is due to the overall improved safety of cars, but part is also due to education efforts that have changed attitudes from “It’s a rite of passage, no big deal” to “It’s stupid and dangerous”. Groups of young people who go out drinking routinely appoint a designated driver these days.

    As far as guns, the fact that even with strict gun laws, shootings by crazed persons can still happen is not the point. It is an undeniable fact that the frequency of such events is lower in countries that have stricter gun laws. No one is proposing banning guns. The point is to make it harder for the mentally unbalanced to get them. Of course we can never make it impossible, but I still lock my house even though I know that skilled burglars can defeat any locks.

  53. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 10:07 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: Back in the summer of 2008 Daily Kos made a list of the Democrats in Congress who had voted for the bill which protected AT&T and other telecoms from liability for providing the government with Internet and phone records of customers without warrants. As I recall, the Kos article listed those Democrats (one of whom was Rep. Giffords) as potential “targets” for primary challenges. There were no cross-hairs or bulls-eyes. It had nothing to do with Obama, who of course had not even been nominated yet.

    Rickey, you are correct….But when would the truth ever stop a WND or right wing narrative it they can sell it in a way to discredit people they don’t like….

    Bozell Pushes Ariz. Shooting Falsehoods
    Topic: Media Research Center

    The Media Research Center’s Brent Bozell was clearly in a lying mood during his Jan. 10 interview with Newsmax to discuss news coverage of the Arizona shooting.

    “Note how quickly the New York Times came out with an editorial calling for the Fairness Doctrine as a result of this,” Bozell said. But that didn’t happen — in fact, a search of the Times’ website indicates no mention of “fairness doctrine” anywhere in the Times in the past 30 days.

    The closest a Times editorial published between the shooting and Bozell’s interview came to discussing speech issues regarding the shooting is a Jan. 10 editorial that called for “quieting the voices of intolerance,” which is not even remotely the same thing as “calling for the Fairness Doctrine.”

    Bozell also asserted that “The Daily Kos whackjob website has got targets over faces that they don’t like.” Not true either — in fact, Daily Kos has issued no graphics containing a bulls-eye image regarding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, one victim of the shooting.

    Bozell, by the way, is the same guy who is complaining that conseratives are being unfairly maligned over the shooting.

  54. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 10:14 am  (Quote)

    WND Using Massacre to Sell Books
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Lest anyone actually think that WorldNetDaily puts principles before money, note the promotional ad inserted into this Jan. 10 WND article:

    “Who really inspired Jared Lee Loughner? Read Richard Wurmbrand’s Marx & Satan to find out.”

    The link goes to the page for the “Marx & Satan” book at the WND online store.

    That’s right — WND invoking the alleged perpetrator of the Arizona massacre to sell books.

    How utterly craven can one be?

    UPDATE: WND continues the cravenness with an article-length plug arguing “the biblical case for armed self-defense,” calling it the “common-sense, tried-and-true biblical and constitutional prescription” to “a man-made disaster like the Arizona massacre.”

    WND’s article…

    “The American Patriot Foundation has received dozens of threatening phone message, e-mails and letters during “birther” Army officer Terrence Lakin’s legal proceedings the past few months, including two letters that view the words “GOP” and “Birthers” through a sniper scope.

    An APF official claims the threats are inspired by media attacks on people who question President Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve in the White House, even as many media figures are attempting to blame the Tucson massacre on harsh rhetoric from Republicans and conservatives.

    “I’ve been called a subversive and an enemy of the state, not to mention moron, insufferable little b-tch and a lot of other similar nasty comments,” APF’s Margaret Hemenway told WND. “I write a lot of them back to tell them that e-mail rage, like road rage, is neither healthy nor adult behavior and remind them it is the fundamental obligation of citizenship to support the U.S. Constitution.”
    ……….

    Hemenway sent the following letter, postmarked in Columbus, Ohio, to the U.S. Post Office authorities to be investigated because it contained a direct threat:

    “This is to inform you that LTC Larkin (sic) is a F—— COWARD who should be put in front of a firing squad and shot. If I see his a– on the streets of Washington I will save the government the expense of a trial, I’ll dip a bullet in s— and shoot him in the head. This f— off deserves to die on the streets of America.”
    …………………..

    The incendiary rhetoric and threats aimed at “birthers” could be inspired by over-the-top rhetoric by some figures in the media, in Hemenway’s view.

    “I’m just sick of the vitriol and hate mongering of the liberal media, decrying ‘birthers’ as whack jobs, lunatics, fringe, etc. Their venom has encouraged this type of email, phone calls and letter threats,” Hemenway told WND.

    Hemenway cited CNN host Anderson Cooper and a guest on one of Cooper’s shows, commentator Jeffrey Toobin.

    “Toobin called us a ‘racist, freak, lunatic fringe’ on Cooper’s show,” said Hemenway, who added that Cooper himself has directed abusive language at people who question Obama’s eligibility. “You don’t think this encourages attacks against us? They deserve to be held accountable for their comments.”

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249673#ixzz1Apm8YJwR

  55. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 12, 2011 at 10:42 am  (Quote)

    Sarah Palin addresses the REPREHENSIBLE Democratic GHOULS who try to get votes, shut down free speech, and raise campaign funds off the poor dead people in Tucson. For what it is worth, wiki defines a GHOUL as:

    “The Arabian ghoul is a desert-dwelling, shapeshifting demon that can assume the guise of an animal, especially a hyena. It lures unwary travellers into the desert wastes to slay and devour them. The creature also preys on young children, robs graves, drinks blood, steals coins and eats the dead.”

    http://vimeo.com/18698532

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  56. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 11:18 am  (Quote)

    Good article over at Slate…

    “There’s something offensive, as well as pointless, about the politically charged inquiry into what might have been swirling inside the head of Jared Loughner. We hear that the accused shooter read The Communist Manifesto and liked flag-burning videos—good news for the right. Wait—he was a devotee of Ayn Rand and favored the gold standard, so he was a right-winger after all. Some assassinations embody an ideology, however twisted. Based on what we know so far, the Tucson killings look like more like politically tinged schizophrenia.

    “To call his crime an attempted assassination is to acknowledge that it appears to have had a political and not merely a personal context. That context wasn’t Islamic radicalism, Puerto Rican independence, or anarcho-syndicalism. It was the anti-government, pro-gun, xenophobic populism that flourishes in the dry and angry climate of Arizona. Extremist shouters didn’t program Loughner, in some mechanistic way, to shoot Gabrielle Giffords. But the Tea Party movement did make it appreciably more likely that a disturbed person like Loughner would react, would be able to react, and would not be prevented from reacting, in the crazy way he did.

    At the core of the far right’s culpability is its ongoing attack on the legitimacy of U.S. government—a venomous campaign not so different from the backdrop to the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Then it was focused on “government bureaucrats” and the ATF. This time it has been more about Obama’s birth certificate and health care reform. In either case, it expresses the dangerous idea that the federal government lacks valid authority. It is this, rather than violent rhetoric per se, that is the most dangerous aspect of right-wing extremism.”

    “First you rile up psychotics with inflammatory language about tyranny, betrayal, and taking back the country. Then you make easy for them to get guns. But if you really want trouble, you should also make it hard for them to get treatment for mental illness. I don’t know if Loughner had health insurance, but he falls into a pool of people who often go uninsured—not young enough to be covered by parents (until the health-care bill’s coverage of twentysomethings kicked in a few months ago), not old enough for Medicare, not poor enough for Medicaid. If such a person happens to have a history of mental illness, he will be effectively uninsurable. To get treatment, he actually has to commit a crime. If Republicans succeed in repealing the Obama health care bill, that’s how it will remain.”

    http://www.slate.com/id/2280711

  57. James M says:
    January 12, 2011 at 11:22 am  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm:

    Sarah Palin addresses the REPREHENSIBLE Democratic GHOULS who try to get votes, shut down free speech, and raise campaign funds off the poor dead people in Tucson.

    Sarah Palin is talking about herself while invoking some really horrid language from the worst period of anti-semitism, and Rep. Giffords isn’t even out of ICU.

    She’s really not doing herself any favors.

  58. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    And from the insane rantings of Lame Cherry….

    “The problem in this is Democrats, from DC to that Pima County pinhead attention whore Sheriff who are giving Matt Drudge days of headlines to give a stage to this intellectual actor.

    Jared Loughner is delighted and well pleased for this attention as proven by his mug shot. He has manipulated and gotten his 15 minutes of fame, proving he is more of a player in this than the media manipulators. He is a sociopath who is being fed the venom of the world and gets high on the bite.

    It is not just Democrats who are making political gain in this who are the threat to America, but the real threat are these liberals who are deliberately giving Loughner the attention, knowing in profile that there are 1000 Jared Loughners across America just percolating in their dark rooms, sitting in their underwear and plotting their major break on the silver screen.

    This is the criminal aspect of this in Democrats just as they staged the Owens and Frank event about the Tea Party in “q**er” and “ni**er” words never recorded or heard, these same Democrats, which include Barack Hussein Obama, are begging that several dozen of these white intellectuals of the left rise up and grab their own attention in violence to further the Obama cause.
    …….

    What do you think Napolitano and Holder are going to do, but use these incited attacks to deflect from Obama’s crimes and further the regime’s crackdown on Americans.
    Congress already postponed a vote on Obamacrypt, because of this Gabrielle Giffords event.

    America is frozen by one sociopath in Arizona prison and another sociopath in the Oval Office is plotting with Val-erie Jarrett in the war room in how this all can be moved to advantage.”

    http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-loughner-is-not-threat.html

  59. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm  (Quote)

    More loony birthers from the Post and Fail…This time they print some letter from that a birther wingnut sent to the FL AG….

    “Congratulations on your recent victorious election! I voted for you, and Messrs. Scott and Putnam. What compels me to write today is my duty to refer to you a most serious and egregious crime against our state. Attached by paper clip, please find today’s Certified Copy of a Tacit Admission of Ineligibility (the “Confession”) filed in Pinellas county: Connerat vs. Obama [522009SC005522XXSCSC]. There was no appeal of this case or this notice; therefore, such damning evidence must be presumed veritable. It is unassailable. University of Virginia colleague, and ‘guardian of the keg,’ Ken Cuccinelli was mailed a Certified Copy, dated 10/18/2010. U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson granted approval to file another Certified Copy of such document, dated 3/18/2010, in the highly-publicized case, Virginia v. Sebelius (see Docket entries 92, 93, 94). I also filed a Certified Copy, dated 10/18/2010 in the sister’ Florida lawsuit (Docket entry 140), of which you must certainly be aware. Although my Motion for leave to file an amicus brief was denied, the “Confession” remains. These two tacit admissions, filed in two distinct circuits, incriminate the usurper at the federal level; this referral concerns his crime against Florida.

    In Article I, Section 20 of our Florida Constitution, the crime of Treason is defined. Logically, if Barack is engaged in Treason against the United States, he commits Treason against Florida. Being saluted, flying in Air Force jets, speaking in front of a podium with the Seal, and giving speeches to a joint sessions of Congress does not a President make. Pam, via Boolean logic, you know as well as I do that if one is ineligible under Law, then he is not President. Therefore, you and Ken may now have a different tack in these lawsuits – the “no man might buy or sell” ‘Law’ is void ab initio, for it was never validly enacted, signed by one without authority. It is counterfeit.

    Although Mr. Scott’s cabinet swore an allegiance to the government of the United States, the presumption is that such bound is to a lawful government. You are my Attorney General, the first female (but not the last…you have inspired many!) to hold such esteemed Office, in Florida. It is incumbent upon you to review this referral. I will be happy to give testimony to a Grand Jury, although if you decide to prosecute, you’ll get the indictment warranted, with or without my assistance. Other People and States are similarly afflicted, yet we must focus on the following questions: Is this “usurper of the kind most vile, injuring not with the Sword, but with the slogan and smile” our lawful President? Is a violation of Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution tantamount to a crime against Florida? State Statute 905.34(7) gives the Grand Jury (due process) jurisdiction over “Any crime involving, or resulting in, fraud or deceit upon any person.” Millions of Floridians were unwittingly deceived in the 2008 election. See my attached 2008 Armistice Day mandamus, never answered. Before the Electoral College met, I, for the People, demanded PROOF.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/11/letter-to-floridas-new-attorney-general-asks-that-the-state-constitution-be-honored/

    And in the comments a Post and Fail reader actually realizes that the writer is full of it…

    Philip Rand says:
    Wednesday, January 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM
    Although I am not a lawyer, I can definitely state that “tacit admission” does not work this way.

    You cannot just send someone a letter accusing him of something and if he doesn’t reply, consider that a “tacit admission” (in the legal sense) that the accusations are true.

    “Tacit admission” legally (as opposed to, maybe, politically) only works in a court case between plaintiff and defendant, meaning that if plaintiff alleges X and defendant does not deny such allegation, X is presumed to be admitted as true, thus a “tacit admission”.

    Outside of the plaintiff/defendant relation, such tacit admissions do not constitute proof in the legal sense.

    That Soetoro tacitly admitted his ineligibility in a political sense, that is another matter. But the article is talking about court-level proof and that’s where it is in error.
    ——————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: Mr. Connerate did take the matter to court.

  60. Black Lion says:
    January 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm  (Quote)

    And it seems like the Post and Fail is on a roll today with attacking the President…

    “When History details the Obama Presidency, how will it be written? If it’s written by Liberals, they may refer to him as the Great Hope of our time. If it is written by a Conservative, they may be nice and just say he was a man with no experience. However, if History really looks at all the facts, they may wonder why the People accepted this man at all.

    The facts about Obama have been hidden, sealed and erased, not only by Obama himself but by the media, Democrats and Republicans. If this and other articles survive the corruption of Obama and his followers, History may paint a different picture of the current Resident in Chief.

    Fact:

    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    Fact:

    A “natural born” citizen is any person born of US citizen parents (that’s two) in the U. S. mainland (includes Alaska and Hawaii) – think Ronald Reagan — in this case, there is no foreign entanglement via parentage AND there is no foreign entanglement via birthplace.

    Fact:

    Obama is not a “natural born” citizen because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject, as was Obama, “at birth.” The Obama Campaign describes Barack Obama Sr. as, “a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children.”

    Fact:

    All U. S. military personal and every other American under oath to protect and defend the U. S. Constitution will be duty bound to remove the fraudulent usurper. This situation is REGARDLESS of votes, electors, media blackouts, high profile embarrassments, state court decisions, supreme court actions or inaction, birth certificates real or forged, or any other documents — Obama can NOT LEGALLY BE The US President.

    No documentation is required. Everyone should understand and KNOW the answer to the question of what country is the country of which Obama was a natural born citizen. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Barry Obama, Barry Soetoro, or Barack Hussein Obama II, to be a natural born United States citizen. Obama can NOT POSSIBLY be a “natural born citizen” of the U. S. because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a subject of Great Britain and a citizen of Kenya.

    Fact:

    Obama’s first act as President, Executive Order 13489 banning release of any of his records.

    …………………………………………………

    Since the election of Obama, he has done more to divide this Country then he has to bring it closer. We are not just divided by Democrats and Republicans, we are considered a racist if we disagree with him or his policies. After the Ft. Hood shooting we were told not to jump to conclusions because the shooter was praising Allah, yet after the recent Tucson shooting, members of the Left and the media were blaming everyone from the Tea Party and Sarah Palin to Rush Limbaugh. He continued to divide us on the Ground Zero Mosque, the Arizona Immigration Issue, banning offshore drilling, ramming Obamacare down the throats of Americans and appointing all of his Socialist/Marxist Czars.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/11/are-there-traitors-among-us/

  61. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 12, 2011 at 3:00 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, and before you Obots work yourselves into a hysterical frenzy about Sarah Palin being anti-Semitic, here is Alan Dershowitz, who is a famous lawyer and Jewish about what Sarah said:

    “The term “blood libel” hastaken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although itshistorical origins were in theologically based false accusations against
    the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I
    myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of
    Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly
    nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what
    she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images
    may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The
    fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the
    propriety of using this widely used term.”

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  62. obsolete says:
    January 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm  (Quote)

    Everybody is doing a good job lately of ignoring fake Squeeky (the political assassin advocate).
    In case anyone thinks they may be missing something, here is a brand new summary of her web site posts to save you the trip over there:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  63. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Everybody is doing a good job lately of ignoring fake Squeeky (the political assassin advocate).
    In case anyone thinks they may be missing something, here is a brand new summary of her web site posts to save you the trip over there:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    I agree. I know it’s difficult to refrain from answering her inane nonsense, but a little self-control is all one needs

  64. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, I didn’t know I was being “ignored.” There is such a common lack of intelligent responses from here, that the silence and “nothing” seemed to blend together. But did you read this one??? I thought it was really good. Did you like it???

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/paul-krugman-joins-westboro-baptist-church/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  65. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 12, 2011 at 8:02 pm  (Quote)

    Why are birthers so clueless?

  66. Majority Will says:
    January 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Why are birthers so clueless?

    Some choose to be ignorant. The rest just come by it naturally. Bigotry and hatred drives them all.

  67. Arthur says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:15 pm  (Quote)

    Thank you Obsolete for encouraging posters to refrain from responding to the the thing from Texas. Let Xanthippe hector male beasts in some other part of the internet and leave us in peace.

  68. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:34 pm  (Quote)

    Your boss, Obama, just told all of you to behave yourselves and start talking better to people!!! But I won’t bother you until I finish writing this deeply philosophical thingy I am working on. And its OK if you don’t answer me, because I know how hard it is for you to address my really good arguments.

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  69. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Why are birthers so clueless?

    Because any friend they would call for a clue is equally clueless?

  70. obsolete says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:28 am  (Quote)

    Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  71. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:51 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Thanx for nothing, obsolete. 🙂 . Make sure you wash your computer out to get all the crap out of it. I suggest you do that after every time you go there.

  72. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:56 am  (Quote)

    If you don’t do that, the stench will eventually overpower you and send you into a coma

  73. Daniel says:
    January 13, 2011 at 1:50 am  (Quote)

    or into a birther blog

  74. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:06 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Obsolete, nice wrap up…As usual it was an article about nothing relevant or germane to any issue other than her innane thoughts and clueless views of life in general…..

  75. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:17 am  (Quote)

    The ConWeb Shrugged

    WorldNetDaily, Newsmax,and the Media Research Center want you to know that Marx and Hitler were on Jared Loughner’s reading list — but not that Ayn Rand is too. Plus: More ConWeb falsehoods, silliness and crassness about the Arizona shooting.
    By Terry Krepel
    Posted 1/13/2011
    ——————————————————————————–

    When news came that an assailant opened fire on an event being held by Democratic Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a grocery store in Tuscon, critically wounding the congresswoman and killing six others, the ConWeb sprung into action to figure out ways to prove the alleged shooter — identified at Jared Loughner — not only was not conservative but was somehow liberal.

    One method of doing so quickly stuck out: a list of books Loughner had posted to his YouTube profile.

    WorldNetDaily’s Aaron Klein was the first to pounce, declaring in a Jan. 8 article that “‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ were among the favorite reading materials of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in today’s fatal shooting that reportedly left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman.” He followed up the next day in “news analysis” by asking: “Are the news media deliberately disguising the reported liberal politics of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in yesterday’s fatal shooting that left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman?” As evidence, Klein highlighted “the men actually listed by Loughner as among his favorite authors, Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler,” linking to his article of the previous day.

    WND colleague Drew Zahn, in a Jan. 10 article, reinforced the story by stating that “Loughner also listed on his YouTube channel among his favorite books Karl Marx’s ‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf,’ casting further doubt on the notion that he was an angered tea-party type.”

    Much the same thing was happening over at Newsmax. A Jan. 9 article complained that “some Democrats and major media have moved to pin the blame for her attack on the tea party movement and conservatives like Sarah Palin, despite the fact that the shooter was both deranged and fascinated by leftwing politics.” Newsmax went on to state that “Loughner had identified among his favorite books ‘The Communist Manifesto’ by Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ and the fiction classic ‘One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ — hardly the reading list of a Palin supporter.”

    David Patten and Kathleen Walter wrote in a Jan. 10 article that “Loughner’s bizarre rants mention Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s Mein Kampf, but do not mention Palin, Fox News, the Tea Party, or other high profile conservatives such as host Glenn Beck or Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C.” Another Jan. 10 article by Patten, inveighing against the “backlash mounted against media outlets who blamed the shooting on inflammatory right-wing rhetoric,” similarly stated that “His online rants appeared to reflect a muddled, possibly left-wing viewpoint that embrace anarchy. Intellectually, his influences appeared to range from Karl Marx to Hitler’s Mein Kampf.”

    Even the Media Research Center bought in. During a Jan. 10 interview highlighted in the Patten-Walter Newsmax article, MRC chief Brent Bozell said that Loughner “isn’t even a conservative. We now know he’s some kind of anarchist who liked the Communist Manifesto.” And in his Jan. 12 CNSNews.com column, editor-in-chief Terry Jeffrey declared that Loughner had “admiration for the writings of Marx and Hitler.”

    For all this ConWeb name-checking of Marx and Hitler, you would never know — and they have no interest in telling you — that there are 19 other books on Loughner’s list, some of which dispel the notion that he was some sort of communist Nazi.

    Among them: Ayn Rand’s anti-communist novel “We The Living.” Also present were anti-totalitarian tomes like George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” and Ray Bradbury’s “Farenheit 451.”

    Yet the ConWeb never claimed that Loughner had “admiration” for Ayn Rand, despite the fact that the presence “We The Living” and the other anti-totalitarian books that would seem to directly contradict the notion that Loughner was in any sort of thrall to Marx and/or Hitler.

    Of course, as Salon.com’s Laura Miller pointed out, the presence of such contradictory books — not to mention two books by the Greek philosopher Plato, “Republic” and “Meno” — on Loughner’s reading list suggest that perhaps he’s just a crazy person and people shouldn’t be trying to divine significance where there is none:

    But Loughner is almost certainly insane and, like the countless other mentally disturbed people who send similar ravings to media outlets around the world, his ideas would have been ignored as incoherent and irrelevant if he hadn’t fired a gun into a crowd of people Saturday. The fact that he did fire that gun, however, doesn’t make his delusions suddenly meaningful. It doesn’t make his list of favorite books significant. Crazy people who make headlines and change history are still crazy.

    By studying Loughner’s book list for clues to the political leanings that somehow “drove” him to commit murder, commentators are behaving a lot like crazy people themselves.
    The ConWeb simply shrugged off the truth. Wait, didn’t Rand write a book about shrugging off something?

    * * *

    The myth that Loughner’s reading list consisted only of Marx and Hitler is only the most widespread of the falsehoods and misinformation the ConWeb has spread about the Arizona shooting. Unsurprisingly, WorldNetDaily led the way.

    Aaron Klein seems to have decided that Bill Ayers must be worked into this story somehow, so a Jan. 10 article by Klein begins:

    Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday’s Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama, WND has learned.

    The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers.
    What is missing from Klein’s article is any evidence that the curriculum at the high school Loughner attended is “communist,” related to ’60s radicalism, or even “liberal” — or any examples at all of what the school’s curriculum actually contains. This despite the fact that the headline of Klein’s article reads, “Bill Ayers, communist provided Arizona shooter’s curriculum?”

    Without any facts to back up his implication that Ayers taught Loughner how to be a terrorist — and because Klein and his research assistant Brenda J. Elliott, who also helped Klein with his factually dubious smear book on President Obama, couldn’t be bothered to find out what actually is being taught — this is yet another smear piece rehashing the same tired claims about how Ayers is a unrepentant terrorist and, of course, a close personal friend of President Obama.

    Corsi joined in the misleading fun with a Jan. 9 article obsessing over supposed links between the YouTube channels of Giffords and Loughner. At one point, Corsi stated that “Gifford subscribed to Loughner’s website since Oct. 25, 2010” — a poorly worded claim made more absurd by Corsi’s statement in the previous paragraph that Loughner created his YouTube channel the same day he awkwardly suggests that Giffords subscribed to it.

    Corsi also falsely asserted that “it is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford’s election campaign in 2007” — something nobody else has ever claimed. But the only evidence he offered to that effect was noting that “in Loughner’s home was found a form letter from Giffords’ office, thanking him for attending a 2007 event.” That is not the same thing as having “worked for Gifford’s election campaign.”

    Two days later, Corsi seemed to have been trying to correct the damage; in a article headlined “Sorting fact from fiction about Jared Loughner,” Corsi declared that “So far, no evidence has established that Loughner ever served as a formal volunteer to a Giffords’ election campaign, or that Giffords knew Loughner well, even though she wrote him what appears to have been a typical congressional letter to a constituent.” Of course, Corsi made no mention of his own false claim to the contrary.

    If that bit of incompetence wasn’t enough, Corsi then tried to present himself as an expert on punk rock, asserting in a Jan. 10 article that Loughner “may have been inspired by the radical leftist punk-rock band Anti-Flag, one of his favorite bands.”

    Essentially, all Corsi did for his article is read a tweet by someone who claimed Anti-Flag was one of Loughner’s favorite bands, found a music lyrics website (he even linked to it) and copied-and-pasted from selected songs. That, apparently, is Corsi’s idea of journalism.

    Meanwhile, the MRC’s Brent Bozell was in quite the falsehood-peddling mood during a Jan. 10 interview with Newsmax (referenced above). “Note how quickly the New York Times came out with an editorial calling for the Fairness Doctrine as a result of this,” Bozell said.

    But that didn’t happen; in fact, a search of the Times’ website indicates no mention of “fairness doctrine” anywhere in the Times — not just not on the editorial page, but anywhere in the paper — in the 30 days before Bozell’s interview. The closest a Times editorial published between the shooting and Bozell’s interview came to discussing speech issues regarding the shooting is a Jan. 10 editorial that called for “quieting the voices of intolerance,” which is not even remotely the same thing as “calling for the Fairness Doctrine.”

    Bozell also asserted that “The Daily Kos whackjob website has got targets over faces that they don’t like.” Not true either — in fact, Daily Kos has issued no graphics containing a bulls-eye image regarding Giffords.

    But for pure crassness, you can’t beat WND’s attempt to cash in on the massacre. Putting money before any principles it claims to have, WND inserted a promotional ad into a Jan. 10 WND article: “Who really inspired Jared Lee Loughner? Read Richard Wurmbrand’s Marx & Satan to find out.” The link goes to the page for the book at the WND online store. (No mention of Ayn Rand, of course.)

    WND continued the cravenness with an article-length plug for a book (which, of course, it sells) arguing “the biblical case for armed self-defense,” calling it the “common-sense, tried-and-true biblical and constitutional prescription” to “a man-made disaster like the Arizona massacre.”

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2011/azshooting.html

  76. ellid says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:47 am  (Quote)

    Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years. They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time. The star at the Law School these days is Harvey Silverglate, who’s had the good sense to refrain from making a fool of himself opening a bad deli or representing the likes of Claus von Bulow.

  77. Scientist says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:59 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion: He followed up the next day in “news analysis” by asking: “Are the news media deliberately disguising the reported liberal politics of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in yesterday’s fatal shooting that left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman?” As evidence, Klein highlighted “the men actually listed by Loughner as among his favorite authors, Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler,” linking to his article of the previous day.

    By what stretch of the imagination are either Hitler or Marx liberals?

  78. Whatever4 says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:08 am  (Quote)

    Blast from the past — remember the Kenyan Minister of Lands, James Orengo? Did anyone ever contact him about what he said in the Kenyan Parliament? http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/04/kenyan-official-says-american-president-born-in-kenya/

  79. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:19 am  (Quote)

    I recall someone posting a list of 30-40 quotes of the definition of natural born citizen from civics texts. If there is anyone who remembers where this is and can give me a link, I’d appreciate it.

  80. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:32 am  (Quote)

    ellid: Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years.They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time.The star at the Law School these days is Harvey Silverglate, who’s had the good sense to refrain from making a fool of himself opening a bad deli or representing the likes of Claus von Bulow.

    Oh how typical of you “fair-minded Obots!!! Tee Hee! First, you hop on whatever lie it is that confirms your bias, then when somebody like little old me points out your ILLOGIC, you say “You’re a nobody, Squeeky and a nut, and what do you know anyway???”, then I find somebody with good credentials who reasons like me, and then you Obots smear them with some stupid statement along the lines of “Oh, that person is stupid too!!!’

    All this, while condemning Birthers for allegedly doing the same thing!!! OH, this is why I laugh at you Obots the way you laugh at us. For the life of me, I can’t find any real difference between you and what you say about us. Soooo, now i guess the Obot LEMMING LINE will be, Sarah Palin is anti-Semitic and if any Jew says she isn’t then they are stupid and their opinion doesn’t count!!!

    You OBOTS are soooo DULL-THINKING, that one of you, Black Lion, who I actually like, used a ADL (Which means Anti Defamation League) quote that confirmed what Dershowitz said to try to dispute Dershowitz!!!

    Here:

    “It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks, and we agree with her that the best tradition in America is one of finding common ground despite our differences.

    Still, we wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase “blood-libel” in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one so fraught with pain in Jewish history.”

    This statement was portrayed as CONDEMNATION of Palin by one of the smarter Obots.

    Let me highlight it for you so you can IGNORE it easier:

    1. It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks. . .

    2. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused. . .

    Now, all you RATIONAL and OPEN-MINDED Obots can get busy either flatly IGNORING this, or you can make up some stupid rationalization why the ADL is anti-Semitic!!! That way, you can keep on believing whatever you want to while ignoring reality and prissing around patting yourselves on the back for your superior reasoning skills!!!

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  81. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:34 am  (Quote)

    More nonsense from the cesspool known as “Dr Kate”…

    “The clueless and disrespectful Obamas use the rawness of the Arizona shooting tragedy–of death and maiming unexplained —to switch the focus to the campaign for 2012. What a crass way to interfere with the honoring of slain and wounded people, like the way he has treated every medal of honor winner and dead soldier since he seized the White House. He has absolutely no respect for Americans, for America, or for everyday human decency. This event would have been more respectful and meaningful without the usurpation of the Obamas.”

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/without-obama-we-thrive/

    And in the comments the usual tinfoil wearing idiots make an appearance…

    Mary
    January 13, 2011 at 1:37 am
    Dr. Kate
    The Tucson affair, from beginning to end, is a setup. The CIA, which noworks for the NWO, not the USA, has crazies like the TucsOn shooter In every oorner of America waiting to create a major diversion tO help obama.

    1. The killing took place in AZ, which obama has been steadily dIscrediting and whose sOverignty he wants to destroy.

    2. The incident “just happened” to occur within the jurisdiction of an obamacrat sheriff.

    3. The sheriff’s 100% undocumented accusations were the prearranged signal for the obama media to jump on the firt and secon amendments. ALL OF THE LEFT’S RANT OCCURED SO QUICKLY AFTER THE MURDERS THAT IT WAS OBVIOUSLY SCRIPTED, THE PLAYBOOK FOR A STAGED EVENT.

    4. obama shows up in Tucson to make a me-I, I-me speech, trying tO salvage his popularity, exploiting a crisis..

    5. The incident “just happened” to occur almost at the sam time that the new Congress was sworn in: discredit them before they can say “Repeal obama care,” wOrk on the economy, and in every way show up obama.

    6. If there’s no crisis to exploit, manufacture one.

    7. This whole TucsOn business has the stench of Alinsky –and brimstone.

    Add the murdered judge to Bill Gwatney, BerniepMac, StePhanie Tubbs Jones, Donald Young….

    Quantum Leap
    January 13, 2011 at 3:44 am
    He is speaking code for “No ome must ever know what really happened and no one can really ever find out”

    hmmmm…peculiar.

    ?For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind. So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.”

    This whole event is very political and it’s he and his gang that makes it so. why aren’t they speaking from the WH like everyone else does?
    What does the sheriff know that he’s covering up? Does the sherriff know the F B I may have been setting the kid up?
    So many questions and they are not about a kids deranged mind.

    FBI INSISTED Judge John Roll attend the event.

  82. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:48 am  (Quote)

    Palin disables comments on her video about open discourse
    by Jed Lewison
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 at 02:09:42 PM PST

    So in her web video supposedly designed to defend the open discussion of ideas no matter how objectionable they might be…Sarah Palin disabled public comments on the video she posted on Vimeo

    Note that Palin released her ‘heartfelt’ video at exactly 4:00AM Alaska time…just the right moment to take the news cycle by storm, and make today be about her. Also too, and perhaps more telling, Palin didn’t even have the courage to take questions from Fox about her message. Instead, she hid behind a TelePrompter, secure in the knowledge that she would not have to respond to a single question about her speech. Now that’s political courage, eh?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/12/935822/-Palin-disables-comments-on-her-video-about-open-discourse

    Jewish groups condemn Palin’s use of term ‘blood libel’

    Condemnations by Jewish organization, over Sarah Palin’s self-serving use of the term “blood libel” to defend herself after the criticism she has received in the wake of the assassination attempt of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, are mounting:

    Jewish Funds for Justice:
    We are deeply disturbed by Fox News commentator Sarah Palin’s decision to characterize as a “blood libel” the criticism directed at her following the terrorist attack in Tucson. The term “blood libel” is not a synonym for “false accusation.” It refers to a specific falsehood perpetuated by Christians about Jews for centuries, a falsehood that motivated a good deal of anti-Jewish violence and discrimination. Unless someone has been accusing Ms. Palin of killing Christian babies and making matzoh from their blood, her use of the term is totally out-of-line. […]

    Ms. Palin clearly took some time to reflect before putting out her statement today. Despite that time, her primary conclusion was that she is the victim and Rep. Giffords is the perpetrator. As a powerful rhetorical advocate for personal responsibility, Ms. Palin has failed to live up to her own standards with this statement.

    National Jewish Democratic Council
    Instead of dialing down the rhetoric at this difficult moment, Sarah Palin chose to accuse others trying to sort out the meaning of this tragedy of somehow engaging in a “blood libel” against her and others. This is of course a particularly heinous term for American Jews, given that the repeated fiction of blood libels are directly responsible for the murder of so many Jews across centuries — and given that blood libels are so directly intertwined with deeply ingrained anti-Semitism around the globe, even today.

    J Street:
    The country’s attention is rightfully focused on the memorial service for the victims of Saturday’s shooting. Our prayers continue to be with those who are still fighting to recover and the families of the victims. The last thing the country needs now is for the rhetoric in the wake of this tragedy to return to where it was before.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/12/935719/-Jewish-groups-condemn-Palins-use-of-term-blood-libel

  83. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:53 am  (Quote)

    The article referenced above by Squeekers is below….

    Breaking: ADL condemns Sarah Palin’s “blood libel”
    By Greg Sargent

    Sarah Palin’s charge that her critics are guilty of “blood libel,” while designed to put her in the center of the conversation on her own terms and to retake the initiative after days of negative press, has generated some surprising pushback from voices who are generally sympathetic to her current media plight.

    Now the Anti-Defamation League is condemning her, which could take the criticism to a whole new level. The ADL sends over a statement from Abraham Foxman:

    It is unfortunate that the tragedy in Tucson continues to stimulate a political blame game. Rather than step back and reflect on the lessons to be learned from this tragedy, both parties have reverted to political partisanship and finger-pointing at a time when the American people are looking for leadership, not more vitriol. In response to this tragedy we need to rise above partisanship, incivility, heated rhetoric, and the business-as-usual approaches that are corroding our political system and tainting the atmosphere in Washington and across the country.

    It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks, and we agree with her that the best tradition in America is one of finding common ground despite our differences.

    Still, we wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase “blood-libel” in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one so fraught with pain in Jewish history.

    That’s not quite as strong as it might have been. It stops short of demanding that she retract the phrase or apologize for it, as the left-leaning group J-Street did this morning. But condemnation from the ADL could be enough to throw Palin back on the defensive.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/breaking_adl_condemns_sarah_pa.html

  84. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:03 am  (Quote)

    Should any of you wish to CONDEMN me, then I would sure love it if you would do it like the ADL CONDEMNED Sarah Palin, because anybody who can read can see this is NOT a condemnation, unless you are somebody looking to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

    OH, but whoever back pedals, “that’s not quite as strong as it might have been” OH REALLY???

    Let me help those COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED Obots:

    1. Sarah Palin was FALSELY ACCUSED!
    2. Sarah Palin has a right to defend herself.
    3. The term “blood libel” is commonly used to describe being falsely accused.
    4. We wish it wasn’t.

    See, that isn’t hard to understand.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  85. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:20 am  (Quote)

    Anyone who is stupid enough to claim blood libel as being a neutral term is obviously an idiot. The term has been used exclusively against religious minorities, mainly the jews. Here’s a bit of modern history courtesy of our friends at wiki:

    Modern1840 Damascus affair: In February, at Damascus, a Catholic monk named Father Thomas and his servant were murdered. The accusation of ritual murder was brought against members of the Jewish community of Damascus
    1840 Rhodes blood libel: The Jews of Rhodes, during the Ottoman Empire, were accused of murdering a Greek Christian boy. The libel was supported by the local governor and the European consuls posted to Rhodes. Several Jews were arrested and tortured, and the entire Jewish quarter was blockaded for twelve days. An investigation carried out by the central Ottoman government found the Jews to be innocent.
    In March 1879, ten Jewish men from a mountain village were brought to Kutaisi, Georgia to stand trial for the alleged kidnapping and murder of a Christian girl. The case attracted a great deal of attention in Russia (of which Georgia was then a part): “While periodicals as diverse in tendency as Herald of Europe and Saint Petersburg Notices expressed their amazement that medieval prejudice should have found a place in the modern judiciary of a civilized state, New Times hinted darkly of strange Jewish sects with unknown practices.”[26] The trial ended in acquittal, and the orientalist Daniel Chwolson published a refutation of the blood libel.
    1882 Tiszaeszlár blood libel: The Jews of the village Tiszaeszlár, Hungary were accused with the ritual murder of a fourteen-year-old Christian girl, Eszter Solymosi. The case was one of the main causes of the rise of antisemitism in the country. The accused persons were eventually acquitted.
    In the 1899 Hilsner Affair, Leopold Hilsner, a Jewish vagabond, was accused of murdering a nineteen-year-old Christian woman, Anežka Hrůzová, with a slash to the throat. Despite the absurdity of the charge and the relatively progressive nature of society in Austria-Hungary, Hilsner was convicted and sentenced to death. He was later convicted of an additional unsolved murder, also involving a Christian woman. In 1901, the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. Tomáš Masaryk, a prominent Austro-Czech philosophy professor and future president of Czechoslovakia, spearheaded Hilsner’s defense. He was later blamed by Czech media because of this. In March 1918, Hilsner was pardoned by Austrian emperor Charles I. He was never exonerated, and the true guilty parties were never found.
    The 1903 Kishinev pogrom, an anti-Jewish revolt, started when an anti-Semitic newspaper wrote that a Christian Russian boy, Mikhail Rybachenko, was found murdered in the town of Dubossary, alleging that the Jews killed him in order to use the blood in preparation of matzo. Around 49 Jews were killed and hundreds were wounded, with over 700 houses being looted and destroyed.
    In the 1910 Shiraz blood libel, the Jews of Shiraz, Iran, were falsely accused of murdering a Muslim girl. The entire Jewish quarter was pillaged; the pogrom left 12 Jews dead and about 50 injured.

    Antisemitic flier in Kiev, 1910: “Christians, take care of your children!!! It will be Jewish Passover on March 17.”In Kiev, a Jewish factory manager, Menahem Mendel Beilis, was accused of murdering a Christian child and using his blood in matzos. He was acquitted by an all-Christian jury after a sensational trial in 1913.
    In 1928, the Jews of Massena, New York, were falsely accused of kidnapping and killing a Christian girl in the Massena blood libel.
    The 1946 Kielce pogrom against Holocaust survivors in Poland was sparked by an accusation of blood libel.
    King Faisal of Saudi Arabia (r. 1964–1975) made accusations against Parisian Jews that took the nature of a blood libel.[27]
    The Matzah Of Zion was written by the Syrian Defense Minister, Mustafa Tlass in 1986. The book concentrates on two issues: renewed ritual murder accusations against the Jews in the Damascus affair of 1840, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[28] The book was cited at a United Nations conference in 1991 by a Syrian delegate.
    ContemporaryFurther information: Antisemitism in the Arab world, History of the Jews in Russia and the Soviet Union, and Islam and antisemitism
    On October 21, 2002, the London-based Arabic paper Al-Hayat reported that the book The Matzah of Zion was undergoing its eighth reprint and was being translated into English, French and Italian.
    In 2003 a private Syrian film company created a 29-part television series Ash-Shatat (“The Diaspora”). This series originally aired in Lebanon in late 2003 and was broadcast by Al-Manar, a satellite television network owned by Hezbollah. This TV series, based on the antisemitic forgery The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, shows the Jewish people as engaging in a conspiracy to rule the world, and presents Jews as people who murder Christian children, drain their blood and use this blood to bake matzah.
    In early January 2005, some 20 members of the Russian State Duma publicly made a blood libel against the Jewish people. They approached the Prosecutor General’s Office and demanded that Russia “ban all Jewish organizations.” They accused all Jewish groups of being extremists and of being “anti-Christian and inhumane, which practices extend even to ritual murders.”
    Alluding to previous antisemitic Russian court decrees that accused the Jews of ritual murder, they wrote that “Many facts of such religious extremism were proven in courts.” The accusation included traditional antisemitic canards, such as “the whole democratic world today is under the financial and political control of international Jewry. And we do not want our Russia to be among such unfree countries”.
    This demand was published as an open letter to the prosecutor general, in Rus Pravoslavnaya (Russian: ÐуÑÑŒ правоÑлавнаÑ, “Orthodox Russia”), a national-conservative newspaper. This group consisted of members of the ultra-nationalist Liberal Democrats, the Communist faction, and the nationalist Motherland party, with some 500 supporters. Тhe mentioned document is known as “The Letter of Five Hundred” (“ПиÑьмо пÑтиÑот”).[29][30] Their supporters included editors of nationalist newspapers as well as journalists. By the end of the month this group had received stiff criticism, and retracted its demand.
    At the end of April 2005, five boys, ages 9 to 12, in Krasnoyarsk (Russia) disappeared. In May 2005, their burnt bodies were found in the city sewage. The crime was not disclosed, and in August 2007 the investigation was extended until November 18, 2007.[31] Some Russian nationalist groups claimed that the children were murdered by a Jewish sect with a ritual purpose.[32][33] Nationalist M. Nazarov, one of the authors of “The Letter of Five Hundred” alleges “the existence of a ‘Hasidic sect’, whose members kill children before Passover to collect their blood,” using the Beilis case mentioned above as evidence. M.Nazarov also alleges that “the ritual murder requires throwing the body away rather than its concealing”. “The Union of the Russian People” demanded officials thoroughly investigate the Jews, not stopping at the search in synagogues, Matzah bakeries and their offices. During a speech in 2007, Raed Salah, the leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, accused Jews of using children’s blood to bake bread. “We have never allowed ourselves to knead [the dough for] the bread that breaks the fast in the holy month of Ramadan with children’s blood,” he said. “Whoever wants a more thorough explanation, let him ask what used to happen to some children in Europe, whose blood was mixed in with the dough of the [Jewish] holy bread.”

    What do all these have in common?

  86. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:43 am  (Quote)

    What do all these have in common?

    Uh, nothing to do with today???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  87. Daniel says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:47 am  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Should any of you wish to CONDEMN me, then I would sure love it if you would do it like the ADL CONDEMNED Sarah Palin, because anybody who can read can see this is NOT a condemnation,

    The ADL statement was a condemnation couched in political language. In ordinary people’s language, it would be translated as “Sarah Palin…. you’re an idiot.”

    Fortunately, on this forum, we don’t need to use the niceties of political language. We can say it succinctly and accurately, as in, “Squeeky… you’re an idiot,”

  88. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    Daniel:

    Nope. Sorry.That is just your OPINION, and NOT supported by the words themselves. Try my translation above for the COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED. Plus, here is something else you Obots can IGNORE and NOT READ so that you won’t have to re-route any of those lazy little axons. (Things in your brain)

    http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/256955/term-blood-libel-more-common-you-might-think

    by Jim Geragty

    The use of the term “blood libel” in non-Jewish contexts is out of bounds, eh?

    Andrew Sullivan, October 10, 2008:

    A couple of obvious thoughts. Paladino speaks of “perverts who target our children and seek to destroy their lives.” This is the gay equivalent of the medieval (and Islamist) blood-libel against Jews.

    Ann Coulter’s column, October 30, 2008:

    His expert pontificator on race was The Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson, who said the Pittsburgh hoax was “the blood libel against black men concerning the defilement of the flower of Caucasian womanhood. It’s been with us for hundreds of years and, apparently, is still with us.”

    From the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, September 30, 2009:

    Almost immediately following the aftermath of the shooting, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation was the unlikely voice that called for the safeguard of Muslims in the armed forces.

    Within hours of the news breaking, MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein called upon President Barack Obama to “immediately issue a statement as Commander-in-Chief making it clear that there would be a zero-tolerance policy against any member of the U.S. military inflicting harassments, retribution or reprisal against an Islamic member of the U.S. military.” . . .

    He criticized former Alaska Governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin for saying that she was “all for” profiling against Muslims.

    “We’re not painting all Jews as thieves for Madoff’s economic crimes,” said Weinstein, comparing Palin’s comments to a “blood libel.”

    During the recount in 2000:

    Florida Democrat Peter Deutsch last night on Crossfire:

    Let me just talk a little bit about the whole, I guess, spin from the Republicans about — which has been to me the absolute most — the worst statements I have ever heard probably in my life about anything. I mean, almost a blood libel by the Republicans towards Al Gore, saying that he was trying to stop men and women in uniform that are serving this country from voting. That is the most absurd thing and absolutely has no basis in fact at all.

    In the grand scheme of things, the idea that Palin used a phrase associated with one particular, egregious, and historically recurring false accusation to rebut a modern false accusation seems like little reason for outrage. For perspective on what really is worth outrage, the services for 9-year-old victim Christina Taylor Green are tomorrow.

    UPDATE: Some more examples, from my side of the aisle:

    Jed Babbin, September 8, 2004:

    When, in April 1971, John Kerry testified to a Senate committee that “. . . war crimes committed in Southeast Asia [were] not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command,” he said that the average American soldier who fought in Vietnam was a war criminal. Kerry’s statement was false, a blood libel that hangs in the air to this day.

    Michael Barone, November 15, 2004:

    And the argument against Michael Dukakis, which he never effectively countered because there is no effective counter, is that giving furlough to people who have life without parole is a position that Dukakis defended over 11 years as governor of Massachusetts or governor candidate, is a crazy law, and he supported it over 11 years. You don’t have to be a racist to want a murderer, whatever his race, to stay in jail and not be allowed outside on the weekend. To say that the American people were racist and they just want black people in, is blood libel on the American people.

    John Hood, September 23, 2003: “A Blood Libel’ Against the News & Observer.”

    ANOTHER UPDATE: Either Joel Roberts or Andrew Cohen of CBS News (both names are listed), February 9, 2005:

    Ward Churchill still doesn’t get it. Even though he has tried to clarify and backtrack upon the worst of his intemperate remarks about the victims of the terror attacks on America, he persists in hanging a blood libel on thousands of victims and, by clear implication, you and me.

    Andrew Cohen of CBS News, May 7, 2008:

    So-called “judicial activism” occurs, in other words, when it’s your side that lost the case and it is nothing short of a blood libel against judges to accuse them of operating by fiat.

    Alex Beam in the Boston Globe, January 14, 2005, discussing the accusation that an official had used the “n-word” in meetings overseas:

    My two anonymous sources were making charges that amounted to blood libel’ against former colleagues; that raised the bar for ethical publication.

    John Derbyshire, April 28, 2008: “A Blood Libel on Our Civilization.”

    AP, July 28, 2008:

    Just before Obama spoke, Newsday editor Les Payne had called “blood libel” the argument that African-American journalists could not objectively cover Obama’s candidacy.

    ANOTHER UPDATE: Frank Rich, New York Times columnist, October 15, 2006:

    The moment Mr. Foley’s e-mails became known, we saw that brand of fearmongering and bigotry at full tilt: Bush administration allies exploited the former Congressman’s predatory history to spread the grotesque canard that homosexuality is a direct path to pedophilia. It’s the kind of blood libel that in another era was spread about Jews.

    ——————————————————-

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  89. Daniel says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:55 am  (Quote)

    Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

  90. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:14 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

    Likewise. That Obots just ignore stuff that is inconvenient.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  91. Scientist says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:28 pm  (Quote)

    Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman. Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents elected them to do.

    Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

  92. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

    Please ignore the troll.

  93. Black Lion says:
    January 13, 2011 at 12:50 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman. Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents elected them to do.Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

    Scientist, great point….You are so right….

  94. Daniel says:
    January 13, 2011 at 1:26 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    The problem with Sarah Palin is not that reasonable people should ignore her, it’s that fools admire her, and would vote for her.

  95. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 1:27 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion:
    Scientist, great point….You are so right….

    Translation:

    Bless you, Scientist!!! Squeeky was really tearing me up there!!! I felt just like a carpet over a clothesline, and she was just smacking the dust out of me with a broom. Whew!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  96. James M says:
    January 13, 2011 at 2:25 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman.Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents electedthem to do.Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

    She reaches a much larger audience than other Vice Presidential also-rans, and she broadcasts a dangerous message. She is regarded by a large and growing movement as a leader of that movement. If this dangerous message is allowed to propagate unchallenged, we run the risk of it becoming acceptable.

  97. Sef says:
    January 13, 2011 at 4:03 pm  (Quote)

    I see Greer is enjoying a heat wave. It’s 38 now. Hope you are enjoying a well-deserved vacation. Did you see that yesterday Florida was the only state free of snow?

  98. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:12 pm  (Quote)

    Sef: I see Greer is enjoying a heat wave. It’s 38 now. Hope you are enjoying a well-deserved vacation. Did you see that yesterday Florida was the only state free of snow?

    Yes, one of the other folks on our tour commented about the snow almost everywhere. Of course, there would not be any snow in Hawaii either. By the way, I don’t live in Greer; that’s just the nearest airport.

    They say it never gets below 70 degrees here in Panama. Here are two articles about the flooding here this past December:

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/12/10/Panama-Canal-closed-due-to-flood-reopens/UPI-43211291963866/
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lt_panama_flooding

  99. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:23 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yes, one of the other folks on our tour commented about the snow almost everywhere. Of course, there would not be any snow in Hawaii either.

    There is snow in the mountains of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa in Hawaii.

    “The first week of 2011 brought snow to Mauna Kea, more than we’ve seen in years. The snow was down to the 10,000 foot level on this dormant volcano that is 13,796 ft. above sea level.
    Its neighbor, Mauna Loa, had a considerable amount of snow as well. Mauna Loa is the largest volcano on Earth in terms of volume and area covered, and stands at 13,679 ft.—just slightly lower than Mauna Kea.”

    http://www.hawaiilife.com/articles/2011/01/snow-mauna-kea-mauna-loa/

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/11/snow-present-in-49-of-the-50-u-s-states/

  100. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:27 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    Unless she starts putting her toe back in the birther stream, I certainly don’t care. I think she’s best described as a cartoon of the ugly American. In my opinion, she is unelectable for President.

  101. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. C:

    Well, I guess I will have to do a Internet Article about what it is about Sarah Palin that gets some peoples goat!!! Which is really pretty much that she is like the little kid at the party who said the Emperor was naked.

    Plus, I hope you are having fun wherever. Don’t worry about here. I will keep all the Obots in line! (LOL!!!)

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  102. Rickey says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:46 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Please ignore the troll.

    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

  103. Sef says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

    DKos has the comment collapse arrows. Maybe something like that would be useful here.

  104. Rickey says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm  (Quote)

    ellid: Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years.They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time.

    Dershowitz also defends the use of torture.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/17/60minutes/main324751.shtml

  105. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 6:54 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    That’s an easy one. So we can all get a big laugh and celebrate another 4 years of the Obama Administration when she says, “I am running for president as an independent candidate.”

  106. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 7:01 pm  (Quote)

    Meanwhile, your favorite little Girl Reporter has another Internet Article!!! Here is the link where you can ignore it or maybe mindread it:

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/the-democrats-hollowcaust/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  107. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 7:04 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

    Yeah, you would think so and yet . . .

  108. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm  (Quote)

    All,

    Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…

    Squeeky,

    Sarah Palin’s use of the term ‘blood libel’ was an analogy comparing the media’s accusations against her to the accusations that Jews used the blood of Christian children in their matzo. Thus Sarah Palin is comparing her suffering to the Jews who were falsely accused and comparing her political opponents to their oppressors using an extremely racially charged term. Since you brought up the Holocaust, let me draw another analogy – this is essentially the same as if Sarah Palin had compared her suffering to that of the Jews under Hilter and compared her opponents to the Nazis. I’m not Jewish, but I don’t think I would look on either comparison kindly if I had lost family to either atrocity. The contrast of Caribou Barbie’s completely tone-deaf statement and the president’s speech show exactly why Ms. Palin doesn’t deserve her place on our national stage and gives a hint of just how big a catastrophe it would have been to elect her to high office…

  109. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: All,Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…Squeeky,Sarah Palin’s use of the term blood libel’ was an analogy comparing the media’s accusations against her to the accusations that Jews used the blood of Christian children in their matzo.Thus Sarah Palin is comparing her suffering to the Jews who were falsely accused and comparing her political opponents to their oppressors using an extremely racially charged term.Since you brought up the Holocaust, let me draw another analogy – this is essentially the same as if Sarah Palin had compared her suffering to that of the Jews under Hilter and compared her opponents to the Nazis.I’m not Jewish, but I don’t think I would look on either comparison kindly if I had lost family to either atrocity.The contrast of Caribou Barbie’s completely tone-deaf statement and the president’s speech show exactly why Ms. Palin doesn’t deserve her place on our national stage and gives a hint of just how big a catastrophe it would have been to elect her to high office…

    And now you’re expecting a cogent, thoughtful response? Seriously?

    I’ll bet you could have accomplished this without addressing the vacuous, drunken, self-serving lunatic and senseless troll. For example, perhaps by addressing the few here you know to be Jewish as well as sane for a more lucid, honest and hopefully productive discussion.

    Just a thought.

  110. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 8:42 pm  (Quote)

    Slarty:

    I have provided 3 separate quoty thingies about this. Alan Dershowitz, the ADL (which means Anti Defamation League) and a National Review Internet Article of other famous people who have used the term. I have never even heard about the Jews eating Christian kids for supper thingy, but one of the descriptions did remind of certain pagan thingies like the sacrifices of Adonis stuff, and plus there used to be a lot of ritual castration except it was for real. I guess back when there was a Great Mother Worship, the Women knew how to keep the grunty little malebeasts in line better??? (LOL!!!)

    But anyway, back to this stuff, so at two Jewish people/orgs are telling you that the term has become broader in use, and then there is the list of others, like one or two maybe I have heard of. Frank Rich who is either a poet or a guy at the New York Times. I will look up again, and somebody else.

    Sooo, if people STILL want to dump on Sarah Plain, then that is there Free Speech right, but it is wrong, and to make it worse, it is being done by several people who I like a lot more than I do Rush Limbaugh, who seems like he needs a strong Woman to adjust his attitude.

    Majority Will:

    I know you just haaaatttteee my stuff and my Internet Articles, and that is one reason why I just stay on the open thread and nothing else so you and other Obots don’t have to get irritated all the time. But you really ought to read some of my Internet Articles because they might be better than what you think. Plus, I am only on glass of wine number 2, so I am NOT drunk.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  111. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:09 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    And now you’re expecting a cogent, thoughtful response?

    No, but I felt that there should be a cogent rebuttal to Squeeky’s invocation of the holocaust (which I found disgusting) on the thread and did my best to fill the need.

    Seriously?I’ll bet you could have accomplished this without addressing the vacuous, drunken, self-serving lunatic and senseless troll.

    Probably.

    For example, perhaps by addressing the few here you know to be Jewish as well as sane for a more lucid, honest and hopefully productive discussion.

    Good idea.

    Misha,

    Do you think my analog of Sarah Palin’s use of the term ‘blood libel’ and the holocaust was apt? (and on behalf of Sarah Palin and all of the self-absorbed demagogues who seem to be completely unaware of just how sensitive this topic is to your people, I’d like to apologize – Ms. Palin shames our entire country.)

    Just a thought.

    A reasonable one – I was in a hurry to write a post (I didn’t want to waste too much of my time replying to Squeeky) and didn’t take the time to explain my thought without addressing Squeeky. Rest assured that this was an exception and I have no intention to engage in Squeeky’s sophisticated dialectic (‘am not’, ‘are too’, ‘am not’, ‘are too, so there!’, ‘am not infinity’, ‘are too infinity plus one’, ‘tee hee, tee hee’…)

  112. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:12 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: analog

    D’oh! That should be ‘analogy’…

  113. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:47 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: Do you think my analog of Sarah Palin’s use of the term blood libel’ and the holocaust was apt? (and on behalf of Sarah Palin and all of the self-absorbed demagogues who seem to be completely unaware of just how sensitive this topic is to your people, I’d like to apologize – Ms. Palin shames our entire country.)

    I’m Jewish as well. My family members were murdered by Nazis. There is evil.
    I also lived through many taunts and relentless bullying of ignorant schoolmates with regards to issues like blood libel and other anti-semitic slurs.
    My first impression is that Palin is truly an idiot as I’ve known all along and that she has surrounded herself with like-minded idiots who think she can do no wrong. I don’t think she knew what she was saying because her ego tells her she doesn’t make mistakes – just like narcissistic birthers. However, she continues to play the victim and her hubris and inability to admit fault or take any responsibility for her horrid decisions whether it’s “blood libel”, crosshairs or “RELOAD” makes her more vile than I thought possible.

    Like some of the more vocal birthers, she is an embarrassment to this nation. Hopefully, she will continue to humiliate herself into obscurity and off the national stage.

    You betcha.

  114. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:14 pm  (Quote)

    Will,

    I think that ‘narcissistic’ is the key to Ms. Palin – you’re exactly right when you say her ego wont allow her to admit her mistakes which her lack of engagement and self-centeredness make inevitable. With regard to like-minded idiots and whether or not she understood how charged the phrase is, I would note that although someone (not her) seems to have written the speech and they knew (or should have known) about the phrase they were using, Ms. Palin has a responsibility having used the speech – she either knew the background of the phrase before she used it or could have apologized for using the phrase afterwards if she thought that it was inappropriate – in either case we see that Ms. Palin clearly thinks that her travails at the hands of the media are comparable to the suffering and oppression which the Jewish people endured. I can’t think of a clearer indication of what an egotistical narcissist (with an overactive victim complex) she is…

  115. Scientist says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:22 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: her travails at the hands of the media

    Palin has made millions at the hands of the media. Please, may I have such “travails”?

  116. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:25 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    Palin has made millions at the hands of the media.Please, may I have such “travails”?

    Yeah, I could use some of that ‘suffering’, too…

  117. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:40 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: All,Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…

    And now you know why it says the dumb things it does – BAIT!

  118. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:50 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: 1- Squeeky approves of political violence.

    I also approve of political violence. While I cannot foresee a situation happening in the United States where I would feel political violence could be justified, if I were from an earlier time and someone came to me with a plan to sneak a bomb into Hitler’s bunker, I might well have joined up.

  119. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    Trolls talk stupid just to get you respond to their idiocy. All they want is attention to make themselves feel important. If you respond to trolls they have won no matter how intelligent your response is. Trolls don’t care about facts; all they care about is the attention

  120. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    And now you know why it says the dumb things it does – BAIT!

    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding… If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

  121. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:05 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast:
    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding…If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

    Well, since nobody is “engaging”:

    To Whom It may Concern:

    That is why I post stuff, too. To put truth next to vile disinformation and stupid stuff. I can’t help it that people don’t read it, or believe it, or even really good links. I just say what I think needs to be said.Sometimes that is just all you can do.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  122. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:07 pm  (Quote)

    What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

  123. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:10 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast:
    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding…If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

    Yes, this is anecdotal but all in all, I remember only a very small handful of birthers who seemed just confused and ignorant of the truth. Now as time marches on it seems like only the hardcore idiots are hanging on.

  124. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:11 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Trolls talk stupid just to get you respond to their idiocy. All they want is attention to make themselves feel important. If you respond to trolls they have won no matter how intelligent your response is. Trolls don’t care about facts; all they care about is the attention

    My response to Squeeky had nothing to do with any future action it may or may not take it had to do with not leaving a reference to the Holocaust which I found disgusting unanswered. I agree with you about engaging it in general and made an exception for the reasons that I have stated – you may disagree with my reasoning for doing so, but don’t think that I don’t understand what it is trying to do.

  125. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:18 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

    And the Andromeda Strain wasn’t neutralized. It eventually mutated to a benign form.

  126. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:20 pm  (Quote)

    Oh yes, “it” is soooo NEFARIOUS!!! People make up stupid slander and libel about someone like Sarah Palin, and here “it” comes with all this EVIL stuff from Alan Dershowitz, and the ADL, and even New York Times peoples and just kills the little Obot Buzz with truth. You Obots are a piece of work!!!

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  127. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:29 pm  (Quote)

    In addition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

  128. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:29 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Yes, this is anecdotal but all in all, I remember only a very small handful of birthers who seemed just confused and ignorant of the truth. Now as time marches on it seems like only the hardcore idiots are hanging on.

    I’m sure there is a natural selection process whereby people get sucked deeper and deeper into the movement until their gullibility is exceeded and they get spit out – by now pretty much the only ones left are the ones with a strong enough confirmation bias to ignore all of the evidence…

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

    FUT,

    Seems like a pretty solid analysis to me. You should make a Troll bestiary or taxonomy – then we could classify trolls and stick them on pieces of cardboard with pins like butterflies (figuratively speaking, of course… ;-)).

  129. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:32 pm  (Quote)

    Yes, a taxonomy of trolls. Now that would be something people would need and find very useful on a site like this. lmao

  130. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:33 pm  (Quote)

    maybe a troll Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, DSM-T

  131. Slartibartfast says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:34 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Inaddition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

    Yeah, eye feal lik that alot.

  132. Majority Will says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:44 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Inaddition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

    http://www.journalismcareers.com/guidetotheapostrophe.shtml

    Go with Bob the Angry Flower.

    Never fear the apostrophe.

  133. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:47 pm  (Quote)

    lmao @ both

  134. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm  (Quote)

    From DSM-T: Chapter 17 STD’s (Sanctimonious Twit Disorders)

    Above all, the diagnostician must be careful in accepting Troll Descriptive Input Information before administering the Minnesota STD Test to the information provider. STD’s tend to see “trolls” behind every URL. In fact, to STD’s, “trolls” are simply those having opinions contrary to those of the provider.

    STD’s tend to cluster in Internet “Covens” where their intolerance for disagreement is reinforced by the other members of the coven. In the most nefarious example of mis-diagnosis, a Girl Reporter, Squeeky “Doe” was mis-diagnosed by a practitioner after repeated reports from a group of STD’s that she was a troll.

    A follow-up study revealed the coven had merged into a Jungian “mass-mind” where all individuality was absorbed by the collective. Each member of the coven had adopted the same outerwear, including bow ties, and Nikes. Squeeky “Doe” was just too strong willed to be broken and absorbed into the seething bile-filled mass. In fact, the very smart Ms. Doe is responsible for coining the term, Sanctimonious Twits.

    Before they could be treated, the coven dis-appeared to a mountain retreat in Kenya to await the arrival of a “mother ship.” Current psychiatric jurisdiction does not extend to Kenya, and the coven remains untreated. Unsubstantiated reports are that they are still protesting President Sarah Palin’s second term in office, claiming she was actually born in Canada, and thus not a natural born citizen.

    Squeeky “Doe”
    Girl Reporter

  135. Majority Will says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:15 am  (Quote)

    As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

  136. Majority Will says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:17 am  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: From DSM-T: Chapter 17 STD’s (Sanctimonious Twit Disorders)Above all, the diagnostician must be careful in accepting Troll Descriptive Input Information before administering the Minnesota STD Test to the information provider. STD’s tend to see “trolls” behind every URL. In fact, to STD’s, “trolls” are simply those having opinions contrary to those of the provider.
    STD’s tend to cluster in Internet “Covens” where their intolerance for disagreement is reinforced by the other members of the coven. In the mostnefarious example of mis-diagnosis, a Girl Reporter, Squeeky “Doe” was mis-diagnosed by a practitioner after repeated reports from a group of STD’s that she was a troll.A follow-up study revealed the coven had merged into a Jungian “mass-mind” where all individuality was absorbed by the collective. Each member of the coven had adopted the same outerwear, including bow ties, and Nikes. Squeeky “Doe” was just too strong willed to be broken and absorbed into the seething bile-filled mass. In fact, the very smart Ms. Doe is responsible for coining the term, Sanctimonious Twits.Before they could be treated, the coven dis-appeared to a mountain retreat in Kenya to await the arrival of a “mother ship.”Current psychiatric jurisdiction does not extend to Kenya, and the coven remains untreated. Unsubstantiated reports are that they are still protesting President Sarah Palin’s second term in office, claiming she was actually born in Canada, and thus not a natural born citizen.
    Squeeky “Doe”
    Girl Reporter

    GFY

  137. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:18 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

    Another pitiful, pathetic cry for attention.

  138. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:24 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

    . . .is a brilliant tour de force! I laughed! I cried! It became a part of me!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  139. Dave says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:32 am  (Quote)

    Routine confusion by Taitz: she brags:

    over 90,000 comments on a small article on snops.com about my case in front of the Supreme Court. It shows that people want to know the truth

    She doesn’t link to the snopes article, but it’s here. It has 18 comments. Definitely not 90,000. The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

  140. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:48 am  (Quote)

    Dave: Routine confusion by Taitz: she brags:
    She doesn’t link to the snopes article, but it’s here. It has 18 comments. Definitely not 90,000. The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

    Taitz is bragging? Has she checked lately to see what the president’s name is?

  141. The Magic M says:
    January 14, 2011 at 5:18 am  (Quote)

    > The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

    Taitz is amazingly, often amusingly, stupid. Recently she claimed that Google’s display of “1.6 mio. results (0.35s)” meant that there were 1.6 mio. new articles about the subject in the last 35 seconds. I informed her about that misunderstanding on her blog, but of course she deleted me and kept the false information up. At one point, these people really get blind towards everything, even the most basic of errors.

  142. Slartibartfast says:
    January 14, 2011 at 6:06 am  (Quote)

    Meanwhile, back at the Super Best Friends… er… um… I mean Dr. Kate’s…

    This episode Quantum Leap gives us a diagnosis of Jared Loughner:

    Quantum Leap
    January 14, 2011 at 12:16 am
    People like this are possessed and need an excorcism. No pills or hospital will help. His heavy dependence on THC didn’t help any.

    In our next exciting episode QL will explain how to determine if someone is a witch… (hint: if she weighs the same as a duck…)

  143. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 14, 2011 at 9:14 am  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: Meanwhile, back at the Super Best Friends… er… um… I mean Dr. Kate’s…This episode Quantum Leap gives us a diagnosis of Jared Loughner:In our next exciting episode QL will explain how to determine if someone is a witch… (hint: if she weighs the same as a duck…)

    Mighty fine application of Python’s Law sir.

  144. Black Lion says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:01 pm  (Quote)

    From the Post and Fail, another story along the lines of the Race Bannon fiction. You remember, the guy that claimed that when he was in the military he ran into a young Barack Obama and he claimed that Obama told him he would be President even though he was born in Kenya….This is almost as unbelievable….

    It would be interesting to see comments from the posters here who grew up in HI if any of these claims are remotely true….

    “(Jan. 13, 2011) — CBS News allowed the following comment to be published on its website following an article about Obama’s visit to Arizona yesterday:

    It’s a big leap from running into Obama’s father on campus and knowing details of this birth. Especially since Barack’s father was the first papolo “black” person in the 60 year history of UH Manoa at that time to attend grad school. Hence would have attracted lots of looks and attention on campus, none the less having a pregnant white wife. Neil Abercrombie being a lifelong self promoter and attention seeker would have naturally gravitated to Mr. Obama Sr.

    This comment “I was here when he was born” is worthless as you were not present at Mr. Obama’s birth. I doubt also that you can swear under oath that you had ever visited the house Mrs. Obama, your “buddies wife” supposedly lived in on Kalaniana`ole Hwy near Hawai`i Kai.

    The two separate birth announcements appearing in the local newspapers, The Honolulu Advertiser and The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, in 1961 needing further clarification. That the two newspapers were operating out of the same building at 605 Kapi`Olani St. That more than likely, the State Dept of Health, in 1961 was not prepared to deal with a birth where validity was in question. The list of babies being printed prior to amending with Barak’s named stricken from the list. The only public and rather flimsy record contemporaneous to the time being offered to the public.

    Who were the doctor(s) and nurse(s) at Kapi`Olani that delivered Barack? My ex-wife worked at the hospital and I understand the records at Kapi’Olani are impeccable. Where are the foot prints? What public records exist that can even demonstrate that Mrs. Obama was even at Kapi’Olani on the day of Barack’s birth? Talk at Kapi`Olani, would have been unabashed, the city of Honolulu at the time very racist towards black people. Even up until the early 1990′s, as CEO of a local electrical contracting company was not allowed by my company president to employ black people. A practice that was common place at the time.

    The USA and world painting a revisionist history and falsely romantic interpretation and understanding of race issues in Hawai`i. That from post WWII, racism in Honolulu was ramped and far from subtle, stemming from general distrust for non “locals” and in particular, negatively effecting people of white and black accessory arriving from abroad. Public racist statements in the 1980-90′s by Haunani Trask, a tenured professor from the University of Hawai`i openly tolerated as being justifiable. Having once held a Hawai`ian real-estate license in the 1980′s, encountered racism frequently, all a social norm at the time.

    How did Barak’s mother get to the campus living so far from Manoa? An acquaintance of mine lived only 1.5 blocks from where Obama’s mother supposedly live on Kalaniana`ole Hwy near Hawai`i Kai. An expensive neighborhood behind Paiko lagoon and odd location for an impoverished mother and supposed UH student to live.

    A fianc? of mine, father built the subdivision in Niu Valley, and nieli “nosey” mother would have known in 1961-1962 if a black child lived in the area. A black child not associated with the military. Barack’s birth more than likely the first hapa black/white to be born in the state that year off base, if not the first ever recorded.

    In low density Hawai`ian neighborhoods, the birth of a child is as much a neighborhood event as it is family. Curiosity held by the “local” ladies would have been insatiable. All would have made or gave gifts for the new baby, if for no other reason than to see this new born, regionally unique child. I haven’t heard a single story about how someone gave this gift or that gift to the new mom or baby. Who were his local “aunties” that cared for the newborn?

    Who were these mystery people in Honolulu whose identities and kindness still have yet to be revealed and openly appreciated by Mr. Obama? Let’s be honest, a real and salacious story of this nature would not have been missed by a local Honolulu production team, Hollywood or the Discovery Channel. Yet to date, nothing of substance, detail and evidence like some sort of immaculate birth. The loudest Obama supporters like Mr. Abercrombie calling for the whole sale dilution of the Presidential vetting process.

    Probability being that Mr. Obama is perpetrating the single greatest fraud ever enacted upon this country since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. A product of the people on the mainland knowing little of the unique culture, demographics in Hawai`i and absurd nature of Mr. Obama’s claim backed by unscrupulous and or naive people. The only possible fraud remaining, that Mr. Obama could do at this point, greater in magnitude and scale, would be to try and have a team reenact this supposed birth at Kapi’Olani Medical Center. For to do so would definitely fall under the RICO Act, if not so already.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/13/how-can-america-thrive-with-a-liar-and-fraudster-in-the-office-of-the-presidency/

    And in the comments…

    Big J says:
    Thursday, January 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM
    The Federalist Blog came out with powerful evidence the other day that children born to alien fathers are not born to the subject to the jurisdiction thereof:

    http://federalistblog.us/2011/01/rebuttal_to_james_hos_birthright_op-ed.html

  145. Black Lion says:
    January 14, 2011 at 12:13 pm  (Quote)

    More Post and Fial Nonsense from the article above….

    Grand Birther says:
    Thursday, January 13, 2011 at 12:32 PM
    The Problems with Obama’s Illegal Presidency.

    1) Obama has not proven his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth beyond a reasonable doubt. There is an original long form birth certificate supposedly available to Obama, that could possibly prove his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth narrative is true, but Obama refuses to release that document.
    This gives rise to the doubt that the document really even exists.

    2) Obama has released a short form birth certificate that contains no independently verifiable information or data upon it that is not definitive proof of his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth, and does not contain the exact specific numerical location address of the birth, or name any witness to the birth, save for Obama’s Mother.

    3) Obama has released at least 2 different copies of his short form birth certificate meaning that most likely one of them is fraudulent, if not both of them. The first released document had no raised visible embossed seal, then magically a raised visible seal appeared on the second released document. No valid logical explanation has ever been offered to explain this anomaly by any Obama supporter.

    4) Hawaii DOH has refused a direct request to authenticate, and has never authenticated Obama’s released short form birth certificate. Hawaii DOH has never indicated or admitted that Obama ordered that short form birth certificate from Hawaii DOH, or that they in fact mailed that document to him, which is all perfectly legal for them to do.
    Hawaii DOH Director Fukino has made 2 official statements and given sworn testimony once, and never once indicated or said that Obama’s released short form birth certificate was an authentic document.

    5) Hawaii DOH Director Fukino has made 2 official statements and given sworn testimony once, and never specifically and clearly indicated that she had physically seen the original long form birth certificate, as opposed to just seeing that the document existed on a computer screen.
    Her carefully worded statement could in fact be true either way, yet she lets its meaning remain ambiguous rather than clearing the matter up over the course of 2 official statements and one instance of giving sworn testimony.

    6) Numerous people have said things tending to show that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. In 2007, and again in 2008 respectively, Michelle Obama said, Barack, a Kenyan, and then, Barack Obama’s home country is Kenya. Barack Obama’s own Grandmother has indicated that she was present for his birth in Kenya and never retracted what she had said herself, even though family members tried to do so for her. Various Kenyan Government officials and natives have said things like, Obama is a “Son of Kenyan soil”, and a “Native born Kenyan”. One Government official clearly stated that Obama was a Kenyan born U.S. President.
    There is a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama that has never been proven to be a forged document in any court, as no case concerning Obama’s eligibility issue has ever been heard on the merits by any court.

    7) Obama describes himself as a Native born American citizen, because as a trained Constitutional lawyer who worked on legislation as a Senator concerning Electoral fraud, he knows that he is not a Constitutionally eligible Natural born citizen, by virtue of having a Foreign Father and having dual British/Kenyan citizenship at birth and thereby having dual allegiance at birth.

    The undisputed facts are that, Obama hasn’t definitively proven his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth beyond a reasonable doubt, and to the exclusion of all other locations, nor could he ever be considered a Natural born citizen under the Constitution, or any Amendment ever made to the Constitution.

    The Constitution requires the responsibility for proving eligibility for the office of the President to fall upon the officeholder, and not on “We the People”.

    C’mon SHEEPLE, show us what you have.

  146. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 15, 2011 at 1:58 pm  (Quote)

    Here is my latest Internet Article for you to ignore. “What IF the Tucson Shooter Had Been a Birther???”

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/what-if-the-tucson-shooter-had-been-a-birther/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  147. Joey says:
    January 15, 2011 at 3:57 pm  (Quote)

    Speaking of “ignore,” I predict that the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States will “Ignore” the request for a Writ of Certiorari on Tuesday when we see “Hollister v Soetoro” on the list of appeals that have been denied “cert” without comment.

    That will mean 12 Obama eligibility applications for stays, injunctions or Writs that have been “ignored” by the Supreme Court: Berg v Obama, Beverly v FEC, Craig v US, Donofrio v Wells, Herbert v Obama, Kerchner v Obama, Lightfoot v Bowen, Schneller v Cortes, Taitz v MacDonald, Taitz’s request for injunction, Wrotnowski v Bysiewicz (and soon to be joined by “Hollister v Soetoro”).

    Since it only takes FOUR of the nine Justices to agree to grant a petition for a Writ of Certiorari, it looks like the birthers have not been able to convince Alito, Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia or Thomas to look into Obama’s constitutional eligibility.
    In related news, Senator John McCain referred to President Obama’s Tucson speech as the words of a patriot.

  148. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 15, 2011 at 4:21 pm  (Quote)

    Following up on ignore, here is another one for you Obots to mindread! A Squeekonomics one: The Great G. Gordon Liddy Gold Paradox!!!

    http://squeekonomics.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/the-great-g-gordon-liddy-gold-paradox/

    Oh, I am writing so much you Obots will just be ignoring me for hours!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  149. Dave says:
    January 15, 2011 at 10:12 pm  (Quote)

    Taitz’s blog posts an open letter from the always entertaining Miki Booth to Sen. Inhofe. She is enraged about a bill he co-sponsored in the 108th Congress. Yes, almost seven years ago. I guess Booth has a real slow fuse.

    …for the life of me I cannot understand why you along with Mary Landrieu and former OK Senator Don Nickles would presume to interpret the Constitution (which is a violation of the constitution itself) and proffer a bill (108th Congress, 2nd Session S.2128.IS) reducing to a minimum the qualifications for eligibility for the Office of President as any person born in or out of the United States as long as one parent is a citizen.

    Which is not exactly what it says — you can read it yourself at Thomas, but it roughly says that anyone born in the US, citizen parents or not, or outside the US to a citizen parent, or adopted by citizen parents.

    Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me, but other than that the letter is amusingly deranged. Like this:

    What conversations did you have with Nickles and Landrieu in the time frame leading up to February, 2004? Was Bobby Jindal discussed? Was Obama discussed? It seems to me this bill was tailor-made to clear the way for Obama, and Jindal too, for that matter, to run for president.

    Yes, I’m sure Sen. Inhofe was conspiring to install the usurper as early as 2004.

  150. Scientist says:
    January 16, 2011 at 8:01 am  (Quote)

    Dave: Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me

    Congress is perfectly entiitled to express their views on constitutional matters,as are you, me or anyone else. Courts would consider those views in making their decisions, though they are not bound by them.

  151. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:07 am  (Quote)

    The question should not be whether Congress has the ability to interpret the Constitution (in fact, Congress has a duty to interpret the Constitution. They cannot adhere to (support and defend) that which they would not interpret). The question, which must be answered in the negative, is whether Congress has the authority to modify (amend) a provision set forth in the Constitution.

    Without the Constitution, Congress would not exist. They derive their authority from the Constitution. How can they change it without destroying the foundation of their own authority?

  152. Ballantine says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:09 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: Congress is perfectly entiitled to express their views on constitutional matters,as are you, me or anyone else. Courts would consider those views in making their decisions, though they are not bound by them.

    .
    Wonder if Orly ever heard of James Madison:
    .

    “When the objection was raised that the legislature had no right to expound the Constitution, but must defer all doubtful questions of constitutional interpretation to the judiciary, Madison replied, “I beg to know upon what principle it can be contended that any one department draws from the Constitution greater powers than another, in marking out the limits of the powers of the several departments.” In reply to the contention that an act of Congress might be ignored by the courts, Madison emphatically declared that “nothing has yet been offered to invalidate the doctrine that the meaning of the constitution may as well be ascertained by the legislature as by the judicial authority.” “It is therefore a fair question,” he said, “whether this great power may not as well be decided at least by the whole legislature, as by part — by us, as well as by the executive or the judicial.”

  153. Sef says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:20 am  (Quote)

    Ballantine:
    .
    Wonder if Orly ever heard of James Madison:
    .“When the objection was raised that the legislature had no right to expound the Constitution, but must defer all doubtful questions of constitutional interpretation to the judiciary, Madison replied, “I beg to know upon what principle it can be contended that any one department draws from the Constitution greater powers than another, in marking out the limits of the powers of the several departments.” In reply to the contention that an act of Congress might be ignored by the courts, Madison emphatically declared that “nothing has yet been offered to invalidate the doctrine that the meaning of the constitution may as well be ascertained by the legislature as by the judicial authority.”“It is therefore a fair question,” he said, “whether this great power may not as well be decided at least by the whole legislature, as by part — by us, as well as by the executive or the judicial.”

    I dare say the the entire world would be a vastly different place were it not for Marbury v Madison.

  154. Scientist says:
    January 16, 2011 at 12:04 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: The question, which must be answered in the negative, is whether Congress has the authority to modify (amend) a provision set forth in the Constitution.

    Wel,l of course, Congress can amend the Constitution provided a sufficient number of state legislatures agree. However, the act referred to doesn’t amend the Constitution, rather, it codifies Congress’ opinion on what specific phrases in the document mean. Congress is perfectly entitled to state their opinion, just as anyone else is. A party with standing could challenge what Congress did and the courts might agree or disagree.

    NdH: Without the Constitution, Congress would not exist. They derive their authority from the Constitution.

    I disagree. Parliament has existed in Britain for close to 1,000 years without a written Constitution, and they have done just fine. Acts of Parliament are the supreme law of the land (at least until Britain joined the EU). Congress would exist and have full powers had the US chosen not to have a written Constitution.

  155. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 12:14 pm  (Quote)

    Sef: I dare say the the entire world would be a vastly different place were it not for Marbury v Madison.

    Don’t you mean Mugler v Kansas (1887)? After all, that is the first case in which Marbury was cited as the origin of the Court’s power to review Acts of Legislature. (Incorrectly, I might add.)

    Madison’s speech (quoted above) was presented before Congress on June 17, 1789. At that time, it was technically correct. However, on September 24, 1789 Congress, under the authority of Article I, Section 8, granted the Supreme Court the authority to determine the validity of a treaty or statute of, or an authority exercised under the United States, or of the various states, were constitutional.

    Marbury should be remembered for the dance, not for the law people incorrectly think it espoused.

  156. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 12:25 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist,

    You are conflating a simple Act of Legislation with that of a Constitutional Amendment.

    Try this: Instead of just saying what you think the law should be, why don’t you quote the provision of the U.S. Constitution from which you think Congress has been granted the authority.

    Congress has been granted the authority to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization”. That is the authority to make someone who is an alien, a naturalized citizen. Your contention is that Congress can make the alien a natural born citizen. From where do you think Congress has been granted that authority?

    You also fail to see the restrictions of power established by a written constitution. Maybe you should start by reviewing the purpose of the Magna Carta.

  157. Scientist says:
    January 16, 2011 at 12:43 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Your contention is that Congress can make the alien a natural born citizen. From where do you think Congress has been granted that authority?

    It seems (perhaps only on-line, but nevertheless) that there are differing opinions as to what the term “natural born citizen” encompasses. Are you saying that you can have an opinion on that and Mario Apuzzo can have an opinion and Dr C can have an opinion, but Congress can’t? And assuming Congress is as entitled to an opinion as you, Mario and Dr C, are they not free to express that opinion?

    NdH: You also fail to see the restrictions of power established by a written constitution. Maybe you should start by reviewing the purpose of the Magna Carta

    The Magna Carta restricted the authority of the King, not that of Parliament. In fact, Parliament’s powers are quite unrestricted, in principle. For example, by law, Parliament must dissolve itself by the 5 year anniversary of the last election. Yet the 1935 Parliament sat until 1945, due to the war. The absolute powers of Parliament have been modified only with the entry of Britain into the EU, which allows EU courts to review legislation.

  158. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 1:12 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Are you saying that you can have an opinion on that and Mario Apuzzo can have an opinion and Dr C can have an opinion, but Congress can’t? And assuming Congress is as entitled to an opinion as you, Mario and Dr C, are they not free to express that opinion?

    You know what they say about opinions. People can express any opinion they desire. That doesn’t mean it complies with established law or historical use. It also does not permit a simple Act of Legislature to modify the Constitution.

    I’m not concerned with Parliamentary procedure. We don’t operate under their rules. They provide no exception to our own.

  159. Jules says:
    January 16, 2011 at 1:23 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: The Magna Carta restricted the authority of the King, not that of Parliament. In fact, Parliament’s powers are quite unrestricted, in principle. For example, by law, Parliament must dissolve itself by the 5 year anniversary of the last election. Yet the 1935 Parliament sat until 1945, due to the war. The absolute powers of Parliament have been modified only with the entry of Britain into the EU, which allows EU courts to review legislation.

    More to the point, the Magna Carta entered into force as the law of the land by statute. It can only be regarded as taking any constitutional significance to the extent that statutes form a key part of the British constitution and the mechanism by which the constitution is changed.

    The decision to extend the life of Parliament during the war was done by statute. The exact date on which Parliament gets dissolved is part of the royal prerogative, provided that it is done by the deadline provided by statute. However, constitutional conventions dictate that monarch must only such decisions on the advice of ministers and ministers must advise a dissolution where they lose the confidence of the House of Commons.

    It is only because of the will of Parliament that the British courts were able to prevent the enforcement of an Act of Parliament in Factortame. The power to apply the supremacy of EU law came from the European Communities Act, which incorporated into UK law all the UK’s obligations under the EU treaties. If Parliament repealed the European Communities Act tomorrow, then the the supremacy of EU law would not be part of UK law even though the UK would still be a member of the EU and obligated by the EU to uphold the supremacy of EU law.

    Of course, the ECA took a greater constitutional significance than an ordinary statute because its provisions were held not to be impliedly repealed by later inconsistent legislation, departing from the reasoning of Ellen Street Estates that no Act of Parliament may immunise itself from implied repeal. The High Court went on to suggest in Thoburn v Sunderland that the ECA is part of a class of statutes that can only be repealed expressly.

  160. Scientist says:
    January 16, 2011 at 2:15 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: It also does not permit a simple Act of Legislature to modify the Constitution.

    The proposed Act would not modify the Constitution in the slightest. The document would remain unaltered. If Congress passed a law striking the term “natural born citizen” and replacing it with “pork chop” that would be beyond their power. However an act putting on record what they believe the term means is 100% within their purview.

  161. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 3:00 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: However an act putting on record what they believe the term means is 100% within their purview.

    And it has about as much effect as a beer fart does to the current weather. 🙂

    What you’re talking about is known as a non-binding resolution. If adopted, it is nothing more than a public statement of the current majority opinion as it relates to a particular subject. It has no force or effect of law. It is not passed on to the Executive. It is a legal nullity intended to inform their constituents, and the media.

    Why do you find it to be important? What would you say if the current House entered into a non-binding resolution stating that two U.S. Citizen parents, and born on U.S. soil are required to be considered a natural born citizen?

    Don’t get confused. Congress cannot “pass a law” that defines a term used in the Constitution. A non-binding resolution is not law.

  162. Scientist says:
    January 16, 2011 at 4:06 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: What would you say if the current House entered into a non-binding resolution stating that two U.S. Citizen parents, and born on U.S. soil are required to be considered a natural born citizen?

    I would vote against that if I were a Member, but Congress has a right to pass such a resolution. Anyone denied ballot access as a result would have recourse to the courts.
    Actually, since ballot access is really under the control of the states, anything Congress passes would have little practical effect.

    Congress certainlydoes pass actual laws based on their interpretation of the Constitution. In fact, every law they pass is believed by the majority to be constitutional.

  163. HellT says:
    January 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, a taxonomy of trolls. Now that would be something people would need and find very useful on a site like this. lmao

    Here ya go:

    A Guide to Internet Flame Warriors
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

  164. Rickey says:
    January 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm  (Quote)

    NdH:
    Why do you find it to be important?

    Who said that it was important? It’s just amusing that Orly Taitz would suggest that right-wing Senators Nickle and Inhofe (and Blue Dog Democrat Mary Landrieu) wanted to “clear the way” for Obama.

    If there is any importance to the bill, it is in the fact that the Senators were expressing the understanding that the citizenship of parents is irrelevant regarding a person born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and the citizenship of only one parent is relevant to the birth of someone outside of the United States.

    That said, there actually was one clause in the bill which would have been very controversial. The bill stated that “natural born citizen” would include “any person born outside the United States…who is adopted by 18 years of age by a United States citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child pursuant to an Act of Congress.”

    Of course, the bill never made it out of committee.

  165. gorefan says:
    January 16, 2011 at 7:01 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Congress has a right to pass such a resolution.

    House Republicans recently said thay would not pass anymore meanless resolutions.

  166. Northland10 says:
    January 16, 2011 at 7:10 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Congress cannot “pass a law” that defines a term used in the Constitution.

    Congress can pass any bill they darn well please. However, passing a bill and having it become a law and remain a law are much different. If they pass a bill that some feel to be unconstitutional, it could be stopped by the following:

    1. President’s veto

    2. A suit brought be a person who receives personal “injury” (or injury is imminent) to the courts which may determine that the law is unconstitutional.

    3. A repeal by the Congress as they determine that, they may lose reelection if they do not repeal the law (or it is repealed by a future Congress).

    So yes, a Congress can pass any bill, even an ex-post facto law (clearly unconstitutional) but as with everything, there may be consequences.

    Of course, since a non-binding resolution is only an opinion of the members, the only consequence may be number 3 above.

  167. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 16, 2011 at 7:48 pm  (Quote)

    OH, another GREAT Internet Article by me!!! You Obots are going to have full time jobs ignoring all my stuff!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/yoohoo-paul-krugman-where-are-you/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  168. Dave says:
    January 16, 2011 at 8:17 pm  (Quote)

    I see my comment in regard to Miki Booth’s open letter to Sen. Inhofe “Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me, but other than that the letter is amusingly deranged” has led to more discussion that I would have thought.

    I was of course speaking more concisely than correctly (since this point was somewhat tangential to the comment it appeared in). Indeed Congress can’t do their job without having a view about what the Constitution says. And the Senate can and does pass resolutions about anything they want, and that could include an interpretation of the Constitution. As it did in the famous resolution that Sen. McCain is a natural born citizen.

    But the ancient bill Booth was referring to shows every sign of being intended to become a law, and explicitly did nothing but tell us what the Constitution means by “natural born”. Even if passed by both Houses and signed by the President, I seriously doubt the courts would pay it the slightest attention. Which is probably why the thing died in committee without consideration.

  169. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 16, 2011 at 9:44 pm  (Quote)

    FINALLY, you Obots agree with me!!! OH Happy Day!!! Thank you Fut!!! I did a Internet Article!!! But I kept you anonymous!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/the-obots-finally-agree-with-squeeky/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  170. NdH says:
    January 16, 2011 at 10:17 pm  (Quote)

    Dave: I seriously doubt the courts would pay it the slightest attention.

    How could they? Who would have standing? Other than a restriction to the Office of President, natural born citizen is a meaningless term. It would be at least 35 years before someone, born under the application of the new statute would meet the age requirement. (unless Congress would make it retroactive.)

    And if it did so happen that someone affected by the statute did win the election, and a like-thinking Congress certified the election, current history dictates that all cases would be dismissed. The only way to undo it would be by impeachment (or so I have been told), and the Congress that certified the election is not likely to look back on what they had jst approved.

  171. Rickey says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:29 pm  (Quote)

    NdH:
    Other than a restriction to the Office of President, natural born citizen is a meaningless term. It would be at least 35 years before someone, born under the application of the new statute would meet the age requirement.

    You’re assuming that the law would have actually changed the status quo. Only the third clause in the law would have altered the status quo.

    Apart from Vattelists, there is universal agreement that anyone born in the United States is a natural-born citizen, so the law would have had no effect upon those people.

    There is wide agreement, but not universal agreement, that anyone born a U.S. citizen at birth is a natural born citizen, so the law most likely would have had no effect upon those people.

    The third clause in the proposed statute, declaring that anyone born abroad but adopted by a U.S. citizen prior to the age of 18 is a natural born citizen, would in fact have been a radical departure from the generally-accepted meaning of natural born citizen.

  172. Dave says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:34 pm  (Quote)

    BTW, the Constitutional Hydrologist has announced… well, let’s hear it in her own words:

    I will tell you that I felt concerned enough for my safety to have quickly relocated out of ND. I will be residing in a constitutional carry state (open and concealed carry without a permit) and I will be packing at all times.

    I can’t help wondering why, if she really feels the need to carry concealed, she finds it preferable to move to a state that doesn’t require a permit, instead of just staying in ND and getting a permit.

  173. Daniel says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:38 pm  (Quote)

    Great, that’s all we need. More nutbags packing heat.

  174. Black Lion says:
    January 16, 2011 at 11:52 pm  (Quote)

    More Michelle Obama derangement…

    Conservatives Go Off On Michelle Obama For… Preaching Tolerance?
    January 14, 2011 10:38 pm ET by Solange Uwimana

    In the latest entry in our ever-expanding Obama Derangement Syndrome series, the right-wing media are attacking Michelle Obama for a letter she addressed to parents in the wake of the tragic shooting in Tucson, Arizona. Conservatives are professing outrage that Obama would dare speak of “tolerance” following a shooting rampage that left six dead and over a dozen wounded, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

    Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft, who’s not known for turning away any opportunity to attack the Obamas, led the charge this morning with a post titled, “Michelle Obama: We Can Use the Tucson Shootings to Teach Our Children Tolerance …Huh?” Hoft writes: “Some disturbed mental case goes on a shooting spree at a Safeway after months and years of bizarre behavior and Michelle Obama wants your kids to be more tolerant? That’s so not right.”

    In the letter, Michelle Obama writes that the tragedy “makes us think about what an event like this says about the world we live in — and the world in which our children will grow up,” and tells parents that it provides “an opportunity for us as parents to teach some valuable lessons — about the character of our country, about the values we hold dear, and about finding hope at a time when it seems far away.”

    She goes on to write:

    We can teach our children that here in America, we embrace each other, and support each other, in times of crisis. And we can help them do that in their own small way — whether it’s by sending a letter, or saying a prayer, or just keeping the victims and their families in their thoughts.

    We can teach them the value of tolerance — the practice of assuming the best, rather than the worst, about those around us. We can teach them to give others the benefit of the doubt, particularly those with whom they disagree.

    We can also teach our children about the tremendous sacrifices made by the men and women who serve our country and by their families. We can explain to them that although we might not always agree with those who represent us, anyone who enters public life does so because they love their country and want to serve it.

    That was apparently too much for Rush Limbaugh, who replied: “I don’t know if she got the message that her husband attempted in his inimitable, exclusive, and brilliant manner Wednesday night.”

    While reading excerpts from the letter about children asking difficult questions in the wake of the tragedy, Limbaugh said:

    LIMBAUGH: What’s so hard to answer about this? Why did this happen? Because there are crazy people in the world. That’s why it happened. There are crazy people in the world. You might want to add: There are crazy people in the world who don’t yet realize the brilliance of your father. But there are crazy people in the world.

    […]

    LIMBAUGH: Answers are very simple. There are crazy people in the world that need to be institutionalized. You might want to throw in that the Republicans made them that way if that makes you feel better but just throw in that they are some crazy people that need to be institutionalized.

    […]

    LIMBAUGH: What does any of this got to do with children being afraid because of what happened in Tucson? See, Michelle did not get the memo from — I guess she wasn’t even listening to her husband make the speech where she said, all — where he said, all this doesn’t matter, but — he did have a “but” in there. He always has a “but,” which cancels out whatever has preceded the “but.”

    Limbaugh later said: “So we can help our children by giving them the criminally false impression that the healthy political debate in this country led to this bloodshed. Is that what Mrs. Obama is continuing to say here?”

    In a January 14 post on the Sweetness & Light blog titled, “Michelle: Killings Show Need For Tolerance,” Steve Gilbert also attacked Michelle Obama, asking: “What lessons? That we need to institutionalize people who act crazy?” Gilbert continued: “This is outrageous. … Mr. Obama had better have a talk with his wife. And he had better disabuse his daughters, before they end up as woefully deluded as the Kennedy children about who killed their father and uncle.”

    During her Fox News show, Megyn Kelly said “no one” is going to question Michelle Obama for reaching out to parents to ask them to teach tolerance. However, she then suggested it was “disingenuous” of the first lady to say “tolerance” is the “lesson that we should take away from what we saw in Tucson.” Radio talk host Chris Plante agreed, saying “it’s pretty clear that that’s not the lesson we should take away” and that we should be focusing on civility instead. He further stated that Michelle Obama is “perpetuat[ing]” the “false narrative” that “all of the rough language comes from one side of the ideological aisle and anybody who’s paying attention clearly knows that that’s not the case.” Kelly replied:

    KELLY: A lot of folks have been saying, even folks on the right, that they’re happy to have that discussion. If you want to shift the discussion to civility in politics, then we can have that discussion but they — what they’ve objected to is the linkage, like, the need for that discussion, tying it to the Tucson shootings. And the president was very careful not to do that when he spoke in Tucson the other night.

    What’s interesting about Michelle Obama’s letter is she seems less careful because she’s talking about the lessons we need to teach our children in the wake of that tragedy and she says that tolerance and giving others the benefit of the doubt, even those with whom you disagree, are two of the lessons. And I, again, I mean, those are good things to teach your children, but the question is, is she sort of throwing critics on the left a bone by saying, indeed those are actual lessons that we should have learned from Saturday?

    Kelly went on to say: “I thought that the president’s remarks nicely moved us past trying to blame political ideology for these acts, as opposed to mental illness. And the question for you is simply whether the first lady means to take us back to that place or whether that’s just an unfair tie that we’re ascribing to that letter.” Plante replied in part that while Michelle Obama preaching “tolerance is a good thing,” “they should tolerate Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News a little more and stop trying to accuse people of having blood on their hands for the actions of a lone gunman.” He continued:

    PLANTE: It really has become pretty outrageous. Is Jodie Foster now responsible for the shooting of President Reagan? Are the Beatles now responsible for the Tate-LaBianca murders. At least there is actual linkage in those two cases, which is something that can’t be said about this case — which means that, in the end, it’s a terrible slander and it is being perpetuated by this letter at least to some degree or another.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101140057

  175. G says:
    January 17, 2011 at 2:03 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion: The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty. Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”

    Oh, another irony meter explodes! In other words, the P&E just explained why what they do is NOT journalism. The only thing they trade in is rumor, innuendo, and falsehood.

  176. G says:
    January 17, 2011 at 2:18 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion: More Michelle Obama derangement…

    Conservatives Go Off On Michelle Obama For… Preaching Tolerance?
    January 14, 2011 10:38 pm ET by Solange Uwimana

    Wow. Limbaugh and those other folks are just frothing insane! NOTHING in Michelle Obama’s letter places blame on any particular group. Her letter is as neutral a statement as can be made and simply asks for people to be respectful of each other.

    Only those who truly know they are guilty of acting badly would take such a neutral statement as a personal attack on themselves. It speaks volumes when certain voices react as angry victims against any general neutral plea towards mere rational, responsible adult behavior…

  177. charo says:
    January 17, 2011 at 10:40 am  (Quote)

    Does anyone have a copy of Dreams from My Father to verify the accuracy of the quote within this statement?

    “Unlike my mum,” Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, “Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.” …

    There is no page number given so one would have to be familiar with the contents of the book. It is from the following link (which is not listed on the bad or ugly list on Doc’s home page so I am providing it)

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/what_obama_has_said_about_his.html

  178. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 17, 2011 at 11:06 am  (Quote)

    charo: Does anyone have a copy of Dreams from My Father to verify the accuracy of the quote within this statement?

    The quote is authentic. The American Thinker should be on the ugly list.

  179. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 17, 2011 at 11:39 am  (Quote)

    charo: “Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was

    The quote is indeed authentic but American thinker’s narrative is a lie. It wasn’t Obama speaking in the passage but rather Auma.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA345&lpg=PA345&dq=dreams+from+my+father+%E2%80%9CRuth+has+all+the+documents+needed+to+prove+who+Mark%E2%80%99s+father+was%22&source=bl&ots=PFey724LZH&sig=canXUigeG1DdxWd09ktF6oQ36z8&hl=en&ei=2m40TYqtOYK8lQeh7fz7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

    The key to figure out who is talking is this bit: She looked away for a moment, then broke out with a short, bitter laughter.

    “What’s so funny?” <—– This is Obama speaking
    This is then followed by Auma speaking
    "I was thinking about how life is so strange. You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to inheritance. Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was. So of all of the Old Man's kids, Mark's claim is the only one uncontested"

    That is the full passage. As you can see from the passage it was Auma speaking about not having all the documentation not Obama. American Thinker can't read or knowingly distorted the passage and added words to it

  180. charo says:
    January 17, 2011 at 1:29 pm  (Quote)

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    The quote is indeed authentic but American thinker’s narrative is a lie.It wasn’t Obama speaking in the passage but rather Auma.http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA345&lpg=PA345&dq=dreams+from+my+father+%E2%80%9CRuth+has+all+the+documents+needed+to+prove+who+Mark%E2%80%99s+father+was%22&source=bl&ots=PFey724LZH&sig=canXUigeG1DdxWd09ktF6oQ36z8&hl=en&ei=2m40TYqtOYK8lQeh7fz7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=falseThe key to figure out who is talking is this bit:She looked away for a moment, then broke out with a short, bitter laughter.“What’s so funny?” <—– This is Obama speaking
    This is then followed by Auma speaking
    “I was thinking about how life is so strange.You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to inheritance.Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.So of all of the Old Man’s kids, Mark’s claim is the only one uncontested”That is the full passage.As you can see from the passage it was Auma speaking about not having all the documentation not Obama.American Thinker can’t read or knowingly distorted the passage and added words to it

    When I didn’t see a page number, it seemed suspicious. (The link you gave is missing the prior page, and I would have liked to have seen the context, but nonetheless, those quoted words are Auma’s.) More importantly, if the comment as he wrote it were true, then there would be no purpose to write a whole book.

  181. Rickey says:
    January 17, 2011 at 2:45 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    When I didn’t see a page number, it seemed suspicious.(The link you gave is missing the prior page, and I would have liked to have seen the context, but nonetheless, those quotedwords are Auma’s.)More importantly, if the comment as he wrote it were true, then there would be no purpose to write a whole book.

    I can help a little.

    Auma is Obama’s half-sister. Mark is Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo, half-brother to both Auma and Barack Obama. All three are children of Barack Obama Sr., but all three have different mothers. Ruth is Mark’s mother. The “Old Man” in the conversation is their father. Obama has three other half-brothers and two more “alleged” half brothers.

    Obama and Auma were discussing the fact that Mark’s mother, Ruth, had documentation that Barack Sr. was Mark’s father, but Auma’s mother did not have documentation that Barack Sr. was Auma’s father. Therefore, there were some issues about who was entitled to the inheritance.

    American Thinker has completely distorted the meaning of the passage.

  182. obsolete says:
    January 17, 2011 at 3:43 pm  (Quote)

    Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and should soon be looking for a new blog to haunt.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    6. I AM TOO really smart!
    7- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  183. Sef says:
    January 17, 2011 at 4:31 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and should soon be looking for a new blog to haunt.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    6. I AM TOO really smart!
    7- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

  184. Black Lion says:
    January 17, 2011 at 5:48 pm  (Quote)

    G: Wow. Limbaugh and those other folks are just frothing insane! NOTHING in Michelle Obama’s letter places blame on any particular group. Her letter is as neutral a statement as can be made and simply asks for people to be respectful of each other.Only those who truly know they are guilty of acting badly would take such a neutral statement as a personal attack on themselves. It speaks volumes when certain voices react as angry victims against any general neutral plea towards mere rational, responsible adult behavior…

    G, Agreed….This just shows how no matter what the President and the Mrs. Obama does they right will always attack and vilify him for whatever reason….

  185. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 17, 2011 at 6:12 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, I am soooo happy I read things and DON’T ignore stuff!!! Because I never would have caught you Obots admitting this is a issue that needs to be resolved!!! Then, I couldn’t have busted you out in this Internet Article!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/eligibility-extortion-and-blackmail-the-new-obama-tactic/

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  186. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    Sef:
    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

    OH, I am sorry I did not see your Internet threat to tell lies to federal agents about me!!! But anyway, about “haunting” somebody’s blog. I won’t “haunt” here. I will just pop in and out when there are “Open Threads” and post links to my new articles so you can ignore them. Because to me, it is sooo funny that I have just debated Obots into speechlessness!!! Plus it is funny to me, that when I accuse you of having a Lemming mentality, and some of you say you don’t, that you act just like lemmings and all ignore me as a group!!!

    Plus, it is not like many of you ever had anything smart to say anyway. But OH I am just loving the way that the non-issue here on this thread, is just such a big issue on another thread!!! And all the “frothy insanity” that is just soooo uni-directional!!! “Open-minded Obots” are one of those oxymoron things!!!

    Be sure to keep your bow ties near and your nikes clean for the Mother Ship!!! (my friend Fabia thought of that one!)

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  187. Sef says:
    January 17, 2011 at 6:47 pm  (Quote)

    Sef:
    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

    The FBI also has femalebeasts.

  188. Black Lion says:
    January 18, 2011 at 10:29 am  (Quote)

    I guess Simple Sarah did not come off looking “Presidential” with her response last week to the AZ shootings….

    “Sarah Palin’s response to Arizona shooting earned thumbs down from most Americans: survey

    Sarah Palin’s response to the deadly Arizona shootings fell flat with many Americans – including many of her supporters, according to a new poll.
    Only 30% of those surveyed in a new ABC News-Washington Post poll approved of the way Palin responded to the deadly rampage, while 78% approved of the way President Obama handled it.
    Forty-six percent of people surveyed disapproved with the way Palin handled the situation.
    Even John McCain, the President’s opponent in the 2008 race, commended his political opponent on his actions following the massacre.
    “We are Americans and fellow human beings, and that shared distinction is so much more important than the disputes that invigorate our noisy, rough-and-tumble political culture,” he wrote in an editorial for the Washington Post on Sunday. “That is what I heard the President say on Wednesday evening. I commend and thank him for it.”
    While many politicians called for unity after the national tragedy, Palin found herself at the center of a partisan debate after a 2010 ad created by her camp was criticized for depicting Gabrielle Giffords’ district with cross-hairs over it, and many people blamed heated rhetoric for the attempted assassination.
    Things got worse for Palin when she started attacking the media and critics through material posted on her website and Facebook account.
    “Journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn,” she wrote. “That is reprehensible.”
    The term “blood libel” has historically been used to refer to the false claim that Jews used the blood of Christian children for rituals.
    According to the ABC-Post poll released on Monday, the former Alaska governor even disappointed her own party. Less than half of Republicans surveyed said they approved of the way she handled the shootings.
    The failure to connect with people in the face of tragedy may deeply hurt her presidential goals if she has them, pundits said.
    “Palin, who is so expert in capturing the feelings, frustrations and hopes of a certain segment of the population, demonstrated no range,” Slate columnist John Dickerson wrote. “She offered nothing to meet this moment. Her remarks were defensive, illogical, and distracting.”
    Palin, however, is never without a strong group of supporters.
    Shortly after the shootings, Fox News contributor Glenn Beck emailed her to see how she was holding up after the barrage of criticism and even death threats he said she received. On Monday night, she will appear on Sean Hannity’s show in what could be a first step to rebuilding her image.
    Hannity, a conservative commentator, has fiercely defended Palin in light of her latest controversy.
    “If you are being accused of being an accessory to murder, don’t you think you are going to respond? Of course,” he said on “Fox and Friends” Monday morning.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/18/2011-01-18_liberals_cant_silence_me__defiant_palin.html

  189. Sef says:
    January 18, 2011 at 11:32 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion: I guess Simple Sarah did not come off looking “Presidential” with her response last week to the AZ shootings….

    One thing is crystal clear about Sister Sarah & her ilk. She is the type who is guaranteed to self-destruct. The events since ’08 have not dis-proven this.

  190. Black Lion says:
    January 18, 2011 at 11:43 am  (Quote)

    Great wrap up from Keith Olbermann regarding this issue…If you have the chance read the transacript or watch the video….

    Keith Olbermann Special Comment: 9 Days Have Passed & The Willful Blindness Hasn’t Even Slowed Down

    “They said it was everybody else’s fault. And they often said it with more violence than before.
    In approximate chronological order:

    Last Monday, while most on both sides were looking askance at the wealth of bogus documents that now traditionally follow these things, a writer at the discredited Breitbart site posted the headline, “Whoops! This Changes Things — Loughner’s Hero Was Barack Obama.”

    Jim Hoft breathlessly cited a reference on the Free Republic’ site to a Facebook page supposedly belonging to Jared Lee Loughner, complete with references to the quote “racist Tea Party” and “fight the Right,” and identifying his ” heroes” as Obama, Chavez, Che Guevara, and Saul Alinsky.

    Mr. Hoft never noticed that on the alleged Loughner facebook page, the word “tyrrany” is misspelled and so is the name Loughner.”

    http://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/keith-olbermann-special-comment-9-days-have-passed-the-willful-blindness-hasnt-even-slowed-down/

  191. Lupin says:
    January 18, 2011 at 12:25 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: identifying his ” heroes” as Obama, Chavez, Che Guevara, and Saul Alinsky.

    They really are ignoramuses. They respond to talking points like trained seals to a fish, without any understanding whatsoever of the issues involved.

    None of these four names have rally anything in common ideologically — even Chavez and Guevara, the closes of the four, is a long stretch.

    If their Overlords told them to include Babar in the list (left-wing African monarch with ties to France) they would just go ahead and brainlessly add him to the list.

    It really is pathetic. Frankly, I don’t know any other country in the world that has political debates at that level.

  192. Rickey says:
    January 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm  (Quote)

    Cert denied.

    No. 10-678
    Title:
    Gregory S. Hollister, Petitioner
    v.
    Barry Soetoro, et al.
    Docketed: November 23, 2010
    Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit
    Case Nos.: (09-5080)
    Decision Date: March 22, 2010
    Rehearing Denied: August 23, 2010

    ~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nov 22 2010 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due December 23, 2010)
    Nov 22 2010 Appendix of Gregory S. Hollister filed. (Volumes I, II, III)
    Dec 22 2010 Waiver of right of respondents Barry Soetoro, et al. to respond filed.
    Dec 29 2010 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of January 14, 2011.
    Dec 30 2010 Request for recusal received from petitioner.
    Jan 18 2011 Petition DENIED.

  193. Bovril says:
    January 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm  (Quote)

    Lupin: If their Overlords told them to include Babar in the list (left-wing African monarch with ties to France) they would just go ahead and brainlessly add him to the list.

    Knowing bIrfoons that then bugger that up and send the flying monkey brigade after Babar the Elephant

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babar_the_Elephant

  194. Rickey says:
    January 18, 2011 at 1:42 pm  (Quote)

    How dishonest is Joseph Farah? WND put up this headline on its website today:

    Arizona statute could endanger Giffords’ hold on seat
    Office shall be deemed vacant if unable to ‘discharge duties for 3 consecutive months’

    The WND headline links to a Washington Post article which says just the opposite.

    It seems that Arizona has a statute which says that if a public officeholder fails to perform his or her duties for three consecutive months, the office shall be deemed vacant and a special election is held. However, the Post article says that the statute doesn’t apply to Federal officeholders:

    Paul Bender, a constitutional scholar and a former dean of the Arizona State University College of Law, said that any determination of a vacancy would have to be made by Congress.

    “The state has no right to say what the duties of a congresswoman are,” he said. “The state has no right to say when the office becomes vacant.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011702542.html?hpid=topnews

  195. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 18, 2011 at 2:08 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: How dishonest is Joseph Farah? WND put up this headline on its website today:Arizona statute could endanger Giffords’ hold on seatOffice shall be deemed vacant if unable to discharge duties for 3 consecutive months’The WND headline links to a Washington Post article which says just the opposite.It seems that Arizona has a statute which says that if a public officeholder fails to perform his or her duties for three consecutive months, the office shall be deemed vacant and a special election is held. However, the Post article says that the statute doesn’t apply to Federal officeholders:Paul Bender, a constitutional scholar and a former dean of the Arizona State University College of Law, said that any determination of a vacancy would have to be made by Congress.“The state has no right to say what the duties of a congresswoman are,” he said. “The state has no right to say when the office becomes vacant.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011702542.html?hpid=topnews

    Oh Rickey ye of little pornstache, you know damned well that the Statutes say whatever Farrah decides they say.

  196. Black Lion says:
    January 18, 2011 at 3:15 pm  (Quote)

    What? Joey Farah and WND lie? Say it isn’t so…lol. The more startling revelation would be if WND actually told the truth……

    Anyway how pathetic are the birthers….Look how they recycle debunked information from 7 months ago and pretend that it is breaking news….

    Paula
    January 18, 2011 at 6:38 am
    Found this on FreeRepublic along with these comments:

    http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/06/27/barry-soetoro-new-evidence-obama-can-run-but-he-cant-hide-from-himself-lies-and-bribery-and-forgery-follow-obama/

    This blog (and several others) contain several interesting statements that I have not seen before.

    1) The Obama’s mother was in Mombasa, was not allowed to board a plane to return, went swimming, and then was rushed to Coast General Hospital to give birth August 4 1961, returning to Hawaii four days later where the birth was then registered— as is allowed by Hawaiian law.

    2) A long letter from a Kenyan teacher, also born in 1961, comparing his BC to Obama’s Mombasa BC.

    3) Confirmation that Sir Edward F. Lavender was indeed the colonial registrar for Mombasa in 1961, Source: “Kenya Dominion Record 4667 Australian library.”

    Food for thought? Can anyone research any of this further?

    In any case, a very interesting read …

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/

    Even more funny are the number of actually posters….You basically have about 5 or 6 hardcore ones lead by Papoose, Atlas Daughter, and Quantam Leap….

  197. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 18, 2011 at 4:30 pm  (Quote)

    Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.html

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  198. Black Lion says:
    January 18, 2011 at 4:44 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.htmlSqueeky FrommGirl Reporter

    Interesting…But not as interesting as this…

    “But the political news cycle can’t seem to churn these days without some discussion of Palin. And since the former Alaska governor was all over the airwaves Wednesday, several commentators contrasted Palin’s video response — which spoke of “blood libel” perpetrated against her — and Obama’s speech.

    Former Bush speechwriter David Frum said on MSNBC Wednesday night that Palin had grounds to be upset with media coverage linking the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) with controversial rhetoric from the Palin camp — such as a 2010 campaign map that depicted congressional target districts including Giffords’ with gun sights, released the same day that Palin urged supporters not to retreat but “reload.”

    But Frum said such coverage was “not as hurtful as what was done to the people who are the actual victims here. … And you would think that this would be a moment where you could reach beyond your own personal feelings of hurt to something bigger.”

    David Corn of liberal Mother Jones magazine gave less ground to Palin. He said Obama “was wonderfully presidential, gave a marvelous speech, and spoke to really the better nature of our angels across the board,” while Palin “tried to make this whole tragedy about her, and compared the criticism against her to the genocidal persecution of an entire people.”
    ……

    On Thursday morning, other political writers continued noting differences in Obama’s and Palin’s responses.

    The Daily Beast’s Lloyd Grove, in a piece titled “Mourner-in-Chief’s Eulogy Puts Palin to Shame,” pointed out the contrast in settings. The possible 2012 Republican contender “had to serve up her remarks, really a litany of complaints against her critics and political adversaries, while seated in front of a non-working stone fireplace, apparently at her home in Wasilla—a claustrophobic setting framed by an outsize American flag.”

    Obama, he wrote, “got to deliver his affecting half-hour of heartfelt reflection and soulful inspiration — repeatedly interrupted by standing ovations — to an arena at the University of Arizona filled to the rafters with 14,000 mourners” including leading political figures, Giffords’ doctors and her husband, astronaut Mark Kelly.

    And Politico’s Jonathan Martin wrote Thursday on how “Obama [took] the opportunity Palin missed.”

    “At sunrise in the East on Wednesday, Sarah Palin demonstrated that she has little interest — or capacity — in moving beyond her brand of grievance-based politics,” Martin wrote. “And at sundown in the West, Barack Obama reminded even his critics of his ability to rally disparate Americans around a message of reconciliation.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110113/ts_yblog_thecutline/media-gives-obama-high-marks-for-arizona-speech-contrast-with-palins-response

    “President Barack Obama’s approval ratings have surged in two polls conducted since he delivered his well-received speech on the Tucson shooting – with even the vast majority of Republicans giving the president high marks for how he’s handled the tragedy.

    In a Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday morning, 54 percent of Americans said they approve of how Obama is doing his job, while 43 percent disapprove.

    His approval rating is the highest it’s been in the poll since April, while his disapproval was last as low as 43 percent in March 2010. In December, 49 percent of Americans surveyed for the Post-ABC poll approved of Obama’s performance, while 47 percent disapproved.

    A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also released Tuesday pegged the president’s approval rating at 53 percent and his disapproval at 43 percent. In December, the poll showed Americans evenly divided, with his approval and disapproval rates both at 48 percent.”

    http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-poll-numbers-rise

  199. Greg says:
    January 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.htmlSqueeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Doesn’t that mean Palin has to come out and prove she wasn’t involved. I mean, that’s the conclusion you take from some number of Americans believing Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii (or thinking Hawaii isn’t part of the US.)

    How many millions of Americans believe this falsehood?

  200. Daniel says:
    January 18, 2011 at 8:19 pm  (Quote)

    I think we need some rat traps in here. I keep hearing a Squeaking noise.

    You know how those squeaky things can spread disease.

  201. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 18, 2011 at 10:04 pm  (Quote)

    Squeek, squeek: “Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Ceritificate???” It’s on Drudge.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  202. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 18, 2011 at 10:16 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Squeek, squeek:“Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Certificate???” It’s on Drudge.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Squeek, squeek! I thought Frujinko had seen it???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  203. Whatever4 says:
    January 18, 2011 at 11:34 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Squeek, squeek:“Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Ceritificate???” It’s on Drudge.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Reading the article carefully, I believe he’s talking about the Index Data, which can be released with no problem. Anything else would fall under restricted records.

  204. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:04 am  (Quote)

    I suspect a Long Form or something will show up, yet. Abercrombie CAN’T not follow through on his promise. Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    .

  205. Greg says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.

    Do you remember Dan Burton? Google “Dan Burton Watermelon” or “Dan Burton Pumpkin” (a recent New Yorker article suggested the actual fruit involved was uncertain). From Wikipedia, here’s a snippet about Burton’s pumpkin fetish:

    Rep. Burton led the House inquiry into the death of Vincent Foster; he was convinced that Foster was murdered and urged extensive investigation into the possible involvement of the Clintons. Burton gained attention for re-enacting the alleged crime in his backyard with his own pistol and a pumpkin standing in for Foster’s head. After hearings into Democratic fundraising (see section below) began, a Democratic National Committee staffer appeared in a pumpkin suit with a button that read, “Don’t shoot.”

    Birthers are Obama’s Dan Burton. You’re better than Dan Burton, though, since you are completely non-credible! Burton had subpoena power. You guys don’t. When a Republican can be credibly linked to birthers, he becomes impotent and unelectable. Senator JD Hayworth? Not after the devastating ads run by McCain (“our economy is in shambles and Hayworth wastes his time on stupid conspiracy theories?”).

    Put yourself in Obama’s shoes.

    He’s got enemies who make the gang who couldn’t shoot straight look like constitutional lawyers.
    He’s published the official document he got when he sent his money in to get a birth certificate.
    The State of Hawaii has vouched for his birth in the state, several times.
    The mainstream media, from MSNBC to Fox, ostracizing. rightly, anyone who raises the issue.
    The people who think he wasn’t born here are the ones who think he’s a commie pinko socialist Nazi out to kill their grandparents.

    Honestly, if Obama had to choose his enemies, he couldn’t have done a better job than the birthers. He’d love to see more of you, in fact, and less of the tea-partiers.

    If I were you, I’d wonder if I hadn’t been played this whole time. I’d be asking myself if I could have been investigating Rezko this whole time. If Abercrombie wasn’t putting this possibility out there to give some credence to the birthers just so they could be smacked down again.

  206. G says:
    January 19, 2011 at 2:57 am  (Quote)

    Whatever4:
    Reading the article carefully, I believe he’s talking about the Index Data, which can be released with no problem. Anything else would fall under restricted records.

    Yeah, but it is a WND article, so I’d take the whole thing with a grain of salt. They’ve been so full of bunk and manufactured l.i.e.s. in the past, that they are just nowhere close to a credible source. They are nothing but a smear and propaganda tank with an agenda.

    I’ll wait for real news organizations to interview Abercrombie again. To date, any actual reports and interviews of him that use his own words instead of just adding their own speculative interpretation have only shown that he’s promised to merely inquire into what can be provided.

    If he asks those questions and is told that certain info can’t be released…well, that’s an answer to the question too.

  207. Bovril says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:26 am  (Quote)

    G, W4

    WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    As usual with old Corsi the ACTUAL write up is a tissue of supposition and BS.

    The Governor had a chat with ANOTHER paper not WND (that’s what pisses Corsi off)

    The interview was NOT about the BS imaginary Birfoon fantasies but the role of the Governor and his tasks ahead

    The ACTUAL Q+A is

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    The Governor states, simply enough, even for the brain damaged such as Birfoons that the records of birth exist, that he can’t do squat about it as NOTHING WILL EVER SATISFY the insane Birfoon.

  208. The Magic M says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:39 am  (Quote)

    > The people who think he wasn’t born here are the ones who think he’s a commie pinko socialist Nazi out to kill their grandparents.

    You forgot “Muslim who is not even really black”, otherwise it sums up pretty well what the mindset of the average birther comprises.

  210. G says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:11 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: G, W4

    WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    As usual with old Corsi the ACTUAL write up is a tissue of supposition and BS.

    The Governor had a chat with ANOTHER paper not WND (that’s what pisses Corsi off)

    The interview was NOT about the BS imaginary Birfoon fantasies but the role of the Governor and his tasks ahead

    The ACTUAL Q+A is

    Thanks Bovril. Do you have links to the source?

  211. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:14 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: I suspect a Long Form or something will show up, yet. Abercrombie CAN’T not follow through on his promise. Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter.

    The most important question is why you keep avoiding the fact that he HAS…

  212. Rickey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:33 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: G, W4WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    WND also had a headline which said that Rep. Giffords could be forced to give up her seat in House if she isn’t able to perform her duties for three consecutive months. However, the story it linked to says just the opposite – the applicable Arizona law only applies to state political offices. The headline has since been pulled from the front page.

  213. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 12:53 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Thanks Bovril.Do you have links to the source?

    Not to speak for Bovril, of course, but here’s the interview in the Star Advertiser with Governor Neil Abercrombie:

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

  214. Black Lion says:
    January 19, 2011 at 1:14 pm  (Quote)

    Ridiculous crap from the seditious bunch known as the American Grand Jury AKA “We Hate American because they elected a Black Man President”….The printed nonsense that is too long to post but worth reading to see how they still recycle some of the same debunked information pretending that it is somehow true….

    Below I have posted some excerpts but you need to read the entire article to see how far removed from reality the writer of the article really is…If Doc was here he would have made this its own article…

    http://americangrandjury.org/50-reasons-why-america-should-examine-obamas-past

    50 Reasons WHY America Should Examine Obama’s Past
    January 16th, 2011
    If the American people are ever blessed to have Obama’s secret biography deliberated by an unbiased authority, with higher intelligence, the following will have to be addressed on the merits of legitimacy.

    Essay by Penbrook Johannson

    1. The Definition of “Natural-Born Citizenship”. The U.S. Constitution requires that a presidential candidate be a Natural-Born Citizen in order to be eligible for the office of President.
    ……..

    Therefore, theoretically, Natural-born citizenship, in its purest, ineradicable form, could be measured by three metrics: 1.) Biological conception by two U.S. citizen parents, 2.) birth in a geographic region under the protection of the U.S. Constitution and 3.) maintenance of that citizenship status without any unnatural interruption of parentage, legal process or administrative procedure.

    This means that their citizenship has never been achieved by any legal or administration process at or after birth. Dual citizens and expatriates are not Natural-Born Citizens. Those who lose their Natural-born status by taking the citizenship of another country or denouncing their Natural Born U.S. citizenship cannot regain it. A Natural-born citizen is one who was born within a geographic region under the protections of the U.S. Constitution AND to two U.S. citizen parents, they being either natural-born or legally naturalized through immigration or repatriation. Despite ongoing, unanswered questions about his geographic origins, Obama does not meet the requirements to be a Natural-Born citizen for two possible other reasons: 1.) because his alleged biological father, Barack Obama Sr., was not a U.S. Citizen and 2.) he was adopted by his Muslim, Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetoro, in the mid 1960s thereby taking Indonesian citizenship, thus forfeiting Natural-born status [which Obama never had such “natural born” status in the first place.. emphasis mine].

    4. Logan Act Violated By Obama. With this mind, we learned, in October, 2008, that American author and columnist, Jerome Corsi was arrested while visiting Kenya during an investigation which revealed that Barack Obama had actively campaigned for and contributed money to Kenya’s Democratic Socialist Orange Party candidate, Raila Odinga, from 2006 to 2008. Corsi had traveled to Kenya and acquired correspondence and documented evidence showing that Odinga, a fellow Luo tribe descendant and alleged paternal cousin of Obama, had entered into a written agreement with the National Muslim Leaders Forum (NAMLEF), a highly influential and radical Kenyan Islamic foundation, seeking Odinga’s support for, among other things, Sharia Law, in exchange for the Islamic group’s support of Odinga’s candidacy. The evidence acquired by Corsi also shows that Obama was aware of this agreement even while he was raising more than a million dollars of American money to support Odinga’s campaign. The Orange Party Movement is the communist opposition party to President, Mwai Kibaki’s Party of National Unity (PNU). Obama’s involvement in the Kenyan election, while an elected official of the U.S., was clearly a violation the Logan Act which prohibits American politicians from influencing or participating in foreign elections. The Obama Administration’s U.S. Attorney General, Eric Holder, has refused to pursue any investigation of Obama’s activities with Odinga in Kenya in 2006 until 2008. In 2008, video of Obama’s speeches on behalf of Odinga surfaced on YouTube and several other websites which clearly show Obama stumping for Odinga.

    5. Suspicious Nomination Certifications. In July, 2009, documents were revealed showing that Obama was never officially certified to run for president under the provisions of the U.S. Constitution, by the Hawaiian Democratic Party.

    8. Hawaiian Certi-Fiction. Shortly after PUMAparty.com began clamoring for a more thorough review of Obama’s Constitutional eligibility, the image of a document containing sparse information about Obama’s alleged birth was posted on the internet by undisclosed sources, from an unknown origin. The image appeared on extreme leftwing websites like the Daily Kos, The Huffington Post and later on two websites claiming to be non-partisan reviewers, Factcheck.org and politifact.com. One of the fact checking sites is sponsored by the Annenberg Foundation from which the Chicago Annenberg Project received a large educational grant. Obama served as the chair on the board of directors for the Chicago Annenberg Project in 2002.

    9. CertificaTION Of Identity, not Natural Birth. The 2008 document image was determined to be created by an unknown source from a digital template form of a Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” which is a surrogate, independently published, municipal cover document issued to those applying for copies of birth certificates in the state of Hawaii since 2000. In response to Y2K system updates the State of Hawaii began migrating from paper copies of original birth records to digitally created printed documents. The state of Hawaii openly admits to changing its document format under the guise of preventing identity theft.

    11. Department of Hawaiian Native Homelands. The Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” was found to be so unreliable in clarifying the bearer’s legal and demographic identity that the State of Hawaii’s own Department of Native Homelands refused to accept it as a primary source of identification for its applicants seeking to purchase Hawaiian land reserved for genealogically native Hawaiians.

    12. Hawaii Denies COLB Image. After all was said and done, the State of Hawaii has refused to ever confirm that it issued the 2008 document image. In light of sophisticated, digitally based document imaging technology, the authenticity of the image remains highly questionable, especially without the official endorsement of the Hawaiian Health Department. Some independent reviewers have, unequivocally, determined the image to be a forgery.

    14. Executive Order No. 13489. Obama was ensconced as President on January 20, 2009. Just one day after his inauguration, he signed Executive Order No. 13489 which essentially violates the Freedom of Information Act and prohibits the release of Obama’s personal and presidential records, during and after his presidency, by the National Archives without first being consulted by the National Archives Director and the Attorney General.

    15. LTC Terry Lakin. In April, 2008, after the fraudulent dismissal of more than two dozen civilian court cases which had been filed against Obama attempting to force him to produce original documented evidence of his natal identity, a highly decorated officer with more than 17 years of unblemished service in the U.S. Army brought the Obama eligibility into the active military ranks. Lieutenant Colonel, Dr. Terrence Lakin, an active duty flight surgeon serving the President’s Chief of Staff and working as a commanding ranked physician of a critical care facility, refused to deploy for duty in Afghanistan under his legal right to refuse orders that he, as an officer, believes are illegal. According to Lakin, Barack Obama has not demonstrated provable, documented evidence that he is eligible to hold the office of President and is, therefore, not legally qualified to issue orders to the United States military as Commander In Chief. Lakin’s oath upon becoming an officer is to defend the constitution, not the president. His duty, as an officer to refuse deployment orders he believes are illegal, are legitimate based on clear and concise legal grounds. Despite this fact, however, Lakin pleaded guilty to a circus court under the command of the Obama administration’s military staff, and was sentence to six months in prison and dismissal from the service. He has since been lauded and exalted for his sacrifice and commitment to his duty to defend the Constitution.

    18. Hawaii Violates Federal Guidelines. In the entire 110 year history of the standard, official, federal, U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth” document’s existence, only the state of Hawaii has gone astray from the standard version to such a degree that it actually conceals one’s full natal identity rather than reveals it.

    19. Exploitation of Hawaii’s Lost Culture. Because of its remote, water-locked, geographic characteristics; its tumultuous indigenous history; and a vulnerable culture altered by a transference of sovereignty in the late 1800’s, the Hawaiian islands gained a reputation for maintaining a vague process for documenting immigration, vital events and indigenous population. Historical archives dating between 1890 and 1941 reveal that the Hawaiian Islands served as an unofficial, but widely pursued, sanctuary for thousands of foreign expatriates seeking protection from political persecution in China, Japan, Southeast Asiatic nations, the Middle East and, later, the United States.

    20. Hawaii’s Communist Past. Based on investigations in the 1950’s and 1960’s, a disproportionate concentration of pro-communist activity became a part of Hawaiian culture.

    21. Hawaiian Document Proven Deficient. In August, 2008, a former U.S. Department of Health, Office of Vital Statistics Registrar stated that the Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” cannot be considered an original birth certificate created at the time of occurrence of the birth because “…it does not contain the signature of the licensed medical professional qualified to determine the characteristics of a live birth in accordance with administrative requirements established by the U.S. Department of Health, National Vital Statistics Division, and it does not contain the name and location of the hospital which issued the original record, which would be a U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth” if the child was born in the United States.”

    22. Hawaii’s Permission To Violate Federal Law.The law permits anyone born to parents who claimed Hawaii as their residence within one year of their birth, at any time before or after the enactment of the law, regardless of the actual location of the birth, to receive an original birth record which states that the location of birth is Hawaii, and, therefore, occurred in the U.S. Hawaiian lawmakers have confirmed that the law is not constrained to the date of birth. It is applicable to the date of application for the certificate. This means this law would enable Obama, anytime after the age of 21 to apply for and receive a newly created original Hawaiian birth certificate after providing evidence that his mother or father merely resided in Hawaii for one year prior to his birth.

    24. Obama Loses U.S. Citizenship. Barack Obama claims to have lived in Indonesia with his mother from approximately 1967 to 1971 where he assumed the surname of his step father, Lolo Soetoro and became a citizen of Indonesia. Since Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, he forfeited any claim he may have had to citizenship in the U.S. [ESPECIALLY if that person is trying to claim “Natural Born” citizenship and they run for the Office of the Presidency or Vice-Presidency — emphasis mine].

    27. Dunham Too Young To Confer Citizenship. Ann Dunham turned 19 years old in November, 1961, almost four months after Obama was allegedly born in August, 1961. Citizenship laws in effect in the U.S. in 1961 required the mother of a child born outside the U.S., to a foreign father, to have lived in the U.S. for 14 consecutive years, five of which had to be after the age of 14.

    28. Hospital Mystery. No official records have ever been provided from any authoritative source to prove that Barack Obama was born in Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children.

    29. Obama’s Use of Multiple Social Security Numbers. In 2010, Ohio licensed private investigator Susan Daniels and Colorado private investigator John Sampson revealed that President Obama is using a Social Security number set aside for applicants in Connecticut while there is no record he ever had a mailing address in the state. In addition, the records indicate the number was issued between 1977 and 1979, not 1961 at the time of Obama’s birth.

    30. Obama’s Father Not a U.S. Citizen. Obama’s alleged father was a Kenyan national with citizenship in Great Britain…..The Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” which has been misrepresented as the federally accepted, official document issued by the state of Hawaii for Barack Obama’s birth shows Obama’s father’s race as “African”. Unfortunately, this term violates the U.S. Department of Health’s acceptable classifications of race for official birth certificates. According to NVSD protocols, Obama Sr. is classified as a “Negro” in 1961, not “African”. The term “African” is not even an option in the NVSD manual.

    31. Obama Marriage Mystery. To date, no documented evidence exists proving that a legal marriage between Barack Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham ever occurred in the U.S. The two were allegedly married in Hawaii in early 1961, after Obama Jr. was allegedly conceived sometime in November, 1960. However, no public announcement, or eyewitness of the marriage or marriage license has ever been found.

    41. Hawaii’s Amazing Legitimate Birth Rate. Both papers also published the nearly two dozen announcements assuming that every child was born to married parents living at the same address, despite the fact that the “1961 Vital Statistics Report of the U.S.: Vol. 1 – Natality” shows that there were 1044 illegitimate births in Hawaii in 1961 in which the father was not identifiable.

    44. No Witnesses of Obama’s Birth Still Alive. To date, no living eyewitness of Obama birth exists. It is assumed that his birth was witnessed by at least three people including his doctor and his mother. However, no documentation of the birth has been provided containing the name of the doctor or eyewitnesses.

    45. Obama’s Radicalism. Obama has lived a life wrought with radicalism. In his book, “Dreams From My Father”, Obama writes, “…I chose my friends carefully, the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.”

    46. The Deaths of Lt. Quarles Harris and Donald Young. Quarles Harris was a key witness in a federal probe into charges that Obama’s passport information was stolen from the State Department, when he was fatally shot in front of a Washington D.C. church. Harris had been working as a contractor at the State Department and was cooperating with federal investigators when he was murdered. In December, 2007, Donald Young was a choir leader at Obama’s church, First Trinity Baptist, and school teacher, who many believe had carnal knowledge of Obama’s past. Young was found shot to death in his Southside Chicago apartment.

    47. Larry Sinclair’s Bizarre Story. Of all the sordid stories circulating about Obama’s past, the one told by Larry Sinclair is the darkest. Sinclair posted a YouTube video alleging that he and President Barack Obama engaged in sexual acts and drug use together in 1999, when Obama was an Illinois State Senator. He claims that then-State Senator Obama procured powdered cocaine for Sinclair, and crack cocaine for himself, which Obama allegedly smoked. Sinclair also alleges that their drug use was followed by sex acts that included Sinclair performing fellatio on Obama.

    49. Tim Adams. In July, 2010, Tim Adams, a senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu Elections Office in 2008, made the stunning claim Barack Obama definitely was not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, based on information he was told by the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii that there is no original birth record on file for Barack Obama. In a televised interview, Adams reported that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State. Adams’ statements conflicted directly with repeated affirmations by public officials in Hawaii that they had seen or had inspected Obama’s birth records that would document his representations that he was born in the state.”There is no birth certificate,” said Adams after leaving his position with the Elections Office and now teaches English at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green. “It’s like an open secret. There isn’t one. Everyone in the government there knows this. I managed the absentee-ballot office. It was my job to verify the voters’ identity.

  215. Bovril says:
    January 19, 2011 at 2:28 pm  (Quote)

    Not to forget……..

    51. Presidenting whilst Black
    52. Having a funny furrin name
    53. Being educamated
    54. Having actually used a passport to go to furrin countries with furrin names
    55. Not having dodged military service
    56. Not having Satan’s little helper as VP
    57. Not invading a new furrin country with a furrin name
    58. Still Presidenting whilst Black
    59. Being a Democrat

    And finally, last and most important

    60. Ignoring Birfoons WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

  216. Rickey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 2:43 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: In addition, the records indicate the number was issued between 1977 and 1979, not 1961 at the time of Obama’s birth.

    Those birthers are so ignorant that they don’t realize that Social Security Numbers weren’t issued to infants in 1961.Like most kids of that era, Obama got his SSN when he got his first job, around the time he was 16 – which of course would make it in 1977 or 1978.

  217. G says:
    January 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: Ridiculous crap from the seditious bunch known as the American Grand Jury AKA “We Hate American because they elected a Black Man President”….The printed nonsense that is too long to post but worth reading to see how they still recycle some of the same debunked information pretending that it is somehow true…

    Wow…just pathetic.

    ALL they did is recycle every long since debunked slander, myth and L.I.E. out there and make a list of them.

    Just more proof of why no one should pay attention to the birthers and no facts or evidence make any difference to them. No matter what proves them wrong, they will hold fast to their utter delusions and endlessly resurrect the same zombie nonsense over and over again.

    Their REAL reasons are the list of #51-59 that Bovril just provided above…

  218. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 2:51 pm  (Quote)

    What Abercrombie and me get, that OBOTS don’t get:

    “A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.”

    Soooo, let me translate this for the comprehension-impaired Obots:

    “There are a lot people who really don’t think Obama was born here. Outside of Republicans! This can really screw up Obama’s chances in 2012 to get re-elected!!!”

    Which is what your favorite Girl Reporter has been telling you!!!! Soooo, next time you think that us Birthers have been not effective, oh . . . just keep thinking it, OK???

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  219. G says:
    January 19, 2011 at 3:23 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    Not to speak for Bovril, of course, but here’s the interview in the Star Advertiser with Governor Neil Abercrombie:http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    Thanks for the link!

    And yes, to restate, the full actual context of this original source article covering anything about the birth certificate topic is ONLY this:

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    So, it just goes to show how WND and other cr*p organizations have twisted out of context and blown way out of proportion anything that was actually said and why it is important to stick to the original sources and not someone’s speculative bloviating recap.

    When looked at the actual words he said, we’re back to this being so far an overblown issue with no promises of anything and no newsworthy “progress” to get excited about.

    Yet birthers are predictably in a lathered tizzy.

    I guess even the briefest mention of the topic is all it takes to get them frantically frothing about. After all, meaningless gossip is all they have going for them.

    Even on the original article, you can see that the comments section has been bombared by the the same few birthers swarming over and over again, throwing all the usual zombie bunk out there.

  220. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: What Abercrombie and me get, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, Tee Hee! Tee Hee!Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Damn, gotta rebait those rat traps again. Anybody got a piece of Orly cheese?

  221. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:04 pm  (Quote)

    lmao. Another blow to the birthers; this time from Issa

    Issa has tried to draw a line separating events that he considers appropriate subjects for investigation and those which he deems inappropriate. He has criticized his predecessors for wasting time looking into matters involving the Clintons that predated their arrival at the White House, such as the Whitewater and cattle-futures episodes. “These are items that occurred before the President was elected,” Issa told me. “I would not have viewed them as particularly significant.” He added that issues involving Obama’s past are also off limits, such as “the birther question.” Implicit in this rule is that his past should also be left undisturbed.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/24/110124fa_fact_lizza?printable=true

  222. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:14 pm  (Quote)

    G: Yet birthers are predictably in a lathered tizzy.

    Rabid mongrels. Most of them are cowards but I fear there are a few who will do something stupid but hopefully wind up in a secure prison.

  223. Dave says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm  (Quote)

    Some entertainment from Wonkette: An Open Letter To Birthers: Find a New Way To Question Obama’s Eligibility.

    I’m afraid this birth certificate thing is just becoming banal. It’s just not going to sustain itself for two more years. You need new ideas. And I’m here to help.

  224. obsolete says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm  (Quote)

    Hey Squeeky- Here are some valid birther points you should use in your next blog post of useless vomit:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- links to article that actually says the opposite of what Squeeky claims it says.
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  225. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:42 pm  (Quote)

    Poor Schizophrenic Fut: On one thread, you are MAD at John Boehner for NOT shutting up Birthers, then on this thread you are GLAD that Mr. Issa IS NOT resolving the Birther question, and presumably shutting up us Birthers. But you have a lot of company here. Maybe you Obots can get a Group Discount on thorazine or something???

    Score 1 for Squeeky!!!

    OH Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  226. Joey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 4:58 pm  (Quote)

    Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-‘there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.

    Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

  227. Joey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm  (Quote)

    Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-’there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.

    Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

  228. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-’there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

    It’s not commies under your bed anymore, Joey. It’s Kenyan Muslims. lmao

  229. Joey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm  (Quote)

    “It’s not commies under your bed anymore, Joey. It’s Kenyan Muslims. lmao”

    Same difference! How can a fine, upstanding woman like Hillary Rodham Clinton work for a Kenyan Muslim? And how can REPUBLICANS like Secretary of Defense Bob Gates and Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood work for a Kenyan Muslim, not to mention General Petraeus and Admiral Mike Mullen.
    It defies all logic.

  231. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm  (Quote)

    Record of President Obama’s birth in 1961 is ‘in the archives’: Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie

    Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

    Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that “our investigation” indicates there is a recording of his birth.

    “It actually exists in the archives, written down,” he said.

    The new Democratic head of the state vowed when he took office that he would do his best to end the debate over Obama’s birth, which began in 2008 during the presidential campaign.

    “We’ll do what we can as quickly as we can to make it inevitable that only those who wish the President ill, only the ones with a political agenda, will be the ones doing this kind of thing,” Abercrombie told CNN in December. “The President is entitled to the respect of his office and he’s entitled to have his mother and father respected.”

    During that interview, Abercrombie said his goal to combat birthers was a personal one.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawaii_gov.html#ixzz1BWmtFjt0

    Birther scum.

  232. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 6:51 pm  (Quote)

    lol. good one, will. I guess that puts that fire out pretty quickly

  233. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm  (Quote)

    Another idiotic birther blog.

    The inane ramblings of Retired Army Captain Pamela Barnett.

    About:
    http://unlawfulpresident.com/?page_id=237

    Blog:
    http://unlawfulpresident.com/?cat=11

    Nothing at all from Theresa’s “press conference.”
    You’d think at least Kate or Les would have be there.

  234. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 7:01 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: lol. good one, will. I guess that puts that fire out pretty quickly

    Oh, it has been coughed up, then??? Now, it’s out in PUBLIC???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  235. Dave says:
    January 19, 2011 at 7:42 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky — yes, breaking news, it’s out in public.

    Well, I guess it’s breaking news on a sort of geologic time scale.

  236. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 7:58 pm  (Quote)

    This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…

    From her wubba site;

    Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. Lakin

    Posted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Comments
    alex j rynkiewicz
    Submitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52am

    dear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

  237. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 7:58 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Oh, it has been coughed up, then??? Now, it’s out in PUBLIC???Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Yeah, since 2007…. Duuu-uh

  238. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:06 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…From her wubba site;Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. LakinPosted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Comments
    alex j rynkiewicz
    Submitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52amdear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

    lol. These idiots have no reservations about brandishing their lunacy to the general public, do they? It’s amazing how quickly they forget about the Constitutional rights of the 69.5 million Americans who voted for President Obama in 2008.

  239. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:16 pm  (Quote)

    OMG, if he was born in Kenya, or not a NBC, then nobody had the “constitutional” right to vote for him in the first place. So those questions are NOT misplaced about WHERE he was born. But still, KISS, is the better way to look at it.

    Plus, I have seen the “Trust Me COLB” before to everybody else. I wanted to know if Neal Abercrombie had coughed up anything or whether there is just some more of that ” I just swear somebody seen it in the files” stuff.

    OH, Obots are sure trusting about stuff, I guess like WMDS in Iraq, too.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  240. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:28 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    lol. These idiots have no reservations about brandishing their lunacy to the general public, do they? It’s amazing how quickly they forget about the Constitutional rights of the 69.5 million Americans who voted for President Obama in 2008.

    That’s the inherent evil and anti-American narcissism behind these cowardly birther bigots.

  241. sarina says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:31 pm  (Quote)

    Now the birthers have several videos on YT claiming that Governor of Hawaii Abercrombie, can’t find Obama’s long form BC!

    Hilarious!

  242. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:39 pm  (Quote)

    sarina: Now the birthers have several videos on YT claiming that Governor of Hawaii Abercrombie, can’t find Obama’s long form BC!Hilarious!

    They’re nuts

  243. Joey says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:49 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…From her wubba site;Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. LakinPosted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Commentsalex j rynkiewiczSubmitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52amdear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

    Two problems with the above for Orly: Congress can nominate but the PRESIDENT presents the Medal of Honor. If Lieutenant Colonel Lakin was awarded our nation’s highest military award, President Barack Hussein Obama would be presenting it to him.

    2nd Problem: One of the only two active duty Medal of Honor winners, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts testified AGAINST Lieutenant Colonel Lakin at his court martial. Colonel Roberts presented some of the most damning testimony (he was Lakin’s commanding officer)in which Colonel Roberts said that Lakin said to him “you had your chance” when Roberts ordered Lakin to his office to explain why he had missed a flight to Charlotte, North Carolina.

  244. Dave says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:50 pm  (Quote)

    Ran into a forum post by Logia (formerly a regular at the now defunct gretawire forum) in which she gets all excited that the President’s constitutional eligibility is on Rep. Issa’s short list for investigation.

    Unfortunately for her, this is not true. She has been confused by an article at Human Events which reflects the priorities of Human Events, not Rep. Issa.

    I should acknowledge that the forum Logia posted this on was set up by our own Squeeky as a service to the community.

  245. Majority Will says:
    January 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    Two problems with the above for Orly: Congress can nominate but the PRESIDENT presents the Medal of Honor. If Lieutenant Colonel Lakin was awarded our nation’s highest military award, President Barack Hussein Obama would be presenting it to him.2nd Problem: One of the only two active duty Medal of Honor winners, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts testified AGAINST Lieutenant Colonel Lakin at his court martial. Colonel Roberts presented some of the most damning testimony (he was Lakin’s commanding officer)in which Colonel Roberts said that Lakin said to him “you had your chance” when Roberts ordered Lakin to his office to explain why he had missed a flight to Charlotte, North Carolina.

    When did common sense, decency or the law ever matter to a crap stain birther?

  246. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 9:09 pm  (Quote)

    Dave: Ran into a forum post by Logia (formerly a regular at the now defunct gretawire forum) in which she gets all excited that the President’s constitutional eligibility is on Rep. Issa’s short list for investigation.Unfortunately for her, this is not true. She has been confused by an article at Human Events which reflects the priorities of Human Events, not Rep. Issa.I should acknowledge that the forum Logia posted this on was set up by our own Squeeky as a service to the community.

    I posted an article earlier on this thread where Issa says he’s not going to investigate it. I guess Baghdad Logia didn’t get the memo

  247. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 19, 2011 at 9:15 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    When did common sense, decency or the law ever matter to a crap stain birther?

    Ummmmm, never?

  248. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 9:47 pm  (Quote)

    Now Drudge is reporting that “Wait we found them” after the “Hawaii governor can”t find Obama birth certificate”.

    OH, Tee Hee what a mess!!! Supposedly Abercrombie is doing this all on his own as a personal thing, but I soooo bet the grown-up Obots are behind it.

    What I don’t understand is why was it soooo easy for Frujinko to find them, and put them in a safe place as I remember, then soooo hard for Abercrombie to find???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  249. Greg says:
    January 19, 2011 at 10:13 pm  (Quote)

    Here’s a clue, Squeaky… WND cited to another article. Read that article and quote me the EXACT thing Abercrombie said that suggests he couldn’t find it.

  250. Black Lion says:
    January 19, 2011 at 10:23 pm  (Quote)

    Greg: Here’s a clue, Squeaky… WND cited to another article. Read that article and quote me the EXACT thing Abercrombie said that suggests he couldn’t find it.

    Greg, you are asking Squeeky to manage a coherent thought, which is impossible for her…She needs to believe the fake narrative that the HI COLB does not exist…..Reading the entire article, not a chance….She might learn something, which would be helpful for her…

  251. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 19, 2011 at 10:34 pm  (Quote)

    Greg:

    “(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”

    Which to me also implies that they don’t actually HAVE the thing, only that “it” exists and is a recording of the birth.

    I think if they actually had it, he would said something like, “Oh yeah, we have a copy of it, and I am trying to release it.” I agree that he didn’t definitely say he couldn’t find it, and I would not have headlined the article like either Drudge or WNDm because it is a loose thing to say at this point.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  252. G says:
    January 19, 2011 at 10:39 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: I agree that he didn’t definitely say he couldn’t find it, and I would not have headlined the article like either Drudge or WNDm because it is a loose thing to say at this point.

    On this we agree.

  253. Black Lion says:
    January 19, 2011 at 10:41 pm  (Quote)

    I received an email from some conservative site that hates Obama….Guess who shows up…

    http://conservativeactionalerts.com/blog_post/show/1867

    Dear Friends,

    The House has scheduled a vote to REPEAL OBAMACARE today, January 19th!

    This is a critical moment. Liberals are counting on us to shut up—but I am counting on you to get louder.

    Please read this important message and find out how we can repeal OBAMACARE !

    Very sincerely,

    Gary G. Kreep
    Chairman, Republican Majority Campaign

    Dear Friends,

    We’ve just discovered ANOTHER terrible feature of ObamaCare—a hidden, 3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income!

    The House is voting to repeal ObamaCare on Wednesday, January 19th, and we need your urgent support to make sure we get rid of this monstrosity once and for all!

    Please read this important message and find out how you can fight for repeal.

  254. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 11:03 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Which to me also implies that they don’t actually HAVE the thing, only that “it” exists and is a recording of the birth.

    Well frikken du-uh. How do you think they know it’s there if they don’t actually have it? And what exactly do you think it’s recorded on, 8-track tape?

    Every time I think I’ve plumbed the depths of stupidity, Someone like Squeeky comes along with an agenda and a shovel.

  255. Black Lion says:
    January 19, 2011 at 11:07 pm  (Quote)

    Corsi Puts Words In Hawaii Gov’s Mouth
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Jerome Corsi’s increasingly fact-free obsession with Barack Obama’s birth certificate continued on its plodding path with a Jan. 18 WorldNetDaily article in which he claimed that Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie “uggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

    Except Abercrombie did no such thing. As Media Matters noted, Abercrombie actually said that he was told there is a recording of Obama’s birth in the state archives.

    Corsi went on to attack Snopes.org and FactCheck.org — which have respectively debunked claims that the birth certificate released by Obama’s campaign in 2008 is fake — as “two purportedly independent websites that have displayed a strong partisan bias for Obama.” Corsi offers no evidence to support his assertion of “partisan bias.”

    Of course, WND is a unambiguously non-independent website that has displayed a strong partisan bias against Obama, so by Corsi’s own definition, it — and he — can’t be trusted either.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2106318/corsi-puts-words-in-hawaii-govs-mouth/

  256. Black Lion says:
    January 19, 2011 at 11:09 pm  (Quote)

    Corsi’s Pathological Quest To Prove Obama Is Kenyan Continues
    January 19, 2011 9:10 am ET by Julie Millican

    WorldNetDaily writer Jerome Corsi really needs to get a new hobby. As you may know, Corsi has an unhealthy obsession with proving that President Obama is not really a U.S. citizen, but rather born in Kenya. (Remember in 2008 when he got detained in Kenya while sniffing around to find proof that Obama was ineligible to run for president and then tried to suggest that Obama himself had him detained? Or when he claimed that Obama has “stolen the identity of a natural-born citizen” and is “using someone else’s Social Security number”? Good times.) Well now, Corsi is claiming that Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie’s categorical statement that the state has records of Obama’s birth translates to “Hawaii governor can’t find Obama birth certificate,” which was all he needed for some Drudge love.

    This past December, Abercrombie announced on CNN that he had his “attorney general and the director of the Department of Health looking at what we can do” in order to create an “open process that will put those who want to disrespect the president and his parents in the proper light, which is to say they have a political agenda not worthy of any good American.” Abercrombie actually knew Obama’s parents, and through his relationship with them, knows that Obama was born in Hawaii. People like Corsi who repeatedly smear the president as some kind of foreign-born imposter really seem to have gotten under his skin.

    Yesterday, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser printed excerpts of an interview Abercrombie gave to the paper’s editorial board. During the interview, the Star-Advertiser asked him about his efforts to release Obama’s birth certificate:

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    Abercrombie says he is told that the state has proof of Obama’s birth, but in Corsi’s world, that means Abercrombie “can’t find Obama[‘s] birth certificate.” You see, Abercrombie’s statement was actually a “suggest[ion] … that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

    Corsi really needs to get some help. His birther obsession is becoming pathological.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101190007

  257. Daniel says:
    January 19, 2011 at 11:19 pm  (Quote)

    I have to wonder if the Kreeper is stupid or just blissfully unaware that the bill, which didn’t actually happen today anyways, has zero chance of succeeding?

    a. The repubs don’t have the senate numbers to pass it.

    b. Even if it did miraculously pass. All the Dems come down with the flu on the same day, perhaps. Obama will veto it, and neither house has the numbers to override his veto.

    The Republican house members who were asked admit the chances are practically nil, but they’ll introduce the bill anyways. The Repubs are playing to the ignorant masses again, as usual, grandstanding to win the simpering approval of the Tea Party and Birther nuts. I wonder how much time and money this publicity stunt is going to cost us?

    I’m embarrassed to be a Republican these days.

  258. Dave says:
    January 20, 2011 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    I totally do not understand what the GOP thinks they are accomplishing with this “repeal” bill. Seems like what will come of it is a very public demonstration of their impotence. That’s not going to play well with the “GOP just won big” and “the American people gave us a mandate” talking points.

  259. James M says:
    January 20, 2011 at 2:58 am  (Quote)

    Dave: I totally do not understand what the GOP thinks they are accomplishing with this “repeal” bill. Seems like what will come of it is a very public demonstration of their impotence. That’s not going to play well with the “GOP just won big” and “the American people gave us a mandate” talking points.

    There’s the “power of the purse” angle, but that only makes sense if you believe the lie that the health care reform is a socialist, tax-financed affair instead of the 100% market-driven program that it actually is. So if Congress thinks they can withhold money from something and thereby change the law, they are sadly mistaken.

  260. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:13 am  (Quote)

    Record of President Obama’s birth in 1961 is ‘in the archives’: Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie

    Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

    Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that “our investigation” indicates there is a recording of his birth.

    “It actually exists in the archives, written down,” he said.

    The new Democratic head of the state vowed when he took office that he would do his best to end the debate over Obama’s birth, which began in 2008 during the presidential campaign.

    “We’ll do what we can as quickly as we can to make it inevitable that only those who wish the President ill, only the ones with a political agenda, will be the ones doing this kind of thing,” Abercrombie told CNN in December. “The President is entitled to the respect of his office and he’s entitled to have his mother and father respected.”

    During that interview, Abercrombie said his goal to combat birthers was a personal one.

    “It’s a matter of principle with me,” the 72-year-old said. “I knew his mom and dad. I was here when he was born. Anybody who wants to ask a question honestly could have had their answer already.”

    On Tuesday, he again promised he would do “what I can do” to publicly verify that records show Obama was born in Hawaii and is a citizen of the United States, making him eligible to be President.

    Birthers insist that the President, born in 1961, is not eligible to be commander in chief. The reasons often vary, and have changed and expanded in the two years since the Internet rumor began.

    Some believe his Certification of Live Birth is fake and he was really born in Kenya. Others argue that Obama is a citizen of the United Kingdom or Indonesia. Most theories have been dismissed by many in public office and the media, and have been found to be misleading or generally untrue.

    However, the conspiracy theories still thrive, and according to Abercrombie, likely will continue despite whatever evidence that shows him to be a proper U.S. citizen.

    “You’re not going to convince those people because they have a political agenda, or they have minds that go in that kind of direction,” he told CNN. “Conspiratorial theorists are never going to be satisfied. This has gone into another area of political attack.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawaii_gov.html

  261. Rickey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:22 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion: Corsi’s Pathological Quest To Prove Obama Is Kenyan Continues

    We can’t be entirely sure what Abercrombie actually said, since some of if is paraphrased by the reporter (“Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.”). But my take is that Abercrombie is looking for something which he can release that isn’t protected by Hawaii’s privacy laws – possibly a contemporaneous log where births were recorded when the original birth certificates were filed.

    There is no need for Abercrombie to search for the original birth certificate, because he can’t release that without Obama’s authorization. It’s clear to me that he is looking for something that he can release which doesn’t require Obama’s authorization.

  262. obsolete says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:53 am  (Quote)

    Notice how birthers take two stories/articles Abercrombie says Hawaii has birth record/ Issa says Congress won’t investigate Obama’s past) and twist them and claim they actually say the exact OPPOSITE of what they say! Other birthers link to them (even Drudge) and spread the lie with inaccurate headlines, and no birther bothers to read the actual details. The lie travels around the world before the truth gets its pants on.

    This is the same technique birthers use to read court cases and claim they mean the exact opposite of what they say. (Wong, Etc)

  263. Joey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 11:49 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: We can’t be entirely sure what Abercrombie actually said, since some of if is paraphrased by the reporter (“Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.”). But my take is that Abercrombie is looking for something which he can release that isn’t protected by Hawaii’s privacy laws – possibly a contemporaneous log where births were recorded when the original birth certificates were filed. There is no need for Abercrombie to search for the original birth certificate, because he can’t release that without Obama’s authorization. It’s clear to me that he is looking for something that he can release which doesn’t require Obama’s authorization.

    A Hawaii vital record can be released without the permission of the person named on the record to “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order from a court of competent jurisdiction.”–Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18(b)(9)

  264. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 20, 2011 at 12:43 pm  (Quote)

    You know I’m starting to think this Cheese guy is Strunk. Same lack of facts, claims he worked for several of the attorneys who filed cases then when questioned he devolved into his racist rants.

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/18/hawaii-governor-actually-we-cant-find-obamas-original-birth-certificate/#comment-31791

  265. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 2:22 pm  (Quote)

    Popcorn! More popcorn! OH MY! Today’s headlines in England!!!

    “Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    But it must because Frujinko said she saw the ORIGINAL birth certificate, right???

    If it isn’t there in the end, remember how I told you Obots how easy it would be for Frujinko to lie about seeing it, and then later if it wasn’t there, act surprised and say, “But I SWEAR it was there when I looked! What cudda happened to it???”

    This is why you need the document in PUBLIC. You just don’t need to rely on people’s word when there is supposedly a document. I hope I have at least taught you that!!!

    Oh, this is getting sooooo interesting! Popcorn! Popcorn! Won’t you Obots just POOP if Abercrombie can’t find it??? Anyway, I still think WHY is more relevant. Which is KISS. The possible reasons why Obama hasn’t coughed it up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  266. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, plus this confusion is why I haven’t done a Internet Article on this yet. All this may be part of a plot by Obama where if Abercrombie doesn’t find anything, then Obama can cough up whatever he has without losing face. Because he will be doing to help out a old family friend, not because some sleazy political plan backfired and 58% of Americans ended up with some degree of doubt.

    I guess i could do a Internet Article on that angle ???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  267. obsolete says:
    January 20, 2011 at 3:00 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky the political violence advocate has started the “Frujinko” crap again…

    A complete lack of respect and not-so-subtle racism towards Dr. Fukino. Everyone can easily see why answering to Squeeky’s garbage is a waste of time.

    Don’t feed the racist political assassin fan troll.

  268. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm  (Quote)

    Someone along the lines as mentally deficent as Squeeky, is the poster over at this site called “follow the clues”….His so called argument, even the subtle change of Dr. Fukino’s name shows the inherent racism and how no birther or Obama hater will ever be satisfied….

    For instanse this is one of his more recent posts regarding the official HI statement by Dr. Fukino that I had posted to refute his nonsense….

    “as though this is the best you can come up with. IF THIS is all you have you are not helping you cause, as this is exactly what I am asserting the state is relying on.. A COMPUTER GENERATED PRINTOUT created from records that were entered decades after obama was already a adult.

    the certificate obama posted is not a historical document. IT MAY be drawn from historical records, but its not itself the historical document, which you are well, WELL aware.

    When Fukino carefully avoids mention of seeing the historical paper birth document created at the time of Obamas birth and instead universally, along with Lingel, Abercrombie, and Okubo, and all use the term ”in the records” in a general sense in its place, you can bet they are using the same non-specific term for a reason.. just as in her testimony, Fukino tries to assert that the modern, COMPUTER GENERATED form is identical to a persons historical birth certificate.

    They are under attorney advice using very carefully selected wording that sounds like they are saying one thing, while in fact they are not truly doing so in a legal sense.

    The statement you post of Fukina giving a legislative statement is doing EXACTLY what I asserted above- she is playing with terms to assert that a computer printout drawn from a database that did not even exist until the mid 1980′s, is the same as a historical document handwritten in 1961 – at least two decades earlier.

    you not only do not make a valid argument, your post confirms they are referring to MODERN DOCUMENTS as being ‘HISTORICAL RECORDS’ knowing full well that the technology to create the modern records was still over 20 years from being invented at the time Obama was born.”

    And……

    follow the clues says:
    January 20, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    ”Bob” says-
    A Computer Generated Printout which is certified by the State of Hawaii and has the seal of Hawaii on it. This is a legal birth certificate in the State of Hawaii and many of the states have switched to computer generated printouts. No the printout was created after, the printout derives its information from the original vault certificate
    ——————————————————–

    first of all.. I dont know who ”you guys” refers to.. but I am not a Republican, and voted for the Constitution party. I have no trust in dems or repubs at all.

    That said, my concern here is less with Obama, than it is a governmental entity that is being deliberately deceptive about exactly WHAT record it does assert to possess.

    The state of HI is pretending in very vague manipulated language,
    that it possesses AND has attested/asserted that it has the doctor issued original birth certificate create at Obamas birth, physically present in 1961.
    When pressed, its agents try to interchange the MODERN computer generated information, with the true, original paper form from 48 years ago, and will not give a clear straight answer about the later,
    continually using the same term for both unrelated items, although they are clearly not being asked about the modern database information, they are being specifically asked about the ORIGINAL PAPER CREATED IN 1961.

    Yet, at no time, if you read the vague press releases from Fukina or the media contact from Okubo, does either one specifically assert they possess or have ever seen the actual historical document. The former and current governor also both assert the have NOT seen the original document, in spite of giving press announcements that ALLUDE to something of that nature, in very deliberately unclear language.

    These are govt officials payed for by the taxpayer. If you assert you can answer NO questions for privacy reasons- that is one thing.
    If you instead wage a disinformation campaignin order to get the media off your back with
    inquiries, to make is sound like your official specifically swears that they saw and possess the original document, while deliberately manipulating the language they use to NOT
    specifically swear to possessing the original historical 1961 paper document, or anything close to it..

    THAT is what I have a huge problem with.

    I can copy the text of the declaration of independence onto walmart notebook paper, or write ”GEORGE WASHINGTON” on a piece of stationary from walgreens, but these are not historical documents, and their veracity/accuracy can only be confirmed because we know from other reliable sources the name of George Washington and the text of the original declaration of independence.

    In the case of ANY birth certificate, we have only the original document and those witnesses who were present at that time who could attest to the time and place, and other facts (father of child listed) that are recorded on the HISTORICAL document.
    All the witnesses who could testify to support / confirm Obamas birth place etc.. are dead or NON-EXISTENT.
    Even with a grandmother who literally ran a major bank as its president, no one alive has come forth who recalls the birth or who stopped by the hospital (or which hospital) for the grandchild of a very prominent citizen of a TINY ISLAND.

    Obama has locked down every detail of his life, from his historical school records, to basic historical birth records, AND in his biographical claims, he details facts about his early life that are impossible based on other facts.
    1/He says he was separated from his father who left the family when he was 2,
    when from avail. records,
    Obama factually was separated from his father geographically by thousands of ocean miles, as a 3 week old INFANT, and no record shows him ever living as a family with his claimed father.
    2/The much vaunted birth announcement in Hawaii newspapers give Obamas family birth residence as his GRANDPARENTS home, not the residence used by the reported father at that time

    Was Obama told a sanitized version of events that made his father a better-sounding guy as a child, in order to protect him, and he as a adult simply repeated some inaccurate versions of his history that his family told him to try to make him feel better??- that is quite possible.

    But, to someone who wants to be the leader of the entire free world, and the USA, if there are facts about your past, its the right of the pubic to know and SEE the truth, without a bunch of drama. I do not need to release school transcripts or my BC, since I am not applying to lead the free world.
    In Obamas case, there are huge discrepancies that you can drive a truck through, and he actively has sought to conceal as much personal information as possible. THAT was his decision, and it leads to a very legit question as to why?

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/18/hawaii-governor-actually-we-cant-find-obamas-original-birth-certificate/#comment-31994

  269. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm  (Quote)

    What I find more hilarious is that somehow the President cares what a couple of rags in other countries, who cannot vote for him as President, repeats the debunked sensationalist nonsense….So Squeekers pastes a link from a borderline UK rag and thinks that somehow is relevant or germane to the issue. Especially when the Governor states that the “records that prove that President Obama was born in HI” are on file. So how exactly is that somehow a liability for the President? Again Squeekers forgets that one important fact, that Barack Obama IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. He doesn’t have to release anything. Especially when papers need to make up titles of articles to pretend that the say something that they really don’t say.

    The reason Squeekers focuses on this pretend “court of public opinion” is that in a real court of law, she has no case. The law is on the President’s side. His approval rating is over 50%, even republicans approve of how he is handling the AZ crisis. The birthers are a perfect storm. A bunch of racist incompetent fools that every time they get any media attention they look so inept that they make the President even more sympathetic….There is an old saying…”Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”….

    All the birthers do is make mistakes…When your movement is led by someone like Oily Titz, there are maybe 100,000 of you, your movement is associated with an seditious Army doctor that deserted his unit, and no legitimate politican wants anything to do with you, basically you are not worth the President’s time.

    Abeecrombie made a mistake,. Instead of ignoring you guys, he thought that release proof would satisfy you. When anyone who has dealt with the idiotic birthers knows that no matter what is released, they will claim it is a forgery, how can you trust it when Abercrombie is a buddy of Obama’s, or since his dad was not an American he is ineligible anyway. So it is a no win situation.

    The bottom line is this is all the proof the President will need to convince any rational person of his birth in HI…..

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

    http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf

  270. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:04 pm  (Quote)

    To prove my point regarding Abercrombie….Look at the idiot “I took the red pill” over at Dr Kate’s house of hate….

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 8:06 am
    Abercrombie is the man who publicly read the bogus “Obama” letter to Kapi’olani Medical Center…

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103633

    And Abercrombie is the man who sponsored U.S. House Resolution 593 that tricked his peers into becoming the first government officials to say:

    “Obama was born in Hawaii”

    Which Government Organization Was The First To Say, “Obama was born in Hawaii”?

    The vote in favor of H.Res. 593 preceeded Dr. Fukino’s second News Release. Not the other way around.

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 9:02 am
    Could H. RES. 593 be used as “prima facie” evidence by the State of Hawaii to issue Dr. Fukino’s second News Release and finally make the claim “Obama was born in Hawaii”?

    I think the answer is yes, based on

    Federal Rules of Evidence
    Rule 902. Self-authentication

    (10) Presumptions under Acts of Congress. Any signature, document, or other matter declared by Act of Congress to be presumptively or prima facie genuine or authentic.

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 11:46 am
    I think it’s quite possible that…

    “I have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures”

    … only means that they verified that Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate is on record, not that they verified, or even saw, the contents of that original birth certificate. They could have simply looked at a computer screen, seen that a record exists, and that’s it.

    I believe that it is quite possible that the original birth certificate on record is one that Stanley Ann Dunham requested from Kenya as part of the documentation for her divorce from Barack Obama Sr.

    We’ve noted before that there are pages missing from the divorce records… the hand written page numbers go something like 1-7, 10-12. So, what happened to pages 8 and 9? (I may be off on what the exact page numbers are, but that’s a detail…) The point is that a Kenyan birth certificate could be on record in Hawaii, which is why Dr. Fukino could not claim “Obama was born in Hawaii” when she made her October 31, 2008 News Release. Of course, the AP ran a story claiming that Dr. Fukino had confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii, even though she did not say that.

    It was not until the U.S. House of Representatives voted in favor of H.Res. 593, which claimed “Obama was born in Hawaii”, that Dr. Fukino then issued her second News Release which echoed that statement, and echoed the DNC’s document (the one that was notarized and contained Nancy Pelosi’s signature) statement that Obama is a “natural born citizen”.

    This is all a big shell game.

    Fukino did not say “Obama was born in Hawaii” in October 31, 2008, and seemed unwilling to make that claim until the U.S. House made the claim first.

    Miss Tickly has the emails to prove it…

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/sell-out-obamas/

    Or this…

    CNN Edits Governor Lingle’s Words to Conceal her Lie and Create their own Lie
    By itooktheredpill
    The truth is that Governor Lingle has never claimed to have looked at the original, initial vital record for the birth of Barack Hussein Obama.

    The truth is that Governor Lingle has never claimed that the COLB that was produced at and by the Obama campaign headquarters is authentic. She has never “certified”, in a legal sense, anything about Obama’s birth.

    http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/cnn-edits-governor-lingles-words-to-conceal-her-lie-and-create-their-own-lie/

  271. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:12 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion:

    Huh??? Here is what Frujinko said in 2008 on Halloween:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

    “personally seen and verified that [Hawaii has the original birth certificate on record].” Soooo, you Obots take her at her word, and who knows, maybe she did. So what is the big problem finding it now???

    You can just call people names until you are blue in the face, and now you can add that you don’t care what people in other countries think, and whatever. But Abercrombie is going to have produce a Long Form or OH Obama and him and you Obots will just have egg all over their faces. And a whole bunch more Birthers in the world.

    Now that grownups are in the White House, if that is true, then we will see something. Who knows what??? Maybe the empty file folder where is was supposed to be???? You know what that argument will be, I bet something like.

    “There would not have been an empty file folder if something wasn’t originally in it. But the rats ate the original document and left the file folder because it didn’t taste as good, blah blah blah. Just everybody of import believes that rah rah sis boom ahhh!!!”

    Oh, I need to melt some more butter for the popcorn!!! What should we name this movie??? The Obot Scramble; The Obama identity???; Sleepless in Honolulu???; The Paper Chase???

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  272. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:34 pm  (Quote)

    Pests are very hard to get rid of, especially if you feed them

  273. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:40 pm  (Quote)

    Squeeky, we do take Dr Fukino at her word. Why not? Have you somehow proven that Dr. Fukino has told a lie? Committed perjury? No. Let’s play a game. Who under federal privacy laws was the only person legally allowed to view and inspect the official HI birth certificate? Well the answer is Dr. Fukino. So why would we doubt her word. Has there been any legally admissible evidence presented that would contradict what she has stated officially? Has there been any legally admissible proof ever submitted that has shown the President to be born anywhere but Hawaii? No. So basically you have the word of the only official sanctioned by the law stating the President was born in HI. And on the other hand you and the birthers have nothing but attacking the integrity and the race of Dr.Fukino. I guess hanging out with Charlie Manson has paid off for you. As for movie titles, it would be either “A Few Good Men”, which would be Abercrombie, the President, and all of the HI government officials, or the “Birth Certificate of Obama”, like the “Book of Eli”, the struggle of one man against the hoardes of stupidity, which are the birthers….Tee Hee….

  274. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:52 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: Squeeky, we do take Dr Fukino at her word.Why not?Have you somehow proven that Dr. Fukino has told a lie?Committed perjury?No.Let’s play a game.Who under federal privacy laws was the only person legally allowed to view and inspect the official HI birth certificate?Well the answer is Dr. Fukino.So why would we doubt her word.Has there been any legally admissible evidence presented that would contradict what she has stated officially?Has there been any legally admissible proof ever submitted that has shown the President to be born anywhere but Hawaii?No.So basically you have the word of the only official sanctioned by the law stating the President was born in HI.And on the other hand you and the birthers have nothing but attacking the integrity and the race of Dr.Fukino.I guess hanging out with Charlie Manson has paid off for you.As for movie titles, it would be either “A Few Good Men”, which would be Abercrombie, the President, and all of the HI government officials, or the “Birth Certificate of Obama”, like the “Book of Eli”, the struggle of one man against the hoardes of stupidity, which are the birthers….Tee Hee….

    Don’t you get the feeling that you’ve been there before, like about 1000 times or more?

  275. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:53 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: To prove my point regarding Abercrombie….Look at the idiot “I took the red pill” over at Dr Kate’s house of hate….

    Black Lion,

    While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for ‘I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…), I will give him credit for having the only birther blog I know of that doesn’t moderate – while he will ban people for incivility or other bad behavior as he sees it, I have had a very civil discussion with him and another poster over the course of the last few days and he has done nothing more than to respond to my arguments with arguments of his own. Since, as far as I can tell, this makes his site unique in the birtherverse, he should be given appropriate kudos.

    The thread may be found at:

    http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/questions-for-speaker-boehner/

    I would ask (as a personal favor) that if any of you decide to comment over there that you would show Mr. Anderson respect and attack the ideas, not the man. Thanks in advance.

  276. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 4:59 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion:

    Then why doesn’t Abercrombie call up Frujinko and ask her where she saw it last??? Here’s the way it will all shake out.

    Long Forms Talk, BS and Excuses Walk.

    So simple even a Governor of Hawaii gets it!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  277. Scientist says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:04 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion, as for the “court of public opinion”. opinions don’t matter, votes do. So, I issue a challenge: I am looking for a registered voter who can honestly and truthfully say the following: “I agree with most of Obama’s policies and think he is doing a fine job as President. I would happily vote for him in 2012; however, I am deeply concerned about the issues surrounding his birthplace. If he releases the long-form birth certificate and it shows him born in Hawaii, I will vote for him in 2012. Otherwise, I will not”.

    It is my contention that there is not even 1 such person in the entire United States. In the spirit of science, I am submitting this hypothesis to experimental falsification.

  278. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:13 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist,

    In the spirit of adding to your empirical data, I would like to state that I am not such a person nor do I know of any person who would falsify your claim.

  279. Rickey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:21 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    A Hawaii vital record can be released without the permission of the person named on the record to “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order from a court of competent jurisdiction.”–Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18(b)(9)

    Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.

    It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

  280. Daniel says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:30 pm  (Quote)

    I think Abercrombie was a little naive when he first brought the issue up. I think he may heve been led to believe that the birther crap would stop if he just gave them a little more objective evidence.

    I think he’s starting to figure out that nothing will ever satisfy the birthers, because eligibility really isn’t the issue for them.

  281. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:32 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

    If he can find something to release within the confines of the law, I’m sure he will. If he doesn’t find something he can release outside of those restrictions, the birthers will probably say, as they already have said, that he can’t find anything at all, which is absolutely false.

  282. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:33 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:

    I think maybe a Grown-up Obot would just kick you in the seat of the pants and say ” I refute it thus!” (Somebody famous whoever did this once in Greece???)

    I bet the grown-up Obot would also say hurtful things to you like ” What in the heck planet do you live on you @#!!%#!!!&$??? What part of 58% do you not understand???

    That is the difference between grown up obots and grown up Birthers on one side, and you little kid obots on the other. That is why smart people like me, Chris Matthews, Neal Ambercrombie, and the Law Professor understand it while you are still playing with your Junior Scientist Magnifying Glass Set and catching leaves on fire.

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  283. obsolete says:
    January 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm  (Quote)

    Squueky continues with her racist “Frujinko” crap, and people respond to her as if she is a rational player…

    Squeeky, cut the racist “Frujinko” crap.

  284. Joey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:07 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

    Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records. Its a little early in the history of the 112th Congress to see if that will happen.
    Interestingly, Hawaii is one of the few states where the Attorney General of the state has independent subpoena power, meaning the Attorney General does not need to go to a judge to get a subpoena. Perhaps the new Attorney General will release the birth certificate on his own authority.
    Another different thing about Hawaii government is that the state Attorney General is an appointed position, not an elected position, so the Attorney General works for Abercrombie.

  285. Scientist says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:14 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: In the spirit of adding to your empirical data, I would like to state that I am not such a person nor do I know of any person who would falsify your claim.

    Bart, You would be more likely to run into Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa than into someone whho would falsify my claim.

  286. Scientist says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:16 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records

    On what grounds?

  287. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:19 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Squueky continues with her racist “Frujinko” crap, and people respond to her as if she is a rational player…Squeeky, cut the racist “Frujinko” crap.

    Yes, and if it’s allowed to continue, we’ll be hearing the same dumb crap for at least the next two years and more than likely the next 6 years because it never changes.

    Just so you know, when she gets done here refusing to accept facts that contradict her delusions, she goes to other websites and says what a bunch of idiots people here are. She does that not because you haven’t provided her with enough factual evidence to contradict her dumb claims, she does that because she knows that anyone who even bothers to respond to her garbage thinking that facts will prove her wrong is an idiot. And it is on that basis that she goes to other websites and says that everyone here is stupid, and I think after all this time, with her repeating the same nonsense day in and day out and her making up the stupidest of excuses why she refuses to accept the facts, that’s one thing I have to agree with her about. She comes here to taunt so that she can go to other websites and blow her own horn just because we simply respond to her BS.

  288. Joey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:25 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: On what grounds?

    Coffee 😉
    Congress can investigate any issue it deems to investigate and just like with Grand Juries, they can go on legal “fishing expeditions” any time they want.
    It is interesting that the primary House Committee that undertakes investigations is “Oversight and Government Reform.” The new committee chair is Darryl Issa of California and he has already said that he won’t be investigating “birther” issues, only what Obama has done SINCE Inauguration Day.

  289. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:26 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records

    I really think this an unlikely scenario. While John Behner has not publicly admonished his party members, surely he has privately. If they ever got their subpoena, it would be “de tar baby.” The birth certificate would show what fools they all are. It’s a lose-lose scenario

  290. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:28 pm  (Quote)

    The bottom line is that the second you respond to that troll, you’ve lost the argument regardless of what factual evidence you present because it doesn’t care about facts, and once you respond to it, you have given it what it comes here to get and use against you in other internet venues – attention

  291. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:29 pm  (Quote)

    Hmmmm. You Obots don’t complain when I call him Vattle. Plus, FUT, you are just mad because I busted you out saying one thing on one thread, and another thing on another thread!!!

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  292. obsolete says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:31 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, and if it’s allowed to continue, we’ll be hearing the same dumb crap for at least the next two years and more than likely the next 6 years because it never changes.

    Just so you know, when she gets done here refusing to accept facts that contradict her delusions, she goes to other websites and says what a bunch of idiots people here are. She does that not because you haven’t provided her with enough factual evidence to contradict her dumb claims, she does that because she knows that anyone who even bothers to respond to her garbage thinking that facts will prove her wrong is an idiot. And it is on that basis that she goes to other websites and says that everyone here is stupid, and I think after all this time, with her repeating the same nonsense day in and day out and her making up the stupidest of excuses why she refuses to accept the facts, that’s one thing I have to agree with her about. She comes here to taunt so that she can go to other websites and blow her own horn just because we simply respond to her BS.

    I couldn’t have put it better myself….
    Seriously, would anyone try to have a rational discussion with anyone who referred to President Obama as “Oogabama”? I would hope not. So why does anyone put up with her “Frujinko” crap?

  293. obsolete says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:33 pm  (Quote)

    Would anyone try rational debate with someone who used the name “James Earl Ray” here?

  294. Scientist says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:33 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: It’s a lose-lose scenario

    Once again, unless someone can meet my challenge and show me a pro-Obama birther, there are no votes there. Those who doubt the birth will not vote for Obama no matter what and those that would vote for Obama if his record justiifies it don’t doubt the birth.

  295. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:34 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm: Huh??? Here is what Frujinko said in 2008 on Halloween

    It is “Fukino.” You have been informed. Do it again, and I will assume it was intentional, and you will be banned.

  296. Joey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:35 pm  (Quote)

    A gentle reminder:
    The feeding of trolls is strongly discouraged as it only tends to stimulate their desperate need for any kind of attention from anybody.

    Lonely and pathetic people will seek even negative attention over being ignored.

  297. Joey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:40 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: I really think this an unlikely scenario. While John Behner has not publicly admonished his party members, surely he has privately. If they ever got their subpoena, it would be “de tar baby.” The birth certificate would show what fools they all are. It’s a lose-lose scenario

    Methinks that you are misunderestimating 😉 the degree of irrationality. Boehner could well figure that the best way to wash his hands completely of a losing issue for his party is to end it once and for all, with him staying way distant from it.

  298. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:44 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: A gentle reminder:
    The feeding of trolls is strongly discouraged as it only tends to stimulate their desperate need for any kind of attention from anybody.Lonely and pathetic people will seek even negative attention over being ignored.

    We hit it with a pretty good dose of ignoricide for a while there, I’m sure we can manage some more…

    Scientist,

    I think you have hit on exactly why the birther issue is a wedge issue for democrats – it’s no surprise that the Republican leadership will have nothing to do with it (I wonder if Alan West will go rogue at some point…). I’m not sure how big a benefit it would be to Democrats (in terms of people who would change their vote) but it would definitely be a political gift.

  299. Scientist says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:52 pm  (Quote)

    Bart-I don’t think Alan West chairs a committee, so I don’t think he can do much. I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.

    I am still waiting for a pro-Obama birther to surface. They seem harder to find than WMDs in Iraq.

  300. SqueekyFromm says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:56 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It is “Fukino.” You have been informed. Do it again, and I will assume it was intentional, and you will be banned.

    You do not have to ban me, I will go. You obviously tolerate INTENTIONAL whatever when it is from Obots. Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.” One could find many others. It is just that you have double standards. But it is your website and you can have as many different standards as you like. The real issue is that you Obots can dish it out, but you just can’t take it!!!

    But, thank you for the things you have taught me.

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  301. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 6:59 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Bart-I don’t think Alan West chairs a committee, so I don’t think he can do much.I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.I am still waiting for a pro-Obama birther to surface.They seem harder to find than WMDs in Iraq.

    Since Rep. West is a freshman, I’m certain he doesn’t – I don’t think that he would accomplish something (beyond playing with the tar baby), but if he is truly a birther that might not make a difference.

    And don’t hold your breath while you’re waiting… 😉

  302. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 20, 2011 at 7:26 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm:
    You do not have to ban me, I will go. You obviously tolerate INTENTIONAL whatever when it is from Obots. Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.”One could find many others. It is just that you have double standards. But it is your website and you can have as many different standards as you like.The real issue is that you Obots can dish it out, but you just can’t take it!!!But, thank you for the things you have taught me.So There!!!Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    She was a state official she demands respect. It sounds mildly racist when you continue to do it. Why is it you show a general hatred towards Dr. Fukino. We took it from you over and over as you showed how schitzophrenic you were. Go make some friends Squeeky its obvious you don’t have any

  303. Rickey says:
    January 20, 2011 at 8:52 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.

    I don’t know either, but subpoena power isn’t absolute. I would expect to see Hawaii DOH attempt to quash a subpoena if one were served, although they might respond to one by producing another COLB.

  304. Bovril says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:23 pm  (Quote)

    And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

  305. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: Black Lion,While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…), I will give him credit for having the only birther blog I know of that doesn’t moderate – while he will ban people for incivility or other bad behavior as he sees it, I have had a very civil discussion with him and another poster over the course of the last few days and he has done nothing more than to respond to my arguments with arguments of his own. Since, as far as I can tell, this makes his site unique in the birtherverse, he should be given appropriate kudos.The thread may be found at:http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/questions-for-speaker-boehner/I would ask (as a personal favor) that if any of you decide to comment over there that you would show Mr. Anderson respect and attack the ideas, not the man. Thanks in advance.

    Slart, I would never attack him. I respect the argument and have read his blog before. I did not post however. I called him an idiot becuase of his theory, which I thought was asinine….But I do respect someone who is willing to debate the issue, and not ignore them and mindlessly believe in nonsense….

  306. Majority Will says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm  (Quote)

    “double standards”

    Says the serial poster who’s hero and namesake attempted to assassinate Gerald Ford.

    “Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg”

    Childish? Sure. I admit it.

    Racist? Nope. Not unless two body parts (with one also a verb for corruption) and a fictional alien is racist.

  307. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:35 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

    She’s through here. Here little game has been outed.

  308. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:36 pm  (Quote)

    HER little game has been outed

  309. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:46 pm  (Quote)

    SO THERE!!!!!!!

  310. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion,

    The last comment was not directed at you specifically. I agree with you both in regards to Mr. Anderson’s ideas and his willingness to debate – I’m interested to see how he will respond to my continued arguments – after following what you and others have written here for the past two years I feel pretty capable of refuting any birther theory…

    Will,

    Well said.

    FUT,

    Tee Hee!

  311. Majority Will says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: SO THERE!!!!!!!

    Tee Frickin’ Hee.

  312. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

    She’ll be back…She wants the attention….She intentionally attempts to engage someone because of her need for that attention….

  313. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:54 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: Black Lion,The last comment was not directed at you specifically. I agree with you both in regards to Mr. Anderson’s ideas and his willingness to debate – I’m interested to see how he will respond to my continued arguments – after following what you and others have written here for the past two years I feel pretty capable of refuting any birther theory… Will,Well said.FUT,Tee Hee!

    Slart, I know. I just didn’t want you to think that I would just attack him because of his opinions…I am also curious to see what he will say to refute your coherent arguments….

  314. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:55 pm  (Quote)

    Here’s something Dr. K(h)ate apparently feels comfortable posting on her website:

    drkate
    January 20, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    lame Cherry has a post on it, blood camouflage part HU

    How’s this for a description of her heiny

    “Michelle Obama is a psychadelic 1960′s bad acid trip of a Saigon frag incident painted with the viscous unctions of blood, spit, genital ejactulations, urine and blood clot feces upon the wall of the mind dressed to kill.”

    [link to Lame Cherry’s cesspool for batshit insane racists omitted]

    She’s such a sweetie pie…

  315. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm  (Quote)

    And once someone is foolish enough to give her that attention, she says, “Okay, I don’t like your facts, so I win.” Then she goes to other websites telling everyone how smart she is and how stupid everyone here is because she’s so delusional that she doesn’t accept facts she doesn’t like.

    You can’t argue with a sick mind because sick minds don’t accept facts. If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream or that the Holocaust never happened, there’s no set of facts they are ever going to accept that prove them wrong.

  316. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm  (Quote)

    Oops forgot to censor and it got caught in moderation…

    Here’s something Dr. K(h)ate apparently feels comfortable posting on her website:

    drkate
    January 20, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    lame Cherry has a post on it, blood camouflage part HU

    How’s this for a description of her heiny

    “Michelle Obama is a psychadelic 1960′s bad acid trip of a Saigon frag incident painted with the viscous unctions of blood, spit, genital ejactulations, urine and blood clot feces upon the wall of the mind dressed to kill.”

    [link to Lame Cherry’s cesspool for batguano insane racists omitted]

    She’s such a sweetie pie…

  317. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Would anyone try rational debate with someone who used the name “James Earl Ray” here?

    No…You are right….Nor would we engage Charles Manson….It reminds me of the guy on Gretawire who went by the name “Nathan Bedford Forrest”…The former Confederate general who was one of the founders of the Klan….

  318. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 9:59 pm  (Quote)

    I find it somewhat amusing that the reason my comment got held up in moderation was due to my use of a different term for guano rather than LC getting its hate on…

  319. Black Lion says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:00 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And once someone is foolish enough to give her that attention, she says, “Okay, I don’t like your facts, so I win.” Then she goes to other websites telling everyone how smart she is and how stupid everyone here is because she’s so delusional that she doesn’t accept facts she doesn’t like.You can’t argue with a sick mind because sick minds don’t accept facts. If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream or that the Holocaust never happened, there’s no set of facts they are ever going to accept that prove them wrong.

    Fut, agreed….And Slart, Lame Cherry is just a hateful racist…She/he hates the Obamas and has vilified them on numerous occasions…

  320. Keith says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:04 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…),

    I had a sneaking idea that this whole ‘birther’ mess would one day be tied to the dookies somehow, someway.

    Its all a pattern you see, K won’t play a significant out-of-conference game outside the cozy confines of Cameron, and Birthers won’t engage in discussion outside the cozy confines of their own echo chamber.

    Bear Down, Arizona! Its Miller Time!

  321. G says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:06 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: Fut, agreed….And Slart, Lame Cherry is just a hateful racist…She/he hates the Obamas and has vilified them on numerous occasions…

    Lame Cherry is way beyond just being a hateful racist. Lame Cherry’s posts are so depraved and sick that there is no question that LC suffers from extreme mental issues as well as a ton of depraved sexual hangups. This is one of the sickest individuals on the ‘net, in every sense of the word.

  322. Majority Will says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:26 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream . . .

    You’ve never had baked ice cream? 😀

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baked_Alaska

    Yum.

  323. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:32 pm  (Quote)

    Yeah, I’ve had that before, Will; it is delicious. I guess I’ve had a little too much half-baked Alaska (Palin) though lately

  324. Slartibartfast says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:36 pm  (Quote)

    Keith,

    Don’t mess with Duke! (back in the day I was one of the two or three most recognizable Cameron Crazies…) And I haven’t noticed Coach K having any problems winning games away from Cameron in March…

  325. Majority Will says:
    January 20, 2011 at 10:46 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: too much half-baked Alaska (Palin) though lately

    Too much credit. The omelette surprise from Wasilla is still quite raw. You betcha.

  326. obsolete says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:19 am  (Quote)

    My goodness, the group IQ here has gone up 50% since the girl reporter who couldn’t get a public official’s name right left. She was such a drag.
    For those who like to have birther’s to sharpen your wits against, there will be others- some drive-bys and some who may actually debate a while, until they decide facts are stupid things.
    But Squeeky was the worst of everything- a name stealing troll to begin with, who was just playing everyone here in some grand bit of performance art theater.

  327. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 8:38 am  (Quote)

    obsolete:
    But Squeeky was the worst of everything- a name stealing troll to begin with, who was just playing everyone here in some grand bit of performance art theater.

    Yep . . . http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001062327180

  328. Black Lion says:
    January 21, 2011 at 8:39 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Too much credit. The omelette surprise from Wasilla is still quite raw. You betcha.

    Speaking of the quitter from Wasilla, news of good old Todd cheating on Simple Sarah…Keep in mind it is from the National Enquirer, but if I recall last year when the equally trashy Globe printed “news” which alleged that Obama was cheating with another woman, the birthers and Obama haters pointed out that it was probabaly true because the Enquirer ended up being right about John Edwards….I wonder how long it will take them to denounce this article, forgetting how they vilify President Obama daily on “evidence” with less veracity than this….You will definately see some hypocrisy….

    Todd Palin, Sarah Palin’s husband, in sex scandal with massage therapist Shailey Tripp: Enquirer

    “The National Enquirer is reporting that Sarah Palin’s husband, Todd, is embroiled in a sex scandal involving an extramarital affair with a massage therapist who has been “busted for prostitution.”

    The Enquirer claims it has unearthed official documents showing 36-year-old Shailey Tripp was arrested for maintaining a house of prostitution in March and that cops have confiscated physical evidence that could tie Todd to the alleged affair.
    The tabloid did not disclose when the alleged rendezvous took place or what evidence was seized by police.

    The Palins, who have previously been dogged by cheating allegations in 2008 and 2009 and have vehemently denied each and every accusation, though they have not commented on the Enquirer story.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/01/20/2011-01-20_todd_palin_sarah_palins_husband_in_sex_scandal_with_massage_therapist_shailey_tr.html

  329. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 8:52 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Don’t feed the racist political assassin fan troll.

    Speaking of which . . .

    Manson follower Patricia Krenwinkel denied parole
    January 20, 2011
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/manson-follower-patricia-krenwinkel-denied-parole.html

    After Manson and some of his followers were arrested for the Tate/La Bianca murders in 1969, Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme and the remaining “Manson family” camped outside of the trial. When Manson and his fellow defendants, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Atkins carved Xs into their foreheads, so did Squeaky Fromme and her compatriots.

    They proclaimed Manson’s innocence and preached his apocalyptic philosophy to the news media and to anyone else who would listen.

    Squeaky Fromme was never charged with involvement in the murders, but was convicted of attempting to prevent Manson’s imprisoned followers from testifying, as well as contempt of court when she herself refused to testify. She was given short jail sentences for both offenses.

    Upon entering prison, Charles Manson looked to the Aryan Brotherhood for protection against sexual assault and beatings. To earn the favor of the brotherhood, Manson had his female followers mail nude photos of themselves to brotherhood members. With these photos, promises of sexual favors when the men were released were also included.

    (source: wikipedia)

    A birther’s role model.

  330. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 9:02 am  (Quote)

    Black Lion:
    Speaking of the quitter from Wasilla, news of good old Todd cheating on Simple Sarah…Keep in mind it is from the National Enquirer, but if I recall last year when the equally trashy Globe printed “news” which alleged that Obama was cheating with another woman, the birthers and Obama haters pointed out that it was probabaly true because the Enquirer ended up being right about John Edwards….I wonder how long it will take them to denounce this article, forgetting how they vilify President Obama daily on “evidence” with less veracity than this….You will definately see some hypocrisy….Todd Palin, Sarah Palin’s husband, in sex scandal with massage therapist Shailey Tripp: Enquirer“The National Enquirer is reporting that Sarah Palin’s husband, Todd, is embroiled in a sex scandal involving an extramarital affair with a massage therapist who has been “busted for prostitution.”The Enquirer claims it has unearthed official documents showing 36-year-old Shailey Tripp was arrested for maintaining a house of prostitution in March and that cops have confiscated physical evidence that could tie Todd to the alleged affair.
    The tabloid did not disclose when the alleged rendezvous took place or what evidence was seized by police.The Palins, who have previously been dogged by cheating allegations in 2008 and 2009 and have vehemently denied each and every accusation, though they have not commented on the Enquirer story.”http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/01/20/2011-01-20_todd_palin_sarah_palins_husband_in_sex_scandal_with_massage_therapist_shailey_tr.html

    More than likely, the Palinistas and her lapdog, Mansour will spin this to make Simple Sarah the victim of viciousness from the Evil Media again.

    If it’s proven true by more reputable sources, then The Wasilla Winker can use the “See, I said I was a victim but now I’m taking the high road and forgiving him,” defense.

  331. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 9:21 am  (Quote)

    Denounce the “Birthers” NOW!

    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/denounce_birthers/index2.html?rc=hlinko_01062011_birthers_ad1

    From the site:
    Sign the petition

    We’ve reached 63% of our 2nd NEW goal of 10,000 signers! (6,316)

    The petition reads:
    “I am calling on you to clearly and unambiguously denounce the birther movement, and to do it in the halls of Congress itself. It is appalling that this stupidity has gone on as long as it has, especially considering the racist undertones which clearly drive much of the rumors. Enough is enough. Stop coddling and encouraging the birthers — and start denouncing them.”

    Guess where I found this very helpful link?

    It’s there.

  332. Steve says:
    January 21, 2011 at 10:47 am  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Speaking of which . . .Manson follower Patricia Krenwinkel denied paroleJanuary 20, 2011http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/manson-follower-patricia-krenwinkel-denied-parole.htmlAfter Manson and some of his followers were arrested for the Tate/La Bianca murders in 1969, Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme and the remaining “Manson family” camped outside of the trial. When Manson and his fellow defendants, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Atkins carved Xs into their foreheads, so did Squeaky Fromme and her compatriots.They proclaimed Manson’s innocence and preached his apocalyptic philosophy to the news media and to anyone else who would listen. Squeaky Fromme was never charged with involvement in the murders, but was convicted of attempting to prevent Manson’s imprisoned followers from testifying, as well as contempt of court when she herself refused to testify. She was given short jail sentences for both offenses.Upon entering prison, Charles Manson looked to the Aryan Brotherhood for protection against sexual assault and beatings. To earn the favor of the brotherhood, Manson had his female followers mail nude photos of themselves to brotherhood members. With these photos, promises of sexual favors when the men were released were also included.(source: wikipedia)A birther’s role model.

    One of my favorite SNL sketches was “Dangerous but Inept,” where Jane Curtain interviewed Squeeky, played by Laraine Newman.

    http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75cinept.phtml

  333. Black Lion says:
    January 21, 2011 at 10:49 am  (Quote)

    More fiction from the Post and Fail…

    “Dear Governor Abercrombie:

    RE: BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S LONG-FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE

    On December 24, 2010, various news outlets, including The New York Times, reported that you were “so incensed over birthers’ — the conspiracy theorists who assert that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya and was thus not eligible to become president — that he is seeking ways to change state policy to allow him to release additional proof that the president was born in Honolulu in 1961.”

    Since that time, after refusing to cover the issue over the last two years, the “conservative” internet and print news outlet Human Events has included the eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama to occupy the Oval Office on the author’s list of “investigation targets” by the new House Republican majority. The questions surrounding Obama’s constitutional eligibility to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief are being discussed on radio stations by mainstream journalists who have stated that the media now “privately admit a constitutional crisis” in regard to the fraud which Obama has apparently wrought upon a largely unsuspecting nation.

    Since its inception in August 2009, this publication as well as others have reported numerous instances of stonewalling on the part of employees at the Hawaii Department of Health (HDOH) for information which by law should have been available to the public. You now provide direct oversight over the Department of Health and have appointed a new interim director. Prior to your election, The Post & Email has reported with extensive documentation that the Hawaii Department of Health has lied about the availability of birth index data or failed to answer UIPA requests at all. No one from the department has refuted our claims that they have been dishonest in dealing with the public regarding releasing information under the UIPA law.

    Even former Obama supporter Chris Mathews, who in 2007 stated on air that Obama was born in Indonesia, has recently called for him to release his original birth certificate. The only information which the HDOH has released is alleged “birth index data” which proves absolutely nothing, as Hawaii has provided Certifications of Live Birth to children born out of the country.

    When Factcheck.org released a “Certification of Live Birth” in August 2008, the organization did not disclose that it lacked the information present on the official long-form document which contains the signature of the doctor who delivered the child, the height and weight of the baby, and considerable personal information about the parents such as occupation and their birthplaces. An official document also would have contained a raised stamp from the Registrar of Vital Statistics. Questions directed to Factcheck.org staff members have repeatedly gone unanswered.

    A researcher who traveled to Hawaii last summer documented the fact that contrary to the claims of the Hawaii Department of Health, long-form birth certificates are still available to anyone born in Hawaii who requests one for a fee of $10.00.

    Shortly after you made your public statement on December 24, it was reported that you subsequently declined interviews and further commentary about your quest for Obama’s original vital records in Hawaii, and yesterday it was stated that you have been unable to locate them. However, as governor, you must be familiar with HRS 338, which states that only a person with a “direct and tangible interest” in the record may obtain a copy.

    You may know that there is video proof that Michelle Obama has referred to Kenya as her husband’s “home country.” Members of the Kenyan Parliament have stated on the record that Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Kenya, as did the Kenyan ambassador to the United States, Peter Ogego. Another report emanating from Hawaii stated that he was born in Indonesia but was later changed to say that his birthplace was Honolulu. Why are there so many inconsistencies in regard to this man’s birth?

    Obama himself has admitted that he was born a dual citizen due to his father’s British citizenship as a Kenyan, as Kenya had been a British colony at the time of Barack Obama Sr.’s birth. Obama also conspicuously referred to himself as “native born,” not “natural born,” on his campaign website in 2008. Why did Obama not declare himself a “natural born Citizen,” as is required by Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution, and then provide the proof?

    There remains a question as to whether or not Obama holds Indonesian citizenship.

    There is a decorated former Army flight surgeon sitting in prison at Ft. Leavenworth, KS because Obama was unwilling to provide proof of his eligibility to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief. What kind of a man would order members of the U.S. Armed Forces to enter into harm’s way and yet hide all of his personal records while occupying the most public office in the world? What kind of person would allow an 18-year, highly-acclaimed Army veteran to lose his livelihood, rank, and career because he refused to release his long-form birth certificate? And why did the defendant’s chain of command preside conduct his court-martial without allowing discovery to him to settle the matter once and for all?”
    …………

    “If Obama was not born in Hawaii, has parents other than whom he has claimed, or is not a “natural born Citizen” for whatever reason, he has lied to entire country and should be prosecuted, along with the hundreds, if not thousands, of operatives who aided and abetted the fraud. All of the laws Obama has signed and appointments he has made would be rendered null and void. However, would that not be preferable to allowing a usurper to act as de facto president and commander-in-chief because politicians, judges, and Supreme Court justices lack the fortitude to stand up for the U.S. Constitution, which protects all of us from absolute government tyranny?”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/19/open-letter-to-hawaii-gov-neil-abercrombie/

    And in the comments our recent troll that likes the name of an assissin makes and apperance spouting the same nonsense….I decline to repeat it…But the following comment is hilarious…

    12thGenerationAMERICAN says:
    Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 12:28 PM
    Great letter, Sharon! As always, you make us BIRTHERs ( Brave Individual Requesting Traitors Heed Eligibility Requirements) proud! God bless and be safe
    ——————-
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: Thank you, sir.

  334. Black Lion says:
    January 21, 2011 at 10:51 am  (Quote)

    More Obama derangement….

    Fox Rejects Super Bowl Ad From JesusHatesObama.Com

    “Fox has rejected a proposed Super Bowl ad from a conservative comedy site called JesusHatesObama.com.

    The ad shows two bobblehead dolls: one of Jesus and one of President Obama. As classical music plays, the video cuts between the two bobbleheads until Jesus seemingly makes the Obama bobblehead fall into a fish tank, whereupon the logo for the site comes up.

    Fox said the ad was unacceptable and could not air during the Super Bowl.

    A representative for the site said that it was founded by a man named Richard Belfry. On the site, people can order anti-Obama merchandise, such as t-shirts and hats. A block of text on the front page of the site explains, “do we really believe that Jesus hates Obama? Of course not! However, we do believe in freedom…as in the freedom to make fun of the Obama administration with novelty t-shirts…our products may be a joke but so are the policies of this administration.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/fox-rejects-super-bowl-ad-jesus-hates-obama_n_811882.html

  335. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm  (Quote)

    As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet.

    This is easily remedied. If you recall:

    Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    The solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!

    Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

  336. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm  (Quote)

    lester: As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet. This is easily remedied. If you recall:Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.htmlThe solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

    That’s absolutely right and the fact that the Abercrombie administration hasn’t figured that out yet makes them look like complete idiots.

    Rush Limbaugh did a lengthy piece on his show today making fun of Abercrombie. It’s not good to start off your administration looking like a fool to the entire planet.

  337. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:34 pm  (Quote)

    lester: As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet. This is easily remedied. If you recall:Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.htmlThe solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

    Considering that’s the Governor never said he had difficulty finding the long form you might want to go back to the drawing board.

  338. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

  339. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:47 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    Do you often get your news from a tabloid site? The notion that Abercrombie can’t find it is based on illiteracy. Namingly birthers not being able to read the actual interview and what he actually said. Instead of going to a third party tabloid read the original interview.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.”

    He clearly states it exists in their archives.

  340. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright.It’s in the press – literally all over the world.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    So you’re one of the mentally challenged, political enemies who Abercrombie despises for disparaging the President and his family despite rational evidence that proves you’re lying and full of crap?

    Your whole trailer park must be proud.

  341. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:04 pm  (Quote)

    Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? No lies. Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable.

    .

    Fukino said she saw it. Abercrombie says he can’t find it. Those are absolute factual statements. Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?

    .

    Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

  342. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:12 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? No lies. Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable. .Fukino said she saw it. Abercrombie says he can’t find it. Those are absolute factual statements. Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?.Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    Abercrombie never said he couldn’t find it in fact he specifically they had found it and its there. As usual birthers read something and come to the opposite conclusion of what an article actually says.

  343. Dave says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:20 pm  (Quote)

    Honestly, Lester, the latest birther thing is asserting that Abercrombie said he can’t find the President’s birth certificate — an assertion that is never attached to a quote by Abercrombie. Somebody just made this up, and now all the birthers are repeating it as if repetition will make it true.

    Tell you what, show us a quote in which Abercrombie says he cannot find the President’s birth certificate, and we’ll take it from there.

  344. Greg says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:23 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.

    Do you understand what a “quote” is? It’s where you write down exactly what a person says.

    Please, quote me where Abercrombie SAID that he was having difficulty finding the document. Remember, here’s what the paper said:

    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records…

    Not even the paper says he SAID it. They say he SUGGESTED it!

    But, the great and powerful lester can see things that the paper cannot. HE says that Abercrombie SAID IT!

    Okay, lester, here’s the original interview. Let’s see if YOU can do this QUOTE thing the papers cannot.

    Quote the exact sentence where Abercrombie says he is having difficulty finding the document.

    Or, if you admit you’re wrong, quote the exact sentence where Abercrombie SUGGESTS he is having difficulty finding the document.

    Why do you guys hate the English language so much?

  345. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:26 pm  (Quote)

    Dave, first, thank you for your civility. The “tell you what” approach is exactly what is needed – on both sides of the aisle. Noisewater has got problem or another going on – as evidenced by his hostile discourse. Regardless, two wrongs don’t make a right and so i apologize for my ass crack (pun intended) i made in my previous post.

    The article i produced the link to above reads in part:

    .
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: ‘It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ

    .

    This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it. Is that an unreasonable reading of these words? Seriously.

  346. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:31 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?No lies.Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable..Fukino said she saw it.Abercrombie says he can’t find it.Those are absolute factual statements.Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?.Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    Lester – this is a straightforward response to you.

    The reason you’ve generated some less than kind remarks is because you opened the door to making yourself look foolish by quoting second-hand tabloid renditions of the account, instead of the ACTUAL article from the Star Advertiser, which is the actual SOURCE interview.

    If you read the ACTUAL SOURCE article and then re-read those others…you will see that these others you were basing your post off of have completely twisted and mangled the story and are basing their assumptions on promises and words that were never actually said.

    It is either bad journalism or intentional journalistic malpractice. Either way, by going off on a rant and pointing to those bunk pieces as your source, you only make yourself look gullible. Gullible folks often end up as the butt of jokes, because openly putting yourself out there on wrong information makes you look foolish at best or “not to bright”…

    So face it, you’ve been had. Suck it up. Accept that your premise was based on bad info, which you got suckered into and try to move on. Maybe next time, you’ll be wiser and try to dig a bit deeper and look for the source to find what really happened and was said before you boldly post something based on faulty reporting.

    You only made yourself look worse in your last comment, because the answer and SOURCE was given to you directly above your own post. Maybe you were busy typing your response when it was posting and did not see it. I’m willing to try to give you that benefit of the doubt for now, so here it is for you again, for your benefit:

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Do you often get your news from a tabloid site? The notion that Abercrombie can’t find it is based on illiteracy. Namingly birthers not being able to read the actual interview and what he actually said.

    Instead of going to a third party tabloid read the original interview.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.”

    He clearly states it exists in their archives.

  347. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:32 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    BOOM ! !

    Another exploding irony meter.

    We’re probably going to need quite a few more for this poster.

    Will someone alert the irony meter factory, please?

  348. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:36 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Dave,first, thank you for your civility.The “tell you what” approach is exactly what is needed – on both sides of the aisle.Noisewater has got problem or another going on– as evidenced by his hostile discourse.Regardless, two wrongs don’t make a right and so i apologize for my ass crack (pun intended) i made in my previous post.The article i produced the link to above reads in part:.
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ.This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it.Is that an unreasonable reading of these words?Seriously.

    So when asked to quote from the original interview you defer back to the tabloid site putting words in his mouth, where in the original interview did the governor say he couldn’t find it?

  349. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:39 pm  (Quote)

    “literally all over the world”

    Literally. All over the world. Did anyone check with the Korowai in New Guinea or the Tuareg people in Northern Mali to be absolutely sure?

  350. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:49 pm  (Quote)

    The New York Times has become tabloid (somewhat less than reliable) too. Where do you think the Monica Lewinsky story first surfaced? – the Drudge Report. Where did the John Edwards story first surface? – the National Enquirer.
    .
    Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

  351. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 1:56 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

    Lester, again…SHOW us from the ACTUAL SOURCE interview where Abercrombie ever said he was going to secure a copy of the certificate…

    He simply NEVER has actually said that. Others keep trying to put words into his mouth but the only actual FACT here is what can be shown that Abercrombie himself has said –

    To date…there are ZERO actual statements that came directly from him in which he said what you wish to believe.

    ALL of his quotes or interviews to date have simply said he would LOOK INTO the matter to see what can be released.

    All the speculative tabloid journalism reporting on this has hyped this story so far into way more than it is and has led a lot of folks to false expectations.

    Sorry to let you down.

  352. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:03 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise

    Or, a simpler way to put it. Facts are ONLY facts…if they are actual FACTS.

    Simply speculating on something and then reporting that speculation doesn’t make it true. Such is NOT FACT.

    Mangling or getting the source facts wrong and then reporting the wrong info or wrong conclusion does not make it true either. Such is NOT FACT.

    Saying a l.i.e. over and over again does not make it any less of a l.i.e. Such is NOT FACT.

    Hopefully, you’ve learned something today.

  353. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm  (Quote)

    SqueekyFromm:
    You do not have to ban me, I will go.

    Apparently she managed to troll enough material to support her martyr complex.

  354. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm  (Quote)

    My goodness. I’m not talking about speculation in the least. If the governor had produced a copy by now that would be just as much of a fact as if he had not. Surely you are not saying that he HAS produced it? I would argue that stating that he can if he wanted to, or had the time or desire to, is more in line with what meets a definition of speculation.

  355. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:19 pm  (Quote)

    The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

  356. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:26 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Or, a simpler way to put it.Facts are ONLY facts…if they are actual FACTS.Simply speculating on something and then reporting that speculation doesn’t make it true.Such is NOT FACT.Mangling or getting the source facts wrong and then reporting the wrong info or wrong conclusion does not make it true either.Such is NOT FACT.Saying a l.i.e. over and over again does not make it any less of a l.i.e.Such is NOT FACT.Hopefully, you’ve learned something today.

    Maybe for next Christmas we can buy the birthers a copy of a English to Birtherese translating dictionary… assuming we can find one that can read English, of course.

  357. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:28 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    You don’t really have a good grasp of the whole “what was actually said” concept, in either instance…. do you….

  358. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:39 pm  (Quote)

    lester: and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would.

    Why is that so important to you?

    In other words, since born in the U.S. and date of birth are the two criteria necessary to directly satisfy two of the three Constitutional eligibility requirements and that is the information that has been provided and certified by the state of Hawaii, why would any other archived data matter?

    Do you think you have a right by law to any other archived information?

  359. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:44 pm  (Quote)

    The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    .

    We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

  360. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm  (Quote)

    lester: The New York Times has become tabloid (somewhat less than reliable) too. Where do you think the Monica Lewinsky story first surfaced? – the Drudge Report. Where did the John Edwards story first surface? – the National Enquirer..Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

    When I look at the times and they show a quote especially one that links back to an interview and I go and look at that interview and see they match up it shows they’re a bit more reliable than your daily news site which completely lies about what was said by the governor and uses as little quoting as possible and instead says what they say he says.

  361. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm  (Quote)

    lester: My goodness. I’m not talking about speculation in the least. If the governor had produced a copy by now that would be just as much of a fact as if he had not. Surely you are not saying that he HAS produced it? I would argue that stating that he can if he wanted to, or had the time or desire to, is more in line with what meets a definition of speculation.

    No. Nobody has said that.

    You seem to not pay attention to what people actually say and instead change the subject to whatever conversation you are having in your own head.

    I’m trying to have a fair and reasonable conversation with you, but it is difficult when you demonstrate difficulty with comprehending what is actually said and go off onto tangents and arguments completely of your own making.

    The only actual FACT here is that Abercrombie hasn’t actually PROMISED to produce any document at all.

    The ONLY thing he’s promised to do is ask about what exists and can be done. If the answers come back no different than everything we’ve heard already in the past from Fukino, etc., then he’s still accomplished what he actually said he would do.

    If some new document comes forth..woo-hoo! If not, oh well.

    The point is you pine both your hopes and accusations on expectations that were never actually promised. Therefore, if you hold to demanding results that were never even promised in the first place, you have not only set yourself up for disappointment but also lead yourself open to continuing to look both foolish and gullible.

  362. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:56 pm  (Quote)

    All’s i know is it is foolish and gullible to not ask for verification.

  363. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:00 pm  (Quote)

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”.We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

    Ah the good old I don’t have any proof the state official is lying but I’m just going to claim it anyway since I can’t back up what I said notion. It’s unreasonable for you to be suspicious of state officials when you have nothing to back up your suspicion. The COLB is the legal document the state uses. The Full Faith and Credit Clause gives it power. So how do we go about keeping you birthers a bit more honest?

  364. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm  (Quote)

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    There’s also the concept of confirmation bias, which you birthers have in abundance.

    In other words you’ll never believe the official documentation of the state, two state Governors, a host of state and federal officials, forensic experts, the entire elected opposition, and every legal and constitutional expert in the country, no matter how much substantive and objective evidence is presented, but…..

    Let any Conspiracy blog, supermarket tabloid, or right wingnut propaganda site draw an erroneous conclusion based on speculation, conjecture, or outright fabrication….. and that’s what you cling to.

    And you wonder why, after two years of the same old crap, over and over, from birther nutbags, we don’t take you seriously.

  365. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm  (Quote)

    lester: We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road.

    I couldn’t care either way. I can say personally that if I took the trouble to write to my birthplace and get an official birth certificate, I would expect it to be honored and would definitely take offense if some clowns who know nothing about either birth certificates or me immediately accused me of fraud. The COLB is more than any other presidential candidate has ever shown in all of history and contains all the necessary information. but if someone feels like wasting time in dusty old archives when they could be enjoying the lovely beaches of Hawaii, that’s their call.

    Frankly, I don’t give a damn either way (hope that doesn’t trigger the filters). Why do YOU care?

  366. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    Well, you are correct on one point – that his original statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    Where your assumption fails is that you’ve made the same mistake of going off of the speculative bad reporting that has ensued and made this into a bigger story than it actually is, instead of looking at what Abercrombie actually ever said – both then and now and in every verifiable statement he’s made on this issue in between.

    He’s NEVER promised to personally view or obtain anything.

    He’s ONLY promised to inquire into the issue. So, if he goes no further than asking someone in the DOH with sufficient knowledge and authority to explain things to him so he can understand it properly, than he’s fully accomplished what he ACTUALLY promised to do.

    If he takes it further than that…or something more comes from it than that, well great… but he’s never actually promised to do any of those things.

    Therefore, you too are basing your judgments on expectations that were never actually made.

  367. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:08 pm  (Quote)

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    .

    We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

    Oh the ironic hypocrisy!

    Why don’t you start by applying your whole “trust but verify” spiel, yourself?

    When you come here making assumptions based off of 2nd-hand and 3rd hand tabloid articles instead of spending a few minutes to look into the issue yourself first and find the actual source article…

    ..well…you’re not quite the model demonstration of someone who actually “verifies” anything before spouting off, are you?

    Sorry, but you’ve already completely blown any credibility you could have on railing for such idealistic notions from your very own actions.

    Try taking your own advice first if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

  368. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:09 pm  (Quote)

    ” couldn’t care either way. I can say personally that if I took the trouble to write to my birthplace and get an official birth certificate, I would expect it to be honored and would definitely take offense if some clowns who know nothing about either birth certificates or me immediately accused me of fraud.”
    .
    I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

  369. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:13 pm  (Quote)

    G: Well, you are correct on one point – that his original statement on this issue was made weeks ago.Where your assumption fails is that you’ve made the same mistake of going off of the speculative bad reporting that has ensued and made this into a bigger story than it actually is, instead of looking at what Abercrombie actually ever said – both then and now and in every verifiable statement he’s made on this issue in between.He’s NEVER promised to personally view or obtain anything.He’s ONLY promised to inquire into the issue. So, if he goes no further than asking someone in the DOH with sufficient knowledge and authority to explain things to him so he can understand it properly, than he’s fully accomplished what he ACTUALLY promised to do.If he takes it further than that…or something more comes from it than that, well great… but he’s never actually promised to do any of those things.Therefore, you too are basing your judgments on expectations that were never actually made.

    You might be right. I guess I’ve just been hoping beyond hope that the simple production of a document would shut down the “Obama wasn’t born in America” cabal of birtherism.
    When I looked at the raw politics of the issue, I saw the previous Republican administration issuing statements that would allow the issue to stay alive and give Obama the absolute minimum of back up. I have been hoping that the new Democratic Administration would end this issue (not ALL birtherism but “not born in Hawaii” birtherism) once and for all.

  370. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:19 pm  (Quote)

    lester: I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

    The COLB was called a fraud within 24 hours of when it was posted.

    I mean, let’s be serious, supposing I asked you for your b.c. and you ordered one and got it and I immediately said it was a fraud. You’d slug me and I’d deserve it. And how exactly would you go about “veriifying” your b.c., beyond ordering another copy of the exact same thing?

    And why exactly do you care?

  371. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:22 pm  (Quote)

    lester: All’s i know is it is foolish and gullible to not ask for verification.

    It is foolish and gullible to continue asking for verification after you’ve been given multiple verification. It makes it look less about the requirements for president and more about who Obama is

  372. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm  (Quote)

    Lester: I have a standing challenge to test the proposition that all birthers are 100% anti-Obama and wouldn’t vote for him no matter what. You have the opportunity to disprove my postulate if you can honestly say, “If there were a long form b.c. that showed all the same information as the COLB, and included a hospital and doctor, I would vote for Obama in 2012”. Since I doubt you can say that, I have to assume you would never support Obama under any circumstances. And if that is the case, then what would seeing the long form change for you?

  373. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist,
    I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole ‘nother discussion, I know.

  374. Dave says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm  (Quote)

    lester: The article i produced the link to above reads in part:.
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ.This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it.Is that an unreasonable reading of these words?Seriously.

    I see there has been a lot of discussion on this thread since this comment, which unfortunately I don’t have time to read right now, so forgive me if I’m just repeating what others have said.

    The problem is not that you are misreading the Daily Mail article. It is that the Daily Mail based their article on an interview in the Star Advertiser, and they claim Abercrombie said things he did not in fact say. The interview can be found here. Only a small part of the interview is on this subject, but what he says bears no relation to the Dail Mail’s characterization of his comments. You can read it for yourself.

  375. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:33 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Scientist,I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    So Lester, if the place you were born issued only 1 of those and I demanded the other, we’d be at an impasse. When impasses happen, the smart thing to do is to move on.

  376. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm  (Quote)

    You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

  377. obsolete says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm  (Quote)

    Birthers never had a reason not to trust Dr. Fukino, who verified Obama’s birth in Hawaii as per her job handling Hawaii’s official records.

    Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm
    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”

  378. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm  (Quote)

    lester: You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

    Show me one issued in the last 5 years.

    Also, please answer whether would you vote for Obama if he somehow got one and showed it to you? Please, this is an important scientific experiment. I am in quest of the pro-Obama birther and will not sleep until iIfind one.

  379. Rickey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm  (Quote)

    lester:d.”
    .
    I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

    You can’t come here and expect to have a reasoned argument if you can’t even bother to get your facts straight.

    1. Governor Abercrombie never promised to release Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate. Governor Abercrombie doesn’t have the authority to release Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate. He promised to see if there are other records which he can release which might satisfy people such as you. That tells me that he is looking for things such as contemporaneous logs or correspondence which will show that the birth certificate was received from the hospital, when it was received, etc.

    2. Since Governor Abercrombie has no authority to release the “long form,” there is no reason why he would be looking for it. In the original interview, he never mentions the birth certificate. So the idea that he can’t find the birth certificate is totally a figment of Jerome Corsi’s overheated imagination. Rags such as the Drudge Report and The Daily Mail then unquestioningly repeated Corsi’s lies. The fact is that there is nothing in Abercrombie’s interview which “suggests” that the “long form” birth certificate does not exist.

  380. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm  (Quote)

    We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen.
    .
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate. It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind.
    .
    As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

  381. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm  (Quote)

    lester: We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen..No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate. It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind..As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

    Under Hawaii law, Obama’s birth records can be released without Obama’s permission to (and I quote the law) “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certitied copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.”
    I think Lester owes his explanation for why no one who is concerned about Obama’s eligibility has simply sought a subpoena for the birth record and why in the several weeks since the Republicans took control of the House, there has been no congressional subpoena issued for Obama’s birth records.
    In fact, the new Speaker of the House, John Boehner is quoted as saying: “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”

  382. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: You might be right. I guess I’ve just been hoping beyond hope that the simple production of a document would shut down the “Obama wasn’t born in America” cabal of birtherism.
    When I looked at the raw politics of the issue, I saw the previous Republican administration issuing statements that would allow the issue to stay alive and give Obama the absolute minimum of back up. I have been hoping that the new Democratic Administration would end this issue (not ALL birtherism but “not born in Hawaii” birtherism) once and for all.

    Joey –

    While I admire your “hoping beyond hope”, sadly it is not very likely or realistic to expect that any additional release of information will tamper down the birthers and their nonsense one bit.

    Abercrombie’s own statements and actions appear to be born out of that same sincere desire that you have… which is already proving how naive such notions are of thinking that anything will stop the crazy.

    From the moment he naively made his first public statement in December to merely LOOK INTO the issue, his words were quickly twisted about and endlessly spread around to at best, set him up for failure and demand much more than he ever promised and at worst, often used completely out of context to say and imply the OPPOSITE of anything he said.

    The birthers never have been honest about their desire for answers here and that is what you have to accept to realize that pandering to their fake concern trolling for more information is not going to accomplish anything.

    They are deceiving you when they claim to only want more info. They don’t really want the truth at all…they just want Obama out of office and anything that does not help them achieve that will be ignored or twisted and shamelessly l.i.e.d about.

    Facts don’t matter to these people. Documents don’t matter either. This is not about “truth” for birthers. This is about their petty little hate based conspiracy smear campaign.

    Open your eyes and take a look at how EVERY development and bit of info that has been provided over the past 2 years has been treated by the birthers – they ignore EVERY piece of actual evidence, which ALL backs up his NBC status and just endlessly move the goal posts to some other crazy claim.

    Every bit of birther myth and l.i.e. that they’ve put out there gets endlessly recycled, no matter how thoroughly it has been shredded and debunked. Nothing deters their need to maintain their fantasy l.i.e.s or puts ANY of their debunked garbage to rest.

    They merely lay low on a trashed meme for awhile and then try to resurrect that exact same l.i.e. a few months later, hoping nobody will notice and that if can only just slip it into conversation and repeat it without being caught that people will gullibly buy into it.

    This sad cycle has already been repeated numerous times within just the past few years, so there is no reason to expect that anything will deter or change that.

    You need to just accept that these are a small group of loud, whiny dishonest people driven by hate that are completely unreachable, totally disingenuous and hopelessly irrelevant.

  383. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Scientist,I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Its not a whole discussion as the COLB is a birth certificate and is the form of birth certificate that Hawaii releases. There’s no difference between the words.

  384. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:08 pm  (Quote)

    G: Joey -While I admire your “hoping beyond hope”, sadly it is not very likely or realistic to expect that any additional release of information will tamper down the birthers and their nonsense one bit.Abercrombie’s own statements and actions appear to be born out of that same sincere desire that you have… which is already proving how naive such notions are of thinking that anything will stop the crazy.From the moment he naively made his first public statement in December to merely LOOK INTO the issue, his words were quickly twisted about and endlessly spread around to at best, set him up for failure and demand much more than he ever promised and at worst, often used completely out of context to say and imply the OPPOSITE of anything he said.The birthers never have been honest about their desire for answers here and that is what you have to accept to realize that pandering to their fake concern trolling for more information is not going to accomplish anything.They are deceiving you when they claim to only want more info. They don’t really want the truth at all…they just want Obama out of office and anything that does not help them achieve that will be ignored or twisted and shamelessly l.i.e.d about.Facts don’t matter to these people. Documents don’t matter either. This is not about “truth” for birthers. This is about their petty little hate based conspiracy smear campaign.Open your eyes and take a look at how EVERY development and bit of info that has been provided over the past 2 years has been treated by the birthers – they ignore EVERY piece of actual evidence, which ALL backs up his NBC status and just endlessly move the goal posts to some other crazy claim.Every bit of birther myth and l.i.e. that they’ve put out there gets endlessly recycled, no matter how thoroughly it has been shredded and debunked. Nothing deters their need to maintain their fantasy l.i.e.s or puts ANY of their debunked garbage to rest. They merely lay low on a trashed meme for awhile and then try to resurrect that exact same l.i.e. a few months later, hoping nobody will notice and that if can only just slip it into conversation and repeat it without being caught that people will gullibly buy into it. This sad cycle has already been repeated numerous times within just the past few years, so there is no reason to expect that anything will deter or change that.You need to just accept that these are a small group of loud, whiny dishonest people driven by hate that are completely unreachable, totally disingenuous and hopelessly irrelevant.

    Yeah, I hear you. I live on an intermittent schedule of reinforcement, and every once in a while, things go exactly the way I want them to go!
    I realize that if a long form magically appeared in Abercrombie’s hand, the birthers would immediately scream “forgery.” But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

  385. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Under Hawaii law, Obama’s birth records can be released without Obama’s permission to (and I quote the law) “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certitied copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.”

    Joey –

    Just a point of clarification:

    The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.

    That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large. That would violate various privacy acts.

    It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it. It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.

    Simple as that.

  386. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:16 pm  (Quote)

    Darn, I’m coming to think i will never find a pro-Obama birther.

    As far as eligibility, it is far from clear that Obama would not be elligible even if he were born outside the US (though he wasn’t). His mother’s marriage was of questionable validity and it’s not clear to me how the matter would be decided. If I had to guess, I would guess eligible.

    As for settling your mind, your doubts and fears, are, quite frankly, your own problem, not the President’s.

  387. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:17 pm  (Quote)

    lester: This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Your ridiculously and factually incorrect contention is noted.

    Do you contend there is a difference between Baloney and Bologna? Or between Ketchup and Catsup? How about the difference between KD and Kraft Dinner?

    If so…how adamantly would you cling to your contention, even if it overwhelming objective evidence that disagreed with it were given you?

    That’s OK, you’ve already provided the answer to that last question.

  388. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:19 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

    If this really was your honest intention, then you would realize by now that birthers never give up their myths, and create new one’s as required.

    That’s why it would be a mistake for Obama to even address that nutcase fringe element.

  389. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:22 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel, your argument is full of baloney. There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences. Come on, now.

  390. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:23 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: why in the several weeks since the Republicans took control of the House, there has been no congressional subpoena issued for Obama’s birth records.
    In fact, the new Speaker of the House, John Boehner is quoted as saying: “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”

    That’s easy.

    Boehner knows the law, and the Republicans ALSO regard the birthers as nutbags.

  391. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:23 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Joey –
    Just a point of clarification:The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large.That would violate various privacy acts.It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it.It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.Simple as that.

    The last thing he would want to do is put any kind of official document into the hands of the general public due to what they did to the document he put on the internet back in 2008 – they altered it and claimed that it was a forgery. One of the past trolls here called for him to do that, yet she herself said that she wouldn’t publish any of her personal information or legal documents for us to view due to the fact that she is afraid that someone may use them for nefarious purposes. President Obama has plenty of enemies, not the least of which are racists, who would definitely do something untoward with it. They expect President Obama to throw caution to the wind and do something they themselves would not do.

  392. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences.Come on, now.

    In the birther universe that may be true.

    However, in the real world, for Hawaii (and most other states for that matter), the COLB is the Birth Certiicate.

    The difference, is only in YOUR mind.

    Which is why you can’t get the Republicans to champion your cause, why you can’t win a court case, and why you can’t get more than a handful of people out to any of your birther rallies.

  393. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    lester: There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences. Come on, now.

    lester, you admitted you would oppose Obama even if he showed you 100 birth documents. So you lack, what, in business negotiations, is called leverage. The only folks who have leverage are those whose vote would be changed by those documents. And there appears to be no one who falls into that class. This may seem crass to you, but it’s how the world works.

  394. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.

    Would that be baloney, or bologna? And what, pray tell, do you contend is the difference BWAHAHAHA!!

  395. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences.Come on, now.

    Yeah, they look different, but according to the issuing agency

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.HTM

  396. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist, I only need 1 document, not 100. I also didn’t vote for john mccain and he showed his birth certificate. Just because a man or a woman has a valid birth certificate doesn’t make me want to vote for that person. I know that is not your criteria in deciding upon which candidate to vote for.

  397. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm  (Quote)

    lester: john mccain and he showed his birth certificate.

    He didn’t release it to the public though, now did he? And yet you accept his BC without question. But Obama, who did release his BC to the public, you refuse to believe.

    I wonder, what is the difference between McCain and Obama, that you accept one blindly, but not the other?

  398. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm  (Quote)

    lester: I also didn’t vote for john mccain and he showed his birth certificate

    Can you show me it?

  399. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:37 pm  (Quote)

    The COLB is absolute proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii, and even the speaker of the House said that Hawaii’s confirmation of that event is adequate enough for the body whose duty it is to ensure that the president is eligible. All irrational others can believe whatever they want, but when Congress says that he’s legit, he’s legit.

  400. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:37 pm  (Quote)

    Oh, please. You guys just like to argue, i guess. McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that. The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show. they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

  401. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:40 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, please.You guys just like to argue, i guess.McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that.The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show.they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?

    In fact, what federal agency requires of any applicant that their BC include the name of the hospital et?

  402. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm  (Quote)

    Just an interesting point, regarding Bovril’s attempt to estimate how many birthers there are. Every birther that comes here says he voted for someone other than Obama or McCain. All the minor candidates got a little over 1%. So, assuming the birthers bothered to vote, that is about their representation in the population. In fact, I suspect most of them would be in the 0.15% that voted for the Constitution Party.

  403. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm  (Quote)

    Lester,

    I’ve tried to be fair and kind to you and hold honest dialogue so far, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that you are not here for honest dialogue at all and are nothing but another committed Birther popping up here with an insincere “concern trolling” campaign of propaganda.

    This isn’t the first time on here that a “Lester” has popped up and started off with seemingly innocent “why can’t he” questions that quickly devolved into spewing the standard Birther litany of l.i.e.s. and failed arguments that have been completely thrashed and debunked here endlessly.

    Folks, I suspect this is the same “lester” who’s been here in the past with the same lame, failed “concern trolling” agenda. It may have been awhile since you’ve seen him and we’ve seen such an endless parade of these folks and the same arguments, that they are all easily forgettable and blend together…but it is becoming clear that we’re not dealing with anyone who is seriously “curious” or being honest, but is just another die hard disingenuous Birther “concern troll” wasting everyone’s time.

    Look at how his latest posts have devolved to the same old tired nonsense arguments:

    lester: Scientist,
    I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Let me stop you right there Lester with that tired old Birther L.I.E.

    FACT: A HI COLB is what EVERYBODY requesting a HI BC receives these days. Has been true for well over a decade.

    Said HI COLB is the ACCEPTED document that EVERY license bureau, passport issuing authority or any other government authority here in the U.S.A. would expect and have to ACCEPT as BC proof for someone born in HI.

    Hence, by definition, it is THE VALID DOCUMENT of AUTHORITY for verification of HI BIRTH.

    lester: You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

    FALSE. See above. Another long debunked Birther lie.

    All any serious person has to do is go to HI’s own DOH website and see the truth that they stopped issuing any “long form” well over a decade ago. Doesn’t matter if such a form was issued or existed long before that. All that matters is that if you request a BC from HI these days, ALL you get is the COLB and that IS THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT.

    lester:
    We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen.

    Again, this has been addressed endlessly on here and only seems reasonable to the truly uneducated.

    One word answer: HIPAA.

    lester:
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate.

    Well, probably the first HONEST answer you’ve given here.

    So as any reasonable person can conclude, why should the President care about catering to the whiny whims of you Birthers? If I was in his shoes, I sure wouldn’t.

    The ONLY impact you can have on the President is your VOTE and nothing he could or would do is going to get that from him anyways.

    lester:
    It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind.

    Ah yes, the tired meme of unhappy folks hiding behind claims of “The Constitution” to falsely justify their petty hatreds and dislike of others who are different from them.

    Sorry, you folks have “cried wolf” with abusing the “Constitution” so many times that this particular whine rings as hollow and unconvincing as it gets.

    As NO REAL EVIDENCE exists that disputes his Constitutional eligibility whatsoever, this is nothing but meaningless whining by people who only demonstrate that they neither follow nor really understand the actual Constitution or how it works.

    lester:
    As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

    And of course, he tries to pull a “Squeeky” with the false and nonsense claim about Chris Matthews.

    Just another nail in the “concern troll” coffin outing this Birther for what he is.

    Anyone with half a brain or who actually listened to anything Chris Matthews said or repeatedly says about Birthers understands that Chris Matthews is about as far from a “supporter” of Birtherism as it can get. He has repeatedly ranted AGAISNT birthers and has been VERY harsh in his remarks towards them and has openly called them “anti-patriotic” and “crazy”.

    Sorry Lester, we tried to be nice to you, but you’ve fully outed yourself and repeatedly proved that you’re nothing but a hopeless tried-and-true die-hard Birther trying to play at insincere “concern trolling” here.

  404. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, please.You guys just like to argue, i guess.McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that.The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show.they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Was McCane born in Hawaii? You get what the ruling authority gives out. Hawaii no longer gives out a long form, and the COLB is “considered for all purposes the same as the original.”

    Sorry you don’t like the facts, but any and every legal authority in the United States of America accepts the COLB as rock solid proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii

  405. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:48 pm  (Quote)

    lester: McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that

    Can you back this up? I have never heard any Senator say anything on this topic.

    G: lester:
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate.
    Well, probably the first HONEST answer you’ve given here.
    So as any reasonable person can conclude, why should the President care about catering to the whiny whims of you Birthers? If I was in his shoes, I sure wouldn’t.
    The ONLY impact you can have on the President is your VOTE and nothing he could or would do is going to get that from him anyways.

    I think you know I agree. Unless there is a block of birthers out there who WOULD vote for Obama if he released some form or other, he should not and will not release jack It’s harsh, but that’s how politics works.

  406. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:50 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: The last thing he would want to do is put any kind of official document into the hands of the general public due to what they did to the document he put on the internet back in 2008 – they altered it and claimed that it was a forgery. One of the past trolls here called for him to do that, yet she herself said that she wouldn’t publish any of her personal information or legal documents for us to view due to the fact that she is afraid that someone may use them for nefarious purposes. President Obama has plenty of enemies, not the least of which are racists, who would definitely do something untoward with it. They expect President Obama to throw caution to the wind and do something they themselves would not do.

    Precisely!

    This simple truth cannot be emphasized enough.

    The serious problems that occur with identity theft alone are enough of a real-world problem, even with existing privacy protections in place today, that any reasonable mind fully understands why the individual right to privacy is so important to protect.

  407. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:56 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Oh, please. You guys just like to argue, i guess. McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that. The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show. they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Nope. McCain didn’t even do that.

    The only evidence out there is that he BRIEFLY showed his BC to ONE REPORTER who specifically asked about it.

    And that is it. It has NEVER been released or published and we only have a single reporters statement saying that said reporter saw the document briefly to go on.

    And again with your lame birther nonsense about a COLB.

    You can’t get around the simple fact that EVERY government authority HAS to accept a COLB as BC proof wherever required. ALL license bureau agencies. ALL passport issuances.

    END OF STORY.

  408. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 4:57 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Precisely!This simple truth cannot be emphasized enough.The serious problems that occur with identity theft alone are enough of a real-world problem, even with existing privacy protections in place today, that any reasonable mind fully understands why the individual right to privacy is so important to protect.

    And I would further argue, G, that some of those who want it released want it just so that they can use it for those purposes since they know that birthers will believe them instead of the legal authorities that release it; that’s already been proven. Whatever he releases, they will alter it and claim it’s a forgery too. And then we’ll hear about the Hawaiian officials are lying about this new information again. Releasing anything will just throw fuel on the fire. They just want more stuff to renew and further their claims because the fact of the matter is that they are not interested in the truth; they are just interested in repeating the lie over and over and over again.

  409. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:

    Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?

    .
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”. But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…” and that is what the whole controversy is about. How does one go about proving that? It used to be the family Bible. Today it is a birth certificate.

    What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc? It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why. It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement. This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day. This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said. Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

  410. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:12 pm  (Quote)

    Here is a copy of McCane’s birth certificate from Hollander v. McCane.

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/McCain-SurreplyEx-7-21-08.pdf

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/hollanderv.mccain.php

    It’s clear that it is vintage 1936 and that the authority that holds it, the Department of the Navy, has not digitized their records as many of the US states have. Therefore, when requesting a copy of a birth certificate from the Navy, they issue a copy of what they have on file, which is the original. When Hawaii is queried for a birth certificate, they give out a certified copy of the contents of the original.

    It’s interesting to note that McCane’s BC is called a “Certificate of Birth” or a “Certificate of Live Birth” and not a “Birth Certificate.”

  411. lester says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:14 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHE..thank you for posting that.

  412. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm  (Quote)

    Congress is never going to ask for President Obama’s “birth certificate” because they know he was born there and that they must accept the certified copy as proof that he was born there. Once they do that, the issue is resolved, and they can’t milk it for political gain anymore. The last thing they want to do is put an official end to the lunacy.

  413. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm  (Quote)

    Just FUT is fine, no need for the THE

  414. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:21 pm  (Quote)

    lester: What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc? It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why.

    Who decided that? You? It’s not law. How is the highest? It’s better than DNA?

    So, who are you? Seriously. Were you granted legal authority to decide that?

    Are you on a special committee?

    When did that decision happen? In 2008? Really? What did you demand of G. W. Bush?

    If not, why not? Have you verified Bush’s long form BC? You have, right? Was he legally eligible to be in office? How do you know? Did you personally verify McCain’s credentials? The state of Hawaii verified Obama’s.

    Please explain how the hospital name and physician became qualifications and who decided?

    Or is interpreting the Constitution up to anonymous birthers now?

    Should every single citizen with “doubts” be provided with any information he or she wants until each and every doubter is satisfied?

    Really?

  415. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:22 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Unless there is a block of birthers out there who WOULD vote for Obama if he released some form or other, he should not and will not release jack It’s harsh, but that’s how politics works.

    Scientist, I think you would also agree that:

    – even under the unrealistic notion that there was “some” block of birthers who would “suddenly” vote for him, if he only released such-and-such documentation…

    …such a “block” would have to be statistically significant in size for it to matter politically at all.

    Honestly, let’s look at the entire probably size of the “true birthers” out there. Even under the preposterous fantasy situation where ALL of them suddenly would vote for him…

    …it is quite likely that such numbers would STILL be completely, statistically INSIGNIFICANT as a voting block.

    Over 69 MILLION people voted for Obama in 2008. That is over 9.5 MILLION more votes than his nearest competitor – John McCain and a sound THRASHING victory with a margin of over 7.2%

    A total of over 131 Million people voted in the 2008 Presidential election – translating to roughly slightly over 40% of the entire nation’s population.

    Of votes that went to OTHER than Obama or McCain – that entire official count was: 1,865,617 – in other words ONLY 1.4 PERCENT of that entire vote total.

    At that time, the strongest legitimate argument against Obama was the concern of what experience he had for the job.

    That argument is gone for 2012. Other than issues of the economy being a major factor, there is little sign out there that the GOP can provide a serious contender for 2012 so far.

    The truly “hard core” birthers we see or hear anywhere appear to be the same lot over and over again, often with multiple sock-puppets inflating their numbers.

    I’ve yet to see evidence that even with sock-puppets, that such numbers climb much higher than the low single-digit thousands at best.

    Even in trying to be kind to them and estimate that the “loud” portion of their numbers only represent some fraction of a “silent” hard-core birther contingency out there…

    …it becomes increasingly difficult to get their numbers to realistically grow to even the 1.4% margin that went for “other” in 2008.

    So, in summary, I would argue that as a whole, Birtherism is utterly statistically insignificant to Obama’s reelection vote total goals in the political sense.

  416. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:22 pm  (Quote)

    “How is the highest? It’s better than DNA?”

    s/b “How is it the highest? It’s better than DNA?”

  417. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:26 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Scientist, I think you would also agree that:- even under the unrealistic notion that there was “some” block of birthers who would “suddenly” vote for him, if he only released such-and-such documentation……such a “block” would have to be statistically significant in size for it to matter politically at all.Honestly, let’s look at the entire probably size of the “true birthers” out there.Even under the preposterous fantasy situation where ALL of them suddenly would vote for him……it is quite likely that such numbers would STILL be completely, statistically INSIGNIFICANT as a voting block.Over 69 MILLION people voted for Obama in 2008.That is over 9.5 MILLION more votes than his nearest competitor – John McCain and a sound THRASHING victory with a margin of over 7.2%A total of over 131 Million people voted in the 2008 Presidential election – translating to roughly slightly over 40% of the entire nation’s population.Of votes that went to OTHER than Obama or McCain – that entire official count was: 1,865,617 – in other words ONLY 1.4 PERCENT of that entire vote total.At that time, the strongest legitimate argument against Obama was the concern of what experience he had for the job.That argument is gone for 2012.Other than issues of the economy being a major factor, there is little sign out there that the GOP can provide a serious contender for 2012 so far.The truly “hard core” birthers we see or hear anywhere appear to be the same lot over and over again, often with multiple sock-puppets inflating their numbers.I’ve yet to see evidence that even with sock-puppets, that such numbers climb much higher than the low single-digit thousands at best.Even in trying to be kind to them and estimate that the “loud” portion of their numbers only represent some fraction of a “silent” hard-core birther contingency out there……it becomes increasingly difficult to get their numbers to realistically grow to even the 1.4% margin that went for “other” in 2008.So, in summary, I would argue that as a whole, Birtherism is utterly statistically insignificant to Obama’s reelection vote total goals in the political sense.

    And in another two years, when President Obama is running for reelection, that “statistically insignificant” number will become even more statistically insignificant.

  418. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:29 pm  (Quote)

    “You guys just like to argue, I guess.”

    Hello, Pot? The kettle called to remind you that you’re black.

    The birther is never interested in truth but always just some gentle soothing of their painful dissonance whenever that gosh darn confirmation bias is challenged.

    Pathetic.

  419. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:42 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Congress is never going to ask for President Obama’s “birth certificate” because they know he was born there and that they must accept the certified copy as proof that he was born there. Once they do that, the issue is resolved, and they can’t milk it for political gain anymore. The last thing they want to do is put an official end to the lunacy.

    Guess I should have said, “Republicans in Congress,” rather than just “Congress.” My bad

  420. Rickey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:53 pm  (Quote)

    Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

    And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdf

    Contrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

  421. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:59 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: I realize that if a long form magically appeared in Abercrombie’s hand, the birthers would immediately scream “forgery.” But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

    As would I Joey!

    Unfortunately, not only do I think your first part is all too true (they would just scream “forgery”), but also we have seen over and over again that IN ADDITION to doing that, they will just “move the goalposts” again, as they already have on so many occasions.

    Most of the birthers who’ve clamored for more evidence from HI in one breath have not even waited to finish that breath to try to throw in the de Vattel and Indonesian adoption myths.

    No matter how many times those ideas have been shown as ludicrous as well, they endlessly repeat the same tired talking points.

    So yeah, what is the point when birthers won’t even accept him as NBC, no matter what proof is provided about his birth in HI? They’ve clearly shown that HI birth is, in the end, irrelevant to them.

    Furthermore, based on their ability to ressurect long-debunked zombie arguments over and over again every few months (such as the easily dis-proven “Kenya grandmother” tape claims and poorly forged Kenya BCs) – what makes you think that publicly providing any such “long form” from HI and showing it all over the TV and in print will stop them from just laying low on that particular argument for a few months and then having the audacity to come back a few months later and make the same concern trollish claims for more documents to be released from HI and “pretend” that they haven’t already seen the long form?

    Face it, this issue has been all over the news and been sufficiently researched and discussed. Anyone who isn’t aware of it not only isn’t paying attention but doesn’t care.

    The birther propogandist hopes to be able to spread their L.I.E.S in the vain hope of reaching these otherwise disinterested people and get them to buy into it. If you honestly believe that the release of documents would stop them from trying to come back and pretend those very same documents were never released…well, you haven’t been paying attention to just how ludicrous they’ve been in their zombie resurrection of debunked issues.

    Furthermore and most importantly, for the rest of us, our own privacy rights and our laws as a whole -there is a lot more to be damaged and lost by pandering to them in the slightest than can possibly be gained in futile attempts to pacify a few of them:

    Once you start weakening privacy laws to cater to the whims of a few unreasonable, whiny people, you’ve truly opened a slippery-slope door to erode why these privacy laws and protections exist in the first place.

    Take a serious moment and reflect hard upon the potential implications and ramifications there.

    It is really no different from why this country must adhere to a policy of not negotiating with hostage takers.

  422. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:05 pm  (Quote)

    G: Joey – Just a point of clarification:The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large. That would violate various privacy acts.It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it. It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.Simple as that.

    Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access. Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”
    My point is that no one, with or without “authority” has been able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena. I’m primarily talking about Grand Juries, prosecuting attorneys and members of Congress.
    If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena?

  423. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:07 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdfContrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

    You know, Rickey, I just accepted that if McCane was going to submit anything to a court of law, it would be the real thing. However, when I looked at what is linked to in Hollander v. McCane, I noticed that some of the type was much clearer in some parts than others, which made me think forgery. From reading Doc’s article, it’s clear that it is, in fact, a forgery, but I do have a question. Why would McCane or any of his attorneys submit a forged document to a court of law?

  424. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Just an interesting point, regarding Bovril’s attempt to estimate how many birthers there are. Every birther that comes here says he voted for someone other than Obama or McCain. All the minor candidates got a little over 1%. So, assuming the birthers bothered to vote, that is about their representation in the population. In fact, I suspect most of them would be in the 0.15% that voted for the Constitution Party.

    Another interesting point, and one I put out to the entire regular community here…

    Have you noticed a pattern on this site, that as soon as one “concern trolling” birther gets soundly thrashed and finally leaves that another one mysteriously and suddenly appears in its place, starting the same cycle of “innocent” sounding questions all over again, only to rapidly devolve into spouting the same litany of hard-core birther arguments?

    Maybe I’m being too influenced by all these “conspiracy” nuts…but I smell a coordinated effort.

    It is like one tags-out and the next one tags-back in…

  425. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm  (Quote)

    There are other documents that were submitted along with that birth certificate that were created in 2008. It may be that the original birth certificate had been altered at that time for some reason, but why would someone do that?

  426. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:14 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And I would further argue, G, that some of those who want it released want it just so that they can use it for those purposes since they know that birthers will believe them instead of the legal authorities that release it; that’s already been proven. Whatever he releases, they will alter it and claim it’s a forgery too. And then we’ll hear about the Hawaiian officials are lying about this new information again. Releasing anything will just throw fuel on the fire. They just want more stuff to renew and further their claims because the fact of the matter is that they are not interested in the truth; they are just interested in repeating the lie over and over and over again.

    Well said. Agreed, completely!

  427. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:17 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?.
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”.But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…”and that is what the whole controversy is about.How does one go about proving that?It used to be the family Bible.Today it is a birth certificate.What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc?It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why.It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement.This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day.This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said.Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

    Actually its not the highest level of proof. If you don’t accept that it says he was born on August 4th 1961 in Honolulu, HI why would you accept that he was delivered by Dr Rodney West at kapiolani Medical Center? It wouldn’t take any sails out of the birther argument as they’ve already moved on to other theories like 2 citizen parents, dual citizenship at birth, etc which have nothing to do with the birth certificate.

  428. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:18 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdfContrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

    Good points, Rickey.

    Thank you for reminding us of this.

  429. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access. Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”
    My point is that no one, with or without “authority” has been able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena. I’m primarily talking about Grand Juries, prosecuting attorneys and members of Congress.
    If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena

    Joey,

    I agree with what you said.

    My point of clarification was meant to address your issues in broader context of what they mean, as similar statements have been frequently used on here to mistakingly think “release” to certain folks is equivalent to the “public”.

    I never said that YOU specifically mentioned the public and I apologize if it came across this way.

    Your mention of the issue merely provided me an opportunity to speak out on that issue and clarify further on what that means, as I’ve seen similar statements be misused and misinterpreted before.

    Just trying to head off problems at the pass. Thanks again for your post.

  430. Rickey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Why would McCane or any of his attorneys submit a forged document to a court of law?

    It was submitted by Hollander, not by McCain. McCain never submitted anything other than the motion to dismiss.

  431. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:39 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    It was submitted by Hollander, not by McCain. McCain never submitted anything other than themotion to dismiss.

    lol. okay. Thanks. That explains it then

  432. Keith says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:51 pm  (Quote)

    G: Have you noticed a pattern on this site, that as soon as one “concern trolling” birther gets soundly thrashed and finally leaves that another one mysteriously and suddenly appears in its place, starting the same cycle of “innocent” sounding questions all over again, only to rapidly devolve into spouting the same litany of hard-core birther arguments?

    Yes.

    I made the same point a few months back and got mildly pooh-poohed about how we shouldn’t be seeing conspiracies everywhere. (Uh, blog title anyone?).

    I also noticed the same thing about the tag team of the birfoon lawsuits, one gets kicked out of court and another is immediately there with hype and paypal button entreaties, round and round and round.

  433. Rickey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:55 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access.Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”

    I believe that you are missing the point.

    Even assuming that a Congressional committee could successfully subpoena the “long form,” they still could not make it public, In my business we serve subpoenas for medical records on a daily basis, but that doesn’t give me the right to make those records available to anyone else,

    All the committee could do is release a report saying that they reviewed the long form and that it shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Do you think that would satisfy the birthers? They would still scream that it is probably a forgery, etc.

    Also, I would think that even a Congressional subpoena has to comply with HIPAA. Any medical subpoena that I serve has to be accompanied by a HIPAA authorization signed by the patient, How would Congress get around this? Perhaps they could, but my experience tells me that this would not be as easy as you seem to believe.

  434. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:04 pm  (Quote)

    lester: Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?.
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”.But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…”and that is what the whole controversy is about.

    Is it? Is that what the whole controversy is about?

    No, unfortunately it’s not.

    The whole ridiculous thing is about hating the guy in office, and being a sore loser.

    You see if it was about the requirements, then the evidence that is both legally sufficient, and all that is required by any legal authority, including Congress, who are charged with vetting the President’s eligibility, would be enough for you.

    If it was about the requirements, then you birthers would be demanding the same level of “proof” from every past president as you do from this one.

    But if you were honest about it, you’d admit that not only did you never ask for any other President…. you don’t even really care whether any other President provided his “long form”

    lester: How does one go about proving that?It used to be the family Bible.

    So you’re saying you’d take the word ofd somebody’s family Bible over the legal documentation of the State of Hawaii? You don’t find that at least a little hypocritical?

    lester: Today it is a birth certificate.

    Apparently not for you, since you won’t accept his Birth Certificate, unless Hawaii changes it’s laws to conform to YOU.

    lester: What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc?It is the highest level of proof there is,

    Noooooooo……

    The highest form of proof there is would be for you to have personally attended the birth and delivered Obama yourself. You see your “highest form” is just where you decide to set the bar arbitrarily. The problem with your arbitrary bar position for proof is that no matter what the state produces, you will simply move the bar just beyond what was provided, so you can pretend that you havn’t seen proof.

    lester: that’s why.It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement.This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day.This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said.Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

    Well aside from your dishonest and erroneous interpretation of what was said by both those people, you know damn well you birthers (yes YOU birthers, not them. You’re as much of a birther as any, you just pretend to be SOTF, like every other concern troll we’ve had) would never accept anything as proof. If you were given what you demand you’d simply shift the goalposts once again, move the bar higher, as it were. How do we know this? Well you’ve been doing just that for two years now, shifting the goal posts whenever you get what you demand.

    The “issue” was put to bed the day that Congress ratified the election.

    The ridiculous nutbag conspiracy fallacy will never be put to vbed until birthers like you grow up and accept you lost the election to a black man.

    And no, I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.

  435. Majority Will says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:08 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: All the committee could do is release a report saying that they reviewed the long form and that it shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Do you think that would satisfy the birthers? They would still scream that it is probably a forgery, etc.

    And any Republican on the committee is suddenly a RINO or better yet, the vile birther b.s. that they were afraid of igniting a race war.

  436. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:16 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Anyone who is able to convince a judge

    Well that’s kind of the crux, isn’t it?

    You’d have to convince a judge that your “cause I wanna” need to see it overrides the legal requirements of privacy laws.

    The judge would want to know why you need to see it.

    If you told him it was to detemine Obama’s eligibility, he’d dismissit based on a number of points.

    1. You are not the authority charged with determining eligibility.

    2. Eligibility has already been established

    3. The BC presented is legal and sufficient to prove birth, and so no other documentation is required.

    But please feel free to bring the case if you like. Let’s see you put your money where your birther mouth is.

  437. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena?

    Because it’s not…

    It’s not the greatest, or the nearly greatest, or the 10th greates, or the millionth greatest, or even the fourth from the last greatest.

    It’s not a “constitutional crisis” at all.

    Nobody questions Obama’s eligibility at all, outside of a handful of cranks, nutbags, and attention whores.

    Why do you think all the birther rallies can’t get more attendees than would fit in a ford minivan without the stowable seat option.

    Or look at it this way. There’s about the same amount of birthers as there are flat earthers, but you don’t hear anyone talking about a “geographical crisis”, now do you?

  438. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:37 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    And any Republican on the committee is suddenly a RINO or better yet, the vile birther b.s. that they were afraid of igniting a race war.

    I think they’ll bypass the RINO and go straight to TRAITOR

  439. Scientist says:
    January 21, 2011 at 7:54 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: It’s not the greatest, or the nearly greatest, or the 10th greates, or the millionth greatest, or even the fourth from the last greatest.

    I’ll go further and say that even if an indisputably ineligible person (say someone with 2 non-citizen parent who was proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have been born abroad) somehow made it into the White House it wouldn’t be the greatest constitutional crisis ever. Compared to millions spending their lives in slavery and the secession of 13 states? Not even close.

    Several members of Congress, including one of the greatest ever, Henry Clay, were seated before they reached the minimum age specifiied in the Constitution. Nobody, including many of the founders who were alive at the time, really seemed to think it was a big deal.

    This country faces many very serious issues. Presidential eligiibility just isn’t one of them.

  440. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 8:30 pm  (Quote)

    Well that’s kind of the crux, isn’t it?You’d have to convince a judge that your “cause I wanna” need to see it overrides the legal requirements of privacy laws.The judge would want to know why you need to see it.If you told him it was to detemine Obama’s eligibility, he’d dismissit based on a number of points.1. You are not the authority charged with determining eligibility.2. Eligibility has already been established3. The BC presented is legal and sufficient to prove birth, and so no other documentation is required.But please feel free to bring the case if you like. Let’s see you put your money where your birther mouth is.

    The last poll on this issue that I saw showed 14% of registered voters do not believe that Obama was born in the US. (A CNN poll from last August)

    I could definitely see a Grand Jury investigation into his eligibility to be president having been convened in a deep red, heavily Republican state like Idaho or Alabama. When Grand Juries are convened to examine ANY issue, judges give prosecuting attorneys great deference in issuing subpoenas for documents and for witnesses.

    Once again, the fact that NO crazy birther district attorney or state Attorney General has even ATTEMPTED to convene a grand jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility to be on the ballot in any very conservative state speaks volumes to me about the validity of the birther movement.

  441. Joey says:
    January 21, 2011 at 9:07 pm  (Quote)

    In case anyone missed it, this is the latest poll that I could find on the saturation of birtherism among registered voters:
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

  442. G says:
    January 21, 2011 at 9:45 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: In case anyone missed it, this is the latest poll that I could find on the saturation of birtherism among registered voters:
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

    Thanks for sharing. I looked at the link.

    I do have one question: where did you get that those polled under question #41 were “registered voters”?

    I did not see anything that indicated that in the info provided at the link.

    Is there more info somewhere that clarifies that?

  443. Daniel says:
    January 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: Once again, the fact that NO crazy birther district attorney or state Attorney General has even ATTEMPTED to convene a grand jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility to be on the ballot in any very conservative state speaks volumes to me about the validity of the birther movement.

    Exactly, no validity at all.

    Maybe it’s because, politics aside, District Attorneys generally know the law.

  444. Dave says:
    January 21, 2011 at 11:25 pm  (Quote)

    Joey — that poll is from last summer, and DrC put up a thread for it back then, and it was hashed over extensively at that time. My take is that, if you read the actual question they asked, this poll really has only a tangential relationship to birtherism.

  445. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 12:53 am  (Quote)

    G: Thanks for sharing. I looked at the link. I do have one question: where did you get that those polled under question #41 were “registered voters”?I did not see anything that indicated that in the info provided at the link.Is there more info somewhere that clarifies that?

    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

  446. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 12:59 am  (Quote)

    Dave: Joey — that poll is from last summer, and DrC put up a thread for it back then, and it was hashed over extensively at that time. My take is that, if you read the actual question they asked, this poll really has only a tangential relationship to birtherism.

    “Do you think Barack Obama was definitely born in the United States, probably born in the United States, probably born in another country, or definitely born in another country?”

    What’s tangential about that?

  447. Daniel says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:07 am  (Quote)

    Because it ignore the overwhelming part of the question, which is. “Do you care”? to which most of those people would have answered “No”.

  448. obsolete says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:18 am  (Quote)

    Hawaii says law prevents releasing more Obama birth info
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    “Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

    “The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”

    Like many here have said, Abercrombie cannot release anything without Obama’s consent. No one will waste his time trying to get it.

    Cue The Conspiracies…

    (at this point, if Hawaii & Abercrombie were in on it, wouldn’t it be easy for them to produce a forgery on real Hawaiian paper with a real seal? Why would they not produce anything? How does that help Obama?)

  449. Majority Will says:
    January 22, 2011 at 6:47 am  (Quote)
  450. Sef says:
    January 22, 2011 at 8:06 am  (Quote)

    Joey:
    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

    In my experience as an election inspector I have found that many people think of themselves as affiliated with a particular party, but their actual registration is different. They may need to be registered a particular way in order to maintain employment or marriage, but when they get in the voting booth they do something quite different.

  451. Steve says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:45 am  (Quote)

    How do birthers tend to view HIPPA and other privacy laws?
    Are they ignorant of them and how they apply in this case?
    Do they view them as a cop-out, or that the President or a candidate for President is not worthy of protection from those laws because the interest voters have in knowing a person’s eligibility for the office supercedes any rights to privacy?

  452. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 12:46 pm  (Quote)

    Sef: In my experience as an election inspector I have found that many people think of themselves as affiliated with a particular party, but their actual registration is different. They may need to be registered a particular way in order to maintain employment or marriage, but when they get in the voting booth they do something quite different.

    As I understand public opinion poll interviews, they ask the interviewee what they consider themselves to be: Democrat, Republican or Independent. You are correct that many people are registered with one party but regularly vote for another party.
    In polls of “likely voters” there are follow up questions to determine how much the interviewee knows about polling places, recent election outcomes and how frequently they say that they vote.
    And then we have the Paula Joneses of the world: “Republicans? now are they the good-uns or the bad-uns/”

  453. Majority Will says:
    January 22, 2011 at 1:09 pm  (Quote)

    Steve: How do birthers tend to view HIPPA and other privacy laws?
    Are they ignorant of them and how they apply in this case?
    Do they view them as a cop-out, or that the President or a candidate for President is not worthy of protection from those laws because the interest voters have in knowing a person’s eligibility for the office supercedes any rights to privacy?

    IMO, the birthers argue that the President has no right to privacy because:

    – he advocates transparency
    – he works for us
    – the highest office needs different rules
    – I hate negroes.

  454. nc1 says:
    January 22, 2011 at 2:02 pm  (Quote)

    What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?

    What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

  455. Scientist says:
    January 22, 2011 at 2:33 pm  (Quote)

    Wouldn’t the original birth certificate be “written down”? Surely it’s not in the form of an audio tape or home movie. And presumably it is kept in the archives as opposed to, say, under the sofa cushions in the Governor’s mansion.

    Besides, if there iis one thing I think both sides can agree on, it is that the Gov seems to often forget the old aphorism, “engage brain before opening mouth”.

  456. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 22, 2011 at 2:50 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Wouldn’t the original birth certificate be “written down”?Surely it’s not in the form of an audio tape or home movie.And presumably it is kept in the archives as opposed to, say, under the sofa cushions in the Governor’s mansion.Besides, if there iis one thing I think both sides can agree on, it is that the Gov seems to often forget the old aphorism, “engage brain before opening mouth”.

    oh look the return of NC1 didn’t he scurry off like 6 months back?

  457. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 22, 2011 at 2:54 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

    Yes, amazing it wasn’t done on a computer back in 1961, isn’t it?

    I think that someone wrote it down in the records 50 years ago because they could see into the future and knew that Barack Obama would need it when he ran for president in 2008. There’s no other explanation, is there? Just like with those newspaper announcements; must be the same psychic who perpetrated that fraud but there could be others

  458. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:23 pm  (Quote)

    It’s comical the way they examine every word, every syllable, with a magnifying glass. Abercrombie says it’s “written down,” and that’s their cue to start questioning who wrote it and when. All of a sudden, just because it was written, that opens up a whole new conspiracy about how it got there. Just more proof that they will find some reason, no matter how zany, to disbelieve anything and everything that proves them wrong.

    Your next stop, the twilight zone – Abercrombie wrote it himself because he’s a liberal and a friend of Obama’s parents. lmao

  459. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:37 pm  (Quote)

    I can see them now:

    “First Abercrombie said he couldn’t find anything. Now he says it’s “written down.” Hmmmmmmmmm.”

    roflmao.

  460. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:40 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

    As a dedicated Obama supporter, I find Governor Abercrombie’s statement to be vague and bordering on nonsensical, particularly after the previous Republican administration stated in no uncertain terms that officials of the Lingle administration had personally seen Obama’s original birth certificate, that the certificate says that he was born in Hawaii and a Lingle administration official declared Obama to be a “natural born American citizen.” Governor Lingle herself stated that Obama was born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. The former Governor stated unequivocably: “It’s been established. He was born here.”
    The Hawaii Republicans did a much better job of defending Obama’s bona fides than new Governor Abercrombie is doing.

  461. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:52 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

    Ah, I understand the deductive reasoning there. However, I want to caution that I’ve learned there are folks out there who “affiliate” themselves with one party or the other, but who aren’t actually “registered” to vote.

    These include folks who consider themselves of a certain party, just because they grew up in a household that always affiliated with that party (yet they themselves don’t vote); folks who were registered as such at one time, but moved and never bothered to re-register; and folks who aren’t registered voters, but due to whatever recent/current event, identify themselves with a specific party.

    So, just a word of caution.

    I understand how you deduced your conclusion, but from experience, I’m wary of making that same leap.

  462. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 3:56 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: Because it ignore the overwhelming part of the question, which is. “Do you care”? to which most of those people would have answered “No”.

    Although I see your point, I’m not aware of a single poll that has covered the “birther” topic in any form that has asked the follow-up of “Do you care”.

  463. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 4:21 pm  (Quote)

    G: Ah, I understand the deductive reasoning there. However, I want to caution that I’ve learned there are folks out there who “affiliate” themselves with one party or the other, but who aren’t actually “registered” to vote.These include folks who consider themselves of a certain party, just because they grew up in a household that always affiliated with that party (yet they themselves don’t vote); folks who were registered as such at one time, but moved and never bothered to re-register; and folks who aren’t registered voters, but due to whatever recent/current event, identify themselves with a specific party.So, just a word of caution.I understand how you deduced your conclusion, but from experience, I’m wary of making that same leap.

    There is no crosschecking of voter registration rolls done by national public opinion polling organizations. They simply take the interviewee’s word for it as to whether they consider themselves to be a Democrat, a Republican or an independent.
    The point is that a statistically valid and reliable poll tries to approximate the national registration percentages of all three cohorts in order to get a represenative sample. The percenrages don’t have to be absolutely accurate in order to be represenatative.
    I already posted previously to exactly what you say above, just because a person is registered in one party doesn’t mean that they vote for that party on a consistent basis.
    And more than two years out from the next general election, voter registration and likely voter status aren’t particularly relevant anyway.

  464. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 4:32 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Hawaii says law prevents releasing more Obama birth info
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/“Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.“The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”Like many here have said, Abercrombie cannot release anything without Obama’s consent. No one will waste his time trying to get it.Cue The Conspiracies…(at this point, if Hawaii & Abercrombie were in on it, wouldn’t it be easy for them to produce a forgery on real Hawaiian paper with a real seal? Why would they not produce anything? How does that help Obama?)

    Not surprised at all. Nor should anyone be, who actually followed the source articles of what Abercrombie actually promised to do.

    Unfortunately, there was a wide variety of bad journalistic practices on display out there that didn’t just report on the original story, but added a lot of overblown speculation into their retelling. I’m not just talking about WND, which has a long history of being nothing but a trash agenda rag willing to twist stories and outright l.i.e. Almost every 2nd-hand report was rife with adding the bad speculative conclusions of their own. It just shows how far true journalistic integrity has fallen in this country and reminded me of the lessons of that old game of “telephone tag” as a kid.

    In the end, Abercrombie accomplished what he actually promised to do and got an answer. The answer was not what he probably was hoping for nor what any of the speculators hoped for.

    But it was the answer that anyone more familiar with looking into this issue and how laws on these records are treated would expect.

    In the end, it is just another over sensationalized story that turns out to be much ado about nothing and confirms what anyone who’s realistically followed such things already knew.

    Abercrombie can be faulted for being a bit naive on all aspects of this for putting himself out there – not only in not knowing enough of how records privacy laws work himself, but also as a politician, not fully grasping how likely his statements would become twisted and sensationalized in the media, setting himself up to be judged on expectations beyond both his intent and also what he could deliver on.

    So yes, he comes out of this with a little bit of egg on his face – not for failure, but for naivety. Chalk it up to a quick lesson learned by a new first-time governor at the beginning of his term trying to adapt to the difference between governing and legislating.

    The online, print and tv “journalists” that sensationalized the story and did their own jobs poorly did the greatest disservice to both themselves and their audiences here and deserve any blame to be had for setting up false expectations. I doubt they’ll learn or care about any egg on their face in this. Really, it is such a trivial issue anyways, that this isn’t something that will in any way be a wake-up call to them.

    The true egg on the face falls where it always has on this issue – the Birthers. As usual, they worked themselves up into such a tizzy and made such bold assumptions and pronouncements (and as usual, based on such a hollow foundation to begin with) that they doomed themselves from the get-go to be disappointed and wrong yet again. At best, they look woefully naive and gullible…yet again.

    More importantly, the end result just provided more confirmation of what most of us already knew and states the resolution in some good definitive terms, that to any reasonable person, would end this line of inquiry into the matter:

    HONOLULU — Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.
    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.
    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president.”

    Of course, sadly, we know birthers and the hopelessly delusional conspiracy mind better than that. No matter what the result was, nothing would have changed from the birther whines out there.

    And in the end, we are back where we started. Much Ado About Nothing.

  465. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 4:45 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: There is no crosschecking of voter registration rolls done by national public opinion polling organizations. They simply take the interviewee’s word for it as to whether they consider themselves to be a Democrat, a Republican or an independent.
    The point is that a statistically valid and reliable poll tries to approximate the national registration percentages of all three cohorts in order to get a represenative sample. The percenrages don’t have to be absolutely accurate in order to be represenatative.
    I already posted previously to exactly what you say above, just because a person is registered in one party doesn’t mean that they vote for that party on a consistent basis.
    And more than two years out from the next general election, voter registration and likely voter status aren’t particularly relevant anyway.

    But they can simply ask as part of their questions, “are you a registered voter” or “did you vote in the last presidential election”.

    They DO often ask a series of questions like this. I know, as I’ve answered a number of various phone polls.

    These questions not only help them build their internal model of “likely voters”, which you already pointed out, but more importantly to what we’re discussing, can help identify “registered voters” (or at least those who claim to be … we know for all polling purposes, all we can do is “assume” the person being polled is answering honestly, but cannot guarantee it).

    When no question of that nature is asked as part of the poll, than “party affiliation” cannot be linked to anything more than someone’s personal identification to a party and “affiliation” is all that can be fairly deduced – NOT “registered voter”.

    Usually, poll results will clearly use words in their results breakdown and state “registered voters” if they feel they’ve been able to deduce that.

  466. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 4:58 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will: Another birther rat’s nest in the comments (some familiar):http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/01/21/fun-new-birther-conspiracy-based-upon-illiteracy.aspx

    Usually, article headline titles have been woefully sloppy and over sensationalized.

    This time Weigel got it 100% correct and summed up the whole matter perfectly and succinctly with his headline:

    Fun New Birther Conspiracy Based Upon Illiteracy

  467. Daniel says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:00 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    Although I see your point, I’m not aware of a single poll that has covered the “birther” topic in any form that has asked the follow-up of“Do you care”.

    Not so far as I know either, but it should be, as it makes a huge difference.

    For instance if one answered the question ““Do you think Barack Obama was definitely born in the United States, probably born in the United States, probably born in another country, or definitely born in another country?”

    with the answer “probably born in another country, but I really don’t care”, that’s a huge difference from “probably born in another country, and that’s a constitutional crisis”.

    Unfortunately the birthers will always assume that “probably born in another country” means that the person supports birtherism or is on their side, when it really means that most people don’t even know about POTUS eligibility requirements, or just don’t give a damn about the politics.

    If all the “probably” people were birthers, like the birthers claim, then you’d have thousands attending birther rallies, instead of three lonely little birthers.

  468. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:04 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: As a dedicated Obama supporter, I find Governor Abercrombie’s statement to be vague and bordering on nonsensical, particularly after the previous Republican administration stated in no uncertain terms that officials of the Lingle administration had personally seen Obama’s original birth certificate, that the certificate says that he was born in Hawaii and a Lingle administration official declared Obama to be a “natural born American citizen.” Governor Lingle herself stated that Obama was born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. The former Governor stated unequivocably: “It’s been established. He was born here.”
    The Hawaii Republicans did a much better job of defending Obama’s bona fides than new Governor Abercrombie is doing.

    But today’s reporting on the results of his investigation is fairly clear and direct, so that’s now been addressed. It has already been referenced & posted several times above, but I guess it bears additional repeating. Here are the relevant excerpts:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    HONOLULU — Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president.”
    …
    But Abercrombie’s investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

    Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.
    …
    Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

    “The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”

    The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president’s birth date, city and name, along with his parents’ names and races.

  469. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:13 pm  (Quote)

    G: But they can simply ask as part of their questions, “are you a registered voter” or “did you vote in the last presidential election”.They DO often ask a series of questions like this. I know, as I’ve answered a number of various phone polls.These questions not only help them build their internal model of “likely voters”, which you already pointed out, but more importantly to what we’re discussing, can help identify “registered voters” (or at least those who claim to be … we know for all polling purposes, all we can do is “assume” the person being polled is answering honestly, but cannot guarantee it).When no question of that nature is asked as part of the poll, than “party affiliation” cannot be linked to anything more than someone’s personal identification to a party and “affiliation” is all that can be fairly deduced – NOT “registered voter”.Usually, poll results will clearly use words in their results breakdown and state “registered voters” if they feel they’ve been able to deduce that.

    I thnk we are talking about the difference between asking: “Are you a registered voter?” If so, in which party are you registered.” And asking: “Do you consider yourself to be a Democrat, a Republican or an Independent.”

  470. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:19 pm  (Quote)

    G: But today’s reporting on the results of his investigation is fairly clear and direct, so that’s now been addressed. It has already been referenced & posted several times above, but I guess it bears additional repeating. Here are the relevant excerpts:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    Wait until Black Lion starts posting the right wing wacko responses to what you have posted.

  471. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:28 pm  (Quote)

    Steve: How do birthers tend to view HIPPA and other privacy laws?
    Are they ignorant of them and how they apply in this case?
    Do they view them as a cop-out, or that the President or a candidate for President is not worthy of protection from those laws because the interest voters have in knowing a person’s eligibility for the office supercedes any rights to privacy?

    First of all, it is HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act), which went into effect back in 1996.

    For some reason, HIPPA has become a very common mis-writing of it… I think because I’ve commonly heard people assume it means “Portability and Protection” instead of Accountability)….

    Anyways, back to answering your question.

    I thought Majority Will’s answer back to you on this was pretty good, but I wanted to add a bit more to it, from my POV.

    Obviously, we don’t truly know the “birther” mind…as it does not seem to be based on logic.

    From the arguments they’ve “claimed”…it seems that birthers try to argue that public officials and Presidents in particular do not deserve ANY individual privacy rights, whatsoever at all.

    …Or at least they apply that “argument” to Obama specifically and to no prior candidate at all – so there is that contradiction in their thinking already.

    Birthers seem to constantly (and often intentionally) misconstrue “government transparency” as an excuse to apply that to one particular individual’s private records. I argue “intentionally” as it seems this is nothing but a tactic “bait and switch” argument by them to seem like a legitimate argument by using the word “transparency”. However, it is hard to believe their sincerity on taking this stance, since they often support it with intentional and obvious lies which falsely claim that “Obama sealed all his personal records” as his first order of business” – a claim which is so easily and quickly debunked that any honest even semi-intelligent person would stop making that false claim …but they never do. Which just shows they were never sincere about that meme in the first place.

    Furthermore, a fair number of birthers will try to take a lofty tone “claiming” this idealistic position that if “they” were running they would not expect any privacy at all and release “everything” to “everybody” at a moment’s notice.

    Those unrealistic “lofty” notions dont’ seem to hold up or be consistent either – as the same people claiming they would do things this way are often making contradictory statements about what they would reveal about themselves when pushed…and it quickly becomes clear that when push comes to shove, they would only want such “release” applied to one individual – Obama and most certainly not to themselves.

    So it is a completely hypocritical and nonsensical position that only “sounds good” on paper and is nothing more than a paper tiger argument to try to trick and sway people into thinking that there is any sincerity to the Birther motives whatsoever at all.


    In summary, although there is definitely a level of willful ignorance by many birthers on the issue of privacy rights & laws…such excuses no longer fly when these folks have put all the “time” into looking at the issue and yet still ignore ALL the real answers they’ve found which explains such laws and continue to try to push such angles.

    In the end, it just underscores that Birthers arguments are completely disingenuous and nothing but distracting excuses to try to “concern troll” on the issue.

    They don’t really care at all about HIPAA or other Privacy laws…they just want any excuse they can come up with to smear and “nullify” Obama and try to pretend that his election never happened.

    Their true motives and beliefs on these issues are no deeper than that.

  472. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:36 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: I thnk we are talking about the difference between asking: “Are you a registered voter?” If so, in which party are you registered.” And asking: “Do you consider yourself to be a Democrat, a Republican or an Independent.”

    Yeah, I agree. I think it comes down to that.

    It all comes down to what the pollster asked up front to get to their results and how they provide and label those results to us.

    On this particular poll you provided, it is simply a matter that the results link you showed me didn’t give me enough info to ascertain what they actually asked to arrive at their results and to properly deduce whether the results portrayed a breakdown of just “affiliated voters” or “registered voters”.

    I do not fault you at all in your deduction nor the link you provided. I merely point out that the data I saw does not tell me enough to deduce anything further. I don’t know if that particular poll also publicly released more in-depth data that would answer those questions better for us. If you find such a link, let me know.

  473. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 5:51 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: G: But today’s reporting on the results of his investigation is fairly clear and direct, so that’s now been addressed. It has already been referenced & posted several times above, but I guess it bears additional repeating. Here are the relevant excerpts:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    Wait until Black Lion starts posting the right wing wacko responses to what you have posted.

    LOL! Yes, that should be fun and BL is quite excellent at wading through the cesspool and doing that for us. 😉

    Although, based on past “birther” trends I’ve noticed that two general reactions tend to happen in the Birtherverse:

    1. When a “new angle” of speculation comes out…the birthers buzz around like crazy.

    2. However, in certain cases where the “new information” released can be viewed as a “clear smackdown” of their claims (or a clear lawsuit defeat) – they either:

    A) buzz just as loudly in defiant anger or

    B) they get *cricket* quiet for awhile… simmering in their defeat and trying to lay low just long enough to come up with some new angle to twist and mis-characterize the results or hope that they can just quietly ignore it for awhile and re-bring up the same zombie issue a few weeks/months later as if the clear smackdown never happened…

    Today’s article is obviously a #2 situation…but whether it leads to the A) or B) reaction from them will be most interesting to find out.

    Since today’s news release is fairly clear & definitive – yet at the same time “Much Ado About Nothing” as I’ve stated above … I’m actually expecting the reaction to be a mixed-bag across the Birtherverse of A & B.

    I suspect that those who’ve been plugging the WND l.i.e.s angle of the original story will try to hold to their l.i.e.s and respond defiantly (A)… and that some of the others will lay low and try to ignore this actual article completely – or at least lay low long enough until they have WND’s next l.i.e. and twist on things to rally behind and take direction from.

  474. obsolete says:
    January 22, 2011 at 6:22 pm  (Quote)

    The fact that Hawaii has vital records of Obama’s birth should be enough to convince anyone rational. Or do they think that Kenya stores its vital records in Hawaii?

  475. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: The fact that Hawaii has vital records of Obama’s birth should be enough to convince anyone rational. Or do they think that Kenya stores its vital records in Hawaii?

    Agreed !

  476. Majority Will says:
    January 22, 2011 at 7:27 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: Or do they think that Kenya stores its vital records in Hawaii?

    Tomorrow’s WND headline.

  477. nc1 says:
    January 22, 2011 at 7:55 pm  (Quote)

    Gov. Lingle claimed that the original birth certificate is stored in the archive. She also claimed that Obama was born in the Kapiolani hospital. Yet Abercrombie, an Obama ally, could not find the original birth certificate – just something written down.

    Another argument supporting the scenario I told you long time ago – Obama’s birthplace story is a lie. His birth was registered by a relative (most likely his grandmother).

    The question is – who forged the COLB? What other explanation is out there for continuous refusal by both Hawaii governors to confirm that this document was issued to Obama by DoH in 2007?

  478. Scientist says:
    January 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Yet Abercrombie, an Obama ally, could not find the original birth certificate – just something written down

    You’re behind the curve. Show me in his own words that he couldn’t find it (not some reporter’s speculation). What the state has said is that the law bars its release. If you don’t like that, all I can suggest is that you move to Hawaii, run for the Legislature and try to change the law protecting people’s privacy. Good luck to you.

    In the mean time, back on planet Earth, who cares?

  479. Majority Will says:
    January 22, 2011 at 8:30 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Another argument supporting the scenario I told you long time ago – Obama’s birthplace story is a lie. His birth was registered by a relative (most likely his grandmother).

    And you’re just as full of sh!t now as you were then, birther troll. I thought you’d be in prison or deported by now. Surprising.

  480. Joey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 9:19 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Gov. Lingle claimed that the original birth certificate is stored in the archive. She also claimed that Obama was born in the Kapiolani hospital. Yet Abercrombie, an Obama ally, could not find the original birth certificate – just something written down.Another argument supporting the scenario I told you long time ago – Obama’s birthplace story is a lie. His birth was registered by a relative (most likely his grandmother). The question is – who forged the COLB? What other explanation is out there for continuous refusal by both Hawaii governors to confirm that this document was issued to Obama by DoH in 2007?

    Janice Okubo, Director of Communications for the Hawaii Department of Health told the St. Petersburg Times newspaper in 2008 that Obama’s COLB was “a valid state of Hawaii birth certificate.” No one has initated a forgery investigation of that document.
    Anyone who just MUST actually SEE Obama’s birth certificate can get it released, without Obama’s permission, by court order. For example, any House of Representatives Committee Chairperson holding hearings to contemplate new legislation concerning the requirements to run for president can issue a Congressional Subpoena for Obama’s birth certificate. Perhaps with Republican control of Congress, a subpoena will come but thus far, no court order.
    “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there, that’s good enough for me.”–
    John Boehner, Speaker of the House.

  481. nc1 says:
    January 22, 2011 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    You’re behind the curve.Show me in his own words that he couldn’t find it (not some reporter’s speculation).What the state has said is that the law bars its release.If you don’t like that, all I can suggest is that you move to Hawaii, run for the Legislature and try to change the law protecting people’s privacy.Good luck to you.In the mean time, back on planet Earth, who cares?

    ————————————————————————————————————-

    Behind the curve – phrase that describes Obama supporters quite well.

    There is no law preventing Abercrombie from confirming that DoH issued COLB to Obama in 2007.

    There is no privacy issue involved – Obama campaign published alleged birth certificate. How would a government official violate Obama’s privacy by confirming that the COLB was indeed issued by DoH?

  482. Daniel says:
    January 22, 2011 at 9:31 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: .How would a government official violate Obama’s privacy by confirming that the COLB was indeed issued by DoH?

    They already have… where have you been?

  483. nc1 says:
    January 22, 2011 at 9:43 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    Janice Okubo, Director of Communications for the Hawaii Department of Health told the St. Petersburg Times newspaper in 2008 that Obama’s COLB was “a valid state of Hawaii birth certificate.” No one has initated a forgery investigation of that document.
    Anyone who just MUST actually SEE Obama’s birth certificate can get it released, without Obama’s permission, by court order. For example, any House of Representatives Committee Chairperson holding hearings to contemplate new legislation concerning the requirements to run for president can issue a Congressional Subpoena for Obama’s birth certificate. Perhaps with Republican control of Congress, a subpoena will come but thus far, no court order.
    “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there, that’s good enough for me.”–
    John Boehner, Speaker of the House.

    =====================================================================

    Why did you omit the last part of Okubo’s statement to Politifact – the one where she admits that it is not possible to say what the image represents. You are an Obot who is not interested in finding the truth and protecting the rule of law.

    Dr. Conspiracy told you guys that the registration number was assigned by the central DoH office in Honolulu and according to Okubo local registrars sent registrations on weekly basis to Honolulu office. Therefore, Nordyke certificates make it highly unlikely that Obama’s certificate originated at Kapiolani.

    That is the reason why DoH would not confirm that 10641 is the birth registration index number for Obama. This number was fraudulently included into document presented by FactCheck.

  484. nc1 says:
    January 22, 2011 at 9:52 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel:
    They already have… where have you been?

    Hawaii DoH has been asked (many times) a very simple, direct question whether they issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    Guess what – they refuse to confirm it.

  485. Slartibartfast says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:18 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Hawaii DoH has been asked (many times) a very simple, direct question whether they issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.Guess what – they refuse to confirm it.

    Sorry, Dr. Fukino confirmed it in testimony to the Hawai’ian legislature. On the record and everything… (she confirmed that a copy of the president’s birth certificate was posted online).

  486. G says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Behind the curve – phrase that describes Obama supporters quite well.

    There is no law preventing Abercrombie from confirming that DoH issued COLB to Obama in 2007.

    There is no privacy issue involved – Obama campaign published alleged birth certificate. How would a government official violate Obama’s privacy by confirming that the COLB was indeed issued by DoH?

    nc1: Hawaii DoH has been asked (many times) a very simple, direct question whether they issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    Guess what – they refuse to confirm it.

    LOL! Oh the irony! Talk about behind the curve. I guess you’ve missed today’s news.

    Here, let me refresh you:

    G: But today’s reporting on the results of his investigation is fairly clear and direct, so that’s now been addressed. It has already been referenced & posted several times above, but I guess it bears additional repeating. Here are the relevant excerpts:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    HONOLULU — Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president.”
    …
    But Abercrombie’s investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

    Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.
    …
    Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

    “The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”

    The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president’s birth date, city and name, along with his parents’ names and races.

  487. Majority Will says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:38 pm  (Quote)

    Why are birthers mentally ill?

  488. Rickey says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:46 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Yet Abercrombie, an Obama ally, could not find the original birth certificate

    Another birther lie.

    Show me where Abercrombie said to anyone that he couldn’t find the original birth certificate. A primary source, not the lies published by WND.

  489. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 22, 2011 at 10:54 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast:
    Sorry, Dr. Fukino confirmed it in testimony to the Hawai’ian legislature.On the record and everything…(she confirmed that a copy of the president’s birth certificate was posted online).

    That she did, slart

    “…President Obama has posted a copy of the certificate on his former campaign website.”

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/28117439/Sb2937-Testimony-Jgo-02-23-10-Late

  490. Slartibartfast says:
    January 22, 2011 at 11:30 pm  (Quote)

    FUT,

    In fact, since the posted COLB has been confirmed to have been genuine, we now know that everyone who said that it was a fake was wrong (I’m looking at you ‘Dr. Polarik’ – care to admit that you are a lying dirtbag?). So far I haven’t heard any apologies for jumping to conclusions…

  491. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 22, 2011 at 11:38 pm  (Quote)

    Slartibartfast: FUT,In fact, since the posted COLB has been confirmed to have been genuine, we now know that everyone who said that it was a fake was wrong (I’m looking at you ‘Dr. Polarik’ – care to admit that you are a lying dirtbag?).So far I haven’t heard any apologies for jumping to conclusions…

    Which is just what WND said a long time ago; in fact, they said that those who had claimed it was fake had altered it themselves

    “A separate WND investigation into Obama’s birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren’t originally there..”

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

  492. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 22, 2011 at 11:45 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    =====================================================================Why did you omit the last part of Okubo’s statement to Politifact –the one where she admits that it is not possible to say what the image represents.You are an Obot who is not interested in finding the truth and protecting the rule of law.Dr. Conspiracy told you guys that the registration number was assigned by the central DoH office in Honolulu and according to Okubo local registrars sent registrations on weekly basis to Honolulu office.Therefore, Nordyke certificates make it highly unlikely that Obama’s certificate originated at Kapiolani.That is the reason why DoH would not confirm that 10641 is the birth registration index number for Obama.This number was fraudulently included into document presented by FactCheck.

    You’re still going on and on about getting a confirmation of getting a confirmation. You make such a bold statement claiming the number was fraudulent without any proof. This was a habit for you before. You’re still asking the same question you were asking the last time you ran off. So tell me after looking at the birth index how many Barack Hussein Obama’s do you think were born of Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Hussein Obama Sr on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii?

  493. Majority Will says:
    January 23, 2011 at 12:16 am  (Quote)

    nc1 is a dishonest douche bag. She is as sincere as any hardcore birther.

  494. Joey says:
    January 23, 2011 at 12:38 am  (Quote)

    nc1: =====================================================================Why did you omit the last part of Okubo’s statement to Politifact – the one where she admits that it is not possible to say what the image represents. You are an Obot who is not interested in finding the truth and protecting the rule of law.Dr. Conspiracy told you guys that the registration number was assigned by the central DoH office in Honolulu and according to Okubo local registrars sent registrations on weekly basis to Honolulu office. Therefore, Nordyke certificates make it highly unlikely that Obama’s certificate originated at Kapiolani.That is the reason why DoH would not confirm that 10641 is the birth registration index number for Obama. This number was fraudulently included into document presented by FactCheck.

    Why do you misinterpret and edit what Janice Okubo said in order to deceitfully try make your point? Have you no integrity at all?

    Here’s her exact quote and “it’s not possible” the words you want to put in her mouth are a long way from “I don’t know if its possible for us to even say BEYOND A DOUBT…”

    Here’s the FULL quote: Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”

    She is absolutely right, it is not possible beyond a doubt to determine the validity of a document from a scanned image of that document posted on a web site. To authenticate a document, you need a hard copy of it. If the President needs a hard copy of his COLB to get on the ballot in some states in 2012, I’m certain that the Abercrombie administration will be more than happy to provide one for him.

    However based on what the St. Petersburg Times emailed to her, she said: “Its a valid Hawaii state birth certificate.” And later in the article it is reported that she said that Obama’s COLB is identical to the one she got for herself from the state.

    The difference of a couple of single digits in registration numbers can be easily accounted for by certificates mailed to DOH over a weekend not being recorded in exact order of date and time of birth or by different DOH clerks adding the registration numbers.
    “It’s been established. He was born here.”–Governor Linda Lingle (R) Hawaii
    “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”–Speaker of the House of Representatives John Boehner (R).

  495. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:11 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): You’re still going on and on about getting a confirmation of getting a confirmation. You make such a bold statement claiming the number was fraudulent without any proof. This was a habit for you before. You’re still asking the same question you were asking the last time you ran off. So tell me after looking at the birth index how many Barack Hussein Obama’s do you think were born of Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Hussein Obama Sr on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii?

    =================================================================

    Do you really believe that registration index does not contain the number? It is a laughable explanation that only name (and sex) is part of the index. What would happen if a person decided to change their name and changed it in such way to create a duplicate record in the DoH database? That would create a big problem if they did not have a mechanism in place to prevent this scenario from happening.

    There is an opinion letter from OIP lawyers (June 1990) where it was explicitly mentioned that registration (file) number is part of the index data and it should be released upon request.

    In the meantime they revised the law and left it to the DoH director’s discretion to release any additoinal information other than name and sex.

    To summarize, there is no law that prevents Hawaii DoH to confirm that number 10641 is indeed used to register Obama’s birth. Abercrombie can hide behind a phony privacy issue when it comes to releaseing the copy of birth certificate (the “written down” thing in the archive). However, using a minimalistic approach when it comes to releasing trivial data like registration number is suspicious. This field was blacked out on the first image of alleged COLB (Daily Kos version). It will, of course, get scrutiny from those wanting to confirm the truth by looking at facts rather than having a blind faith that government officials would tell the truth.

    Nordyke certificates and Okubo’s claims about DoH procedures for registering births make the unattended birth a most likely scenario that fits ALL available information.

    And finally, to answer your question on how many Barack Obama’s were registered in Hawaii’s birth index: the real question is not whether he was registered there but WHEN did it happen? Did it happen in 1961 or sometimes later, much later?

  496. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:29 am  (Quote)

    nc1: And finally, to answer your question on how many Barack Obama’s were registered in Hawaii’s birth index: the real question is not whether he was registered there but WHEN did it happen? Did it happen in 1961 or sometimes later, much later?

    Blah, blah, blah. Give it a rest, you delusional twit! Your nonsense is getting old. Funny how Lester gets his butt thrashed and runs away and all of a sudden you pop up, spewing the same old tired nonsense as before.

    What do you think you gain by coming here? None of us are dumb enough to fall for any of your nonsense. You’re here because your peeved because the question has been answered yet again and HI has confirmed they have records of his birth. Your silly make believe arguments carry no weight and there is nothing you can do about the fact that Obama is POTUS. Well, you can vote against him again in 2012…but that’s about it. So good luck with that.

  497. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:32 am  (Quote)

    Rickey: Another birther lie.Show me where Abercrombie said to anyone that he couldn’t find the original birth certificate. A primary source, not the lies published by WND.

    ====================================================================
    Let me translate for you what Abercrombie said: The original birth certificate on file is something “written down”.

    Based on Fukino’s and Lingle’s statements one would expect that the DoH archive contains the same document for Obama as it does for Nordyke twins. If it did, Abercrombie would have said it. It was his goal to end the controversy, yet he only added fuel to the fire because he contradicted the previous governor.

  498. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:33 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    =================================================================Do you really believe that registration index does not contain the number?It is a laughable explanation that only name (and sex) is part of the index.What would happen if a person decided to change their name and changed it in such way to create a duplicate record in the DoH database?That would create a big problem if they did not have a mechanism in place to prevent this scenario from happening.There is an opinion letter from OIP lawyers(June 1990) where it was explicitly mentioned that registration (file) number is part of the index data and it should be released upon request.In the meantime they revised the law and left it to the DoH director’s discretion to release any additoinal information other than name and sex.To summarize, there is no law that prevents Hawaii DoH to confirm that number 10641 is indeed used to register Obama’s birth.Abercrombie can hide behind a phony privacy issue when it comes to releaseing the copy of birth certificate (the “written down” thing in the archive).However, using a minimalistic approach when it comes to releasing trivial data like registration number is suspicious.This field was blacked out on the first image of alleged COLB (Daily Kos version).It will, of course, get scrutiny from those wanting to confirm the truth by looking at facts rather than having a blind faith that government officials would tell the truth.Nordyke certificates and Okubo’s claims about DoH procedures for registering births make the unattended birth a most likely scenario that fits ALL available information.
    And finally, to answer your question on how many Barack Obama’s were registered in Hawaii’s birth index:the real question is not whether he was registered there but WHEN did it happen? Did it happen in 1961 or sometimes later, much later?

    You’re hung up about a registration number that has been explained to you multiple times. Numbers were put on them according to whatever order they were grabbed from a pile. The fact remains Hawaii is under no obligation to make any comments because you simply don’t have a right to know. I would have thought you would have moved on to more productive things by now than to be hung up over a registration number.

  499. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:55 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    ====================================================================
    Let me translate for you what Abercrombie said: The original birth certificate on file is something “written down”.Based on Fukino’s and Lingle’s statements one would expect that the DoH archive contains the same document for Obama as it does for Nordyke twins.If it did, Abercrombie would have said it.It was his goal to end the controversy, yet he only added fuel to the fire because he contradicted the previous governor.

    Yes, he said “written down, ” but he didn’t say that “the original birth certificate is something written down;” that’s what YOU said, not Abercrombie

    lmao. The only quotes you have there are around “written down.” You added the rest. A mere two words is hardly a direct quote of what Abercrombie said other than two words and doesn’t carry the meaning you’ve given it by adding your own words that you want him to have said.

  500. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:57 am  (Quote)

    Yes, Abercrombie said “written down, ” but he didn’t say, “The original birth certificate on file is something written down;” that’s what YOU said, not Abercrombie

  501. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:07 am  (Quote)

    Joey: Why do you misinterpret and edit what Janice Okubo said in order to deceitfully try make your point? Have you no integrity at all?Here’s her exact quote and “it’s not possible” the words you want to put in her mouth are a long way from “I don’t know if its possible for us to even say BEYOND A DOUBT…”Here’s the FULL quote: Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”She is absolutely right, it is not possible beyond a doubt to determine the validity of a document from a scanned image of that document posted on a web site. To authenticate a document, you need a hard copy of it. If the President needs a hard copy of his COLB to get on the ballot in some states in 2012, I’m certain that the Abercrombie administration will be more than happy to provide one for him.However based on what the St. Petersburg Times emailed to her, she said: “Its a valid Hawaii state birth certificate.” And later in the article it is reported that she said that Obama’s COLB is identical to the one she got for herself from the state.The difference of a couple of single digits in registration numbers can be easily accounted for by certificates mailed to DOH over a weekend not being recorded in exact order of date and time of birth or by different DOH clerks adding the registration numbers.“It’s been established. He was born here.”–Governor Linda Lingle (R) Hawaii“The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”–Speaker of the House of Representatives John Boehner (R).

    ======================================================================
    1. Okubo’s final statement to Politifact contradicts her previous statement that it was a valid Hawaii COLB. Since it is impossible to tell whether an image posted on the web is a genuine or a fake you cannot use her first statement as a given fact. I just called you on that one. I find it fascinating that she would not confirm specifics related to that COLB – the refusal to confirm the June 6, 2007 as issuing date. The only rational explanation is that COLB presented on the FactCheck is a fake – not issued by the DoH. Nobody wants to confirm trivial things that are supposed to be in public domain.

    2. Okubo mentioned that local birth registrars sent registrations to the DoH central office on a weekly basis. Therefore, Obama’s registration should have been sent and processed by the DoH on August 11, 1961, together with Nordyke registrations.

    The real problem is the Date Filed on Obama’s certificate – it is not possible that Obama’s certificate originated at Kapiolani and was processed three days earlier than Nordyke certificates. If Obama’s certificate had a Date Filed August 11, 1961 your explanation about slight mismatch in registration numbers could be plausible.

    3. Politicians never lie. They never had an opinion that proved to be wrong later on, right? In addition, the State of Hawaii did not say that Obama was born there until after the resolution was issued by the US Congress in 2009.

  502. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:21 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, Abercrombie said “written down, ” but he didn’t say, “The original birth certificate on file is something written down;” that’s what YOU said, not Abercrombie

    I said that it was my translation of Abercrombie’s words. There is NOTHING else in the DoH archive other than the “written down” thing. That must have been the same document that Fukino mentioned in her first press-release (October 2008). It would explain the language used in her statement where she never confirms his birthplace – only the fact that they have something in the archive.

    What Fukino considered the “original birth certificate” in her first press release and what Obama supporters assumed by those words were not the same things. She did not see the long form birth certificate on file. Abercrombie confirmed it.

    His statement also confirms what Tim Adams said – there is no hospital-generated long form brth certificate for Obama.

  503. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:22 am  (Quote)

    Yes, politicians lie, the FBI lies, supreme court justices lie, the FEC lies, the media lies, the GOP lies, the DNC lies, the CIA lies, DHS lies, the Army lies, the State Department lies, the Navy lies, the Air Force lies, the Marines lie, every federal judge lies, all the governors of Hawaii lie, Fox News lies, the Joint Chiefs of Staff lie, Hillary Clinton lies, the Defense Department lies, John McCane lies, every Republican in Congress lies, in fact everyone in any position of authority is lying all for Barack Obama. lmao.

  504. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:24 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    I said that it was my translation of Abercrombie’s words.There is NOTHING else in the DoH archive other than the “written down” thing.

    Yes, according to YOU there isn’t. No one from Hawaii ever said there was nothing else in the DOH archive. That’s your “translation” of what Abercrombie said, BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT HE SAID!

  505. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:26 am  (Quote)

    And Adams said that someone told him there wasn’t. He never said who that person was. That’s hearsay to begin with, and without knowing the source of that information so that we can see who said it and how they know it, it means absolutely nothing. Orly Taitz could have told him that for all we know, and of course she’s going to say it

  506. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:28 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    ======================================================================
    1. blah blah blah
    2. Oblah blah blah
    .3.Politicians blah blah blah

    *yawn*

    Give it up already. All you are is a broken record.

    You completely ignore everything that is pointed out to you that answers or contradicts your nonsense and go back to spouting the same tired junk over and over again.

    Since you choose to ignore the responses given to you, I choose to ignore your tired nonsense. Its nothing you haven’t lamely said over and over and over again.

    Your points are meaningless. Your endless rants don’t change reality. You need serious mental help.

    Sorry you can’t deal with Obama being President and that your useless words can’t do anything about it. Sucks to be you. Good luck with the next 2-6 years being an unhappy ranting loon.

  507. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:29 am  (Quote)

    They really are getting desperate, huh G? Now their regurgitating that Adams crap.

  508. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:34 am  (Quote)

    If you really think all those people are lying then you might as well just hang it up because if that’s the case, there’s nothing you can do about it anyway. You’ll just end up being a victim of your own delusion

  509. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:40 am  (Quote)

    Actually, what Abercrombie really said was that in addition to the valid birth information for President Obama, there was a doctor’s note of verification “written down.”

  510. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:42 am  (Quote)

    That’s my “translation.”

  511. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:52 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Actually, what Abercrombie really said was that in addition to the valid birth information for President Obama, there was a doctor’s note of verification “written down.”

    What date is on the doctor’s note: 1961 or 2006?

    Let me type it slow: Unattended Late Birth Registration

    Scenario perfectly fits available information and explains observed behavior from main players in this story.

  512. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:10 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Let me type it slow: Unattended Late Birth Registration

    Scenario perfectly fits available information and explains observed behavior from main players in this story.

    Type it as slow as you want- your scenario has already been debunked.
    His birth was filed days later, and is NOT amended as a late registration.
    Hawaii Health Dept. sent the birth info to the two newspapers, published days later, so that also proves it was not registered late and he was born in the hospital as he and all the available info says.

    You have to really squint sideways to come up with the crap you are pushing. It doesn’t even make sense. Is the new conspiracy Obama was born in Hawaii but not in a hospital, and everyone is covering this up, even though it means nothing as far as being eligible goes?

    Really- what is unclear about this statement?
    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”

    Again, you and birthers like BZ twist clear, concise statements and facts to mean things that have no basis in reality. It is really amazing to watch.

    Rational people wouldn’t hang their hat on minor anomalies such as Obama’s certificate number being off by a few from the Nordyke’s, when it could easily be explained by someone dropping a stack of papers, or the order in which they were filled out. What is the significance of the number difference? What is the nefarious truth behind it? Would a court really nullify a Presidential election over it? Are you this insane in other areas of your life?

  513. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:10 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, politicians lie, the FBI lies, supreme court justices lie, the FEC lies, the media lies, the GOP lies, the DNC lies, the CIA lies, DHS lies, the Army lies, the State Department lies, the Navy lies, the Air Force lies, the Marines lie, every federal judge lies, all the governors of Hawaii lie, Fox News lies, the Joint Chiefs of Staff lie, Hillary Clinton lies, the Defense Department lies, John McCane lies, every Republican in Congress lies, in fact everyone in any position of authority is lying all for Barack Obama. lmao.

    It would be easy to determine who said the truth and who lied if the following things happened:

    1. UIPA law is followed and Hawaii DoH confirms/denies whether the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    2. Hawaii Doh confirms/denies whether a COLB was issued to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    3. Government issues full passport documentation for Obama’s mother. Claim that records prior to 1965 were destroyed must be backed up with detailed explanation of circumstances about alleged destructoin. It is very unlikely that 20 years old passport records for living persons were destroyed. Subsequent investigation could not find any order to destroy passport records.

    4. Government confirmed/denied whether Obama had a US passport when he travelled to Pakistan in 1980.

  514. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:21 am  (Quote)

    nc1: 1. UIPA law is followed and Hawaii DoH confirms/denies whether the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    2. Hawaii Doh confirms/denies whether a COLB was issued to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    3. Government issues full passport documentation for Obama’s mother. Claim that records prior to 1965 were destroyed must be backed up with detailed explanation of circumstances about alleged destructoin. It is very unlikely that 20 years old passport records for living persons were destroyed. Subsequent investigation could not find any order to destroy passport records.

    4. Government confirmed/denied whether Obama had a US passport when he travelled to Pakistan in 1980.

    1- Hawaii has seen images Obama has presented with this number- Their silence would indicate a non-issue.

    2- Hawaii has confirmed they issued a COLB to Obama, and acknowledged that he posted it to his website. Should they also examine the stamps used on the envelope to mail it?

    3- Government documentation for Obama’s mom issued so far has shown nothing out of the ordinary, and proved that Obama’s mom did not give up hers or her sons citizenship. State Dept. said Obama was born in Hawaii.

    4- Government has said Obama had a passport while a minor. Seeing that travel to Pakistan was legal in 1980, there is no reason to suspect he used anything other than his US passport. There is no evidence he ever had anything other than a US passport, so this request is really pushing the edge of batshit insane.

    Dr. Fukino’s sworn statements as to Hawaii having Obama’s birth records, and that he was born in Hawaii, really make your requests seem like those of a child that doesn’t like the answer it received, so it keeps asking in different ways.

    Can I have some candy?
    NO.
    Can I have some gum?
    NO
    Can I have a tootsie-pop?
    NO
    Where is my lollipop, you didn’t say I couldn’t have a lollipop..

  515. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:25 am  (Quote)

    nc1: 1. UIPA law is followed and Hawaii DoH confirms/denies whether the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    2. Hawaii Doh confirms/denies whether a COLB was issued to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    3. Government issues full passport documentation for Obama’s mother. Claim that records prior to 1965 were destroyed must be backed up with detailed explanation of circumstances about alleged destructoin. It is very unlikely that 20 years old passport records for living persons were destroyed. Subsequent investigation could not find any order to destroy passport records.

    4. Government confirmed/denied whether Obama had a US passport when he travelled to Pakistan in 1980.

    1- Hawaii has seen images Obama has presented with this number- Their silence would indicate a non-issue.

    2- Hawaii has confirmed they issued a COLB to Obama, and acknowledged that he posted it to his website. Should they also examine the stamps used on the envelope to mail it?

    3- Government documentation for Obama’s mom issued so far has shown nothing out of the ordinary, and proved that Obama’s mom did not give up hers or her sons citizenship. State Dept. said Obama was born in Hawaii.

    4- Government has said Obama had a passport while a minor. Seeing that travel to Pakistan was legal in 1980, there is no reason to suspect he used anything other than his US passport. There is no evidence he ever had anything other than a US passport, so this request is really pushing the edge of insanity.

    Of Course, seeing as Dr. Fukino has sworn as to Hawaii having Obama’s birth records, and that he was born in Hawaii, so you are really missing the big picture.

  516. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:26 am  (Quote)

    The main problem with Obama’s COLB is DATE FILED. It should have been August 11, 1961 for official story (Kapiolani birth) to make sense. Then the registration number would not be a big deal and it would be in line with the practice of registrations sent to the main office on weekly basis (according to Okubo).

  517. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:56 am  (Quote)

    It was filed when it was filed. The only one who sees anything strange is you.

    Or are you saying the most vast and deep conspiracy in all of history screwed up on such a minor detail, and it will now unravel?

    Seriously, have you ever interacted with the real world? Have you ever filled out or handled paperwork? You think this actually means something nefarious? Why does my cable company misspell my middle name on my bill? Does this mean I don’t owe them money?
    When you become an adult and leave your parents, you will see that stuff like this happens in the real world inhabited by grown-ups all the time. It doesn’t always mean anything. It certainly won’t undo a Presidential election.

  518. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 5:00 am  (Quote)

    Another story:

    Hawaii Gov. Says Proof of Obama’s Birth Certificate Exists but Hasn’t Produced the Document
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-birth-hawaii-gov-proof-presidents-birth-certificate/story?id=12721552&page=1

    “Officials in Hawaii say they have located President Obama’s birth certificate indicating that he was born in the state, but have yet to produce the document at the heart of a long-simmering conspiracy theory.”

  519. Scientist says:
    January 23, 2011 at 5:35 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Seriously, have you ever interacted with the real world? Have you ever filled out or handled paperwork? You think this actually means something nefarious? Why does my cable company misspell my middle name on my bill? Does this mean I don’t owe them money?

    The first passport I ever got had my year of birth incorrect. They read the 7 I wrote in the application as a 1 and made me 6 years older than I actually was. This, despite the fact that my birth certificate, provided with the appplication, had the correct date clearly typed on it. I had to send it back and get a new one, which fortunately arrived in time for my trip. To this day, I always write 7 in the European fashion, with a line through it, to avoid confusion.

    As they say, excrement occurs. To spend hours poring over such discrepancies and attaching any importance to them is a sign that you need to get a job and move out of your parents basement.

  520. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 5:54 am  (Quote)

    No birther has yet explained what the supposed significance of the numbers being slightly out of order between Obama’s and the Nordyke certificates. What does this prove? What is their theory?

    I guess they will jump on anything if they think it miht get the scary black man out of the White House…

  521. Majority Will says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:50 am  (Quote)

    Birthers reek of desperation and fear . . . and bad hygiene.

  522. Sef says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:28 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: No birther has yet explained what the supposed significance of the numbers being slightly out of order between Obama’s and the Nordyke certificates. What does this prove? What is their theory?I guess they will jump on anything if they think it miht get the scary black man out of the White House…

    They also have not proven which numbers are out of order. It’s equally likely that the Nordyke #s are the ones out of sequence. Without more numbers surrounding these we just don’t know. We also have absolutely no knowledge as to how frequently these sequence anomalies occurred in 1961.

  523. Joey says:
    January 23, 2011 at 12:11 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: ======================================================================1. Okubo’s final statement to Politifact contradicts her previous statement that it was a valid Hawaii COLB. Since it is impossible to tell whether an image posted on the web is a genuine or a fake you cannot use her first statement as a given fact. I just called you on that one. I find it fascinating that she would not confirm specifics related to that COLB – the refusal to confirm the June 6, 2007 as issuing date. The only rational explanation is that COLB presented on the FactCheck is a fake – not issued by the DoH. Nobody wants to confirm trivial things that are supposed to be in public domain. 2. Okubo mentioned that local birth registrars sent registrations to the DoH central office on a weekly basis. Therefore, Obama’s registration should have been sent and processed by the DoH on August 11, 1961, together with Nordyke registrations. The real problem is the Date Filed on Obama’s certificate – it is not possible that Obama’s certificate originated at Kapiolani and was processed three days earlier than Nordyke certificates. If Obama’s certificate had a Date Filed August 11, 1961 your explanation about slight mismatch in registration numbers could be plausible.3. Politicians never lie. They never had an opinion that proved to be wrong later on, right? In addition, the State of Hawaii did not say that Obama was born there until after the resolution was issued by the US Congress in 2009.

    There is no contradiction at all. Just because you are too ignorant to be able to read for comprehension and distinquish between her initial comments on the actual COLB that was emailed to her by the St. Petersburg Times’ Politifact unit and the scanned image of a COLB that is on the Obama “FighttheSmears” website doesn’t mean that there is any contradiction.

    Barack Hussein Obama II announced his candidacy for the presidency on February 10, 2007. We will shortly be at FOUR YEARS since that date. And in those four years, no grand jury investigation, with the subpoena power to get ahold of his birth records, college transcripts, elementary school records, law school records, Occidental College applications and all the other personal data that birthers want has been convened. THERE ARE NO ISSUES of Article III standing to get in the way of a grand jury investigation. All that is needed is a single prosecuting attorney in the entire nation has enough doubt to launch an investigation. How strange.
    Additionally, ANY congressional committee can have its Chairperson issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s records, including his birth certificate. At least for the first three weeks of Republican control of the House, no congressional committee has considered Obama’s eligibility to be urgent enough to convene a hearing or to subpoena any records.

  524. Rickey says:
    January 23, 2011 at 1:02 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    ====================================================================
    Let me translate for you what Abercrombie said: The original birth certificate on file is something “written down”.

    Another lie. Read the original article. Abercrombie never mentions the birth certificate.

  525. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 1:49 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: The main problem with Obama’s COLB is DATE FILED. It should have been August 11, 1961 for official story (Kapiolani birth) to make sense. Then the registration number would not be a big deal and it would be in line with the practice of registrations sent to the main office on weekly basis (according to Okubo).

    The main problem for you is that President Obama will be running for reelection in 2012 and he will be on the ballots of all 50 states. Hopefully, you people will get what you deserve and he will be reelected so that it can drive you loony for another 4 years.

  526. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:03 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    Another lie. Read the original article. Abercrombie never mentions the birth certificate.

    Abercrombie wasn’t looking for a birth certificate since he already knows it is there. Abercrombie clearly said that he was looking for “something else” he could release within the confines of the law. He already knows what he can and cannot release, and by law he cannot release any kind of birth certificate or anything like that. He probably found that “something else” that was there in the records in addition to the standard birth information/certificate and found that that “something else” was written down. The attorney general told him that even that “something else” that was written down in the record could not be legally released to the public

    You are correct, Rickey, Abercrombie never mentioned the birth certificate, and he never said that he was going to release a birth certificate from the time he began speaking about it, yet birthers automatically put words in his mouth to make it come out the way they want it. He clearly said that he was looking for something he could release and never said what that something would or could be other than to say that its release must be in accordance with state law, which categorically excludes a birth certificate since he cannot do that by state law.

  527. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:10 pm  (Quote)

    Moreover, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that many of Hawaii’s records from 1961, a couple of years after it became a state in 1959, were written rather than typed or done on a computer.

  528. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:16 pm  (Quote)

    Oh boy, another “traitor”

    Cantor: I believe Obama is a US citizen

    WASHINGTON – The new Republican House majority leader says he doesn’t think questions about President Barack Obama’s citizenship should play a role in the discussion of policy matters.

    House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says he believes Obama is a citizen and that most Americans are beyond that question.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110123/ap_on_re_us/us_cantor_birthers

  529. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 2:55 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Oh boy, another “traitor”Cantor: I believe Obama is a US citizenWASHINGTON – The new Republican House majority leader says he doesn’t think questions about President Barack Obama’s citizenship should play a role in the discussion of policy matters.House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says he believes Obama is a citizen and that most Americans are beyond that question.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110123/ap_on_re_us/us_cantor_birthers

    Yes, another nail in the birther’s coffin.

    What these birther fools don’t seem to realize is that the House GOP, now having their majority, no longer needs to pander to them. At least the serious members of the House GOP leadership understand that they need to try to appear like they can govern now that they are no longer just a squawking minority opposition.

    Therefore, now more than ever, the stink of birtherism is something they need to distance themselves from, in order to not sink any chances they think they have in 2012.

    As naive as Abercrombie’s announcement was in December, the net result of putting the issue back into media discussion is turning out to only hurt the birthers and marginalize them further…exactly the opposite of their delusional little hopes.

    So first Boehner and now Cantor – with stronger language of saying “no” to the birthers than the GOP’s “wink & nod” games during the 2010 campaigning. LOL!

    Some key excerpts from the article, well worth repeating:

    House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says he believes Obama is a citizen and that most Americans are beyond that question.

    “I don’t think it’s an issue that we need to address at all. . It is not an issue that even needs to be on the policy-making table right now whatsoever,” he said
    …
    Cantor says he believes that Obama wants what’s best for the country and that there are honest disagreements over how to achieve that.
    …
    Hawaii’s health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama’s original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama’s birth at Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu.

    Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed on Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    Hawaii’s Democratic governor, Neil Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, began an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said he was bothered by people who questioned Obama’s birthplace for political reasons.

    But Abercrombie’s office said Friday that he was ending his quest because it’s against state law to release private documents. The state’s attorney general told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent.

    The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president’s birth date, city and name, along with his parents’ names and races.

  530. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 3:55 pm  (Quote)

    G: First of all, it is HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act), which went into effect back in 1996.

    OK, let me set this out more clearly.

    HIPAA does not apply to vital records. In fact, birth record are public in several states, including California. The reason the State of Hawaii does not provide a certified copy of President Obama’s birth certificate to the public is because of a state law that prohibits it. There is no discretion involved.

    HIPAA, however, does apply to hospitals, and this is the reason that the Kapi’olani hospital does not release information about President Obama (assuming that they still have any such records).

    The important thing for everyone to understand is that state officials and hospital officials must follow the law.

    HIPAA Privacy Rule

  531. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:02 pm  (Quote)

    Hola from Guanacaste Province in Costa Rica. Warm and sunny. I saw a troop of white faced capuchin monkeys this morning.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanacaste_Province
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capuchin_monkey

  532. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:10 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hola from Guanacaste Province in Costa Rica. Warm and sunny. I saw a troop of white faced capuchin monkeys this morning.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanacaste_Province
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capuchin_monkey

    Glad you’re enjoying your trip & have some pleasant warm weather & interesting fauna!

    Freezing cold & snowy up here in OH. Wish I could be where you are. 😉

  533. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:12 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: The main problem with Obama’s COLB is DATE FILED. It should have been August 11, 1961 for official story (Kapiolani birth) to make sense. Then the registration number would not be a big deal and it would be in line with the practice of registrations sent to the main office on weekly basis (according to Okubo).

    You have it backwards. It is the Nordyke certificate that is out of order. Why was it delayed so long?

  534. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:18 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Let me type it slow: Unattended Late Birth Registration

    Scenario perfectly fits available information and explains observed behavior from main players in this story.

    Barack Obama’s birth was registered on August 8, 1961, which by definition is not a “delayed registration.” Further delayed registrations, by law, in Hawaii must be clearly marked so.

    So when you say “perfectly fits” I cannot really understand what you mean unless you are a liar or insane.

  535. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:34 pm  (Quote)

    nc1.Politicians never lie.

    Some politician might lie sometime. Birthers, however, are a movement dedicated to promoting a lie. They lie as naturally as water flows downhill.

    Since Barack Obama was born in the United States, everything a birther says is either a lie or a misrepresentation in support of a lie. Lying is the central fact of the birthers.

    Any time a birther speaks, the reasonable presumption is that they are lying. There are exceptions, and this is why one must listen carefully; however, one should not expect that a birther says something worth considering.

  536. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And Adams said that someone told him there wasn’t. He never said who that person was.

    The Adams story fizzled when he was unable/unwilling to provide any supporting details and after it was learned that neither he nor anyone in his office had access to birth records.

  537. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 23, 2011 at 4:49 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Dr. Conspiracy told you guys that the registration number was assigned by the central DoH office in Honolulu and according to Okubo local registrars sent registrations on weekly basis to Honolulu office.

    I said no such thing. Registration numbers were assigned at the central office (according to Okubo), but there is no evidence that registrations in Honolulu were batched weekly, and I have never said that they were.

    Birthers lie like water runs down hill.

  538. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 6:59 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: Barack Obama’s birth was registered on August 8, 1961, which by definition is not a “delayed registration.” Further delayed registrations, by law, in Hawaii must be clearly marked so.So when you say “perfectly fits” I cannot really understand what you mean unless you are a liar or insane.

    If his birth was indeed registered on August 8, 1961 than the registration number shown on COLB is a forgery. You are aware what Okubo said about weekly submissions of birth certificates.

    Pick your poison: Either the Date Filed or the Registration number is wrong on that document. My bet is on the registration number.

    Okubo mentioned to butterdezillion that she would not comment about COLB even if it was a forgery. I am sure that you have read that exchange.

    By the way, I was wondering about your FOIA request to obtain the passport records for Obama’s mother. They still working on the response, correct?

    I see you in the same light as Abercrombie. An ardent Obama supporter trying to resolve the eligibility issue in Obama’s favor. The only problem is – there is no evidence that Obama was born in the USA – just a “written down” thing which is most likely an unatended birth registration by a relative.

  539. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:05 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Adams story fizzled when he was unable/unwilling to provide any supporting details and after it was learned that neither he nor anyone in his office had access to birth records.

    Abercrombie’s statement confirm what Adams said – there is no long form (hospital generated) birth certificate in the archive.

  540. James M says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:18 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: If his birth was indeed registered on August 8, 1961 than the registration number shown on COLB is a forgery.

    If you are prepared with evidence to accuse someone of the crime of *forgery*, then I assume you would have no problem making that accusation under oath, in the form of a sworn deposition where you personally accuse some individual of the crime, and where you personally explain how you know that individual committed that crime.

    Short of that, you don’t get to say it is “forgery.”

  541. Joey says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:21 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Abercrombie’s statement confirm what Adams said – there is no long form (hospital generated) birth certificate in the archive.

    But then Tim Adams, like NC1 suffers from Obama Derangement Syndrome.
    Washington Post
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/06/there_are_some_people_who.html:

    I checked with Glen Takahashi, the administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk’s office, and while he verified that Adams worked there, he explained – gently making it clear he did not want to “call anyone a liar” — that Adams never actually had access to information about Barack Obama.

    “Our office does not have access to birth records,” Takahashi said. “That’s handled by the state of Hawaii Department of Health. Where he’s getting that, I don’t know. Put it this way: Barack Obama was not trying to register to vote in Hawaii. He is, as far as I know, not a registered voter here. So no one was looking that up.”

    Takahashi explained that the “senior elections clerk” job that Adams held was a low-level data entry position dealing with voter registration and absentee ballots — Adams was one of dozens of temporary employees who staffed the pre-election rush. And he contradicted Adams’s claims that Obama’s lack of a birth certificate was an “open secret” or that voters contacted the office to ask about it.

    “To be honest, I fielded no questions about that,” Takahashi said. “Why would anyone ask us? We don’t have those records.”

    NC1 helps me to understand why even a staunch conservative like Glenn Beck has said: “Birthers are the dumbest thing I ever heard.”

  542. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:21 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    blah…blah…blah…

    same old debunked nonsense as usual

    Give it up, nc1. You are as hopelessly mentally deranged as Ms. Tickly & butterdezillion.

    Tilting at trivial windmills that amount to nothing. You’ve said nothing new that you haven’t tried to pull here time and time again. All you do is completely ignore every answer and bit of evidence that trashes your silly theories and renders them meaningless.

    HI has repeatedly confirmed that they have his birth certificate on file. All real evidence matches up and points to the same conclusion – born in Honolulu, HI and therefore NBC.

    You’re worthless nitpicking and twisting of trivia doesn’t change any of that. He’s POTUS and the state of HI backs that up as does EVERY federal government official.

    Your cause is beyond lost and has been for well over two years. Come back when you have something new to say. Otherwise, tell it to the wind.

  543. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:25 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Abercrombie’s statement confirm what Adams said – there is no long form (hospital generated) birth certificate in the archive.

    FAIL!

    Just more proof that you lack the basic reading comprehension skills of an elementary school child.

    Ambercromie’s statement said nothing of the sort. There is no mention of a long form by Abercrombie whatsoever at all in any of the ACTUAL reporting.

    Now here’s some actual reporting on the issue that you can’t seem to face:

    G: Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed on Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    …
    But Abercrombie’s office said Friday that he was ending his quest because it’s against state law to release private documents. The state’s attorney general told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent.

  544. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:37 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Conspiracy: I said no such thing. Registration numbers were assigned at the central office (according to Okubo), but there is no evidence that registrations in Honolulu were batched weekly, and I have never said that they were.Birthers lie like water runs down hill.

    About a year ago you directed me to the post by butterdezillion where the registration practices by the DoH were discussed (Okubo explained the differences between the phrases “Date Filed” versus “Date Accepted”). In that context it was mentioned that registrations were sent to the central office on weekly basis.

    You have confimed the practice of numbers being assigned in the DoH office (while other Obots were spouting the prenumbered forms theory). You were quite persuasive in describing how stamping machines were used in numbering the registrations.

    This was you biggest contribution toward my understanding of the fraud committed in forging the COLB. Okubo’s words and your confimation make the discrepancy between Obama and Nordyke cerificates so obvious.

    Even if there was no such thing as weekly submissions, it would be logical that a registration processed three days earlier would be stamped with the lower registration number. Weekly submissions make the registration number plausible but in that case the Date Filed does not fit.
    Number 10641 does not fit on Obama’s COLB. Otherwise it would have been disclosed as part of the birth registration index data.

  545. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 7:44 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: This was you biggest contribution toward my understanding of the fraud committed in forging the COLB. Okubo’s words and your confimation make the discrepancy between Obama and Nordyke cerificates so obvious.

    Obvious only to the voices in your head and the fictional world you pretend to live in. Wake up, fool. There is no fraud. The only thing fake here is you and your dribble. Go preach on a street corner. Nobody takes you seriously here and most of us honestly believe that you are mentally ill and incapable of normal human reasoning.

  546. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:03 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Even if there was no such thing as weekly submissions, it would be logical that a registration processed three days earlier would be stamped with the lower registration number. Weekly submissions make the registration number plausible but in that case the Date Filed does not fit.

    So why do you think the Nordyke’s birth certificate was filed out of order?

  547. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:07 pm  (Quote)

    James M: If you are prepared with evidence to accuse someone of the crime of *forgery*, then I assume you would have no problem making that accusation under oath, in the form of a sworn deposition where you personally accuse some individual of the crime, and where you personally explain how you know that individual committed that crime.Short of that, you don’t get to say it is “forgery.”

    If Okubo told the truth – the COLB is a forgery.

    Had the number belonged to Obama they would have released it with the rest of the index data. Instead they refused to release the index when the request included the registration number.

  548. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:20 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: So why do you think the Nordyke’s birth certificate was filed out of order?

    Nordyke numbers can be seen on a copy of original from 1961. It is not a computer generated printout.

    You can legitimately ask your question only AFTER Obama releases the same long form document showing the Date Filed as August 8, 1961 and registration number 10641.

    The big mouth Abercrombie could not come up with that document even though his mission was to clear up the problem that could derail Obama’s reelection campaign.

  549. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:33 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: If Okubo told the truth – the COLB is a forgery.

    You have presented nothing to back this claim up. It is utter nonsense.

    You also claim that Obama’s birth was registered out of order. I maintain that it was the Nordyke’s that was registered out of order. Prove me wrong.

  550. Scientist says:
    January 23, 2011 at 8:52 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Okubo mentioned to butterdezillion that she would not comment about COLB even if it was a forgery. I am sure that you have read that exchange.

    She would not comment because she would be obliigated, as a state official who becomes aware of a crime committed against the state, to refer the matter to the Attorney General for investigation and prosecution of the forger and those who knowingly used the forged certiificate.

  551. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:10 pm  (Quote)

    obsolete: You have presented nothing to back this claim up. It is utter nonsense.You also claim that Obama’s birth was registered out of order. I maintain that it was the Nordyke’s that was registered out of order. Prove me wrong.

    You have seen a photo copy of the original birth certificate for Nordyke twins. Until Obama comes up with the same type of document confirming the information shown on COLB any inconsistency between Obama’s and Nordyke’s data implies that COLB is a forgery.

    It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates.

    Eleonor Nordyke did not think much about letting the Honolulu Advertiser publish copies of this document. Why is Obama concerned about it – his behavior makes absolutely no sense for a person claiming birth in the Kapiolani hospital.

    As Abercrombie said, this is going to hurt Obama’s reelection chance yet he is ignoring the issue. The only explanation is that the perceived political fallout is still leser price to pay than allowing access to his birth registration document.

    There is only one explanation – the official birthplace story is a lie.

  552. nc1 says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:33 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: P>NC1 helps me to understand why even a staunch conservative like Glenn Beck has said: “Birthers are the dumbest thing I ever heard.”

    Glenn Beck also said that Soros is Obama’s puppetmaster. Do you agree with Glenn Beck?

    If birthers were so stupid as he alleges, it should be a piece of cake to demonstrate their erroneous ways: a long form birth certificate (of Nordyke type) would go a long way towards discrediting birthers.

    Beck should be very worried that government officials allowed a decorated officer be sent to jail without having the opportunity to present the evidence or cross examine witnesses who could help his defense. This is what dictatorships are all about. An individual cannot challenge the system and expect to win. Many people were sent to gulags around the world in the past – has the time arrived for USSA?

  553. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:36 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: You have seen a photo copy of the original birth certificate for Nordyke twins. Until Obama comes up with the same type of document confirming the information shown on COLB any inconsistency between Obama’s and Nordyke’s data implies that COLB is a forgery.

    It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates.

    Eleonor Nordyke did not think much about letting the Honolulu Advertiser publish copies of this document. Why is Obama concerned about it – his behavior makes absolutely no sense for a person claiming birth in the Kapiolani hospital.

    As Abercrombie said, this is going to hurt Obama’s reelection chance yet he is ignoring the issue. The only explanation is that the perceived political fallout is still leser price to pay than allowing access to his birth registration document.

    There is only one explanation – the official birthplace story is a lie.

    Boy you are a one track nut, with no understanding of logic. Your whole premise is faulty.

    ALL existing evidence backs up the COLB as legit. For well over 2 years, the state of HI has stood by it, as has every federal government official who matters. This is mostly during a time period when the HI governor and top state officials were GOP or GOP appointees.

    Your entire premise requires a conspiracy so vast, involving an endless number of people and years without a crack that it defies even being worthy of fiction. It would be utterly laughable if it wasn’t so stupid and unrealistic.

    All you can do is stumble around saying that if you don’t see additional blah, blah, blah, then there must be a forgery!

    What a lame joke you are.

    Ever heard of the Underpants Gnomes? That is what you are. Your astounding gap of logic from getting from point A to B…let alone C in your reasoning shows that you are either of extremely limited mental capacity or insane.

  554. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:40 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    You have seen a photo copy of the original birth certificate for Nordyke twins.Until Obama comes up with the same type of document confirming the information shown on COLB any inconsistency between Obama’s and Nordyke’s data implies that COLB is a forgery.It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates.
    Eleonor Nordyke did not think much about letting the Honolulu Advertiser publish copies of this document.Why is Obama concerned about it – his behavior makes absolutely no sense for a person claiming birth in the Kapiolani hospital.As Abercrombie said, this is going to hurt Obama’s reelection chance yet he is ignoring the issue. The only explanation is that the perceived political fallout is still leser price to pay than allowing access to his birth registration document.There is only one explanation – the official birthplace story is a lie.

    That is an absolute lie. It is actually much easier to forge the 1961 paper form as it lacked a lot of the security features built into the paper nowadays. The COLB is actually a lot harder to fake

  555. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:43 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Glenn Beck also said that Soros is Obama’s puppetmaster. Do you agree with Glenn Beck?

    No. Sorry, the “Soros” bogeyman nonsense is just as silly as all the NWO conspiracy claptrap.

    Beck is simply a clown and a loud mouth demagogue with delusions of grandeur and paranoia. He is merely a high paid fear/smear merchant of both questionable sanity and questionable sincerity. Anyone who takes him seriously or follows his advice is a fool.

    The point you have obviously missed is that EVEN as ridiculous and conspiracy crazed as Beck is and EVEN with as much as he hates Obama – NOT EVEN HE will touch the Birther issues.

    All of the nutcase Birther claims are even too way out on a limb and a bridge too far for crazy fearmonger Beck.

    That speaks volumes.

  556. G says:
    January 23, 2011 at 9:49 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: If birthers were so stupid as he alleges, it should be a piece of cake to demonstrate their erroneous ways: a long form birth certificate (of Nordyke type) would go a long way towards discrediting birthers.

    *waah* Sorry, just weak logic and a pitiful concern trolling attempt to make the “long form” somehow relevant.

    Which it isn’t. All that matters for NBC is confirming he was over 35 yrs & born in America. The COLB already answers that – 1961 and Honolulu, HI. The COLB takes its info from any “long form” that would exist – so sorry, it would only say the exact same thing.

    Therefore, there is nothing additional on the “long form” that would be relevant to the issue, which the COLB hasn’t already answered. End of story.

    nc1: Beck should be very worried that government officials allowed a decorated officer be sent to jail without having the opportunity to present the evidence or cross examine witnesses who could help his defense. This is what dictatorships are all about. An individual cannot challenge the system and expect to win. Many people were sent to gulags around the world in the past – has the time arrived for USSA?

    Wow. You sound just as nutty as Beck. Beck seems to worry about every shadow under his bed and nightmare monster peering out at him under his closet. Most kids grow out of such irrational fears…except for the paranoid delusional. Which seems to include both you and Beck.

    It must really suck to go through life so afraid of bogeymen around every corner. You must have difficulty sleeping at night. Glad I’m not you.

  557. Joey says:
    January 23, 2011 at 10:02 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Glenn Beck also said that Soros is Obama’s puppetmaster. Do you agree with Glenn Beck?If birthers were so stupid as he alleges, it should be a piece of cake to demonstrate their erroneous ways: a long form birth certificate (of Nordyke type) would go a long way towards discrediting birthers. Beck should be very worried that government officials allowed a decorated officer be sent to jail without having the opportunity to present the evidence or cross examine witnesses who could help his defense. This is what dictatorships are all about. An individual cannot challenge the system and expect to win. Many people were sent to gulags around the world in the past – has the time arrived for USSA?

    George Soros is one of twelve billionaires who were supporting Obama. Soros was also a contributor to John McCain’s Reform Institute. While I don’t agree with the “puppetmaster” characerization, there’s no doubting that Soros was an Obama supporter.
    Steve Forbes of Forbes Magazine did a profile on “Obama’s Billionaire Buddies.” Google it and you’ll understand why Obama gets such favorable media. The one billionaire backer of
    Barack’s that Forbes Magazine didn’t profile is Oprah Winfrey.
    Your “dictator” comment just goes to show what a brain dead fool you are. “Dictators” don’t campaign for two full years, win dozens of primary elections, get 64.5 million popular votes (the most of any candidate, EVER), accumulate 363 Electoral College votes, have their electoral college votes counted and certified by Vice President Cheney, a member of the opposition, have ZERO challenges lodged to the certification of their electoral college votes by even ONE of 535 members of Congress; be challenged in courts in practically every state in the nation on eligibility grounds and be 89 for 89 in winning those lawsuits including 12 denials at the Supreme Court. Dictators don’t allow the opposition party to sweep mid-term elections and take control of one House of Congress so that they can stifle a dictator’s agenda any time that they want.
    Lieutenant Colonel Lakin’s OWN ATTORNEY called him a misguided fool and Lakin himself said, after his conviction by 8 of his fellow officers. “I chose the wrong path.” Lakin is right where he deserves to be, contemplating his future until May.
    One of the officers who testified against Lakin at Court Martial is one of only two active duty winners of the Medal of Honor. Yes, Lakin was so dumb that he disobeyed a direct order from one of the two acknowledged combat heroes in the current American military. Not too bright, Lieutenant Colonel Lakin.

  558. obsolete says:
    January 23, 2011 at 10:25 pm  (Quote)

    nc1, why don’t you contact the FBI with your info about Obama’s forged COLB? You were able to deduce it was a forgery by parsing official statements, I am sure you can easily explain it to the FBI.
    I do not understand your claims however. But if I had proof of a forgery (as you claim you do), even if it were Obama’s (who I voted for), I would turn him in. You owe the country nothing less.

  559. Scientist says:
    January 23, 2011 at 10:28 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Beck should be very worried that government officials allowed a decorated officer be sent to jail without having the opportunity to present the evidence or cross examine witnesses who could help his defense

    A defendant does not have unlimited rights as to what evidence he may present. Rape defendants cannot call witnesses to testify to the victim’s sexual history. Bank robbery defendants cannot call witnesses to testify that the bank made a lot of sub-prime loans. Murder defendants cannot call witnesses to testify that the victim was a nasty person who deserved to die.

    And a disobedient soldier cannot call witnesses to testify about where the President was born (especially since such witnesses weren’t even present when he was born). Lakin knew this from the start and chose to disregard it. And in most dictatorships I know of, Lakin would have been shot wiithout a trial or following a 10 minute procedure at best.

  560. Daniel says:
    January 23, 2011 at 10:35 pm  (Quote)

    C’mon…. you don’t actually expect nc1 to put his money where his loud mouth is, do you?

  561. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 10:38 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    Murder defendants cannot call witnesses to testify that the victim was a nasty person who deserved to die.

    Which is exactly what Scott Roeder tried to do when he went on trial for murdering George Tiller. The judge told him, “No.”

  562. James M says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:05 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:

    If Okubo told the truth – the COLB is a forgery.

    So why are there only excuses when there should be criminal accusations?

    I am asking you to personally make your accusations under oath in the form of a sworn deposition presented to a prosecuting attorney in Hawaii.

    If you are not sure enough of your case to do that, you are not sure of your case.

  563. gorefan says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:36 pm  (Quote)

    G: It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates.

    What is the name of the doctor who signed the Nordyke sisters’ BC?

  564. gorefan says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:38 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates.

    Sorry G meant for NC1.

    What is the name of the doctor who signed the Nordyke sisters’ BC?

  565. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:40 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Abercrombie’s statement confirm what Adams said – there is no long form (hospital generated) birth certificate in the archive.

    That must be another one of your “translations.” Yes, he said there was no long form, but the reason he gave for saying this was that someone told him there wasn’t one yet never said who that someone was. He said that the “someone” who told him this got this information “in a telephone call or an email” and passed it on to him. This proves that he is not the originator of this information since if he had received either one, he would know whether it was an email or a telephone call; it’s pretty difficult to mix up the two sinc one is auditory and comes over a telephone and the other one is visual and comes on a computer.

    Now, no one knows who gave Adams this information that was received in a phone call or an email, and no one knows who placed that phone call or sent that email to the person Adams says told him about it; most definitely, Adams wasn’t privy to either one. Without knowing who told Adams about the long form and how that person knew this from the phone call or email that was received, Adams has nothing in the way of evidence about anything since he is not the source of this claim nor does he know the original source material from which this claim arose. An email from whom? A telephone call from whom? Adams never says, nor does he say who gave him this information so that that person can be questioned about what he knows about it and why he told Adams this.

    Adams at one point said he got this information from his “boss” yet never says who that is. It wasn’t his boss at the Hawaii elections department because his boss there said that even he doesn’t have access to those records, and if his supervisor didn’t have access to those records, then Adams certainly could not have. Moreover, this is what Adams says, “I had direct access to the Social Security database, the national crime computer, state driver’s license information, international passport information, basically just about anything you can imagine to get someone’s identity. I could look up what bank your home mortgage was in. ” I don’t see birth records listed there unless he forgot the most important database of all as it relates to his claim – the birth records. Moreover, Adams never said that he looked at birth records. I know his saying “anything you can imagine” is what kicks the birther delusions into high gear and of course they are going to “imagine” that he means birth records because that fits what they want to believe.

    The only thing Adams can testify truthfully about in a court of law is that he claims that President Obama does not have a long form because someone told him so. That’s it. His testimony is hearsay since the original information cannot be tracked down. A witness in a murder case cannot say in court, “I know Joe shot Fred because Pete told me so.” That’s not evidence; it’s hearsay. The witness witnessed nothing other than what someone told him, and that’s not evidence that a court will accept.

    Adams has no independent knowledge of anything other than what someone told him, and that could have been anybody on the face of the planet if it happened at all. It could have been one of his racist buddies at the Council of Conservative Citizens for all anyone knows. Unless he gives more information about his claims, it’s just another birther failure.

  566. gorefan says:
    January 23, 2011 at 11:52 pm  (Quote)

    G: The point you have obviously missed is that EVEN as ridiculous and conspiracy crazed as Beck is and EVEN with as much as he hates Obama – NOT EVEN HE will touch the Birther issues.

    I suspect the reason Beck doesn’t buy into the birther theory is he’s been told it is nonsense. Especially, the two citizenship parent stuff.

    The following quote is from Dr. John R. Vile’s, 2005, “The Constitutional Convention of 1787: a comprehensive Encyclopedia of America’s Founding, Volume 2”

    “James R. Stoner, Jr. has identified four ways in which common law influenced the U.S. Constitution. Consistent with some of the discussions at the Convention examined above, he first observes that the common law provided some of the language of the document. He specifically cites the provisions related to habeas corpus, ex post facto laws, and the provision that an individual be “natural born,” and the term ‘good behavior”. He believes that, unless otherwise stated, the presumption was that such words would continue to maintain their existing meanings.”

    And who is James R. Stoner Jr. – among other impressive things, he is a member of Beck University’s faculty. That’s right, Glen Beck has his own personal Constitutional scholar. And that scholar (PhD from Harvard) says that natural born comes from common law not Vattel.

  567. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 12:21 am  (Quote)

    Moreover, Abercrombie never said there was no long form. That’s just more made-up birther “facts” that have no basis in reality.

  568. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 12:47 am  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): That is an absolute lie. It is actually much easier to forge the 1961 paper form as it lacked a lot of the security features built into the paper nowadays. The COLB is actually a lot harder to fake

    Are you serious? The COLB is printed using a database record. Hacking into a database is much easier than fixing the paper trail. You see, there is a handwritten original index (from 1961) somewhere in the DoH archive. It is much more difficult to insert a record into a book written 50 years ago than add a record into a database and then print out a list of names claiming it is the birth registration index. There is a second book (in the Kapiolani Hospital archive) that shows the names of people born there in 1961. A forger would have to take care of that book as well. It would not be easy to accomplish it.

    We know for sure that Obama’s passport records have been breached several times. Obama named John Brennan as his top terrorism and intelligence advisor. Brennan’s company was responsible for the breach of Obama’s passport records.

    It gets even better – the government response to a lawsuit demanding public release of passport records for Obama’s mother contains a bold faced lie that records prior to 1965 were destroyed in 1980s. There is no order to destroy passport documents. Yet they would want public to believe that such destruction could have taken place without any paper trail documenting the process?

    Destroying passport records for living people – not a likely scenario.

  569. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 12:51 am  (Quote)

    And Dr. Fukino never said she saw a “long form” either. The exact quote was that she had seen President Obama’s “original birth information,” whatever that means in whatever form the state of Hawaii keeps it in.

  570. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:03 am  (Quote)

    Where do birthers get the idea that they can just make up their own facts? Abercrombie NEVER said he was looking for ALL information on Obama, nor did he say that he was looking for a long form for Obama. He said that he was going to look for something that he could release within the confines of state law. He already knows that he can’t release a long form, if that is what Hawaii has in their records, because it’s against state law to do so, so it’s obvious that a “long form” is not what he was looking for. Whatever other information he did find, if he found anything at all, is something in addition to Obama’s original information that he thought he might be able to release, but as he said, the attorney general said that it cannot be released.

  571. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:06 am  (Quote)

    G: No. Sorry, the “Soros” bogeyman nonsense is just as silly as all the NWO conspiracy claptrap.Beck is simply a clown and a loud mouth demagogue with delusions of grandeur and paranoia. He is merely a high paid fear/smear merchant of both questionable sanity and questionable sincerity. Anyone who takes him seriously or follows his advice is a fool.The point you have obviously missed is that EVEN as ridiculous and conspiracy crazed as Beck is and EVEN with as much as he hates Obama – NOT EVEN HE will touch the Birther issues. All of the nutcase Birther claims are even too way out on a limb and a bridge too far for crazy fearmonger Beck. That speaks volumes.

    You have missed the point: If you dismiss Beck as a nutcase for claiming that Soros is Obama’s puppetmaster – you should be consistent and not use Beck’s words to insult birthers.

  572. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:10 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Where do birthers get the idea that they can just make up their own facts? Abercrombie NEVER said he was looking for ALL information on Obama, nor did he say that he was looking for a long form for Obama. He said that he was going to look for something that he could release within the confines of state law. He already knows that he can’t release a long form, if that is what Hawaii has in their records, because it’s against state law to do so, so it’s obvious that a “long form” is not what he was looking for. Whatever other information he did find, if he found anything at all, is something in addition to Obama’s original information that he thought he might be able to release, but as he said, the attorney general said that it cannot be released.

    Abercrombie can confirm the birth registration index number. He can also confirm that DoH issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007 (the best proof would be a receipt for payments received from Obama campaign). There is NO need for Obama’s permission for this information to be released.

    Why is Abercrombie silent?

  573. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:15 am  (Quote)

    Which one is more credible:

    A- Tim Adams “I was told Obama doesn’t have a long-form birth certificate” claim made by the temp worker on a white supremacist radio show.

    B- Dr. Fukino, Hawaii Director of Health ““I, Dr. Fukino, have seen the original records maintained on file at the Department of Health verifying that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born American citizen.” in a sworn statement.

    Birthers inextricably believe that “A” is more credible. And then wonder why no ones takes them seriously.

  574. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:20 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Abercrombie can confirm the birth registration index number. He can also confirm that DoH issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007 (the best proof would be a receipt for payments received from Obama campaign). There is NO need for Obama’s permission for this information to be released.

    Why is Abercrombie silent?

    Who has asked Abercrombie for these particular items?

    And why do you need a confirmation of a confirmation? Hawaii has already stated that Obama posted his COLB online, unless you have evidence that it was not the same COLB, you have nothing and no official will indulge your insane obsession.

  575. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:22 am  (Quote)

    Plus if Obama posted the receipt for his COLB, you would claim it was a forgery and want Hawaii to confirm the receipt, thus continuing your never-ending game of moving the goalposts while screaming for confirmations of confirmations of confirmations…

  576. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:31 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And Dr. Fukino never said she saw a “long form” either. The exact quote was that she had seen President Obama’s “original birth information,” whatever that means in whatever form the state of Hawaii keeps it in.

    For the past two years I have been telling Obama supporters that Fukino’s language was purposefully misleading – majority of people assumed that she was talking about the long form birth certificate that originated at Kapiolani. If that were true there would be no need for the “written thing” mentioned by Abercrombie.

    I have been telling you that Fukino saw an unattended birth registration by a relative.

  577. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:40 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Plus if Obama posted the receipt for his COLB, you would claim it was a forgery and want Hawaii to confirm the receipt, thus continuing your never-ending game of moving the goalposts while screaming for confirmations of confirmations of confirmations…

    The confirmation for issuing the COLB should come from the Hawaii DoH, not the Obama campaign. The DoH has been asked to produce this record long time ago.

  578. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:54 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Which one is more credible:A- Tim Adams “I was told Obama doesn’t have a long-form birth certificate” claim made by the temp worker on a white supremacist radio show.B- Dr. Fukino, Hawaii Director of Health ““I, Dr. Fukino, have seen the original records maintained on file at the Department of Health verifying that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born American citizen.” in a sworn statement.Birthers inextricably believe that “A” is more credible. And then wonder why no ones takes them seriously.

    If Dr. Fukino told the truth – why is DoH refusing to confirm that the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    What happened to the “Bush lied – people died” crowd? Are you willing to take words of elected officials for granted even in case where there is a great deal of suspicion that a fraud has been committed and it should be trivial to find out what the truth is?

    There is no need to invade a foreign country to find out whether Fukino’s statements were true or not. It would have been easier to find the WMDs in Iraq than the long form birth certificate in the DoH archive.

  579. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:16 am  (Quote)

    nc1: If Dr. Fukino told the truth – why is DoH refusing to confirm that the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    Have you asked them? Has anyone asked them? You keep saying they refuse to answer, well, who has actually asked them? Why don’t you give them a call tomorrow?

    This is a separate issue, of course, because I see no reason for them to answer. Afterall, they confirmed that Obama posted his actual COLB online, and that they have his original birth records. No one rational would need more confirmations upon confirmations.

    A better parallel would be made to Clinton rather than Bush. When Clinton sent missiles to kill Bin Ladin, Republicans were busy accusing him of doing it to distract from their made-up scandal of Monicagate. The Republicans who did that have American blood on their hands. I hope this President isn’t distracted by made-up scandals.

  580. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:31 am  (Quote)

    nc1: You have missed the point: If you dismiss Beck as a nutcase for claiming that Soros is Obama’s puppetmaster – you should be consistent and not use Beck’s words to insult birthers.

    No, you are the one who fails to get the point. There are degrees of crazy, as there are degrees of just about everything. Beck is certainly a crazy nut.

    However, Birtherism is a step too far over the crazy ledge for even him.

    Maybe that is your problem. You’re pea-brain can’t handle anything other than binary black & white options. No wonder why you constantly fail so badly and can’t understand the world around you.

  581. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:34 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Why is Abercrombie silent?

    Boy, you are one of the densest people I’ve ever come across.

    What part of this don’t you understand?

    But Abercrombie’s office said Friday that he was ending his quest because it’s against state law to release private documents. The state’s attorney general told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent.

    Abercrombie NEVER promised to do anything more than inquire into what he can do. He got his answer. See above. End of story.

  582. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:39 am  (Quote)

    nc1: I have been telling you that Fukino saw an unattended birth registration by a relative.

    You can tell us that unicorns live in your back yard and fart rainbows for all you want.

    The point is it doesn’t matter what you say, because you have no credibility and everything you’ve said is shoddy and kooky. We think you are a certifiable nut. We don’t believe a word you’ve said, because none of your nonsense holds up or matters.

    Why do you persist with wasting your time here? We don’t buy into any of your garbage and think you are an unstable and irrational idi0t.

  583. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:43 am  (Quote)

    nc1: The confirmation for issuing the COLB should come from the Hawaii DoH, not the Obama campaign. The DoH has been asked to produce this record long time ago.

    And the DOH has repeatedly confirmed that he was born there. You just refuse to accept it. You are hopeless and unable to do anything but fail.

    How come you’ve refused to answer anyone’s questions on why you don’t contact the FBI or something like that and tell them of your quack theories of forgery?

    Forgery would be a crime you know…and a crime on that level…well, if you really believe your nonsense, why aren’t you talking to the authorities and trying to convince them, instead of wasting your time coming across as a fool here.

    Either you believe your nonsense and you have the guts to do something about it, or you are just another con artist faker, knowingly making up l.i.e.s. and spreading false propaganda that not even you believe.

    Since you are afraid to address that question or take any real action… I think that answers the question of how much you buy into your own nonsense…doesn’t it?

  584. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:48 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: nc1: If Dr. Fukino told the truth – why is DoH refusing to confirm that the registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    Have you asked them? Has anyone asked them? You keep saying they refuse to answer, well, who has actually asked them? Why don’t you give them a call tomorrow?

    Exactly! nc1 somehow has all these burning issues that she thinks is some sort of Constitutional crisis or something…yet she won’t lift a finger to actually follow up on any of it or ask HI authorities herself.

    I think that speaks volumes of her seriousness and convictions.

    She can waste endless time saying the same thing over and over and over again on websites that can’t do a thing about it, but she’s unwilling and afraid to actually do anything real about it…

    She’s a really bad con artist. Or a cowardly nut. Most likely both.

  585. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:02 am  (Quote)

    Scientist: A defendant does not have unlimited rights as to what evidence he may present. Rape defendants cannot call witnesses to testify to the victim’s sexual history. Bank robbery defendants cannot call witnesses to testify that the bank made a lot of sub-prime loans. Murder defendants cannot call witnesses to testify that the victim was a nasty person who deserved to die.And a disobedient soldier cannot call witnesses to testify about where the President was born (especially since such witnesses weren’t even present when he was born). Lakin knew this from the start and chose to disregard it. And in most dictatorships I know of, Lakin would have been shot wiithout a trial or following a 10 minute procedure at best.

    Your analogies are weak and not applicable to this case. The central issue to Lakin’s decision was the fact that he did not want to follow an illegal order to deploy to a war zone. If Obama was born outside the USA, he is not a legitimate CiC and cannot order troop deployment to a war zone.

    Lakin tried to get the answer from his command but they basically ignored him.

    His biggest mistake was a belief that he lived in a country where the rule of law is respected, where it was not possible to jail someone while preventing them from presenting a defense.

    He is Obama’s regime political prisoner.

    Stop and think about Obama’;s behavior for a moment. It makes no sense that a patriotic natural born citizen CiC would allow confusion among the military officers whether their commander is eligible for office. This is not leadership.
    Asking people to risk their lives in a war while hiding your own birth certificate!?

    On top of it, would you remain silent while the person is prosecuted for doubting the legitimacy of your orders? Think about missed opportunity to show your grace and care for the military. Instead, he demonstrated a contempt for the military.

    We all know why Obama behaves this way – there is no long form birth certificate confirming the official birthplace story. There is only the “written down” thing in the DoH archive.

  586. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:07 am  (Quote)

    nc1: The central issue to Lakin’s decision was the fact that he did not want to follow an illegal order to deploy to a war zone.

    Lakin tried to get the answer from his command but they basically ignored him.

    Lakin asked and was REPEATEDLY told that his concerns were unfounded and Obama was the legit CIC and all orders were lawful. He just didn’t like the answer, so he kept pretending it wasn’t answered.

    I wonder if you and Lakin have anything in common…………..

  587. Lupin says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:09 am  (Quote)

    nc1: The central issue to Lakin’s decision was the fact that he did not want to follow an illegal order to deploy to a war zone. If Obama was born outside the USA, he is not a legitimate CiC and cannot order troop deployment to a war zone.

    That is the biggest pile of steaming horse manure I have ever read on that blog. You really know nothing about the military and the chain of command. Obama could be a smurf or a martian and that still wouldn’t make Lakin’s refusal to deploy anything but desertion or mutiny. Lakin is lucky he didn’t get slammed against a wall and summarily shot. They used to do that that in times of war, you know, and to people with excuses a lot better than Lakin’s.

  588. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:12 am  (Quote)

    Lakin’s daughter was born in Hawaii. Why didn’t he order her long-form birth certificate from Hawaii to show how it can be done?

  589. Greg says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:20 am  (Quote)

    The central issue to Lakin’s decision was the fact that he did not want to follow an illegal order to deploy to a war zone. If Obama was born outside the USA, he is not a legitimate CiC and cannot order troop deployment to a war zone.

    We don’t have to read very far to the fundamental source of your error.

    This is 100% untrue!

    Obama is President. He occupies the White House. He draws the salary. Any infirmity in his eligibility to hold the office of the President does not reach back and invalidate the orders given prior to that infirmity being discovered.

    Every thing Obama does, until he is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate has the full force of the office.

    You can search every sentence written by every judge in the history of the English language and not find a single word that suggests anything other than what I’ve just written.

    Lakin’s biggest mistake was thinking that the eligibility of the president had any bearing on the legality of his orders. It did not.

  590. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:30 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Have you asked them? Has anyone asked them? You keep saying they refuse to answer, well, who has actually asked them? Why don’t you give them a call tomorrow?This is a separate issue, of course, because I see no reason for them to answer. Afterall, they confirmed that Obama posted his actual COLB online, and that they have his original birth records. No one rational would need more confirmations upon confirmations.A better parallel would be made to Clinton rather than Bush. When Clinton sent missiles to kill Bin Ladin, Republicans were busy accusing him of doing it to distract from their made-up scandal of Monicagate. The Republicans who did that have American blood on their hands. I hope this President isn’t distracted by made-up scandals.

    They have been asked many times. They would only respond when the request for birth index did not include the registration number.

    There is no law preventing DoH to release this information.

    Okubo is on the record claiming that it was possible to purchase the 1961 birth index data for $98. When people read about it in the AP article (written by Mark Niese), they sent the money to DoH and asked for it. The money was returned and the new claim was that only a five year collection 1961-1965 could be purchased.

    Was Obama’s birth registration completed after 1961 but before 1965?

    You have to admit that this is a strange behavior from DoH officials.

  591. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:56 am  (Quote)

    nc1: They have been asked many times. They would only respond when the request for birth index did not include the registration number.

    Okubo is on the record claiming that it was possible to purchase the 1961 birth index data for $98. When people read about it in the AP article (written by Mark Niese), they sent the money to DoH and asked for it. The money was returned and the new claim was that only a five year collection 1961-1965 could be purchased.

    Who asked for it? Names? Links?

  592. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:56 am  (Quote)

    Lupin: That is the biggest pile of steaming horse manure I have ever read on that blog. You really know nothing about the military and the chain of command. Obama could be a smurf or a martian and that still wouldn’t make Lakin’s refusal to deploy anything but desertion or mutiny. Lakin is lucky he didn’t get slammed against a wall and summarily shot. They used to do that that in times of war, you know, and to people with excuses a lot better than Lakin’s.

    How can an illegal CiC issue a lawful order to deploy troops to a war zone – it is impossible. Lakin was acting in good conscience following his oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies: foreign and DOMESTIC. Officer’s oath calls for the protection of Constitution first and following the CIC orders second.

    We can only pretend that his court martial was anything but a Kangaroo court. He is Obama’s political prisoner. He was sent to jail without proof that his belief about not following the illegitimate order was wrong. He was not allowed to examine evidence that could have exonerated him.

  593. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:59 am  (Quote)

    nc1: How can an illegal CiC issue a lawful order to deploy troops to a war zone – it is impossible.

    There is your answer.

  594. The Magic M says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:27 am  (Quote)

    > Lakin was acting in good conscience following his oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies: foreign and DOMESTIC.

    So you’re basically saying every soldier is entitled to leave his post and disobey orders to go on his personal vendetta against anyone he personally believes to be a “domestic enemy of the Constitution”?
    That is not how the US military works, however that is pretty much how the enemies of the US would like the US military to work. “American soldiers, leave your posts and fight your own government, comrades!” Sounds like straight out of the cold war communist propaganda arsenal to me. Or like the birthers today.

  595. The Magic M says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:37 am  (Quote)

    > It makes no sense that a patriotic natural born citizen CiC would allow confusion among the military officers whether their commander is eligible for office.

    Actually, there seems to be little “confusion”, or don’t you think Lakin would have had more support than a handful of retired (!) military personnel?`

    A handful of cranks does not create “confusion”.

    Let me give you another example: I’m working in a leadership position in a big company. Everybody knows I’m the boss of department A, my boss has addressed me as such, I am carrying out all duties involved in said position etc.
    Now do I have to prove to a handful of interns who doubt that I am really the boss of department A “beyond the shadow of a doubt” that I’m not an imposter? Do I have to show them my work contract, my promotion papers, my salary records, my HR protocols, my university diploma etc., all just because a couple of insignificant people being “confused” whether I’m legally the boss of department A?
    You have to be pretty delusional to say “well, why don’t you just show them what they want to see? It’s cheap and it will clean up all confusion once and for all”.

  596. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:58 am  (Quote)

    Greg: We don’t have to read very far to the fundamental source of your error. This is 100% untrue! Obama is President. He occupies the White House. He draws the salary. Any infirmity in his eligibility to hold the office of the President does not reach back and invalidate the orders given prior to that infirmity being discovered. Every thing Obama does, until he is impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate has the full force of the office. You can search every sentence written by every judge in the history of the English language and not find a single word that suggests anything other than what I’ve just written. Lakin’s biggest mistake was thinking that the eligibility of the president had any bearing on the legality of his orders. It did not.

    I have no doubt that anything goes in a Kangaroo Court system.

    Retired military officers cannot challenge Obama in civilian courts – wrong venue.
    Active military officers cannot challenge his eligibility either – it is a political thing and only Congress can deal with it. Congress members initially used an excuse that they could not interfere with active court cases.

    Ordinary citizens/voters have no standing as is the case with candidates whose name was not on ballots in all 50 states, the other major party candidate was not eligible for the office either so no hope that he would challenge Obama.

    The case was twittered enough so judge is free to dismiss the case…

    Round and round we go…

    Defense attorney admits ambushing his client with strategy that was not discussed before and publicly says, 10 days before the trial, that his client was guilty and that there is no defense. And this guy is considered an expert in military law. Kangaroo Court.

    This country is in bigger trouble than I thought if the military and civilain leadership share your opinion.

  597. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:15 am  (Quote)

    Kangaroo Court.

    That is what it would have been if a soldier can drag the President into court and look through his personal records on a hunch.

    nc1: This country is in bigger trouble than I thought if the military and civilain leadership share your opinion.

    As usual, the opposite of what you say is true. And do you see ANY leaders in government or the military who doubt Obama is the legit President and CIC? Those close to power know how the real world works.
    Once the electoral college elected him, and Congress certified the vote, and he was sworn in- he became President. Neither you or a misguided Army doctor can usurp those powers (granted to Congress & the electoral college) as spelled out in the constitution.

    Simply put- where in the constitution does it give an army doctor the right verify the President is eligible?

    nc1: Congress members initially used an excuse that they could not interfere with active court cases.

    I call BS.
    ONLY Congress has the power to remove a sitting President, and if Congress wanted to investigate Obama, they could subpoena him & his birth records. The fact is, NO ONE in Congress buys the birther crap, not even the new Tea Party members. It is going nowhere for a reason. Congress knows more about this than you, and they have already concluded Obama is eligible.

  598. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:22 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M: > It makes no sense that a patriotic natural born citizen CiC would allow confusion among the military officers whether their commander is eligible for office. Actually, there seems to be little “confusion”, or don’t you think Lakin would have had more support than a handful of retired (!) military personnel?`A handful of cranks does not create “confusion”.Let me give you another example: I’m working in a leadership position in a big company. Everybody knows I’m the boss of department A, my boss has addressed me as such, I am carrying out all duties involved in said position etc.Now do I have to prove to a handful of interns who doubt that I am really the boss of department A “beyond the shadow of a doubt” that I’m not an imposter? Do I have to show them my work contract, my promotion papers, my salary records, my HR protocols, my university diploma etc., all just because a couple of insignificant people being “confused” whether I’m legally the boss of department A?You have to be pretty delusional to say “well, why don’t you just show them what they want to see? It’s cheap and it will clean up all confusion once and for all”.

    The reason while retired officers are more likely to speak freely is obvious – they are not worried about their pentions being taken away by a kangaroo court.

    The handful of retired military personnel includes few generals. There is no doubt that Lakin is not the only active officer who had doubts about Obama’s eligibility. This is a danger that military leadership should be aware off. If push came to shove would all of them follow Obama’s orders in a hypothetical scenario of using nuclear weapons.

    Your analogy is faulty – as a business leader you are not sending people to a war. If people refused to follow your order you can only fire them – not send them to a kangaroo court that will sentence them to jail without giving them a chance to defend their case.

    Better business analogy would be the following question: Could you be hired by a big company if you pointed out to an image posted on the web as documentation supporting your claim that you meet job eligibility requirements.

  599. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:39 am  (Quote)

    nc1: They have been asked many times. They would only respond when the request for birth index did not include the registration number.

    There is no law preventing DoH to release this information.

    Okubo is on the record claiming that it was possible to purchase the 1961 birth index data for $98. When people read about it in the AP article (written by Mark Niese), they sent the money to DoH and asked for it. The money was returned and the new claim was that only a five year collection 1961-1965 could be purchased.

    I am very serious when I ask you for links to these claims- If true, I want to read about them. I fear, however, that these are nothing more than figments of Miss Tickly & Butterdezillion’s fetid imaginations.

  600. nc1 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:43 am  (Quote)

    The Magic M: > Lakin was acting in good conscience following his oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies: foreign and DOMESTIC.So you’re basically saying every soldier is entitled to leave his post and disobey orders to go on his personal vendetta against anyone he personally believes to be a “domestic enemy of the Constitution”?That is not how the US military works, however that is pretty much how the enemies of the US would like the US military to work. “American soldiers, leave your posts and fight your own government, comrades!” Sounds like straight out of the cold war communist propaganda arsenal to me. Or like the birthers today.

    We are not talking about enlisted soldiers but a high ranking officer. If you are going to prosecute a high ranking officer you should not prevent this person from putting up a defense that explains reasons for his actions.

    Officers have a duty to protect the Constitution first. This is what Lakin did and got rewarded with a jail sentence from a kangaroo court.

    The time will come when those involved in the case will be ashamed of their actions.

  601. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:57 am  (Quote)

    Lakin had a concern. He asked for clarification. He didn’t like the answer, and he went even higher up the chain of command. He was told, in no uncertain terms, that Obama was the legit President and CIC, and that all orders were lawful. He was told that Congress had the duty to certify Presidential elections, and the Army couldn’t interfere.He was told what would happen if he disobeyed orders from his commanding officer, and told to make the movement as ordered.

    At that point, Lakin should have been content. Afterall, he had it in writing, if he was afraid that someday he may be “prosecuted for following the illegal orders of an usurper”. He was golden, he had all the cover he needed (as long as he didn’t obey any orders illegal on their face- i.e “shoot that child!”). No one could really claim that his order to get on an airplane to Kentucky was an illegal order on its face.

    Once he disobeyed that order (which was not from the President), how would seeing Obama’s records undo the fact that he didn’t get on that plane? That’s why Obama’s records weren’t allowed- they made no difference. He didn’t get on that plane. I know you understand this, even if you really, really don’t want to.

    Here’s how it would play out in court, if Obama’s records were somehow allowed.

    Situation A
    Judge: Did you get on that plane?
    Lakin: No. I wanted to see if Obama was born in Hawaii.
    Judge: Here is his birth certificate. What does it say?
    Lakin: It says Obama was born in Hawaii.
    Judge: Did you still miss that plane?
    Lakin: Yes.
    Judge: GUILTY!

    Situation B
    Judge: Did you get on that plane?
    Lakin: No. I wanted to see if Obama was born in Hawaii.
    Judge: Here is his birth certificate. What does it say?
    Lakin: It says Obama was born in Kenya.
    Judge: Did you still miss that plane?
    Lakin: Yes.
    Judge: GUILTY!

    So how would getting Obama’s records matter or be relevant? (Please don’t pretend you haven’t been told of the De Facto Officer Doctrine).

  602. obsolete says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:02 am  (Quote)

    nc1: The time will come when those involved in the case will be ashamed of their actions.

    Lakin has already expressed shame for his actions at sentencing, as he should.

    The flip side of your argument is that everyone who is doing their duty and obeying orders in the armed forces is in the wrong. You would prefer to have a complete breakdown of our national defenses because you don’t like who won the last election, and refuse to listen to the authorities who have confirmed that he is eligible.

  603. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:18 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Better business analogy would be the following question: Could you be hired by a big company if you pointed out to an image posted on the web as documentation supporting your claim that you meet job eligibility requirements

    Actually, under an at will employment system, companies are free to hire whom they like, as long as they don’t discriminate on the basis of race, gender, etc. A department manager could advertise that they are looking for someone with a Bachelor’s degree and come upon a great candidate without one and hire them anyway. If you got out of your parents’ basement and into the working world you would know that.

    As far as how they verify credentials, it would depend on what the company policies were If a company hired 42 guys without asking for papers and then for #43 (who let’s say happened to be much shorter than the others) they demanded not just papers, but all kinds of stuff no company had ever asked for, any semi-competent attorney could make a good case that they were engaging in unlawful discrimination against short people.

    The bottom line, which you continue to ignore (same root as ignorance) is that a defendant is not entitled to rasie any issue they feel like, just because they are on trial, That’s why trials have judges. The judge isn’t there just to look great in a black robe. They are there to limit both sides to legally relevant testimony. If you polled 100 judges about the Lakin case, I doubt you would find even 1 who would have allowed testimony regarding where the President was born, because it was irrelevant.

  604. Bovril says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:21 am  (Quote)

    One notices that NC1 , who supports that cowardly BF Lakin, who recanted his stance I might add as part of his sentencing fails to mention

    Lakin, who had stated he was not going to deploy, was perfectly happy to take the paid pre-deployment leave the army provides ONLY for those who ARE going to deploy

    Lakin never had any problems accepting AND giving orders whilst still saying his chain of command was illegal

    Lakin’s epiphany ONLY appeared AFTER he was informed he was going to deploy to Afghanistan, not before

    Not a single word about the poor individual who had to deploy, on short to bugger all notice, no pre-deployment leave for him, in Lakins place.

    No mention to the statement in court by his replacement that his short fuze deployment prevented his effective and timley take over in command AND training pre-prep

    No mention to the statement in court by his replacement that his short fuze deployment and inability to fully integrate with his team DIRECTLY impacted on his ability to provide effective care during a mass casualty event, 2 days after his deployment.

    Plainly Lakin and his fellow travelers hate and spit upon the brave serviceman and women of this country and prefer their insane guano to a soldiers duty to his men and nation.

    Says all that needs to be said at Birfoons

  605. Northland10 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:15 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Better business analogy would be the following question: Could you be hired by a big company if you pointed out to an image posted on the web as documentation supporting your claim that you meet job eligibility requirements.

    Oddly enough, in my current positions (yes, multiple, due to one being a church music director), my resume, application letter and much of my other paperwork was sent, by the company’s request, electronically. I think the only direct items they saw were the drivers license and Social Security Card, though, I think they may have taken the photo copied versions I provided with the I-9 (trusting folks, I suppose).

    Actually, when hiring a CEO/President for a corporation, who might see the original paperwork? It would not be the shareholders and definitely not the employees of the corporation. The only ones to receive the certified copies of anything would be Human Resources and possible the board (or their search committee). Being similar to shareholders, US voters only receive as much as the candidate feels is necessary to convince us to vote for electors pledge to him/her. The determination of eligibility is not left to the shareholders except through their singular vote (i.e. if they do not believe he is eligible, they vote no).

  606. Lupin says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:19 am  (Quote)

    nc1: How can an illegal CiC issue a lawful order to deploy troops to a war zone – it is impossible.

    More steaming horse manure by the truckload. The order was perfectly legal. Any fool would know that. Whether the President is legitimate (not “illegal”) or not is totally irrelevant.

    For a country with its own Civil War in its history (and therefore an illegitimate regime) you are remarkably and crassly ignorant about the rules that apply to the military.

  607. Lupin says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:26 am  (Quote)

    nc1: How can an illegal CiC issue a lawful order to deploy troops to a war zone – it is impossible.

    More steaming horse manure by the truckload. The order was perfectly legal. Any fool would know that. Whether the President is legitimate (not “illegal”) or not is totally irrelevant.

    For a country with its own Civil War in its history (and therefore an illegitimate regime) you are remarkably and crassly ignorant about the rules that apply to the military.

    The Magic M: That is not how the US military works, however that is pretty much how the enemies of the US would like the US military to work. “American soldiers, leave your posts and fight your own government, comrades!” Sounds like straight out of the cold war communist propaganda arsenal to me. Or like the birthers today.

    As pointed out by others before, this is not how ANY military known on Planet Earth works.

    I’ll be curious if someone could name ANY foreign military where Lakin’s reasoning would be deemed case enough to refuse to obey an order?

    NC1 is just another deluded fool and racist who refuses to accept that an African-American could legitimately be your President.

  608. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:53 am  (Quote)

    nc1: Are you serious? The COLB is printed using a database record. Hacking into a database is much easier than fixing the paper trail. You see, there is a handwritten original index (from 1961) somewhere in the DoH archive. It is much more difficult to insert a record into a book written 50 years ago than add a record into a database and then print out a list of names claiming it is the birth registration index. There is a second book (in the Kapiolani Hospital archive) that shows the names of people born there in 1961. A forger would have to take care of that book as well. It would not be easy to accomplish it.We know for sure that Obama’s passport records have been breached several times. Obama named John Brennan as his top terrorism and intelligence advisor. Brennan’s company was responsible for the breach of Obama’s passport records. It gets even better – the government response to a lawsuit demanding public release of passport records for Obama’s mother contains a bold faced lie that records prior to 1965 were destroyed in 1980s. There is no order to destroy passport documents. Yet they would want public to believe that such destruction could have taken place without any paper trail documenting the process? Destroying passport records for living people – not a likely scenario.

    Hacking is not the same as forging. Now you’re out on a limb here. Hacking a central database is easy? How many government databases have you hacked into in your life? Are you suggesting somehow that Obama hacked the database?
    Actually a forger would just have to do one page. I’m sure this is where your friend Lucas Smith would come in handy.
    You’re also accusing Brennan of somehow forging passport documents? Good lord you’re nuts. Actually the whole passport request was for applications. Applications are often destroyed after a period of time. The other explanation would be that Stanley Ann didn’t have a passport before 1965

  609. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:02 am  (Quote)

    nc1: The time will come when those involved in the case will be ashamed of their actions.

    This is unlikely. The birthers are in a permanent state of denial.

  610. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:11 am  (Quote)

    nc1: I have no doubt that anything goes in a Kangaroo Court system.

    The essential problem in your position is that everything you advocate is contrary to law. This is why all the court cases were dismissed and this is why Lakin could not resolve his constitutional delusion by disobeying orders.

    The authority of military command (under the Constitution) derives from Congress, not the President, and President Obama is the lawful commander in chief because Congress certified his election to that position. The fact that some political operatives have fooled some weak-minded persons into thinking that there are legitimate doubts about the details of the President’s birth are irrelevant under law.

    However, just as every fact and every statement is understood by birthers through their delusion, so law is understood through the same delusion. However, the delusion is not reality, and so the birthers are doomed to fail always.

  611. Black Lion says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:09 am  (Quote)

    nc1: You have seen a photo copy of the original birth certificate for Nordyke twins. Until Obama comes up with the same type of document confirming the information shown on COLB any inconsistency between Obama’s and Nordyke’s data implies that COLB is a forgery.It is much easier to forge a computer printout (COLB) than the original document with hand written singatures and dates. Eleonor Nordyke did not think much about letting the Honolulu Advertiser publish copies of this document. Why is Obama concerned about it – his behavior makes absolutely no sense for a person claiming birth in the Kapiolani hospital.As Abercrombie said, this is going to hurt Obama’s reelection chance yet he is ignoring the issue. The only explanation is that the perceived political fallout is still leser price to pay than allowing access to his birth registration document.There is only one explanation – the official birthplace story is a lie.

    The better question is why do you assume that the Nordyke twins regrestration numbers are correct? How do we know that they were not out of order? Have you seen any other BC’s issued around the same time that verify that their numbers are in sequence? You assume that their BC’s are authentic and were issued properly? But where they examined to ensure that they were not forged? Were their registration numbers verified? Have you seen the Nordyke BC’s yourself? Or are you relying on a photo or image of the document to make your statements? In other words a picture is OK for the Nordykes but not Obama. Interesting.

    So you are making assumptions without any proof? Obama is not ignoring the issue. He is ignoring a bunch of cranks that make accusations without proof. There has been no evidence presented of forgery regarding the COLB. The state of HI verified that the President was BORN in HI. That is all rational people need as proof. You have nothing other than fiction from butterdezillion and Miss Tickly. And they still can’t get anyone to believe in their wild and insane theories.

  612. ellid says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:29 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Hawaii DoH has been asked (many times) a very simple, direct question whether they issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007.Guess what – they refuse to confirm it.

    Completely wrong, NaturalizedCitizen, and you bloody well know it. Why are you continuing to lie?

  613. Greg says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:52 am  (Quote)

    This country is in bigger trouble than I thought if the military and civilain leadership share your opinion.

    Actually, you’re the one proposing an unworkable and dangerous reading of the law. You’re arguing that if, one day before a President leaves office, it is discovered he was never a natural born citizen (Bobby Jindal’s parents finally admit they adopted him from a couple still living in India) every order he gave is illegal?

    Then, what? Every soldier can be prosecuted?

    Yeah, the law doesn’t work that way, specifically so that the nation doesn’t blow up!

    You’re also suggesting that any soldier who has, what, an inkling of a doubt? A reasonable doubt? Reasonable suspicion that any one his command (up to and including the President, of course) can throw off military discipline and disobey any orders!

    Yeah, the law and the military don’t work like that, either! Soldiers don’t get to stage a coup because they believe Orly!

    Basically, you propose to rewrite US law so that they resemble the failed states of the world! Where soldiers can gin up reasons to overturn the man elected President by the most number of votes in the history of the nation.

    That way lies civil war!

  614. jamese777 says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:53 am  (Quote)

    nc1: We are not talking about enlisted soldiers but a high ranking officer. If you are going to prosecute a high ranking officer you should not prevent this person from putting up a defense that explains reasons for his actions.Officers have a duty to protect the Constitution first. This is what Lakin did and got rewarded with a jail sentence from a kangaroo court. The time will come when those involved in the case will be ashamed of their actions.

    From worldnetdaily: “FORT MEADE, Md. – Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin apologized today for forcing the Army to court-martial him over his attempt to compel President Barack Obama to prove his constitutional eligibility to serve as commander-in-chief.

    Convicted on all four charges against him, Lakin told his court-martial panel he will no longer disobey orders and would resume his military career if the Army would let him.

    “I am extremely sorry for everything that has come of this,” Lakin said in unsworn testimony during the sentencing phase of his trial. “As a military member, I was wrong.”

    If orders from the duly elected Commmander-in-Chief are good enough for General John Petraeus, Admiral Mike Mullen, the other members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all but one of whom were appointed by President George W. Bush, Secretary of Defense Bob Gates who served in the Bush administration’s cabinet, then why aren’t those orders good enough for a Lieutenant Colonel?

  615. Rickey says:
    January 24, 2011 at 12:02 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Lakin was acting in good conscience following his oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies: foreign and DOMESTIC.

    It’s obvious that you have never served in the military.

    It is not up to individual soldiers to decide who the country’s enemies are. Lakin was not a “high ranking” officer. He was a Lieutenant Colonel, which is a mid-level officer rank. Lieutenant Colonels do not make policy. Lieutenant Colonels give orders to their subordinates. Lieutenant Colonels are supposed to obey orders which are given to them by their superiors. Lakin was given orders by his superiors, and he chose to disobey those orders.

    There is no doubt that Lakin is not the only active officer who had doubts about Obama’s eligibility.

    So what? There were active duty officers who had doubts about the legitimacy of the Iraq war, and I’m sure that there are officers who have doubts about the continuing war in Afghanistan. There are officers who don’t like Democratic presidents and there are officers who don’t like Republican presidents. There are probably officers who don’t like having a black president. But all of that doesn’t matter, because they have been trained to know that they must obey orders – even orders that they disagree with – unless they are given an order which on its face requires the commission of an illegal act.

    Lakin would not and could not have committed a crime by deploying with his unit. He made his own bed.

  616. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Are you willing to take words of elected officials for granted even in case where there is a great deal of suspicion that a fraud has been committed

    That’s really the point though, right. There’s suspicion.

    Not a great deal of suspicion, as you contend, but rather a small group of fringe radical bigots who invent suspicion as it suits them in order to try to overturn democracy and abrogate the Constitution. Suspicions that fly in the face of overwhelming and substantive objective evidence, that (and here’s the difference) has been examined and accepted by unbiased parties, AND those opposed to Obama as well.

    Suspicion isn’t enough, unless it’s supported by objective evidence both that a crime has been committed, and that the person you suspect actually did it. Your “suspicions are manufactured after the fact, and are supported by no objective evidence. What you erroneously term as “evidence” is nothing tangible or objective. All you have offered as “evidence is the conclusions you have drawn, processed through your false dichotomy, and drawn from speculation. Your “shoulda, woulda, coulda” would not be permitted in a court of law, and certainly doesn’t cut it here.

    You need for Obama to be a monster, and so you manufacture suspicions and draw conclusions from speculation to support those suspicions.

    And you are annoyed because we do not need for Obama to be a monster.

    Life is hard. Dripping and moaning rarely helps.

  617. Greg says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:21 pm  (Quote)

    [quote]If you are going to prosecute a high ranking officer you should not prevent this person from putting up a defense that explains reasons for his actions.[/quote]

    He was able to explain his reasons. I think he even got into that in the sentencing. The problem is that “reasons” are more often than not, IRRELEVANT! The orders were, as a matter of law, legal regardless of Obama’s eligibility. Lakin did not appeal that finding. He agreed in his guilty plea that the orders were lawful. He was warned before he undertook his actions, that Obama’s eligibility would not impact his orders lawfulness.

    Since the crime is disobeying a lawful order and not “disobeying a lawful order except for a good faith reason” Lakin’s reason for violating the order was so much fluff.

  618. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:22 pm  (Quote)

    ellid:
    Completely wrong, NaturalizedCitizen, and you bloody well know it.Why are you continuing to lie?

    Lies are what birthers do. That and willful ignorance are what makes them birthers.

  619. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:43 pm  (Quote)

    ROFLMAO!!!

    Just had a birther send me these two videos as “proof”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUxsFBwcbs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8

    It’d be even funnier if it weren’t so sad.

  620. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:57 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel: ROFLMAO!!!Just had a birther send me these two videos as “proof”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUxsFBwcbshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8It’d be even funnier if it weren’t so sad.

    Lol birthers obviously don’t realize that the video was marked as comedy. Put what I love is the second one. “The video starts out with some content from obamasnippets.com, which, of course is contrived. And yet, there seems to be a synthetic truth about what the president says.”. The author basically says “Yes I realize that this video is clearly edited but I’m going to act like its real anyway.” There is no such thing as synthetic truth. It’s either real or not.

  621. misha says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:46 pm  (Quote)

    Black Lion: what is the link for the GretaWire discussion forum?

  622. Bovril says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:55 pm  (Quote)

    Misha,

    Gretawire is no more, shut down some time ago, an ex denizen of GretaWire opened up another site called I believe

    http://gratewire.com/

  623. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:26 pm  (Quote)

    Hey, somebody fixed this blog. It doesn’t squeak anymore.

  624. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:42 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: Misha,Gretawire is no more, shut down some time ago, an ex denizen of GretaWire opened up another site called I believehttp://gratewire.com/

    Let me caution you, Bovril, there are two conservative moderators there who will gang up on. liberals. The other moderator is the site administrator, who is a liberal. There is a two moderator rule where two out of 2 conservative moderators and 1 liberal administrator can vote to have you blocked. Because of that, the deck is stacked against liberals and those whose opinions the old gretawire conservatives don’t like, and believe me, they don’t like any liberals’ opinions. That I learned well from being on gretawire for more than 3.5 years. They won’t block you for your opinion, but they personally attack you for your opinion and when you defend yourself, they will have you blocked for defending yourself.

    The administrator is so afraid that the gretawire conservatives won’t come to his website that he allows them to abuse and bully liberals they way they had done for years on gretawire. Personally, I find that offensive and will not go there out of principle.

    I was emailing the site administrator occasionally since the site started because we have known each other for a long time at gretawire. A week ago last Thursday and Friday, I expressed my concerns to him about the situation in a couple of emails. I told him that the moderation was not balanced and that if it is not balanced, it is not fair. I asked him to tell me what he thought about this, but as of this time, he has neglected to email me back.

  625. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 4:48 pm  (Quote)

    nc1:
    For the past two years I have been telling Obama supporters that Fukino’s language was purposefully misleading – majority of people assumed that she was talking about the long form birth certificate that originated at Kapiolani. If that were true there would be no need for the “written thing” mentioned by Abercrombie.
    I have been telling you that Fukino saw an unattended birth registration by a relative.

    I never assumed that she was talking about a long form. She said “original birth information.” Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean a paper copy of a long form birth certificate. She’s referring to whatever it is the state of Hawaii keeps in the way of “original birth information. I don’t pretend to know exactly what that means, nor do I assume what it means. Whatever it is, and whatever it means, it means that Barack Obama was born there. You are the one assuming that it means a long form, but you don’t know any more than I do about what form Hawaii’s “original birth information” takes.

  626. Bovril says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:00 pm  (Quote)

    I haven’t posted there as yet….but I will….8-)

    There are a few of the truly bigotted there who are extraordinarily easy to wind up without doing much of anything.

    If the “mods” start playing silly games, they’ll see just how quickly and easy it is to get their own insane folks to tear the threads to pieces.

    They play nice, I’ll play nice, they play dirty and, well lets see.

    To repeat a post I put up on FogBow

    Birthers are cowardly, bullies and lie like rugs, real simple and those are the facts, look at ANY of their sites and I defy you to prove otherwise. Their tactics are straight out of the totalitarian mindset playbook.

    The core WILL NEVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS AND ACTIVELY WORK TO RECRUIT OTHERS, this is not a debate team, the core set truly believe that they need to attack anyone, in an possible manner to intimidate any who do not wholly cleave to their world view.

    They see accommodation, rational discussion, attempts to include etc as weaknesses to exploit and it only bolsters their certainty that they are right and “THEY” (the eponymous THEY who are at the root of all evil ,which explicitly includes all of us) are evil commie traitors.

    To quote the very same favourite Birthers Franklin quote, “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ”

    Back down to a bully for a little temporary relief and don’t be surprised when you find that that you hold dear is now hostage to the bully for your continued acquiescence.

    I was part of few who, along with Foggy and others, dug into the mire at the late and unlamented Gretawire. Foggy and the others such as BlackLion will confirm the rabid nature of the core.

    Their views will NEVER change, at the end of the day, for most of them, the President is a n*gger and they only try and cloak that word as they know it can backfire on them. We finally saw the oxygen of their self publicity cut off when the site was closed.

    These core people can only be shuttered when you get down and dirty and fight them on their level, not nice, maybe not moral but the only actual way that pays some dividends.

    They place nice, everyone goes home….They play naughty and the gloves come off.

  627. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:05 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: The handful of retired military personnel includes few generals.

    There are, literally, thousands of retired military of General/Admiral rank. The fact that there are two that have lost their minds and become birthers is consistent with the dismally small numbers of birthers in the general populace.

    Your feeble attempt at appeal to authority is as pathetic as it is fallacious.

  628. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:13 pm  (Quote)

    Bovril: I haven’t posted there as yet….but I will….8-)There are a few of the truly bigotted there who are extraordinarily easy to wind up without doing much of anything.If the “mods” start playing silly games, they’ll see just how quickly and easy it is to get their own insane folks to tear the threads to pieces.They play nice, I’ll play nice, they play dirty and, well lets see.

    They are trying to be on their best behavior because they want people to come there, but the nasty, old conservative in them comes out anyway. I saw rikker there a couple of days ago having an argument with one of the conservatives about something. As usual, the conservative started name calling and personally attacking rikker, and the moderators said nothing about it, but if you call them names and personally attack the conservatives after they attack you, the moderators will be right there jumping on you for it.

    What prompted me to leave was that I had posted a post to Squawky that wasn’t an attack or name calling, and one of them started attacking me just because they didn’t like what I said, so naturally, I attacked back. Both moderators made up lame excuses for the conservative and said they were voting to have me blocked even though I was the one who was attacked. Moreover, they didn’t like the thread I had started which basically said that the GOP and the teabags had a 9 year old girl’s blood on their hands. More than likely, that’s what started it because they didn’t like me saying that. Robin didn’t block me because he knows that they start the crap every time even though it’s always, “I didn’t do anything,” with them

    You put it well in the Fogbow post. You know what they’re like. I occasionally keep a watch on the website, and if I see them doing that kind of crap to you or any other liberal, I’ll be there to read them the riot act and buy them a nice big glass of STFUaboutit.

  629. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:34 pm  (Quote)

    When did Abercrombie meet little Obama?

  630. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:38 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When did Abercrombie meet little Obama?

    Which one? Sasha or Malia?

  631. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:44 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When did Abercrombie meet little Obama?

    Why ask when you can just make up whatever you want and put those words in his mouth? Birthers always ask the questions and then make up the answers they want to those questions, so why change now?

  632. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:46 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Which one? Sasha or Malia?

    I should have been more specific. When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?

  633. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:51 pm  (Quote)

    In fact, they really do it backwards. First, they make up the answer that they want and then fabricate the question around that answer.

  634. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:55 pm  (Quote)

    Birthers don’t ask a question and then look for an answer, they look for an answer they want and then ask the question

  635. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:03 pm  (Quote)

    I think that one’s quote of the day material, Doc.

  636. JoZeppy says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:10 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: I should have been more specific. When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?

    What does it matter? Why are you wasting time quibbling over the least persuasive and most falible evidence, human memory, when you still don’t have an answer for the COLB, which is prima facie evidence of the facts it contains?

  637. Greg says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:24 pm  (Quote)

    NdH:
    I should have been more specific. When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?

    Let’s play pretend for a second. Imagine this case goes to trial and Abercrombie gets on the stand. He’s asked to tell what he has been told about Obama’s birth. You rise and object – “Hearsay!”

    Overruled.

    Abercrombie then testifies that he was a friend of Dunham and Obama Sr. and the reputation in the community was that he was born in Hawaii.

    Objection, you shout, he’s clearly not testifying from personal experience.

    Overruled! Counselor, please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules of evidence. We’ll wait. Specifically, this paragraph:

    (19) Reputation concerning personal or family history. Reputation among members of a person’s family by blood, adoption, or marriage, or among a person’s associates, or in the community, concerning a person’s birth, adoption, marriage, divorce, death, legitimacy, relationship by blood, adoption, or marriage, ancestry, or other similar fact of personal or family history.

    Now, given how this evidence came in, how well do you think the question of when Abercrombie met Obama Jr. will be received?

  638. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:35 pm  (Quote)

    It’s kind of funny to watch people dance around a question instead of just answering the question. Isn’t it? I thought FUT was going to go into convulsions while trying to avoid the question. Then we have Greg who wants the question to be presented in court. He even goes so far as to demonstrate that it should be trusted, all the time without answering the question.

    So, Greg. When does Abercrombie say that he first met Obama II, and why do you think that should be trusted?

  639. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:39 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When did Abercrombie meet little Obama?

    That is irrelevant to Obama’s eligibility

  640. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:42 pm  (Quote)

    I see what’s going on. They have a new youtube of someone claiming to be a friend of Abercrombie’s, and in the video, he says that Abercrombie told him that President Obama has no Hawaiian birth certificate and was not born in Hawaii. He also says that he knew President Obama when he was young.

  641. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:44 pm  (Quote)

    CORRECTION:

    He also says in the video that Abercrombie told him that he knew President Obama when he was young.

  642. James M says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:45 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When does Abercrombie say that he first met Obama II, and why do you think that should be trusted?

    He has said that he met Obama the younger on different occasions, when his parents started taking him to social events.

    Why do you ask whether he should be trusted? Do you have any concrete evidence that Gov. Abercrombie has been less than trustworthy about anything?

    What relevance does Gov. Abercrombie have to this discussion?

  643. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:48 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?

    I think they got together over the Chrstmas holidays when the Obamas were in Hawaii.

    If I might offer you guys a suggestion, you’re really going about things backwards and not using simple logic. If you want to prove that Obama was born in Kenya, the answer isn’t in Hawaii. You can make a big deal over every word in an off the cuff statement and have a crisis over the # on a birth certificate or what order they were processed in, but where will it get you? The absolute best you could hope for out of the Aloha state is that the birth was registered as an out of hospital birth. And so what? About 40 or so Presidents were not born in a hospital. It doesn’t prove fraud. In fact, it doesn;t prove a damn thing.

    Guys, instead of wasting efforts on trying to prove a negative, you need to go back to the beginning. If you believe Obama was born in Kenya, the only place you will find the evidence is there. What you guys have needed since Day 1 is a record of birth from Kenya. So instead of trying to show that the records aren’t in Hawaii, why don’t you show me evidence that they are there in Kenya? Heck, even a staunch Obot would have to pay some attention to a real, verified, honest-to-goodness, Kenyan birth certificate, at least it it were presented by someone without a felony record for forgery.

    That’s my opinion as someone whose profession involves proving and disproving theories. I’ll send you my bill in the morning.

  644. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:49 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I see what’s going on. They have a new youtube of someone claiming to be a friend of Abercrombie’s, and in the video, he says that Abercrombie told him that President Obama has no Hawaiian birth certificate and was not born in Hawaii. He also says that he knew President Obama when he was young.

    Hey third hand hearsay that just happens to say exactly what you want?

    Well that’s certainly good enough for me ROFLMAO!!!

  645. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm  (Quote)

    Here’s the answer that led to the question being asked

    January 24, 2011
    Friend says Abercrombie told him, ‘There is no birth certificate!’
    Jack Cashill
    During an interview on the KQRS morning radio show on January 20, Mike Evans, a long-time friend of Hawaii governor Neil Abercrombie, shared a conversation he had with the governor the day prior. The reader is advised to judge for himself the credibility of Evans’ account, but he sounds convincing.

    Curiously too, when Evans asked Abercrombie when he first encountered the young Barack Obama, Abercrombie reportedly said, “I remember him playing in a T-Ball league,” when he was roughly five or six years old.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/friend_says_abercrombie_to_him.html

  646. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:51 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel:
    Hey third hand hearsay that just happens to say exactly what you want?Well that’s certainly good enough for me ROFLMAO!!!

    I sad “they”, not me.

  647. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:55 pm  (Quote)
  648. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:55 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I sad “they”, not me.

    I wasn’t referring to “you” as in you personally. I was referring to “you” as in “you birhters”

    I know very well you aren’t a birther. You are obviously sane.

  649. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:56 pm  (Quote)

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2662505/posts

    Listen to the video. Mike Evans did not say that Abercrombie said Obama was not born in Hawaii. But he did say a bunch of other things.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2662505/posts?q=1&amp;;page=251 See post 263 for a pictureof Evans and Abercrombie. There is also a video of the two of them (not discussing the birth certificate).

    They appear to be friends. Somebody will have to ask more questions of both the Governor and Evans.

  650. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 6:57 pm  (Quote)

    Daniel:
    I wasn’t referring to “you” as in you personally. I was referring to “you” as in “you birhters”I know very well you aren’t a birther. You are obviously sane.

    lol. Thanks, Dan.

    It’s clear to see what NdH is up to now. I knew there was a reason it asked such a dumb question. I found it on another blog as we were speaking

  651. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:00 pm  (Quote)

    When Evans spoke to Abercrombie on January 19, Abercrombie reportedly told him that he searched the relevant Hawaii hospitals using his powers as governor, and concluded, according to Evans, “There is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii, absolutely no proof at all that Obama was born in Hawaii.” After Abercrombie made such a fuss about finding the birth certificate, Evans concluded of his friend that he has “got some egg in the face.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/friend_says_abercrombie_to_him.html

  652. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:03 pm  (Quote)

    When Obama II was 5 or 6 years old, Obama Sr. wasn’t even in Hawaii. How could Abercrombie met him at a social event (around Christmas as scientist would believe)?

    Didn’t Abercrombie recently say that he met Obama II with his parents at social events. Was Abercrombie making that up?

    As for making “a big deal over every word in an off the cuff statement”; you didn’t seem to have a problem when the former Governor of Hawaii made an off the cuff statement about Obama’s birth at Kapiolani. In fact, a seach of this blog will show that you hung on to it for all it was worth.

    Who’s telling the truth? Abercrombie or Mike Evans?

  653. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:07 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Who’s telling the truth? Abercrombie or Mike Evans?

    Well, that’s obvious, isn’t it?

  654. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:09 pm  (Quote)

    I meant that Obama was just in Hawaii this past Christmas and he and Abercrombie met. And I didn’t rely on Lingle’s statement, but rather on the letter from the hospital.

    Now why don’t you find the Kenyan birth certificate? If he was born there, why can’t you produce that?

  655. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:13 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: but rather on the letter from the hospital

    What letter from the hospital?

    Don’t trip while trying to scramble. 🙂

  656. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:13 pm  (Quote)

    And of course, when Abercroimbie says that he either never said that to this clown, doesn’t even know the clown, or both, birthers will say that Abercrombie is lying. roflmao!!!

  657. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:14 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Well, that’s obvious, isn’t it?

    It sure is.

  658. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:16 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: FUTTHESHUCKUP

    Ya think so? What makes you think Evans is making up the story? Do you have any proof, or are you just going all out birther?

  659. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:17 pm  (Quote)

    NdH:
    It sure is.

    Indeed it is.

    Boehner: The state of Hawaii has said that President Obama was born there. That’s good enough for me.

  660. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:19 pm  (Quote)

    NdH:
    Ya think so? What makes you think Evans is making up the story? Do you have any proof, or are you just going all out birther?

    He made the claim, and the burden of proof is on him to prove his story, not me to disprove it. He has no proof of his nutty story.

  661. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:20 pm  (Quote)

    Governor can’t locate original birth certificate.
    COLB doesn’t indicate source for original birth report.
    SSN doesn’t make sense.
    Mathews even asking “Where’s the birth certificate?”

    Nothing to see here. ROTFLMAO 🙂

  662. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:21 pm  (Quote)

    Maybe the governor should bring his sorry, lying butt into court and make him prove it.

  663. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:24 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And of course, when Abercroimbie says that he either never said that to this clown, doesn’t even know the clown, or both, birthers will say that Abercrombie is lying. roflmao!!!

    He does appear to know him- look at my link (picture posted at FRee) as well as this interview:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsLleXvtM2o

  665. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:31 pm  (Quote)

    Fut,

    You cannot ignore the link at 7:27. Well, I guess you could…

  666. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:32 pm  (Quote)

    Yeah, like I would dirty up my computer by going to free republic. Anyone can say what something appears, but that doesn’t mean it’s so. Just knowing someone means nothing. The clown is obviously a liar and is afflicted with a bad case of Obama Derangement Syndrome. He has no proof of his story.

  667. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:34 pm  (Quote)

    It’s no different than someone going on the radio saying that Bush told him or her that he planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks. It’s utter BS regardless of what this clown’s agenda is, which obviously is not the truth

  668. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:36 pm  (Quote)

    Fut,

    LOOK at the link at 7:27- It is not from Freep.

    It is always possible that someone faked the radio spot, but it sure sounds like Mike Evans. The picture from Freep is from that link.

  669. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:37 pm  (Quote)

    I can assure you that no one in Congress, including Republicans, are going to fall for that crap, and President Obama will be running for reelection in 2012. Take it to the bank

  670. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:37 pm  (Quote)

    Does everybody hear that sound? It was the sound of any credibility FUT had going out the window.

    Here’s a YouTube video of Mike Evans interviewing Abercrombie in 2009.
    Where and when does Abercrombie say he met Obama II, and who does he say little O was with?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsLleXvtM2o

    charo posted the link a little while ago, but it crushes FUT so badly that it’s worth a second link. 🙂

  671. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:38 pm  (Quote)

    Before you continue to make a foll of yourself, listen to the link at 7:27. MIke Evans was interviewing Abercrombie, his friend, about the Inauguration.

  672. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:39 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Governor can’t locate original birth certificate.COLB doesn’t indicate source for original birth report.SSN doesn’t make sense.Mathews even asking “Where’s the birth certificate?”Nothing to see here. ROTFLMAO

    Governor never said that he couldn’t locate it. He said laws forbid release.
    COLBs don’t indicate original source. Nothing suspicious about that.
    Obama has filed taxes using his SSN for many years. His returns are on line. If you file a return with an SSN that doesn;t match your name, IRS will reject it. Don’t believe me? Try it yourself this April.
    Matthews is not an authority. He’s an opinionator.

  673. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:39 pm  (Quote)

    Yes, I purposely typed foll…

  674. gorefan says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:40 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?

    He met him before the President was born at the University of Hawaii.

    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Dec/17/ln/ln20p.html

    “During her son’s earliest years, Obama’s mother, whose full name was Stanley Ann Dunham because her father desperately had wished for a boy, attended college at the University of Hawaii. Known as Ann throughout her adult life, she kept to herself. She became estranged from her husband, Barack Obama Sr., after his departure for Harvard and rarely saw the group of friends that they had made at the University of Hawaii.

    One of those friends, Neil Abercrombie, then a graduate student in the sociology department, frequently would see young Obama around town with his grandfather Stanley, whom Obama called “Gramps.””

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-03-25/news/0703250359_1_barry-obama-sen-barack-obama-stories/3

  675. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:42 pm  (Quote)

    charo: Before you continue to make a foll of yourself,listen to the link at 7:27.MIke Evans was interviewing Abercrombie, his friend, about the Inauguration.

    The only one making a foll of themselves is you by believing every dumb birther claim to come down the pike.

  676. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:43 pm  (Quote)

    You can hear Neil Abercrombie himself on this, interviewed by Mike Evans at the link I gave above at 7:24:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsLleXvtM2o

  677. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:45 pm  (Quote)

    No one will believe this clown, except mentally ill birthers, and President Obama will be on the ballot in 2012. Any questions?

  678. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:45 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    The only one making a foll of themselves is you by believing every dumb birther claim to come down the pike.

    Still making a foll of yourself. There is absolutley NO indication that Mike Evans is a birther. You have refused to listen to the link of Mike Evans interviewing his friend, Neil Abercrombie, about the Inuaguration.

    Hang it up. It is always possible that Mike misquoted Neil, but there is no indication that it was intentional.

  679. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:46 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    Still making a foll of yourself.There is absolutley NO indication that Mike Evans is a birther. You have refused to listen to the link of Mike Evans interviewing his friend, Neil Abercrombie, about the Inuaguration.Hang it up.It is always possible that Mike misquoted Neil, but there is no indication that it was intentional.

    He’s a birther for sure, foll. He’s making the story up for whatever reason.

  680. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:47 pm  (Quote)

    MY typing is becoming more atrocious by the minute. I’ll just hang back and see if Neil A. makes some kind of statement.

    Go Steelers!

  681. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:48 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Governor never said that he couldn’t locate it. He said laws forbid release.

    Really? How about a link to prove what you are claiming? Remember, you’re looking for something that was said by Gov. Abercrombie.

  682. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:48 pm  (Quote)

    This has been going on for more than 2 and a half years. Some idiot comes out and makes a bogus statement, it hangs around for a couple of weeks, and then it disappears into the sunset. In a couple of weeks, the birthers will realize that this guy’s lie will get them nowhere

  683. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm  (Quote)

    gorefan: NdH: When did Abercrombie meet Barack H. Obama II?
    He met him before the President was born at the University of Hawaii.

    Too funny! He met Obama II before he was born? I’ll have to pass that one along.

  684. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:51 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Really? How about a link to prove what you are claiming? Remember, you’re looking for something that was said by Gov. Abercrombie.

    His spokesperson said so in an official statement. That is therefore coming from the Governor. Now you link me to where anyone with the State of Hawaii said they couldn;t find it.

    And why are you ducking Kenya? Why don’t you find a b.c. from there?

  685. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:52 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: This has been going on for more than 2 and a half years. Some idiot comes out and makes a bogus statement, it hangs around for a couple of weeks, and then it disappears into the sunset. In a couple of weeks, the birthers will realize that this guy’s lie will get them nowhere

    Do you often plug your ears, while saying LA LA LA LA LA?

    Did you watch the interview between Evans and Abercrombie?

  686. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:53 pm  (Quote)

    So… I see how this goes. nc1’s stupidity has been spanked away and they run crying and all of a sudden NdH magically appears.

    NdH: It’s kind of funny to watch people dance around a question instead of just answering the question. Isn’t it? I thought FUT was going to go into convulsions while trying to avoid the question. Then we have Greg who wants the question to be presented in court. He even goes so far as to demonstrate that it should be trusted, all the time without answering the question.

    So, Greg. When does Abercrombie say that he first met Obama II, and why do you think that should be trusted?

    Sorry, NdH.

    No convulsions here.

    Simply put, Abercrombie never gave any fixed date, so we’re fact based and not going to pull one out of our butt. He simply said when Obama was young. That leaves open a broad door to the past.

    Secondly, you might care, but I don’t. What does it matter anyways? It sure doesn’t impact the issue of his birth certificate, which ALL evidence aligns with the SAME answer – born in Honolulu, HI in 1961 and therefore NBC.

    The question should more appropriately be turned back to you. Why do birthers need to always dance around on the head of a pin?

    That you folks have to struggle to splice conversations and look for minor esoterica to nitpick speaks volumes about the weaknesses in your arguments and the hollowness of your cause.

  687. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:54 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: His spokesperson said so in an official statement. That is therefore coming from the Governor. Now you link me to where anyone with the State of Hawaii said they couldn;t find it.

    Making it up, are we? Abercrombie’s spokesperson said nothing of the sort. No one who speaks for Abercrombie said anything even close. There’s a reason you don’t provide a link to backup your claims.

  688. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:54 pm  (Quote)

    I’ll tell you what Abercrombie will say if he responds at all. At the very least, he’s going to say that the guy is lying. he may well say that he knew the guy but never told him what he says he told him. The bottom line is that Abercrombie will say it’s a lie BECAUSE IT IS.

  689. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:57 pm  (Quote)

    charo: They appear to be friends. Somebody will have to ask more questions of both the Governor and Evans.

    Or not… because who cares anyways? What difference does it make in the end? Sorry, but it just seems things are going off on lamer and lamer tangents lately and becoming less relevant to any “core” issue. Down the rabbit hole of meaningless trivia, I guess…

  690. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:57 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: It’s no different than someone going on the radio saying that Bush told him or her that he planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks. It’s utter BS regardless of what this clown’s agenda is, which obviously is not the truth

    I remember how much the right attacked Killian’s secretary and killian when it was said Bush was AWOL from the air national guard. Or even former Lt Gov Ben Barnes when he stated he gave Bush preferential treatment to get him into the Air National Guard unit over far more qualified men. They didn’t believe Barnes but now are likely to believe anyone from Adams to Evans.

  691. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:58 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Making it up, are we? Abercrombie’s spokesperson said nothing of the sort. No one who speaks for Abercrombie said anything even close. There’s a reason you don’t provide a link to backup your claims.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

  692. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 7:58 pm  (Quote)

    I’ll tell you what Abercrombie will say if he responds at all. At the very least, he’s going to say that the guy is lying. he may well say that he knew the guy but never told him what he says he told him. The bottom line is that Abercrombie will say it’s a lie BECAUSE IT IS.

    NdH:
    Do you often plug your ears, while saying LA LA LA LA LA?Did you watch the interview between Evans and Abercrombie?

    So he interviewed him, so what? What does that prove? Nothing! I’m sure that radio personalities interview a lot of people; that doesn’t mean they know them let alone confide in them

  693. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:02 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I remember how much the right attacked Killian’s secretary and killian when it was said Bush was AWOL from the air national guard.Or even former Lt Gov Ben Barnes when he stated he gave Bush preferential treatment to get him into the Air National Guard unit over far more qualified men.They didn’t believe Barnes but now are likely to believe anyone from Adams to Evans.

    And they went after Dan Rather viciously too for even insinuating that Bush was AWOL

  694. NdH says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:03 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    Scientist, Do you consider the Attorney General to be Abercrombie’s spokesperson?

  695. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:05 pm  (Quote)

    charo: Your link from 6:56 no longer links to the youtube video, but only to the freeper article. Strange. I wanted to rehear the story where Evans makes his claim because there seemed to be no context for him to launch into this story. Now it’s gone.

  696. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:06 pm  (Quote)

    That Abercrombie was interviewed by the guy or even knew the guy is NOT proof that he is not lying; it doesn’t prove that what he says is the truth. The real proof that has come out for the past 2.5 years proves that he is lying

  697. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:06 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Nothing! I’m sure that radio personalities interview a lot of people; that doesn’t mean they know them let alone confide in them

    And they always act chummy and joke like old friends… I suppose you missed the part where Mike Evans said that this was a great day for Hawaii and the country. Real birther.

  698. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    And they always act chummy and joke like old friends… I suppose you missed the part where Mike Evans said that this was a great day for Hawaii and the country.Real birther.

    People do that all the time, especially politicians because they want to appear to be a nice person to their constituents. People don’t vote for someone who comes across as mean or unfriendly when they see them in the media

  699. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:09 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Scientist, Do you consider the Attorney General to be Abercrombie’s spokesperson?

    Donalyn Dela Cruz is the Governor’s spokesperson. Now either show me where the Governor (or an official spokesperson) said he couldn’t find the birth certificate. or this discussion is terminated, fool.

    And show me

  700. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:10 pm  (Quote)

    G,

    Are you aware of the topic here? There are some side issues that you may be focused on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb–1AxmgZ8

  701. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:11 pm  (Quote)

    Just another case of birthers reading something into it that is not there. They were friendly and joked around. Big deal. It happens all the time in the media; it’s nothing new. That doesn’t mean that this guy is telling the truth

  702. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:14 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    People do that all the time, especially politicians because they want to appear to be a nice person to their constituents. People don’t vote for someone who comes across as mean or unfriendly when they see them in the media

    My dad always told me that there is a logical explanation for everything. I would expect that MIke Evans will be questioned. I find it hard to believe that he is a Tim Adams because he is a radio personality. We’ll surely hear more. I’ll wait.

  703. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:14 pm  (Quote)

    charo: MY typing is becoming more atrociousby the minute.I’ll just hang back and see if Neil A. makes some kind of statement.Go Steelers!

    I’m rooting for the Steelers too.

  704. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:15 pm  (Quote)

    charo: Why would the Governor tell a reporter something that the Attormey General just 3 days ago said is illegal to talk about? Not bad policy to talk about, but ILLEGAL. Makes no sense. Sorry.

  705. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:16 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    My dad always told me that there is a logical explanation for everything. I would expect that MIke Evans will be questioned.I find it hard to believe that he is a Tim Adams because he is a radio personality.We’ll surely hear more.I’ll wait.

    Racists are radio personalities to. That’s how Adams got on the radio.

  706. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:20 pm  (Quote)

    G:
    I’m rooting for the Steelers too.

    My dad worked for the steel mill (Clariton Works) for 44 years. It’s in the blood! We don’t live in the Pittsburgh area any more, but you will always find a fan wherever you go. We went to the Outer Banks this past fall and there is a restaurant, Barefoot Bernie’s, that is a Steeler haven. My husband and I ran into a couple in the elevator at a hotel in Virginia (while we were en route) and they told us about the restaurant/bar. Kid friendly as well as boisterous.

  707. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:22 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Racists are radio personalities to. That’s how Adams got on the radio.

    MIke Evans on the inauguration interviewing ALLEGED friend Neil A.:

    “A great day for Hawaii and a great day for our country.” (Mike Evans CLAIMS he knew Neil in Hawaii)

  708. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:26 pm  (Quote)

    charo: MIke Evans on the inauguration interviewing ALLEGED friend Neil A.:“A great day for Hawaii and a great day for our country.” (Mike Evans CLAIMS he knew Neil in Hawaii)

    To disclose this information would be illegal under state and possibly federal law. Do you truly believe Neil Abercrombie would risk going to jail to share this with a Hollywood reporter, even if they are somewhat friendly? Ever hear of Scooter Libby?

  709. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:30 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    MIke Evans on the inauguration interviewing ALLEGED friend Neil A.:“A great day for Hawaii and a great day for our country.”(Mike Evans CLAIMS he knew Neil in Hawaii)

    You sure do jump at every birther straw possible Charo even though you said you’re no longer one.

  710. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:31 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    MIke Evans on the inauguration interviewing ALLEGED friend Neil A.:“A great day for Hawaii and a great day for our country.”(Mike Evans CLAIMS he knew Neil in Hawaii)

    lmao. So what? He said in an interview that he likes Abercrombie. That doesn’t mean he really does like him. I’ve seen bitter enemies compliment each other on TV because that the civil thing to do. Moreover, he never said he liked Obama, so that must mean he hates Obama and would lie.

    This is what this is about. The birthers are dying because the new Republicans in Congress they had hoped were going to pursue this issue have told them they are not. So now the racists need something else to rally around, and when they need that, they have some clown make up a lie. They don’t want to discuss being rebuked by Congress; they want to talk about the latest lie

  711. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:40 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    To disclose this information would be illegal under state and possibly federal law.Do you truly believe Neil Abercrombie would risk going to jail to share this with a Hollywood reporter, even if they are somewhat friendly?Ever hear of Scooter Libby?

    Absolutely, they’d have to have been best friends for life, and if that were so, this guy wouldn’t have said this even if Abercrombie really did say it. With a friend like that….. The friends Abercrombie would have told this to if he really did say it would not have gone on a radio show and said that he did say it, especially without any proof that he said it.

    The proof is in the pudding; they were not good friends

  712. Rickey says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:45 pm  (Quote)

    charo: G,Are you aware of the topic here?There are some side issues that you may be focused on.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb–1AxmgZ8

    Everyone needs to listen more closely. Evans doesn’t say that he spoke to Abercrombie. He says that he spoke to Abercrombies office. It’s at 1:14.

    “Yesterday, talking to Neil’s office, Neil says…”

    Nowhere does he say that he got this directly from Abercrombie’s mouth. He spoke to somebody in Abercrombie’s office, and like so many others he was told one thing and he misinterpreted it to mean something else.

  713. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:51 pm  (Quote)

    charo: G,

    Are you aware of the topic here? There are some side issues that you may be focused on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb–1AxmgZ8

    Charo:

    1. YES I am aware of what is being discussed on here.

    Although, I will admit that tons of responses keep posting before I have a chance to see them, so I’m sometimes replying to earlier stuff on the thread…and the thread is so big that its frequently “crashing” when I try to refresh and showing me “code” instead of all the latest responses, so I lose more time trying to get a proper “refresh”.

    2. YES, I have listened to that entire tape segment from Evans.

    You did not quote me as to what you were referring to, so I am assuming your response here is to my writing of this:

    G: charo: They appear to be friends. Somebody will have to ask more questions of both the Governor and Evans.

    G:Or not… because who cares anyways? What difference does it make in the end? Sorry, but it just seems things are going off on lamer and lamer tangents lately and becoming less relevant to any “core” issue. Down the rabbit hole of meaningless trivia, I guess…

    The only thing I’ve changed is to add some bold to make things stand out clearer and try to make sure you didn’t misconstrue what I’m trying to say.

    I do NOT dispute that Evans and Abercrombie know each other, nor that Evans might consider him a long time “friend”.

    I simply don’t care what their relationship is to each other or see why it bears any further “investigating”.

    Evans can say whatever he wants and “interpret” things the way he wants to on some radio show.

    The fact of the matter is he is NOT anyone of authority on the issue and his “interpretations” don’t fully “jive” with any of the “official” reporting out there.

    In fact, they contradict the actual reports, so that leads me to question his credibility as an “authority” on the matter. Is Evans a “birther”? Possibly. During that broadcast, both he and the other voice on the show stated several common birther myths and misconceptions.

    As others have pointed out on similar types of he said/she said trivia – Evan’s statements are useless BECAUSE he has no authority on the issue and he’s doing nothing but try to put “second hand” words into Abercrombie’s mouth, that there is NO FIRSTHAND evidence to support.

    You simply couldn’t put Evan’s on a witness stand, because it is hearsay.

    You might think this is some big drama issue and we need to hear what Abercrombie says in response to Evan’s claims, but I do not.

    Simply put, people make second-hand claims about what others say or mean all the time… Evan’s statements are of no more true value on the issue than any cable commentator or bloviating talking head. It is all opinion and speculation and of no value if it is not from an authoritative source.

    If you’ve been following my posts on the entire Abercrombie issue, I’ve been consistent since the beginning – it has been nothing but an overblown story where expectations were raised beyond what was ever promised or said in the first place and it was just as likely to go nowhere further than what we’ve already known before.

    In the end, Much Ado About Nothing and a bunch of ginned up drama with nothing behind it.

  714. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:52 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    Everyone needs to listen more closely. Evans doesn’t say that he spoke to Abercrombie. He says that he spoke to Abercrombies office. It’s at 1:14.
    “Yesterday, talking to Neil’s office, Neil says…”
    Nowhere does he say that he got this directly from Abercrombie’s mouth. He spoke to somebody in Abercrombie’s office, and like so many others he was told one thing and he misinterpreted it to mean something else.

    Yup, he tripped himself up. First he said that he was talking to Neil’s office and then he says, “Neil said….” A lie for sure.

  715. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:56 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Absolutely, they’d have to have been best friends for life, and if that were so, this guy wouldn’t have said this even if Abercrombie really did say it. With a friend like that….. The friends Abercrombie would have told this to if he really did say it would not have gone on a radio show and said that he did say it, especially without any proof that he said it.The proof is in the pudding; they were not good friends

    FUT: If my attorney told me it is illegal to talk about something, I wouldn’t even tell my wife unless it directly concerned her. I certainly wouldn’t talk about it with a Hollywood reporter. It wouldn’t matter if it he was my best friend from Kindergarten until today, I wouldn’t risk jail over it. And that is what Abercrombie would be risking by talking about this against the advice of the AG. In fact, the AG may now be obligated to investigate, since there is a possible violation of the law.

    At least Scooter Libby broke the law to help his side. In this case, Abercrombie would be breaking the law to hurt his side. That makes no sense. And as Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true”.

  716. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:00 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    Everyone needs to listen more closely. Evans doesn’t say that he spoke to Abercrombie. He says that he spoke to Abercrombies office. It’s at 1:14.
    “Yesterday, talking to Neil’s office, Neil says…”
    Nowhere does he say that he got this directly from Abercrombie’s mouth. He spoke to somebody in Abercrombie’s office, and like so many others he was told one thing and he misinterpreted it to mean something else.

    I saw that also, bu then later he said that he asked Neil when was the first time he saw him and he brought up the t-ball story. So I wasn’t sure whether there were two conversations or that he meant when he called the office, he actually spoke to Governor Neil.

  717. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:00 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist:
    FUT:If my attorney told me it is illegal to talk about something, I wouldn’t even tell my wife unless it directly concerned her.I certainly wouldn’t talk about it with a Hollywood reporter.It wouldn’t matter if it he was my best friend from Kindergarten until today, I wouldn’t risk jail over it.And that is what Abercrombie would be risking by talking about this against the advice of the AG.In fact, the AG may now be obligated to investigate, since there is a possible violation of the law.At least Scooter Libby broke the law to help his side. In this case, Abercrombie would be breaking the law to hurt his side.That makes no sense.And as Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true”.

    That’s absolutely true too, scientist. It’s ridiculous to think that he would go blabbing anything to a reporter when he had only been in office a few weeks and after he was advised by a legal authority that it is a violation of law to say anything about it.

  718. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:11 pm  (Quote)

    Another point: Evans says, “Abercrombie used his authority as Governor” to ask the hospiitals for records. Since when is that part of the Governor’s authority? especially wjhen it violates the law? Second, hospitals don’t keep birth certificates; they fill them out and forward them to DOH. They would keep medical records from the birth, but I doubt they would keep them for 50 years.

    As Judge Judy also says, “Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining”. My guess is that this a publicity stunt designed to get attention and boost this guy’s ratiings. The sad thing is it will probably work, at least in the short term.

  719. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:15 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Another point: Evans says, “Abercrombie used his authority as Governor” to ask the hospiitals for records.Since when is that part of the Governor’s authority?especially wjhen it violates the law? Second, hospitals don’t keep birth certificates; they fill them out and forward them to DOH.They would keep medical records from the birth, but I doubt they would keep them for 50 years.As Judge Judy also says, “Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining”.My guess is that this apublicity stunt designed to get attention and boost this guy’s ratiings.The sad thing is it will probably work, at least in the short term.

    It’s another lie by the birther klan to keep the lie going. All their cases have been tossed out of court, and Congress recently told them to pound salt. This gives them a lot of time on their hands to make up lies and throw some red meat to the members

  720. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:15 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: Another point: Evans says, “Abercrombie used his authority as Governor” to ask the hospiitals for records.Since when is that part of the Governor’s authority?especially wjhen it violates the law? Second, hospitals don’t keep birth certificates; they fill them out and forward them to DOH.They would keep medical records from the birth, but I doubt they would keep them for 50 years.As Judge Judy also says, “Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining”.My guess is that this apublicity stunt designed to get attention and boost this guy’s ratiings.The sad thing is it will probably work, at least in the short term.

    Which further shows that Evans using the same tired birther BS to make up his claims. This is the same crap Adams tried to say about the hospital records. Most states don’t keep hospital records longer than 20 years. The average required by law is 5-7 years

  721. Rickey says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:18 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    I saw that also, bu then later he said that he asked Neil when was the first time he saw him and he brought up the t-ball story.So I wasn’t sure whether there were two conversations or that he meant when he called the office, he actually spoke to Governor Neil.

    It seems to me that if he spoke directly to Abercrombie, he would have said “Yesterday, while talking to Neil, he said…” But that’s not what he said. He said that he was talking to Abercrombie’s office. I suspect that he then was told essentially what was reported in the newspaper, and like so many people he jumped to a conclusion.

    You’ll note that he also claimed that Abercrombie said that he “was going to get Obama’s birth certificate,” and as we know Abercrombie never said that.

  722. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:19 pm  (Quote)

    charo: My dad always told me that there is a logical explanation for everything. I would expect that MIke Evans will be questioned. I find it hard to believe that he is a Tim Adams because he is a radio personality. We’ll surely hear more. I’ll wait.

    Radio personalities tend to say lots of crazy and outrageous stuff. Radio personalities are what they are for their entertainment value mostly and rarely voices of factual authority.

  723. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:20 pm  (Quote)

    Do we even know the guy being interviewed IS Mike Evans? I checked out his website http://www.evansradio.com and there is not a word about this. Nothing on his blog either. Does anyone think a reporter would have a story this big and have nada on his blog?

  724. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    It seems to me that if he spoke directly to Abercrombie, he would have said “Yesterday, while talking to Neil, he said…” But that’s not what he said. He said that he was talking to Abercrombie’s office. I suspect that he then was told essentially what was reported in the newspaper, and like so many people he jumped to a conclusion.
    You’ll note that he also claimed that Abercrombie said that he “was going to get Obama’s birth certificate,” and as we know Abercrombie never said that.

    He probably did talk to Neil’s office and he said that by mistake since that’s what really did happen. He probably meant to say, as you said, that he was talking to Neil, but the truth got in the way, and he said what really happened by accident, ie., that he was talking to the OFFICE and not Neil. The lie started when he said, “Neil said…”

    Not only did he not say that he was going to get Obama’s birth certificate, he also knew that even if he had it, it couldn’t be released to the public anyway, and he clearly said that he wanted to find something that he could release to the public

  725. Daniel says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:26 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Who’s telling the truth? Abercrombie or Mike Evans?

    Again, nothing at all to do with Obama’s eligibility.

  726. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:29 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    He probably did talk to Neil’s office and he said that by mistake since that’s what really did happen. He probably meant to say, as you said, that he was talking to Neil, but the truth got in the way, and he said what really happened by accident, ie.,that he was talking to the OFFICE and not Neil. The lie started when he said, “Neil said…”Not only did he not say that he was going to get Obama’s birth certificate, he also knew that even if he had it, it couldn’t be released to the public anyway, and he clearly said that he wanted to find something that he could release to the public

    I just did a search on the guy’s blog for abercrombie. http://evansradio.com/blog/?s=abercrombie

    Abercrombie’s name shows up once when he talks about how he is going to see his congressman and senator. Never once does he say that he’s good friends with the congressman and only says Abercrombie has a lot of good stories about Barack.

  727. G says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    My dad worked for the steel mill (Clariton Works) for 44 years.It’s in the blood!We don’t live in the Pittsburgh area any more, but you will always find a fan wherever you go.We went to the Outer Banks this past fall and there is a restaurant, Barefoot Bernie’s, that is a Steeler haven.My husband and I ran into a couple in the elevator at a hotel in Virginia (while we were en route) and they told us about the restaurant/bar.Kid friendly as well as boisterous.

    Although I’m from Cleveland and therefore, a long suffering die-hard Browns fan, the intense rivalry between the Steelers & the Browns I view as a “friendly” one, as Pittsburgh & Cleveland are fairly similar nearby cities with similar backgrounds and I have many friends who live in the Pittsburgh area or who have relocated from there. When the Browns are out of the picture, I join with them in rooting for the Steelers, as we’re all part of the same AFC-North after all. On a side note – love the OBX. Was there the past 2 summers in a row.

  728. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:37 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I just did a search on the guy’s blog for abercrombie.http://evansradio.com/blog/?s=abercrombieAbercrombie’s name shows up once when he talks about how he is going to see his congressman and senator.Never once does he say that he’s good friends with the congressman and only says Abercrombie has a lot of good stories about Barack.

    Yes, Bob, the interview is pretty sketchy too. Maybe it isn’t even Evans on the telephone.

    Another thing he says too that is wrong is, “Now he even admits publicly that there is no birth certificate.” (1:46) HUH? Where?

  729. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:42 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Another thing he says too that is wrong is, “Now he even admits publicly that there is no birth certificate.” (1:46) HUH? Where?

    Yeah, this is just red meat for the klan members. That statement proves it since Abercrombie never said that. It’s what the klan thinks based on the WND article, but that’s not anything Abercrombie ever said in public

  730. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:48 pm  (Quote)

    They’re pulling false statements off WND and repeating them on the air as if they were true.

  731. Scientist says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:52 pm  (Quote)

    And top it off, our old friend Tim Adams now has sworn as affidavit http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=254401#ixzz1C0csSiyA

    All right before the State of the Union, when Obama is now above 50% approval in all polls, even Rasmussen. Coincidence? Or are some people very worried?

  732. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:55 pm  (Quote)

    This Evans clown obviously has more of a connection to World Nutjob Daily than he does to Governor Abercrombie

  733. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 9:57 pm  (Quote)

    Scientist: And top it off, our old friend Tim Adams now has sworn as affidavit http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=254401#ixzz1C0csSiyAAll right before the State of the Union, when Obama is now above 50% approval in all polls, even Rasmussen.Coincidence?Or are some people very worried?

    lmao. He’s swearing that his supervisor told him something that his supervisor said he didn’t tell him? AND HE DID IT UNDER OATH????? ROFLMAO.

  734. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 10:02 pm  (Quote)

    Still no names from Adams. Nice try – FAIL!

    He’s may be in big trouble for #7. He names names – Lingle and Fukino – accusing them of making false public statements

  735. Majority Will says:
    January 24, 2011 at 10:10 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Still no names from Adams. Nice try – FAIL!He’s may be in big trouble for #7. He names names – Lingle and Fukino – accusing them of making false public statements

    And this from Adams to Phil at the RSoL:

    “Phil,
    Thank you for the Email. Actually I believe God has a sense of humor, because I thought these notions were pretty well common and not very important. I was actually just in Nashville, observing a conservative political conference, I’m not a member of any kind of group, and too liberal for these guys, when James Edwards, the host of the Political Cesspool, heard about me from someone and asked if I would simply state what I had observed and been told while working in Hawaii. I believe Pres. Obama was born a United States citizen, and is eligible to hold office, I find the idea that because he was probably born outside of the U.S., he must be some kind of alien to be basically racist. I do think we should close this issue and pass legislation requiring office seekers to prove identity before running for elected office.

    Thanks for the kind inquiry.”

  736. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 10:17 pm  (Quote)

    Majority Will:
    And this from Adams to Phil at the RSoL:“Phil,
    Thank you for the Email. Actually I believe God has a sense of humor, because I thought these notions were pretty well common and not very important. I was actually just in Nashville, observing a conservative political conference, I’m not a member of any kind of group, and too liberal for these guys, when James Edwards, the host of the Political Cesspool, heard about me from someone and asked if I would simply state what I had observed and been told while working in Hawaii. I believe Pres. Obama was born a United States citizen, and is eligible to hold office, I find the idea that because he was probably born outside of the U.S., he must be some kind of alien to be basically racist. I do think we should close this issue and pass legislation requiring office seekers to prove identity before running for elected office.Thanks for the kind inquiry.”

    I guess that’s about as much of a tacit admission to being a racist he can make without coming right out and saying it.

  737. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 10:47 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Yeah, this is just red meat for the klan members. That statement proves it since Abercrombie never said that. It’s what the klan thinks based on the WND article, but that’s not anything Abercrombie ever said in public

    Mike Evans discussing himself:
    http://www.evansradio.com/mikestory.html

    So … you want to know more about me? Well, it is a strange one, but here you go.

    My father was a career man in the Navy and married my Mom when they were both 18. I was born in Honolulu, while Dad was based at Pearl Harbor. My Mom died before I was two. My Dad took care of me when he could, but when he was sent out to sea I lived in orphanages and was often shipped off to my Grandmother, Neena. That meant a lot of traveling from Hawaii to Manhattan Beach, California where Neena lived. But, looking back, it was all good. Surfing and fishing were my life, and growing up in Hawaii was the most wonderful experience a child could have.

    I was always interested in radio, and a Honolulu morning disc jockey name Aku was almost as famous as King Kamehameha. One morning Aku locked himself inside his radio booth and continued to play the same song over and over until the police came and broke down the door. To this day I do not know if it was a stunt or real, but it made a lasting impression on me that would guide my career goals.

    When I was 14, Dad married another woman, she had 2 children and he was transferred to the Mainland. Over the next 2 years we traveled constantly. While he was based at the Great Lakes Naval Training center near Chicago, I heard another disc jockey on the radio that, like Aku, made a huge impression on me. His name was Dick Biondi, and believe it or not, Dick is STILL in radio AND on the station in Chicago you can catch me on! But I digress.

    From Hawaii, to Long Beach, California, to Virginia Beach, to Patterson, New Jersey, those 2 years from 14 to 16 were crazy, and I attended very little school! Everywhere we went however, I listened to radio and found it to be my one constant source of enjoyment and refuge. Then Dad got transferred back to Long Beach, California for good. I started school at Redondo Beach but after the first semester, I was told that all the traveling I had done and all the school I had missed would keep me from graduating on time. At that very moment I decided to quit High School. I took a job working 60 hours a week selling shoes at May Company Department store. I saved every penny to buy a car.

    When I was 17, I started driving the 20 miles from Redondo Beach to Hollywood, trying to get a job in radio, doing anything. The second station I went to was KRLA. They hired me to be a flunky, from sweeping floors, to running errands, to putting away music to working the switchboard.

    Little did I know that working the switchboard would change my life, forever. Record labels employed people that went to stations and brought their new records to the Program Directors in hopes they could convince them to play them on the radio. One such record guy worked for Decca Records, and the 2 of us became friends. At one point he complained that his car had broken down, and I offered to let him use mine, since I stayed at the station all day. He used my car from time to time, and from time to time, I stayed at his house he shared with his girlfriend so I rather than drive back to Redondo. He and his girlfriend also sang together, calling themselves, Cesar and Cleo and I would drive them or just go, with them, to their singing gigs. A few months after meeting him, he and his girlfriend decided to just use their own names while singing, Sonny and Cher. During this same time, Sonny got me a part time gig working with two guys named Charlie Green and Brian Stone who managed Sonny and Cher while trying to get them a record deal. During their first recording session, I played tambourine on the songs, Look at Us and I Got You Babe. My life changed overnight.

    I booked Sonny and Cher at 30-40 concerts in the Los Angeles area, usually High School concerts. Did some work on their television show, but then was drafted.

    When I was 24, I got back into the media, selling the idea of a 5 minute syndicated interview show covering the Los Angeles Dodgers and California Angels. I DID sell the show to General Telephone. They bought the idea and for 3 years traveled with the two teams. Then, out of the clear blue sky, I was offered a job doing a weekend Sports Talk Show on KABC radio in Los Angeles. I took the job for almost 2 years and was also the Assistant Program Director – nothing more than a job doing everything for little money. It was during this time I accidentally found a guy named Ed Bieler a.k.a. SUPERFAN. Basketball great Bill Russell was doing the Monday through Friday SPORTS TALK SHOW on KABC, and failing miserably! I talked KABC management Ben Hoberman and George Green into hiring SUPERFAN, and SUPERFAN was so successful, the Dodgers even switched to KABC. Despite Beiler being very successful, I wanted to do something different and wanted out of KABC. Then I bumped into an old buddy, a guy named Jerry Lisker. Jerry was an author and covered the really big sporting events, including the World Series where I met him years earlier. One day Jerry called and said that he had met a guy that was buying the National Star tabloid paper and they were going to keep the last 8 pages sports. He also knew that I still ran in the Hollywood scene and said my knowledge of that world could be an asset. He and offered me the job as the National Star West Coast Sports and Entertainment Editor. I jumped at it! For the next couple years I wrote Hollywood and Sports gossip for the National Star, while also doing call-in bits on some friends morning shows, just to stay on the air. Then, Jerry called to say that the same guy that owned the STAR, was going to buy the New York Post and wanted to know if I would be interested in being the West Coast Sports and Entertainment Editor for the New York Post, including being a big part of their PAGE 6 gossip column…oh, YEAH! I was flown from L. A. to New York to meet this bigwig named Rupert Murdock! My boss was the PAGE 6 Editor — Robin Leach.

    Working for the Post was great and I did it for three years, but my lack of Education, poor spelling and bad writing skills finally did me in. But, that was all right. I had already started making my way back into radio (my first love) by doing Play-by-Play on radio for Cal State Long Beach football and basketball. Plus, I was still doing some funny little bits on a couple morning shows in L.A. and keeping my name out there in the radio industry.

    During all these years, I also met and married a United Airlines Flight Attendant and had 2 great daughters and despite divorcing, I remained a joint custody father.

    In 1980, I was dating the girl who did the mid-day show on a new pirate type station in Los Angeles called KROQ. I went with her to the station Christmas party in Malibu and met the Program Director, Rick Carroll. My life was about to change again! Rick said he had heard me doing funny bits on some other morning shows and asked if I would like to do mornings at KROQ. I agreed, and for the next 10 years that is what I did. And during those 10 years, KROQ became the most famous station in rock radio history!

    It wasn’t all a bowl of cherries. A couple of times during that period I was fired or quit and as always, when the chips were down, would head back to Hawaii, the only place that was ever home to me. I even did mornings back in Honolulu! However, I would only be gone 6 to 9 months and then it was back to KROQ.

    When I finally left KROQ for good, I did some Radio morning show consulting and was even a media director for a large hotel chain. But, after a couple years off, I was ready to get back on the air. Then I decided to put something together I had always wanted to do — a syndicated 5-minute feature that would be a live commentary on Hollywood, while also covering the biggest stories and events in the country. I started making calls on June 1, 1994. On June 12th, O. J. Simpson killed his wife and Ron Goldman and I still had an L. A. PRESS pass. Using the O. J. trial as a selling point, ON THE ROAD WITH MIKE EVANS became an instant hit, and voila, here we are on 56 morning-shows everyday from coast-to-coast!

    I have covered everything including the World Series, Super Bowls, Inaugurations, and an Impeachment. There have been hundreds of Movie Premiers, several Moon Shots, and 18 Academy Awards, and everything in between. I have interviewed Presidents and every sports and Hollywood star out there. Life has been very good for this High School dropout, and I give all praise to God. And the icing on the cake is my 10-year marriage to my great wife Cheryl while also getting 2 more great kids!

    Talk to you on the radio!

    ***********

    Based upon the foregoing, it sounds like this guy Evans wants a scoop. The date of the radio spot he did (and apparently he always does a spot) was January 21, 2011 before 7:00 a.m. The earliest news release I could find concerning Abercrombie dropping his pursuit of the birth issue was 9:00 p.m. the same day (I think Chicago time is four hours ahead of Hawaii) http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/hawaii-wont-release-obama-birth-info/

    It would be interesting to know when Neil A. spoke to the AG. If Governor Neil did speak to Mike Evans first, he would have done so prior to the Chicago article, but who knows when the AG spoke to Abercrombie.

    (I listened to the clip again, and although he initially says he called the office, he several times said he spoke to Neil directly.)

  738. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 10:53 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    Mike Evans discussing himself:
    http://www.evansradio.com/mikestory.htmlSo … you want to know more about me? Well, it is a strange one, but here you go.My father was a career man in the Navy and married my Mom when they were both 18. I was born in Honolulu, while Dad was based at Pearl Harbor. My Mom died before I was two. My Dad took care of me when he could, but when he was sent out to sea I lived in orphanages and was often shipped off to my Grandmother, Neena. That meant a lot of traveling from Hawaii to Manhattan Beach, California where Neena lived. But, looking back, it was all good. Surfing and fishing were my life, and growing up in Hawaii was the most wonderful experience a child could have.I was always interested in radio, and a Honolulu morning disc jockey name Aku was almost as famous as King Kamehameha. One morning Aku locked himself inside his radio booth and continued to play the same song over and over until the police came and broke down the door. To this day I do not know if it was a stunt or real, but it made a lasting impression on me that would guide my career goals.When I was 14, Dad married another woman, she had 2 children and he was transferred to the Mainland. Over the next 2 years we traveled constantly. While he was based at the Great Lakes Naval Training center near Chicago, I heard another disc jockey on the radio that, like Aku, made a huge impression on me. His name was Dick Biondi, and believe it or not, Dick is STILL in radio AND on the station in Chicago you can catch me on! But I digress.From Hawaii, to Long Beach, California, to Virginia Beach, to Patterson, New Jersey, those 2 years from 14 to 16 were crazy, and I attended very little school! Everywhere we went however, I listened to radio and found it to be my one constant source of enjoyment and refuge. Then Dad got transferred back to Long Beach, California for good. I started school at Redondo Beach but after the first semester, I was told that all the traveling I had done and all the school I had missed would keep me from graduating on time. At that very moment I decided to quit High School. I took a job working 60 hours a week selling shoes at May Company Department store. I saved every penny to buy a car.When I was 17, I started driving the 20 miles from Redondo Beach to Hollywood, trying to get a job in radio, doing anything. The second station I went to was KRLA. They hired me to be a flunky, from sweeping floors, to running errands, to putting away music to working the switchboard.Little did I know that working the switchboard would change my life, forever. Record labels employed people that went to stations and brought their new records to the Program Directors in hopes they could convince them to play them on the radio. One such record guy worked for Decca Records, and the 2 of us became friends. At one point he complained that his car had broken down, and I offered to let him use mine, since I stayed at the station all day. He used my car from time to time, and from time to time, I stayed at his house he shared with his girlfriend so I rather than drive back to Redondo. He and his girlfriend also sang together, calling themselves, Cesar and Cleo and I would drive them or just go, with them, to their singing gigs. A few months after meeting him, he and his girlfriend decided to just use their own names while singing, Sonny and Cher. During this same time, Sonny got me a part time gig working with two guys named Charlie Green and Brian Stone who managed Sonny and Cher while trying to get them a record deal. During their first recording session, I played tambourine on the songs, Look at Us and I Got You Babe. My life changed overnight.I booked Sonny and Cher at 30-40 concerts in the Los Angeles area, usually High School concerts. Did some work on their television show, but then was drafted.When I was 24, I got back into the media, selling the idea of a 5 minute syndicated interview show covering the Los Angeles Dodgers and California Angels. I DID sell the show to General Telephone. They bought the idea and for 3 years traveled with the two teams. Then, out of the clear blue sky, I was offered a job doing a weekend Sports Talk Show on KABC radio in Los Angeles. I took the job for almost 2 years and was also the Assistant Program Director – nothing more than a job doing everything for little money. It was during this time I accidentally found a guy named Ed Bieler a.k.a. SUPERFAN. Basketball great Bill Russell was doing the Monday through Friday SPORTS TALK SHOW on KABC, and failing miserably! I talked KABC management Ben Hoberman and George Green into hiring SUPERFAN, and SUPERFAN was so successful, the Dodgers even switched to KABC. Despite Beiler being very successful, I wanted to do something different and wanted out of KABC. Then I bumped into an old buddy, a guy named Jerry Lisker. Jerry was an author and covered the really big sporting events, including the World Series where I met him years earlier. One day Jerry called and said that he had met a guy that was buying the National Star tabloid paper and they were going to keep the last 8 pages sports. He also knew that I still ran in the Hollywood scene and said my knowledge of that world could be an asset. He and offered me the job as the National Star West Coast Sports and Entertainment Editor. I jumped at it! For the next couple years I wrote Hollywood and Sports gossip for the National Star, while also doing call-in bits on some friends morning shows, just to stay on the air. Then, Jerry called to say that the same guy that owned the STAR, was going to buy the New York Post and wanted to know if I would be interested in being the West Coast Sports and Entertainment Editor for the New York Post, including being a big part of their PAGE 6 gossip column…oh, YEAH! I was flown from L. A. to New York to meet this bigwig named Rupert Murdock! My boss was the PAGE 6 Editor — Robin Leach.Working for the Post was great and I did it for three years, but my lack of Education, poor spelling and bad writing skills finally did me in. But, that was all right. I had already started making my way back into radio (my first love) by doing Play-by-Play on radio for Cal State Long Beach football and basketball. Plus, I was still doing some funny little bits on a couple morning shows in L.A. and keeping my name out there in the radio industry.During all these years, I also met and married a United Airlines Flight Attendant and had 2 great daughters and despite divorcing, I remained a joint custody father.In 1980, I was dating the girl who did the mid-day show on a new pirate type station in Los Angeles called KROQ. I went with her to the station Christmas party in Malibu and met the Program Director, Rick Carroll. My life was about to change again! Rick said he had heard me doing funny bits on some other morning shows and asked if I would like to do mornings at KROQ. I agreed, and for the next 10 years that is what I did. And during those 10 years, KROQ became the most famous station in rock radio history!It wasn’t all a bowl of cherries. A couple of times during that period I was fired or quit and as always, when the chips were down, would head back to Hawaii, the only place that was ever home to me. I even did mornings back in Honolulu! However, I would only be gone 6 to 9 months and then it was back to KROQ.When I finally left KROQ for good, I did some Radio morning show consulting and was even a media director for a large hotel chain. But, after a couple years off, I was ready to get back on the air. Then I decided to put something together I had always wanted to do — a syndicated 5-minute feature that would be a live commentary on Hollywood, while also covering the biggest stories and events in the country. I started making calls on June 1, 1994. On June 12th, O. J. Simpson killed his wife and Ron Goldman and I still had an L. A. PRESS pass. Using the O. J. trial as a selling point, ON THE ROAD WITH MIKE EVANS became an instant hit, and voila, here we are on 56 morning-shows everyday from coast-to-coast!I have covered everything including the World Series, Super Bowls, Inaugurations, and an Impeachment. There have been hundreds of Movie Premiers, several Moon Shots, and 18 Academy Awards, and everything in between. I have interviewed Presidents and every sports and Hollywood star out there. Life has been very good for this High School dropout, and I give all praise to God. And the icing on the cake is my 10-year marriage to my great wife Cheryl while also getting 2 more great kids!Talk to you on the radio!***********Based upon the foregoing, it sounds like this guy Evans wants a scoop.The date of the radio spot he did (and apparently he always does a spot) was January 21, 2011 before 7:00 a.m.The earliest news release I could find concerning Abercrombie dropping his pursuit of the birth issue was 9:00 p.m. the same day (I think Chicago time is four hours ahead of Hawaii)http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/hawaii-wont-release-obama-birth-info/It would be interesting to know when Neil A. spoke to the AG.If Governor Neil did speak to Mike Evans first, he would have done so prior to the Chicago article, but who knows when the AG spoke to Abercrombie.(I listened to the clip again, and although he initially says he called the office, he several times said he spoke to Neil directly.)

    I emailed Abercrombie a copy of the video, and when he says this guy is a liar, I don’t want to hear you calling Abercrombie a liar. There are enough discrepancies in the interview to prove this guy is making stuff up and pulling lies off WND and repeating them on the air as if they are true for any rational person to know he’s lying. When Abercrombie verifies that this guy is a lying nutjob, it’s because it’s the truth

  739. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:01 pm  (Quote)

    The clown on the radio said that Abercrombie admitted in public that Hawaii has no proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii. That’s absolutely false. It was stated in a WND article that Abercrombie said that, but in truth, he never said that, so the clown is just looking to throw the birthers some red meat by repeating WND lies and adding his own

  740. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    If you read above, it wasn’t me calling Abercrombie a liar. I quoted my dad in saying that there is a logical explanation for everything. I also said that he could have misquoted the Governor, but you were at first harping on the idea that Governor Neil didn’t even know this “clown.”

  741. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:02 pm  (Quote)

    Did you e-mail the radio spot?

  742. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:04 pm  (Quote)

    charo: If you read above, it wasn’t me calling Abercrombie a liar.I quoted my dad in saying that there is a logical explanation for everything.I also said that he could have misquoted the Governor, but you were at first harping on the idea that Governor Neil didn’t even know this “clown.”

    Yup, my bad and I apologize. I don’t know you well enough to know if you are a full-fledged member of the klan or not, but I know what those members will say when Abercrombie says this clown is lying

  743. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:05 pm  (Quote)

    That and the Adams article along with his sworn statement in which he accuses Lingle and Fukino of lying to the public

  744. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:05 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: The clown on the radio said that Abercrombie admitted in public that Hawaii has no proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

    There were other outlets that made that same wrong interpretation. But that doesn’t mean he never spoke to the Governor. I’m glad you e-mailed. I hope you get a response, and then Mike Evans can respond back.

  745. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:07 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    There were other outlets that made that same wrong interpretation.But that doesn’t mean he never spoke to the Governor.I’m glad you e-mailed.I hope you get a response, and then Mike Evans can respond back.

    He let the truth get in the way when he said he spoke to “Neil’s office” and then changed his story to “Neil said…” Apparently, he failed to fully learn his script before he opened his mouth

  746. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:10 pm  (Quote)

    Yes, other birther news outlets made that same “mistake.”

  747. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:12 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    He let the truth get in the way when he said he spoke to “Neil’s office” and then changed his story to “Neil said…” Apparently, he failed to fully learn his script before he opened his mouth

    You could be right, but why don’t you wait until you get response? I find it even more interesting that Adams appears to be challenging his former supervisors to a legal fight. How will they respond?

  748. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm  (Quote)

    And in all probability, it’s likely those news outlets liked what they read on WND and just repeated the “mistake” because they liked what it said

    I’m not expecting a personal response from Abercrombie. Like I said, there are too may discrepancies in his claims first of all. Second of all, there is all the proof in the world that he’s lying. I don’t have to wait until Abercrombie verifies what I already know.

  749. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm  (Quote)

    The Evans’ statements are easy for the Governor to refudiate (haha). What if he says nothing? Will your response be that it is too ridiculous for him to respond?

  750. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:16 pm  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I’m not expecting a personal response from Abercrombie.

    I guess Mike Evans can keep talking then.

  751. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:17 pm  (Quote)

    Well accusing a governor or two of lying to the public should piss somebody in Hawaii off. I frankly hope they both get dragged into court and are told to provide proof of their claims; they will fail on that account of course.

  752. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:31 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    You could be right, but why don’t you wait until you getresponse?I find it even more interesting that Adams appears to be challenging his former supervisors to a legal fight.How will they respond?

    Once again Charo why is it you seem to jump at every little made up birther story. You’ve already gotten the state department information saying Obama was born in America. Adams continues to be short on specifics. Anyone can file an affidavit. I could file an affidavit saying that my neighbor has an affinity for molesting sheep and a notary will sign it and it will be a sworn affidavit.

  753. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:35 pm  (Quote)

    Wow, you can even email Hawaii’s attorney general from their website

  754. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:38 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Once again Charo why is it you seem to jump at every little made up birther story.You’ve already gotten the state department information saying Obama was born in America.Adams continues to be short on specifics.Anyone can file an affidavit.I could file an affidavit saying that my neighbor has an affinity for molesting sheep and a notary will sign it and it will be a sworn affidavit.

    Yes, how many times have we been through this same nonsense in the past 2.5 years? Every time some nutjob comes out and says something, the birther klan says what a great day it is because this one’s telling the truth. After all that crapola, nothing becomes of it, it dies after two weeks, and the klan has to admit that they’re just blowing smoke up everyone’s butt again; this time is no different.

  755. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:43 pm  (Quote)

    Their claims are so contrary to the facts that anyone who believes them has a few screws loose. They don’t believe these crazies because it might be true, they believe them because they want it to be true

  756. misha says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:49 pm  (Quote)

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I could file an affidavit saying that my neighbor has an affinity for molesting sheep and a notary will sign it and it will be a sworn affidavit.

    I filed an affidavit that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990.

  757. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:50 pm  (Quote)

    misha:
    I filed an affidavit that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990.

    ROFLMAO!

  758. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:50 pm  (Quote)

    Sorry Doc Ross, but I don’t think it is fair to call a radio personality a Klan member when all of the facts are not in concerning the call to the Gov’s office. I am merely an interested onlooker.

  759. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:52 pm  (Quote)

    misha:
    I filed an affidavit that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990.

    He should answer to that. It’s been going around for some time now.

  760. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:54 pm  (Quote)

    charo: Sorry Doc Ross, but I don’t think it is fair to call a radio personality a Klan member when all of the facts are not in concerning the call to the Gov’s office.I am merely an interested onlooker.

    That was me. It’s my New Year’s resolution to start telling the truth about the birther klan since I never went there before. After more than two and a half years of this nonsense, there is no other explanation

  761. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:56 pm  (Quote)

    Abercrombie is no more going to say that he told that to this clown any more than Michelle Obama is going to say that she meant that her husband was born in Kenya when she said that Kenya is his homeland. It’s absurd

  762. charo says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:57 pm  (Quote)

    Sorry Doc Ross, but I don’t think it is fair to call a radio personality a Klan member when all of the facts are not in concerning the call to the Gov’s office. I am merely an interested onlooker.

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    That was me. It’s my New Year’s resolution to start telling the truth about the birther klan since I never went there before. After more than two and a half years of this nonsense, there is no other explanation

    I hope you are not someone whose identity is known because calling someone a Klan member, if that is not the case, is probably more actionable than calling someone a liar.

  763. misha says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:57 pm  (Quote)

    charo: He should answer to that. It’s been going around for some time now.

    Here’s the website about it:
    http://didglennbeckrapeandmurderagirl.blogspot.com/

  764. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 24, 2011 at 11:59 pm  (Quote)

    charo: Sorry Doc Ross, but I don’t think it is fair to call a radio personality a Klan member when all of the facts are not in concerning the call to the Gov’s office.I am merely an interested onlooker.
    I hope you are not someone whose identity is known because calling someone a Klan member, if that is not the case, is probably more actionable than calling someone a liar.

    Sue me. Misha will probably file an affidavit for you. The only birthers left after more than two and a half years of this nonsense are all racists; all others have accepted the truth

  765. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:02 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Sue me. Misha will probably file an affidavit for you. The only birthers left after more than two and a half years of this nonsense are all racists; all others have accepted the truth

    Why would I sue you? I thought you were talking about Mike Evans, whom you called a Klan member.

  766. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:02 am  (Quote)

    And racists will never, ever accept the truth because they’re….well….racists.

  767. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:04 am  (Quote)

    Evans most certainly is a member of the birther klan; that’s why he’s spreading wnd lies and adding his own

  768. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:10 am  (Quote)

    Doc’s going to be pissed when he gets back and finds out we blew up his blog from posting too much. We’re coming up on 1000

  769. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:26 am  (Quote)

    I e-mailed Mike Evans at the radio station, told him that commenters here do not believe his story, and asked him to address the issue on his radio spot. I have no idea whether the e-mail will be seen or responded to.

  770. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:30 am  (Quote)

    charo: I e-mailed Mike Evans at the radio station, told him that commenters here do not believe his story, and asked him to address the issue on his radio spot.I have no idea whether the e-mail will be seen or responded to.

    Good. Even more evidence for the attorney general

  771. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:31 am  (Quote)

    charo: The Evans’ statements are easy for the Governor to refudiate (haha). What if he says nothing? Will your response be that it is too ridiculous for him to respond?

    Yes. In a sense, it is quite ridiculous for him to respond.

    The absence of a response by Abercrombie to either this Evans radio broadcast or to Tim Adams latest publicity stunt would mean absolutely nothing.

    Public figures especially get lots of commentary and criticism thrown at them from all sources all the time – talking heads and pundits across the media spectrum – whether it be cable, network, print, blog posts or random commentary on the street.

    They rarely have the time or the inclination to pay attention to, let alone care about such things. If you are in politics or other high profile positions, you should develop a thick skin and not pay attention to such things. ( Obviously, a certain SP responds to almost any perceived criticism or story on her from any direction…but that’s her and her extremely thin skin and very far from normal. If anything, such a need to leap to respond so much shows that she’s not suited for the rigors of holding office again….But I digress… )

    Tim Adams latest stunt is just that – a mere publicity stunt. What does it really amount to, anyways? Think for a moment here. What legal or formal requirement arose that required him to suddenly make a sworn statement? NONE. So, what authority does it have and who really is going to care and why?

    Other than WND and a few other disreputable Birther sites stroking his desire to have his 15 minutes of fame, who’s clamoring for Tim Adam’s testimony on anything? NOBODY.

    Notice in his “sworn affidavit”, that he NEVER names any actual individuals that he worked with that supposedly told him all these things he claims. Just some generic statements that “Senior officers” told him such and such. No one is named. Not one. Since he was nothing but a mere intern, albeit one who might have had a fancy title, “senior officers” could be quite broad and is in the end, quite meaningless.

    There is no reason that even the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division should care to pay attention or respond to this. Why? There is no case before them. Tim doesn’t work for them anymore. There are no reasons to waste time responding to some random former employee who merely makes general statements on a signed piece of paper with no legal action or backing behind it. It doesn’t even rise to the level of slander or libel.

    Where he comes close to getting himself in trouble is in his #7, where he names Fukino & Lingle by name. But then again, he relays such a second hand account, that its meaningless and for the same reasons, doesn’t rise to any level that either of them or their offices would care.

    He’s just a guy off the street making claims and signing statements all on his own. It is no different that if a village idi0t get’s on a soapbox and start spouting a bunch of hearsay and then writes it all down in front of a notary and witnesses. What he has done on his own, without any formal inquiry or need for it has as much value and purpose as casual street gossip written onto toilet paper.

    So yeah, in the end, why assume that Abercrombie needs to respond to any of this at all. He can always naively chose to do so, but why bother? Is he going to waste his time personally responding to every loud mouth or loon with either a microphone or access to a notary who makes crazy claims just to get attention?

  772. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:39 am  (Quote)

    G: So yeah, in the end, why assume that Abercrombie needs to respond to any of this at all.

    I would think that because Evans said he called his office, he would want an official statement denying it. Mike Evans is not an anonymous person; there are interviews available that indicate at least that they are some kind of acquaintances. (The Governor says his full name, for instance, in one of the links) In other words, it is not a statement by someone named Squeeky who has a history of making inane statements. In the interviews, he appeared sane to me. As for Adams, I simply said he seems to be throwing fighting words and wondered if there would be a reaction. Time will bear out whether there will be any consequences.

  773. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:44 am  (Quote)

    charo: I guess Mike Evans can keep talking then.

    Who is stopping him?

    People seem to keep mistaking the right to free speech, which he has – in which you can say almost any crazy thing within reason…

    …with an expectation that others have to care or respect you for whatever comes out of your mouth or to take you seriously. They don’t. He can keep talking and people have a right to criticize him on it in response. That’s how it works.

    But there is no right or expectation that someone has to respond to him or his stories. That too is a personal choice. And not a wise one for someone in political offices to waste their time with. Then again, Abercrombie’s already shown some naivety in his first month as Governor, so who knows. Maybe he will be foolish enough to take the bait….

    But don’t hold your breath.

    charo: misha:
    I filed an affidavit that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990.

    He should answer to that. It’s been going around for some time now.

    For same reasons, there is no value to Beck responding to that rumor, which was created intentionally as a redirection to Beck of the same type of no-win false accusation statements he is known to make. It was merely someone trying to give Beck a taste of his own medicine. It is not much different from being hit with the false no-win question of “when did you stop beating your wife?”.

    You don’t waste time answering such questions like that, because they were intentionally designed to make someone look bad no matter what they answer, which is why they are bogus to begin with. That is the whole point.

    In many ways, these situations reflect the major flaw in Birtherism in general – the mistaken belief that any random fool can say something and that “magically” makes it true or that it in any way changes reality or affects real laws and policies. It doesn’t. It only makes the speaker or writer of such nonsense look like an idi0t.

  774. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 1:06 am  (Quote)

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And racists will never, ever accept the truth because they’re….well….racists.

    Bigots might be a more fair term. I don’t think it is accurate at all to say that just because there are some definite clear racists amongst them, that all the hard-core birthers share that motivation.

    There seem to be many forms of bigotry on display in the Birther community.

    In addition to the obvious one, there is a lot of Religious Bigotry that get’s stated – particularly misplaced anti-Muslim sentiment…but not just that – even some religious bigotry against his Christian beliefs, actions or even his policies not being “sufficiently Christian” for them. Those are all forms of Religious Bigotry on display.

    Then there is Sexism – another form of Bigotry. This seems to sum up the PUMA contingent of Birthers – who resent and hate Obama merely because he beat HRC in the 2008 Democratic Primaries under the bigoted premise that it was a “woman’s turn”. Amazingly, many of these same PUMAs suddenly turn away from every policy position their beloved HRC held (and which Obama mostly shared) and have become die-hard SP supporters….with the only common denominator between the two is that they are female and she is opposed to Obama. So yeah, those are some pretty clear cases of anti-male sexism.

    Then there are those that display clear political/ideological bigotry – irrational hatred & fear of anyone who doesn’t share their world view – usually a specific very conservative world view. Sadly, we’ve seen this crop grow over the past 30 years – almost bred to view anyone who thinks differently then them as “evil” and the “enemy” – to the point today that everyone that disagrees with them is a “RINO” or “liberal” “commie socialist traitor nazi”…etc…

    So, are there racists amongst the Birthers? Obviously, as we’ve seen a number of Birthers reveal some clear racist motivations. But are all of them racists? I really don’t think so.

    Are MOST of them Bigots in the broader sense? It sure seems that way. And what blurs the line is that quite a few of of them demonstrate more than one type of Bigotry.

    However, I think that there are some hard-core Birthers that even fall outside of any of those types of Bigotry (at least so far in their statements) and that remaining category includes those that are simply mentally ill. And yes, I lump those that are hopelessly obsessed with convoluted paranoid world-spanning anti-government conspiracy as being amongst the mentally ill. To maintain that level of paranoia is completely unhealthy and transcends beyond where someone can be considered to have a rational or properly functioning mind.

  775. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 1:12 am  (Quote)

    charo: I would think that because Evans said he called his office, he would want an official statement denying it. Mike Evans is not an anonymous person; there are interviews available that indicate at least that they are some kind of acquaintances. (The Governor says his full name, for instance, in one of the links) In other words, it is not a statement by someone named Squeeky who has a history of making inane statements. In the interviews, he appeared sane to me. As for Adams, I simply said he seems to be throwing fighting words and wondered if there would be a reaction. Time will bear out whether there will be any consequences.

    If Abercrombie does respond, then that’s his choice and obviously we’ll be wasting time talking about it on here.

    Personally, I wouldn’t bother if I was in his place. Waste of time….and he would continue to show that he is politically naive in his new position if he takes such attention-whoring bait. But that’s just me.

    My whole point is don’t hold your breadth. There is no reason he *has* to respond to any of this any further at all.

    If he says nothing further on it, there is no further conclusion that anyone can draw from that silence that it wasn’t worthy of his time and attention.

  776. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 1:20 am  (Quote)

    G:
    Who is stopping him?People seem to keep mistaking the right to free speech, which he has – in which you can say almost any crazy thing within reason……with an expectation that others have to care or respect you for whatever comes out of your mouth or to take you seriously.They don’t.He can keep talking and people have a right to criticize him on it in response.That’s how it works.But there is no right or expectation that someone has to respond to him or his stories.That too is a personal choice.And not a wise one for someone in political offices to waste their time with.Then again, Abercrombie’s already shown some naivety in his first month as Governor, so who knows.Maybe he will be foolish enough to take the bait….But don’t hold your breath.
    For same reasons, there is no value to Beck responding to that rumor, which was created intentionally as a redirection to Beck of the same type of no-win false accusation statements he is known to make.It was merely someone trying to give Beck a taste of his own medicine.It is not much different from being hit with the false no-win question of “when did you stop beating your wife?”.You don’t waste time answering such questions like that, because they were intentionally designed to make someone look bad no matter what they answer, which is why they are bogus to begin with.That is the whole point. In many ways, these situations reflect the major flaw in Birtherism in general – the mistaken belief that any random fool can say something and that “magically” makes it true or that it in any way changes reality or affects real laws and policies.It doesn’t.It only makes the speaker or writer of such nonsense look like an idi0t.

    I have listened to three links with Neil Abercrombie and Mike Evans (there is a part 2 on one of the links). Mike Evans does not come across as the loon that you present. OTOH, I don’t know that he had an in-depth relationship with Abercrombie as he tries to present either. I was looking at the time line of when he made that radio spot versus when the article came out stating as follows:

    Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/hawaii-wont-release-obama-birth-info/

    The radio spot was done earlier on the same day.

    This has taken up way too much of my time. Because the radio spot has hit the main sites that deal with the eligibility issue (including this one), I would expect there to be some pressure on MIke Evans to either stick to what he said or he’ll have to back track, even of there is no statement by Abercrombie (although I expect his office to get hounded.)

  777. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:22 am  (Quote)

    charo: I have listened to three links with Neil Abercrombie and Mike Evans (there is a part 2 on one of the links). Mike Evans does not come across as the loon that you present. OTOH, I don’t know that he had an in-depth relationship with Abercrombie as he tries to present either. I was looking at the time line of when he made that radio spot versus when the article came out stating as follows:

    Charo, I never called Evans a loon.

    Beyond criticizing the CONTENT of specific radio interview portion from today in which both he and the other commentator stated several common birther myth-conceptions, I have not made ANY statements at all about the man himself, nor of denigrating whatever relationship he & Abercrombie have.

    Here is exactly what I said on that specific matter:

    G:
    I do NOT dispute that Evans and Abercrombie know each other, nor that Evans might consider him a long time “friend”. I simply don’t care what their relationship is to each other or see why it bears any further “investigating”. Evans can say whatever he wants and “interpret” things the way he wants to on some radio show. The fact of the matter is he is NOT anyone of authority on the issue and his “interpretations” don’t fully “jive” with any of the “official” reporting out there.

    In fact, they contradict the actual reports, so that leads me to question his credibility as an “authority” on the matter. Is Evans a “birther”? Possibly. During that broadcast, both he and the other voice on the show stated several common birther myths and misconceptions. As others have pointed out on similar types of he said/she said trivia – Evans statements are useless BECAUSE he has no authority on the issue and he’s doing nothing but try to put “second hand” words into Abercrombie’s mouth, that there is NO FIRSTHAND evidence to support. You simply couldn’t put Evans on a witness stand, because it is hearsay. You might think this is some big drama issue and we need to hear what Abercrombie says in response to Evan’s claims, but I do not. Simply put, people make second-hand claims about what others say or mean all the time… Evans statements are of no more true value on the issue than any cable commentator or bloviating talking head. It is all opinion and speculation and of no value if it is not from an authoritative source. If you’ve been following my posts on the entire Abercrombie issue, I’ve been consistent since the beginning – it has been nothing but an overblown story where expectations were raised beyond what was ever promised or said in the first place and it was just as likely to go nowhere further than what we’ve already known before. In the end, Much Ado About Nothing and a bunch of ginned up drama with nothing behind it.

    Now, my only reference using the term “loon” was in my response from about an hour-and-a-half ago, in which it should be apparent that I’m talking about why government officials shouldn’t respond to ANYBODY who tries to get attention from them by making outrageous statements.

    G: He’s just a guy off the street making claims and signing statements all on his own. It is no different that if a village idi0t get’s on a soapbox and start spouting a bunch of hearsay and then writes it all down in front of a notary and witnesses. What he has done on his own, without any formal inquiry or need for it has as much value and purpose as casual street gossip written onto toilet paper.

    So yeah, in the end, why assume that Abercrombie needs to respond to any of this at all. He can always naively chose to do so, but why bother? Is he going to waste his time personally responding to every loud mouth or loon with either a microphone or access to a notary who makes crazy claims just to get attention?

    If you want a clear position from me on the two specific individuals we’ve been discussing and their recent actions, then fine, here goes:

    1. Tim Adams – I think he is just trying to get his “15 minutes of fame” by flirting with birtherism. I think it is also obvious that he’s not fully “committed” to the cause and doesn’t like some of the negative feedback that comes with that attention and tries to be careful with what he says to different audiences. In the end, I think he’s just seeking attention. I don’t have any reason to think he’s mentally ill. I don’t have any reason to think he actually buys into birtherism either – due to his wishy-washiness on the topic. But his prior personal writing that have turned up as well as his hard to believe “coincidental” initial appearance on the public stage on a white-supremacist radio show all indicate that he harbors a level of personal racist views. I think he’s someone who privately is a racist and bigot but who tries to publically hide it. I think he likes the “idea” of the birther meme, but he doesn’t truly believe it.

    2. Mike Evans – His broader interviews show that he at least has had a cordial working relationship with Abercrombie in the past. His background, from what you’ve provided also shows that he’s spend a number of years focusing on gossip stories, including Hollywood style gossip. I don’t even have enough evidence at this point to consider him a “birther” but he and the other guy in that radio interview definitely and intentionally were pandering to birtherism with their talking points. I can’t comment on what his real motivations were, but I can speculate that he too is just opportunistically seeing this as a timely way to generate controversy and get attention. The info I’ve seen to date is insufficient for me conclude that he is either birther or some type of bigot and I have no indications that he is crazy. At this point, all I can call him directly (based on that radio interview) is an opportunist and someone who will shoot off his mouth and make bold claims of highly questionable credibility. That would apply to the other voice on the interview as well.

  778. nc1 says:
    January 25, 2011 at 3:36 am  (Quote)

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Hacking is not the same as forging. Now you’re out on a limb here. Hacking a central database is easy? How many government databases have you hacked into in your life? Are you suggesting somehow that Obama hacked the database?Actually a forger would just have to do one page. I’m sure this is where your friend Lucas Smith would come in handy.You’re also accusing Brennan of somehow forging passport documents? Good lord you’re nuts. Actually the whole passport request was for applications. Applications are often destroyed after a period of time. The other explanation would be that Stanley Ann didn’t have a passport before 1965

    1. In Obama’s case they forged just one paper – the image of that document is shown on FactCheck.

    2. On Brennan’s watch Obama passport records were modified.

    3. Forging database records is not my idea: Few years ago in New Jersey there was a criminal ring selling COLB documents legally issued by the state DoH. An insider placed fake data in the database and valid birth certificates were issued by unsuspecting clerks.

    4. There should have been an order for passport records destruction. There is no such thing. It is hard to believe that government destroys passport records without any paper trail documenting the process. Stanley Ann was renewing her passport in 1967 – therefore she had one prior to 1965.

  779. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 3:39 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    1.In Obama’s case they forged just one paper – the image of that document is shown on FactCheck.2.On Brennan’s watch Obama passport records were modified.3.Forging database records is not my idea: Few years ago in New Jersey there was a criminal ring selling COLB documents legally issued by the stateDoH.An insider placed fake data in the database and valid birth certificates were issued by unsuspecting clerks.4. There should have been an order for passport records destruction.There is no such thing.It is hard to believe that government destroys passport records without any paper trail documenting the process.Stanley Ann was renewing her passport in 1967 – therefore she had one prior to 1965.

    *yawn*. Again with your broken record nonsense.

    Sorry, no evidence of “forgery” except in your own head.

    If you really believed the bunk you push and that there was any forgery, then why are you wasting time here whining about it, instead of contacting the FBI or some other authority with the ability to follow up on such a serious matter…?

    …you are nothing but an empty suited coward, without the courage to act on your “convictions”.

  780. Lupin says:
    January 25, 2011 at 3:56 am  (Quote)

    G: Bigots might be a more fair term. I don’t think it is accurate at all to say that just because there are some definite clear racists amongst them, that all the hard-core birthers share that motivation.

    There seem to be many forms of bigotry on display in the Birther community.
    ETC.

    An outstanding analysis (as always), G.

    I have often myself used the term “xenophobe” but the various types of “bigotry” you identified are quite correct.

    Bottom line, there’s an almost primitive, “tribal” instinct in rejecting and hating those from the other tribe, and at the same time, accepting that anyone from one;s tribe can do no wrong.

    When Pawlenty was on Jon Stewart the other night, Jon tried to make him admit that Bush committed the very same “sins” that are now used to denounce Obama, but were heartily endorsed by the tribe before, and Pawlenty (who clearly is no fool, but lack any ethical compass whatsoever) steadfastly refused to answer the question.

    There is nothing more loathsome than the birthers’ delusional rejection of Obama (as opposed to principled opposition to his policies) because we, normal people, recognize instinctively the same blind, hate-driven attitude that has led to pogroms and lynchings in the past.

  781. Lupin says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:03 am  (Quote)

    nc1: 1. In Obama’s case they forged just one paper – the image of that document is shown on FactCheck.

    This is of course the product of more hate-filled delusion.

    Obama’s background has been thoroughly investigated by numerous US **AND FOREIGN** entities who would have had a vested interest in either torpedoing his campaign before he was elected, or even destabilize his presidency afterward.

    There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING abnormal, fraudulent or hidden about this president; what you see is exactly what there is. Obama’s past has been checked by experts. There’s nothing to be found.

    The “birther” thing is nothing but a hate-filled myth used by certain parties in the US to excite weak-minded, bigoted people like you into opposition.

  782. nc1 says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:18 am  (Quote)

    charo: The Evans’ statements are easy for the Governor to refudiate (haha). What if he says nothing? Will your response be that it is too ridiculous for him to respond?

    Have you considered the possibility that Abercrombie might be looking to cover his behind – he is the one who trusted Obama and pushed the resolution through Congress, he brought the letter claiming Obama’s birth in the Kapiolani Hospital.

    If he did those things having 100% confidence that Obama was telling the truth – it must have been devastating for him not to be able to find the long form birth certificate in the archive.

    He could use Mike Evans as a proxy to save his neck from future prosecution (by painting a public picture of Obama’s unsuspected supporter). At the same time, he can use plausible deniability if anybody asks him about Evans’ claims, while waiting to see how things turn out.

  783. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:26 am  (Quote)

    nc1: He could use Mike Evans as a proxy to save his neck from future prosecution (by painting a public picture of Obama’s unsuspected supporter). At the same time, he can use plausible deniability if anybody asks him about Evans’ claims, while waiting to see how things turn out.

    …only in the mind of the hopelessly delusional paranoid conspiracist….

  784. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:42 am  (Quote)

    Lupin:
    An outstanding analysis (as always), G.I have often myself used the term “xenophobe” but the various types of “bigotry” you identified are quite correct.Bottom line, there’s an almost primitive, “tribal” instinct in rejecting and hating those from the other tribe, and at the same time, accepting that anyone from one;s tribe can do no wrong.When Pawlenty was on Jon Stewart the other night, Jon tried to make him admit that Bush committed the very same “sins” that are now used to denounce Obama, but were heartily endorsed by the tribe before, and Pawlenty (who clearly is no fool, but lack any ethical compass whatsoever) steadfastly refused to answer the question.There is nothing more loathsome than the birthers’ delusional rejection of Obama (as opposed to principled opposition to his policies) because we, normal people, recognize instinctively the same blind, hate-driven attitude that has led to pogroms and lynchings in the past.

    “tribalism” is a good way to describe the mindset at play. It is definitely an extreme form of xenophobia, which includes not just looking or sounding different but also views “thinking different” as the “enemy” to one’s particular group or tribe.

    It is a petty and very closed-community mindset that may have a place back in primitive situations where resources are very scare and competition amongst rival tribes is high.

    It really has no place in a stable and advanced civilization.

    Hmmm…maybe we’re on to something here that explains why some of the ideas coming from such mindsets are so seemingly destructive and bad policy – at some primal level, maybe they view the very notion of a stable and advanced civilization as a threat – as there is no need for their type of thinking in that world. Maybe they really do fantasize about returning to a primitive and nearly lawless state of society that is more geared towards their “us vs. them” mentality.

    …Of course, their fantasy notions of such tend to over glamorize what that would be like and gloss over such realities as their “tribe” would be just as likely to end up at the bottom of the heap and suffer major losses as another and that such a lifestyle would entail constant struggle, loss, insecurity and shorter lifespans…

  785. obsolete says:
    January 25, 2011 at 5:17 am  (Quote)

    nc1: it must have been devastating for him not to be able to find the long form birth certificate in the archive.

    Show me the quote where Abercrombie says this or I am calling you a Goddam*ed Liar in front of everyone on this board.

  786. nc1 says:
    January 25, 2011 at 5:31 am  (Quote)

    obsolete: Show me the quote where Abercrombie says this or I am calling you a Goddam*ed Liar in front of everyone on this board.

    Mike Evans quoted Abercrombie saying that there was no long form birth certificate in any Hawaii archive, have you been asleep last two days?

    He did that just hours prior to Abercrombie announcing that he was abandoning the birth certificate pursuit.

  787. Daniel says:
    January 25, 2011 at 5:49 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Have you considered the possibility that Abercrombie might be looking to cover his behind –

    wouldashouldacoulda

    havwe anything substantive? No? Alllllllllrighty then.

  788. obsolete says:
    January 25, 2011 at 5:57 am  (Quote)

    nc1:
    Mike Evans quoted Abercrombie saying that there was no long form birth certificate in any Hawaii archive,

    Show me the quote.

  789. obsolete says:
    January 25, 2011 at 6:34 am  (Quote)

    nc1- you spent a lot of time claiming that Abercrombie said he couldn’t find the BC, and you linked to WND as proof. Even after others pointed out that the WND article actually DID NOT have any such quotes, and they were basically making sh*t up, you still continued to pimp them.
    You are apparently doing the same with the Mike Evans crap now. If you promote the dishonesty of others, while knowing they are dishonest, that makes you dishonest too.

    BTW- how did your calls to the Hawaiian DOH or FBI go earlier today? Did you report the forgeries? How many forgeries are we up to know? If Obama is such a dictator, do you fear for your life knowing that you are one of the very few to figure out his crimes?

  790. ellid says:
    January 25, 2011 at 7:39 am  (Quote)

    charo:
    My dad worked for the steel mill (Clariton Works) for 44 years.It’s in the blood!We don’t live in the Pittsburgh area any more, but you will always find a fan wherever you go.We went to the Outer Banks this past fall and there is a restaurant, Barefoot Bernie’s, that is a Steeler haven.My husband and I ran into a couple in the elevator at a hotel in Virginia (while we were en route) and they told us about the restaurant/bar.Kid friendly as well as boisterous.

    My high school was within eyeball distance of the Clairton Coke Works; the smoke polluted the air so badly that there was a small but real cancer cluster among the faculty in the 1980s. I moved to New England after college and have been back to Pleasant Hills less than two dozen times, most recently for funerals.

    As for the Steelers, I refuse to root for any team that employs the likes of Ben Roethlisberger. Terry Bradshaw was a great quarterback who managed to win games without breaking his fool head riding a motorcycle, or treating women so poorly he was accused of rape.

  791. ellid says:
    January 25, 2011 at 7:42 am  (Quote)

    @obsolete –

    We’re talking nc1 aka Naturalizedcitizen. “Goddamned liar” doesn’t begin to describe it.

  792. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 8:11 am  (Quote)

    ellid: My high school was within eyeball distance of the Clairton Coke Works; the smoke polluted the air so badly

    I know the smell. How could I not? We all worried about my dad sucking poisonous air into his lungs. He had severe lung damage that was discovered shortly before he died. I know now that he had no real chance to survive the major heart surgery he had because of that damage. My dad was born in West Virginia, dropped out of school, left an abusive home and lived in cars or with whatever relatives he could until he could enter the Air Force. He had dyslexia yet became a boilermaker and had many personal accomplishments. He didn’t have the option to move to New England. He did what a lot of men did to support a family: worked at the mill in the burning heat and blasting cold. My father-in-law worked in the coal mine to support his family. He also left an abusive home to join the Navy. Both of our dads went to work sick, worked double shifts and nights when necessary.

    I am not excusing Ben R. My family and many others in the surrounding Pittsburgh area have been fans for years. I loved Terry Bradshaw when I was in high school. When I say it is in the blood, I mean that many people who have lived in the area are lifelong fans. The Steelers had a winning record without Ben. He took heat for riding without a helmet. As for his other behavior, the Rooneys (big Obama supporters) decided to give him another chance when he didn’t deserve one.

  793. James M says:
    January 25, 2011 at 9:44 am  (Quote)

    nc1:

    1. In Obama’s case they forged just one paper – the image of that document is shown on FactCheck.

    2. On Brennan’s watch Obama passport records were modified.

    You aren’t willing to make your accusations of forgery under oath.

  794. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 25, 2011 at 10:37 am  (Quote)

    nc1: 1. In Obama’s case they forged just one paper – the image of that document is shown on FactCheck.2. On Brennan’s watch Obama passport records were modified. 3. Forging database records is not my idea: Few years ago in New Jersey there was a criminal ring selling COLB documents legally issued by the state DoH. An insider placed fake data in the database and valid birth certificates were issued by unsuspecting clerks.4. There should have been an order for passport records destruction. There is no such thing. It is hard to believe that government destroys passport records without any paper trail documenting the process. Stanley Ann was renewing her passport in 1967 – therefore she had one prior to 1965.

    Nice work of fiction you got going there. What’s your proof that the database was hacked? Why would one need to forge the COLB if the database was hacked? Since you say the printout comes from the database why would you have to forge the COLB if the printout would just come from the database? You need to make up your mind here.

    What proof do you have that Brennan modified Obama’s passport?

    Once again the FOIA request was for the application. They don’t keep passport applications for 20+ years especially if the person has a passport. Do you have any proof of your accusations?

  795. G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 10:45 am  (Quote)

    charo: I know the smell. How could I not? We all worried about my dad sucking poisonous air into his lungs. He had severe lung damage that was discovered shortly before he died. I know now that he had no real chance to survive the major heart surgery he had because of that damage. My dad was born in West Virginia, dropped out of school, left an abusive home and lived in cars or with whatever relatives he could until he could enter the Air Force. He had dyslexia yet became a boilermaker and had many personal accomplishments. He didn’t have the option to move to New England. He did what a lot of men did to support a family: worked at the mill in the burning heat and blasting cold. My father-in-law worked in the coal mine to support his family. He also left an abusive home to join the Navy. Both of our dads went to work sick, worked double shifts and nights when necessary.

    I am not excusing Ben R. My family and many others in the surrounding Pittsburgh area have been fans for years. I loved Terry Bradshaw when I was in high school. When I say it is in the blood, I mean that many people who have lived in the area are lifelong fans. The Steelers had a winning record without Ben. He took heat for riding without a helmet. As for his other behavior, the Rooneys (big Obama supporters) decided to give him another chance when he didn’t deserve one.

    I too am not excusing Ben R and I understand his behavior being the reason that some are against the Steelers. My support for them is more a regional thing, based on the teams that are left and is more a friendly casual rooting than anything obsessive.

    Oh – I understand the WV coal-mining background too. My MIL grew up there. Half of her brothers & sisters still live in WV or SC. Many in her family, including her twin-brother mined coal or still do (the younger generations now).

    On both sides, my family is a fairly even mix between blue collar and white collar, which is fairly typical for the region I live in. Cleveland has always been a blue-collar town but its growth is now in the tech, biotech, med and education fields although there still is a a fair amount of manufacturing strength – more than most people realize.

  796. Rickey says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:18 am  (Quote)

    One of the curious things about the Evans interview (if it really is Evans) is that he claims that he first met Neil Abercrombie when Abercrombie was driving a cab. Then I looked at Evans’ life story (in his own words) and checked out Abercrombie’s bio.

    Evans doesn’t say when he was born, but we can deduce that it was 1946 or so. He says that he moved to California when he was 14. Then after two years of transfers around the continental U.S., he was back in Long Beach at age 16. At 17 he got a job at KRLA, then for seven years he worked for Sonny & Cher – this job apparently began in 1964, which would correspond with him being born in 1946. From age 24-27 he was marketing a sports interview show, then from 27-29 he was at KABC. From 29-31 he worked for the National Star, and then from 31-34 he was with the New York Post. Then he says that in 1980 he got a job as DJ at KROQ, where he worked for the next ten years.

    Neil Abercrombie was born in 1938. He moved to Hawaii in 1959 to attend graduate school at the University of Hawaii. According to his official bio, “To support himself, Neil worked as a waiter at Chuck’s Steak House in Waikiki, a locker desk clerk at the Central YMCA, a custodian at Mother Rice Preschool, a construction apprentice program director, an elementary school teacher and a college lecturer.” No mention of driving cab.

    http://www.neilabercrombie.com/index.php/about/

    Evans left Hawaii when he was 14. That would have been about 1960. So when did he meet Abercrombie? Abercrombie certainly wasn’t driving a cab after he got his doctorate, which was in the mid-sixties. So the only time Evans could have ridden in a cab with Abercrombie was when Evans was 13 or 14 and Abercrombie was 21 or 22. And Evans says nothing about returning to Hawaii until the 1980s, during his on again, off again employment at KROQ.

    So, even if we can accept the idea that Abercrombie and Evans met when Evans was 13 or 14 – notwithstanding the fact that there is no evidence that Abercrombie ever drove a cab in Honolulu – how did that encounter between a 22-year-old and a 14-year-old lead to a friendship? For the next thirty years Evans was mostly in California and Abercrombie was in Hawaii.

    Incidentally, Cher doesn’t mention Evans in her autobiography, so I wonder how much of that is true.

  797. obsolete says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:42 am  (Quote)

    Good work, Rickey- I suspect Evans is just more birther BS. I see nc1 hasn’t posted in a few hours- must be on the phone reporting all those forgeries and hackings to the proper authorities like a good citizen with proof would.

  798. nc1 says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:45 am  (Quote)

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Nice work of fiction you got going there. What’s your proof that the database was hacked? Why would one need to forge the COLB if the database was hacked? Since you say the printout comes from the database why would you have to forge the COLB if the printout would just come from the database? You need to make up your mind here.What proof do you have that Brennan modified Obama’s passport?Once again the FOIA request was for the application. They don’t keep passport applications for 20+ years especially if the person has a passport. Do you have any proof of your accusations?

    I know you have a reading comprehension problem: We are talking about two different things: passport records and birth certificate. Passport records (database) were modified.

    Where is the order for destroying paper records – it does not exist.

    Dr. Conspiracy asked for actual passport records not applications – what hapened to his FOIA request? Government cannot find her records in two years time? If the official birthplace story were true, even if Obama’s mother had a passport in 1961, Barry’s name is not listed as a child born abroad. What is there to hide?

    Perhaps the official birthplace story is fake and Kenyan government officials were telling the truth about Obama being born there.

  799. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:52 am  (Quote)

    Please start using the other thread- I am not trying to control the blog but this thread is too long, and I know that I have been encountering problems- it may end up causing problems for the website

  800. NdH says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:55 am  (Quote)

    Rickey and obselete,

    I almost hate to spoil such well-stated displays of ignorance and complete lack of research.

    Did Abercrombie drive a cab in Hawaii? He sure did!
    How do I know? Because Abercrombie himself admitted it. It wasn’t just any old cab, it was a “Checkered Cab”.

  801. Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 25, 2011 at 11:57 am  (Quote)

    nc1: I know you have a reading comprehension problem: We are talking about two different things: passport records and birth certificate. Passport records (database) were modified. Where is the order for destroying paper records – it does not exist.Dr. Conspiracy asked for actual passport records not applications – what hapened to his FOIA request? Government cannot find her records in two years time? If the official birthplace story were true, even if Obama’s mother had a passport in 1961, Barry’s name is not listed as a child born abroad. What is there to hide? Perhaps the official birthplace story is fake and Kenyan government officials were telling the truth about Obama being born there.

    No you have a telling the truth problem. Your original statement was: “Are you serious? The COLB is printed using a database record. Hacking into a database is much easier than fixing the paper trail.” You suggested hacking the database for the COLB not the passport records. You claimed both the birth database and passport records database were modified. Again I ask you for proof of this. What happened to his FOIA? Usual government beauracracy. Do you know how long it takes for the government to normally fulfill a FOIA request?

    Do you even know for sure if Stanley Ann Dunham even had a passport in 1961? What do you have to hide? This whole there should be no privacy is a rather backwards unamerican way of thinking of things. We know you weren’t born an American so whatever oppressive regime you came from seems to carry over your thought process. There were no Kenyan government Officials. You had one singular ministry of lands who has no access to birth documents and wouldn’t reveal how he came about that information. Birthers haven’t interviewed him on the subject and asked particulars.

  802. JD Reed says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:03 pm  (Quote)

    Nc one — I keep reading comments from birthers that various people are covering their behinds in their comments so they won’t be prosecuted, including public officials and even journalists who cite what they consider evidence that Obama has no eligibility problems. Nc one suspects that Gov. Abercrombie is in this position. This is purely delusional; nobody is going to be prosecuted for being wrong, to assume for the sake of argument that birthers are right (which is highly unlikely.)
    Only in the parallel universe created by birthers would such prosecution take place. People who assert this don’t give much evidence that they’ve even sat in on a high school civics class, much less passed one.
    Repeat after me: Compared to your dream of seeing President Obama frog-marched out of the White House, you’d have better luck waiting for Godot — and he’s a fictional character created by a long-dead author.

  803. NdH says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:06 pm  (Quote)

    For Rickey and obsolete:

    Go to 3:47 in this video interview.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVLmEG_8b7A

  804. gorefan says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:12 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: Go to 3:47 in this video interview.

    It sounds like the cab was part of Governor Abercrombie’s campaign for the House. And it also sounds like Evans doesn’t really know Abercrombie but only saw him around town in the cab and remembers his campaign.

  805. misha says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:27 pm  (Quote)

    JD Reed: you’d have better luck waiting for Godot

    I am writing a sequel to Beckett’s Waiting For Godot.

    In the second act, Godot shows up, and there is a gasp from the audience.

  806. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:34 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: For Rickey and obsolete:Go to 3:47 in this video interview.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVLmEG_8b7A

    So people know he drove a cab during a campaign how exactly does that make them close friends? Evans doesn’t even post anything on his blog about being good friends with and knowing the governor

  807. Rickey says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm  (Quote)

    NdH: .Did Abercrombie drive a cab in Hawaii? He sure did!
    How do I know? Because Abercrombie himself admitted it. It wasn’t just any old cab, it was a “Checkered Cab”.

    Abercrombie may have owned a classic Checker Cab (not a “checkered cab”) while he was in the Hawaii House of Representatives during the seventies. It was a campaign vehicle, with his name and likeness on it. However, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported on December 6 that it wasn’t a real cab – the newspaper described it as “a car decorated like a New York yellow taxicab.” He wasn’t “driving a cab” is the sense that Evans implies. Anyone listening to that would infer that Abercrombie was working a cab driver.

    By Evans’ own account, he wasn’t in Hawaii during the seventies, so I would like him to clarify when this initial meeting with Abercrombie in a cab supposedly took place.

  808. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey:
    Abercrombie may have owned a classic Checker Cab (not a “checkered cab”) while he was in the Hawaii House of Representatives during the seventies. It was a campaign vehicle, with his name and likeness on it. However, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported on December 6 that it wasn’t a real cab – the newspaper described it as “a car decorated like a New York yellow taxicab.” He wasn’t “driving a cab” is the sense that Evans implies. Anyone listening to that would infer that Abercrombie was working a cab driver.
    By Evans’ own account, he wasn’t in Hawaii during the seventies, so I would like him to clarify when this initial meeting with Abercrombie in a cab supposedly took place.

    It may be helpful for you to listen to the clip. It was in 1986, according to Abercrombrie, that he drove the cab. When Evans mentioned the cab, it did sound like he drove it for a living for those who know nothing about him, but his driving the cab seemed to be pretty well-known for those who followed Abercrombrie. The clip shows that.

    Part 1 of the interview shows that Governor Abercrombrie greeted him with “Michael John Evans” like at least some kind of acquaintance. You can get to clip 1 from clip 2 on the side.

  809. ellid says:
    January 25, 2011 at 1:39 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    I know the smell.How could I not? We all worried about my dad sucking poisonous air into his lungs. He had severe lung damage that was discovered shortly before he died. I know now that he had no real chance to survive the major heart surgery he had because of that damage.My dad was born in West Virginia, dropped out of school, left an abusive home and lived in cars or with whatever relatives he could until he could enter the Air Force. He had dyslexia yet became a boilermaker and had many personal accomplishments. He didn’t have the option to move to New England. He did what a lot of men did to support a family:worked at the mill in the burning heat and blasting cold.My father-in-law worked in the coal mine to support his family. He also left an abusive home to join the Navy.Both of our dads went to work sick, worked double shifts and nights when necessary.
    I am not excusing Ben R.My family and many others in the surrounding Pittsburgh area have been fans for years.I loved Terry Bradshaw when I was in high school. When I say it is in the blood,I mean that many people who have lived in the area are lifelong fans.The Steelers had a winning record without Ben. He took heat for riding without a helmet.As for his other behavior, the Rooneys (big Obama supporters) decided to give him another chance when he didn’t deserve one.

    There are plenty of towns near Clairton with inexpensive housing that aren’t downwind of a steel plant – I thought of half a dozen in the last thirty seconds, several in better school districts like West Jefferson Hills or Elizabeth Forward. I also fail to see why your family’s choice of town has any bearing on my decision to move to Boston after college.

    I also fail to see what the Rooneys’ support of the President has to do with their decision to employ Ben Roethlisberger, any more than their past decision to employ Republican Lynn Swann.

  810. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 1:49 pm  (Quote)

    ellid: There are plenty of towns near Clairton with inexpensive housing that aren’t downwind of a steel plant – I thought of half a dozen in the last thirty seconds, several in better school districts like West Jefferson Hills or Elizabeth Forward. I also fail to see why your family’s choice of town has any bearing on my decision to move to Boston after college.

    My family did not live in Clariton. When we drove to Kennywood Park, we passed close to Clariton Works. We knew what my dad had to breathe. He smelled like the mill when he got home.

    You were being judgmental in a subtle way of those supporting the Steelers because of Ben R. It is probably better to drop the subject.

  811. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:00 pm  (Quote)

    Clairton

  812. Rickey says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:00 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    It may be helpful for you to listen to the clip.It was in 1986, according to Abercrombrie, that he drove the cab.When Evans mentioned the cab, it did sound like he drove it for a living for those who know nothing about him, but his driving the cab seemed to be pretty well-known for those who followed Abercrombrie.The clip shows that.
    Part 1 of the interview shows that Governor Abercrombrie greeted him with “Michael John Evans” like at least some kind of acquaintance.You can get to clip 1 from clip 2 on the side.

    That is plausible, because Evans indicates in his bio that he sometimes left KROQ for a few months at a time in the eighties and he did some radio work in Honolulu during that period.

    But here is what Evens said: “When I first met Neil, he was driving a cab in Honolulu.” That statement certainly gives the impression that Abercrombie was a cab driver when they met. But in fact Abercrombie was a member of the Honolulu Senate in 1986.

    If you were Evans, wouldn’t you say “When I first met Neil, he was a Hawaii State Senator”?

    I’m satisfied that they knew each other. “Friends,” however, seems a stretch.

    Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/hawaii-wont-release-obama-birth-info/

    The radio spot was done earlier on the same day.

    But the specific claim which Evans makes – that Hawaii does not have the original birth certificate – was “reported” by WND two days earlier.

    My theory is that Evans heard a version of the WND report, then called Abercrombie’s office on the 20th, and was told pretty much what Abercrombie had said in the interview which spawned WND’s fake story. He then went on the air (assuming it actually was Evans) on Friday morning (still the middle of the night in Honolulu) and claims that there is no birth certificate.

    Then this AP story appeared later on the 21st:

    Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said today.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president.”

    Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama’s birthplace for political reasons.

    But Abercrombie’s investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

    Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.

    So-called “birthers” claim Obama is ineligible to be president because they say there’s no proof he was born in the United States, with many of the skeptics questioning whether he was actually born in Kenya, his father’s home country.

    Hawaii’s health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama’s original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama’s birth at Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu.

    Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed today that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

    “The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”

    The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president’s birth date, city and name, along with his parents’ names and races.

    Nowhere does the story even imply that Obama’s birth certificate couldn’t be found.

  813. ellid says:
    January 25, 2011 at 3:56 pm  (Quote)

    charo:
    We knew what my dad had to breathe. He smelled like the mill when he got home.
    You were being judgmental in a subtle way of those supporting the Steelers because of Ben R.It is probably better to drop the subject.

    I said nothing of the sort. I said that *I* had left Pleasant Hills for New England and that *I* was not supporting the Steelers this year because of their quarterback.

    As for why I left Pleasant Hills, it was due to seven years of relentless bullying by fellow students and at least one faculty member at Thomas Jefferson. The fact that my father, who taught at Clairton High, dropped dead from the stress and the pollution was another reason to hate that area. A cold water flat in Homestead would have been better.

  814. FUTTHESHUCKUP says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:00 pm  (Quote)

    I hope the birther klan takes note of what Adams says in his sworn affidavit; it proves that what I have been telling them since he came out with his initial statements is true:

    1. The only knowledge he holds about President Obama not having a “long form” in Hawaii comes from what someone else told him, and that’s hearsay

    2. He never says who the other people are who told him this are. He again names no one in his sworn statement that can be asked to verify his claim

    3. He never looked at any birth records when he was employed by Hawaii.

  815. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 4:22 pm  (Quote)

    ellid: As for why I left Pleasant Hills, it was due to seven years of relentless bullying by fellow students and at least one faculty member at Thomas Jefferson. The fact that my father, who taught at Clairton High, dropped dead from the stress and the pollution was another reason to hate that area. A cold water flat in Homestead would have been better.

    I’m very sorry. Clairton is a tough environment.

  816. charo says:
    January 25, 2011 at 5:31 pm  (Quote)

    Again, I am very sorry for the terrible experiences you had in school as well as the loss of your father. You seem very intellectual and the type to use your experiences to help others. I wouldn’t blame you for breaking ties with the area. My enjoyment of Steeler football is a separate issue of the growing up years. That was a fun part for family and friends (my mom was a Dallas fan, just to be obnoxious I think.) Other parts were not so fun.

    My brother was bullied all through school. He has so many residual effects that it breaks my heart. Most (not all) of the teachers didn’t care. I didn’t have enough experience then to know if the “sink or swim” approach to handling school was widespread or not. I left home at 21 to teach in Florida, with much to learn. I am glad for the experience, but I could not have done my first year again at the age I am now. I adjusted and had more of a mix of good and bad experiences before leaving the field to embark on a new career. A former student:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Henyard

    I was never afraid of him in class when he was a sophomore. He left the area and when he was arrested the year I left teaching, it was a shock to all. That same year a kid smacked a teacher in the face, knocking off her glasses, and got the opportunity to learn at home (and failed anyway). He was put in my class. That was not the sole reason I left, but I felt myself aging too quickly.

  817. Daniel says:
    January 25, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Perhaps the official birthplace story is fake and Kenyan government officials were telling the truth about Obama being born there.

    Shouldawouldacoulda

  818. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    January 25, 2011 at 6:47 pm  (Quote)

    nc1: Dr. Conspiracy asked for actual passport records not applications – what happened to his FOIA request?

    There is an article here on the subject, but basically the Department of State replied to my request with the same material supplied to Christopher Strunk. I filed an appeal that included evidence that additional material likely exists and I have received acknowledgment of the appeal.

    I am traveling and have not received any mail for a couple of weeks. I think the Department of State delayed my request for political reasons, but not because of anything in the records that would support the birthers.

  819. Joey says:
    January 26, 2011 at 12:07 pm  (Quote)

    In some of the latest birther nonsense, Mario Apuzzo’s client Charles Kerchner is interviewed by worldnetdaily.com as stating that the US Supreme Court has violated its own rules by not requiring Justices Kagan and Sotomayor to recuse themselves from his Obama eligibility appeal, Kerchner v Obama.
    Under Kerchner’s theory, if Kagan and Sotomayor had recused themselves, then with only 7 justices ruling on Kerchner’s Petition for a Writ of Certioari, only THREE justices (Alito, Scalia and Thomas) would have been needed to approve the petition.
    The Supreme Court operates under its own tradition of “the Rule of Four” meaning that FOUR justices have to agree to grant a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari in order for an appeal to be heard before the full Supreme Court.

    I have never heard of “the rule of Three” that Charles Kerchner discusses., My understanding is that no matter how many Justices recuse themselves from cert conferences, four votes are needed.

  820. JoZeppy says:
    January 26, 2011 at 12:30 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: In some of the latest birther nonsense, Mario Apuzzo’s client Charles Kerchner is interviewed by worldnetdaily.com as stating that the US Supreme Court has violated its own rules by not requiring Justices Kagan and Sotomayor to recuse themselves from his Obama eligibility appeal, Kerchner v Obama.Under Kerchner’s theory, if Kagan and Sotomayor had recused themselves, then with only 7 justices ruling on Kerchner’s Petition for a Writ of Certioari, only THREE justices (Alito, Scalia and Thomas) would have been needed to approve the petition.The Supreme Court operates under its own tradition of “the Rule of Four” meaning that FOUR justices have to agree to grant a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari in order for an appeal to be heard before the full Supreme Court.I have never heard of “the rule of Three” that Charles Kerchner discusses., My understanding is that no matter how many Justices recuse themselves from cert conferences, four votes are needed.

    Doesn’t really matter one way or the other. The government waived it’s right to respond to the cert petition. The Court never asked the government to respond to the cert petition. All it takes is one justice to ask for a response to the cert petition, and the government would have been required to file a response. Translation: None of the Justice nor their clerks thought the petition had any merit.

  821. James M says:
    January 26, 2011 at 12:50 pm  (Quote)

    Speaker of the House Boehner introduced President Obama as President of the United States last night, before the full join Congress, the Cabinet, the Supreme Court, and the world.

    I think that ends any delusion that there exists any doubt as to President Obama’s legitimacy.

  822. Majority Will says:
    January 26, 2011 at 1:44 pm  (Quote)

    James M: Speaker of the House Boehner introduced President Obama as President of the United States last night, before the full join Congress, the Cabinet, the Supreme Court, and the world.I think that ends any delusion that there exists any doubt as to President Obama’s legitimacy.

    And amazingly, Joe Wilson kept quiet. 😉

  823. Joey says:
    January 26, 2011 at 2:28 pm  (Quote)

    JoZeppy: Doesn’t really matter one way or the other. The government waived it’s right to respond to the cert petition. The Court never asked the government to respond to the cert petition. All it takes is one justice to ask for a response to the cert petition, and the government would have been required to file a response. Translation: None of the Justice nor their clerks thought the petition had any merit.

    Excellent point, that I had forgotten about.

    But I’m still curious as to whether Charles Kerchner just fantasized “the rule of three” that he is promoting.

  824. Rickey says:
    January 26, 2011 at 3:13 pm  (Quote)

    Joey:
    Excellent point, that I had forgotten about.
    But I’m still curious as to whether Charles Kerchner just fantasized “the rule of three” that he is promoting.

    I remember researching that when the question first came up, and it appears to be a gray area. In other words, SCOTUS has no hard and fast rule about what happens in the case of recusals. What if six justices recused themselves from a case? I would imagine that three would be sufficient if that ever happened.

    However, as JoZeppy pointed out, there was nothing for Sotomayor and Kagan to recuse themselves from, even if they were so inclined. The petition was dead filed when not a single justice asked from a response from the government, so it wasn’t discussed during the conference.

    Birthers are incredibly naive. By my count there were roughly 500 petitions scheduled to be “conferenced” on the same day as the Kerchner case. Do the birthers really believe that the Justices sit down and discuss 500 cases in a day? Even if they worked for 12 hours without a break. that would give them just 1.44 minutes to allot to each case.

    Mario was told by Dwight Sullivan at CAAFlog that his petition was dead in the water as soon as it was scheduled for conference without a justice calling for a response from the government. Mario refused to believe it. but Dwight knows what he is talking about. If you ever want to know if a cert petition has a chance of being granted, check the SCOTUS docket and see if the respondent filed a response. If there was no response, and the case went to conference without the court asking for a response, the petition is going to be denied.

  825. gorefan says:
    January 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm  (Quote)

    Joey: But I’m still curious as to whether Charles Kerchner just fantasized “the rule of three” that he is promoting.

    Actually, there is a precedent for the three justice rule. There was a situtation where two justices were not available and the court said only three were necessary. But Ketchner is wrong about the justices breaking their own rules for reclusal rule. In act it is pretty much left up to the justices themselves.

    “While a member of the court will often consult with colleagues as to whether to recuse in a case, there is no formal procedure for court review of a justice in an individual case,” Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote. “This is because it has long been settled that each justice must decide such a question for himself.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/us/16bar.html?_r=1&scp=8&sq=recusal&st=cse

  826. Ballantine says:
    January 27, 2011 at 8:24 am  (Quote)

    Pretty pathetic that Kerchner keeps suggesting that is why his POS case was ignored. They just can’t accept that they lost. As if the court would even discuss Mario’s stupid standing arguments. Gee, they make up a constitutional right to tranquility and can’t understand the court not paying attention. Really sad.

  827. Joey says:
    January 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm  (Quote)

    Rickey: I remember researching that when the question first came up, and it appears to be a gray area. In other words, SCOTUS has no hard and fast rule about what happens in the case of recusals. What if six justices recused themselves from a case? I would imagine that three would be sufficient if that ever happened.However, as JoZeppy pointed out, there was nothing for Sotomayor and Kagan to recuse themselves from, even if they were so inclined. The petition was dead filed when not a single justice asked from a response from the government, so it wasn’t discussed during the conference. Birthers are incredibly naive. By my count there were roughly 500 petitions scheduled to be “conferenced” on the same day as the Kerchner case. Do the birthers really believe that the Justices sit down and discuss 500 cases in a day? Even if they worked for 12 hours without a break. that would give them just 1.44 minutes to allot to each case. Mario was told by Dwight Sullivan at CAAFlog that his petition was dead in the water as soon as it was scheduled for conference without a justice calling for a response from the government. Mario refused to believe it. but Dwight knows what he is talking about. If you ever want to know if a cert petition has a chance of being granted, check the SCOTUS docket and see if the respondent filed a response. If there was no response, and the case went to conference without the court asking for a response, the petition is going to be denied.

    I have learned so much about the entire US Judiciary from following the birther saga. I pay close attention to Dwight Sullivan and CAAFLOG for all things Lakin and SCOTUS.

  828. Keith says:
    January 27, 2011 at 10:09 pm  (Quote)

    charo: You can hear Neil Abercrombie himself on this, interviewed by Mike Evans at the link I gave above at 7:24:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsLleXvtM2o

    There is absolutely nothing about this on that link at 7:24. He’s talking about Oprah Winfrey and giving a shout out to Hana.

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